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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Harris Lays Out Economic Agenda In First Major Policy Speech; Trump Says Civilian Award Is "Much Better" Than Medal of Honor; GA Secretary Of State Fights Defamation Suit Over Election Lies. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired August 16, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He also told me that they are working on targeting their messaging, and that they have one of the most robust operations on the ground level that they have had in years. So, they are certainly hopeful that Donald Trump will get to that 23 percent threshold.
But keep in mind, the Democrats in Dane County outnumber the Republicans by about three to one. So, they certainly have their work cut out for them.
Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Randi, thanks so much.
Be sure to join us, Sunday night, at 8 Eastern, for a special convention eve edition of 360, live from Chicago.
For now, the news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, Sunday.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE Tonight.
Vice President Harris rolls into a critical battleground, and rolls out her plans to bring costs down. The contrast with Donald Trump, as both are preparing privately for the debate stage.
The former President says the nation's highest civilian honor is much better than the nation's highest military honor. A Gold Star father is my source, tonight, to respond.
And Georgia's Secretary of State, who refused to find Trump those 11,000 votes, in 2020, is now being sued by a fellow Republican, who will only settle if he endorses a false conspiracy theory.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Voters keep telling anyone and everyone who will listen, it is the number one issue. It's what they care about the most. It's what they want to hear about the most. And that is why we heard two back-to-back speeches, on the economy, this week, from the candidates who want to run this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Two days ago, Donald Trump was here in North Carolina.
(AUDIENCE BOOS)
HARRIS: He said he was going to talk about the economy.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: I think you all watched. You know what I'm about to say.
But he offered no serious plans to reduce costs for middle-class families, no plan to expand access to housing or health care.
And, on the other hand, when I'm elected president, what we'll do--
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Bring down costs, increase the security and stability financially of your family, and expand opportunity for working- and middle-class Americans.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was Vice President Harris, today, in Raleigh, needling Donald Trump, and laying out, in the clearest terms, yet, her economic message.
At one point, speaking to people, who may often be tired of hearing, the economy is doing so well, look at the unemployment rate, look at the stock market, so often, but still can't pay their bills.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: New numbers this week alone show that inflation is down under 3 percent.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Still, we know that many Americans don't yet feel that progress in their daily lives. Costs are still too high. And on a deeper level, for too many people, no matter how much they work, it feels so hard to just be able to get ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Harris, today, proposing tax cuts for the middle-class, reducing grocery costs, relieving the crushing burden that so many feel on medical debt, and also giving $25,000 to first-time homebuyers, to help with their downpayment. Of course, it all sounds great. A big question still, tonight, is how to pay for that. Donald Trump, for his part, has also yet to lay out a detailed plan. He has now promised remarks on the economy, twice, this week alone. And while he is sticking to the script at times, he also spent a lot of time in that same state that Harris was just in, in North Carolina, lobbing personal attacks, directed at her.
He'll have a chance to do both, again, potentially at a rally that was just added to his schedule, on Monday, counter-programming against the Democratic National Convention, when it starts. The stated focus of Trump's event? The economy.
Our political Dream Team is here, live, to talk about this all, on this Friday night, on THE SOURCE.
It's great to have every one of you.
Mr. Mayor. I mean, seeing these two messages, just days apart. Obviously Trump's was kind of a prebuttal to what we heard from Harris today. Neither one exactly comprehensive.
What did you make of the contrast and what you heard from them?
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Well, what I'm seeing is Kamala Harris continuing to expand the impact that her campaign is having.
In other words, the first few weeks, she was new, she was different. It was a relief, for a lot of people, with all due respect to President Biden, that there was a new candidate. But now, she's filling in the blanks very, very effectively.
And she's not just talking about the economy. She's talking about in a way that actually gets to people's hearts. Look, voting is extremely emotional. When she says, I'm going after price gouging, which is a perfect message, from a former prosecutor, a former attorney general, that's the kind of thing people want to hear. They've been suffering, and they feel like elites just don't get it.
[21:05:00]
And so, now we're seeing a Kamala Harris, who is compassionate, gets what people are going through, but is also talking about doing something tough about it.
COLLINS: Well, what do you make Jamal, though, of what a lot of the Trump campaign people are tweeting, tonight, which are clips from that speech, of her talking about where things stand now, and saying, this is basically an ad for us, because it's saying here's how far behind families still feel, because of prices that they're paying, at the gas -- at the grocery store, at the gas station, for housing.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRES. BIDEN, FORMER SR. COMMUNICATIONS AIDE, BIDEN WHITE HOUSE: Yes, first, I couldn't stop laughing, when you were talking about President Trump doing another economy speech. It's like it's infrastructure week, again, and we're just going to -- maybe this time, we'll actually talk about the economy.
