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Senate Panel Votes to Hold Fauci in Contempt of Congress; Trump Denies Munitions Shortage, U.S. Has Massive Amounts; Three People Charged With Making Threats in Nolan Wells Investigation. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired August 06, 2026 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news, held in contempt of Congress, a GOP-led Senate committee approves the measure after Dr. Anthony Fauci invoked the Fifth Amendment more than 100 times during his testimony last week.

Plus, first of its kind, we're going to break down what you need to know about the new mRNA flu vaccine, how effective it is, how it's different from a traditional flu shot, and when it'll be available.

And then later, key voting tests. Right now, people are heading to the polls in Tennessee in the first election under a new Republican-drawn map. The lawyer who argued this case when it came before the Supreme Court will join us just ahead.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And denying a shortage. President Trump now says the United States has, quote, massive amounts of munitions, as his vice president admits talks with Iran will be messy.

Plus, A.I. going rogue, what we're now learning about another artificial intelligence model hacking into a company. This is the third time this has happened in the last few weeks.

And later, refund gap. Corporations got billions of dollars in tariff refunds last quarter. Wondering where your cut is? We'll make it make sense.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

Happening now, breaking news, Dr. Anthony Fauci held in contempt of Congress for invoking the Fifth Amendment dozens of times at a hearing last week. The Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, which is chaired by Republican Senator Rand Paul, voted moments ago along party lines.

We're now waiting to see if Dr. Fauci will ultimately face criminal prosecution by the U.S. Justice Department. All of this comes as CNN has learned that a Senate subcommittee investigating Dr. Fauci has obtained a copy of his work cell phone, which he used during his time as director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Let's go live right now to CNN Senior Reporter Annie Grayer. She's up on Capitol Hill. Annie, what more are you learning about this historic vote today?

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Wolf, it unfolded in the committee room behind me, where all Republicans voted to hold Anthony Fauci in contempt of Congress.

And what's unusual here is normally what would then happen is an entire vote would happen in the Senate. Instead, the chairman of this committee, Rand Paul, is going to send this referral directly to the Department of Justice, and that is taking an unprecedented path that Democrats warned as this vote was happening could set a new precedent that they -- Democrats warned that they might try something similar if they ever reclaim the majority.

But Republicans feel firm in their position here that they want the Department of Justice to look at whether Anthony Fauci can plead the Fifth Amendment and not testify to Congress. Because as we saw in his hearing, Fauci pled the Fifth more than 100 times, which is his right as a citizen, but Republicans are arguing that they are demanding answers and the DOJ needs to investigate.

Democrats were trying to delay this vote this morning, and wanting legal experts to weigh in, wanting, wanting to have more of a discussion about this process before Republicans just went forward with it. At some points, Wolf, this hearing got pretty heated. Take a listen to some of that back and forth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): I've let you go on and on, and we're going to get to the votes.

SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): Well, I understand that, but I didn't -- don't remember ever cutting you off when you were ranking member, and I've always respected your rights, and I'll continue to respect your rights. I would just hope that you would offer that same courtesy to us because things do change and precedent is important, and I would urge my colleagues to table this resolution until we have a chance to look at the information, as has been the practice of this committee for as long as this committee has been in existence.

PAUL: For the record, Anthony Fauci refused a voluntary private deposition, and that's why he was brought in under subpoena. With regard --

PETERS: Because it was going to be one-sided.

PAUL: Don't interrupt the chair. Don't interrupt the chair.

With regard to access to records, there has been an unprecedented access to records. They have all been uploaded on a website that you were invited to join.

[10:05:00] You refused to join.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRAYER: So, that went back and forth for a while, Democrats arguing that Republicans have been pursuing a partisan investigation that they have not been part of. Republicans arguing that this is available for anyone to see. But once -- now that this passes out of committee, it'll be up to the Department of Justice who are going to have all this, and Fauci, as we know, has a preemptive pardon from former President Joe Biden. That's another implication factor of all this as well, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Annie Gray reporting for us. Thank you very much, Annie. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, Wolf. With us now is CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. So, Elie, lay out the arguments here legally on both sides for and against contempt.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Pam, Senator Rand Paul's core argument is, as Annie just said, Dr. Fauci was given a pardon by Joe Biden in January of 2025. A person who has been pardoned, of course, cannot be prosecuted for anything within the scope of that pardon, and therefore you can't take the Fifth. There's no way to incriminate yourself if you can't be charged.

