Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Now, Fed Agents and Protesters Face Off After Fatal ICE Shooting; Outrage After ICE Officer Kills U.S. Citizen in Minneapolis; Secretary Noem Says, Officer Followed Training and Fired in Self- Defense. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired January 08, 2026 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news, tempers flaring right now in Minneapolis, a city trying to come together and remember one of their own. Ahead, we'll hear from the police chief. And we're also going to look at the life of that woman, Renee Nicole Good, the mother of three, being remembered this morning as a poet and writer and wife and mom.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Also ahead, a critical vote in the U.S. Senate, poised to take up a new resolution, restricting military engagement in Venezuela without Congressional authorization. We'll speak with Senator Adam Schiff.

And a plan for Greenland, a key meeting between us and Danish authorities, what could happen and what's at stake. We'll speak with the former U.S. Ambassador to Denmark.

We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

We begin with the breaking news, new outrage this hour in Minneapolis. A 37-year-old woman, Renee Nicole Good, a U.S. citizen, is shot and killed by an immigration officer. This morning, heartbreaking information coming in from those who knew her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAN ROSE, RENEE GOOD'S FORMER NEIGHBOR: A neighbor who, you know, is not a terrorist, not an extremist. That was just a mom who loved her kids, loved her spouse,

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Anger now escalating on the streets of the protests and federal agent presence growing. You're going to hear what's happening on the ground right now. Listen to this.

CNN Senior National Correspondent Ryan Young is at the protests that are unfolding right now. What are you seeing, Ryan? RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. The protest is just ending right now. There's a call of action to go back into the neighborhoods and monitor ICE and Border Patrol agents in the neighborhoods and around schools. That's something they just announced in the last four minutes or so.

You see the crowd that's still behind me here that's lingering. One of the actions that they did today by blocking the gates here, they sort of stopped the process of agents arriving for some time. And then you saw all these agents sort of line up and come out. There's been at least three times where pepper balls were used to disperse this crowd. People were running, some people were detained.

Some of the folks who helped organize today's action here. How do you think today went in terms of getting your voice heard?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it went well. We had a huge crowd here, a huge crowd of Minnesotans saying that, you know what, get ice out of our town. We're the ones who keep each other safe. And, honestly, the longer that we stay here, the longer that these guys are here the less time that they're spending in the streets detaining our neighbors.

YOUNG: When you saw that video, what was your initial reaction after seeing what happened yesterday?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Profound sadness. It wasn't unexpected. You know, we were always saying in our organizing circles, it's only a matter of time before these goons kill someone, and they killed someone, and most of us have lost to our community.

YOUNG: You witnessed what happened here today, that at some point it did seem like some of the agents were almost antagonizing some of the protesters. I know you talked about some of them not having the training that you thought they would have to deal with protesters. Can you give our viewers that sort of reaction?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I mean, it's clear that the ICE agents are not experienced, are not trained and don't know what they're doing and they're escalating in the situation. You know, we come as union peacekeepers and marshals to keep our people safe because we know that we can't -- we have to do it ourselves.

[10:05:02]

And that was demonstrated today by their actions.

YOUNG: You actually asked the crowd to step back at one point because it was become -- the pushing match was becoming so violent. Were you worried that people in the crowd were antagonizing the agents? What was your thought process when you saw that happening?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I didn't necessarily -- I wouldn't -- I wasn't so fearful for the crowd. It was about the ICE agents, right? And I want to make sure that our people are safe. We're a nonviolent, peaceful protest. We want to keep our people safe and we can people safe, but some of us, we got to move back and have a conversation with them and build relationship on the spot.

YOUNG: My last question here to you is just you're now going into the community. What's the action now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The action now is continue to patrol in your neighborhood groups, continue to help families in need, follow your mutual aid requests. Let's get out there and keep our community and our neighbors safe.