Look, I think what was important about what the Vice President did today was a couple things. First of all, she's somebody, who really lives this, right, unlike maybe President Biden, who is a great person. But she has family, and she has friends, who are going through this, right now.
People who have kids, who are in school, her -- and she has family members, who are in elementary school. And she's got people who are trying to start their businesses, and buy their first homes. So, these aren't things she has to read in a report. At night, when people call her, her friends and her family, these are the concerns that they raise.
COLLINS: So, you think she's a better messenger potentially than Biden on this?
SIMMONS: Oh, clearly she is. I mean. But regardless of, her, this sort of performance, it's something she understands, like, deeply inside of her, and I think, in a way that people probably didn't really expect, when they thought they were going to get her as a candidate.
But she did a couple things today. She talked about the middle-class, which is not something, frankly, having worked for, for a while, that she talked about a lot, talking about the middle-class.
She named -- this is Republicans talking about this. She named the prices. She talked about the price of beef in the grocery store, right? That's something I think people were looking for President Biden to do, to hear him talk about the problems they were facing.
And sometimes, people just want to feel acknowledged. And it's one of the things, frankly, Donald Trump was able to do pretty well, for the last few cycles, is he talked about the pain people were feeling, and acknowledged that. So, they said, oh, this guy actually knows what's going on, in our lives. I think she did that very well, today.
COLLINS: Was Trump able to do that this week, though? Because in his speech focused on the economy, which has long been something that he planned to run against President Biden on. I mean, he talked about some tariffs may be going up to 20 percent, which would obviously have a huge impact on consumers here at home.
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it would hurt consumers at both on cost and also supply, because all of a sudden, we wouldn't be bringing those things in, which--
COLLINS: Did his economic message even break-through though, this week? Because a lot of the focus--
HEYE: No.
COLLINS: --was on what he said about Harris--
HEYE: No. And I think--
COLLINS: --in his speech.
HEYE: I think part of it is the struggle that we're now seeing within the Trump campaign. They essentially, and I think, smartly, put props on there to keep him on message, right?
And so, when Donald Trump said, I haven't seen Cheerios in a long time. I saw Cheerios for breakfast yesterday. I bought them, this morning. I bought them, yesterday. And when I was at that grocery store, three or four times, I said, we're paying that much now for this product? That's what every American is going through, every day, whether it's a grocery store, a movie theater that they go, or don't go to, a restaurant they go or don't go to.
And this is an opportunity, for Trump, if he can stay on message and say, This is the Biden-Harris agenda. This is the result of their administration. They're still an administration together. But he has to be focused on it.
And the challenge that the Trump campaign has, right now, is you have the faction that, I think, very smartly, Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita, especially want Trump to stay focused on message. And you have the new crew that's come in, and their motto is, let Trump be Trump.
And the problem is, Trump can be disciplined, when he wants to be, but he usually doesn't want to be, and that's when things veer off track.
COLLINS: Well, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because J.D. Vance was asked about this, today, while he was out on the campaign trail, this idea of Trump needing to stay focused more on the message, which Republicans are saying, they're looking into the camera here, when they're on with us, and saying, Please, please focus on the issues.
This is what Senator Vance had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think the President needs to pivot. And if I told him that, I can guess what he'd say.
I'd much rather have a political candidate, who I disagreed with 25 percent of the time, but was a real human being, and was willing to speak off the cuff, than to have somebody like Kamala Harris, who hides behind a teleprompter, and doesn't speak to the American people directly, unless she's got a script in front of her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRETCHEN CARLSON, CO-FOUNDER OF "LIFT OUR VOICES": Yes, but there's a big difference between speaking to the people, and insulting them 100 percent of the time.
And I think that he sucked all the air out of anything he talked about, with regard to the economy, this week, because he continues to call her the wrong name, and mispronounce it, and continues to lob insults at her.
I thought she was very effective, today, in sprinkling in her personal story, how she worked at McDonald's, and how her mom saved for 10 years to be able to buy her first house.
But I have to be honest. Look, she's not going to own up to the policies that Biden and Harris had together. She needs to pivot from that. And that was smart.
She sounded a little bit like a Republican today. She was calling about cutting regulations, and cutting other things that are kind of out of Donald Trump's playbook. And this is the same person, who in 2019, was completely against fracking.
So, I think it's really important for her to continue to give messages to the American public, because they don't know her that well.
And what Donald Trump is going to continue to do is call her what he called her today. Comrade Kamala goes full communist.
[21:10:00]
She needs to continue to speak to the American people, pivot away from some of those more extreme policies, and try to apply herself to independents.
HEYE: And seriously here's--
SIMMONS: And think about what happens, when you're -- when you're in the vice presidency. When she was attorney general, she used to investigate companies, right? Like that's the job. You go after them for fraud. She talked about some of that now.
But now, over the course of the last couple of years, she's meeting with companies. She's looking at what's happening abroad. She's looking at tariff and trade questions, going around, and actually seeing small businesses, and how they grow.
