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New York Primaries; New Information Emerges on Downed U.S. Jet; Savannah Guthrie Speaks Out; Supreme Court Rules on Religious Rights Case. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired June 23, 2026 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Well, this is a really exciting moment...

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: This is. This is a legitimate one.

BLITZER: ... for those of us who are Buffalonians, you know?

BROWN: That's right.

BLITZER: I grew up in Buffalo. Did I ever mention that I'm a Bills fan?

BROWN: You have mentioned it, Wolf, yes.

BLITZER: Yes, OK.

BROWN: And now I am because of you. I have to be.

BLITZER: Of course. You grew up in Kentucky.

BROWN: Exactly.

BLITZER: That's a long way from Buffalo.

BROWN: Pro football wasn't a thing there.

BLITZER: Yes.

BROWN: All right, well, the next hour of THE SITUATION ROOM starts right now.

And happening now, breaking news: speaking out about new details. Savannah Guthrie is now commenting on revelations that the second ransom note sent to the media outlets in February claimed her mother, Nancy, had died.

BLITZER: Leaving the Grand Old Party. Just two years after speaking at the Republican National Convention, Tucker Carlson now says he's out.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM. ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And the breaking news: The U.S. Supreme Court has just handed down its opinion on a case that involves religious freedom in prisons.

BROWN: This morning, the court ruled that a devout Rastafarian, Damon Landor, could not proceed with his efforts to sue prison officials for cutting his dreadlocks. This is a rare instance of the conservative court siding against a religious claim.

I want to bring in CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid and CNN anchor and chief legal analyst Laura Coates.

So, Paula, first to you. If you would, just tell us about this decision.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, we have been watching this closely because this is a court that is increasingly protective of religious rights. And the question here is interesting, because this is a Rastafarian who wants to be able to sue prison officials in Louisiana because he says that his religious rights were violated when they cut off his dreadlocks, which were down to his knees.

But the case is actually being decided on something pretty technical, whether he has the standing to sue, the right to sue under a law that Congress passed in 2000.

And, here, writing for a 6-3 majority, Justice Gorsuch said that he is not actually covered by this law. He does not have the right to sue. I want to note, though, that 6-3 split. We got five opinions today, four of them were the 6-3 conservative liberal divide. That's what we saw these being decided on.

Now, I will say we're still waiting, though, on the biggest cases this term. They're really saving the best for last. We were thinking today we might get one of these blockbuster decisions. A lot of questions about President Trump's executive power, his power to limit birthright citizenship, change immigration policy, who he can and cannot fire, also big questions about transgender athletes in student sports, questions about mail-in ballots.

But this is the biggest case that we got today, definitely one we have been watching, but I guess the justices are just like us. They're procrastinators, only a few more days to give us all these other blockbuster cases.

BLITZER: Traditionally, they leave the biggest cases for the final few days before they go into their summer recess.

REID: Exactly right.

BLITZER: And that's what they're doing apparently this time as well.

Laura, how significant is this case, as it involves the religious rights for prisoners?

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: It is significant.

We have this impression in our society, and it's the wrong one, that when somebody is incarcerated, they lose all of their rights. That's not true. They have protections even when they are incarcerated, as it should be.

This is a case where they were not wrestling with whether or not his rights were violated. They believed they were violated by the shaving of his head. It was contrary to his religious belief that you cannot cut your hair as a Rastafarian, so-called Nazarite law.

And he actually showed the prison guards an actual court order suggesting that Rastafarians should protect have these protections in place in the prison, and they handcuffed him and shaved his head anyway in the remaining weeks when he was transferred to a new prison.

The question, as Paula indicated, is not whether or not that was a violation, but whether or not he could sue for damages and money from the state prison, as opposed to this being a federal issue.

BROWN: Yes, I want to go to one of the big blockbusters, if not the biggest, and that is, of course, is on birthright citizenship.

Even President Trump himself has expressed doubt that the justices will rule in his favor. Tell us more about what we're expecting.

COATES: Well, he should express doubt because it is doubtful, although the fact that it's taken three months for him to craft an opinion, some might view as an ominous sign of even entertaining this.

But the very first line of the 14th Amendment talks about being a natural-born or somebody who has been born in this country having the jurisdiction of the state and the country as well. It was a ratification of the 14th Amendment back in the 1860s. It was then interpreted as a plain meaning in the Wong Kim case 30 years later, where the court plainly said, even if your parents are not citizens of this country and you are born here, you are a citizen.