YOUNG: And the main thing is to keep everything peaceful. Is that --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely, absolutely. We are all about nonviolent direct action. We want to keep our people safe. We want to keep everybody safe. We know -- we don't want anyone else to die here in Minnesota today.

YOUNG: Thank you. Thank you both.

Wolf, I want to walk you to this line real quick because something happened here just before we went live. A couple of the agents here actually dropped their pepper balls on the ground here. It just didn't seem like they had control of however they carry those. And so the crowd reacted to that and started antagonizing them even more.

If you look down this line here, now it looks like over 60 agents are out here blocking this federal facility, what they were trying to do is stop these agents from going out into the community. We now know they've been able to make it out here. This is the line where a lot of that aggression has been pushed toward these agents. Some of the agents have responded back. Right now, it's completely peaceful and a lot of the people who were here have left to go into those neighborhoods. We're actually seeing some of the agents here showing their faces.

But, once again, people are obviously upset.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're not chasing brown people with brown eyes.

YOUNG: So, you hear people screaming. How do you feel about what's going on here in Minnesota?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very sad, but I'll tell you what. I think that President Trump and ICE, I think this is -- President Trump is a Russian. I think he's a Russian asset and he's ripping our country apart. He's tearing us apart. And these people in Minnesota, people with brown skin and brown eyes, they're doing our work. They're hardworking people. They're making -- trying to make a living for their families. They're doing the work that nobody else will do.

YOUNG: Thank you. So, you hear some of the anger, Wolf, of some of the folks who are here. The people are saying, ICE, go home. This has been going on nonstop for the last two hours or so. And, look, they say they had planned to have more actions throughout the day here. Some are mad at Trump. Some are mad at ice. It's a combination here. But it's all about the loss of life that people watched on that video. Wolf? BROWN: Absolutely, a lot of emotions there. Just to be clear, there's no evidence that Trump is a Russian asset. But thank you so much, Ryan Young. I appreciate it.

BLITZER: And joining us now, the Minneapolis Police chief, Brian O'Hara. Chief, thank you so much for taking a few moments and discussing this critically important issue and what's going on in your community.

First of all, how do you respond to seeing this tension that's clearly evident at the protests not only in Minneapolis but in neighboring city, St. Paul?

CHIEF BRIAN O'HARA, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: Well, Wolf, this is something that clearly has been building for several weeks in our community. And I have very publicly been saying that I have been concerned both, number one, that a tragedy would occur, that either a federal law enforcement officer, or a civilian member of the community would get seriously hurt or killed. And also that such heightened tensions and so many emotions around these issues could lead to civil unrest, which is something that our city was the center of truly the worst and most destructive civil unrest in our country's history five years ago.

BROWN: Yes. You're talking about the George Floyd killing and protest that followed and, you know, all the violence around that. Chief, you are a 25-year veteran of law enforcement. From what you have seen in these videos, do you believe the use of deadly force was warranted?

O'HARA: Well, I think that is a question that ultimately must be answered through a thorough and complete investigation. And that's why I think we owe it not just to the deceased and her family, but also to the larger community to ensure that, number one, we maintained that scene yesterday so that it could be processed and that we can allow a full investigation to follow the evidence to all of its logical conclusion.

That being said, in law enforcement professionally, it is very concerning when we have officers that are placed into situations which may result in the use of deadly force.

[10:10:01]

And we must ensure that our officers are doing everything possible to avoid placing officers' lives in jeopardy unnecessarily, and trying to deescalate whenever possible.

BROWN: Help us better understand the training around that, because we've seen this video, right, the agent who fired the deadly shots appear to step in front of the moving vehicle. From a tactical point of view, what would the training be in a situation like that?

O'HARA: Well, clearly, from what we know, this is not a person that was the target of any pre-planned law enforcement investigation. And from a proportionality sense, we're approaching someone that at that point was only suspected of blocking the roadway. And so, of course, tactically, whenever an officer approaches a vehicle, there is extensive training that city police officers and troopers around the country go through to to try and approach in a safe manner that does not unnecessarily put a law enforcement officer at risk, because, clearly, for many years professional law enforcement has been trying to eliminate situations where we're placing officers at risk so that they may have to use force unnecessarily.

