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The Situation Room
FBI Director Kash Patel Faces Senate Judiciary Committee; FBI Director Patel Questioned About Epstein Investigation. Aired 10-10:30a ET
Aired September 15, 2026 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): -- for applicants who have been engaged in bestiality, not victims of bestiality, applicants who have engaged.
[10:00:06]
Do you disagree with that?
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: Applicants who have engaged in bestiality means they were victims of bestiality because they were forced to do so. And at this FBI, we are not going to criminalize and prevent victims from serving the United States of America and the premier law enforcement agency in the world.
They did that before. I eliminated the bureaucracy that prevented these great Americans from serving or at least being considered from serving, and I'm going to continue to do that.
DURBIN: Turned it upside down.
So, on the Epstein files, do you believe the files contain no meaningful evidence of additional wrongdoing by others who were not charged so far?
PATEL: The Epstein files. 3.5 million pages have been released by this administration. By the prior administration, zero pages were released. This Department of Justice has investigated those files, and we've encouraged individuals to continuously come forward with credible information. We will always investigate victims of human trafficking, as you have seen by the fact that we have arrested over 5,000 child predators and human traffickers, which is the largest number in an eighteen-month span.
So, if you want to keep talking about the Epstein files, go ahead. This FBI will always investigate individuals as we have done.
DURBIN: So, you just missed one important point. You may remember it. Congress had to pass a law requiring the disclosure of the Epstein files. We had to wait until a woman was elected to Congress that gave us the necessary votes in the House to discharge the bill and force a vote in the House on the release of the Epstein files. This was not volunteered by the Trump administration. It took a law to force them to do it.
PATEL: You could have passed that law in the Biden administration. You didn't.
DURBIN: Yes, sure. Well, let me tell you, you could have come --
PATEL: You had both majorities then.
DURBIN: You could have come up with a better explanation than that, that's for sure.
Let me ask you about a specific case of corruption, since you've made some statements about fraud and corruption. You've touted the Trump administration and FBI success in cracking down on fraud and corruption. At a press conference in June, you stated, you should take a look at what leadership from the White House and President Trump's prioritization to go after and combat fraud looks like. Fraud is no longer being tolerated. It's not being put up with.
Recent reports, Mr. Patel, have revealed that Corey Lewandowski, while he was at the Department of Homeland Security, approached senior officials from Qatar and UAE, offering to represent them on the side in issues that fell under DHS purview.
Director Patel, was the FBI aware of Corey Lewandowski's effort to sell access to government services for personal gain before this report was published?
PATEL: Not as far as I'm aware. And as to your work on fraud that we are doing, we are the first FBI to capture the six most wanted fraudsters in just three months. Over $2 dollars worth of fraud in Americans was taken from us.
DURBIN: Let's go back to my question. Has the FBI initiated any investigation into these allegations regarding Mr. Lewandowski?
PATEL: I would refer you to DHS. He was a DHS employee.
DURBIN: So, the FBI -- you can't say that the FBI has invested any investigation into this allegation?
PATEL: I'm not going to comment on that.
DURBIN: Well, I can understand that. I yield, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA): For the benefit of people who wonder when we're going to call on you on the Republican side, it'll be Kennedy, Blackburn, Schmidt, and then it'll be on the Democrat side. The first three will be Whitehouse, Klobuchar, Blumenthal. Senator Kennedy?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Director I've got a couple of questions here. We have -- and I'm really trying to understand, because I listened to the exchange between you and Senator Durbin, and I've read a few news accounts and I'm confused. The FBI has qualifications to be an FBI agent. Is that correct?
PATEL: Yes. We've increased those qualifications and standards. KENNEDY: Pull that mic closer to you.
PATEL: We've increased the standards and qualifications.
KENNEDY: Okay. But you have qualifications?
PATEL: Yes, sir.
KENNEDY: Now, you recently changed them. Is that right?
PATEL: Some of them.
KENNEDY: Some of them. And why did you do that?
PATEL: We changed the bureaucracy. Because when you first applied to the FBI, this is the most important example I can give, any position, special agent, intel analyst, support staff, you had to wait 100 days because of bureaucratic waste before the FBI contacted you again.
And what that meant was, people who wanted to be employed by the FBI were finding jobs with other law enforcement agencies because they couldn't afford to wait around anymore.
KENNEDY: Okay. So you're going to do it quicker?
PATEL: Yes.
KENNEDY: Okay. But what about the actual substantive qualifications that have been reported? What changes did you make there?
