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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Hegseth's Mother Defends Son As "Changed" Man After 2018 Email Calling Him "Abuser Of Women"; Manhunt Underway For Gunman Who Killed CEO On NYC Sidewalk; Jeff Bezos: "Very Optimistic" About 2nd Trump Term. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 04, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There was another Israeli strike today. The Israeli Air Force saying that they were targeting a launchpad. But we've also heard from Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, today, saying that it is still holding.
And there is a sense that despite the violations, which have been happening on a daily basis, that there really is a desperate desire for many people, on both sides of this border, for this thing to hold, Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Clarissa Ward, thanks so much.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE, tonight.
We are live from the center of the political universe near the President-elect's Mar-a-Lago Club, as his pick to run the Pentagon is vowing to fight while his nomination is in peril in the Senate, as Trump is weighing his options.
I'm Kaitlan Collins, live in West Palm Beach, Florida. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, all eyes are on Mar-a-Lago, on what has arguably been the most critical day yet for the President-elect's embattled Defense secretary pick, Pete Hegseth.
Hegseth was back on Capitol Hill, today, where he was vowing to fight like hell to save his nomination, amid growing doubts about whether or not he can ultimately get enough Republican support to be confirmed by the Senate.
For the first time, publicly, Hegseth directly addressed some of the most serious allegations against him, including sexual assault, excessive drinking and mismanaging veterans organizations that he ran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PETE HEGSETH, PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT TRUMP'S PICK FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: What you're seeing right now with me, is the art of the smear.
Take whatever tiny kernels of truth and there are tiny, tiny ones in there, and blow them up into a masquerade of a narrative.
I owe an answer to the members of the United States Senate, who are going to vote for a confirmation here. And my meetings with them have been fantastic. No one has looked me in the eye and said, I have concerns, and I can't vote for you. In fact, most have said, Let's take a picture, and I'm behind you all the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Some of those Republican senators that he's been meeting with have voiced their concerns, oftentimes right in front of the cameras, including after -- including after meetings that they've had with Pete Hegseth.
One of the most critical ones that he had today that everyone here at Mar-a-Lago was watching was Senator Joni Ernst. She's a member of the committee that is handling Hegseth's confirmation. And she's also the first woman combat veteran elected to Congress, and also a survivor of sexual assault.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): It was a frank and thorough conversation.
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Would you vote yes? Can you say if you'd vote yes or not?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That moment came after Hegseth had a meeting with Senator Roger Wicker, who says that Hegseth assured him he would not drink alcohol if he were confirmed to lead the Pentagon.
Another Republican senator that we heard from today, Kevin Cramer, also had voiced concern on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ROGER WICKER (R-MS): I haven't made a decision, but I'm looking to be supportive.
RAJU: Looking, you said--
WICKER: I had a very good meeting.
The allegation was made about him being intoxicated several times.
RAJU: And he categorically say he would stop drinking altogether--
WICKER: That's right.
RAJU: --if he becomes Secretary of Defense.
WICKER: We'll see what -- what the investigations reveal, and how the hearing goes.
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): One of the things I'd love to hear is that he's committed to not drinking. I think if he would -- being familiar with the problems of alcoholism, and the dumb things we do when we drink too much, it'd be really nice if he would set that one aside for good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, Hegseth today, in the interview he did, was asked about these concerns that you heard from Republicans, and he said that he does not believe he has a drinking problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH: First of all, I've never had a drinking problem. I don't -- never -- no one has ever approached me and said, Oh, you should really look at getting help for drinking. Never. I've never sought counseling. Never sought help. I respect and appreciate people, who do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: In another attempt to ease concerns from Republican senators, his own mom vouched for him, in a television interview today. That came after the publication of a searing email that Hegseth's mom wrote to him, years ago, in the middle of one of his divorces, where she called him an abuser of women.
Today, she appealed directly to Republican senators, like Joni Ernst.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PENELOPE HEGSETH, PETE HEGSETH'S MOTHER: We say things. And I wrote that in haste. I wrote that with deep emotions.
I am a passionate person like Pete. And sometimes, emotional words come out. I don't believe any of that is true.
Pete is a new person. He's redeemed, forgiven, changed. I think we all are, after seven years.
I just hope people will get to know who Pete is today, especially our dear female senators, that you would listen to him. Listen with your heart to the truth of Pete.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: We start the hour tonight with my source, Maggie Haberman, CNN Political Analyst, and Senior Political Correspondent at The New York Times. And Maggie, as you are listening to this and watching what's been playing out, on Capitol Hill today. What have you been hearing from people at Mar-a-Lago, on what they're viewing on when it comes to Hegseth's likelihood to get confirmed, at this moment?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: It's a mix, Kaitlan. I mean, there are some people who are more optimistic than others. Most people in Trump's orbit do not think that this is looking like a likely prospect that Pete Hegseth survives.
Just because, if you look at this litany of things that he is talking about, number one, these stories have been hanging out for a number of days. Trump has been complaining privately to people that he feels like Hegseth should have been more upfront with him, that he gave him opportunities, that he -- now, I don't know whether that's true, but that's what Trump is saying.
We also know some of these things didn't come up in a vet that the Trump folks say that they did of Hegseth.
Having Hegseth's mother speaking to Trump, clearly, she was speaking to the audience of one. She began that interview, directing her remarks to Trump. And so, she knew what she was supposed to say. Will it be enough? I don't know. Most people around Trump are pretty skeptical.
And once he starts talking about possible replacements, it's hard to see why senators, who are already skeptical, would be like, Oh, OK, now I'm going to go along with this.
