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Hegseth: Iran Blockade to Continue "For as Long as it Takes"; Iran to Meet with Pakistani Army Chief; HHS Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on Capitol Hill; Judge: Camp Mystic to Remain Untouched. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 16, 2026 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're following the breaking news on the U.S. blockade against Iran. This morning the U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is warning Iranian leaders that economic pressure against the regime will continue unless they, quote, "choose wisely. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: In the meantime, and for as long as it takes, we will maintain this blockade, successful blockade. But if Iran chooses poorly, then they will have a blockade and bombs dropping on infrastructure, power, and energy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Here with us now to discuss CNN's senior political and global affairs commentator Rahm Emanuel. He's also the former U.S. ambassador to Japan under President Biden. Rahm, is this a smart move by the U.S., and does it potentially harm the U.S. relationship with other allies, especially those in Asia, and you were the ambassador in Japan, that so heavily rely on Iranian oil and natural gas?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF AND FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN: Well, it does hurt, but what hurt was not being consulted before even the military efforts started, and the United States --

BLITZER: That's the allies we're consulting, is that what you're saying?

EMANUEL: Nobody, not in Europe or Asia or anywhere else in the world, and so not consulting our allies, which would have actually strengthened the U.S. position, is now after the fact, the President's trying to make up for lost ground and lost time.

Look, as a part of a strategy, all boats out, or no boats in. That's a piece of it, that's a short term, so that Iran doesn't get control of the Strait of Hormuz, it stays in international water. The second piece of the negotiation is a medium term, is the UN, the International Maritime Association, should set up a fee that goes to Iran, goes to Kuwait, goes to Bahrain, goes to Oman, for all the countries affected by this war, not controlled by Iran, and not only for Iran, but everybody.

And then third, use the Abraham Accords that we're a party to. Use it to make -- as a vehicle of financing, to build a pipeline for our allies around the Strait of Hormuz, so Iran can never again hold the United States or all our allies hostage, or the world economy.

Now, when this started, we were trying to degrade Iran's nuclear capacity, and in the war, Iran discovered they have a nuclear option, it's called the Strait of Hormuz, which should have been thought of before the president decided to buy.

BLITZER: The current ceasefire between the U.S. and Iran, as you know, is set to expire next week. Today, the military chief for Pakistan, which of course is playing a big role in trying to mediate some sort of peace talks, is expected to meet with Iranian officials again to discuss messages exchanged between Iran and the U.S. These are private, very serious messages. The White House says it's optimistic they can get a deal done. Is the White House right?

EMANUEL: I think it's my likelihood is -- or my sense of this, is it's probably going to be extended because you're making progress. When you look at Chinese officials in the UAE, and you look at the fact that Pakistan is now in Iran, you look at, in fact, even a ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon, which I'm sure the United States influenced, etc. All the atmospherics around the negotiations are moving in a direction.

But remember, there are three things here. Nuclear capacity, the ability to deliver those weapons, which is the missiles, and then the proxies known as Hezbollah, et cetera. The whole proxy has been degraded. The missiles, we're not sure about. And the nuclear capacity, both the capacity and the enriched uranium, is underground and been damaged.

[10:35:00]

So, my guess is progress is being made. The ceasefire will probably be extended, but they won't reach a conclusion within this window of time. That's a guess.

BLITZER: The clock is clearly ticking right now.

EMANUEL: There are two clocks here.

BLITZER: Yes.

EMANUEL: The president's visit to Xi, which is pressuring the negotiations, yes. The second clock is the Iranian economy now is going to suffer, given they have no export capacity of their oil, which was their lifeline.

BLITZER: It's going to suffer big time.

EMANUEL: Right.

BLITZER: Top Republicans, as you know, including the vice president, J.D. Vance, and the house speaker, Mike Johnson, they're engaged in a feud right now, public feud, with the Pope over theology to support the U.S. and Israeli war in Iran. Now, listen to what the Pope said earlier today during his trip to Africa. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV: Woe to those who manipulate religion in the very name of God for their own military, economic, or political gain, dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth. The world is being ravaged by a handful of tyrants. It is held together by a multitude of supportive brothers and sisters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, what do you think, because you're from Chicago, Pope Leo was born in Chicago, the first American born Pope, what do you make of all of this?

