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Arkansas Woman Files Civil Rights Complaint After Violent Arrest; Lindsay Clancy Triple Murder Trial Resumes; Lindsay Clancy Trial Sheds Light on Postpartum Psychosis; Rare Total Eclipse to Dazzle Millions. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired August 12, 2026 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: -- gun without firing it. In your view, could either of those actions be justified, particularly when you look at the size difference here?

JILLIAN SNIDER, RETIRED NYPD OFFICER: So, we have a use of force continuum that most agencies train their officers or troopers on, and it is not technically protocol to be punching anyone in the face in most cases at all, unless you have to. The standard is reasonable force, or what's reasonably necessary.

So, in a case like this, I don't know the height and weight of this trooper, but there's obviously a weight difference, a height difference, he's a male, she's a female. Most agencies would train their officers in a case like this to use joint blocks or pressure point techniques, where we would take the arm and use an arm bar to gain compliance, where we wouldn't actually strike the person. A stun gun in this case, in my opinion, would be very inappropriate, because the force used by the young female was not escalated to what needed a stun gun.

BROWN: So, she is now filing a civil rights complaint, claiming excessive force, violation of free speech, and other accusations. How do you think this video would play in front of the jury?

SNIDER: Personally, I don't think it's going to fare well for this trooper. I know that he is young on the job, I think barely a year with seven months in the street. So, this is really going to call into question the way he's trained, what kind of field supervision they have. Do they have field training officers that go out? What do the supervisors do?

So, I think all of that is going to be a culmination of how a jury interprets this video, but on top of it, I think what's also important is discovering if this trooper has any prior use of force or excessive force complaints against him.

BROWN: All right. Jillian Snider, thank you so much for coming on.

SNIDER: Thank you.

BROWN: And just ahead, a psychiatric nurse practitioner takes the stand in the Lindsay Clancy murder trial. How her testimony could impact the defense's case that Clancy suffered from postpartum psychosis. And we're going to hear from one mother about her own experience with the very affliction of postpartum psychosis. She says she could have been Lindsay Clancy. We'll be right back.

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[11:35:00]

BROWN: Happening now, the Lindsay Clancy triple murder trial has resumed. And jurors could hear more from the people who treated her. The panel spent Tuesday hearing from a psychiatric nurse. She testified that Clancy had repeatedly asked to change her medications because she claimed they were causing intrusive thoughts and insomnia. Clancy has pleaded not guilty to murdering her three children. She claims the killings happened during a psychotic episode caused by a postpartum mental illness.

CNN's Jean Casarez is closely following this trial for us. So, Jean, what was the significance of this psychiatric nurse's testimony?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there was a lot of significance. I want to tell you who's on the stand right now. It is Latiesha Dukes. She is a licensed counselor, two master degrees, specializes in perinatal. And she said that when she first saw Lindsay Clancy on December 2nd, she said that she did not want to be here anymore. She was having intrusive thoughts. She did a full assessment of her, and she asked her, what is your plan if you don't want to be here anymore? She did not have a plan, continued to ask, but because of not having a plan, it did not rise to the next level.

Now, Rebecca Jollotta you're talking about, she was a licensed psychiatric nurse practitioner who first saw Lindsay Clancy a few days before that. They were with the same facility, South Shore Women's Health. And she assessed her. She wanted her to start taking, and she knew she had been on a lot of medications and had stopped them along the way, but she wanted her to begin Remeron at a very low dosage. And so, Lindsay Clancy started that. But several days after that, she said, I can't do this. The symptoms are very exasperated, and I'm having side effects. I've got to stop this. She tried to explain to her that it can take time to see beneficial effects. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REBECCA JOLLOTTA, LICENSED PSYCHIATRIC NURSE PRACTITIONER: I explained to her that it takes time to work, that it has only been four days. So, I did encourage her to give it some more time. I also made additional recommendations as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And on cross-examination, tried to show that Lindsay Clancy, although she was a labor and delivery nurse, she didn't know everything in the area of some of these mental medications, the psychotic medications that she was being prescribed. And the defense attorney said she'd be on the computer at night doing 40, 60, 80 searches per night on medications that would help her get better.