And the president has said that 14th Amendment relates only to the children of freed black slaves, that's it. That's incorrect. It also suggests that one who is unlawfully in the country is not subject to the jurisdiction of our nation, and therefore they don't have the proper domicile, and they cannot be held to believe to be protected in our country.

[11:05:00]

That's a tortured interpretation that every legal scholar who really was in front of the court talking about this have said. But they entertained it. And they had have gone on, seven -- at least seven justices seemed very, very intent on not dismantling what has been the law of the land for nearly 150 years.

Yet and still, here we are. REID: We are.

And, look, President Trump, his lawyers, especially when he came into his second term, they were confident that they were going to be able to get a lot through this conservative supermajority. They have been successful in many cases. But, this one, I mean, it was March of last year, someone on his legal team told me, look, we're probably going to lose this one. Everybody's got a boss.

So I think they're very much, as you noted, expecting that this will not be a victory.

BROWN: Yes.

REID: But the big question is, what will the split be?

BROWN: Yes, that is a question. And this was the one that President Trump attended, if I recall, right?

REID: Yes, he attended.

BROWN: Yes.

REID: It didn't really seem to help. They didn't seem any more sympathetic because he was in the audience.

BROWN: Right.

REID: But, yes, that was his -- the first time attending a Supreme Court argument, even though we know, of course, he's been at the center of major, major cases over the past seven or eight years.

BROWN: Yes, absolutely. All right, Paula Reid, Laura Coates, thank you all.

And a reminder to watch Laura Coates' show, "LAURA COATES LIVE," tonight, for more analysis. That's at 11:00 p.m. Eastern.

Very long day, Laura. Thank you so much for coming on this morning.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: I will be watching at 11:00 tonight.

Breaking news: a new emotional plea from "Today Show" host Savannah Guthrie for information about her missing 84-year-old mother, Nancy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, CO-HOST, "THE TODAY SHOW": I wanted to just take the opportunity to ask people, to -- really to beg people to come forward. Somebody knows something. And this is a new story today that is on your radar, but this is the life that my sister lives, that I live, that my brother lives, that our extended families live, that our children live every day. And we are in agony. We cannot be at peace. So, no matter how much I

try to come out here every day and smile and find that joy, and I will -- I promise I will -- this is a moment to tell you that we need your help. We're begging for your help. And I'm not going to miss that opportunity.

And so, please, if you're watching...

CRAIG MELVIN, CO-HOST, "THE TODAY SHOW": Yes.

GUTHRIE: ... no matter how small, the reward is there. You can tell us. It can be anonymous. Please do the right thing for us, for our family, for our children. And we love our mom. And we will never stop looking for her, never.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Just need this closure. Our hearts go out to them.

And it comes after multiple law enforcement sources tell CNN a note sent to media outlets almost five months ago claimed Nancy Guthrie died shortly after she was kidnapped, that the kidnappers didn't intend to kill her. The note was one of two of the family and investigators believe are real.

And we should note the investigation is still very much active. There is no leading suspect and no key person of interest.

BLITZER: And joining us now, CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe.

Andrew, what do you make of this new detail that she died, but they didn't intend to kill her?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, it's a really tragic and horrible, but also fascinating development in this excruciating story, and my heart goes out to the Guthrie family for having to live through this incredibly unfair and brutal experience.

But if we think back to those first two messages to the family, those two messages are really the only ones that law enforcement really got behind. Those were the ones that was clear that the investigators felt like were probably from people who were actually involved in the kidnapping.

And the reason for that is, there were details in both of those messages that actually talked about things, pieces of evidence that were left at the crime scene, things that you would not know unless you had been there that night and been involved in that abduction.

Now we have learned, of course, that the second letter indicated that Ms. Guthrie passed away either that night or shortly thereafter, which is also consistent with some of the evidence that was found at the scene. You will remember, Wolf, that her blood was recovered on or around the front doorstep area of the house. She is, of course, a uniquely vulnerable victim. She's an elderly lady

with serious mobility issues, other very serious health issues. We know that her cardiac monitor stopped reading any sort of a signal on that evening. That could be for multiple reasons, but her passing is certainly one of them.

So it tells us something more about what happened that night, and it gives us a unique insight into what might be some feeling of regret on the part of the kidnappers.

BROWN: And this was a note that was sent to several media outlets, including CNN, many months ago, nearly five months ago. At the time, investigators and the family asked the media outlets not to report on this, given the investigation.

Now that this is out, what does this mean for the investigation?

[11:10:00]

MCCABE: Well, the investigation certainly has gotten a lot colder as time has gone by. So, you can expect that investigators are really kind of relooking at all the old leads they have already covered, looking at all the information that they have acquired over the course of this thing, and looking for new avenues of investigation.

