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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Results Coming In For Virginia Race Where Trump Seeks Payback; Kim Jong Un Rolls Out The Red Carpet, Gives Putin A Big Hug; MLB Hall Of Famer Willie Mays Dead At 93. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 18, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: But as they start to do more and more of these patients' trials, around the world, we're going to get that data. And I think it's going to offer a lot of hope. Not necessarily just new medications. But lifestyle changes alone--
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Right.
GUPTA: --leading to these changes.
COOPER: Sanjay, it's incredible. Thank you.
And if you're like me, and still have questions about this, as well as the latest in drugs to target Alzheimer's, you can submit your questions, using the QR code on screen. And Sanjay will join me, again later in the week, with some answers.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
It is primary night in America with results coming in right now, including a closely-watched Republican race in Virginia, where former President Donald Trump is out for revenge.
And a handshake between -- and a hug between two dictators that we are seeing here. New images that are coming in from President Putin in North Korea. We're also expecting to get new details from the summit of these two nuclear-armed strongmen.
And a behind-the-scenes look at Donald Trump and his time on "The Apprentice." The author, who sat with Donald Trump, for hours after he left the White House, is here tonight.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air, tonight, right now, the results are still coming in from several high-stakes primary races that are playing out across America tonight. And the big test is whether revenge is resonating with Republican voters.
There is one race in particular that is exposing divisions, serious ones, within the MAGA movement. That would be the race in Virginia's 5th Congressional District.
And Congressman Bob Good that you see here, he's the Chairman of the House Freedom Caucus. He's an ultra-conservative, who has supported Donald Trump's policies. And you might recall seeing him here, in New York, when he showed up to support Trump, during his criminal trial.
But unfortunately, for the gentleman from Virginia, Trump is very, very angry at him, despite how he rode in his motorcade, when he was here in New York. And it's all because Bob Good committed the cardinal sin of initially backing Ron DeSantis, in the GOP presidential primary, earlier this year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bob Good, who is actually bad for Virginia and who will stab you in the back like he did me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But it's not just Trump, who feels that way, as you heard him say there. He's been saying that Bob Good stabbed him in the back.
Former House Speaker, Kevin McCarthy, also wants payback, for Good's role, in kicking him, out of the Speaker's office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BOB GOOD (R-VA): We need a speaker, who will fight for something, anything, besides just staying or becoming speaker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, I should note, when I talked about those fractions in the MAGA movement, Good still has support from some big MAGA names, like Matt Gaetz, Byron Donalds, Trump's own former Chief White House Strategist, Steve Bannon.
But all of that may not matter because we are about to find out, tonight, just how strong Donald Trump's grip is on the Republican base, and if his opinion is the only one that matters.
This race pits Good up against the Trump-backed state senator in Virginia, John McGuire.
Those polls closed at 7 PM Eastern. And here's where the results stand right now. 66 percent of the vote is in. So, we still have more to come. But look how close this race is. You can see John McGuire, right now, has 50.6 percent of the vote. Bob Good is at 49.4 percent. Look how close those margins are. It is incredibly close.
As we were watching all of this tonight, this test of Donald Trump, who has endorsed the name you see there at the top, John McGuire, against Bob Good, the Chairman of the very influential House Freedom Caucus. My source, tonight, to help put these numbers into context that we are seeing here, as we were watching all of this, CNN's Senior Data Reporter, Harry Enten.
And, Harry, I mean obviously, this race is so close, right now, at this moment.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Razor. Razor-tight, my goodness gracious. You rarely -- you know, I get excited on nights like this, right, where you -- I watch these old videos, and I see how tight the races were in like election 2000. And then finally, we get a race, tonight, as tight as we have it right now.
COLLINS: Yes. And so, obviously, the question here is about Trump's endorsement, and how powerful that's ultimately going to be. Because really, there's basically no policy differences between these two Republicans, on anything substantive. But Donald Trump is backing one of them and not the other.
ENTEN: Correct. As you mentioned, the incumbent committed the cardinal sin of initially backing Ron DeSantis. How dare he? How dare he?
And you look at primaries, so far this season, and Trump's endorsement has been as good as gold. Before tonight, only one candidate, who he backed lost their primary. Look at that. 88 wins to one.
And I went back. I looked at 2022. I looked at 2020. I looked at 2018. More Trump-endorsed candidates are winning this year than in any year prior of at least as a percentage so far. So tonight is an ultimate test of Trump's power.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: Yes. And that's really interesting, because the other part is at lightning speed after Ron DeSantis got out of the race, Bob Good came out and did endorse Donald Trump. So, he did try to make up for it. Clearly, it didn't mean a lot to Trump.
But the other thing here that matters if Bob Good goes down is it's an incumbent being defeated.
ENTEN: It's exactly right. I feel like we have a power matchup here, right, between Trump's endorsement and the power of incumbency. And so far this year, incumbents have been winning all over the place. Look at this. Renominated, 228. Just one has lost, and that was to a fellow incumbent. So, you rarely ever see incumbents lose.