BROWN: Yes. What are the reasonable actions you're taught to take in a situation like that, if an officer believes that someone who is driving a vehicle, that which could be used as a weapon poses a threat?

O'HARA: So, someone who is unarmed that is in a vehicle that may be trying to get away from law enforcement, you want to do everything possible to minimize risk. Because the reality is, you know, firing a handgun at someone driving a car is not particularly effective at stopping the vehicle.

So, in situations when police are conducting traffic stops where we know, you know, the vehicle is the registered owner, because there's a license plate, we may know the identity of the person inside. We try and do everything possible to protect the officer's safety and the safety of the larger community and try and follow up with any investigative actions later on.

BLITZER: Chief O'Hara, has the Department of Homeland Security, the federal agents involved in all of this, shared any of their documentation or reports from the scene from yesterday?

O'HARA: No. There was -- the FBI was in charge of the scene yesterday, and we worked extensively with them to ensure that the evidence at the scene was preserved, that we provided any resources that was needed to ensure the integrity of that scene and to ensure that both the FBI and the Minnesota BCA had what they need to collect evidence and initiate this investigation.

BLITZER: Do you have a better understanding of the victim's activities before the shooting? We're talking about Renee Nicole Good, the woman who was shot and killed as she was in her vehicle trying to drive away. Do you know if the victim was, as Kristi Noem, the secretary of Homeland Security, said, quote, stalking and impeding their work all throughout the day?

O'HARA: So, I don't know anything specific as to this individual, but what I can tell you is, as long as this surge has been happening in Minnesota and in Minneapolis in particular, there have been people who have been following behind federal agents as they come in the city and then descending upon locations where federal law enforcement activity has been happening.

And that has caused a challenge for us because, number one, we want to ensure. That we are enabling people's rights, their First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble, and to observe record and object to law enforcement activity, whether it's activity being conducted by the Minneapolis Police or any other agency, we have an obligation to ensure people are able to do that. But we have to also try and ensure that people are doing so lawfully and peacefully.

BROWN: Immediately after yesterday's shooting, a man identified himself as a doctor and asked to see if Ms. Good was still alive and the agents refused. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I go check a pulse?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Back up now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a physician.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't care.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. We got EMS coming and I get it. Just give us a second. We have medics on the field. We have our own medics.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are they?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: One witness says it was at least another two to three minutes before Emergency Medical Services arrived on the scene, realizing that agents, you know, have to maintain control of a very volatile situation. Was it appropriate to turn down that man's offer to help medically?

[10:15:02]

O'HARA: Well, I am not aware of that specific incident, and I cannot speculate. But what I can tell you at least through our policy, our training here in Minneapolis, our number one priority is the preservation of life, our number one priority in everything that we do. And even if that is a person that the Minneapolis Police use deadly force against, the expectation is once the scene is safe, that our officers would immediately begin providing life-saving aid and doing everything that they can to ensure that would happen.

But, of course, there are also, you know, conflicting issues that law enforcement needs to deal with. We have to ensure that the scene is safe and that people are not coming onto the scene with the purpose of tampering evidence or providing further harm to any other people who are there.

So, it is a difficult situation, but, again, it should be reviewed in the context, like the rest of the investigation, objectively, and based on the facts and the information that law enforcement reasonably had available at the time,

BROWN: ICE agents are not required to wear body cams. Do you know if any body cam video exists to show the perspective from the agents? And there's been reporting that one of the agents was holding a cell phone to record what was happening at the time.

