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Practical Lessons for Modern Parenting; Trump Photo Removed Then Reposted to Epstein Files Website; Some Lawmakers Say Bondi Should be Held in Contempt. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 22, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: On any given day, parenting can feel like you're at the top of your game or you can't get a win. While there may not be a secret sauce to getting it right, a few lessons can go a long way. According to our next guest, that includes sharing family meals, staying present in your kids' lives, telling them often that you love them, and nurturing their interests.

Joining us now are brothers Rahm and Dr. Zeke Emanuel. Rahm shared his parenting principles with the Wall Street Journal and is also a CNN political and global affairs commentator and former mayor of Chicago and former White House chief of staff under President Obama. Dr. Emanuel is a former Obama White House health policy adviser and renowned oncologist as well as author of the upcoming book, "Eat Your Ice Cream: Six Simple Rules for a Long and Healthy Life."

OK. So, I have been so excited to do this segment. Rahm, I've been talking to you for months about doing this and getting you together with your brothers. You have another very successful brother, Ari, who couldn't join us. But I just thought, oh, my gosh, what did your parents do? By any measure, you all have reached success in life, not just in the public sphere but also with your families.

And so, Rahm, I loved reading your op-ed for the Wall Street Journal and your first guiding principle centers around the table. Explain why you say meals matter so much.

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR AND FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, that was something both parents but my mother required of us. And it matters because you build a family there. You build a sense of unity, you know, and also the kids get confidence in that process. And I think meals matter because, as I say throughout the piece, that being present in a child's life is more important than this whole idea of, you know, quality time versus quantity time. And meals matter.

And my mother's other piece was we always had a round table. Nobody was ahead of the table. And it gave us confidence to speak up and defend. I think probably on the confidence part, my parents probably overshot the runway with the three of us. But that was important. And we've kept that tradition as a family. And I think that's very, very important. And in just that simple way, there are other simple things that can be done that don't make it complicated. And I do want to do a shout-out while we think about ourselves, but there's this great book called "Two-Parent Premium." And I think that's really important to understand the value that comes from a family structure and a child's development, not only educationally, but their moral character.

BROWN: Well, I think that's so important. And, you know --

DR. ZEKE EMANUEL, AUTHOR, "EAT YOUR ICE CREAM: SIX SIMPLE RULES FOR A LONG AND HEALTHY LIFE" AND FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE HEALTH POLICY ADVISER: Can I just add that --

BROWN: Yes, get in here. Jump in.

DR. EMANUEL: There are two pieces of science and data that support this. The first one is that, actually, if you have family meals, kids eat better. So, they eat less ultra-processed food, more fruits and vegetables, more nutritious food. That, actually, if you have family meals, kids eat better. So, they eat less ultra-processed food, more fruits and vegetables, more nutritious items.

[10:35:00]

The second is that they actually do better in school and life. So, they achieve better in school, less interaction with the criminal justice system, and less problems, psychological and other problems. So, eating together is 100 percent healthy, and healthy for the long haul of children.

So, I totally -- Rahm talks about how we were -- you know, my family, when I had children, we had 14 out of 21 meals together every week, breakfast and dinner. And it's really -- for the long haul, there's very little else that you -- I mean, there are other things, but it's one of the best investments you can do in your kids.

BROWN: And I love the little anecdote in your -- oh, go ahead. You guys should just go, and then I should just not even be part of this segment.

EMANUEL: I do want to say -- I don't want to get -- look, first of all, like every parent, this is hit and miss. You make your mistakes along the way. So, I don't want to get kind of a hazy picture here of the Emanuel family. Second is, I mentioned my father used to say -- he's never met -- as a pediatrician, never met a child that was spoiled because they were told they were loved too many times. I do want to say, with his three kids, we were called schmucks, and then a good hit on the back of the head. That never applied to us.

And then the second thing I used to say to my mother, you love Ezekiel more than you love me. She said, that's not true, I hate you all equally. And so, I don't want to get this glossy sense of our childhood. But -- and I would just say, as a father, and I'm very, very proud of my three kids, if I start talking, I'll get choked up. But I did want to throttle them like every other parent wants to throttle their own kids. But there are basic things to do that are, you know, meals together, telling your children you love them, being present in their lives, reading. You know, I joke, I never have finished "Good Night Moon," I fall and fall asleep. I've never gotten to the end of it. But being with your kids and those kinds of simple things can really add up to the moral and educational development of the children.