So this evening, we have this thing, where you see you incumbents rarely lose. And you see Trump-backed candidates rarely lose. One of those two powers is going to go down tonight. Which one? We'll have to wait and see.
COLLINS: OK. Harry, I have a question about a few other races for you.
ENTEN: Sure.
COLLINS: But standby, because I know you're watching all these numbers now.
ENTEN: Oh, you know I am.
COLLINS: We have a projection. We are going to make it here.
But we also have some context here of this big race in Virginia, that normally we would not be talking about. But because of the dynamics here that we just laid out, it matters. And we'll see what the implications of it are, what we can read from the results.
My political sources that are also here tonight, CNN's Senior Political Commentator, and former Republican Congressman, Adam Kinzinger.
CNN Political Commentator, and former White House Senior Policy Adviser under President Obama, Ashley Allison.
As well as CNN's Senior Political Commentator, Scott Jennings, who was also a Special Assistant to President George W. Bush, and a Senior Adviser to Mitch McConnell.
Adam Kinzinger, let me start with you, though.
Because in this race, in Virginia, Bob Good and John McGuire are both pitching themselves as the one who's in lockstep with Donald Trump. But there basically are no policy differences between the two of them. I mean, how are voters really supposed to make a decision here?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, in my mind, it's like, would you rather have dysentery or the flu? So, you got to pick that out. And ultimately, at least one of them is going to lose. That's the good thing.
Really, I mean, look, just from the raw politics of it, it does show the power of Donald Trump's endorsement.
But it also shows that Donald Trump never forgives you, especially if somebody that is more loyal to him (inaudible). And this is the point. This is how you build a cult. You do this. You make everybody scared to turn against you. And that's what you're seeing right now.
COLLINS: I mean, Scott, he does raise a good point there that Bob Good tried to kind of rectify his decision, to back DeSantis. We talked to him about it here. He rode in the motorcade with Trump. He came out, and endorsed him probably faster than we saw anyone else do it.
But what does it say about Trump's wrath, if you break with him, on even one thing?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Says he's a party boss. I mean, the thing about Donald Trump is that he has been the president. He's been the nominee of the party three times.
And he is a true party boss. And you can think that's good, or you can think that's bad. But at the end of the day, he's remade a political party in his image, and he likes to enforce discipline, inside of that political party.
And we've got an incredibly close race going on in Virginia. I don't know who's going to win. But if not, but for Donald Trump's intervention there, I suspect Good, would have been good. Everything would have been fine. And Trump intervenes. And all of a sudden, it's a real race.
And so, we'll see what happens. But I concur with what's been said this is the test of the power of Donald Trump. But the fact that it's even a race at all shows just what influence he has with primary voters.
COLLINS: Well, and the money pouring into this was also really notable. I think it was about $10 million from outside groups. I mean, John McGuire was fundraising quite well.
And Ashley, just from a political perspective, Bob Good, he's the first sitting -- if he goes down, he's the first sitting Chair in the House Freedom Caucus' decade-long history almost, to be defeated. And I wonder what this says also about the House Freedom Caucus tonight.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, for some time, the Tea Party, the Freedom Caucus, were the folks that really were able to pull the party to the right. And now, it seems that Donald Trump has a stronger hold on the Republican Party than that Freedom Caucus did at one point.
I will just say, though, that Donald Trump has endorsed many candidates that have won in primaries. But in 2022, he endorsed many candidates that were not as successful. So, he has a strong thumb on the scale in primary races, but not necessarily always evident in general election. So, not that this district is going to go Democrat. But it's something to also watch.
COLLINS: Well, and Congressman, what does it -- what does it say if Bob Good pulls this off, if he is able? I mean, because we're looking at how closely this is right now. John McGuire has a little bit of an edge on him at this moment. We'll see how that changes throughout the hour. But what does it say if Bob Good wins?
KINZINGER: I don't think it's going to say much because Bob Good will immediately salute Donald Trump, make up, will do everything he can to make up with Donald Trump over the next few years. It's really, I mean, from an actual policy of the country, it doesn't make a difference who wins there.
[21:10:00]
And the interesting thing. You mentioned $10 million spent in this race. Let's think about that. Two identical candidates, $10 million spent for one reason. Donald Trump. Because Bob Good did not have sufficient loyalty to Donald Trump. That's what it comes down to.
So, I don't think it's going to make a difference in the politics. But obviously, if Good goes down, Donald Trump will grow quite a bit.
COLLINS: Well, but Congressman, what about the Kevin McCarthy aspect of this, because that is also--
KINZINGER: Yes.
COLLINS: --a factor here, too.
KINZINGER: It is a factor. Kevin, it's all personal for him. He's going after Bob, which I would do if I was Kevin as well. And so, I think he hasn't had a great track record, and who he's going after. But this will obviously be a win for Kevin McCarthy, who has no political future.
So, I'm not sure the benefit of a win here. But it'll probably feel pretty good for him to be successful. If in fact McGuire pulls this off.
