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The Situation Room

Interview With Flock Founder and CEO Garrett Langley; Luigi Mangione in Plea Negotiations?; Lindsay Clancy Breaks Down in Court. Aired 10:30a-11a ET

Aired August 13, 2026 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: That official goes on to say that the circumstances under which the sailor went overboard were not immediately clear, nor whether the sailor returned to duty or was evacuated from the ship.

We should also note, historically, this is the longest deployment on record for an aircraft carrier, given the lack of normal port visits.

In a statement to me, the U.S. official said: "We have not observed an increase in suicidal ideations or attempts aboard the ship. We take every service member's well-being seriously and have religious, medical, and mental health professionals available to assess and address concerns as they arise.

"Sailors go through normal transitions throughout a deployment cycle. Adapting to life at sea can be difficult, so we have learned how to provide resources and help sailors with these transitions. We are not experiencing an uptick in mental health issues aboard the Abraham Lincoln."

That official also said that there are many resources available to sailors, including five chaplains, a psychologist, a clinical social worker, behavioral technicians, a prevention counselor, and a therapy dog named Captain Fathom.

I actually met Captain Fathom when I was on board there embedded last month.

Up next, I'm going to speak with a reporter from "The Military Times" who is new reporting on multiple USS Abraham Lincoln sailors who tried to go overboard, according to this reporter, as well as the CEO of Stop Soldier Suicide. And we will also hear from the sailors themselves, those who I spoke to on the Abraham Lincoln, just about the psychological toll of what it's like to be out at sea for so long.

And happening now: Court has resumed in Lindsay Clancy's murder trial. Yesterday, the judge ordered recess after Clancy broke down sobbing during testimony about one of her children's injuries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANAN BUCKINGHAM, MASSACHUSETTS STATE'S ATTORNEY: And what about injuries?

JUDGE WILLIAM SULLIVAN, MASSACHUSETTS SUPERIOR COURT: All right, counsel, could -- we're going to take a break at this time, all right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Court, all rise. Jurors, close your notebooks. Place them on the chairs, please. This way, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Clancy, a former nurse, is accused of killing her three children. She has pleaded not guilty. Her defense is arguing she is not criminally responsible because she was in the midst of a psychotic episode that they say was prompted by postpartum mental illness.

So let's go live now to CNN's Jean Casarez, who has been closely following this trial.

Jean, tell us more about this dramatic moment in court and what we're expecting today.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What happened was, the -- there were two medical examiners, and the first one was discussing the ligature strangulation of Cora, 5 years old, and how that four pounds of pressure had to have been applied around her neck and the ligature furrows that remained.

And that is when this outburst, this wailing in court happened. And I do know from pretrial hearings that two nurses are positioned in the courtroom if she needs them at all. And I saw two women go up to her, and one had a hold of her wheelchair just wanting to get her out of that courtroom.

And, of course, court emergency break, and so she was wheeled out of that courtroom. But it actually did resume. It took some time, but the testimony was concluded. Now, this morning, a certified forensic examiner is on the stand that looked at the computer belonging to Patrick Clancy.

And he found that, in August of 2022, there was a search on Tom Hall. Now, he's better known as Tom T. Hall, was a country singer, very famous country singer, and went to Spotify. Someone looked up the tune "How I Got to Memphis" and then went to a Google search on Tom T. Hall, went to a Wikipedia search, clicked on death.

Under death, it showed he committed suicide, and then began to search even farther. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYLE PAVAO, MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE: Now got to the original artifact I had located, which was the Wikipedia suicide method, but it directed it directly to the shooting section of that page.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you tell what time it was accessed?

PAVAO: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What time was that?

PAVAO: At 9:45 a.m.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, 9:45 a.m., the suicide methods page was accessed, correct?

PAVAO: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you use the Wayback Machine to see what it would look like on August 23, 2023?

PAVAO: I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Defense on cross-examination said, do you realize that, earlier that morning, Patrick Clancy's Gmail account was actually signed into? And, furthermore, were there any searches at all for killing someone else? The answer was, no, there was not.

BROWN: Jean Casarez, thank you.

Well, new this morning, possible plea deal? Sources tell CNN federal prosecutors and Luigi Mangione, the man accused of killing the UnitedHealthcare CEO in 2024, are in the midst of negotiations, but that the situation is very fluid. A hearing is set for tomorrow with the judge overseeing the federal case.

[10:35:13]

Mangione is also facing state charges in New York.

So, joining us now to discuss this is former federal prosecutor Berit Berger.