O'HARA: So, I don't have any information regarding body-worn camera video that was present. I can tell you this much. There were not any Minneapolis Police officers on the scene when the use of deadly force occurred. And I think it's also important for people to be aware, because I know there are a number of other videos out there, that we must be mindful that the complete story will be told in addition to the various, you know, video angles and things that, that may be available. We should be -- you know, out of respect for the deceased, we should be willing to go as far as possible to gather all of the evidence and follow the evidence to its logical conclusion.

BLITZER: As you know, Chief, the Trump administration was very quick. Almost immediately, they were labeling the agent's actions as, quote, self-defense, and Kristi Noem, the Homeland Security secretary, even called Ms. Good's actions behind the wheel, she said she was involved in an act of domestic terrorism, a direct quote, domestic terrorism. The FBI, of course, will investigate all of this along with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. Do you have full confidence that the upcoming investigation will be fair and unbiased?

O'HARA: I have no reason to think that the professional law enforcement officers of both the FBI and the Minnesota BCA would do anything other than collecting the facts and the evidence and allowing that to go to its logical conclusion.

BLITZER: Well, let's see how that unfolds.

All right, the Minneapolis Police chief, Brian O'Hara, good luck to you, good luck to all the folks in Minneapolis right now. Thanks very much for joining us this morning.

BROWN: And we're going to continue to follow the latest developments from Minnesota as outrage mounds after a woman was shot and killed by ICE.

BLITZER: And later, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff is standing by to join us live as the U.S. Senate looks to limit President Trump's power to use military force in Venezuela.

Stay with us. You're in The Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

BROWN: We are learning some new details following the deadly ICE- involved shooting in Minneapolis that killed 37-year-old Renee Nicole Good, a U.S. citizen who was shot and killed by a federal law enforcement agent. This morning, there are several questions about the shooting as federal officials and local officials take opposing positions about whether it was justified,

BLITZER: And joining us now to discuss what's going on, CNN Legal Analyst Elliot Williams, by the way, he's a former assistant director for legislative affairs over at ICE, knows the issue very well. He is a former federal prosecutor as well. Also joining us, Jason Armstrong, retired Ferguson, Missouri Police chief. He faced a very similar situation in his town after the 2014 police killing of Michael Brown. To both of you, thanks very much for joining us.

And, Jason, let me start with you. There are multiple angles showing this shooting. You've seen the video presumably in slow motion, regular motion several times. What's your take and what do you see in the video?

JASON ARMSTRONG, FORMER FERGUSON, MISSOURI POLICE CHIEF: What I see in the video is it looks like that there's some vehicles that leave that area prior to the incident happening and they drive past the vehicle, the individual that was shot and killed by the agent. They drive past the vehicle while it stopped in the roadway. So, you know, we're hearing reports that they were blocking the roadway. But I see vehicles leave beforehand that you see the one vehicle pull up and the two agents get out and approached the vehicle.

The agent that actually did the shooting comes from the other side. And one of the primary questions, you know, that I would be interested in knowing in this is if the driver saw that individual in front of the car because she was engaged with the agents that were at her window. And when the vehicle pulls off, these situations unfold very fast and quickly. And, you know, it was unfortunate that the agent was in front of the vehicle.

One of the things that we really emphasized in law enforcement is the tactics of de-escalation. And one of the things that we try to do is not put officers, agents in front of vehicles, especially vehicles that are in motion to try to avoid situations like this from happening.

BROWN: There's a lot of serious questions raised by this video and the different videos we've seen of the angles, no doubt. There's still a lot of nuance here though and facts that we just don't know. But listen to what Kristi Noem, Homeland Security secretary, said not long after the shooting.

[10:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: This appears as an attempt to kill or to cause bodily harm to agents, an act of domestic terrorism. It's very clear that this individual was harassing and impeding law enforcement operations. Our officer followed his training, did exactly what he's been taught to do in that situation, and took actions to defend himself and defend his fellow law enforcement officers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Not long after, the mayor came out and said that narrative from the federal officials, like Kristi Noem, was B.S. But how can you make such quick judgements either way, so soon after this happened?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You absolutely cannot, Pam. Have we not learned anything in the last decade of trying to unpack whether police-involved shootings or even individual ones between people. There are a host of complicated questions over the reasonableness of the fear of the person shooting in an action that certainly can't be unpacked from looking at a video.