COLLINS: Yes. And Scott, can I ask you about something else that happened today, where Donald Trump, you know, he's on the campaign trail, he's in Wisconsin, a critical state for him.
He's still trying to clean up comments that he made behind closed doors to Republicans, about Milwaukee, where the Republican convention will be held, next month.
Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I love Milwaukee. I was the one that picked Milwaukee, I have to tell you.
(AUDIENCE CHEERS)
TRUMP: I was the one that picked it. These lying people that they say, oh, he doesn't like Milwaukee. I love Milwaukee. I said, you got to fix the crime. We all know that. You got to make sure the election is honest. But I'm the one that picked Milwaukee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, he's really going out of the way to say that he's the one who picked Milwaukee, after he was trashing Milwaukee, behind closed doors, and its crime rate, last week.
JENNINGS: Yes, good for him, because I think we're going to have a lot better time as Republicans, in Milwaukee than Democrats are going to have in Chicago.
When all is said and done with these conventions, I'll guarantee you, we're going to come out of the Republican convention, singing the praises of Milwaukee, and the Democrats are going to come out of Chicago thinking, why did we put this here? This was the worst idea we ever had.
And so, I'm glad he cleaned it up. It was good for him. It's a close race in Wisconsin. He needs all the good vibes he can get there.
COLLINS: We'll see how many good vibes there are.
Scott Jennings, Ashley Allison, Congressman Adam Kinzinger, great to have you all here. Thank you.
KINZINGER: You bet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We do have breaking news for you as CNN has now confirmed that the baseball giant, Willie Mays, has died.
Mays, of course, was one of the most exciting players in baseball history, a two-time Most Valuable Player Award winner, who got the Presidential Medal of Freedom. It was awarded to him by President Barack Obama, back in 2015.
Harry Enten is still here with me.
And Harry, I know we were just talking about these races. But I mean this breaking news that one of the biggest giants in baseball has died.
ENTEN: An ultimate hero. 660 home runs. My father was a huge New York Giant baseball fan, back in the day. He was a big fan of the 1951 squad. Willie Mays joined that club as a rookie, jumpstarted what was, in my opinion, the greatest comeback to win a pennant in history.
More than that, great centerfielder. 1954, Vic Wertz, right, going back over the shoulder catch, and then throwing it back towards the infield, helped the Giants win that ballgame, sweep that World Series, the last World Series they won in the City of New York.
A hero to everybody, a hero to my father, a hero to me. Came back to New York in 1972. Huge San Francisco Giant player. Just a giant of the game, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, and this is going to prompt so many just memories of seeing him, and also just how different the game is now, compared to, to when he was breaking into it, and what it looked like.
ENTEN: Completely true. He said that the way he learned to hit a curveball was he played stickball in the streets, and he -- the ball bounced, and that was how he learned to hit a curveball. Could you imagine a Major League Baseball player, today, saying I learned how to hit a curveball by playing stickball out on the streets? You wouldn't have heard of it.
And more than that, he was somebody, who came up through the Negro Leagues, right? Obviously, those stats have now been fully integrated, at least to the ability that we're able to do so, so far, into the Major League stats. He actually added a couple of hits, a few weeks ago, into his Major League stats. So, he's someone, who's linked to the game. He, I believe, was the last living member of the 1951 New York Giants, or the last living member of anyone who took part in the Shot Heard Round The World game, back in 1951, of course between the Dodgers and Giants game three of that playoff.
He is just somebody, who is linked to baseball history. He's definitely going to be missed by a lot of baseball fans, including myself.
COLLINS: And of course, you know the most important fact about him is that he was born in Alabama.
ENTEN: Of course.
COLLINS: And grew up playing in Birmingham as well.
And on that note, just to think of that life, and what you just laid out there, I do want to take a moment now, as CNN is confirming the news that Willie Mays has died.
CNN's Andy Scholes has a look back at the illustrious life that he did live, starting when he was born in Alabama.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR (voice-over): From the time he set foot in the Major Leagues, as a 20-year-old rookie for the New York Giants, in 1951, to his last days with the Mets, 22 years later, no one played like Willie Mays.
[21:15:00]
Born in Alabama, he earned the nickname the "Say Hey Kid" for his enthusiasm towards baseball. He played in 24 All-Star Games, was twice voted National League MVP, and slammed 660 homeruns to rank sixth on the All-Time list.
WILLIE MAYS, MLB HALL OF FAMER: When I got through the first hit off a one spawn (ph) New York was like my family. They embraced me, like my mother and dad says. And my dad says, when you go to New York, and if they slap you, you turn the other cheek. Because if you don't, they're going to shoot you.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)
MAYS: Yes?
SCHOLES (voice-over): Mays was as dominant in the field as he was at the plate, winning 12 Gold Gloves.
In Game one of the 1954 World Series, his over-the-shoulder catch was considered the key point in the Giants' shocking sweep of the Indians, and has gone down in history, as one of the game's most memorable catches. MAYS: People talk about The Catch, and I don't understand why because I didn't win anything, so then just cannot (ph) catch a ball. But when you find stuff like that, and it was furious, they had to pick a highlight, and they picked the, I guess, that one for the highlight.
