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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Harris Dares Trump To Debate Her: "Say It To My Face"; Vance In 2020 Podcast: "The People Who Are Most Deranged" On Social Media "Don't Have Kids At Home"; Kari Lake Among Several Election Deniers On AZ Ballot Tonight. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 30, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And if push comes to shove, they will all become involved in this, in a war between the Hezbollah and Israel. And then, it's all bets are off.
So, we're at a very dangerous moment. And, I think, in the next few days, we'll see if it's just going to be a flare-up, or something much, much worse.
Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Ben Wedeman, thanks very much. I appreciate it.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Kamala Harris taunting Donald Trump, at a packed rally, in Atlanta, giving a shout-out to a power player there, who will join me live, in moments, in a SOURCE-exclusive.
Plus, Project 2025, that conservative blueprint for a second Trump term, coming under such intense attacks, from Democrats and Donald Trump himself that, tonight, the leader is out.
And childless cat ladies apparently was not a one-off for Trump's running mate, J.D. Vance. There is more, a lot more actually. And Vance's law school roommate is going to join us, to talk about what CNN has now uncovered.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, it is a bit of a vibe shift, for Democratic voters, in the State of Georgia, with their new presumptive nominee in town. They turned out in droves, for Vice President, Kamala Harris, at a boisterous rally, in Atlanta, the same city where the Biden campaign just imploded, about over a month ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The path to the White House runs right through this state.
(CHEERS)
HARRIS: And you all helped us win in 2020. And we want to do it again in 2024.
We have a fight in front of us. And we are the underdogs in this race. We are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Just nine days after she became the top of the ticket, you saw Vice President Harris, tonight, vying hard, to put Georgia back into play, for her party, after it seemed that it was all but slipping away from them.
From that stage, tonight, Vice President Harris also issued this dare, to her new opponent, Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Well, Donald.
(CHEERS)
HARRIS: I do hope you'll reconsider to meet me on the debate stage.
(CHEERS)
HARRIS: Because as the saying goes, if you've got something to say.
(CHEERS)
HARRIS: Say it to my face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: By next week, on a debate stage, like that one, you can expect to see a new face, out on the campaign trail, with Harris. That's her running mate, who we are told that we will see out in battleground states, next week.
And we'll have the latest, from our sources, in just a moment, on how Harris has been working to reach her decision, which she told reporters, today, she is in fact still deciding on who's going to be on that ticket with her.
I'm joined tonight by Stacey Abrams, who is the former Democratic gubernatorial candidate in Georgia, and whose efforts to turn out voters helped turbo-charge some Democratic election wins in that state, certainly in 2020, which we all look back on.
And it's great to have you here tonight.
You were at that rally tonight. And when you heard Vice President Harris there, telling Trump to say it to her face, on the debate stage, issuing this challenge to him, when typically it's been reverse. Is that what the Harris campaign strategy is going to look like, for the next 98 days?
STACEY ABRAMS, (D) FORMER GEORGIA HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Vice President Harris understands that this is an election about choices.
And she's going to make very clear what the choices are. A president, who is flailing, who cannot figure out how he's going to attack, and so he's throwing everything he can. Or a prosecutor who's going to show America what's possible, if we continue the last four years, and make them the best four years imaginable.
She is going to invest in our community. She is going to invest in our country. She is not going to block good legislation, no matter who comes up with it, because she's never going to put her politics in front of other people's lives.
COLLINS: She brought up immigration, right out of the gate, when she -- when she came out on stage, saying that she'd put her record up against Donald Trump's, any day of the week.
And given this has been one of the weakest issues, for Democrats, but for this White House in particular, do you believe that she'll be able to outflank him on this matter?
ABRAMS: She can go directly at him, in part because, indeed, the Biden-Harris administration pushed bill, they pushed a law, that could have solved for so many of the issues that Donald Trump is complaining about. And he blocked that bill.
You cannot complain about a fire when you're the one holding the match. And we know that Donald Trump has done his level-best to defeat opportunities to make our country stronger and safer.
COLLINS: This is her first rally in your home state, since becoming the presumptive nominee of your party.
[21:05:00]
And I think when people look at the landscape. And we're looking at it, when we were there, a month ago, for the CNN debate, with President Biden, and former President Donald Trump, it didn't seem like it was necessarily in play, for Democrats.
With Harris at the top of the ticket, can Democrats win Georgia? And how does that work? What does that gameplan actually look like, in your view?
ABRAMS: Georgia is a battleground state. And what that means is you have to fight to win.
And we know that Vice President Harris intends to bring the fight directly to our doorstep. She intends to galvanize and energize our communities. She has already started off extraordinarily well, with more than 10,000 Georgians, on short notice, filling that convocation center. But what's even more telling are the number of people, who are waiting outside, to get in and get to work.
