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White House Border Czar: "All Operations Will Be Targeted"; FBI Searches Fulton County Elections Office; Tulsi Gabbard Seen at FBI Raid of Fulton County Election Office; Bipartisan Call for Shooting Investigation. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired January 29, 2026 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now to discuss is Texas Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro. He actually just met with Liam and his father yesterday when he visited that facility.

We're going to get to that in just a moment, Congressman, but first I just want to get your reaction to what we heard from Tom Homan this morning. Let's take a listen and we'll get your reaction on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HUMAN, BORDER CZAR: Target enforcement operations, the way we've always done it, I think got away a little bit, and we're going to make sure we do target enforcement operations. And look, I will say it again, you know, we are not surrendering our mission at all. We're just doing it smarter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What's your response?

REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D- TX), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Well, for an administration that never apologizes, never backs down, never admits to mistakes, I believe this is their way of saying that they realize that they have abused the American people, that this mass deportation machine has been vicious and brutal, and that they've committed crimes. And this is a result of the American people saying enough is enough and standing up against it.

BROWN: Homan also said that Minnesota's Democratic Attorney General Keith Ellison told him that county jails may notify ICE now of the release of criminal public safety risks to take them into ICE custody. So, basically, they'll know they could honor those detainers. What do you think about that? Does that surprise you at all? Are you supportive of that?

CASTRO: Yes. You know, I think almost all of us have said all along that if you have violent criminals, folks who have actually committed crimes, violent crimes, that they should be deported. But that's not what's been happening. They have been targeting people based on the color of their skin, because they have brown skin, because they're overheard speaking Spanish, you know, basically targeting people based on their race and ethnicity. And, you know, it's resulted in the deportation of U.S. citizens, in cruel treatment and in the murder of two U.S. citizens.

BROWN: And just to be clear, I mean, I know we've seen videos and so forth, but DHS disputes that it racially profiles. I want to turn to your visit to the Dilley Detention Center, because I understand that Liam's father told you his son has been depressed and is asking about his hat and Spider-Man backpack. Tell us more about what the family said.

CASTRO: You know, Jasmine Crockett and I had a chance to visit with he and his father for about 30 minutes, you know, in the courtroom they have there. And Liam didn't wake up the whole time. And, you know, his father said that he'd been sleeping a lot, that he's been very depressed, that he's asking for his mom and for his friends back home, and that he keeps asking about his backpack and his hat.

You know, that picture was so -- you know, everybody saw the picture and they -- ICE took away his backpack and his hat when he went into the facility. And so, you know, he's having a very tough time there. I'm very concerned about his health, about his well-being. I demanded his immediate release. And I think that's what the country demands is that he be released immediately.

They legally came to the United States of America. They followed the rules in coming to the United States of America. And they're being treated in an inhumane way.

BROWN: Was Liam's father aware that a federal judge has blocked the possible deportation of him and his son, at least for now?

CASTRO: You know, we didn't have a specific conversation about that. You know, it's -- so, these facilities, the information that the folks who were detained there are able to get, it's so spotty. You know, oftentimes it's easier for a criminal offense attorney, literally who's trying to visit with somebody who's being charged with serial murder, is easier to schedule that visit oftentimes than it is scheduling a visit with somebody who's in immigration detention center, even though that person is not accused of any crime.

You know, and so, I think, you know, he may know by now, but he just was just wanting the best for his son and very concerned for his son.

BROWN: And you pointed out that Liam's father came here through what was at the time, I believe under the Biden administration, a legal process to seek asylum. But as you know, Congressman, the Department of Homeland Security says Liam's father is a, quote, "illegal alien from Ecuador and that he fled on foot as agents approached him, abandoning his child." Did he say anything about either of those allegations to you?

CASTRO: No, he didn't. And I know they've said that Pamela, but remember, these are the same folks who, even though the whole country saw what they did to Alex Pretti, they refused to admit it and made it a completely different story. So, as far as I'm concerned, they have zero credibility.