SCHOLES (voice-over): In 1958, Mays made the move out West with the Giants and batted a career high 347. Seven years later, Mays had one of his best seasons, clubbing 52 homeruns, winning his second MVP award.
During the 1972 season, the 41-year-old was dealt back to New York, to play for the Mets. And what became the last at-bat of his career, Mays hit a game-winning single in the 12th inning of game two of the 1973 World Series, putting an exclamation point on a one-of-a-kind career.
But perhaps even greater than his performance, on the field, was the legacy he left off it. Playing his first Major League game, just four years after Jackie Robinson broke baseball's color barrier, Mays helped to carry the torch for future Black baseball players and athletes. And he inspired his community for generations to come.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A few years ago, Willie rode with me on Air Force One. I told him then what I'll tell all of you now. It's because of giants like Willie that someone like me could even think about running for president.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Joining me now, on this breaking news, is CNN Sports Analyst, Christine Brennan.
And Christine, I mean, just looking back at the course of his career, I mean, Willie Mays hit 660 home runs. He had 3,200 -- over 3,200 hits and 23 MLB seasons. I mean, he was someone, who was kind of the gold standard of he could hit, he could run, he could throw, he could really do everything out there on the diamond.
VOICE OF CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Well, that's right, Kaitlan, really the five-tool player, right, just had every skill.
And I know you're a big sports fan. And it was growing up, for me, I would play baseball with the boys in Toledo, Ohio. And it was Mickey Mantle, and it was Willie Mays. As little kids, you're at bat, and some kid was throwing the ball to you, and it was Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle that we were emulating, even as little kids.
And I think with Willie Mays, it's been mentioned, of course, he started in the Negro Leagues. The fact that he was such a star in New York, for seven years, and then expansion to the West Coast.
And so, he goes to San Francisco, and he plays for the San Francisco Giants. And that's when baseball was expanding across the country. And it is a Black man from Alabama, as you said, who is the face of the game. That was so extraordinary at that time in America. We're talking, of course, the late 50s, into the 60s, into the 70s. He comes back to New York to the Mets. That's where he finishes his career.
Both coasts, a giant of a player, one of the greatest of all time. And in fact, the players of his generation, Kaitlan, when they talk about the greatest player they ever saw, to a man, they mention Willie Mays.
COLLINS: Yes, and he just had such flair. He made the game look fun.
Christine Brennan, great to talk to you about his legacy. We'll be looking more at that, up here in a moment.
VOICE OF BRENNAN: Sure.
COLLINS: We are following this breaking news that Willie Mays has died. We are continuing to track that here.
Also following what we're seeing happening overseas, that dangerous alliance, as we are watching the first pictures and first images of President Putin's arrival in North Korea, and what they are planning next.
My inside source, tonight, a man who spent hours also with Donald Trump, as he relived his glory days during "The Apprentice."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:24:06]
COLLINS: North Korean leader, Kim Jong Un, rolling out the red carpet to welcome Russian president, Vladimir Putin, to Pyongyang, as he arrived, as you could see there, descending from his plane, greeting the Russian president with a hug, a sign of how the two leaders are closer than ever, as they are kicking off a two-day summit in the Hermit Kingdom.
Putin, of course, relies on the rogue nation for weapons, as he is fighting his war in Ukraine. And of course, the question is whether or not he uses this meeting to secure even more.
Would not be a dictator meet-up without some pomp and circumstance, as we can see here. Putin was actually handed a larger-than-life bouquet, just moments after he stepped off his plane. He and the North Korean dictator then were quickly whisked into a waiting limo.
And a major parade could begin at any moment, in North Korea, to honor that historic visit.
We are tracking it all closely, here tonight, with Sue Mi Terry, a former CIA analyst on North Korea.
And just right off the bat. I was there when Donald Trump met with Kim Jong Un, both times. So, I was watching the North Korean leader, because we don't always see him out in public often.
What did you make of that initial appearance from him?
[21:25:00] SUE MI TERRY, FORMER CIA NORTH KOREA ANALYST: My first reaction, looking at Kim Jong Un, was oof, he doesn't look too great to me. There was a time, when he lost a little weight, and he looked better.
So, my initial reaction was that he didn't look in terms of being healthy, because, his health is something that we always track anyway, because it's always a wildcard for North Korea. So, I don't know. But he didn't look that great to me.
COLLINS: Yes, obviously, we can't rely on good information.
MI TERRY: Right.
COLLINS: So sometimes, just visually looking at these world leaders, when we do see them in public is the only indication of how they're doing.
I mean, the obvious idea, you know here, is seeing North Korea also welcome the first world leader, to North Korea, in several years. And I wonder just what you are going to be watching, for in this visit, overall?
MI TERRY: Well, there's going to be a lot of pomp and circumstance. And there's already all the lights are on the north -- in the North Korean buildings, right? You would expect them to be off. But all of them are on, to show that there's a big city, it's vibrant city. And so, they're going to go all-out red-carpet treatment.