And so, from Atlanta to Savannah, from the North Georgia mountains to the coast, we are going to be working to repeat what we did in 2020, what we did in 2021. And how we sent Raphael Warnock, back to the Senate in 2022, we are going to work to win, and we're going to get it done. Because it's about meeting people, where they are, understanding their needs, investing in their future, and speaking truth about what's possible.
COLLINS: So, you do think it's more likely that Democrats can win Georgia, with Harris, at the top of the ticket, than when the chances of it, when Biden was at the top of the ticket?
ABRAMS: I'm saying that what we have in front of us is a campaign that is energized and ready to go. I strongly supported President Biden, when he was the nominee. I will strongly support Vice President Harris.
But what we know is that this is a race that we can win, because we have a standard-bearer, who's going to put everything she has into this. And we're going to fight together to make certain we hold this country together, and move this country forward, in the next four years.
COLLINS: You called Georgia a battleground state. This is something that we've talked about, with the Governor of Georgia, Republican governor, Brian Kemp.
Because, obviously, we talk about the margins here. Biden won in 2020, by 11,779 votes. We've all memorized that number, at that point, because of Donald Trump.
But when he was asked if it was a battleground state, I just want you to listen to what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): And I have a vested interest in making sure that Georgia remains red, unlike it did in 2020. I mean, I think that sends the narrative that -- you know, Georgia is not this purple state that everybody thinks it is, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I think there is a question of is it a purple state? Or was that because of the anomaly of what happened in 2020? What would your reaction to that be?
ABRAMS: I would go back to basic elementary color theory, that red and blue makes purple. We might have a red governor. But we've got two -- two blue senators, two true blue senators, who are going to do the work, again, to make certain that our state turns purple -- the state's purple. And turns blue.
COLLINS: The Chair of the Harris campaign told staff, last week, as they were dealing with a lot of re-shuffling, obviously, that the focus should be on winning Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
Do you believe Georgia should be fourth on that list? What does that look like for you?
ABRAMS: What I believe is that America needs president -- needs a President Harris. And that means we've got to fight everywhere we can, to ensure that we win everywhere we can.
We know that in 2020, the numbers looked different. We know that in 2020, a number of states were discounted. Georgia, Arizona. We won. And we will win again. But if we put all of our efforts in a handful of states, we are not only ignoring other places that are ripe for change. We are ignoring people's voices, who need to be heard.
And that's one of the hallmarks of Vice President Harris. She's going to listen to everyone. She's going to work for everyone. She is showing up in Georgia, because she knows that Georgia is reflective of the needs of this country. And we look forward to working with her, to show not only that Georgia is in play, but this nation is in good hands, with the new president, Kamala Harris.
COLLINS: Yes. And with that new name, at the top of the ticket, you were someone, who stood by President Biden, as he was coming and facing calls, from other members of your party, to step down.
I was looking at what you wrote in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. And you had concerns about introducing a new, untested candidate, at this stage, saying that you'd be -- your party would be destroying what they seek to save. You said, "Democrats must not fall victim to overcomplicating our political strategy to satisfy the fever dreams of a silver bullet to success."
Overall, and given the time crunch that you are facing with 98 days, do you feel more confident, in her ability, to beat Trump, than in Biden's?
ABRAMS: This is not the comparison we need to make.
The question is, do we have a candidate at the top of the ticket who can win? The answer is absolutely yes. Does the Vice President, Harris, have the capacity to win? Yes. Does she have the message and the mission? Yes. Does she have the policies that can turn out voters? Yes.
The work that has to be done is about reminding voters what's at stake, not only reminding them of Trump, but reminding them of how dark our days were, when he was last in office, and how bright our future will be, with Vice President Harris as our newly-elected president.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: We've seen how critical a vice president is. I mean, not just with Harris obviously, in the last few weeks. But also with Mike Pence on January 6th. Maybe voters aren't necessarily driven to the polls, because of who the second name on that ticket is. But I'm curious. Given you were under consideration, to be Biden's vice president, when we were looking at that veepstakes. Who do you think, who would you like to see on the ticket with President Har -- with Vice President Harris?
ABRAMS: I would like for her to pick the person that she feels most comfortable with, someone who believes in all of America, someone willing to do the work, roll up their sleeves and get to work.
98 days isn't very long. But it's long enough to make history. And I know that she's going to make the choice that is best for her and best for this country.
COLLINS: What are your thoughts on the roster that she's considering? I mean, there have been memes, jokes about what the roster looks like. We've spoken to several of the candidates, here on this show. Obviously, it has centered around a lot of White males, with a more centrist persona.
Is that you believe just a cold, hard political calculation? Or would you like to see a woman, or a person of color, on that consideration list?
ABRAMS: Given that at this point, I've endorsed almost every single candidate, who's under consideration, in one of their races, I am perfectly satisfied that no matter who she picks, it's someone I support.
COLLINS: I'm curious. I was listening to Donald Trump, the other day. And he still talks about the election being stolen.
We all know it wasn't. We've seen that. We've litigated that, literally, in courts and mentioned in our interviews.
