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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Milton Closes In On Florida As Category 5 Hurricane; Romney Won't Endorse Harris, Wants "More Influence" To Rebuild GOP; Biden: Hurricane Misinformation Is "Un-American." Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 08, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: And also we're starting an online grief community where you can hear from others living with grief and share your own experiences as well. Thousands of you have sent in voicemails, in both seasons of the podcast. I've listened to all of them. A number of them are online at cnn.com/all- there-is online.
You can also leave comments, and stories of your own, and connect with others in your grief, and I hope it makes you feel a little less lonely in your grief.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
A monster storm is closing in on Florida. Hurricane Milton back to a Category 5 now, as we've got the latest track, and we'll take you inside this storm with a Hurricane Hunter.
Also, secret calls and special deliveries. What Donald Trump was reportedly sneaking to Vladimir Putin as a pandemic was ravaging the United States, and how many calls they've had since Trump left office. CNN has the new details from Bob Woodward's new book.
And Vice President Harris, tonight, initially drawing a blank when she was asked what she would do differently than President Biden. And then, one notable change came to mind.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Florida is about to get battered for the second time in about as many weeks. That much we know for sure, tonight, as forecasters saying that this storm could weaken, but it is expected to double in size.
What we don't know for sure, tonight, is exactly where this monster storm is going to make a direct hit. That's why tonight, more than a million people have been ordered to evacuate. Forecasters, Florida's governor, mayors, up and down that state, are pleading with people not to mess around with this one.
The storm is now expected to hit as early as tomorrow night, but Floridians are going to start to feel it way before then. And tonight, you're seeing roads and highways jammed. About a fifth of Florida's gas stations are now without gas. In Fort Myers, up to 70 percent of the stations there have run out of fuel altogether. That's before the storm has even hit.
So, if you're watching, right now, and you're in an area that has been ordered to evacuate. Officials say that now is the time. That if you try and wait until tomorrow, you may end up trapped with no power for days or longer, or your home or your car swept away by a storm surge.
CNN's Isabel Rosales joins me now from Tampa, Florida, which obviously is what we have been talking about, Isabel, that it is expected to be one of the hardest-hit ones. We heard from the Mayor, last night.
People are still cleaning up from Helene there. How concerned are they about another bigger storm hitting, this close, behind that one?
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a major concern and a race against time to evacuate. That window is narrowing, Kaitlan.
Listen, this is a one-two punch for the Tampa Bay area. Sure, Helene went forward up until the Big Bend area, up north. And that was a wake-up call for just how devastating that could be with landfall nowhere near this area.
Now, with this storm, with Milton, some here in the Tampa Bay area are wondering, is this the storm that they have been dreading for decades that could come right here to the Tampa Bay area? We'll know soon enough, as those tracks continue to shift. And that's normal as we get closer to this thing.
But what we have seen is major concern about the figures of storm surge, right? Because with Helene, that was five- to eight-feet of storm surge around the Tampa Bay. Well, with Milton, we're looking at double that, potentially. We're looking at 10 to 15 feet, that it is unsurvivable conditions. This is why people have been so concerned.
Let me also show you a hidden danger here. This house that looks totally charred, burned down. Well, neighbors pointed me to this house. They told me that an EV caught fire here, and burned this to a crisp. We confirmed with the Tampa Fire Rescue, who told us, here in Davis Islands, a home did go down, they couldn't confirm the exact address, because of an electric vehicle.
So, as people are evacuating, if they're leaving behind electric vehicles, or they're hunkering down, this is a big concern, because salt water and EV batteries do not mix. This can cause very dangerous and sudden battery fires. And we're seeing right here the impact. Somebody lost their home, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes. This was something I didn't even think about earlier, until I saw the warning from officials in Florida, saying, If you have an electric vehicle, get it out of the way. Because of exactly that house behind you.
Isabel Rosales, on the ground in Tampa. We'll check back in with you, as we get updates throughout the hour.
I want to also go to Chad Myers, who is in the CNN Weather Center.
And Chad, the track of this storm has changed and shifted a little bit from when we spoke, last night.
CHAD MYERS, CNN WEATHER CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
COLLINS: I think a big question that people at home are watching is, how much more could it change before it makes landfall?
MYERS: Well, it's all about the wobbles, at this point in time.
[21:05:00]
Earlier today, it wobbled about 20 miles farther to the south. So that wobble, if you take it 20 miles farther to the south, and then you take it on the same track, you've moved your landfall 20 miles farther to the south. That could still happen to, again, to the north, later on tonight.
This is a very compact little storm. I know we talk about it. Maybe it's getting larger in size, as it gets closer to the coast. But for now, this is a 165 mile per hour Category 5 hurricane that's getting more and more compact.