EMANUEL: Well, let's step back, forget the politics for one second. I go around the country. There is a moral hunger, a clarity of voice for a sense of community, connection. There's an alienation among young men, among people in our society. The reason the Pope's popular, not just with Catholics, but with everybody, because he is an anchor in a turmoil of moral emptiness and vacuousness. And he should be embraced, whether you agree with his opinion, I happen to agree with it, on the war, and I'm making war.

That said, in a time in which we have our youth searching for purpose, for meaning, for connection, to be attacking the Pope, who is that anchor and that voice in a world devoid of it, given what Putin is doing, I think this, to me, is the most important thing. And I think it's ridiculous that you have officials attacking the moral clarity of the voice, separate.

There's a story out today where young men in America are coming back to the church, telling you, in their actions, in their feet, they want a moral, ethical voice to create, and a community to create things and establish something that's missing in their lives.

You go around the country, there's an emptiness in our young people's eyes. Something you, Wolf, I, as parents, would never accept in our own kids, is happening among our fellow citizens. So, I hope the Pope continues to speak out, and given he's from Chicago, I have all the confidence he will.

BLITZER: Because you love your fellow Chicagoan.

EMANUEL: Well, he is a Sox fan, but his mother's a Cubs fan, and that's more important than anything.

BLITZER: Obviously.

EMANUEL: Moms know something.

BLITZER: Very important.

EMANUEL: Don't tell my mother that I said that.

BLITZER: But you never met him in the old days?

EMANUEL: I know, I'm in Chicago. I --

BLITZER: You met him when you were a lawyer.

EMANUEL: Just recently, in the end of March, also, I went to see the archbishop of New York, who's also from Chicago. So, I say that, but the more important, all jokes aside, our country is hungering for moral clarity and a moral connection, and the Pope, to all of us, speaks to something, whether you're Catholic or not, and I hope he continues to be that voice in a place and a time that is desperate, in a desert of any kind of moral connection.

BLITZER: Very quickly, before I let you go, what do you make of all these Democrats, right now in the Senate, voting against continuing U.S. military aid to Israel?

EMANUEL: To me, what should be done here is end all taxpayer support for military weapons purchased by Israel. All of it. Israel is a wealthy country. The ideas of supporting it in the past made sense. Today, no more U.S. taxpayer support. You buy it like anybody else, the same restrictions like anybody else. You're an ally, you don't get preferential treatment anymore.

BLITZER: It's a pretty stark statement, coming from someone who's been such a strong supporter of Israel.

EMANUEL: That's right. President Obama had the largest package ever of support. They also refunded the Iron Dome under President Obama. It was right in the room when we made that decision. That said, Israel's at a different place than where it was in 1968, where it was in 1958. All U.S. taxpayer support ends.

Don't pick -- the United States Senate should not be picking which weapon. They want to buy something, they buy it like every other ally, they don't get preferential treatment, and more importantly, they don't get any more taxpayer support to do it.

BLITZER: Interesting. All right. Rahm, thanks very much for coming in.

EMANUEL: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very, very much. Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Well, we want to turn to some breaking news. Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is testifying before lawmakers for the first time this year, and today's hearing kicks off a series of appearances Kennedy is set to have on Capitol Hill over this next week.

So, I want to bring in our medical correspondent, Meg Tirrell, because there's been some spicy moments so far during this hearing, I think safe to say. MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and probably unsurprising coming from Democrats. They are really focusing on what RFK Jr. has done around the measles outbreaks that we've seen this year in South Carolina and last year in Texas, really trying to put the pressure on him.

[10:40:00]

As we know that the White House has been trying to pivot RFK Jr. to topics that are more politically favorable to them, things like nutrition and drug pricing. But there was an exchange just now with Representative Sanchez on the messaging around vaccines that's coming out of the administration. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LINDA SANCHEZ (D-CA): Do you -- did President Trump approve your decision to end the CDC's pro-vaccine public messaging campaign? Was that a decision that was made by Trump? Did he approve that?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: We've done better at preventing measles in any country in the world.

SANCHEZ: Did President Trump approve your decision to end the CDC's pro-vaccine public messaging campaign?

KENNEDY JR.: We've done better at preventing measles --

SANCHEZ: That's not answering my question.

KENNEDY JR.: -- and ending --

SANCHEZ: That is not answering my question. And I think you don't want to answer the question because I think you know that you are making --

KENNEDY JR.: I want to respond here --

SANCHEZ: -- terrible decisions that impact very, very real lives, especially the lives of children. Now, one thing that I find incredible is that you suspended this pro-vaccine messaging campaign, but 'somehow, you're spending taxpayer dollars to drink milk shirtless in a hot tub with Kid Rock. And somehow you think that's a better public health message --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your time has expired by a minute.