But I wonder, given the fact that he still uses that language. And so often, when we confront Republican officials about that, I often get people bringing up remarks that you made, after your governor race, with Brian Kemp in Georgia, that you lost, that he won, and the comments that you made after that.
I wonder if you have regrets about the language that you used, casting doubt on the outcome of that election, in light of what we now see, and how Republicans use that, to bolster their defense of Trump's claims of a stolen election?
ABRAMS: Well, go back to elementary school, again, and use comprehension as the basis.
I acknowledged that Brian Kemp won that election. What I called into question was the process that was used. And courts agreed with us. Again, and again, during the overtime after Election Day, and again afterwards, so much so that he actually signed legislation, to fix some of the problems that we -- that we were able to reveal.
I never once said that he did not win. What I said is that the process was flawed. And that's why we have the Voting Rights Act in the United States. That's why we have the Help America Vote Act. We know that sometimes we don't get it right. And it takes calling out the mistakes to improve.
I am always going to be proud of fighting for voters, fighting for Americans, making certain that every vote that gets cast gets counted. That's work that I'm proud to do, whether I'm a candidate, or a citizen. And I'm going to make certain that in 2024, every vote that gets cast gets counted, and that every American who wants to vote, and is eligible to do so, feels comfortable that they can do so in our country.
COLLINS: Well, I do remember the time you told The New York Times, I won. You did describe it as a stolen election. The courts did side with the Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger--
ABRAMS: No that's actually -- Kaitlan?
COLLINS: --in some of the challenges as well.
ABRAMS: Kaitlan, that's actually incorrect. And normally, I wouldn't cut you off. But you're repeating disinformation.
What the court said, if you read the entire opinion, was that despite the flaws in the process, that we acknowledged, that the courts acknowledged, they were no longer permitted to complete and fix them. They could not correct the mistakes, because the law had changed between 2018 and 2022, when the case was finally adjudicated.
There was never a moment, where they said what happened was right. What they said was there was no capacity to correct the mistakes.
And so, it's important that we not only use the headlines, but we read the fine print, because that's where the mistakes are made.
COLLINS: Yes.
ABRAMS: That's where the challenges are.
I believed, then, and I believe now, I have never been the Governor of Georgia, I have never claimed to be the Governor of Georgia.
What I have said is that voters were denied their full rights. Courts agreed with me, in the time of that election. They agreed with me, post-election. The state made changes to the flaws, some of them.
Unfortunately, too many of them have been restored in different ways. And we continue to face voter suppression not only in Georgia, but around the country. Because Republicans are using the ability to change the laws, because we no longer have the protection of the Voting Rights Act, to make it harder, for average voters, to show up at the polls, and have their votes counted.
COLLINS: Yes.
ABRAMS: That should be the--
COLLINS: And--
ABRAMS: That should be where our focus is. That should be where our attention is. And anyone who tries to distract us from that is not doing the work of protecting democracy in America.
COLLINS: And I take your point that obviously you did not agree with the laws that were in place. You didn't like the new ones that Governor Kemp signed.
But -- and we do read past the headlines and the fine print. And in one of them, the court said that although Georgia's election system is not perfect, the challenged practices violate neither the Constitution nor the Voting Rights Act.
[21:15:00]
And so, I just wanted to give you a chance to respond to that, given it is something we've heard from Senator Ted Cruz, and others, on this show.
Stacey Abrams, thank you for your time tonight.
ABRAMS: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next, the Director of the controversial 2025 Project has now stepped down. Democrats were using it in election-year warning. You heard it from Vice President, on the campaign trail, tonight. Trump was also trying to distance himself from the blueprint, that was made by a lot of people who used to work for him.
Also, later tonight, Trump's former running mate -- or Trump's current running mate, J.D. Vance, is also back on the trail, as CNN's KFILE has just dug up even more comments he once made, about childless Americans. His former law school roommate is here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:20:10]
COLLINS: Tonight, the Director of Project 2025 has stepped down, after facing criticism, from both Democrats and the Trump campaign.
Paul Dans helmed the right-wing policy blueprint and personnel project, which was backed by the conservative Heritage Foundation. And if it was enacted, it would dramatically reshape how the federal government operates. At least a 140 former Trump administration officials contributed to this project. And many of its proposals overlap with Trump's plans for a second term.
But the former President has both criticized and distanced himself from it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know what the hell it is. It's Project '25. He's involved in Project. And then they read some of the things. And they are extreme. I mean, they're seriously extreme. But I don't know anything about it. I don't want to know anything about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, I should note the Trump campaign appeared to cheer Paul Dans' departure, tonight, even though he is an alum of the Trump administration, who served in the OPM office. Saying in a quote, its "Demise would be greatly welcomed and should serve as notice to anyone or any group trying to misrepresent their influence with President Trump and his campaign- it will not end well for you."
I should note. Paul Dans was supposed to join me, on this show, tonight. And we hope that he will soon. But he unfortunately canceled our interview, within the last hour.
