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New Guidelines For Cholesterol Treatment; Push to End Animal Testing; Rise of Christian Nationalism. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired March 20, 2026 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: As the war in Iran intensifies, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's messaging has reflected one thing with particular frequency. He has talked about how the Christian God is on his side, the troops' side, and America's side.

Hegseth's focus is a topic I explore in my upcoming documentary "THE WHOLE STORY: The Rise of Christian Nationalism" airing on CNN this Sunday.

Joining us now are two people who have studied Christian nationalism in America and why its influence is growing now under the second Trump administration, Robby Jones, president and founder of the Public Religion Research Institute, and Melissa Deckman, the CEO of the Institute that, I should note, is nonpartisan.

Robby is the author also of "Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy." That's coming out on September 8.

Thank you so much for being here with us.

First, I want to start to just listen back on some of the biblical language Hegseth has used in his press conferences since the start of this war. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Our capabilities are better. Our will is better. Our troops are better. The providence of our almighty God is there protecting those troops.

I will close with Scripture, drawing strength from Psalm 144. Blessed be the lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. May almighty God continue to bless our troops in this fight.

[11:35:08]

And again to the American people, please, pray for them every day on bended knee with your family, in your schools, in your churches, in the name of Jesus Christ.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Melissa, how unusual is this sort of rhetoric when it comes to an administration official explaining war objectives?

MELISSA DECKMAN, CEO, PUBLIC RELIGION RESEARCH INSTITUTE: I think it's very unusual, but I think it's more typical of Pete Hegseth, who has really bought his Christian nationalist views into his time as office as defense secretary.

Robby, did you want to add?

ROBERT P. JONES, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, PUBLIC RELIGION RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Well, I -- this is not atypical for Pete Hegseth.

And the thing at the end, it's not just sort of general religious language. It is the specific language about Jesus Christ, right? So, right there, it's very specific, Christian.

But let's not forget that it occurs in a whole context. He wrote a book called "American Crusade," right? He has crusader tattoos on his body, right, including the word "Deus vult," right, which means God wills it.

Now, this is the same thing that crusaders in the Middle Ages were shouting as they killed Muslims. It's the same thing that in modern times has been connected to white hate groups, including insurrection, so January 6, a terrorist in New Zealand who killed dozens of people in a mosque shouting "Deus vult."

So it is this idea that Western Christian civilization is over against Islam and every other religion in the world. And that's the world view that is behind these statements.

BROWN: Right.

And Pete Hegseth was asked about that. And he said: Look, I'm a proud Christian. This has nothing to do with white nationalism. It's about being a proud Christian.

But he has talked about and written extensively about this crusade against Islamism. And I think a lot of people might be watching all of this play out, hearing this rhetoric and wondering how that is playing into the Iran war right now and how that might be shaping how he leads our troops in this conflict.

What do you say to that, Robby?

JONES: Well, I think it's exceedingly dangerous.

And here's why, because whenever -- foreign policy, geopolitics, very complicated. It's about reading the things on the ground. This world view, though, reads everything through the lens of good versus evil. And God is on our side. Evil is on the other side. And so it runs right afoul of anything like limits on war, even

justifications for war, because, if God is on our side, there's almost nothing we cannot do and be justified for it. So it leads itself to war crimes, to genocide.

We know where this leads when this has taken hold. So I think that's why it's so dangerous to assume that God and the good are on our side. And it becomes a cosmic war between good and evil, not a conflict between political states.

BROWN: I want to go to the data that your research institute has collected. PRRI's recent data shows that three in 10 Americans identify as Christian nationalism -- nationalists, but that number increases looking at Republicans, where over half identify as Christian nationalist adherents.

What I found in my reporting is that there is this newfound alignment between the White House and this administration and those who want this to be a Christian country. I wonder what you say to that. What are the most striking political moves you have seen, Melissa, with this administration that aligns with those values?

DECKMAN: Absolutely.

I would also point out, as you noted in our analysis, we find that about a third of Americans have Christian nationalist views. But that also means about two-third of Americans reject those views. So I think that's important to bear in mind. And a majority, frankly, of Christians also do not hold those views.

But, in this administration, what you have with Donald Trump is a champion of a lot of those policies. So, from day one of the administration, he came in through executive orders and, for example, had a federal definition of what gender is, declaring to be male and female.

He decided to get rid and disband the Department of Education. So, in Donald Trump, you have someone who the Christian nationalist movement really is extremely supportive of because he's been willing to make changes in policy that they have been advocating for decades.

BROWN: And I have spent a lot of time, Robby, with people who call themselves Christian nationalists or believe in, this is a Christian nation, we need to get back to our Christian roots, but reject the label because of some of the baggage it carries.