So, Berit, this hearing that's expected to take place tomorrow comes in response to the federal prosecutor's joint request for a conference with the judge. Sources say plea talks could be discussed, among other issues.

Just walk us through, if you would, how these conferences typically work and what could come of tomorrow's hearing.

BERIT BERGER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes.

So, at this point, we don't really know what to expect for tomorrow. I think, if there was going to be a potential plea, the judge would really want to make sure that he had a copy of the plea agreement, that he knew everything that was going to be included as part of the plea negotiations here.

If there was to be a potential plea, there would be a pretty significant colloquy between the judge and Mangione to make sure that Mangione understood what he was giving up by pleading guilty, that he understood all of the terms of the agreement, that there was no side agreements, before any plea would actually be taken.

BROWN: CNN previously reported about past plea negotiations. What kind of deal might Mangione's attorneys be looking for here?

BERGER: Yes.

So I think it's unlikely that he would get a deal in the way that we typically think of a deal being some sort of reduced sentence. I think if he was going to be pleading guilty to these federal charges, it would be pretty strategic for him, because it would allow him the potential to sort of resurrect this argument that he had in state court that the state proceedings should be barred because of double jeopardy.

I think it's very unlikely that the federal officials would be cutting him any sort of a deal that would enable him to have anything other than a very significant, if not life sentence here. Usually, at this point in the prosecution, at least in federal court, defendants are pretty much expected to plead to the top count in the indictment for Mangione.

That would be the stalking charge resulting in death. So, I don't think we should be anticipating something that gets him off the hook. This could just be a way for him to resolve those federal charges for the strategic advantage of making this double jeopardy argument in state court.

BROWN: So, if Mangione ultimately agrees to a potential plea deal with federal prosecutors, how could that impact the state case?

BERGER: Yes, it's a really interesting question.

So, as people tend to think about double jeopardy, they think this is something that the Constitution says you can't be charged for the same crime twice, which is pretty much true.

However, the Supreme Court has said that state charges and federal charges, because they come from different sovereigns, they can usually proceed at the same time. New York, however, is a little different. New York offers a little bit more protection to defendants.

So, under New York law, you can say that something is double jeopardy if the offense has already been -- if you have already been prosecuted for that. So, New York's rules are a little bit more unsettled. People may remember there was a lot of discussion about this back in 2019 with respect to Paul Manafort.

Some of those loopholes have been closed, but it's far from settled right now in New York whether a federal plea would completely bar the state from going forward. Certainly, Alvin Bragg's office will make the argument that this is a very different harm that the state charges are trying to prevent here, it's a different crime, they're a different sovereign, so they should still be allowed to go through.

But there will certainly be motion practice about this if indeed he does plead guilty to the federal charges. BROWN: All right, we will see.

Berit Berger, thanks so much.

And happening now: Nick Reiner has been indicted by Los Angeles grand jury on murder charges of the killing of his parents. Director Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner. This step moves the case closer to a trial. The newly unsealed indictment alleges Nick Reiner was lying in wait. That means he was waiting and hiding from the victims before attacking them.

This could make him eligible for the death penalty, but there is no indication yet whether prosecutors plan to pursue that. He has pleaded not guilty.

And coming up: Flock camera is rolling out new controls amid growing scrutiny and fears around police misuse of this widely used tool. The company's CEO joins us next to discuss the changes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:43:35]

BROWN: Turning now to a SITUATION ROOM special report.

The law enforcement technology company Flock is rolling out brand-new safety controls. You may have seen this technology in your neighborhood. The move comes amid growing concerns about surveillance and allegations that police are misusing the nationwide network of cameras.

Those cameras take images of cars' license plates and other characteristics to feed into a database. Police departments then contract with Flock in the hopes of solving crimes. But some individuals accuse law enforcement of abusing the information to invade their privacy.

Criminal court documents, for example, reveal that one Milwaukee officer secretly used Flock to learn a romantic partner's location more than 100 times. I will speak shortly to one woman who alleges her ex relied on the technology to stalk her.

Joining us now is the founder and CEO of Flock, Garrett Langley.

Thanks for coming on the show.

So what are these new safety features, and how will they address these concerns that are motivating some cities to alter or suspend their Flock contracts altogether?

GARRETT LANGLEY, FOUNDER AND CEO, FLOCK: Yes. Well, thank you for having me.

I start by saying that police abuse is something that I think is unacceptable to everyone. It erodes the trust of a community, and it's horrible to hear of any abuse of our system. And I think what's important to note is, this problem's existed far before Flock started. I started this company nine years ago.