But you still have to watch the cone. It's north of Tampa. It's all the way down to Naples. So, that's the left and the right that still could happen by the time it makes landfall, sometime tomorrow night. I mean, we're talking from now, we're talking 35, maybe 33 hours for landfall.
We know that it's still very strong because an airplane has been flying through it. We've been talking to these pilots, these captains, these majors, all night. And what harrowing stories they talk about. Man, it was really shaking. I bet it was shaking, if you're looking at a wind speed of a 135 miles an hour, and that's a crosswind, because you're flying through the middle of the eye.
Here is the what we're going to worry about. We're talking about storm surge. And it's not just a lake of water that rises, and your house gets wet. This is moving water, moving with the surf, moving with the surge. And if you get it to eight feet above what is normal sea level, you're going to start to lose all the houses that aren't built on stilts. And we're looking at 10 to 15 feet.
And again, that's just not some calm body of water that's going to just kind of get your house wet. It's going to push your house into the bay behind the island. And then, we're going to see winds, everywhere that's purple, a 110 miles per hour or greater.
We're going to see winds all the way across the entire state of hurricane force, power lines going to be down in many big cities, and likely even toward Kissimmee and in Orlando, and then you have the potential for 10 to 20 inches of freshwater flooding, here with this rainfall too. Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, it already floods in Tampa when it's just raining, much less when it's a hurricane coming.
MYERS: Yes.
COLLINS: And just to see it reaching across the whole state, I think that's what is so scary, and why you're hearing--
MYERS: Yes.
COLLINS: --things that from -- warnings from Florida officials that say they've never had this before.
Chad Myers, thank you for keeping an eye on it.
MYERS: You're welcome.
COLLINS: And my source, tonight, is the Mayor of Treasure Island, Florida. Tyler Payne.
Thank you so much, Mayor, for being here. I know you're very busy, and your entire community is under one of those mandatory evacuation orders that we're talking about.
I want people to just listen to the warning that police are playing, as they are driving through the streets of your community, tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A local emergency currently exists. Quickly secure your home or business and safely evacuate the area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you believe that most people are listening to those warnings?
MAYOR TYLER PAYNE, TREASURE ISLAND, FLORIDA: Fortunately, I do. I was out on the island, just a couple of hours ago, and had an opportunity to drive around, and it is a ghost town. So, I was very happy to see that. People are heeding the warnings, because, as you guys have said, this could be seriously life-threatening.
The storm surge, our residents experienced it firsthand, and I think that that has gone a long ways to really drive home the message that it is not safe to stay on the island, when we're considering or when we're looking at potential devastating storm surge like this.
COLLINS: Well, given you just experienced storm surge. I mean, what would you say to people, who maybe be think -- who may be thinking, I can ride this out. I've dealt with this before. I mean, as someone who just went through it, what would you say to them?
PAYNE: Yes, walking into my parents' house, the next morning after the storm hit, and seeing literally all of the furniture, it looked like a washing machine inside the house. Nothing was where it was supposed to be. And that was only with two feet of water in the house. The house is completely destroyed.
I was receiving pictures and videos from friends that stayed -- friends and neighbors that stayed on the island, in their single- storey homes, of them sitting at their kitchen counter with their knees up to -- or water up to their knees.
And like we've discussed, if there's an electric vehicle or any sort of fire hazard in the home, it's really extremely unsafe conditions. And if we're talking 10- to 15-foot storm surge, the entire home would be underwater, there's nowhere safe to go.
COLLINS: Yes, as Chad was saying, the whole house could be pushed.
As a result of this one-two punch that we're seeing between Helene and now Milton, the state -- I know, Florida, has been surging resources to Pinellas County, to try and get rid of the debris from Hurricane Helene. I mean, you see the pictures of Treasure Island, these videos of drones flying overhead, and the amount of debris still on the ground is still remarkable.
Right now, what is the latest, in terms of how much you're worried about this debris becoming very potentially dangerous projectiles in the storm?
[21:10:00]
PAYNE: Absolutely, that's the biggest threat right now. And our city crews as well as our contractor and the governor mobilized state resources to assist with the debris cleanup, which was incredible. Seeing lines of dump trucks being escorted onto the island, by State Highway Patrol vehicles, was really a sight to see.
But there's just so much of it that is impossible to clean it all up before this hurricane hits. And like you said, those are going to become extremely dangerous, and if we're seeing 100 mile an hour winds. That's why these evacuation orders are so important, not just for the A zone that Treasure Island's in, but also B and C, because those things can fly a very -- very far distances.
COLLINS: Yes. Mayor, thank you so much for joining. I know that you and your team have to be so exhausted, from still dealing with the aftermath of one storm.
PAYNE: Yes.
COLLINS: And now dealing with another. But I really do appreciate your time. I know your community does as well. Thank you so much, Mayor.
PAYNE: Thank you. Have a good night.