I think over the last couple of years, you've seen an American politician and leader, really grow into this job, in a way that now we're seeing the fruit of, as she travels around the country.
DE BLASIO: But--
SIMMONS: And people react to her.
DE BLASIO: But I also got to tell you. I hear your point about him calling her comrade, now. That's dated, like that is not what the people--
CARLSON: I'm not saying I agree with it.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
CARLSON: I'm saying that, on the one hand, she sounded like a Republican to me, in parts of what she said today. But he's going to call her communist.
DE BLASIO: Yes, but I'm saying when he does it, it makes him sound totally out of touch, first of all, because it's entirely different world. It's not the Cold War anymore.
But more importantly, here's someone -- I think this is what Kamala Harris is doing very, very well. Folks are angry. They feel that they have been left behind, these recent years, by both parties, in many ways. They feel that they have been suffering the pandemic, to say the least. But they see these prices go up.
And unfortunately for Joe Biden, Bidenomics, he had a point on the bigger scheme of things, perhaps. But it sounded out of touch with people's lived experience.
Where she comes in and says, Hey, there's -- this is Corporate America taking advantage of you.
If he wants to call that communist, he can do that all day long, because the typical voter's pissed off at Corporate America, because they see these prices go crazy.
So, if he says, No, that's the Biden administration? And she says, No, that's the company with the label, the thing you're holding in your hand, that cost too much money? She has a chance to make her message get through.
COLLINS: Well, Doug, and you make an interesting point about the people around Trump. And those who, the Susie Wiles that have a very well-executed plan. They've been around him, ever since he basically left office.
And others who are -- we're seeing others come back into the fold, people like Corey Lewandowski, someone who is a senior adviser on his campaign, back in 2016. It is now Trump confirming that he's back in the fold.
What does that tell you about what's happening inside that campaign?
HEYE: Yes. I know Jamal is going to agree with me on this. Any time a campaign has a little bit of trouble, the candidate reaches out to somebody from the past, somebody that he trusts--
SIMMONS: Yes.
HEYE: --somebody that's sort of a security blanket for them. That's what's happening right now.
And I'll tell you. I was so heartened to hear what J.D. Vance said about somebody who disagrees with me 25 percent of the time, I'm OK with.
Because every House Republican conference meeting, I was in, the rise of the Freedom Caucus was anybody who disagrees with me 25 percent of the time is a heretic, right? Vance is right. But the challenge that they face is, as Kamala Harris is morphing into this new role is, how do we criticize her? Is she the flip-flopper, to your point, about fracking, and so many issues, over the past week or two, where she's come to a very new place? Or is she the committed radical leftist? They can't be both simultaneously.
COLLINS: Well--
HEYE: You have to pick one.
COLLINS: That's a great point. Because the question also is, what this is going to look like, on the debate stage, not just when they're both in the same state.
DE BLASIO: You're right.
COLLINS: Trump has brought in Tulsi Gabbard to help him with debate prep.
HEYE: Never in a Republican -- House Republican conference meeting, just to be clear.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
HEYE: She was always in the Democratic meetings, most--
COLLINS: Yes, she left the Democratic Party, two years ago, obviously ran in the primary.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
COLLINS: So, but they viewed her as successful against Harris, on the debate stage, because of moments like this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: It's unfortunate that we have someone, on the stage, who is attempting to be the Democratic nominee for President of the United States, who, during the Obama administration, spent four years, full- time, on Fox News, criticizing President Obama.
TULSI GABBARD, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE (D-HI): What Senator Harris is doing is unfortunately continuing to traffic in lies, and smears, and innuendos, because she cannot challenge the substance of the argument that I'm making, the leadership and the change that I'm seeking to bring.
HEYE: I spent my entire career, standing mostly in a courtroom, speaking five words. Kamala Harris, for the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DE BLASIO: See, that's where I think the Republicans going to be in a -- will be in a box here.
A former prosecutor, as the main candidate, and then the football coach, National Guardsman, as the vice presidential candidate. You cannot paint them as communists. You cannot paint them as radicals. I mean, for God's sakes, if Tim Walz is a radical, then the whole country is radical.
The Republicans can't try to play othering of Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. It's not going to work.
CARLSON: But that's why she needs to do more debates.
DE BLASIO: Right, I agree.
CARLSON: The fact that she announced this week that she's only doing this one debate, on September 10th, I think, is a huge mistake.
DE BLASIO: I'm with you.
CARLSON: Because people do not know her.
COLLINS: And behind-the-scenes that seems kind of--
CARLSON: And if she wants to get away from the impression of what he's going to paint her as, as an extremist?
DE BLASIO: Yes.
CARLSON: She needs to get to the heart of the American people, and tell them that she's not like that.