[10:45:01]

And about four months ago, we developed a new tool called Audit Assistance that detects abnormal behavior. We helped solve north of a million crimes last year. So we know what normal criminal investigations look like. And now with this tool, any time we detect abnormal behavior, that police officer will be proactively locked out of the system.

And our point of view is challenging kind of the rest of the industry to do the same and follow our lead and curb what is a problem that's just not often talked about.

BROWN: Can you just talk a little bit more about that? Because you say it existed before Flock was created. Why wasn't more action taken sooner then?

LANGLEY: It's a great question.

I mean, I think, if you look at a place like California, I think they detected over 7,000 potential abuses of their state DMV database. And what I would tell you is that, historically, these audit logs existed, right? When I started the company, we had an audit log. Every action an officer takes is logged.

But when you have a police department with 1,000 officers, that audit log is just too big. And so you're performing a temporary spot check. Historically, it is the victim that has to report the abuse. But now, with this tool, we can detect the abnormal behavior. We can alert an administrator, and we can do that in real time, and not 30 days or even, God forbid, a year later.

BROWN: So what do you say to people out there who feel they have been victimized by Flock's technology -- as I mentioned, I'm going to speak to a woman after this -- and don't trust that these changes really will protect them going forward? What's your message?

LANGLEY: The short message would be, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that the system has failed you. I'm sorry that you no longer trust the police department that's job is to protect you.

And, for me, I -- we believe at Flock that everyone has a right to feel safe. And whether you have a badge or you don't, we don't believe that committing a crime is acceptable in this country. And so, for us, safety is a fundamental right, no different than clean water and the same electricity.

And so I am so sorry to hear of her situation, and I hope it never happens again and definitively not with our product.

BROWN: Do you take accountability as well? I know you're talking about the police departments having abused their privileges here, but does Flock take accountability?

LANGLEY: I think the whole -- the whole industry does. We have an obligation to make everyone feel safe, and that starts with trust.

You know, I was in an Ohio town not too recently speaking with a woman, and I was trying to understand why she didn't like Flock. And, as I kept asking her more and more questions, I eventually realized it was not about the camera. It was about trust. She didn't trust the police system. She didn't trust the police department.

And as I better understood why and was kind of listening exercise, I realized we had an opportunity to do more. And my hope is that not just Flock, but our peers in the industry and state regulators, wake up to this problem and also start increasing the penalties for a violation of the power that we entrust in law enforcement.

Today, it's more often than not simply a termination. And I think the offense should carry criminal charges.

BROWN: So, as you just said, you're calling on state regulators to mandate more accountability from police. You mentioned state charges. What specifically needs to happen on that front beyond potential charges?

LANGLEY: Yes, I mean, so, if you look at it today, none of these systems have auditing. The reason why we're talking about Flock today is because we have built a tool that demands accountability and transparency. There are many other systems that law enforcement relies on.

State regulators should step up and demand that any police technology carries the same level of accountability, the abnormal detection, the immediate lockout in the case of abuse, and reporting that's happening on either a monthly or quarterly basis to the men and women we elect to hold the police accountable to our communities.

These are simple things that we can change. And my hope is that, in our conversation today and my ongoing conversations with state regulators, that these are changes we can see in the coming months.

BROWN: How confident are you that Flock can actually rebuild public confidence in its technology with these new safety features? Do you have any concerns that the damage is already done and that action may be coming too late?

LANGLEY: Yes, I mean, look, last year alone, we helped solve over a million crimes, detected over 10,000 missing people.

I think about in my own hometown in Atlanta, just last week, there was a stolen car with a 2-year-old in the back seat. She was safely returned to her parents in less than an hour. I'm not going to rebuild trust by saying something. I'm going to rebuild trust by continuing to do the good work this company's done for the last decade.

[10:50:00]

So, we remain committed to this belief that we can build a society where kids want to grow up feeling safe and having privacy.

BROWN: Garrett Langley, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming on.

LANGLEY: Thank you.

BROWN: So, for more perspective on the story, I want to bring in Marci Bakely. She alleges that her ex-boyfriend stalked her and her family by misusing Flock camera technology.

Marci, I want to dive deeper into your story, but just I'm curious what your reaction is to what you just heard there from the founder and CEO of Flock. He apologized to people in your situation and said that one thing regulators should do is consider charges for individuals who misuse Flock. What do you think about that?

MARCI BAKELY, ALLEGES EX-BOYFRIEND STALKED HER USING FLOCK CAMERA: While I do agree with it, and it's kind of hard to -- well, I should say it's hard to prosecute.