This is a big deal for Kim Jong Un to have Putin visit. It makes his country look like a normal country. He's a leader of, you know, he's a normal leader of normal country. So, this is a very big deal for him.
COLLINS: Yes. And we know why Putin is relying on Kim Jong Un, for munitions and weapons that he's been using in his war of attrition, in Ukraine. For Kim Jong Un, though, what would be the biggest prize that he could get out of the Russian leader?
MI TERRY: He has now sent 10,000 containers of artillery shells and munitions and ballistic missiles, so that's for food and fuel.
I believe that Kim Jong Un is looking for something much more significant. And that's sensitive military technology, to advance his already very formidable weapons of mass destruction, his missile program. So, he's looking for sensitive technologies.
We'll see if Putin will give it to Kim Jong Un. But I think that's what Kim Jong Un is going to be looking for.
COLLINS: And it doesn't seem like the Russian leader has very much leverage. I mean, and we kind of see this change in the balance of that relationship, from what it -- from what it used to be.
MI TERRY: It's a little sad that Putin has to rely on 198th ranked economy in the world, to help him in his war effort in Ukraine. But it is true that he goes through some 20,000 shells a day, right? So, he does need munitions. He knows he does need artillery shells. So, he's relying on North Korea to provide that.
COLLINS: Yes. Sue Mi Terry, we'll be watching it all closely, of course, and seeing if we do see images of this parade, tonight, and whatnot. So, thank you for joining us with your expertise.
MI TERRY: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next, more of the sad news that we were just tracking, in the last few moments, as we learned that the Hall of Famer, Willie Mays, has died.
Charles Barkley will join us, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:32:00]
COLLINS: More now on our breaking news, tonight, as the baseball great Willie Mays has died at 93. He was known as the "Say Hey Kid" for the enthusiastic way that he greeted others.
And for more on his life, and his legacy, and what it meant on and off the diamond, I want to bring in the Basketball Hall of Famer, Charles Barkley, who is joining me right now.
And Charles, I mean, just did you ever meet him? We always talk. You and I share our Alabama pride. Obviously, he was also born in Alabama. Did you -- were you ever able to meet Willie Mays?
VOICE OF CHARLES BARKLEY, BASKETBALL HALL OF FAMER: I actually met him probably close to 10 times, and it was always an honor and a privilege. Anytime I was around him, or the late great Hank Aaron, man, it was just pure joy being around royalty.
And you said something interesting. Most people don't even know they were from Alabama, because I don't even remember the time that last time Mr. Mays has been to Alabama. But when they talk about the greatest athletes from Alabama, he's on -- him and Hank are right at the top of that list. But their greatness and humility are what separated them from anybody else, to be honest with you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes. And just as people are going to be reflecting on his legacy, thinking of when he got -- when he was awarded the Medal, by President Obama, I just wonder, what also that legacy meant for Black athletes, not just in baseball, but across all sports?
VOICE OF BARKLEY: Well, it's interesting. That's a great question.
Because we're so young, most of us Black athletes, we have no idea what these guys have been through. We can see, on the pictures. We can see the movies. But I can't imagine what it's like to be Black and just trying to play these sports.
And obviously, shout-out to baseball, just making all the Negro Leagues records relevant. Because I can't imagine.
Kaitlan, I've been able to stay at any hotel, I want to. I've been able to go to any restaurant, I want to.
To try to be great at a sport and then dealing with all the racial strife that these guys had to deal with, that's what makes them heroes.
It's easy for guys today to be heroes, when you're making $30 million, $40 million, $50 million, and playing a sport. You can say what you want to. You can do what you want to.
But trying to be great at a sport, while, like I say, when you can't stay at a certain hotel, you can't go to a certain restaurant, and trying to be great at your sport? That's what makes Mr. Mays, Hank Aaron, Larry Doby, and those guys, that's what make those guys heroes.
COLLINS: That's such a good point. I mean, you must have been pretty star-struck when you met him.
VOICE OF BARKLEY: Oh, my God. One of my great friends, her name was Marcia (ph). So, she introduced me to Hank Aaron. And I got to meet him probably five to 10 times. And I got to meet Mr. Mays, probably 10 times in my life. And I was like a little kid. But they were so humble, and so gracious.
[21:35:00]
And I was like, I just like -- I'm getting to meet Hank Aaron and Willie Mays, and they were both -- you know, you want your heroes to be a certain way. And when I was around Mr. Mays, and Mr. Aaron, man, it was one of the greatest experiences of my life.
Because, you know, Kaitlan -- Kaitlan, you've been around stars. And they were not nice people, and it kind of breaks your heart. But when you meet a hero, and they're even better than you thought they were going to be, it's pretty special.
And 93, he lived an amazing life. So, this is more of a celebration and reflection. Because I always say it's only sad when young people die. But to live as long as he did. And hopefully he got his flowers. He got it from baseball. And hopefully, he got it from some of the young Black baseball players today.