BROWN: I love that. And by the way, your sweet mom is watching.

DR. EMANUEL: One other thing I think is --

BROWN: Go ahead.

DR. EMANUEL: I just want to add, I think unsupervised playtime of children with no TV, no computers, no cell phones, where they're just playing and doing stuff and having to initiate and negotiate social relations. Rahm, Ari, and I, we had a room. We all slept together in one bedroom for 10 years. And then we had a separate room that had desks. Each of us had a desk as a young kid. And we played there all the time.

And then my mom would shoo us out of the house and, you guys go outside and do whatever you're going to do and be back, you know, 6:00 for dinner. And that was very, very important. First of all, it allowed Rahm, Ari, and I to bond. And second of all, it made us figure out what we were going to do. You know, negotiate among ourselves, negotiate with neighborhood kids.

BROWN: Go ahead.

EMANUEL: Yes, but I do want to, again, not glorifying how great the Emanuel House, we had a bunk bed for Zeke and I, and Ari had the crib. We used to jump in the crib to see how high the baby would bounce. So, not exactly, again, a perfect childhood. It was the survival of the fittest was more closer to identification.

DR. EMANUEL: That's why he's so strong.

EMANUEL: Yes.

BROWN: But I'm sure it toughened you up for real life, right? I mean, there's got to be -- there's go to be.

EMANUEL: No, but I --

BROWN: Yes, go ahead.

EMANUEL: Pam, what I want to say, when I wrote this, because we all get the same question when you kids say, I want to talk to you guys. There is no secret sauce. And I say this, you know, our father passed away five years ago. I went to see my mother yesterday. She's 93. You had -- the best example, if I could say, is one, is your role model of your parents. Two, kids may not listen, but they are watching you. And three, it's the simple things, meals, reading, being present in their lives in the sense of one-on-one time, telling them you love them but setting high expectations. Those are things that parents -- and we have to be acknowledgment.

Not every parent has kind of -- even though Zeke and I and others have very busy schedules, they have also economic pressure and doing things that you can -- every parent, regardless of background, can do to help in the education and socialization of their children. And that's important --

DR. EMANUEL: Can I pick up one thing that Rahm said?

EMANUEL: -- all of us struggle to find the right kind of combination to the lock as they develop.

BROWN: OK. Go ahead, Doctor.

DR. EMANUEL: So, he -- Rahm mentioned that kids watch. They do watch. They learn by bumping up against things and finding the limits. And one of the important things, I think, we watched of our parents and I think all of us have tried to emulate is, you know, life is more than just worrying about yourself. Life is about interacting with other people, taking care of other people, doing good things for other people. And we have a lot of lessons of that.

[10:40:00]

My mom would always bring people in, help them, support them. When we were on a bus and a woman came on, a pregnant woman or an old lady, any woman, we had to get up off the seat and offer it to them. It's those kinds of small things. We had to go to our friends and shovel their walkway in the winter in Chicago. We had to do things for other people. And I think that's one of those things where kids are very, very carefully watching their parents and seeing how much is it all about them and how much is it about helping the rest of the community and the world.

And I think that is another lesson that we tend to lose today and is so important for children. I was walking down the street with two big bags coming from the grocery store home and a kid who was 16 years old said, can I help you? And I was like, knocked off my feet. I was like, nobody's asked that question to me in 20 or 30 years. And it was a reminder that that kind of caring for others is important.

BROWN: Rahm?

EMANUEL: Yes. Our dad was a pediatrician in Chicago and he always said, and I -- we -- each of us went on rounds with him, he never rejected a child because his parent couldn't pay. And he still did house calls when it wasn't economic or fashionable. Our mother was the director of Congress on Racial Equality in Chicago and did the integration of housing and beaches. And we were brought on demonstrations with her, efforts to integrate Chicago's beaches and housing.

And so, the example that obviously the closeness of the family, but watching our parents and the values that they kind of used and applied in their professions also applied to how we grew up with those values and then hopefully as successful parents pass them on to our own kids, which I think hit and miss again. Each of our kids have also done stuff that their responsibility is to make the world better than they found it.