COLLINS: And you heard Chad mentioning people who are flying through this storm. My next source is one of the few people, who has actually seen actually seen the force of it up close, because Captain Nate Wordal was at the controls, when the Hurricane Hunters flew into the heart of Hurricane Milton, as it's still off the coast of Florida.
And Captain Wordal joins me now.
Thank you so much.
Because Chad was saying, essentially, maybe you think you know what turbulence feels like, and then you fly through a hurricane. Can you just tell us what it was like, and what it felt like to actually be flying through this storm, up close?
CAPT. NATE WORDAL, PILOT, 53RD WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE SQUADRON, HURRICANE HUNTER: Absolutely. And thank you for having me.
Yes, a lot of people will describe it as a roller coaster going through a car wash. It can be extremely jarring. Everything is strapped down. And we can have severe turbulence, severe updrafts, downdrafts, and you're really just fighting to maintain control of the aircraft, as you go through the eyewall.
COLLINS: Well, and as you're flying through this storm. How did it compare to the other ones that you've gone through before?
WORDAL: To be honest, it was pretty violent. Milton is growing in serious intensity, very fast. And we saw some incredible wind speeds out there today, 148 miles an hour, I believe, we saw.
And some storms are not so bad, and some are just worse than others, and this just happened to be one that was pretty violent on us, and a few other crews that have flown into it so far. So, we're taking a lot of precautions when we go through, and passing along that info to everyone else following behind us.
COLLINS: Yes, and you can see, right now, we're showing video from the flight that you can see the lightning inside the storm. I mean, was that -- would you say that was -- it was increased? Was there more of that than what you're used to seeing? What was that like?
WORDAL: I would say that the amount of lightning was probably on par with what we've seen in most storms.
But lighting can be very serious, if it does hit the aircraft. We can lose our weather radar, and then we have a serious problem of not knowing exactly where the strongest part of the cells within the storm are, and really how to get out of it safely. So, it can be quite a problem.
But so far, what I saw today wasn't anything beyond out of the ordinary.
COLLINS: Given what you saw, and talking about how violent this was. If you lived somewhere where you were in an evacuation zone, would you evacuate?
WORDAL: Absolutely.
And storm surge is a very real killer. A lot of people just focus on the wind, and the rain, and really thinking about the shingles on their -- on their roof, when in reality, it's the waves coming through their door, not only through their front door, maybe their windows as well, if we're talking nine to 15 feet, whatever it might be. It's absolutely critical to get out of that area, if you need to. I highly suggest anyone that's staying behind--
COLLINS: Yes.
WORDAL: --should evacuate.
COLLINS: Captain Nate Wordal, thank you so much.
WORDAL: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. Vice President Harris is on a media tour, cracking a beer with Stephen Colbert as he says he believes this election will be won on vibes. We'll take you to that.
Also tonight, there's some muzzy reporting from Bob Woodward's new book, including what Donald Trump allegedly gave Vladimir Putin at the height of the pandemic.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Just in tonight. With exactly four weeks to go before one of the craziest elections in many of our lifetimes, Vice President Harris is out doing a media blitz, tonight, with "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert" cracking open a cold one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT, CBS: The vibe election. The vibes were all good. But elections, I think, are won on vibes. Because one of the old saws is, they just want somebody they can have a beer with.
So would -- would you like to have a beer with me so I can tell people what that's like?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
COLBERT: OK. This was--
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
COLBERT: Now, we asked ahead of time, because I can't just be giving a drink to the Vice President of the United States without asking.
You asked for Miller High Life beer.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
COLBERT: I'm just curious.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: OK. The last time I had beer was at a baseball game with Doug, so.
COLBERT: OK, so cheers. There you go.
HARRIS: OK. Cheers.
COLBERT: There you go.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
COLBERT: Ooh.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: Yes.
COLBERT: That tastes like the beautiful city of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
HARRIS: The champagne of beers.
COLBERT: There you go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources are here tonight.
Sorry, I don't have any beer for you guys.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: Oh, man.
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: But Karen, I mean, we've been watching Harris doing this. She was criticized for not doing a lot of media, certainly not traditional media.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: But she's out, she's doing these interviews. She did Howard Stern, earlier. She did "The View." We'll talk about that appearance in a moment, Alyssa.
FINNEY: Yes. COLLINS: But to see her in that moment tonight, what is -- what do you think that there -- if you're her adviser--
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: --what's that strategy look like behind-the-scenes?
FINNEY: It's about the fact that we live in a very fractured media environment, where people are choosing where and how they get their information. Unfortunately, it's not always from CNN. Although I wish it was. It's, they're watching--
COLLINS: Thank you.
FINNEY: They're on TikTok. They're watching Late Night. They're listening to podcasts that they love. They're religiously, right? They're doing -- they're in all kinds of -- they're watching The View. So, you've really got to be everywhere.