COLLINS: No one could have said it better than you just said, Charles Barkley. Thank you for hopping on the phone with us, for this breaking news, tonight.
VOICE OF BARKLEY: Thank you for having me.
Rest in peace, Mr. Mays.
COLLINS: Absolutely. Thank you, Charles.
And, of course, as we are continuing to follow that, and as Charles said, there, look back on his life and his legacy as a celebration. We are also following other breaking news, tonight, as we are here in the 9 o'clock hour. Because also today, at the White House, you saw President Biden speaking, as he unveiled that new executive action, today, to protect some undocumented spouses and children of U.S. citizens.
In the meantime, his challenger, in this presidential race, the former President had a very different message, about immigration, as he was speaking to voters in Wisconsin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We should not be talking amnesty. We should be talking about stopping the invasion, instead. This is an invasion of our country.
(AUDIENCE CHEERS)
TRUMP: Because they've taken their gangs, their drug dealers, also their prisoners, and where have they brought them? To the United States of America. Thank you very much.
(AUDIENCE BOOS)
TRUMP: No, no. Who can believe that they allow this to happen to our country?
(AUDIENCE CHANTS "SEND THEM BACK")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You could see a smile, on Trump's face, during those chants.
I should note that both Trump and Biden are trying to turn one of the issues that voters tell us they care the most about into a winning message.
My source, tonight, is the Democratic congresswoman, Veronica Escobar, of Texas, who was there with President Biden, as he announced this executive action. And I should note, is also a National Co-Chair for the reelection campaign.
Congresswoman, so it's great to have you back.
And I was thinking. You said you were disappointed, two weeks ago, by the last executive order on immigration that President Biden signed, on asylum. I wonder if the one that he signed today makes up for that in your eyes.
REP. VERONICA ESCOBAR (D-TX): Well, Kaitlan, it's great to be on your show, to talk about the wonderful announcement of today.
As a border resident, as a representative from the border, no one has felt the impact of our broken immigration system more than my constituents, and those of us who live on the U.S.-Mexico border.
The immigration system, as I mentioned, so broken and so complex, that it's you know -- and unfortunately, Congress has failed to act, for over 37 years, on comprehensive immigration reform, making it even tougher.
And so, today's announcement was really welcome. Long overdue. We are very excited about the half million families who are going to be able to finally fight for their case, fight for their cause, for all of the children, the DACA recipients.
COLLINS: Yes.
ESCOBAR: It is great news today.
COLLINS: Yes, but when you -- when you look at these two actions, I mean, and you look at the full totality of what President Biden has done, on immigration, I do wonder how today -- you know, when voters are looking at this. And we saw activists upset with the executive order, curtailing asylum, if there's surges of migration, at the border.
How do you balance that with what you just laid out of what today's executive order means to you?
ESCOBAR: First of all, I think advocates and activists should be upset primarily with Congress. It is Congress' role to legislate. And in the absence of any congressional action, the President has had to manage what has been a really challenging situation at the border.
We have seen the numbers of migrants arriving at our nation's front door grow year after year after year. Didn't start with President Biden. Also didn't start with President Trump. But Congress has failed to act.
I know that some advocates and activists were disappointed, I was too, in an enforcement-only executive action. But again, my fundamental frustration is with my colleagues.
I have introduced a bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill that includes legislatively, and even in a broader way, part of what President Biden did today--
COLLINS: Yes.
ESCOBAR: --the American Families United Act that is embedded in the Dignity Act of 2023.
But Republicans have blocked any action on immigration reform. They've been doing it for decades. When we know that immigration is good for our economy, good for our GDP, helps lower inflation--
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Well and you did that--
ESCOBAR: --they--
COLLINS: --you introduced that years ago. And I know that's something that you've cared about a lot. And so, but when you look at this, when you talk about voters and who the voters should hold accountable, Trump has said things like immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country. He's called them animals.
But we have seen polls that show Trump is growing his support, actually, with Latino voters, right now. I wonder how you explain that, how you justify that, or what you think of that, when you see those numbers.
ESCOBAR: I -- the people have said this before. The real poll will be on Election Day. I've learned to not get too excited or too overwhelmed by any given poll numbers.
But we do know this, Kaitlan. And I know this fundamentally, from my conversations with Americans, in different parts of the country, where I've traveled on behalf of the Biden-Harris campaign. People want solutions. They see challenges at the border. They want us to address that.
But they also want us to address the broken immigration system. They know that DREAMers, DACA recipients deserve a shot. They know that in fact, it is -- it is an incredibly popular piece of legislation, the Dream and Promise Act. They know that immigrants help our economy. They want us to do both things. Have a secure border, but also have pathways for immigrants.
The President is showing that he is working on both of those issues. Ultimately, though, voters need to recognize if there's any group to blame, it's Congress.
COLLINS: We'll be watching it all closely, and see who they do hold accountable.
Congresswoman Veronica Escobar, great to have you tonight.