Here is Dans, in his own words, about the project he had been working on for years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL DANS, FORMER PROJECT 2025 DIRECTOR: Our book is a set of proposals by conservative organizations. Donald Trump and his campaign alone set the agenda.
STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Yes. And they're--
DANS: These are ideas to help them. And they'll pick and choose. But, you know, a lot of the mischaracterization now, and false attributions of things to Project 2025, it's kind of what Scott's (ph) saying, they have nothing else to run on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining us now is Washington Post National Political Reporter, Isaac Arnsdorf, who has been following Project 2025, and its relationship with the Trump campaign closely.
And Isaac, in your reporting, tonight, you talk about how it became this rallying cry, for Democrats, but also was a nuisance for the Republican nominee, Donald Trump, as he -- as they're trying to escape the public spotlight, and repair relations with Trump's campaign.
Can you just lay out a breakdown for people, who have heard about Project 2025, but also just heard what Trump said, on what this relationship and what Project 2025 was actually doing?
ISAAC ARNSDORF, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Project 2025 started before Trump was the nominee, before it was clear that he was going to be the nominee.
And the idea was for The Heritage Foundation to get together a whole bunch of think tanks, in the conservative movement, and present a consensus view, for an agency-by-agency policy blueprint for the next administration, whoever that Republican president was going to be. Now, obviously -- and there were actually some concerns that the President of The Heritage Foundation was too close to Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, for a while, and that that could be an issue.
But obviously, as it became clear that Trump was going to be the nominee, and so many of the contributors to this -- to this -- to this project, were alumni of the Trump White House and the Trump administration, and would naturally be the kinds of people, who Trump would look to, to staff the next administration, if he does win.
And so, that's why when, the Trump campaign has not been super- specific about the details of what he would implement in a second term. Naturally, a lot of people look at his staff, his former staff, and the ideas that were being presented, to kind of fill in those blanks, and get a clearer sense of what that would look like.
And then, when the campaign saw that there, they didn't want to own the things that were ending up being controversial.
COLLINS: But it's remarkable, because a lot of this was, as you noted, done by people, who worked for Trump. A lot of the proposals, when you look at them, are things that people and Trump's campaign have actually proposed, and suggested would happen, if he did win a second term.
So, I think it's remarkable to see such a conservative group that Trump has praised the leader of The Heritage Foundation, and to now see his campaign cheering the departure of the leader, of this specific project.
ARNSDORF: Well, right. I mean, look, a lot of people at Heritage and involved in Project 2025 loved the notoriety that it was getting. They loved to see it being criticized on CNN and MSNBC. They loved that there were DNC mobile billboard trucks outside the office.
[21:25:00]
But then, when it started angering Trump, and they started getting backlash from Trump about it? That made them really concerned. And so, some of what is going on here, is trying to have a reset, trying to make -- smooth this over with the campaign, try to get out of the spotlight, offer up Paul Dans as a little bit of a sacrificial lamb, and maybe we can just try to smooth this over.
And publicly, the campaign is happy to take that W, if it means that Project 2025 stops causing political problems for them. The thing is, I don't expect the Democrats to stop talking about it anytime soon.
COLLINS: Isaac Arnsdorf, it's great point there. Thank you for joining tonight.
ARNSDORF: Thanks.
COLLINS: And I have a panel of political experts here, to also talk about this.
Bill de Blasio is the former New York City mayor.
David Polyansky is a Republican strategist, who has worked on five Republican presidential campaigns and, most recently, for Ron DeSantis.
And also the veteran journalists, Gretchen Carlson.
It's great to have you all here tonight.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST, CO-FOUNDER, LIFT OUR VOICES: Thank you.
COLLINS: And David, I'll start with you, since given what Isaac was just laying out. Initially, they were worried that this was too close to DeSantis.
But did you ever think you'd see the day, where the Republican -- the Republican nominee's campaign is kind of decrying this project, and trying to say we have nothing to do with this, even though the guy who was in charge of it worked for Trump?
DAVID POLYANSKY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes. I mean, look what happened at the RNC convention, recently. I mean, we saw the campaign, essentially eliminate most specific policy platforms, in our own convention.
And so, look, it's not uncommon. And anybody that's worked in politics, in Washington, knows think tanks, both on the left and on the right, like to drive white papers, constantly, and try to influence whether it's a legislative process, the executive process, and sometimes, the campaign process. They're just not very good at it.
And so, in some cases, they're great ideas, and suggestions that campaigns might test, and push out, and take on their own. In other instances, they're extreme ideas that campaigns look at and go, no way in hell we're taking that on.
COLLINS: Yes.
POLYANSKY: And I think that's what you're seeing here.
COLLINS: Well, and Tom Homan, who was Trump's ICE chief, and contributed to this, he spoke at that Republican convention. He was on stage.
And this is something that Democrats have used, Mr. Mayor.
And I want you to listen to what Vice President Harris said, just tonight, when she was on this stage in Atlanta.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Just look at his Project 2025 agenda.