BROWN: I love that. So, inspirational. And also, just a great time of year to remind everyone around the holidays about the example parents set for their kids, that the holidays this time of year is really about giving back, right? I've been trying to instill that in my kids. I think they may still be a little young because they're really into getting their presents this Christmas. But -- go ahead.

EMANUEL: Never too young, Pam.

DR. EMANUEL: Again, one of the thing --

BROWN: OK.

EMANUEL: They're never too young.

BROWN: I got to go, but we're going to take this offline because there is so much more to talk about. Dr. Zeke Emanuel, Rahm Emanuel, thank you both. We'll be right back.

EMANUEL: Happy New Year, Pam.

BROWN: You too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00]

BROWN: Happening now. Growing outrage over the slow rollout and the heavy redactions of the first batch of the Epstein files. Yesterday, the Justice Department republished a photo taken from Epstein's home that featured an image of President Trump.

It was deleted Saturday and then reappeared yesterday with the department saying it temporarily removed the picture to make sure it didn't show any victims. The department says it erred on the side of, quote, "over reduction to protect victims of Epstein." Critics say there's more to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): The truth is they can't get their story right. They are clearly covering something up. They should release all the files now because right now they are breaking the law and they're not treating a mandated law by Congress. Right now, instead, they're flaunting the law and will of Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now in the Situation Room is crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz. So, what is DOJ saying about these accusations? We just heard there and from others in Congress that it's flouting the law. KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're saying they're not flouting the law. They're saying they have legal basis for all of the redactions that they're making. So, the law did specify that they could redact certain things, especially around victims.

And then on top of that, there is an act, the Crime Victims Protection Act, where they do have to be very cautious in making sure they talk to victims and get their permission before they're making things public, like from the Epstein files, because there had been criminal cases against both Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

So, what we're learning about what they're doing and how this is still a work in progress is coming essentially from a court filing and from a letter Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general, wrote to Congress. In both of those documents, the Justice Department explained that they are erring on the side of caution. They also do believe that people will accuse them of over-redaction and that some of it is because the task of going through these files has been so time-consuming, and there was such a time constraint, 30 days, to release the files, that they have just done the best they could so that they don't step in it in a way that harms victims and then have to pull back later. They're wanting to be cautious up front. Whether you trust that or not, totally different question.

BROWN: Let me pause you there really quick, because I want to pull up this picture of Trump, President Trump, that was posted and then it was taken down and then it was reposted. Can we put this up, guys? I just want to look at that. Well --

POLANTZ: Yes, and in this photograph of Trump, so there's a lot of different photos in there strewn on that bureau from the Epstein files, and what the Justice Department said was that the Southern District of New York, which would have a crime victims advocate within that office, they had reached out to, I guess, Maine Justice and said, we want to err on the side of caution, pull this down, check and make sure there's no victims, and then they put it back up.

But whether this is the right thing to do and whether this will be the ultimate level of transparency we get, that's going to be probably up for a court to decide.

[10:50:00]

The Justice Department is saying that they also not only redacted so many women, all women, in photos of Epstein. They also redacted internal deliberations, attorney-client work product, attorney-client communications, deliberative process communications, much more than what the law specified.

BROWN: All right. Katelyn Polantz, you have your work cut out for you as these files are set to be released on a rolling basis, as DOJ says.

Joining us now is CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. So, you just heard the conversation I had here with Katelyn. Some lawmakers are saying that Attorney General Pam Bondi should be held in contempt since the Justice Department, in their view, failed to comply with the law to release all of the Epstein files by Friday. Is that plausible, Elie?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's solely a function, Pam, of political will in Congress. Do they have the willpower? Do they have the desire and the ability to pursue that? There's really two levels of concern here, I think, with the production.

One is that it was just late. The law is unambiguous. The law says that DOJ shall, meaning must, produce all of the files by what was last Friday, December 19th. Instead, DOJ seems to have casually said, well, we got you some and we'll get you the rest in the coming weeks. There's a second level of concern, and Katelyn Polantz was just talking about this with, what exactly was redacted? Did they over- redact?

It doesn't help that the redactions themselves seem to be internally inconsistent. Sometimes the redactions are very precise. Other times you'll see an entire 110-page document redacted out. And so, I think there's questions about that that Congress needs to raise as well.

BROWN: Is there any chance that anyone else could get indicted as a result of all these release files?