ESCOBAR: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next, we're taking a behind-the-scenes look at Donald Trump's run on "The Apprentice," from someone who wrote the book on it, who interviewed Trump six times. You want to hear his takeaways, from Donald Trump, after he left the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:46:10]
COLLINS: Donald Trump has a message for the country's business leaders, tonight, saying that if they are not 100 percent behind him, they should, quote, "Be FIRED for incompetence."
That threat from the presumptive Republican nominee for president comes days after he left the nation's top CEOs, some of them at least, scratching their heads, during a meeting in Washington. This is according to reporting from CNBC. Some of them said that during that meeting, Trump was meandering, and did not know what he was talking about.
Of course, this note from Trump, tonight, also a return to the former President's most infamous catchphrase.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You're fired.
You're fired.
You're fired. Go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That is from Trump's, of course, dramatic tenure as a business titan and reality show character, on "The Apprentice," which catapulted him into television stardom, and also then into the highest office in politics, Presidency of the United States.
My next guest interviewed Donald Trump, about that show, six times, after his exit from the White House, in 2021. My inside source, tonight, is the Co-Editor-in-Chief for Variety, Ramin Setoodeh. And he's also the Author of the new book that is out today, "Apprentice in Wonderland: How Donald Trump and Mark Burnett Took America Through the Looking Glass."
And can we just first start off about your sit-downs with Trump? Six times after he left the White House, which is such a different period, thinking about what's happening, in Virginia, tonight, and seeing his grip on the Republican Party.
I mean, what was he like? What did you observe from him, when you sat down with him?
RAMIN SETOODEH, AUTHOR: So, I interviewed Donald Trump more than any other journalist, since he's left the White House. We started in May 2021.
And that report you just talked about, about meandering and confusing is right. He goes from one story to the next. He struggles with the chronology of events. He seems very upset that he wasn't respected by certain celebrities in the White House. And then he'd go to a story about "The Apprentice."
So, as you know, Kaitlan, it's very challenging to interview Donald Trump, and to go toe-to-toe with him. But there was some cognitive questions about where he was, and what he was thinking. And he would -- he would, from time to time become confused.
COLLINS: Because you wrote, at one point, about Joan Rivers, him telling you that she voted for him, in 2016, I believe, even though.
SETOODEH: He confidently told me and declared that Joan Rivers voted for him, when he ran for president. And Joan Rivers died in 2014 -- Joan Rivers died in 2014. So, she would not have been able to vote for Donald Trump. COLLINS: Yes. And you, because you talked about his memory. You wrote that, on some days, I had the feeling he has no idea who is even talking to that he actually forgot, or didn't remember that the two of you had spoken at your first sit-down interview.
SETOODEH: Right. So, my first interview down was in May. He wasn't doing a lot of interviews.
And then, we sat down again towards the end of the summer. And when I sat down, I, you know, there was a very blank expression on his face. So I asked, do you remember when we spoke recently?
And he said, no, I have no memory of that.
And he couldn't recall. He said it was a long time ago. And then we had to start from scratch.
So, the interview started from square one, where he was started telling me the same exact stories that we -- that we -- I heard in our first interview. So, from there, then we did more interviews, so that we could cover more ground. But it was a little bit like Groundhog Day.
COLLINS: Yes. And the Trump campaign, responded saying that Trump was aware of this individual was throughout the interview.
But this writer -- this is their words, not mine.
SETOODEH: Yes.
COLLINS: I'm just the messenger. "Is a nobody and insignificant so of course he never made an impression."
But you wrote this book, and you talked about how he approached you, when it was reported that you were actually writing this. And we've talked a lot about "The Apprentice" and that on this show. Bill Pruitt, the former producer on the show--
SETOODEH: Yes.
COLLINS: --who says that he heard personally Trump used the N-word, when they were taping, who he talked to me about whether or not there were tapes that still existed.
And you asked Mark Burnett, the creator of "The Apprentice" about this. What did he tell you?
SETOODEH: Mark Burnett told me that tapes didn't exist.
Donald Trump also very forcefully says that the tape doesn't exist.
[21:50:00]
But then, he performed a thought experiment, where he said that if he were to say such a word, it wouldn't -- he wouldn't do it when he was miked. And it was a very strange non-sequitur, because I didn't actually ask whether or not he ever said the word. We were talking about the existence of the tape.
And he referred to it as quote, the race word, and then kind of speculated about what circumstances, and in which case he would use such a word. And it seemed to be for him about the fact that he wouldn't do it, while he was miked. And then, he denied saying it again.
COLLINS: What were your biggest takeaways from sitting down with him? Right after he left the White House, when his political power was probably the lowest it's been since 2015, and how he reflected on when he was hosting "The Apprentice," and the ratings were soaring in that first season, and just kind of what that looked like for him.
SETOODEH: He was very deflated. He was conflicted. He was angry about the way in which the press had treated him. He still believed that he won the election. And he was happiest, when he talked to me about hosting "The Apprentice."