[10:35:00]

BROWN: I want to play what a top ICE official recently said about the conditions where little Liam and his father and others are being held, this Dilley Detention Center. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCOS CHARLES, ACTING EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, ICE ENFORCEMENT AND REMOVAL OPERATIONS: I can tell you firsthand, they get top-notch care. They have medical care. The food is good. They have learning services. They have church services available. They have recreation. They have special caregivers to see to the needs of the children and the mothers or families that are there. It's better -- honestly, it's better than Social Services.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Does that track with what you observed there?

CASTRO: No, I can't see the screen. Who said that?

BROWN: That was the head of ICE, Todd Lyons. This was, I believe, at a press conference last week. I'm sorry, it was a top ICE official.

CASTRO: Sure. Yes, I don't think that person has actually spent real time in those facilities. You know, there's a difference between what is supposed to be available and what is set up there. For example, I went into the medical unit, and even though when I spoke to folks who were being detained, they talked about all these medical conditions, about not getting medicine and so forth. I go into the medical unit, and it's completely empty. I mean, literally, there's empty rooms.

And so, there's a difference between, you know, what something is set up for and what's actually being delivered to the people. They also complain about the food over and over, that the same thing is being served over and over, that people have terrible food allergies, and it doesn't matter to the facility.

And so, yes, they're set up to do certain things, but really, that population often is not taken seriously, and their needs are not taken seriously.

BROWN: And just to be precise, that was Marcus Charles, a top ICE official. Before you go, Congressman, the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, was spotted yesterday at the scene of an FBI search at an Elections Office in Fulton County, Georgia. You sit on the House Intelligence Committee. Is there any reason why the DNI would be present during a domestic law enforcement operation like this? What questions do you have?

CASTRO: Yes, it's extremely unusual that the DNI would be present for this kind of domestic operation, and it's something that the Intelligence Committee should investigate right away, should exercise its oversight power, and bring Tulsi Gabbard into the committee to explain exactly what happened.

You know, Donald Trump has been fixated with this idea that votes were stolen from him in 2020 in the state of Georgia, and he won't let that go. And now, he sent out the FBI and other agents in his government to try to prove something that he imagined happened six years ago.

BROWN: And we just want to note for our viewers that there had been an audit, a review done, a recount done at the request of the Trump administration or the Trump campaign at the time, and it upheld the fact that Joe Biden won that election. Congressman Joaquin Castro, thank you very much. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BROWN: Happening now, the FBI has seized all of the 2020 election ballots from Fulton County, Georgia. That's according to the county's commissioner. A source tells CNN it's part of the Justice Department's effort to look for alleged voter fraud. President Trump keeps pushing this baseless claim that the 2020 election was stolen.

And just this morning, he posted things like, quote, "Trump won big, crooked election" on social media. Georgia's 2020 election results were subjected to a statewide audit and a recount requested by the Trump campaign. Both verified former President Biden won the state.

Former U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Georgia, Michael Moore, joins us. How are you looking at this, Michael? What is the significance of the FBI doing this at an Elections Office, especially when you consider these local and state officials have repeatedly pushed back and investigated these claims of fraud?

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Yes. Well, I'm glad to be with you. I would tell you that I think this has nothing to do with trying to find out anything about the 2020 election. I think this is really just a big ruse by the administration both to divert attention away and to really sort of fabricate an excuse for what I see is a fear of more federal involvement. And maybe in some cases, I don't want to call it a federal takeover of the elections, but really sort of an effort by the federal government to control elections. That's been a goal of this administration for some time.

You remember that they have gone under the guise of a criminal investigation from 2020. Well, most of the statutes of limitations for federal crimes are five years, which means that now that we're six years out, there's really not much they could do unless they're going to allege that this has been some long ongoing conspiracy or that there's been some reason to stop the statute of limitations. They had already filed a civil lawsuit that's pending in the federal court asking that the ballots be turned over, the non -- and they wanted the non-public information, which is odd too, because that has nothing to do with the voting. That's getting people's social security numbers and things. And I think that's particularly troublesome. And here they've taken those ballots. So, you know, this to me is just something to divert attention away. So, we're not talking about, you know, these other failings, whether it's the Epstein case, whether it's the failed economy, those things, it's typical administration tactics.