And I will say, as a communications professional, my job has changed dramatically, over the last 10, 20, years, because you really have to say to candidates, No, really, you do have to go on this podcast. Yes, really, we're going to tape this real for Instagram. And yes, I promise you, it's going to matter. Because that's where voters are. And you have to be where the voters are.
COLLINS: Yes, well, I mean, Brian, just as the Chief Media Analyst, what's your view of the strategy, and what it does look like in 2024?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: It's an all-of-the-above strategy, right? A little bit of this, little bit of that. I just wish Alyssa, you had brought beer this morning on The View. Is it too early to drink on The View? I guess, it's too early, really.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Never too early.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: I guess, it depends on your social preferences.
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: Maybe not for like college students.
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: But it's actually interesting, the beer is interesting, because Biden doesn't drink, right? Because Trump does not drink, very kind of, famously, does not drink. So, in a weird way, we're back to the George W. Bush test about, who do you want to have a beer with?
COLLINS: Yes, the old adage.
And she was at the table with you all this morning. First, what stood out to you during your conversation?
FARAH GRIFFIN: Listen, we say -- not to brag about The View -- but the road to the White House is through The View. Every president since George Bush has come on the show that's gone on to be elected, including Donald Trump.
STELTER: Right.
FARAH GRIFFIN: I mean, we've invited Trump officials on.
Listen, it's, you're reaching a different audience. We're in more than 3 million households. It's, our audience skews heavily toward women. And it's women who don't necessarily follow politics day in and day out, but they want to know the key stories people are talking about. So, it's about reaching voters, who maybe aren't glued to every detail of this election.
STELTER: Yes.
FARAH GRIFFIN: I thought it was brilliant, she went on Call Her Daddy. That's 5 million downloads a week.
I think what they're realizing is they have to flood the zone, and they're going for broke at this point. I think she should have deployed this strategy, over a month ago, to be reaching more voters. It feels like it's a little bit late. But I expect she's going to keep doing that.
FINNEY: But you know what's sort of interesting? It's like they're almost running what would be a year-long campaign in the amount of weeks we have.
STELTER: Oh.
FINNEY: Because normally, first off, you are, it's all about the vibe and the feeling and the rah, rah, rah. And you get momentum, right?
Then you start to lay out policy, right? Because you definitely want to have policy out before you're at the debate, because you want to -- you want to be able to refer to your policy when you're at the debate. They have to still keep rolling out policy, obviously, because the condensed timeframe. And then you start to do more interviews.
So, I actually think it's, if you think about what a traditional campaign over a year is like?
COLLINS: Yes.
FINNEY: It's like a condensed little accordion version.
COLLINS: Well, and that's interesting.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: And we'll see how voters view this and what they think of it. But these, obviously, these moments are important, because she's asked questions. And today, she was asked about what she would do differently than President Biden would, if she were president. This is what she said, initially.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: There is not a thing that comes to mind in terms of. And I've been a part of most of the decisions that have had impact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Moments later, Harris did think of something, and she followed up with this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: You asked me, What's the difference between Joe Biden and me? Well, that will be one of the differences. I'm going to have a Republican in my cabinet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
HARRIS: Because I don't -- I don't feel burdened by letting pride get in the way of a good idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK, Karen, you are a Democrat at the table.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: I think some people watch it and said, Really? There's nothing you'd do differently?
FINNEY: But really, you're going to go on national television and dime out your boss? I don't think so, ladies. I love The View too. But nice try, right?
I mean, and ironically, she was actually there to talk about a policy. That is a differentiator from what President Biden has done. One that I can tell you, having taken care of my father when he was dying would have been tremendously helpful. So, I wish she would have referred to that.
But yes, I didn't expect that she was going like, OK, here's my list of things. She went--
COLLINS: Yes, she's always talking about home health.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: But I think the question for some is she's still trying to appeal to those moderates, maybe disaffected Republicans.
STELTER: Yes. COLLINS: They may have actually wanted to hear her say something that--
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: I agree. She's a 60-year-old woman of color. Just everything about her radiates a difference from President Biden. I would have loved to hear her be a little more honest about the last three and a half years have been like. The reason why so many Democrats are excited about her is because she's not President Biden.
FARAH GRIFFIN: And--
COLLINS: Well, and I have to ask you, Alyssa, though, because there was this, speaking of those disaffected Republicans--
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.
COLLINS: --who are not voting for Trump, but not yet voting for Harris.
STELTER: Right. Right.
COLLINS: Mitt Romney said something super interesting today when he was asked about whether or not he's going to vote for her. This is what he had to say.
[21:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I made it very clear that I don't want Donald Trump to be the next President of the United States. And you're going to have to do the very difficult calculation of what that would mean. All right?