SANCHEZ: -- than informing the public about the importance of vaccines?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gentlelady's time has expired.

SANCHEZ: Really? Really? I yield back.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TIRRELL: Now, we should note, of course, he's comparing the U.S. measles outbreaks to the numbers in other countries. But for the U.S., this is the worst year we've had for measles cases since before we eliminated this disease in the year 2000. So, we're not doing great right now in terms of measles. And guys, of course, this is just the first of seven RFK Jr. hearings we're going to be having over the next week alone.

BROWN: I know you'll be tracking it all. All right. Meg Tirrell, thanks so much.

TIRRELL: Thank you.

BLITZER: And coming up here in the Situation Room, after days of gut- wrenching emotional testimony, a judge says that Camp Mystic's campsite, wrecked by deadly flooding, must remain untouched. We'll speak to a family of one of the campers who lost her life. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We're following new developments on Camp Mystic. That's the Texas girls camp where 27 campers and counselors died in catastrophic flooding last summer. A district judge announced yesterday that camp leaders must keep many of the damaged buildings, including cabins, untouched as a wrongful death lawsuit moves forward. The case was brought by the family of eight-year-old camper Cile Steward, whose body is still missing.

[10:45:00]

And the judge's decision came after three days of emotional testimony, including from members of the Eastland family, which has owned and operated Camp Mystic for decades. The patriarch, Dick Eastland, died as he tried to rescue girls in the floods.

Joining us now are Jennie and Douglas Eastland. Getten, the parents of nine-year-old Ellen Getten on your screen right now. She is among the Heaven's 27. Also joining us, the Getten's attorney, Kyle Findley, is here to discuss. They are suing Camp Mystic and its owners. And I should note, I attended Camp Mystic as a girl and stayed in the bubble inn where Ellen and many of the youngest victims were during that flooding.

Thank you all for coming on. First of all, Jennie and Doug, how are you doing after these days of wrenching testimony?

JENNIE GETTEN, MOTHER OF CAMP MYSTIC FLOOD VICTIM ELLEN GETTEN: We're heartbroken. We're disgusted. We thought some of these facts might be true based on what we found throughout our lawsuit. But to hear the leadership under oath admit that they abandoned and neglected all of these girls was heartbreaking and awful to hear.

BROWN: What stood out to you the most from the hearing, Doug? What did you learn that was new, if anything? DOUGLAS GETTEN, FATHER OF CAMP MYSTIC FLOOD VICTIM ELLEN GETTEN: Leadership's complete or admission of having a lack of a evacuation plan, which the judge noted and which we had suspected and they had denied, and that our daughter was left in her cabin bubble inn to drown.

J. GETTEN: Also, that there were several able-bodied people, including nurses and first responders, available to go cabin to cabin to evacuate these girls. And that didn't happen.

BROWN: Kyle, to bring you into the conversation, we've heard from members of the Eastland family acknowledging their testimony that they did not warn the campers and counselors of rising floodwaters or dire weather warnings before the cabins were overwhelmed on July 4th. But when camp director Edward Eastland was asked if he was negligent, he said no. How do you view that from a legal perspective?

KYLE FINDLEY, ATTORNEY FOR THE GETTEN FAMILY: I mean, I think it's kind of the position they've taken since the beginning of this case. The facts bear a different story than what they tell. I mean, as you've heard and throughout the testimony, we've heard that girls were abandoned, girls were neglected. We've heard that walkie-talkies and loudspeakers were available to be used and they weren't utilized. And there was even the admission that had they been utilized this wouldn't have happened and the girls would have been saved. We've also heard that putting girls into the car, even though they were told not to, that was ultimately swept away, that that also led to their deaths.

And so, there's a lot of reckless decisions that happened throughout the course of the days leading up to it, as well as after admitting that they received the flood warning at 114 on their phones, discussing getting to higher ground for a flood warning for that area, and then not doing anything for over two hours.

BROWN: Well, Edward Eastland, for his part, said that he didn't see the warning, right? That the phone didn't go off in the way that it would for an AMBER alert. What did you make of that? That he was sleeping in the room? Yes.

FINDLEY: You know, we -- I mean, it was disappointing to hear that you have a weather event and you have a flood watch come out the day before. And Texas Department of Management moving into that county in the days leading up to this on July 2nd and July 3rd. And no one is actually watching the weather at this camp.