BROWN: Well, given what you laid out, why do you think a judge signed off on a search warrant?

[10:45:00]

MOORE: You know, that's really a low bar, frankly, to get a search warrant. I mean, somebody from a law enforcement officer would go in and say, look, we think there may be some evidence of some wrongdoing. And one of the -- as I understand from the application of the warrant, one of the things that they have said is that a retention of records that they shouldn't have kept, which would be a fairly low -- almost like getting a traffic ticket type offense in the federal court. And they could say they're holding ballots.

The problem is -- and we don't know this because this happened obviously in camera, but we don't know if they told the judge, for instance, that the ballots had been sealed previously by a state court judge. We don't know if they had told them that we only filed a lawsuit against Fulton County and federal court in December. And so, this isn't even ripe for a decision by a judge yet. So, we just don't know these things.

What we do know is that there have been, I think, three audits which have shown there was no fraud. Remember that the Republican United States attorney said there was no fraud. The Republican attorney general of the United States said there was no fraud. The Republican governor of this state said there was no fraud. The Republican secretary of state said there was no fraud. So, basically all of Trump's people at the time said there was nothing that he did not win the state.

But now he's got a department of justice and an attorney general who he basically controls like a marionette. And he's able to tell them, look, I want you to go do my bidding. And they just run out and do it as if they've got no shame. And the very idea that this is somehow related to some civil rights claim, that would be probably the first time in this recent administration I've ever heard that they were worried about civil rights. I mean, if they're worried about civil rights, head on up to Minnesota. Yes.

BROWN: Let me just stay on track here in Georgia because you also had the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, there yesterday when this was being executed. How do you look at that?

MOORE: I think that tells you that it has nothing to do with a legitimate law enforcement function. That this is an effort basically to get inside the computer systems and otherwise to start looking at information that this administration wouldn't be entitled to so they can amass it and use it to their benefit to control or influence future elections. And I think this, again, they're just trying to lay the groundwork and the foundation to make a claim that somehow the federal government now needs to control state elections. And it's interesting the states that they're trying to do it in, and those are the ones that they think they ultimately can control in the upcoming '26 and '28 elections.

BROWN: Right. They're asking for voter rolls from several states right now too in these ongoing lawsuits. All right. Michael Moore, thank you so much.

MOORE: Great to be with you. Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you. We're going to speak to Republican Senator Jon Husted about his call for an investigation into the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti in Minnesota as the president's borders are, says immigration authorities may drawdown their operations in the state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

BROWN: Well, new this morning, President Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, says he has ordered federal immigration authorities to work on a quote, "drawdown plan for operations in Minnesota. And this comes after a month of chaos between officers and citizens, including the fatal shootings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti by federal agents. Here's more from Homan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOMAN: Target enforcement operations, we've always done it. I think got away a little bit. And we're going to make sure we do target enforcement operations. And look, I would say it again, you know, we are not surrendering our mission at all. We're just doing it smarter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now is Republican Senator Jon Husted of Ohio. He is among the growing list of lawmakers calling for a thorough and objective investigation into the Pretti shooting. Senator, thanks for coming on. First off, what is your response to what you just heard there from the border czar?

SEN. JON HUSTED (R-OH), HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR AND PENSIONS COMMITTEE: I think that represents a reset, which I think is a good thing. Targeted enforcement is what they were supposed to be there doing. It escalated from that. And it's time to reset and focus on what the mission is, which was to target violent criminals, people who are, you know, on the worst of the worst list. And I think that's where they should focus.

BROWN: He did talk about what he called progress over the last couple of days meeting with local officials, talking about working with the county jail on these detain requests from ICE or the jail would possibly turn over people who were here illegally with criminal backgrounds. But what is still not clear is whether state officials and local officials can join up forces with federal officials to do this objective, impartial investigation that you've been calling for. What would you like to see happen here?