But, to them, they view this as existential. It's existential for both sides, frankly, that I spoke to in this documentary. Help us explain why it feels that way in this moment, because the Christian nationalists I interviewed feel like society is getting so far away from the Christian values this country was founded on.

Why are they wrong?

JONES: Well, you also hear things like, we're under siege, right, that mentality. And so part of it is actually about demographic change in the country.

So -- and, again, it is about Western civilization. And when you hear that term, it really means European Christian civilization. And so, if you look at the demographics in the country, if we go back just to the 1990s, the country, demographically speaking, was about seven in 10 white and Christian.

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But that number today is 40 percent white and Christian. So part of what they're reading in the culture and the changing demographics is actually real. The country is changing. And so there's no longer this majority white Christian demographic in the country.

But I think that actually helps explain why this movement has moved from just some things that operate within the democratic realm, like voter mobilization, persuading others, to things that are more aggressive and even antidemocratic.

And it's because the numbers just quite aren't there, but that also feeds their sense of persecution, right, that this country that they saw themselves as the owners of -- and I think that's key, that this group has always seen America as a white Christian nation. And when it doesn't look like that anymore, that means something's gone deeply awry, and they're being called to a battle to take it back.

BROWN: All right, Robby Jones, Melissa Deckman, thank you both so much.

And a reminder that you can watch my documentary, barring breaking news, on "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER" Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific time on CNN or the next day on CNN's All Access streaming platform.

Thanks so much.

JONES: Thank you.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now: Animal rights advocates are touting the recent arrest of activists at a Wisconsin facility that breeds beagles used for research. The activists say they rescued the dogs at Ridglan Farms from abusive practices.

Ridglan Farms rejected those claims to other media outlets. CNN has reached out with a request for comment.

BROWN: Joining us now is the president and founder of the Beagle Freedom Project, Shannon Keith.

Now, we want to note, Shannon, you were not part of these arrests, but you follow animal testing very closely, particularly with beagles. What do you believe the broader impact of this operation will be and what happens next for these beagles?

SHANNON KEITH, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, BEAGLE FREEDOM PROJECT: Yes, the broader impact is that it educates the public about what is happening behind closed doors.

Most people don't know what goes on in this dirty animal testing industry. And so I'm glad that the public is seeing how these animals are treated. The broader impact is that now Ridglan is more put on blast than it was before.

So Ridglan has been the subject of so many violations. And, in fact, there was a deal struck with the district attorney so that Ridglan has to close on July 1 because of all of the violations that it has uncovered. And it has to basically get rid of all of the beagles and surrender its breeding license by July 1.

But, unfortunately, it is still having violations of the horrific treatment of the beagles. So, one group took matters into their own hands because it's still violating the law and treating these beagles horribly. And that's why they performed that open rescue.

And I'm glad that people can see what's happening, because this doesn't get out to the public, and these poor beagles, who are the number one breed used for animal testing, bear the brunt of this, and they get horribly treated.

BROWN: Yes.

BLITZER: Shannon, explain why beagles. Explain to our viewers why this breed is used for testing in particular.

KEITH: Yes, unfortunately -- and this is so horrific, Wolf -- when I did my very first beagle rescue from a laboratory, I was told by someone who worked in the laboratory that beagles are used for testing because they are so docile and forgiving.

And forgiving was the word that hurt me so much. And I said: "What do you mean forgiving?"

And she said: "Well, because we can go in, take them out of their cage, test on them, hurt them, do horrible things to them, and the next day we come back and they're wagging their tails and ready for us to just pick them up again, because they're just so sweet."

BROWN: Oh, that's heartbreaking.

I want to watch some footage from the organization of beagles believed to be walking on grass right here for the very first time. What are those moments like for someone like you, whose life is dedicated to this work?

KEITH: Those moments are so amazing. I have to say that they are life-changing. They are bittersweet.

When I first liberated the first two dogs back in December 2010, I had a vision. I had a vision that they would just run out of their crates and be so excited and happy. But that didn't happen. They were too scared to come out of their crates.

It took the first beagle, Bigsby, 20 minutes to take his first step out of that crate, because they had never seen the sunshine. They had never taken a step on grass. Most dogs and other animals in laboratories never get to go outside.

So they were too scared of what this world was. And when they finally did, they were like, whoa, what is this, eyes squinting, feet gingerly touching the grass like, what is this feeling? Finally, when they did, it was amazing, of course.

But people need to understand that these dogs and other animals are not treated well. And it's a bittersweet moment. And we know there's so many more we have to rescue. Right now, in Ridglan, there's still over 2,100 dogs we need to get out.

BROWN: All right, Shannon Keith, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming on and raising awareness about this.

And everyone should also know that International Puppy Day is coming up on Monday. You can learn more about how to adopt a survivor of animal testing at BFP.org/rescue.