I did file police reports. For a while, when it's the chief of police that might be the one pursuing you, it kind of gets daunting, because who would you file a complaint against? You know, who would you go to with that information?

So, I was listening to how he wanted the kids to feel safe. You know, prime example, the other day, my sister -- or -- my sister -- I'm sorry. My daughter and I were driving down a road, saw a Flock camera pointed at a pool. I'm not sure how children are supposed to feel safe when they're at a public swimming pool and a Flock camera is directly pointed at the pool.

So I hope they do find some measures. You know, it's really hit or miss with the safety issue. I can see the benefit of it if it's used properly. However, in the wrong hands, without anything flagging misuse, it really -- it's tough to decipher how you really feel, especially when you have been subjected to pretty much stalking the past year-and-a-half.

BROWN: Tell us more about that, what your experience was.

BAKELY: So, yes, I was just a general person. We don't know about Flock, never heard about Flock.

And so my ex-boyfriend had mentioned he looked me up one day. He was very specific in a town I'd gone to, and I didn't think about it at the time. You know, I thought maybe I told him that I'd gone there. And couple days later, I did ask, how did you know I was in this town?

And in a text message, he admitted, I used the Flock camera. And me, just a general citizen, no idea what a Flock camera is, never even heard of it. So, I asked. I said, what what's a Flock camera? And that's where he proceeded to tell me it's something that the police department uses to track license plates.

He assured me he did it the one time. And wanting to believe him, I let it go. Actually, I let it go for about a year until, a year later, we're not speaking at this point, but suddenly he's knowing where I'm -- what towns I'm visiting again. So that's what prompted me. I did try to file a restraining order. And

the judge did say, because I had the evidence of him admitting to using it to track me, that had I had gone in 2024, he could have probably done something about it, as in granting the TPO. However, I had no actual current proof of being stalked.

BROWN: So...

BAKELY: So he's actually the one that advised me to go to sheriff's office.

BROWN: Wow.

First of all, I wonder how you respond to the new safety features that we just heard from the CEO that would beef up the Audit Assistance tool to catch rogue law enforcement officers like your ex, what you just described.

BAKELY: I mean, you can all -- the data is only good -- as good as the people that input it.

You know, if the safety features work, if it can identify and maybe report to the right authority who might be abusing the system, if they do get locked out, but what safeguards -- if you're locked out, OK,well, what exactly do you need to regain access? What exactly do you need to input this in the system?

You know, when I looked up the justification for searching my plates, it was always code either 5 or 005, which, if I understand correctly, that's the code for either a missing and endangered person or possibly a criminal. So, that's a really wide scope of the person you're searching for.

So, maybe to have more targeted justifications, having a missing or endangered person separate from a potential suspect.

BROWN: Yes.

BAKELY: That really -- it's a very broad subject, you know? I'm either missing or I'm a suspect. Which is it?

[10:55:05]

BROWN: I wonder, Marci, you respond to the argument that what happened to you and others with similar experiences was merely a bad apple abusing this technology and that the technology itself isn't the problem here, it's the bad apples. What do you say to that?

BAKELY: You know, it's hard to disagree with that. That's just like saying gunmakers are responsible for people killing people using the gun to shoot someone.

I'm not necessarily opposed to having Flock cameras. I do think there needs to be much more safeguards. The fact that my daughter was 16 and she was being actively stalked by him, my ex-boyfriend as well, not only was I being stalked, which, OK, I'm an adult, but when I find out my minor daughter is also being stalked by the same person, I feel maybe there do need to be better safeguards.

I can't necessarily blame Flock, because, with all things in the wrong hands, it can be used as -- weaponized against just the general public like myself.

BROWN: OK.

BAKELY: So, I'm still confused on how I feel about the situation.

BROWN: And that's fair.

BAKELY: It really -- myself, I didn't mind so much, but finding out my daughter...

BROWN: Yes.

BAKELY: ... that just leads me to, why were you looking for a child?

BROWN: Yes. No, understandably. That just takes it to another level, right?

BAKELY: Yes, absolutely.

BROWN: And it's understandable you don't quite know how you feel about it and just the complexities around it.

But we do appreciate you coming on, Marci, to share your story. Thank you so much.

BAKELY: Thank you. I really appreciate you having me.

BROWN: And here's what's coming up all new at the top of the hour.

Two pilots are dead after their military helicopter crashed in a field in Texas. Now investigators are working to figure out what went so horribly wrong.

And demanding answers, Dick Cheney's cardiologist is raising concerns about President Trump's health in a new op-ed. Doctor Jonathan Reiner joins us to discuss all new next hour.

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