(AUDIENCE BOOS)
HARRIS: I take it, you've seen it. Project 2025 is a plan to weaken the middle-class. Be clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Should we still expect to see her, using that talking point, you think, even despite Paul Dans' departure?
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Yes, a 100 percent.
Look, when over 100 former Trump administration officials helped to write it, and it mirrors so much of what Trump has said, over the years. The die is cast. This is going to stick to Donald Trump for the rest of this election.
And I'll tell you something. We should be worried about it, not just because of the specific policy planks, which are clearly extreme. But I'll tell you, as someone who had to start a government, in City Hall, in New York City. You take that policy platform, it's actually where you begin.
So, this is not -- I agree with you. Some pieces get thrown out. But I want people to be really clear. If only one force has created a platform, and given you those details? A lot of energy gravitates that way, when a new administration begins. And that's why this should be taken very, very seriously.
COLLINS: Well, and there's no real transition happening, right now, for the Trump campaign, planning if he does win. So, this actually probably would have been something they used a lot of, at least in certain bones and structure of it.
But when you look at the part of this. The reason we wanted to talk to Paul Dans about this tonight, is he helmed all of this, obviously, with a lot of help. But there were plans to ban pornography, reverse federal appeal of Mifepristone, undo the FDA's approval of that essentially, also eliminate the federal agency that oversees the National Weather Service.
I mean, there are these proposals that a lot of these conservatives wanted to actually see enacted, and certainly could still happen, if Trump won.
CARLSON: Yes. I mean, I think it was a total shock to many conservatives that Donald Trump suddenly disavowed himself from this.
By the way, I think getting rid of Paul Dans does nothing. The Democrats will continue to talk about this. Because this is effectively what Donald Trump will do, potentially, if he wins reelection.
But what I really want to get the point across is that this is all about Independents. And quite possibly, the Trump campaign finally realized that they had to reach out to Independents. And this is not a way to do it. 900 pages of ultra-conservatism.
So, Independents decide every presidential election. He may have figured out that he has to try and get them, in some shape or form. And that's a pretty terse statement, coming from the Trump campaign tonight, that they want nothing to do with this.
COLLINS: Do you see it as how Isaac just laid it out that this person, who helmed this was seen as a sacrificial lamb, essentially?
CARLSON: Yes, but I don't think it's going to do one thing. I mean, the Democrats are going to still tick, or still stick this project to Donald Trump.
COLLINS: Yes.
Well, we have a lot more to talk about, about the campaign trail and what else we heard, from Vice President Harris, on that stage tonight.
We also have news tonight on the announcement about a running mate for Vice President Harris, and where we will be seeing that person, for the first time. That's right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:34:22]
COLLINS: Some breaking news, just in for you. As we have now learned from sources that Vice President Harris is going to be holding her first rally with her vice presidential pick, this Tuesday, in Philadelphia. That's a week from today.
And that is what we are hearing, from a campaign official, to CNN, tonight, as we have learned that Harris and her new running mate will be traveling to a series of battleground states, next week.
One of the top contenders, who is being vetted by the team is Josh Shapiro. He is the Governor of Pennsylvania, where she will be appearing on Tuesday.
And I should note, the other top contenders that we've been hearing about. Arizona senator, Mark Kelly. Minnesota governor, Tim Walz. Among them, Andy Beshear of Kentucky. Also, Pete Buttigieg.
[21:35:00]
And this comes as we've learned about what Harris is doing behind-the- scenes, as she is trying to make her decision, studying notebooks, filled with information, about these potential number twos. Also having preliminary conversations with some of them, asking close advisers who they believe would make her strongest governing partner.
My powerhouse panel is back with me.
And Mr. Mayor, this process is actually really important, as we've seen with -- I don't know, if the J.D. Vance stuff would have stopped Trump from picking him, the childless cat ladies. But it does show you why people do the vetting.
DE BLASIO: And the history is very sobering. I think back -- I was in the Clinton administration. I think back to the fact we had two attorney general nominees, at the beginning of the administration, Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood, both of whom didn't pass vet. He nominated them publicly. And then, things came out about them, and they had to withdraw. Janet Reno eventually became the attorney general. So, that's with a full presidential transition process.
This is a few weeks. This is rushed without the benefit of the kind of time you need to be very, very careful. I'm very worried about that, even though I have great faith in Kamala Harris and her team.
The other thing I have to say is I think the number one consideration here is not governing partner, even though of course, we all want that as Americans. This is a razor-thin election. Who's the most dynamic campaigner, who can make the biggest difference?
I'm not sure those names -- some of them are strong, I think. But I still believe Gretchen Whitmer is the best campaigner. And I'm surprised that that isn't the first consideration. I think that ticket would be electric.
COLLINS: Do you -- how do you see that? And--
CARLSON: Well, there's a little-known story about Governor Shapiro that's starting to gain some traction. And it happened, last year, when his top aide was accused of sexual harassment of a subordinate.