It was the thing that brought him the most joy. We watched clips of the show, together. We watched the theme song. And he really lit up. He watched firing -- his firing of Omarosa.
And then he would talk about what he did at the White House, and he would become gloomy, and resentful, and unhappy, and refer to Afghanistan and Joe Biden. But he also seemed to think that he still had some foreign policy powers. And there was one day, where he told me he needed to go upstairs to deal with Afghanistan, even though he clearly didn't.
COLLINS: He told you that? He -- while you were interviewing him, at Trump Tower, he told you he needed to go upstairs to deal with Afghanistan?
SETOODEH: With the, quote, the Afghanistan, is how he referred to it.
COLLINS: I mean, it's remarkable experience. It's a remarkable book, so. It's out today, "Apprentice in Wonderland."
Ramin Setoodeh, thank you for coming on and talking about what those six interviews must have been like.
SETOODEH: Thank you very much, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Great to have you.
Also, coming up, here tonight, the latest after Justin Timberlake was arrested in the Hamptons, on the charge of a DWI. He is in the middle of his World Tour. We're learning new details about that arrest, tonight. More ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:56:16]
COLLINS: Tonight, Justin Timberlake has been arrested, booked, and we now have seen his mug shot. The pop star was charged with driving while intoxicated in the Hamptons.
And this morning, we saw pictures of him, leaving the courthouse there, as police say that Timberlake failed to stop at a stop sign, and stay in his lane. The police report, tonight, describes his eyes as, quote, "Bloodshot" and "Glassy" with a "Strong odor of an alcoholic beverage" on his breath.
Timberlake reportedly told the police that he had one martini, and followed his friends home. He also rejected a sobriety test, three times, saying, quote, "No, I'm not doing a chemical test."
We do know now, tonight, we are learning he's expected to have his next court appearance, virtually, on July 26th.
My source on this, tonight, Van Lathan, the media buff and co-host of the podcast, "Higher Learning."
And it's great to have you.
I should note. This is the first time Justin Timberlake has ever been arrested. I just wonder what you made of this news today.
VAN LATHAN, CO-HOST, "HIGHER LEARNING" PODCAST: Oh, no, for some reason, it was predictable. I mean, Justin hadn't had any real scandals in his career, like big scandals. But he's always had just this air of impropriety, in so many different situations.
Go back to the Janet Jackson thing, to where a lot of people think he weaseled out of that, and left her holding the bag. You got that extramarital stuff that went on in New Orleans. And just some other things.
It seemed as if he was almost due for something really significant to go wrong. Things just haven't been going his way lately.
COLLINS: Oh, that's an interesting point. Because I mean, I think, typically, lately at least, he hasn't really been in the headlines, except the fact that he's on his first tour in five years.
And I wonder what you make of the timing of this happening right now. And whether, you know, how they're viewing something like this happening, while he's on his first tour in five years?
LATHAN: Well, not great. I think that when you're asking people to come out and support you, on tour, and you have something like this happened? Happened for someone who has a type of image that he has? Father, husband, pop star. Probably not great.
But at the same time, the thing about Justin Timberlake and where he is right now is that the story gas just kind of gotten boring with him. People are a little bit over him.
There might be a new spin on his life, if people think that he's actually in trouble and they need him, they might go back to the Justin Timberlake that they used to remember, and think maybe it's time to cut the guy a break. COLLINS: Can we talk about like what the celebrity kind of playbook is, for a moment, like this, where they are caught in something, where he is?
I mean, obviously, he's been charged with this. We'll see what he says publicly about it. He hasn't actually weighed in on it so far.
But kind of what the celebrity playbook is when an arrest like this does happen.
LATHAN: Kaitlan, you can tell by the mug shot, the way they're going to play it. When the mug shot comes out, sometimes, celebrities take that opportunity to make a little PR moment out of it. They smile. They give a sexy look. They do whatever. They try to show it's not bothering them, whatever.
His mug shot was interesting. He looked like himself. But then again, not. He looked noticeably older, which I hadn't really realized that he'd gotten 43-years-old. And then he looked as if there was something missing from him.
So, I think with Justin, the playbook for him is going to be, to take a step back, to take accountability for it, to talk about what it means to be a husband, to be a father, and really tap back into the people that have been supporting them for like the last 20 years.
I think he's going to play it really close to the vest, and use it as an opportunity, to say he needs to get sober and reassess some things.
COLLINS: Yes. Is that what you expect his next move here will be? What are you going to be watching for before we -- before we go tonight?
[22:00:00]
LATHAN: Oh, well, I'm going to be watching for him, to completely fall on the proverbial sword. He is going to talk about how reckless it was, how he endangered people, how he fell short, the whole thing. I think it's going to be a complete mea culpa for him.
COLLINS: We'll be watching to see if that is what the reaction here. I know a lot of people were surprised, to see that mug shot, today.
Van Lathan, as always, it's great to have you. Thank you, for joining, tonight.
LATHAN: No problem.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much, for joining us, on this very busy news hour.
We are still watching that race, in Virginia, very closely.
And "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