PATEL: We require you to do a pull-up if you want to be an FBI agent.
KENNEDY: I understand.
[10:05:00]
But you know what I'm getting at. I'm trying to understand, Mr. Kash.
Before the FBI made these changes, there were certain things that disqualified you from being an FBI agent. And you -- not you, but the agency said we're no longer going to allow these things, this behavior, to disqualify you. What were the things you changed?
PATEL: Simply that if you were a victim of some of these vicious crimes and you wanted to serve this country, the FBI is now, for the first time ever, considering your application and not disqualifying you.
KENNEDY: Victim of what? Give me the example.
PATEL: Prostitution, bestiality, crimes like that, traffickers.
KENNEDY: Okay. So, if you were -- it's not if you frequented a prostitute, it's if you were a prostitute?
PATEL: If you were, yes, the victim, forced into it. KENNEDY: Okay.
What about the bestiality?
PATEL: Same thing, because the regs wrote it up in a fashion before I arrived that addressed prostitution, bestiality, and trafficking. They were there before I got there.
KENNEDY: Yes, but tell me what it said before.
PATEL: It automatically disqualified any individual who participated on either side of it. Obviously, we are never going to hire the criminal that engaged --
KENNEDY: This side of what? The bestiality?
PATEL: Yes.
KENNEDY: So, you disqualified the animal?
PATEL: Well, I don't think we -- we have great canines, but we're not going to disqualify --
KENNEDY: I understand. I'm trying to understand why you did this. Have you -- this is not directed at you, Mr. Director, and I understand the game. People try to make you look bad. We do the same thing when the other party's in office. And all of this stuff has really hurt the FBI. It's really hurt the FBI.
So, I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. Why would you, in light of the context and what we're going through, and we're having a tough time attracting agents, good quality agents we all can trust, because so many people, fairly or unfairly, think that in order to be an FBI agent now, your political point of view matters? Why would you even get into bestiality?
PATEL: We are not into bestiality, but a lot of these individuals --
KENNEDY: I know you're not, but you changed you changed the --
PATEL: But I'm trying to explain it.
KENNEDY: Hang on. You changed the qualifications and mentioned bestiality. So, if Joe participated in bestiality, not as the animal, but as the human, don't you think he ought to be qualified, disqualified?
PATEL: If he voluntarily did it, sure. But if he was trafficked into it, then he should be considered.
KENNEDY: Okay, how do you involuntarily do it?
PATEL: In a lot of these cases, when human traffickers, who are some of the worst individuals on planet Earth, they don't just traffic you for prostitution, they traffic you for degrading acts of all kind, and they force you into that type of conduct. And some of these individuals would go on to be law enforcement officers who qualified to be law enforcement officers and later applied to the FBI.
KENNEDY: I mean, this didn't -- these changes didn't start with you, did they?
PATEL: No.
KENNEDY: Somebody came to you and recommended?
PATEL: Yes.
KENNEDY: Yes. And when you saw bestiality, I say this with respect, the person who recommended it, why didn't you just say, what planet did you parachute in from? Why do I want to lead with --
PATEL: Well, that was my initial response --
KENNEDY: Why do I want to lead with my chin and get into bestiality?
PATEL: That was my initial response, Senator. But they then explained to me and showed me cases in which people were forced into it and had applied to the FBI, and so I thought they should be considered. It's not an automatic disqualification. That's all.
KENNEDY: Okay. All right, I think I understand. But you're not telling us today that if a human being had sex with an animal, that they can still be an FBI agent.
PATEL: No.
KENNEDY: Are you?
PATEL: No.
KENNEDY: They can't be, can they?
PATEL: They cannot.
KENNEDY: In fact, they ought to be in jail, right?
PATEL: They all are.
KENNEDY: Yes. Well, okay. Don't you think -- no, I don't want to lead you. Yes, I do. Don't you think we ought to get rid of this concept of special purpose employee --
[10:10:00]
PATEL: At the FBI?
KENNEDY: Everywhere?
PATEL: I can't speak for the rest of the government, but I don't think the FBI has any special purpose in place.
KENNEDY: Yes, but I want your opinion. All you're doing is inviting trouble. PATEL: My opinion for the FBI is we don't have them.
KENNEDY: Would you have them? Do you think it's a good idea or a bad idea?
PATEL: I don't -- well, when you refer to special purpose employee, I don't know what you mean. When --
KENNEDY: I'm talking about somebody who is not a full-time federal employee but they're working for the people as a federal employee, but they're not subject to the conflicts of interest rules.