Yes, he said he was asleep when it came out, but he was woken up at 1:45 by his father to move equipment. And at that point in time, when you're having the recognition that this is going to be a flood and there is going to be a problem, they have an obligation to check the weather. And there was also comments from Britt Eastland that his dad was obsessed with the weather.

And when you are taking care of children and that many children out of camp, you need to be watching the weather. You can't just go to sleep when there is flood watches and flood warnings on the horizon. And I'd also like to point out the flood watch that came out the day before on July 3rd in the afternoon. It said in the National Weather Service, pay attention to what is upcoming. There will be further updates related to this flood. And that was ignored as well.

And so, yes, it's beyond disappointing that he said that he didn't see it because he was sleeping, but he was awake within plenty of time, over an hour and a half to get moving.

[10:50:00]

BROWN: Jennie and Doug, you're urging Texas state regulators to reconsider renewing Camp Mystic's license to operate, writing in a heart-wrenching letter, quote, "Not only did Camp Mystic kill one of our amazing daughters, but they also inflicted great suffering to our big sister who blames herself for not saving Ellen," end quote. Can you talk about how your older daughter Ellen's 11-year-old big sister Gwen, seen right here, feels about her little sister's passing? How she's doing?

J. GETTEN: Well, she's devastated. She lost her best friend. She asked if she could save her when she walked by the cabin and she could grab her. She was told no. She also was terrified when she was in rec hall and kept asking leadership where her sister was. They wouldn't tell her. The leadership wouldn't even hug her. She's trying every day, you know, to live for Ellen just like we are.

But she's struggling. Like we -- you know, she has PTSD just like we do and what she went through is horrific. But in no way was it her fault that Ellen died. That was the leadership's fault.

BROWN: Absolutely not her fault. Jennie and Douglas Getten and Kyle Finley, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming on.

FINDLEY: Thank you very much.

J. GETTEN: Thank you.

D. GETTEN: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you. And also, we should know we're going to speak with the attorney for Camp Mystic, Mikal Watts, on the other side of a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Welcome back. We have been covering new developments in the case against Camp Mystic, the Texas girls camp where 27 campers and counselors, along with owner Dick Eastland, died in catastrophic flooding last summer. And we just spoke, as you heard, with Jennie and Douglas Getten, the parents of nine-year-old Ellen Getten, who is among the 27.

Joining us now is the attorney for Camp Mystic, Mikal Watts. Thank you for coming on the show. Let's just start with what we just heard from the Getten family and their lawyer. Is there anything you feel you need to respond to at this point? MIKAL WATTS, ATTORNEY FOR CAMP MYSTIC: Well, sure. First, they have my incredible sympathy. It was very emotional testimony for three days. I think that the interesting things that were learned, four main things stuck out to me. Number one, what I've been saying about the volume of water. It was unprecedented. This was a thousand-year flood, three trillion gallons of water, 100 billion gallons of water over Camp Mystic. That's the water flow of a day and a half of the water flow over the Niagara Falls.

But secondly, these lawyers, not my friend Kyle, but the lawyer that was in there, seemed to think it was raining all day on July the 3rd. We had to pull out the Doppler radar to prove that Camp Mystic got no rain on July the 3rd until well after everybody went to bed following taps at 10:00 p.m. And we went hour by hour by hour showing that this weather event did not begin until everybody was asleep. Everybody but Dick Eastland. He was up that night. His night watchman, Glenn Juenke, was up that night.

Mr. Juenke's testimony, I think, was very important. There's a lot of plaintiff's lawyers that are going to be redrafting their pleadings because this entire lawsuit is focused, allegedly, on the proximity of these cabins to the Guadalupe River. Well, they've got several problems with that.

First, at 1:00 p.m., Mr. Juenke was on a golf course driving adjacent to the river, which was not out of its banks. He crossed at 114 Bubblegum Creek in a golf cart. The Polish workers were able to come back at 130 and cross that creek as well. We know that they were both up when my friend Kyle says they were doing nothing. That's not true. Mr. Juenke testified that he was on the Internet looking at sites for the upstream rain gauges. Those rain gauges did --

BROWN: Right. But can I just ask you a quick question, Mikal, because I want to make sure we have that back and forth.

WATTS: Sure. Yes.

BLITZER: They also -- I mean, they were monitoring the Polish workers. They were moving some of the canoes from the water. So, clearly, there was concern of the rising river. And Kyle mentioned there were weather warnings in the days leading up to July 4th.