[21:15:00]
Her line today, new way forward. I mean, she really is trying to go out, and get away from the blame that maybe the Biden administration faced, for where we are in the economy.
HEYE: And when so much of the country--
COLLINS: Should she do multiple debates?
DE BLASIO: Right.
HEYE: --feels that we're moving in the wrong direction, your roadmap for the Trump campaign is there for you. People are mad about prices. Don't say inflation or transitory. Say prices and costs. They're mad about the border. Talk about those things. The other stuff and the mispronunciations, sideshows.
SIMMONS: Let's remember, she hasn't done a debate since she talked to Mike Pence, four years ago. So, Democrats have a little bit of an expectation that she's going to leave Donald Trump, in a puddle of tears, going, I didn't order the code red, I ordered the code red. But that's probably not what's going to happen, in the course of that debate.
DE BLASIO: She's going to say convicted felon--
SIMMONS: But so let's say she's going to-- DE BLASIO: --over and over.
SIMMONS: Yes. She's going to be fine. She's going to be fine.
DE BLASIO: And she's going to win with just that.
SIMMONS: But we need to all level-set our expectations. And let's remember this. This debate is not going to be, and not just the debate, but the rest of this campaign, is not really going to be about just the economy. It's going to be about abortion rights.
CARLSON: I was just going to say it.
SIMMONS: It's going to be about democracy. So, the economy is a piece of it. But it's not all of it.
COLLINS: Yes. What is it? 80 days left?
SIMMONS: That's right.
COLLINS: 80 more panels for us to talk about this.
CARLSON: We're almost there.
DE BLASIO: There we go.
HEYE: Already.
COLLINS: Everyone. Thank you for being here, on a Friday night.
Meanwhile, the stage is set, next week, for the biggest week of Vice President Harris' political career. What to expect at the upcoming Democratic convention? Our source is one of Harris' top allies, on Capitol Hill.
And also tonight, we'll be joined by a Trump ally, from Capitol Hill, as well, a decorated veteran, amid the backlash that Trump is facing, over the remark he made about Medal of Honor recipients.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Some 50,000 people are expected to descend, on Chicago, next week, as the Democratic National Convention kicks off on Monday. It will be one of the biggest moments, if not the biggest moment of Vice President Harris' political career, accepting the nomination of her party, formally.
This will happen at the United Center, where most of the primetime events are going to be here, as you're seeing on this map. Preparations have been underway, for months. And they are essentially inside and out, when it comes to security. Officials have put up protective fencing, closed off streets, not just as they normally would, but also in anticipation of protest over the war in Gaza.
My source, tonight, is Democratic congressman, Dan Goldman, of New York.
Congressman, it's great to have you.
Because obviously, as we're looking big picture, at this convention, Cook County, Illinois, which is where Chicago is, it's home to the largest Palestinian population, in the United States.
And I wonder, are you worried that protest over the unhappiness about how the Biden-Harris administration has handled this war in Gaza, its position on Israel, that that could disrupt the convention next week.
REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): I don't think it will. I certainly hope it won't.
I think that there are some folks, on the extreme left, who would like for us to abandon our ally, Israel.
And while we all recognize that what is happening in Gaza is just devastating and awful to see, we have to stand by our democratic ally, Israel. And make sure that Israel has a right to exist, and that the Palestinians can have self-determination for themselves. And that's not with a terrorist organization, who is leading them.
And I think that's the message that the party will be promoting, next week, on what is a hot-button issue, to be sure, but hopefully not one that disrupts the convention.
COLLINS: Well, we've seen how Harris now as the top of the ticket has handled this.
There was the one rally, where the protesters began to interrupt, and she said something along the lines, well, if you want to get Donald Trump elected, keep going.
And then, at another moment, she stopped, to address the fact that she wanted a ceasefire, wanted the hostages to be brought home. Kind of took the moment to address them head-on.
How should she handle it, next week, if that happens, do you think?
GOLDMAN: Well, I don't -- I assume it will not happen.
I think she's been handling it very well. She's open to all discussions. But she's been very clear about what her policy is, and that we are not going to abandon Israel. We will support Israel, and its right to exist, and its right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state. And that she is not going to waver from that.
But it is important to recognize that we have a massive threat within, and that is Donald Trump. And we have to beat Donald Trump, to preserve our democracy at home. And yes, we must focus on democracy abroad, in Israel and Ukraine.
But the threats of Donald Trump and his Project 2025 agenda will be absolutely devastating, to the Palestinian community, in Cook County, and Arab Americans around the country. And so, we all need to unify and rally behind Vice President Harris, even if we may disagree about some of the details, because the alternative is so much worse.
COLLINS: She's been the Vice President, obviously, for three-and-a- half years now.
But Thursday night, when she gives her speech, it's going to be a major opportunity for her. I mean, inarguably, probably the biggest moment of her political career.