The intent, she wanted to get better, but at least in the mind of Lindsay Clancy, she just couldn't get better. Medication after medication, and the consensus was she just could not stay on the treatment plan. And even Lindsay said, I'm not staying on the treatment plan. Maybe this is all me.

BROWN: Jean Casarez, thank you. Well, this trial has raised awareness of a lesser-known postpartum mental health crisis that some new moms face. One calls herself a survivor of postpartum psychosis. Meghan Cliffel says she, quote, "came too close" to being Lindsay Clancy herself. Listen to her Instagram post.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGHAN CLIFFEL, POSTPARTUM PSYCHOSIS SURVIVOR AND MATERNAL MENTAL HEALTH ADVOCATE: I headed to a scheduled happy hour as planned. At that happy hour, my mind convinced me it was a recruitment event for a cult. I was so sure that if I didn't join, my children would be killed. So, I raced home to protect them. My husband and two daughters were there.

In that moment, it felt like it was me versus him. I landed punches on his face trying to get to our two girls. And then when that didn't work, switched strategies and tried to get to the roof of our apartment building to jump.

[11:40:00]

Thankfully, he was stronger than me and kept me from the kids and the roof. The saga ended with me in handcuffs and an admittance to Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital for a two-week stay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Wow. Well, Cliffel is now a mental health advocate and she joins us now. Meghan, I just want to acknowledge first off how brave you are to share your story and how many women I know you are helping by doing that.

We heard you recount that night, but just if you would walk us through what happened after that and if anything before that precipitated it or if you saw this coming.

CLIFFEL: Sure. So, I had postpartum psychosis after my second child. And I had a pretty good maternity leave. I felt well. It was when I went back to work about a month after I went back to work where I started to say I didn't feel like myself. But honestly, I couldn't really language anything more than that. And my husband and I had agreed, well, if you still feel this way in two weeks, let's go see somebody.

But we were two working parents in New York City, kind of just like trying to keep everything afloat with two little kids and, you know, not much help. And so, I kept going from about four months when I said I didn't feel like myself until eight months postpartum when suddenly my rational mind left me. And I was suddenly convinced I was the center of a complex plot out to get me and my kids and that my husband was in on it. And it was terrifying. I wouldn't have believed something like that could happen if I hadn't experienced it myself, honestly.

I will say, you know, when I experienced this in December of 2015, I thought, oh, if only people knew about this illness, like we would change how we treat mothers and families. But the reality of this highly treatable temporary illness is that we've seen it and it's been documented since the time of Hippocrates. But it's still not part of our kind of bible of psychiatry, the DSM and such. It's a fact that allows it to go undetected, poorly treated, allows parents and families not to be aware of it. And so, you know, it's really -- it's tragic that instead of sort of building a system of care centered around illnesses we know about and like postpartum psychosis that we can actually prevent and treat.

And then more broadly, you know, we're aware that maternal mental health complications are the most common complication of childbirth. Yet our system actually intended to support that.

BROWN: Well, and I think it's notable you said it happened --

CLIFFEL: You sort of like have the baby and then -- yes. Sorry.

BROWN: Right. As I say, I felt like chopped liver after I had my baby, right? And I had my own struggles. And I think it's notable because at my six-month appointment, I actually had said I was having really bad anxiety. It turns out it was postpartum OCD, but like I was kind of brushed off.

And it's notable, there's only one appointment, you know, to kind of get that checkup. And yours happened eight months after this episode.

CLIFFEL: Totally.

BROWN: I just think that in and of itself is important to raise awareness about. And I want to better understand why you say you saw yourself and Lindsay Clancy. I mean, if you had not gotten the help you needed, how much of a risk do you think you could have been to yourself or others?

CLIFFEL: I mean, literally, before the NYPD arrived at my apartment, I'm running from door to door trying to get to my children to save them, I believed from the cult that was closing in on us and a poisonous gas that I believe was being released in our apartment. And then alternately to the front door of our apartment building to try and get to the roof to show I'm willing to jump, to kind of prove my loyalty to this thing I'm up against. And my husband's like physically faster and stronger than me. Thank goodness. So, that's why I could imagine things ending differently if he wasn't there the entire time.