Were I on that team, this is one of the things I'd be looking at, because the possibility that someone involved with the kidnapping who was also involved in sending that second note might be harboring some regret about what they did and the way things turned out, that is a very important kind of human connection, that if investigators could appeal to that connection, could communicate in some way with that person, they might be able to convince them to at long last provide some information about where Ms. Guthrie is now, where her remains could be recovered.

And that, of course, would be so important to the family at this point. So, even if the kidnappers are not confident enough to move forward with the ransom to provide that information, they could easily provide the information totally anonymously just to resolve this thing, this horrible issue for the family.

BROWN: Yes.

BLITZER: Andy McCabe, thank you very, very much.

And, to our viewers, this is important. If you have any information at all about this case, call the number on your screen. You see it right there, 1-800-CALL-FBI.

And still ahead: mass firings at the nation's premier intelligence agency as the new acting chief takes over. We have new details.

BROWN: And a SITUATION ROOM special report from Turning Point USA's Women's Leadership Summit, where women are speaking out on feminism, gender roles, and the conspiracy surrounding Charlie Kirk's death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's so awful what's being believed. And I feel like that's spiritual warfare. I feel like we're seeing real-life spiritual warfare coming after this organization.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:25]

BROWN: First, in a SITUATION ROOM CNN exclusive reporting of what a U.S. fighter jet pilot saw right before ejecting over Iran. His plane was shot down in April, and, at the time, President Trump said it was from a shoulder-fired missile.

Well, according to sources, the pilot saw multiple Iranian drones swarming and moving in a formation that looked like jellyfish. One of the sources described it as a -- quote -- "real alien," these sources speaking to my colleagues Zach Cohen and Katie Bo Lillis.

That fighter pilot was later rescued by special forces.

BLITZER: CNN senior national security reporter Zachary Cohen is here with us in THE SITUATION ROOM with his exclusive reporting.

Zach, tell us a little bit more about what the pilot described seeing and how the intelligence community is reacting.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, sources say that this description really shocked U.S. intelligence officials who were conducting this debrief of this pilot who was shot down and then subsequently rescued after they were shot down over Iran in April.

And our sources say that the pilot was talking about witnessing multiple drones that were interconnected, with the larger drones operating above the smaller ones, the smaller ones acting sort of as legs, all of these drones moving in unison, which suggested that there was interconnectivity between them.

And that's something that we're told was not something the intelligence community, the U.S. intelligence community, was really tracking as far as Iran's drone capabilities are concerned.

Another source characterizing the pilot's account as describing a minefield of drones. And initial reports did acknowledge the possibility that these drones could have in some way enabled the Iranians to shoot down this F-15 fighter jet, which would be a pretty remarkable moment in this conflict, given this was the first instance in which a manned U.S. aircraft was shot down by the Iranians.

Now, there are some questions as to whether or not this pilot did actually see what he described as seeing in this debrief. For one, the pilot was concussed from being shot down, and, two, this was actually the second time he had been shot out of the sky during the weeks-long conflict with Iran. He was one of the pilots that was hit by friendly fire over Kuwait just a few months -- or weeks before that too.

But all that taken into account, this did spark a debate inside the U.S. intelligence community about Iran's drone program and Iran's drone capabilities, and, if they were able to achieve this new capability as far, as the U.S. was concerned, how did they manage to do that without intelligence agencies seeing that happening?

And one idea that is the most likely scenario, if this was in fact the reality of what the pilot saw, that they would like -- Iran likely needed help from Russia or China in order to do this. Now, there's a trail of evidence that suggests Russia and China have both provided drone technology to Iran, and that's something sources described to me as really the biggest indicator of how Iran could have achieved this capability.

BLITZER: Interesting reporting.

Good work, Zach Cohen. Thank you very much.

BROWN: You and Katie Bo Lillis, thank you.

All right, back with us here in THE SITUATION ROOM is CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

I wonder just what your reaction is to what you heard from Zach's reporting here, what this pilot purportedly saw, and the reaction from the intelligence community, the surprise.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, surprise is always a bad thing in the intelligence business, right, Pam?

And so when you look at you know what the pilot allegedly saw in Zach's reporting, and you combine all these factors, what is distinctly possible is that there is a new technology or at least new tactics being employed here.

What this is similar to is, basically, there's a concept that even the U.S. Air Force has of having manned aircraft serve as kind of the quarterback of a combined manned-unmanned fleet that would go after a set of targets.