My own view is that I want to continue to have a voice in the Republican Party, following this election, because I think there's a good shot that the Republican Party is going to need to be rebuilt and reoriented, either after this election, or Donald Trump is reelected, after he's the president, and believe I will have more influence in the party by virtue of saying it, as I've said it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FARAH GRIFFIN: Just say you're going to vote for them.
No, listen, I think it's a perfectly defensible position. I feel similarly, as a Republican, who can't support Trump. I think a lot of us feel like our voices are most powerful in calling out the dangers of Trump, and why he shouldn't be back in the White House.
We'll leave it to people who are die-hard supporters and want to defend Kamala Harris' policies, to talk about why she should proactively be elected. But here's the thing, what she's doing that's smart is, I already saw Harris -- Republicans for Harris, shared that and said, We'll take it. They're not trying to do the like, You have to full-throatedly endorse us, or we don't want you. They want this big tent. They want the tent that's Dick Cheney to members of the Squad. So that's the way you do it.
STELTER: It's a pro-democracy coalition. I know we're not used to talking in those terms in the United States. But that's what is forming in this country. We'll see if it's broad enough.
FARAH GRIFFIN: And can I--
STELTER: But that's what's forming.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Can I mention one thing? This New York Times/Siena poll that came out over the weekend. 93 percent of Democrats are with Kamala Harris. It was about 80 percent have a favorable or pro-Trump viewpoint.
STELTER: Yes.
FARAH GRIFFIN: There's still about 20 percent of Republicans, who are not completely inclined to support Trump. We have seen this since the primary. That might be this undercurrent that we're not really measuring in this election, that could actually be what means that he's going to lose.
FINNEY: Yes.
STELTER: And he's on a media blitz, right now. But he's not trying to appeal to that 20 percent. His media blitz is very narrow.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes, Ben Shapiro ain't bringing in new folks.
STELTER: Ben Shapiro. Newsmax.
FINNEY: Yes.
STELTER: Local radio stations I've never heard of. And he's on the air saying he's been to Gaza. He's saying things that in any other campaign we would say, Is that guy delusional?
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes, the Biden answer on The View is a flub.
STELTER: But because it's Trump, we assume it's normal.
FARAH GRIFFIN: But lying that you've been to Gaza is a more significant flub.
FINNEY: That's much more significant, yes.
COLLINS: Don't worry. We're going to take a little facts--
STELTER: Oh, was that a tease, for later in the--
COLLINS: We're going to take a stroll down fact-check lane on the Gaza. So, thank you, Brian, for setting that up.
Up next though, we are going to talk about some new revelations, involving Donald Trump's relationship with Vladimir Putin. Among them, secret COVID tests that he sent him in the height of the pandemic when we could not get them as regular people in the U.S. We'll tell you more in a moment.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: What little I know about Bob Woodward is that he is -- I'm going to use -- I'm going to use a word here. He is a hack. The guy's a hack.
(APPLAUSE)
VANCE: So have I -- have I talked to Donald Trump about his calls with Vladimir Putin? No, I've never had that conversation with Donald Trump in my life.
But if Donald Trump, even if it's true, look, is there something wrong with speaking to world leaders?
AUDIENCE: No.
VANCE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We'll dig into that in a moment. That was Senator J.D. Vance, Trump's running mate, responding to stunning new details about the former President's contact with Russian President Putin after he left the White House, which has raised new questions about Trump's relationship with him, just weeks before this election.
This is all detailed in the legendary journalist Bob Woodward's new book "War," that is out next week. I should note, Woodward has been credibly breaking news since before he first reported on Watergate.
CNN's Special Correspondent, Jamie Gangel, obtained an advanced copy of the book, and is here with more revelations.
And Jamie, obviously, that was one of them about all the conversations that he's had--
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
COLLINS: --up to seven with Putin since then.
But the other part of this that you reported on this morning that was so fascinating is that, in the height of the pandemic, when Americans are struggling to get COVID tests, Putin actually -- Trump actually sent some to Putin in Russia. GANGEL: Right. And I think there are two key words here. Not only according to Woodward's book, did Trump send some to Putin. But it was a secret shipment for Putin's personal use. And what Woodward has in his book is a verbatim phone call, between Trump and Putin at the time, in which they discuss it.
So, Putin says to Trump, Please don't tell anybody you sent these to me.
Trump: I don't care. Fine.
Putin: No, no. I don't want you to tell anybody because people will get mad at you, not me. They don't care about me.
It's just a remark -- it's remarkable to have that verbatim exchange, which Woodward has there. There are a lot of transcripts, documents, other things that back up this book.
But it is sort of interesting, just to hear Russian President Putin, former KGB agent. I mean, what is going on in that exchange? Is he really concerned about Donald Trump? Is he still the KGB agent playing him? Is it--
COLLINS: Yes, it sounded like reverse psychology, to me.