BROWN: Yes. And I'm going to say six-week appointment post baby. In that state of emergency, it felt real. I mean, I imagine if a doctor had asked you in that moment, if you felt like you weren't yourself, would you have realized you were in an emergency state? CLIFFEL: No, no, not at all, because that reality was my new reality. So, I believed that everybody was out to get me. And I was actually trying not to let my husband know that I was kind of wise to him, that he was on their side. So, you know, before it became like a physical battle and he realizes like she is not well, I had been kind of plotting inside my mind for hours. How do I get out of this apartment with these kids in December, you know, with an eight-month-old and a two-year-old and trying not to let my husband know that I knew they were all out to get us because I wanted a better chance to escape? So, no, I wouldn't have been able to see it because it was my new reality.

BROWN: So, did you feel like the medical profession professionals you were seeing had a firm grasp on what you were experiencing postpartum?

CLIFFEL: No, I did it. I don't. I actually wasn't told that I experienced postpartum psychosis until two months after I got out of the hospital.

[11:45:00]

And only through some self-advocacy, I said, I want to see a psychiatrist who is a mom, because I felt like what had happened to me was tied up in me being a mom of two young children. And that landed me in the chair of a fellow in reproductive psychiatry who said to me when I told her what happened, she's like, oh, you had postpartum psychosis. And to be honest, it was like, oh, you know, I don't know. It was like a giant deep breath, like, oh, my goodness.

And the beginning of me understanding like, hey, you're not a shameful mess, you know, who's unfits a mother, which was sort of this narrative that I was telling myself after being involuntarily committed to Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital to making that turn to like, no, you were sick.

And, you know, as I said, it's a known about illness that we can treat. There's no other period within a person's life where we can predict that somebody is going to have a mental health crisis, mental health issue, as in the postpartum. And it's like it's almost like we have this crystal ball. We know one in five women are going to struggle with a mental health condition. And I don't know about you, but even if you don't have a specific mental health condition, it's still really hard to bring in a new baby as a parent.

And yet we don't actually build a proactive system that's designed to support women and families after the baby is born. It's sort of like you're checked on repeatedly before birth. And then it's like, OK, see you see in six weeks, you know, and it's not OK.

BROWN: Fill out this form and -- yes.

CLIFFEL: Yes.

BROWN: Yes. No, I think you make a really important point there. And I'm just wondering, once you were admitted to the psychiatric hospital, what happened from there? I mean, how did they treat you? How were you able to come back to and realize what had just happened? CLIFFEL: I mean, no. I mean, I still think I've been captured, right. So, I think people are out to get me. Meanwhile, the NYPD and an ambulance come to get me. But I don't think that the NYPD and an ambulance, I think I've been captured.

So, I wake up in Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital. I was sedated in the ER. But I think I've been captured. Maybe there's a chance my kids are still alive. So, I try to escape. You know, I tried to escape a few times. And, of course, I got met, thankfully, with shots in the arm. They sort of treated me like the threat I was to myself at that time.

But so, I don't actually start getting better until my husband, who I'm sending away at visiting hours because I think he's on their side. And I don't think he's like coming down from the Lower East Side to meet me. I think he's like watching me from a one-way mirror to see if I'll break. I send him away at visiting hours.

But one day he's just like got tears behind his eyes. He's like, trust me, Mac, there's no cult. You're in a mental health, you know, hospital in Manhattan. And it was some combination of that and just honestly being sort of knocked out and then coming to and feeling like I was sort of being gas lit in a situation that I started to comply and take the medication.

And so, actually a psychiatrist said something to me that was a turning point for me. She said, listen, if you stop trying to escape and behave, you can see your kids again. And I said to her, I need you to write that down. And she wrote it down. And first it may have been on a Post-it. And for me, that was like the beginning of like, OK. And then I started to willingly take the pills. And that helped me ground back into reality.