The response, however, that we heard from Dr. Fauci's lawyer and from some Democrats today is, okay, but Dr. Fauci still faces potential criminal exposure for things outside the scope of that pardon. For example, Dr. Fauci could at least theoretically face state-level prosecution. We know there are several state-level attorneys general who have open investigations into Dr. Fauci, and Dr. Fauci could theoretically be prosecuted for anything after the date of that pardon, so after January 19th of 2025. And so that's the basis that Dr. Fauci is maintaining he's taking the Fifth on.

BLITZER: As you know, Elie, Dr. Fauci was given a full unconditional and preemptive pardon by President Biden. But Rand Paul, the chairman of this committee, says that Fauci gave up his right to take the Fifth Amendment because of his opening statement. Does that carry any legal weight, what Rand Paul is now saying?

HONIG: So, there is a legal doctrine, Wolf, called waiver, and that means once a person has testified about a specific subject, he cannot then take the Fifth when he's questioned about that same subject. You can't say your piece, and then when you're questioned, say, Oh, but I take the Fifth now. And so Senator Paul's argument is when Dr. Fauci last week gave his opening statement, that essentially opened the door, and he can't then take the Fifth after he gave that opening statement.

I think the response to that is if you look at Dr. Fauci's opening statement, it is brief, it's about two minutes long, and it does not actually get into the substance of any of the medical issues around COVID. Instead, what it really is is Dr. Fauci giving an explanation of why he's taking the Fifth Amendment. And so if that's the prevailing view, then he did not waive his Fifth Amendment rights. But this is something that I'm sure will be litigated in the upcoming weeks.

BROWN: And, Elie, you heard Republican Senator Josh Hawley talk about the fact that he even pleaded the Fifth with questions about the color of his tie or the color of the carpets. Was that legitimate to invoke the Fifth in questions about things like that? Because Senator Hawley argued that it wasn't, because there's -- he's never going to be incriminating himself with answering a question like the color of his tie.

HONIG: Right. You can't be prosecuted for the color of your tie or the color of the sky or whatever. What Josh Hawley was trying to do there, though, was sort of illustrate the absurdity of taking the Fifth all across the board, no matter what a person's asked.

But I will tell you, any half-decent defense lawyer who's representing someone in Dr. Fauci's position will tell him, if we're going to take the Fifth here, we're taking it across the board, no matter what you're asked. Because once you get into the game as a witness who may have a Fifth Amendment right of saying, well, okay, that question falls within my Fifth Amendment right, that one doesn't, I'll answer this, I won't answer that, you're going to end up in a gray area as a witness in Dr. Fauci's position. You're going to end up putting yourself in potential jeopardy.

And so I will tell you, any half-competent defense lawyer will tell a client in Fauci's position, you're going to take the Fifth and you're going to do it across the board, or you're going to answer questions, but there's no middle ground here.

BROWN: So, now we know Fauci could be referred to the DOJ with recommendations for criminal prosecution. What are prosecutors going to be considering? I mean, do you think that this is actually going to end up in charges filed?

HONIG: It's a great question. It's the big question now. The Senate can hold anyone in contempt, or a Senate committee, for whatever they deem contempt to be. But when you're a prosecutor, it's a different and more difficult determination. When you're a prosecutor, you have to ask, can we prove that this person committed a crime, crime of contempt, beyond a reasonable doubt? And so if you're looking at this case, prosecutors, if they do charge Dr. Fauci, are going to have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not have a Fifth Amendment right there.

And so if it's a murky legal question, if Dr. Fauci probably had a legal right to take the Fifth, if Dr. Fauci maybe had a legal right to take the Fifth, that's not going to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed a crime when he took the Fifth. So, the bar is really high here.

And, Pam, I should note, the person who by law would be bringing a charge if Dr. Fauci is to be charged with contempt is the U.S. attorney for Washington D.C., which is Jeanine Pirro. [10:10:08]

Of course, she's been in the news, and she has invoked the president's ire over the recent Reflecting Pool case. So, it'll be a complicated calculus within the Justice Department.

BROWN: That's a really good point. Elie Honig, great to see you, thanks so much.

HONIG: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: Wolf?

BLITZER: And still ahead, the cyclospora outbreak linked to lettuce expanding right now to an additional six states. Which ones were added to the list?

BROWN: And then later, three people charged with threats to officials in the Nolan Wells investigation. What they're accused of and who they targeted.

You're in The Situation Room, and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

BROWN: Happening now, President Trump is railing against reports that the U.S. is facing a shortage of munitions, saying in a post that the U.S. has, quote, massive amounts. There have been multiple reports on dwindling U.S. stockpiles of important munitions for missile defense systems, and some of those reports coming from CNN.