GANGEL: Right. Correct, yes, yes, I think so.
COLLINS: And that that they've spoken of the seven times, Woodward reported?
GANGEL: So, this is a fascinating story. This comes, Woodward writes that a top Trump aide told him that -- this is post-presidency. So, a top Trump aide tells Woodward that Trump sends him out of the room, and tells him he has to leave, because he's about to have a phone call with the Russian president.
And according to Woodward's book, the top aide said to Woodward that there have been as many as seven calls between Trump and Putin, since he left the White House.
[21:35:00]
Now look, it is true what J.D. Vance said, that former Presidents do speak to other foreign leaders. But normally, it's not a secret. Or, they give the White House or State Department--
COLLINS: Yes.
GANGEL: --a heads-up, a courtesy of what happens.
COLLINS: That's a very, very good point.
Good reporting. Jamie Gangel, thank you.
GANGEL: Sure. COLLINS: And joining me now is the former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, and retired 4-Star Admiral James Stavridis, who has a new book out today, " The Restless Wave."
And we'll talk about that in a moment. But given you are someone, who has actually been sanctioned by the Kremlin.
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), U.S. NAVY (RET.), RETIRED 4-STAR ADMIRAL, FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER OF NATO: There you go.
COLLINS: I just wonder what you make of both of those revelations that Jamie reported on today. Including the national security implications of Donald Trump speaking to Putin, given that was at the same time, he's urging Republicans--
STAVRIDIS: Yes.
COLLINS: --not to give Ukraine any more money for its war.
STAVRIDIS: Jamie's husband, Danny Silva, is a marvelous novelist. You couldn't make up fiction like this, frankly.
And secondly, I think, as an American, you wish that instead of sending COVID tests, he would have sent him some bleach, which was his recommendation, Trump's, to take bleach, to get through everything.
In all seriousness, I worry about it a lot, as a national security practitioner.
Number one, what intelligence is Putin, a trained interrogator, a former KGB operative, what is he getting?
Number two, what a missed intelligence opportunity, for the United States, if Trump is having these conversations and not debriefing them?
And number three, now that the story breaks, as it inevitably does, Kaitlan, the optics of this are terrible for our efforts in Ukraine. Here's our former President, allegedly having seven phone calls with, arguably, enemy number one of the United States.
COLLINS: Well, and I covered Trump when he was in the White House. I remember, he wanted to prosecute John Kerry for conversations he had with Iranian officials that he did brief--
STAVRIDIS: Yes.
COLLINS: --then-Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo once. So, just to see this, is what's really remarkable about this revelation.
STAVRIDIS: It is.
And recall, of course, Trump's loose, casual carelessness with the highest levels of national security. He has multiple high-level documents recovered from Mar-a-Lago. So, it's not as though he's someone who is protecting the classified information of the United States.
And he's in, allegedly, multiple conversations, again, with a trained intelligence operative, leading a nation, with whom we have fundamental disagreement.
COLLINS: That's a good point. And as we're in this 2024 election, we heard from Harris saying that she thinks Iran is the biggest threat to the U.S., right now. J.D. Vance said today he disagrees with her that Iran's a threat, but he thinks China is a much bigger threat.
And I was thinking about your book, "The Restless Wave," because it is written about World War II, and these great powers in this battle--
STAVRIDIS: Yes.
COLLINS: --in the Pacific and modern technology -- and modern technology for then.
STAVRIDIS: Yes.
COLLINS: And it just made me think of the moment that we're in right now, and that we could be on the precipice of very soon.
STAVRIDIS: That's exactly why I wrote the book. Winston Churchill, World's Most quotable man, said, In order to look far into the future, you have to look to the past.
And your point. As we look back 80 years ago to that World War II, we don't have to imagine how apocalyptic a war between the U.S. and China, great power war in the Pacific was. We can observe it, we can look at the history. We can then reverse-engineer it, hopefully, and avoid it.
And by the way, I think China is an enormous strategic challenge to the United States. Iran is a tactical and operational challenge. It's quite possible to have two challenges at the same time.
COLLINS: Yes, which could also be a challenge in and of itself.
STAVRIDIS: Indeed.
COLLINS: Admiral Stavridis, the book is amazing. Thank you for joining on it.
STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And up next. We're going to speak with a Republican lawmaker, out of North Carolina, who wrote a detailed letter to his constituents today, debunking conspiracies about the government's response to Hurricane Helene. As the White House has been pushing back on misinformation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our brave search and rescue teams, when they run toward danger, in the wake of a hurricane like this, don't ask what someone's politics are before they save their lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, as Florida is bracing for the impact of a second monster storm, nearly back-to-back, the wave of misinformation and disinformation from the last one has been rampant, hampering, at times, search and recovery efforts and, in many cases, being pushed by President Biden's political opponents for their own political gain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's un-American. It really is. People are scared to death. People know their lives are at stake, all that they've worked for, all that they own, all that they value.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source, tonight, a Republican congressman from one of the area's hardest hit by Hurricane Helene.