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BLITZER: And, as many of you probably remember, Pamela recently adopted Lucy Blitz Brown, the hound mix, our SITUATION ROOM mascot. There you see a picture. You can follow her, Lucy Blitz Brown, and you can follow her adventures on Instagram @LucyBlitzBrown. We encourage you to adopt as well.

And we will be right back.

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BROWN: Well, new medical guidance says you might need to start treating your cholesterol a lot sooner than you think.

The American Heart Association and several other groups now say starting treatment as early as your 30s could drastically cut your lifetime risk of heart attack or stroke.

BLITZER: Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us now.

Sanjay, what should we take away from these new recommendations?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela and Wolf, this is a pretty big deal in the world of cardiology.

We talk a lot about heart disease. It's one of the biggest killers, as we know, in the United States of men and women alike. These new 123- page guidelines, I think, are one of the biggest shifts that we have seen with regard to the recommendation of statin drugs in a long time. I think, just broadly, the way to sort of think about this is that, in

the past, around age 40 is when people would really start measuring these levels and they would say, hey, look, what is the 10-year risk for someone having some sort of heart problem?

Based on that 10-year risk, they would either recommend or not recommend starting statins. Everything now has sort of been frame- shifted 10 years earlier. So, around 30 now, they're asking the same question, but instead of asking the question about 10-year risk, they're saying, what is your 30-year risk or what is your lifetime risk of having a heart problem?

And based on the answer to that question, they're either recommending or not recommending statins. So it's earlier that they're looking in life and over a longer portion of your life to make these determinations. That's what they're sort of trying to figure out here.

And let me give you some context for this because I think it's important. About 25 percent of adults have abnormal lipids, abnormal cholesterol and other lipids, OK? That's a number that we have known for a while. But 20 percent of adolescents, people between the ages of 10 and 19, they also have abnormal lipids.

So this is something that I think surprised a lot of people and I think is helping drive some of these recommendations as well. So in terms of what this means overall, it means getting tested first and foremost, and at a pretty young age. I mean, this may surprise you, between the ages of 9 and 11.

When you're 9, 11 years old, they say getting these lipids tested at least once during that time and then, starting at age 19, getting them tested again just as you're coming out of adolescence, and then every five years after that.

Around age 30, they will take all these numbers, including your kidney function and your liver function and your weight, look at risk factors like your family history and sort of make a determination whether or not you should actually be on statins. They use a calculator, like the one that you see there. You can look online. It's called the PREVENT Calculator. You can enter your own numbers.

And here's the bottom line, if you look at the headlines from this. People who have an LDL, that's a low density lipoprotein or bad cholesterol of 160 or higher, people who have a strong family history of premature heart disease, and, again, have a high 30-year risk based on that calculator, they are likely to be recommended statins, and, again, likely to be recommended.

This isn't absolute. This is a decision between physician and patient based on all sorts of different risk factors. One thing I want to point out, if you look at the numbers, there's about 60 to 70 million people who are between the ages of 30 and 40 in this country.

Even if a small percentage of them fit these criteria I just mentioned about, you're talking about millions of people who will now be recommended statin drugs who will likely take these medications for decades, if not the rest of their life.

And I think this is one of the biggest concerns overall about these new guidelines. How many more people are going to be medicated? How many more cardiac events will be prevented as a result? Those are the big questions, I think.

There are side effects to these medications worth talking about, muscle pain sort of the top of the list. About 5 to 7 percent of people develop muscle pain and respond to statins, sometimes significant enough where they simply can't take the medications, muscle weakness as well.

Liver damage. The statins are metabolized in your liver. They will check your blood test before you start taking the statins and then, a few months into the statins, they will probably check your liver functions again.

And also increased blood sugar. These statins can make you insulin resistant, so your insulin doesn't work as well. And that can raise blood pressure. For a certain percentage of people, it can be significant enough to tip them over into diabetes.

So these are things that need to be monitored. But, again, this idea of how many more millions people will be taking these medications for decades I think is probably overall one of the biggest concerns -- Pamela, Wolf.

BROWN: All right, that was a lot of important information, and I think a lot of people will find it surprising.

BLITZER: Important information, indeed, yes.

BROWN: All right, Sanjay Gupta, as always, thank you so much.

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BLITZER: And thanks to all of our viewers for joining us this morning. You can always keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN. You can also follow our show mascot on Instagram, once again, Lucy Blitz Brown, @LucyBlitzBrown, Blitz Brown.

BROWN: The hound -- Lucy Blitz Brown, the hound mix.

We will see you back here tomorrow morning and every weekday morning at 10:00 Eastern.

"INSIDE POLITICS" with our friend and colleague Dana Bash starts right now.