And I wonder, as you look at that, and you see that, what you want to hear from her, on that stage, in what is going to be such an important moment for her.
GOLDMAN: I want to hear what she's -- what she's been doing. She has brought a positive, joyful energy to what was somewhat of a drudgery of a campaign, to this point.
And she has a positive, powerful vision and message. And part of that was released today, with her economic policy, to address rising costs for middle-income and middle-class families throughout the country.
[21:25:00]
And it is the Democrats, who are lowering those costs, who are lowering prescription drug prices, who are lowering housing costs, who are putting more money in Americans' pockets, so they can pay for child care and put food on the table. That is what the Democrats stand for. And Vice President Harris has been brilliant at expressing that message. I believe she will do it again, next week.
And you have a vision, a hopeful vision of solutions, of lifting all Americans up, across the entire spectrum, versus fear, division and hate, from Donald Trump, and trying to help billionaires, while hurting the middle-class.
COLLINS: On that economic plan. Do you support a federal ban on price gouging on groceries?
GOLDMAN: Look, I think the price gouging is a significant issue that has to be addressed. The devil is in the details. You can certainly make a price gouging policy that continues to encourage competition, encourage growth, encourage innovation with our corporations, which is the balance that Vice President Harris talked about today.
The idea is not to tear down Corporate America. The idea is just to make sure that they are paying their fair share, and they're not taking advantage with anti-competitive conduct of working Americans, everyday Americans, who have to buy food.
And if there's some sort of anti-competitiveness that raises the prices, even though inflation is down under 3 percent now, as she pointed out today, then that's a problem, and we need to address that.
And I think some of the ideas that she announced, today, are going to make a big difference, for the vast majority of Americans, and allow people to chase and succeed in achieving the American Dream, and buying a home-- COLLINS: Yes.
GOLDMAN: --and raising a family.
COLLINS: Yes, we just, you know, we heard from some -- Jason Furman. He was a top economist for Obama, who said he actually thinks there's just no upside to a policy like that, only really downside, for a ban on price gouging for groceries.
GOLDMAN: Maybe. I mean, look, you -- I understand Jason's perspective. Because where do you -- where do you end this? What are the details, like how do you define price gouging?
COLLINS: Yes.
GOLDMAN: I mean, that will be something that we'll have to work through.
But the flip side is Donald Trump's tariffs, which, as Vice President Harris said, is a national sales tax, and will increase grocery prices even more, will increase all sorts of costs, for everyday Americans, far, far more, while he benefits his buddies in the billionaire class.
COLLINS: Congressman Dan Goldman, thank you for joining us.
GOLDMAN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Speaking of Donald Trump, he has set off a new storm after he suggested that the nation's highest civilian honor is, quote, much better than the nation's highest military honor.
We're going to talk to a Gold Star father, who tragically lost his son in Iraq, right after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Donald Trump is facing backlash, tonight, from members of the military, and Democrats, after comparing the Medal of Freedom, which is awarded to civilians, and the Medal of Honor, which is the nation's highest military honor.
Trump says the civilian award is better, in his view, because the military award is often given to those wounded or killed in combat. Trump made these comments, as he honored a Republican mega donor with whom he awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We gave Miriam the Presidential Medal of Freedom. That's the highest award you can get as a civilian. It's the equivalent of the Congressional Medal of Honor, but civilian version.
It's actually much better, because everyone gets the Congressional Medal of Honor -- that's soldiers. They're either in very bad shape because they've been hit so many times by bullets, or they're dead.
She gets it, and she's a healthy, beautiful woman. It's like--
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: And they're rated equal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Here with us now, Khizr Khan, a Gold Star father, whose son, a U.S. soldier, was killed in Iraq in 2004.
Mr. Khan himself received the Medal of Freedom, I should note, from President Biden, in 2022. And he spoke famously, at the 2016 Democratic National Convention.
Mr. Khan, I'm so glad you're here tonight. Thank you, for being here, and just to speak on this, given everything that you've been through.
When you heard what Trump said there, what was your reaction?
KHIZR KHAN, FATHER OF FALLEN U.S. ARMY CAPT. HUMAYUN KHAN: Kaitlan, thank you.
I was saddened and appalled. That's typical Trump hate and division.
These awards are acknowledgement of a grateful nation, of the service of the recipient. And to create a division and comparison. Each award has its own significance, and we must honor the recipients, and equally.
But that's beyond Trump. He must create controversy, and divide, and create hate. And it was -- it was very sad to see him do this. But I was not surprised. Trump is being himself. He is -- he has inherent contempt of men and women, serving in uniform, and those who have served.
[21:35:00]
If you allow me to remind your audience. In 2018, in Paris, when he went to participate in the commemoration of 100th anniversary of end of World War I, and that's where he said, and all media reported that he called our heroes, suckers and losers.