Representative Chuck Edwards of North Carolina is taking it upon himself, to try and debunk some of what's being pushed, about what's happening in his state. He represents Western North Carolina.
And thank you, Congressman, for being here.
Because I was struck by your post today. And you wrote that you don't think the FEMA response has been perfect. But you said, the rumors are just so outrageous that they had to be addressed.
And you shoot down that Helene was somehow engineered by the government. That, you say FEMA is not stopping trucks and confiscating supplies. The FAA is not restricting airspace from recovery operations. FEMA is not diverting disaster funds to the border, to foreign aid.
How much of this were you hearing from your constituents?
[21:45:00]
REP. CHUCK EDWARDS (R-NC): Well, the rumors certainly have been growing.
Now, I'm not going to defend FEMA's honor. They've made a lot of mistakes. They continue to make a lot of mistakes, in our recovery efforts here.
But I was simply finding that all of the rumor, the falsities, were more getting in the way, of us trying to help the people, here in Western North Carolina recover from Helene. COLLINS: Well, and I think you can -- there's a world where you could not like something FEMA has done, or criticize it, or ask them to do better. But also not spread blatant conspiracies and lies that you had to debunk. I just, you know, how bad was it that you felt the need to put this information out there?
EDWARDS: Well, I was getting a number of calls and emails and texts from folks that claimed to have first-hand accounts that they were turned away with supplies, or not able to help.
And every single one of those rabbit holes, I went down, I chased it, trying to find contact information. And I was unable to corroborate one, single one of those stories.
And again, there are a lot of things I'd like to see FEMA do differently. But they're not out guarding roads, and turning people away, and confiscating equipment and merchandise.
COLLINS: Given that so much of these myths and lies are being spread by members of your own party, does it anger you, because it makes your life harder?
EDWARDS: Well, our life here in Western North Carolina is difficult enough, right now.
And I can't speak to what anyone else's experience has been, any other member of Congress or political candidate. I can only say from my perspective of the boots on the ground, here in Western North Carolina, that I don't see the things happening, that folks have been out there on social media saying that have been happening.
COLLINS: Yes, I just think, the first thing you fact-checked was something I've even heard from, from people in Alabama, where I'm from. This idea of this storm being geoengineered by the government. I mean, that was essentially something that your colleague, Marjorie Taylor Greene was arguing, saying, They can control the weather, it can be manipulated.
Obviously, Trump was saying the money was being used for undocumented immigrants.
It's just, I mean, it's like nothing you've ever seen before.
EDWARDS: Well, I think that we all agree there is money being used for undocumented immigrants. That should not be happening.
And as far as any other member of Congress, I'm not sure of their perspective. I'm only speaking, from my perspective, here in Western North Carolina, and trying to help so many people that are affected by a storm, recover.
There was a great concern by a number of folks, that if they were led to believe that FEMA was confiscating much-needed goods and water, that folks might quit sending goods and water to Western North Carolina.
COLLINS: Yes. Well and--
EDWARDS: And I certainly don't need that to be taking place right now.
COLLINS: And what I was saying earlier, with that, it was, what was being spread is, that was from Marjorie Taylor Greene. You shot that down, obviously, immediately.
But quickly. You said that FEMA is not doing a perfect job. What specifically would you like to see them do differently?
EDWARDS: Oh, my goodness, that list gets pretty long.
First of all, it took way too long for them to get here to Western North Carolina. We knew the storm was coming two days ahead. It still took more than three days. My calculation is it took about 80 hours before we saw the first representatives from FEMA. One county that I represent, it took six days for them to get there.
We still don't have mobile trailers that folks have asked for, that my counties have asked for. We still don't have FEMA station set up, where folks can come in--
COLLINS: Yes.
EDWARDS: --and make applications and get answers. I had one constituent tell me they made an application, they were initially denied, and then they got three additional letters from FEMA, and emails, all contradictive to one another.
COLLINS: OK, Congressman.
EDWARDS: This -- yes.
COLLINS: And obviously, we'll check in with you. We want to follow up with those things. I do want to thank you for your time tonight. I know you're very busy. Congressman Chuck Edwards.
EDWARDS: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. New reporting on Donald Trump, and what Brian Stelter referenced earlier, that claim that he took a trip to Gaza.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: This just into CNN tonight. Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert F. Kennedy, has been hospitalized after suffering a stroke in her sleep, last week.
Her grandson, the former Congressman, Joe Kennedy III, said that Mrs. Kennedy was brought to the hospital where she is now receiving treatment. She is comfortable and getting the best care possible while surrounded by her family.