[11:20:08]

Now, this is different because, according to this report, the basic idea would be that the quarterback is in essence played by larger -- a larger drone, and that larger drone would then be controlled by a ground controller somewhere in Iran, presumably.

The way in which this would work would require a lot of sophisticated tactics and techniques to have been developed. And it's most likely, as Zach was reporting, that these tactics and techniques were developed either in China or Russia, or a combination thereof, and then potentially adapted by the Iranians for this purpose.

BLITZER: You're a retired U.S. Air Force colonel. How do you defend against this so-called jellyfish formation of drones? LEIGHTON: So, that's going to be a real challenge for the Air Force

and really all flying entities out there, because a formation like this, first of all, it was a surprise to the pilot when he saw something like this.

And then the other part of it is, is that the whole effort behind this is to create something that overwhelms the natural defenses that the pilot has, as well as the electronic defenses that the aircraft would have. For example, an aircraft has something known as a radar warning receiver.

And it's designed to really take a look at all the radar inputs that are coming that are possible threats to the aircraft. When you have multiple inputs or no input at all, but a threat like that, it's really hard to defend against that. So there is going to have to be probably an integration of artificial intelligence into defensive capabilities.

It's also going to really rely on the ability of the intelligence agencies to assess exactly what technologies were employed and what techniques were employed, because the tactics and techniques are going to be critical to countering them, and understanding of that is going to be key.

BLITZER: It's impressive. The U.S. pilot ejected in Iran, but was still rescued by U.S. military personnel.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely.

And that speaks to a whole realm of combat search-and-rescue capabilities that are basically generations, light years ahead of what happened back in 1980, when we attempted the hostage rescue mission. The interoperability at that time back in 1980 was far less than what it is today.

This was a textbook rescue operation and was executed, based on all accounts that we have right now, almost flawlessly. There were some issues with the aircraft having to be left behind and basically blown up on the makeshift field, but that's something that's relatively minor compared to saving the -- not only the pilot's life, but all the rescuers' lives as well.

BROWN: And it's incredible, when you learn about this technology, that there weren't more casualties or deaths or anything from...

LEIGHTON: Yes.

BROWN: Just from the pilot, the WSO, and all the rescuers involved, right?

LEIGHTON: Absolutely, yes, because, normally, the WSO's job, or weapons systems officer's job, is to really be able to help defend the aircraft against threats of any type, but specifically electronic threats.

And this kind of an operation may either take place in a frequency, the command-and-control frequency, that would be something that is not being picked up by our aircraft. That's a possibility. Or it may be done in a way where there is no radio transmission, where the systems operate autonomously, and they have been preprogrammed to go after certain target sets.

And the F-15 may have been a target of opportunity, or it may have been something that they had preplanned and were basically willing to test this tactic against a flying manned aircraft that the U.S. Air Force was flying.

BROWN: All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, always great to have you on and get your perspective. Thank you.

BLITZER: He knows his stuff.

BROWN: He does, absolutely. I can confirm that.

BLITZER: And just ahead: new drone footage from the front lines of Russia's war against Ukraine.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:19]

BLITZER: Happening now: It's primary day, and polls are open in New York, Utah, Maryland, and for a run-off in South Carolina.

The political power of Mayor Zohran Mamdani is being tested in the Big Apple. Democratic socialists are gaining momentum with recent wins. And Mamdani is backing candidates in key House races highlighting broader ideological battles within the Democratic Party.

Joining us now are CNN political commentator former senior adviser to Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign Karen Finney, and T.W. Arrighi, a former senior communications aide to Senator Lindsey Graham.

Karen, let me start with you.

Let's talk about New York for a moment. Mayor Mamdani is throwing his political clout behind progressive challengers. What will today's outcome mean for the future of your Democratic Party?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think a couple things.

Number one, for Mamdani, this is a big deal that he is really trying to use his political capital, and obviously he will be judged on how those candidates do.

The other thing, though, I would say, for the party, I know we like to get into the labels of Democratic socialists or Democrats, but I -- what we're paying attention to is, what is it telling us about where voters are? What is it telling us about what voters are saying they want?

And it's very clear it is about cost. It is about the cost of health care. It is about housing, very practical. And you're hearing voters say, I want people who say they're going to cut through the red tape and just get something done.

So that's what we're really paying attention to in terms of the bigger picture.

BLITZER: Interesting.

T.W., let's talk a little bit about -- well, let me ask Karen this question. She's a Democrat.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: The House minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, as you know, is backing incumbents in both the 10th and 13th congressional districts in New York...

FINNEY: Right.

BLITZER: ... while Mamdani has backed their opponents. Who has more power right now, Jeffries or Mamdani?