[10:55:00]

And at the end of yesterday's hearing, the judge said she would add language to her order to say that Camp Mystic operated, quote, "in a high-risk zone" without adequate flood protections and that it lacked emergency plans and training required under Texas code. Is that an acknowledgement from a judge? Is that a setback for Camp Mystic?

WATTS: No, not in any way. She has to make a finding that they pled that. And that's fine that they pled that. But the bottom line is it had nothing to do with why these young ladies died. The proximity of the camp to the Guadalupe River would be causative to those deaths if you had a flood coming up from the river. And what Mr. Juenke testified very clearly is, is that the flood was coming from the other direction. You've been out of this camp. It was not from the river. It did not rise up from the river. It was coming down the hill where the system stalled.

Now, that's important for two reasons. First of all, all these allegations about proximity of these cabins has nothing to do with why they died. And secondly, and perhaps more importantly, even though the system sat and deposited one and a half days of water from the Niagara Falls above it, it was coming down. The river gauges, had they been installed, had we had a siren system, would have gone on and they could have gotten the warning that everybody wants. So, I think that's important as well.

BROWN: And certainly, this was a catastrophic flooding, historic in many ways.

WATTS: Yes.

BROWN: Members of the Eastland family acknowledged in their testimony that they didn't warn campers and counselors of the rising floodwaters or dire weather warnings before cabins were overwhelmed on July 4th. And you mentioned Glenn Juenke. I want to play what he said. He was a night watchman. This is what he said when questioned by Brad Beckworth, the attorney for the family of camper Cile Steward, whose body is still missing. Let's watch.

WATTS: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD BECKWORTH, ATTORNEY FOR STEWARD FAMILY: OK. If we had taken one person who was not a counselor and gotten on a walkie-talkie or a loudspeaker at any point between 2:20 and 3:15 a.m. and said, we need to go to higher ground, go to specific cabins and evacuate the counselors and campers. There were enough able-bodied people there to follow such an order. True?

GLENN JUENKE: Yes, sir.

BECKWORTH: That order was never given, correct?

JUENKE: Correct.

BECKWORTH: And 27 girls died because of that failure, correct?

JUENKE: Yes, sir.

BECKWORTH: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Is that an admission lives could have been saved?

WATTS: No, I think it proves the point that I'm making. We had the resources available. All we needed was the siren warning from the technology that was asked for from the State of Texas a decade before. But what Mr. Beckworth says is a matter of timing is not untrue. If we had gotten that warning and we knew this tsunami of water, this wall of water was coming, there was plenty of time to get those girls out of harm's way.

But that signal, that warning was never delivered to the camp, which is why to its great credit after this tragedy, the state has allocated $50 million to put the very flood detection siren system that they should have put in in 2016 in so that this kind of tragedy will never happen before. So, while the state bears a lot of the blame as to why we lost 119 people, not 27, they also get credit for preventing this from ever happening again.

BROWN: And no question --

WATTS: The good news is these systems are going in and this will never happen again. And God bless everybody for making that happen.

BROWN: And no question, there was a lot of regret and criticism and scrutiny on the fact that there was no flood detection system in the county, Mikal, but why no detailed written flood evacuation plan? Why no walkie-talkies for the counselors? Why no warning over the loudspeakers earlier?

WATTS: Well, number one, there was no warning given to us to communicate over the loudspeakers. If that warning had come, that would have been one of the mechanisms to save these girls.

BROWN: But when the evacuation started, why no warning then? Like when the evacuation started, when they were like, OK, the waters are rising, we need to get these girls out of the cabins. Why no walkie- talkie saying, hey, this is what we need to do. Why no loudspeaker warning? Why no orderly written evacuation plan?

WATTS: OK. So, number one, there was a plan. You stay in the cabin, which is the teaching of the county in Kirk County. You do not walk across, you do not drive across floodwaters. Everybody says that's appropriate. When you're evacuating the cabins down near the river and that's an appropriate thing to do, the water's nowhere close. Mr. Juenke testified it's nowhere close.

So, all of the expectation about the way that that river usually floods coming up from the Guadalupe River was exactly backwards for what happened. And that is, is that if you're concerned about water coming up, you start down closest to the river and move everybody up. And that's what they were doing. The tragedy is the water was coming from behind them from a creek that had never flooded like this before. And you can see in the Polish videos, the direction of that water that is trapping everybody and the twins --

[11:00:00]