And there were criticisms about the Governor's response to this. And the fact that it took so long for him to actually say much about it, or in fact, for this -- for this aide to resign. Meantime, the woman of course, was pushed out.
And I think, in 2024 -- I would know something about this, after suing Fox News and Roger Ailes for harassment, back in 2016. This doesn't cut it in 2024 anymore. You can't put these stories under the carpet, and expect to not have people talk about them.
So, Governor Shapiro, in my mind, should let that woman out of her non-disclosure agreement, tonight, tomorrow, and possibly put out a press statement, about how he maybe should have handled it slightly different.
He's never actually said anything about the aide as far as any kind of criticism. And when you're running with a female candidate, at the top of the ticket, and you are looking for the female votes, this story could become a much bigger problem, speaking of vetting.
COLLINS: And he wasn't implicated. But he did -- The AP reported that it was a $295,000 settlement that they made with this woman. That is a good point about just what the landscape looks like, compared to, obviously, in the Bill Clinton days, to what it looks like now, what they're considering for.
CARLSON: Well, we've come a long way with these issues.
And the other problem I have is that the Governor said, oh, it's a great thing that we pushed this into secrecy.
No. The way we solve these problems is that we talk about them, and we don't push them into secrecy through NDAs.
So, again, I would call on him to release this woman, from the NDA.
COLLINS: That's a good point about what this process looks like.
We did hear from Harris, on the campaign trail, tonight. She came out of the gate, talking about immigration, right out of the -- right out of it. And obviously, that's been an issue that the Trump campaign, people I've been speaking to, think it's going to be one of her weakest areas.
Listen to what she said tonight, though.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: I went after transnational gangs, drug cartels and human traffickers that came into our country illegally. I prosecuted them in case after case, and I won.
(CHEERS)
HARRIS: Donald Trump--
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Donald Trump, on the other hand, has been talking a big game, about securing our border. But he does not walk the walk. Or, as my friend Quavo would say, he does not walk it like he talks it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And of course, for those, who weren't watching, Quavo was at that rally, just for a little context there.
But is that an effective response to heat-off what the Republican attacks are?
POLYANSKY: Well, it's an absolutely essential one.
Look, this, we talked about Project 2025, and other tertiary things. The fact of this race is going to come down to the economy, and inflation, and immigration.
And so, if she's not able to convince voters, especially voters, where she's going to have to win, as we talk about vice presidential options, she's going to have to sweep the Rust Belt, most likely. I just don't see a pathway for her, in Arizona and Nevada, or even Georgia and North Carolina. She's going to have to sweep there.
And immigration is a big important issue. And it's going to come down to a few tens of thousands of votes in each of those states. So, she's going to have to make this case, not just nationally, but to those voters, in those states. And she's going to have to go directly, at former President Trump, to do it. And that's an effective start.
DE BLASIO: I want to beg to differ, respectfully. I think your analysis is always strong.
[21:40:00]
But I have to say, I think the election actually comes down to the rights of women, and it comes down to concerns about extremism, with absolutely an overlay of some of those kitchen-table issues. I'm not saying they don't matter. They do. But who's going to decide the election? Suburban women, in those key states, in those Democrat, blue-all states.
And I think what's so striking, tonight, is to see the Trump campaign and their attack on Harris, in their ad, that's attacking her on immigration. Just a raw extremism of it, the sort of over-the-top language, the direness, like this-American-carnage kind of language, that's going to turn off those voters profoundly.
So, in the end, I think Harris is doing the right thing, to say, hey, I'm going to do something different on immigration, with Republicans, or my way.
There's a great historical analogy here, by the way. Harry Truman, 1948, called out the do-nothing Congress that stood in his way of doing things for the average working American. And guess what? The biggest election, the upset, we've seen in decades.
Right now, I think Harris has an opportunity, to own that issue, turn it around, but much more importantly, to point out the extremism of Trump.
COLLINS: Well, let's listen to what J.D. Vance is saying.
Because he was out, he did two stops, tonight, out on the campaign trail. And he is certainly coalescing more, around the Harris message. He's not talking about President Biden, as much as we'd seen a lot of Republicans saying, time to move on to the match you actually do have.
This is what he said in Nevada, tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: I guarantee you, if Kamala Harris is president, law-abiding citizens are going to struggle, they are going to be sitting ducks.
She also wants to confiscate firearms from law-abiding American citizens. In other words, she wants to abolish your Second Amendment rights, even if she lets more and more dangerous criminals on the street. And we're not going to let her, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to vote her out of office.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: What do you make of what you're hearing from Vance? He's, I believe, he was talking about her support for mandatory buybacks, on the 2020 trail. They're using a lot of what she did then, compared to the last few four years that they've been in office.
CARLSON: Yes. I mean, I think we're going to learn a lot more about her as she continues to campaign. And if they ever have a debate, these issues will be front and center. And we'll hear what she actually has to say about them, four years later.