And the second time in -- on Memorial Day, in 2017, when he visited Arlington National Cemetery, with then-Homeland Secretary and, later on, his Chief of Staff, General Kelly, where General Kelly's young son, Lieutenant Kelly is buried. And my son is buried in Section 60. He stood there, and asked Kelly, what is in it for them? Meaning, that he has no comprehension, what sacrifice and service to country means.
So, time after time, he has proven that he has no capacity or capability. He is nothing but ego and appetite.
COLLINS: Well--
KHAN: So, everywhere you see him speak, that is what is on display.
COLLINS: Well, and anyone who's ever been to Section 60, at Arlington National Cemetery, is humbled, just to -- just to stand there, and to witness it.
And so, I just, you know, obviously, as was well-documented in 2016, Donald Trump has never served in the military. His running mate, Senator J.D. Vance, has.
I just want you to respond to what Senator Vance had to say about this comment. This is it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: I myself am a Marine Corps veteran of the Iraq War.
This is a guy, who loves our veterans and who honors our veterans. I don't think him complimenting and saying a nice word, about a person, who received the Presidential Medal of Freedom, is in any way denigrating those who received military honors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You don't agree with that, I take it?
KHAN: Well, I humbly ask, first, we salute all of our veterans that have served, and their families, for their service and their sacrifice, including Senator Vance.
But he needs to look little closer, little closer to himself. His presidential candidate. I'm saddened to say this, that in 234-year history of United States, there had not been a President, or a former President, who has been indicted with felony charges.
The President that he represents, he meaning J.D. Vance, represents, has been indicted, 34 times, convicted 34 times of 34 felonies. It's an American -- it's an embarrassment to United States, and our democracy that our -- one of our candidate, is convicted, 34 times convicted felon.
The world looks at us. We are a beacon of democracy and rule of law. That we have a person, like Donald Trump, as our candidate for president. It's a sad moment. History will ask today's -- where is Republican leadership today that has allowed this to happen?
In the last three elections, to conclude my comments, in the last three presidential elections--
COLLINS: Yes.
KHAN: That is all Republicans have? Donald Trump? He had been candidate, and he won that election in 2016. And then 2020. And then 2024. They only have one candidate that keeps popping up again and again, and they cannot?
I note, Republicans are as patriotic as anyone else, and they have amazing leaders. And they need to reconsider this. And it's a historical mistake in the making. And they can stop it, by removing him from the candidacy.
COLLINS: I don't think that's happening anytime soon.
Mr. Khan, as always, thank you for your time.
KHAN: Thank you.
COLLINS: We'll get reaction next from a Bronze Star and Purple Heart recipient, and Republican, supporting Donald Trump in Congress.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: You just heard from Gold Star father, Khizr Khan, responding to comments made by the former President, saying that the Medal of Freedom is much better than the Medal of Honor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHAN: I was not surprised. Trump is being himself. He is -- he has inherent contempt of men and women, serving in uniform, and those who have served.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My next source knows a lot about serving in military sacrifice.
Brian Mast is a decorated U.S. Army veteran, who served in Afghanistan as an Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician. In 2010, he lost both of his legs, when an IED exploded in Kandahar. Six years later, he was elected to Congress, as a Republican, from Florida. And he joins me now.
And Congressman. One, thank you for your service. And thank you for being here.
[21:45:00]
I want to get your take on what you heard from Mr. Khan there.
REP. BRIAN MAST (R-FL): The exact opposite of what Mr. Khan said. He said hate, numerous times, about what President Trump said.
What President Trump said, was insightful. There's nobody that goes and seeks to win a Medal of Honor. There's no service member that says, I'm going to go out there, and I'm going to get that Medal of Honor. Because it's something that you earn, because of the valor that you show under the most deadly combat circumstances.
Nobody wants that, just like nobody wants a Purple Heart. It's not a celebration of an event, when it's bestowed around your neck. It's a celebration of the valor of the individual, but not of that event. So, I would beg that question to all of America. Many people seek to get a Presidential Medal of Freedom. They try to get it. They celebrate getting it.
Nobody seeks to get a Medal of Honor. I would say, yes, it is better to get that. It's certainly a higher honor to receive the Medal of Honor, because you served in combat. But the President -- Presidential Medal of Freedom is something that people really want to get. That's a distinct difference.
COLLINS: Do you really think it's something though, that, to be compared, even given the differences that you just laid out there, and who receives these medals?
MAST: I think it's a fair comparison, when you're talking to the general population, most of whom have never served in the military, and try to anecdotally explain this is how high this medal is for the civilian population. It's the highest medal that you can earn, as a civilian, in the United States of America.
The Medal of Honor is the highest medal that you can earn as a member of the military.
But the fact of the matter is, I'm glad that this debate is actually taking place, because I hope that this election, in general, comes down to the American people, trying to judge whether Trump and Vance are the better party, for the military, and the veterans, given everything that's going on, or whether Harris and Walz are.