PATEL: Oh, we don't have any of those. Everybody that works at the FBI --
KENNEDY: Yes, but we do through, in the federal government, don't we?
PATEL: I can't speak for the other agencies, sir.
KENNEDY: Sure we do. And that's what happened over at Homeland Security. Why do we want to do this? Why don't we just get rid of them?
PATEL: You'd have to talk to DHS. I can't speak about --
KENNEDY: I'm talking to you. I want your opinion. You're the director of the FBI.
PATEL: I'm not able to give an opinion for the rest of the government, just how we operate at the FBI.
KENNEDY: All right. Tell me -- final question, then I'm going to yield back. No, I'm not. Are you involved -- is the FBI involved in the investigations at Homeland Security?
PATEL: Which ones, sir? Sorry.
KENNEDY: The ones with respect to any alleged misconduct at senior levels.
PATEL: If it's referred to us by DHS and it comes to the department, then yes.
KENNEDY: But how are you involved?
PATEL: We're involved. They always reach out and ask for our assistance in collecting information and evidence, and so we participate.
KENNEDY: Okay, all right. Tell me about this -- the agent, Giardina. Is that how you say his name?
PATEL: Yes, sir.
KENNEDY: Who is he? Is he there? Is he gone?
PATEL: All I can say on that is he --
KENNEDY: What are the allegations with respect to him?
PATEL: He's no longer there, and it's, as been publicly reported, an ongoing investigation, so I really can't comment on any of those details.
KENNEDY: Okay. What did he do? Why is he no longer there? Was he fired?
PATEL: He violated the FBI standards and code of conduct.
KENNEDY: So, you fired him?
PATEL: Yes, sir.
KENNEDY: Okay. And he's being investigated.
PATEL: Per public reporting.
KENNEDY: Sir?
PATEL: Per public reporting, I can tell you.
KENNEDY: You can't tell me? You can't talk about it? You'd have to drown me in the Pacific if you told me.
PATEL: I would never do that, Senator.
KENNEDY: I understand. Okay, I got it. But it is being addressed.
PATEL: Yes, sir. Okay.
KENNEDY: I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
GRASSLEY: Thank you, Senator Kennedy.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, you've been listening to FBI Director Kash Patel, facing some questions there from the Senate Judiciary Committee. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll continue to monitor this when we return.
Stay with us.
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[10:15:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news we're following right now, the FBI director, Kash Patel, is testifying up on Capitol Hill. He's being questioned by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, the Democrat, right now about Jeffrey Epstein and other issues. I want our viewers to listen in.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI): Has there been any investigation by the FBI into those Epstein-related suspicious activity reports? PATEL: So, the SARs that you're referring to are a tool in which the Treasury Department initiates an investigation based on information produced by the banking system. And so any suspicious activity reports go first to the United States Treasury. And if there's something that they find, they refer it to us.
WHITEHOUSE: So there's been no referral?
PATEL: I'll have to go back and check.
WHITEHOUSE: And the FBI can't look into suspicious activity reports on its own?
PATEL: It's the province of the Treasury Department first.
WHITEHOUSE: First. But if they don't move for whatever reason, when you have Epstein suspicious activity reports that are reported to actually even relate to trafficking of girls, shouldn't that be enough to get the FBI to follow up on that?
PATEL: We'll follow up on any credible information, as I've said since day one on Epstein --
WHITEHOUSE: But you didn't with respect to these suspicious activity reports, correct?
PATEL: I'm not saying I didn't. I'm saying I'd have to check and get back to you.
WHITEHOUSE: Okay. Well, Mr. Chairman, we went like zero for answers from the FBI for our questions for the record from a year ago. So, I hope that if -- since the witness is now here under oath, said that he's willing to get back to me on that, I hope that I can have the chairman's support in getting answers when we ask that as a question for the record.
So, also related to Epstein, we have law enforcement authorities in Poland, Norway, and Latvia who have said that the department has not responded to requests for Epstein-related information in their investigations into Jeffrey Epstein and his network. And there's public reporting from the United Kingdom that they, too, have not been provided requested information.
This tends to go through your legats, and I would assume that the FBI was involved in processing those requests for Epstein information. What is the status of those requests, and why has the FBI not yet provided the requested Epstein information to your law enforcement coordinates in those four countries?
PATEL: Well, as you said, it's a request to the Department of Justice, so they can comment on the status of it.