I will say, setting aside sort of the nonsense that came from the secretary of Homeland Security today, or yesterday, the smartest comments I think came from Tom Homan, the border czar for the White House, who was known as, you know, somewhat of a hard liner on immigration and somebody I worked with for years at ICE. Tom was clear that we can't rush to judgment when looking at a video. Why? Because he's actually a law enforcement officer and did this for decades and years, and knows that it is incredibly risky on either side to look at a video and try to unpack it as if we really know what's going on.

BLITZER: Well, let me just follow up on that and get your thoughts because that the secretary of Homeland Security immediately described this woman, Renee Nicole Good, a 37-year-old mother of three who was driving along, as a domestic terrorist, that this was a domestic terrorist operation against ICE. What was your reaction to that?

WILLIAMS: That's a very strong language, for lack of a better way to put it, Wolf. In order to refer to someone as a domestic terrorist, she's necessarily saying that the actions were taken deliberately to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or to make a statement to use a violent act as a means of making a political statement. That's a pretty broad claim, you know, about an individual that you really don't know what statement she's made, what writing she has made. Has she attempted other acts before? It's a sweeping claim and it's entirely plausible, I'm not saying it's true, but entirely plausible based on the video that this individual may not have had a political motive in driving the vehicle.

And so, yes, even if the facts might say that she acted with some violent intent, there's no way you can look at this individual right now based on what's publicly available and make a claim of domestic terrorism.

BLITZER: I think she had just dropped off her six-year-old kid at school and was driving back home.

BROWN: Right. Her ex-husband said that.

BLITZER: Yes.

BROWN: And then we've also found out through our reporting that she was there three minutes before as well. I mean, there's just a lot -- there's a lot we don't know.

But my -- just to follow up on what Jason said, you know, he made the point that ICE officer came up and tried to open that door, right? And there is a scenario in which she's looking at the ICE officer not understanding that another ICE officer stepped in front of the vehicle. If an ICE officer puts themselves or a, you know, law enforcement agency puts himself in a position like that, staying in front of a moving vehicle, but then also has reasonable fear for their life, how do you look at that from a legal standpoint? WILLIAMS: You, with your legal education, Pam, have touched on the very nature of a factual dispute, and there is an open factual question as to all of these matters. Yes, an individual, a law enforcement officer, or any one of us might have put themselves in harm's way but also been, I guess, the recipient of a violent act. And I think it's for ultimately judges and juries to conclude at some point, you know, did this person invite this trouble, or, you know, was the aggressor -- or, pardon me, who was the aggressor or perpetrator here. And I just think from looking at a video, as we sit here, we are not equipped to really make definitive conclusions about any of those things.

BROWN: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Now, again, this all comes in the backdrop of tempers flaring in Minneapolis. It comes in the backdrop of a political climate around immigration that is very fraught both through law enforcement officers and the public in Minneapolis. But the idea of simply looking at the video and making definitive conclusions about it at this point, I just think it's nonsense.

BROWN: How would -- how does Kristi Noem's comments, you know, calling this domestic terrorism, you know, how does that impact the trust that this will be a fair and impartial federal investigation?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's hard to see a fair and impartial federal investigation because many of the federal authorities, if not all of them who've spoken out, have made clear at this point that the officer's actions were permissible, or at least, you know, that's their view. It's hard to see how -- so, for instance, in order for there to be a federal civil rights investigation into the matter, the Justice Department would need to make a choice to investigate this.

[10:30:03]

I have a really hard time seeing how they would.

BROWN: Let me get to Jason really quick as we watch this unfold. Jason, again --