Just to say what you were saying, Bill to, or to respond to it, is that now, Kamala Harris also has an ad coming out against Trump, about immigration.
And I think an essential point, in this debate, is that Trump, and the Republicans, had the opportunity to pass a bipartisan piece of legislation, regarding immigration. And because of Trump telling the Republicans not to do it, they didn't. And I think that was a tremendous mistake.
DE BLASIO: Right.
CARLSON: He, instead of attacking Kamala Harris, right now, could be out on the trail, saying look what I did on immigration.
COLLINS: Gretchen Carlson, great to have you join the panel.
CARLSON: Thank you.
COLLINS: David Polyansky. Mayor de Blasio. Great to have you back.
Thank you all for that.
Up next, we're going to speak with a former roommate, of J.D. Vance's, who's going to join us on that new CNN KFILE investigation that found other remarks that Vance made, about Americans who do not have kids, also calling them more sociopathic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:47:16]
COLLINS: In battleground Nevada, tonight, Donald Trump's pick for vice president, J.D. Vance, making no mention of the uproar that has surrounded the comments that he made in the past, deriding childless cat ladies, who are in government.
It comes as CNN's KFILE, tonight, has uncovered more examples, of Vance disparaging Americans, who don't have children.
Here's one of those.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are just these basic cadences of life that I think are really powerful, and really valuable, when you have kids in your life. And the fact that so many people, especially in America's leadership class, just don't have that in their lives. You know, I worry that it makes people more sociopathic and ultimately, our whole country a little bit less -- less mentally stable.
And of course you talk about going on Twitter. Final point I'll make is you go on Twitter, and almost always, the people who are most deranged and most psychotic are people who don't have kids at home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Josh McLaurin, who was J.D. Vance's Yale roommate, and is now a Democratic State Senator, in Georgia.
And it's great to have you here.
When you hear what Vance -- Senator Vance of Ohio just said there, calling Americans who -- sociopathic, suggesting that they're mentally unstable. What do you make of these new comments that we've uncovered?
JOSH MCLAURIN, (D) GEORGIA STATE SENATOR: Well, first of all, hi. It's great to join you, Kaitlan.
And as a preface to my answer, I just came from the Kamala Harris rally in Atlanta, where the vibes are excellent. So, this is kind of a plunge into a different reality. When you start talking about where the top of the Republican ticket is, the vibes are very different.
Obviously, the childless cat ladies comment from 2021 has resonated, echoed across the country, women from both parties. And even Jennifer Aniston has been outraged, right, about his comments.
And it seems like it's not just a one-off thing. As you pointed out, this has some sort of a fixation, where he is apparently very angry and committed to this theory about leadership, or about his political opposition. And it obviously comes from somewhere sort of dark or creepy.
I mean, when Democrats are saying weird, we're not talking about like indie music. We're saying that this ticket, the Republican ticket, Trump and Vance are obviously committed to some sort of an agenda, not just for their families, but for other people's families. And that's what's scary is that they want to impose that agenda on other people.
COLLINS: I think people who are watching this, and clearly hear that you're supporting Vice President Harris? You were at that rally in Georgia, tonight. But they're curious about your background, and your history with J.D. Vance, before he was Senator J.D. Vance.
I mean, when this was all beginning to be uncovered, were you surprised by this? Or do you remember him ever talking about this before?
MCLAURIN: Well, I'm the one who published the America's Hitler text, right? He wrote to me in 2016, that he feared that Trump might be America's Hitler. So obviously, it's a huge flip-flop for him now, years later, to be Trump's biggest cheerleader, on the national stage.
[21:50:00]
I reached out to him in 2016, because we were friendly, at the end of law school, and after. We graduated in 2013, 2014. I graduated a year later. But in 2016, I thought I had an ally in him, because even though I was a Democrat, and he was a Republican, I think we both found Trump to be appalling, at that time, really scary.
And so, we reached -- I reached out to him, and I asked for his thoughts on Trump. And he was very thorough and incisive. He told me that Trump was the fruit of the Republican Party's collective neglect, that a demagog would come along and exploit that failure. I mean, that's very sophisticated analysis that still holds true today.
So, I mean, I wasn't ready for the big flip-flop that he made years later. I know it was gradual. But by 2021, when I heard him make that childless cat ladies comment, for the first time, I mean, I was kind of shocked.
Because, I mean, for one thing, I was shocked that somebody, who apparently had political aspirations would want to insult millions of Americans who, you know, if you're running for U.S. Senator, especially on the stage he's on now, you just can't afford to be -- to have that much contempt for everyday people.
And so, it's one thing that Democrats have to do is stay focused on everyday people, the issues that really matter to them, the economy, reproductive rights, and not get distracted the way that Republicans are, by these sort of weird cultural wars.
COLLINS: Well, and we heard from Vance's team, after KFILE was publishing this report, on these other instances, where he was fundraising off of what he said in 2021, and repeating what he said about childless sociopaths, and saying our childless opponents have a lot of free time on their hands.