Ethel Kennedy is 96-years-old. When Donald Trump was asked about Gaza, during a recent radio interview, he made a curious claim about once visiting the war-torn location.
[21:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It has the best location in the Middle East, the best water, the best everything. It's got, it is the best, I've said it for years. You know when -- I've been there, and it's rough. It's a rough place, before the, you know, before all of the attacks and before--
HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": Right.
TRUMP: --the back and forth what's happened over the last couple of years. And I said, 'Wow, look at this.'
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You might have also noticed when he said, I've been there.
Well, we looked into Trump's claim that he's visited Gaza. But so far, we haven't been able to find any record of Trump ever doing so, not as President of the United States, not in his previous life as a business mogul.
But when we asked his campaign if he simply misspoke, they insisted he did not. Instead, a campaign spokesperson told CNN this. Quote, "President Trump has been to Gaza previously and has always worked to ensure peace in the Middle East."
But we asked follow-up questions, including whether there was any proof about Trump's alleged trip, including who he went with, which year and why.
A trip like this obviously would have been extraordinary, given it's very difficult for anyone to visit Gaza, much less a president. And of course, Hamas has been in power since 2007. The campaign declined to provide any evidence that Trump has ever been to Gaza.
My source tonight is CNN's Chris Wallace, whose new book "Countdown 1960" is on the lead up to the 1960 election, and is out now, and is really interesting. And I want to talk about that in a moment.
But Chris, on this story, and just the idea that at one point the campaign was saying, to The New York Times, that Gaza was in Israel, which obviously it's not. Then they're just saying, Yes, he was there. But they're not providing any evidence of that.
Just, what do you make of that, this entire saga?
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR, HOST, "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?" ON MAX, CNN HOST, "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW," AUTHOR, "COUNTDOWN 1960": I think it was a good story. Got caught up in it. We've seen other candidates, like Tim Walz get caught up. And suddenly, he was there.
And there are two things that I find kind of extraordinary about it.
One was the original response from the campaign, which was, Well, he's been in Israel, and Gaza is in Israel, which shows a complete misunderstanding of the fact that Gaza has always been a separate territory.
And secondly, the whole premise of the question, which was, Could you turn Gaza, because it's right there in the Mediterranean, into another Monaco, another Monte Carlo? And he says, Oh, yes, it's got everything.
I mean, Gaza is one of the most densely populated territories on Earth. The unemployment rate for young people is 70 percent. It's a place wrapped with poverty, wrapped with -- overcrowded, not the fact that it's got Hamas, a terrorist organization controlling it. Other than that, it's a real garden spot.
COLLINS: Yes, it reminded me of when, when there was the comment about beachfront property, and that Trump made previously. Jared Kushner also made a similar claim about Gaza.
But on your book, it's really interesting, because this is all about the lead up to the 1960 election. But as you're reading through this, and looking at this, it has so many striking parallels to what we're about to experience the next 28 days. Also, it reminded me a lot of 2020, obviously, and the election there.
Because essentially, what you're writing is that the 1960 election may very well have been stolen. Yet when you look at how these two leaders, then Nixon and Kennedy, handled this, it's very different than what we saw four years ago.
WALLACE: Well, that's the -- I wrote it for two reasons, Kaitlan.
One was, it's a great story. You've got these two fascinating figures, Richard Nixon and Jack Kennedy. It's filled with the mob getting involved, to help the Kennedys. Kennedy is in kind of a love triangle with the head of the Chicago mob, Sam Giancana. Frank Sinatra is in it. Fidel Castro's in the story.
But in addition, it struck me that there is tremendous relevance to 2020, and what we're going through right now, because it really turns 2020 on its head.
That was an election that really may, I'm not going to say it was, but may have been stolen. And Richard Nixon, hardly a hero in American history, decided, in the end, to do the right thing, which was not to contest the election, and to engage in the peaceful transfer of power.
COLLINS: Yes, it makes you think of Nixon's legacy a little bit differently, as you read, the steps that he'd taken, what he certainly could have done.
And the other interesting part to me was you talk about how it was -- that really became the modern era of politics that we see with televised debates that people were watching.
And it made me think of the televised debates that we're watching now, or maybe not, many more. You once hosted a presidential debate, in the last election. Obviously, that was must--
WALLACE: Twice.
COLLINS: That was must-watch.
WALLACE: 2016 and 2020.
COLLINS: Right. But the 2020 one was just, I mean, I would say, out of this world. I don't know, I guess 2016 was as well.
Chris Wallace, the book is fascinating and very timely. Thank you so much.
WALLACE: Thank you.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
[22:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP: Tonight.
With one month until America votes, Kamala Harris runs toward Joe Biden's legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: There is not a thing that comes to mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Plus, secret admirers. A new book reveals Donald Trump keeps in touch with Russia's Vladimir Putin.