HUSTED: Well, we need to make sure that the investigation is impartial, that that ultimately everyone has access to all the evidence that used to determine what happens going forward. I think that transparency of that process is what builds trust. And we do need to see more cooperation between state and local authorities. I know in Ohio, in almost every place, if there is a local arrest of somebody who has committed a crime and they're in this country illegally, they turn those individuals over to ICE.

In Minneapolis, in other places, that's not happening we need to see that happen so that we can basically -- we don't need these ICE enforcements because there is more cooperation between federal and local officials.

BROWN: Right. But as of now, as I just pointed out, they did, according to Tom Homan, work out an agreement where the county jail will work more with the ice officials on that front. But in terms of DHS, I mean, right now, the home agency of ice and CBP is the one who is investigating the Alex Pretti shooting, for example. I mean, how are Americans supposed to have confidence in any results of that investigation when you have the DHS secretary herself come out so soon before a full investigation claiming domestic terrorism?

HUSTED: Well, look, that's why it has to be transparent. The evidence that's used needs to be made available to a wide variety of law enforcement officials, federal officials, state officials, to make sure that no crime -- if a crime occurred, that we have the evidence to move forward with the prosecution. If it didn't, if people are exonerated on the basis of -- we need to have that information so we know on basis of which that happened. So, more transparency, it needs to involve a broad number of federal and state officials to make sure that it's done appropriately.

BROWN: And it sounds like you are supportive of what Tom Homan is saying, this sort of shift in tone, posture, lowering the temperature there in Minnesota. But leading up to this point, two U.S. citizens were killed by federal agents. Again, both of those are under investigation, but Americans have seen those videos. 59 percent of registered voters polled think that ICE is being too aggressive in its deportation efforts. And I wonder, are you still confident in the leadership of Kristi Noem of DHS right now?

[10:55:00]

HUSTED: Well, I think you saw the president decide that he needed to do a reset in Minnesota. That's why Tom Homan is there. I have great confidence that Tom Homan is going to be successful in making sure that ICE is focused on targeted enforcement for the worst of the worst, the people who've committed violence crimes in our country, people who are here illegally. That's what should have been happening all along. It escalated. It's time to de-escalate it, get it refocused. But the key there is the partnership that needs to occur between state and local law enforcement officials. When they find people who have committed crimes, who are in this country illegally, they need to turn them over to ICE. And if that happens, we will have solved much of the problem that has existed in Minneapolis.

BROWN: And to be clear, that was already happening on the state level. But I just want to follow up on my question to you. Are you confident in Kristi Noem's leadership of DHS?

HUSTED: Look, I'm going to let President Trump make that determination. But right now, we need to focus on getting a reset done in Minneapolis. Let's make sure that the investigation and the evidence is made -- done in a -- it's revealed in a very transparent way that involves trust in how that process occurs and restoring the trust of the American people in how ICE operates in our country.

BROWN: So, you don't want to answer that. You want to leave that to President Trump. Let me ask you something else. We saw what happened in Georgia with an FBI, FBI agents executing this warrant at an Elections Office, taking several boxes, hundreds of boxes from the 2020 election. What do you say to election officials and voters who are concerned that President Trump is laying the groundwork to delegitimize the upcoming midterm elections?

HUSTED: I mean, there's a lot of concern about that. And we just saw this morning, Senator, top Justice Department official Ed Martin posts this picture with election conspiracy theorist Sidney Powell. You're a former secretary of state for Ohio. What do you say?

HUSTED: Well, look, I'm a secretary of state -- former secretary of state in Ohio. I don't know Georgia's election law, but I can say this. In Ohio, we made it easy to vote and hard to cheat. Elections should be run at the state and local level. The federal government should have a limited role in those. And I am confident that we have a strong election system in this country. It doesn't mean that it's perfect.

It doesn't mean that states, for example, that send out unsolicited absentee ballots, that that is a good practice. That is not a good practice that leads to fraud. But for the most part, in places like Ohio, I can reassure you, it is easy to vote and hard to cheat there. And the state and local officials, by and large, do a very good job.

BROWN: And again, Georgia, for its part, did several audits, recounts, and upheld that Joe Biden won that 2020 election there. Senator Jon Husted, thank you very much for your time on the show. We appreciate it. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]