So, let's go live now to White House Correspondent Alayna Treene. Alayna, what more can you tell us about the state of U.S. munitions and how the administration is responding here?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, I do want to start with what the president posted. It was just after midnight this morning really trying to defend the U.S. military at this point and try to, you know, tamp down concerns about the state of the stockpiles still in the Pentagon's possession. He said that the U.S. has massive amounts of munitions, especially of certain types. He also argued that large amounts are being manufactured and shipped to the U.S. as needed.

It comes, as you mentioned, Pamela, a lot of different media reports, including from CNN, just detailing kind of the dire situation of these munitions. Some reporting from our colleagues, which was great, shows that the U.S. military has exhausted nearly 80 percent of its interceptors for a key missile defense system, known as THAAD. And also we know that roughly half of its Patriot interceptors since the start of the war have also been depleted.

I will say, this is not something entirely new. We have been hearing from our sources for weeks and months now really that the pace at which the U.S. military was going through its stockpiles was of a big concern. But I think the president, that post, was really trying to get ahead of things to show, you know, one, he doesn't want the U.S. to look weak, especially at a time when they're having these, and he's continuing to issue his threats.

And talking of those negotiations, we did hear from the vice president, talked at length in the past about his relationships with the Iranians, arguing that this is a very messy time for these talks. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I do think that where we will ultimately land, it's going to be messy and it's going to take some time to get there. Where we will ultimately land, as you see, oil I think was at $79 today. Those oil prices are going to come down and stay down. Iran will never have a nuclear weapon, and the United States will be in a stronger position. But we're kind of in the middle of the game, and I think people are trying to, to prejudge exactly how this is going to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, I will say, Pamela, just to put this all in context, we are now in the six-month mark of this war. This has gone on a lot longer than a lot of people here in Washington had anticipated or had hoped. And it also comes, of course, as one of the key things that they're working on right now, trying to get a deal on, is to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, something that wasn't an issue before this war. So, all of this, including the behind the scenes and how they're going to proceed with talks and movements moving forward.

BROWN: All right. Aylayna Treene live for us at White House, thanks so much. Wolf?

BLITZER: And coming up, another AI model goes rogue. This time, it's Meta's version. The company is calling it, and I'm quoting now, an inadvertent error. What we're learning, we have details.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

BLITZER: New this morning, three people are facing federal charges in the investigation into the death of 18-year-old Nolan Wells. According to court documents, one of them allegedly threatened to kill a witness and their family, and another accused -- is accused of threatening a judge.

Nolan Wells was found dead two days after a July 4th boat trip with friends to an island off of Mississippi's Gulf Coast. Wells was the only black person in the group.

Let's go live right now to CNN Senior National Correspondent Ryan Young, who's been working the story for us. Do we know, Ryan, if the accused have any connection to Nolan Wells or his family?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Wolf. There's been no connection between the family and the folks who've reached out to make those threats, according to authorities. In fact one woman was from Ohio, another man was from California, and another person was from Illinois.

And we understand that the internet and people around it really have a high interest in this case. The attacks have gone on both sides. Nolan Wells' mom has faced a tremendous amount of attacks. The family has faced a lot of attacks about asking for answers when it comes to the fact that Nolan Wells has been missing for more than a month at this point, and we know that they found his body back in July.

But at the same time, authorities haven't stepped forward giving a timeline to see what the investigation has moved forward so far. We also believe the autopsy is finally done. But the threats and the chatter online have grown so loud, it's almost like a separate story in this case. And we understand that people want information, but the threats were concerning enough for authorities to move forward with these charges.

But let's take a listen to Nolan Wells' mom, who I talked to last week, just about the pain they're going through and what they want.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE WONSLEY, NOLAN WELLS' MOTHER: At this point, we refuse to allow that negativity to come into our home, to come into our hearts, our minds. We will not pay that back to the people who are giving it to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Yes. Wolf, look, I was asking them questions last week about this. Let's not forget they have two other sons that they're also trying to protect at this point.

Once again, we are still waiting for authorities. We've been pressing on a day-to-day basis to figure out whether or not there could be a timeline involved in this case, have they looked at the audio, when the toxicology comes back.

[10:25:00]

These are all questions that we're asking on a day-to-day basis, Wolf, with no answers.

BLITZER: All right. Ryan Young working the story for us, thank you very much. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, Wolf, just ahead, a vaccine first, and just in time for flu season. What we're learning about a newly approved mRNA shot, and how it could save lives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Happening now, challenging conditions return to the Pacific Northwest as crews battle wildfires across Oregon and Washington State. Flame-fueling winds and intense heat will arrive tomorrow and continue through the weekend. It's the worst fire season in more than 30 years for both of those states.

[10:30:02]

And you could soon be paying more for avocados.