Because I think that's a fight that President Trump and J.D. Vance win every single day, given what's gone on with the withdrawal from Afghanistan. With Walz's, let's call, falsifying numerous parts of his service. No honor in that. And the list could go on and on. I think that fight's a battle we want to have all day long.
COLLINS: Well, and I should note, Governor Walz clarified on his service, when it came to his rank. I mean, I think that was the only thing. And carrying weapons of war, the comment that he made, in that.
MAST: No.
COLLINS: He did clarify -- the campaign did clarify that, Congressman.
MAST: He abandoned his service members.
COLLINS: But can I ask you -- but can I ask you? We've heard--
MAST: He abandoned his service members, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: We've heard from people who served with him, who said they don't share that view.
But I want to ask about what Donald Trump said, because you're supporting him. And what do you say, though, to families, who think it's an insult, the way Trump described it, is just being much better to get that. I mean, the two things are very different. Who receives these medals, as you know, better than anyone, is such a different distinction.
MAST: I have a Purple Heart, and I have a Bronze Star. I don't want a Purple Heart. Nobody went out there saying, please, man, send me to the battlefield, so I can get that Purple Heart. It's the medal that nobody wants, because you have to get shot, or you have to get blown up.
And you think about the circumstances. President Trump knows very insightfully, the individuals that he put that medal around their neck. He had the conversations with them in the Oval Office. He knows what took place in combat, in order for that event to take place, where he was awarding that medal. It is not a light moment.
And that is an insightful thing to talk about. Hey, listen, you would much rather have this over here, this Presidential Medal of Freedom. You'd much rather have that. Because you don't have to go into combat. And most of the people that get this, they don't come back alive.
I saw the comments that the VFW made, blasting President Trump about this. They're so far off-base. I think they're playing politics with this as well.
Looking at the fact that the President respects our service members. Every single one of them that I've seen come in contact with, he goes out there, he speaks to them. He learns about their service. Where were they? What did they do? Guys that don't have legs. Hey, how are those legs doing for you? Do you see other people that get those in the civilian world? He asks things about people, because he cares about our veterans. And I see it day in, day out.
COLLINS: But Congressman, I think maybe people would see this differently, if it didn't come in the context of the other comments, Trump has made, about John McCain, and saying he prefers soldiers, who aren't captured in war.
What John Kelly -- General Kelly confirmed that Trump did make the comment about losers and suckers, when he was in that Paris -- on that Paris trip in 2018.
And I think it's the wider context of comments that people around him, and that we've heard him, make himself like, about, John McCain, respectively, denigrating military service.
MAST: He does not denigrate our military. He loves our military. They are the party -- we are the party. President Trump is the candidate, J.D. Vance is the candidate that want to make sure our individuals, that their service is not squandered, like what happened with the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
[21:50:00]
Harris and Biden, they squandered the service, of every veteran that served in Afghanistan, because of that withdrawal, because they failed to talk about the failures that this -- exists there. They look at us as disposables.
COLLINS: Well, I'm not sure that's fair to say, Congressman.
MAST: I think it's fair -- they see us as disposable. When President Biden goes out onto a tarmac, checks his watch, does it -- they're seeing us as disposable individuals.
COLLINS: OK. Congressman?
MAST: When they don't calculate the cost of war, for when you come home.
Right now, let's talk about a factual thing. If you're in the VA, right now, and you're getting care for mental health counseling, in the community, the Harris-Biden administration is trying to strip you of your community care. They want you to come back into the VA, no matter the wait times.
COLLINS: But Congressman, we have--
MAST: That's the population, most vulnerable--
COLLINS: I have to stop you.
MAST: --of 22 veterans a day suicide.
COLLINS: But Congressman.
MAST: That's the Harris-Biden administration.
COLLINS: I think you could disagree with them on policy. Disagree with them on the Afghanistan exit. We've had plenty of Republicans here, who have.
But to say that President Biden doesn't appreciate military service, given his son, I think you would agree, that's an unfair comment.
MAST: I wouldn't say that at all given a -- we're comparing -- you're talking about words that--
COLLINS: To say that he takes it for granted is not fair.
MAST: You're talking about words of President Trump versus literal actions of the Biden administration. Again, and I'll use these words, they got out there, and they treat our service--
COLLINS: His son served in the military, Congressman.
MAST: His son did serve in the military. But he's treating the rest of the military, like we are disposable. And we are not. And that's the way that his administration has treated service members, on the battlefield, and those that came home, as though we're disposable items that you can get rid of.
COLLINS: I think that there are certainly people, who would disagree with that, and the fact that his son served as well.
Congressman Brian Mast, thank you for your time, tonight. MAST: Take care.