[10:20:00]
If we assisted in any request for information, like we do all the time with our European partners, we produce relevant information that we are lawfully allowed to give and turn it over to the department to hand over to our partners. I don't know the status of each individual case.
WHITEHOUSE: Have you -- do you know whether any information has been provided to these four countries' law enforcement operations related to Jeffrey Epstein?
PATEL: I'm not familiar with the four countries you're talking about, what law enforcement they're talking about, but we always and routinely provide information.
WHITEHOUSE: Well, I guess we'll have to follow up on that. I had thought that investigations related to Jeffrey Epstein would be enough of a priority that when other sovereign nations ask you for Epstein- related information, and there's public reporting that you've failed to comply with their requests, that that would be something you would know about and not be caught by surprise by in a --
PATEL: Well, I'm not sure what public reporting you're talking about, but public reporting generally is inaccurate.
WHITEHOUSE: Well, this is authorities in Poland, Norway, and Latvia specifically. It's not just the public reporting.
Well, let's try something else then. Let's try the remaining pages of the FBI documents that have not yet been provided pursuant to the Epstein disclosure law. As you'll recall, the travel of this was that a woman testified to FBI agents that she had been both sexually and physically assaulted by Donald Trump around the ages of 14 to 15. There were FBI 302s that resulted from those investigations, from those interviews.
In the first cull, the only 302s that were released were the ones that did not mention Donald Trump. When the department was caught having held back the other ones, I think because bait stamps revealed their existence, the department then coughed up the 302s that did mention Donald Trump. But we still have 37 undisclosed pages that seem to be the contemporaneous FBI notes that would have formed the basis for the 302 summaries.
Am I accurate in suggesting that those 37 pages likely include the FBI contemporaneous notes from that interview, from those interviews?
PATEL: We have complied with the statute and the court orders and produced 3.5 million pages of documents for the first time ever. Investigators looked at the information in real time in the prior administration and made the determinations on referrals for prosecution and not.
We've also repeatedly stated if there's new information, we want everyone to come forward so that we can analyze that information as to what is and isn't remaining.
WHITEHOUSE: So, what are those 37 pages?
PATEL: I don't know what you're referencing. We've produced 3.5 million pages, and we will continue to comply with the --
WHITEHOUSE: Yes, but not these 37.
PATEL: You say there's 37 pages?
WHITEHOUSE: My time has expired. Thank you, Chairman.
GRASSLEY: DOJ alleged lack of transparency in the Epstein matter, yet when I raised concerns about the Biden administration about the FBI's mishandling of sexual misconduct by FBI agents, my Democratic colleagues largely stayed quiet. Moreover, my Democratic colleagues didn't raise a finger to investigate Hunter Biden's potential violation of the Mann Act regarding sex tra- trafficking.
Without objection, I introduce into the record 150 pages of Hunter Biden's text messages showing those potential violations of the law. So, I want to make very clear my Democratic colleagues can't have it both ways for political convenience. The fact is the administration has made more Epstein records public than anyone.
Senator Blackburn.
SEN. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R-TN): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And indeed, our Democratic colleagues do try to have it both ways, whether it is on Epstein or comments about safety in the country. And last year, we had a hearing with you director, where one of our Democratic colleagues railed about how you were making the country less safe.
And I just want to refute that because we can point to what you and the Memphis Safe Task Force have done in Memphis, Tennessee, that is making Memphis and Tennessee, and indeed the entire country, safer.
[10:25:11]
Now, we're coming up on one year of the Memphis Safe Task Force, and every day I get a report from the task force, and it shows where we are year-to-date. As you will see from this, we have had right at 13,000 arrests. We have apprehended over 1,400 known gang members. They are off the streets. They are locked up. They are being prosecuted. There are over 2,100 illegal firearms that have been recovered and removed from the streets. And thank goodness, you and the task force have located 189 missing children that were being held there in Memphis.
Now, these are not individuals that are guilty of lesser crimes. In the 29 arrests that were made just yesterday, here are some of the crimes: criminally negligent homicide, first degree murder, prohibited weapon machine gun, possession of a firearm while in possession of marijuana, and unlawful possession of a weapon.
This is all in a day's good work for the 30 federal agencies that are on the ground there working as a team, delivering for Memphians and --
BLITZER: We're going to continue to monitor Senator Marsha Blackburn's questions of Kash Patel, the FBI director.
We'll take a quick break, resume our special coverage right after this.
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[10:30:00]