HONIG: So, I think that's really one of the biggest remaining questions, Pam. It is theoretically possible, even though the conduct would have been 20 or more years ago, the statutes of limitations generally are not going to apply to sexual abuse of a minor. However, DOJ has been all over the map on this.

You remember back November 19th, a month and change ago, Pam Bondi put on social media that they were opening investigations when called upon by the president. Pam Bondi said, I'm assigning it to the Southern District of New York, and they will do their utmost as we always do. Well, three days ago, Todd Blanche in his letter transmitting these documents said, there is no further basis for any type of criminal investigation. So, which is it? Again, DOJ I think is sending decidedly mixed and at times contradictory signals to all of us.

BROWN: Yes, and some are pointing to a noticeable lack of references in the release documents to Donald Trump, who had a long relationship with Epstein and was seen in many previous releases of material. What's your view of that?

HONIG: Yes, if you enter the word Trump in the search bar that comes with this library, you'll get 62 hits, I think, at the last mention. Now, it doesn't help with public confidence when you see certain documents being pulled off and then put back on. So, the problem, though, with assessing all of this goes back to DOJ being late here. We don't know what the full set is because they have not complied with the law requiring full disclosure of all documents by 30 days.

And so, we're apparently going to get more documents in the next two weeks or so. Then we'll be able to assess it, but for now, we all have incomplete information. We're all sort of blind to whatever DOJ's doing. BROWN: All right. Eli Honig, great to see you as always.

HONIG: Thanks, Pam.

BROWN: Thanks for that.

HONIG: All right.

BROWN: Well, coming up after the break, quote, "corporate censorship." Major backlash after CBS shelved a report on Venezuelans deported by the Trump administration. Why some staffers are now threatening to quit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

BROWN: A critical win for the Pittsburgh Steelers over the Lions in Detroit is being overshadowed by an altercation between a Steelers player and a Detroit fan. The whole thing is now under League review. So, let's go live now to CNN Sports anchor Andy Scholes. What happened here, Andy?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Well, Pam, I'm not sure we've ever seen a player smack a fan mid-game and then kind of just continue like nothing ever happened, but that's what occurred yesterday with DK Metcalf. So, in the second quarter, Metcalf went over to this Lions fan who was front row behind the bench. He grabs the fan's shirt. He pulled him closer and then kind of swings at him.

Now, the Detroit Free Press spoke to the Lions fan. He told them he called Metcalf by his full name, DeKaylin Zecharius Metcalf, and that's why Metcalf went over and confronted them. Metcalf did not speak with the reporters after the game. A leak source tells CNN that they will be reviewing the incident.

Now, as for the game, they had a thrilling finish. Lions are down five in the closing seconds. They're going to get a touchdown here to Amon- Ra St. Brown to take the lead, but it's called back for offensive pass interference because Isaac TeSlaa threw an illegal pick.

Now, we go to the final play of the game. Goff to St. Brown again, and he's going to end up laddling it back to Goff, who dives into the end zone for a touchdown with no time on the clock. But again, they called offensive pass interference, this time on St. Brown, for pushing off on Jalen Ramsey. The game is over because they don't run another play after an offensive penalty. So, big win for the Steelers. Brutal loss for the Lions. For Detroit to make the playoffs out, they have to win their final two games and have the Packers lose their final two.

Elsewhere in the sports world, Georgetown has suspended head basketball coach Ed Cooley for one game for throwing a water bottle into the stands and hitting a child. So, Cooley was frustrated at the end of the Hoyas loss on Saturday to Xavier. He threw the water bottle he was holding as the game ended and it hit a mother and child sitting a few rows behind the bench. Now, after the game, Cooley apologized for his actions and to the family who he says he's known for years. Cooley in his statement also said, Pam, he takes full responsibility for what he did in his actions, and he's certainly going to learn from them.

BROWN: I mean, Andy, what's up with all this unruly behavior, right?

SCHOLES: Yes. You know.

BROWN: What could actually be done about it? What can the Leagues actually do?

SCHOLES: I mean, I. Nothing really the Leagues can do. It's -- people, you know -- it's just happen to lose their temper from time to time, Pam. And like you said, hopefully they'll, everybody will learn from it. And, you know, it's Christmas time. You know, everyone should just be jolly and joyful right now.

[11:00:00]