COLLINS: Up next for us. He would not lie for Donald Trump, or help him overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. The Secretary of State there, you all know his name, Brad Raffensperger, is now fighting an expensive legal battle, for telling the truth.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, who stood up to Trump's election lies in 2020, finds himself fighting a defamation lawsuit that has now cost him at least half a million dollars so far.
A woman named Jacki Pick sued Raffensperger, after she presented a video, to Georgia state lawmakers that she claimed showed election fraud, in 2020.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKI PICK, PLAINTIFF, SUED GEORGIA'S SECRETARY OF STATE, BRAD RAFFENSPERGER: So, I'm Jacki Pick, and I'm here as a volunteer.
And going to explain to you the evidence that we have from State Farm Arena, here in Fulton County, which goes to what Ray was talking about in terms of fraud or misrepresentation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But the claims of fraud, in that surveillance video, have been widely debunked, including by Raffensperger's own office. He wrote later, in his book, that the video was deceptively sliced and edited.
Now, he did not name her in that book. But she now says that she was defamed by him, because of that.
CNN's Legal Analyst, Joey Jackson, is here to talk about this.
Most fascinating part of this story is that The New York Times says that Miss Pick's attorneys let it be known that if he wanted to settle the case, he would first have to say publicly that her presentation of the video was not deceptive.
Basically, he'd have to lie.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He would. And that would be highly problematic, right?
Remember what defamation is. Defamation is a false statement which is injurious, injures your reputation, and causes you damage.
And so, lot of problems with the lawsuit. First of all, we know that it was filed in Texas, and it was dismissed. Was refiled in Georgia, of course. But that was a jurisdictional issue. I'm talking about on the merits, right? Because you can make the argument that this was a claim of opinion. An opinion, of course, is protected.
The other thing is that she's not even named, with regard to the book. Her name is not even noted.
Now, technically, legally, right? You have this doctrine called, of and concerning. So if I say something like, you know, I was on TV the other night, and it was 9 o'clock, and it was CNN. We know who we're speaking about.
But I think that she's got to prove a lot of things, since she wasn't specifically depicted. How were you impugned? How, you know, what ended up happening to you?
And I think at the end of the day, Kaitlan, this is majorly frivolous.
COLLINS: OK. So you think he'll win out?
JACKSON: I do. I do. On the merits.
COLLINS: But here's the -- OK, so he might win. But he has spent half a million dollars of his own money. It's not like -- you know, the Georgia State Republican Party is spending a ton of money, on legal fees, for people on the other side of the aisle.
JACKSON: Yes.
COLLINS: But in a statement that Secretary Raffensperger sent to me, tonight, he said, "Let me be clear -- I will not be pressured into agreeing to a false narrative of events." He confirmed he incurred over half a million dollars in legal fees.
But he said " Not every election official is going to be able to withstand that type of pressure. This should send alarms to every election official across the country."
JACKSON: And it should. Because courts of law shouldn't be courts of political grievances and retribution. They have to be about meritorious claims. And there are actually issues that courts have, when you file claims that are not meritorious. And so, I'm sure there will be a motion to dismiss. There will be a sanctions motion. And--
COLLINS: Yes. He did motion to dismiss, I think--
JACKSON: Yes.
COLLINS: --on Tuesday.
JACKSON: And so, to the extent that a court finds that it may be frivolous, you know what? There could be problems with regard to the person, who filed the lawsuit. And so, that's the way the court kind of pushes back. You can file what you want. Lawyers certainly are creative. You're certainly, as a lawyer, meant to be and should be creative. But if you extend it too far, and you do things that are not within bounds of legally what's proper, you can end up in big trouble in filing a claim.
COLLINS: So, could he end up be counter-suing to get his legal fees back? How does that work?
JACKSON: So, what happens is, is that you file a sanctions motion, right? And so, I mean, his larger picture is it's a really big deal, because what he's saying is, I'm resourced to deal with this. There are people, who are getting lawsuits filed against them, who don't have a half a million dollars to spend.
COLLINS: Yes.
JACKSON: And so, how it looks, as opposed to a counter-suit, you file not only a motion to dismiss, but you file a motion for sanctions, to the extent that the lawsuit doesn't have merit. And that's really a determination that's made by the court. And if it's made in your favor, sanctions could be significant.
COLLINS: Yes. It's just remarkable to see this. I mean, and as we look at the broader picture of all these election officials, who come under attack.
[22:00:00]
JACKSON: It's not civil anymore, right? I mean, used to have agreements and disagreeing, it'll be OK. Now, if you don't wear this stripe, or that stripe, you're vilified. That's a problem.
COLLINS: Yes, if you don't agree with my claims of fraud that aren't true, well, sue you.
Joey Jackson, it's always great to have you. Thank you for that.
JACKSON: Thank you.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much, for joining us, tonight.
We will be live, from Chicago, on the convention floor, of the Democratic convention, all next week. Be sure to tune in here, to CNN.
For now, "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" begins.