When they were asked for comment to that, a spokesperson said that as Vance has clearly stated, he was talking about politicians on the left who support policies that are explicitly anti-child and anti-family. The media can obsess over it all they want, but he's not going to back down when it comes to advocating for policies that protect parental rights and encourage people to have more kids.
When you hear that and when you hear what Senator Vance says about his views on Trump now being changed, because he watched him in office. Do you think that that's genuine?
MCLAURIN: I think voters are smarter than that. I mean, it's the Democrats, who were pushing for an expanded child tax credit to cut poverty in half in the country.
This attempt to pivot away from the raw personal feelings of Trump and Vance is going to fail, I think. Because it's obvious, with such a fixation, repeatedly, in multiple media appearances, in a way that's filled with contempt, right? This is not just some sort of dry policy discussion that Republicans are trying to have with people about kids. No, this is some sort of weird projection.
And again, it doesn't really matter what the exact source of the trauma or the psychology is of it. I think people are aware that whatever the case may be, Trump and Vance want them not to have reproductive rights, push for a national abortion ban, maybe even without the use of Congress. That's what Project 2025 mentions. And tell people basically, whether they can plan for the family the way that they want or not. I mean, Project 2025 includes restrictions on birth control.
So again, it's not just about abortion. It's not just about these dry policy issues. There is an agenda, where these leaders at the top of this ticket, have some sort of contempt for women, and are apparently not afraid to show it to millions of Americans.
COLLINS: Obviously, we've seen the pushback from Vance's team on that.
State Senator, Josh McLaurin, thank you for joining us tonight with that perspective.
And it is primary night, here in America. Polls are actually about to close, in some critical states that we've been looking at, tonight, including one that has multiple election deniers on the ballot. We'll take a look at those, right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:57:47]
COLLINS: Polls in Arizona close in a matter of minutes. And it is a state that is obviously vitally important, because it could play a role, both in deciding who wins the White House, but also which party controls the Senate, come November.
It is a state that has become a hotbed of election denialism, as we have followed closely. That is why CNN's Senior Data Reporter, Harry Enten, is here.
And Harry, I think this is really interesting, because this is a series of primaries that are playing in Arizona that can tell us, are Republican voters choosing candidates, who still push election denialism, or are they going in a different direction?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I mean, and you see that very well in the United States Senate race, in that state, right?
Kari Lake who, of course, lost the gubernatorial race there in 2022, and basically would not admit that. In fact, she lost that race to Katie Hobbs. And she is, right now, the favorite to get that Republican nomination, in the State of Arizona. And I think it's sort of emblematic of the Republican Party's problems in that state.
And you can see that very well in their electoral history, in Senate races, right? Pre-Trump era, they basically were on a roll. They hadn't lost a race since, I believe, 1988. They had won a 100 percent of the Senate races. Since that point, they've won, get this, 0 percent. And it is partially, because they put up extreme candidates, like they're probably going to do tonight, with Kari Lake.
And it's one of those races, where Democrats need to win it. And if Kari Lake's the nominee, they're likely going to win it.
COLLINS: Well, and she may be the best-known election denier in Arizona, which I guess is taking the cake, since there are a lot of people, who have been indicted there in that.
ENTEN: Yes.
COLLINS: But there are other election deniers that are also on the ballot, tonight.
ENTEN: That's absolutely right.
You could go to Arizona's 8th District, where you have Abe Hamadeh on there.
You have Blake Masters on there.
The Maricopa County Recorder's office, where the incumbent is actually not an election denier. He's actually someone, who believes in the sanctity of our elections, believes that the votes that actually get counted are real votes, which of course, is what we should believe in.
So, the fact is, we see this across sort of the spectrum, where you see people, who actually believe in our elections getting challenged, by election denialism, are those who are at least floating with it. And those who are election denialism -- or believe in election denialism, basically have easy rides to U.S. Senate nominations, perhaps ones that they shouldn't necessarily get.
COLLINS: OK. But you just mentioned District 8. Can we please talk about what's happening there, where two people have been endorsed by Donald Trump?
ENTEN: Yes. So, Abe Hamadeh, who ran for attorney general, last time, got endorsed by Donald Trump.
[22:00:00]
And then, in the closing days of the campaign, Blake Masters, who of course ran for the United States Senate, another election denial guy, then also got endorsed by Donald Trump.
It's almost as if Donald Trump can't lose. And maybe it's because his endorsement hasn't been as good lately, right. Before June, he had won -- or none of the people he endorsed lost. Four of them lost in June.
COLLINS: Can you endorse two people in one race?
ENTEN: Sure, you can. Why not? You can endorse whoever you want. Trump is going to make sure he automatically wins. Trump always wins, baby.
COLLINS: Well we'll see if that's true.
ENTEN: We'll see if that's true.
COLLINS: Harry Enten always wins.
ENTEN: There you go.
COLLINS: Harry, thank you for that.
We'll continue tracking all of those races here.
Thank you for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