BROWN: Just it just makes me emotional thinking about what you went through with so many other moms have gone through. And it wasn't until after you left that you really got that diagnosis that you needed to understand your experience. And I think it's also important to note every postpartum experience can be different. Your second experience clearly was different from your first. And I think that's important to understand as well.

Meghan Clifford, thank you so much for coming on and having the courage to share that story.

CLIFFEL: Thanks so much for having me.

BROWN: And if you or anyone else, you know, who's watching right now is struggling with their mental health, the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is always available. Just call or text 988. We'll be right back.

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[11:50:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

BROWN: OK. Just a side note, that was one of my favorite songs growing up. And it gives you a little hint about this next segment.

Happening now, parts of the world are gearing up for the first total solar eclipse without Bonnie Tyler, who died last month, sadly. She topped the charts with total eclipse of the heart back in 1983, and we just can't even hear the words total eclipse without thinking of her.

In a few hours, the eclipse will plunge millions of people into darkness, crossing over Greenland, Iceland, Russia, and Spain. It will last for nearly two minutes, with the moon perfectly lined up with the sun. People have been lining up to find those special glasses to watch it safely. And we, of course, have complete coverage of this rare event.

CNN's Clarissa Ward is in Mallorca, Spain, directly inside the eclipse path. CNN's Isa Soares is in southwestern England, where they'll see a partial eclipse.

But, Clarissa, let's start with you. You are in the optimal location in one of my favorite places in the world, Mallorca, Spain. How is the mood over there? How will you be able to see it?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Pamela, this is a real hardship assignment, clearly. We're in one of the most beautiful places in the world, about to watch what they call a cosmic coincidence. It's the first time that Spain will see a total eclipse in a century.

And people have come from all over the world to be here. I don't know if you can see behind me. People have brought their own chairs. Some of them have brought picnic tables. Those folks are from Seattle.

Hi, guys. You getting pumped?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes.

WARD: Oh, yes. We have people also from California, from Hawaii. I've been talking to people from Russia, from Belgium, from Germany. Everybody is kind of hunkered down at the moment because it is incredibly hot here, Pam. It's about 87 degrees. And so, everyone wants to sort of nab themselves a good spot without dehydrating or, you know, collapsing with heat exhaustion.

But this is going to be the epic view where for just one minute and 32 seconds, we will have the privilege of watching as the moon eclipses the sun. Of course, reminder to all of our viewers who are fortunate enough to be watching this beautiful thing, wear your protective glasses.

We have ours. She says confidently. And then we have ours.

BROWN: There you go. Ready to go.

WARD: And we're ready to go.

[11:55:00] BROWN: OK. Can I just also say, Clarissa, I love you've been in so many war zones. You've covered so many serious stories. It is really nice to see you there, for a positive story, an uplifting story. And I'm glad you've got those glasses because you've got the front row seat there in Spain.

I want to head over to Isa now. What's the mood where you are? How have people been preparing for this partial eclipse there? And what are you expecting to see from your vantage point?

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: Hi. Hi, Pamela. Just as ecstatic as you would expect, even though it's only a partial eclipse. And don't take the 3 percent or 4 percent away from us because 96 percent, it is pretty staggering. People are starting to pile in to bring their deck chairs. They've got picnics. They've got water, plenty of water because it's warm. Not as warm as it was where Clarissa is in Mallorca, but people are ready. People are prepared just hours away to catch a glimpse of this amazing show of nature, right. Having front row seats this moment.

The last time there was a total eclipse, by the way, here in the U.K. was back in 1999. My producer remembers it, but he was also very disappointed that moment because it was cloudy. Not today. Take a look over my right shoulder. You can see it is a pristine, beautiful day as we expect, as Clarissa was saying, that celestial moment, that perfect alignment, Pamela, of the moon, the earth and the sun. And again, make sure you have your glasses. They're going for quite a bit in this part of the country.

BROWN: I imagine they're hard to come by now. All right, Clarissa and Isa, thank you both so much. Don't miss our live coverage of the total solar eclipse beginning today at 1:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Thank you all for joining us this morning. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning at 10:00 Eastern. I'll be on the arena later today as well at 4:00 p.m. Eastern. Inside Politics with Dana Bash starts after a quick break.

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