COLLINS: Yes. There was another moment today that seemed like speaking to an audience of one. It was in Hegseth's interview, where he was comparing what's happening, right now, to another brutal confirmation battle that Trump is very familiar with.
Listen to what he told Megyn Kelly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW," SIRIUSXM: Do you think you're being Kavanaugh-ed right now?
PETE HEGSETH: I had a member, not 45 minutes ago, look me in the eye in private, just he and I, and say, That's what they're trying to do to you. That's what they're trying to do to you. That's their playbook. Get ready for more.
We saw what happened. But guess what happened? Kavanaugh stood up, and he fought, and he won. And hopefully, Republicans have learned that lesson.
KELLY: And Trump stood by him.
PETE HEGSETH: And Trump stood by him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, Hegseth told -- says today that Trump told him, to keep fighting.
But I guess, my question was how often have we heard that from someone before -- right before they lose the support--
HABERMAN: Right.
COLLINS: --of Trump?
HABERMAN: We've heard it a lot, Kaitlan, to your point.
I would also just say these aren't the same circumstances. With Kavanaugh, the accusations were decades old. There was not a ton of real-time evidence. There was already a disposition, among some senators to be against this.
And Trump really put a lot of skin in the game, on that one. That is a big difference here. Trump, as far as I know, is not making a ton of calls on Pete Hegseth's behalf. He's telling Pete Hegseth, Go fight. And that's a little different than what we saw there.
These allegations about Hegseth are much more recent, and they are much more detailed. And so, I think that Trump will say a lot of things, and some of them will be in conflict with one another. But at the end of the day, none of this is a great fact-set for Hegseth. He could survive. But we'll see.
COLLINS: Yes. And we also heard a lot of questions today, from Republican senators, about the allegations of excessive drinking from Hegseth.
Senator Josh Hawley was another Republican, who is today -- you know, typically, is a very fair supporter of Trump's, obviously, in the Senate. But he said he was not sure about Trump's plan forward. Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I was supposed to sit down with him tomorrow, but they've canceled that meeting.
So, I don't -- I don't know where things stand at the moment.
RAJU: Do you think he's going to withdraw?
HAWLEY: I don't know. But listen, I just -- the President, they get a lot -- the President, a lot of deference here. I've said I'll support folks. My presumption is I'll support whoever he wants, and thinks is going to be great for his Cabinet. I'm not -- it's not a 100 percent clear to me who he wants as Secretary of Defense right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That's not a notable, given we've heard from some of these senators saying, Let him have his confirmation hearing, let's see -- let's see what he has to say. To Hawley saying today, I don't know who Trump wants to be Defense secretary.
HABERMAN: Right. And that's my point from before, Kaitlan, that if Trump is very actively discussing other options. And I know this from multiple sources. I'm sure you do too. Ron DeSantis is one of them. Other people would like to see Mike Waltz.
It would still be sort of mind-boggling, if Ron DeSantis does get chosen, and Trump does pull the rug out from under Hegseth, because you will just hear a replay of all of these things that DeSantis said about Trump, in their primary, including about Trump's first indictment in Manhattan, and the trial related to a hush money payment to a porn star.
Putting all of that aside, Trump is sending signals to these senators, again, I'm not really committed on this. Until he starts really working the phones on this himself, it sort of leaves Hegseth dangling there.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: Yes, can we talk about the DeSantis aspect of this? Because Trump is considering a few other people. There's -- Joni Ernst's name has been thrown around, Bill Hagerty's. And obviously -- but having a conversation with Ron DeSantis about this job, it's just, obviously struck so many people in Trump's orbit.
I know he had kind of talked about DeSantis, putting him at the Department of Homeland Security, a few weeks ago, when he was going through these nominations. But the idea he had a conversation with someone, who was one of his fiercest critics, about a year and a half ago, is quite notable, for this moment.
HABERMAN: Yes, look, it's the kind of thing Donald Trump loves, right? He has told people that, privately, that it would be a big story if he brought in somebody, who he had had this feud with, in a primary.
But it would be a big story, because he's a conquest. And he's somebody who Trump not just beat, but trounced in those primaries, who -- Ron DeSantis is the person who the New York Post had put on their front page in 2022, as the Future, and that obviously did not last. So, I understand why, for Donald Trump, who we know likes this kind of a narrative, about people falling in line with him, this is appealing.
And DeSantis would, I'm sure, get easily confirmed. He fits a lot of the Trump agenda. He has the same program that Trump has, on what he wants for the military, and fighting against what both call, the woke military and woke leadership. And I think you would see a lot of symmetry there. But it would be -- it would be a culture clash between DeSantis' world, DeSantis' way of running things, and Trump's.
COLLINS: Yes, absolutely.
Maggie Haberman, thank you for your reporting, as always.
Also here joining us tonight is journalist, and the Co-founder of Lift Our Voices, Gretchen Carlson.
And Gretchen, I just wonder. When you listen to Pete Hegseth coming out, which I just want to remind everyone, it's notable that he's even coming out and doing interviews. Because no other Cabinet picks so far have been allowed to go in and do media. They've been told by people at Mar-a-Lago, Just wait until your confirmation hearing is over, focus on that, and staffing up your agency.
What did it say to you that he came out and did that interview, earlier today?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST, CO-FOUNDER, "LIFT OUR VOICES": I think that this is a direct play to the Republican senators. I mean, it's the same reason why his mom went on Fox News. As Maggie just said, an audience of one.
I actually think it was also an audience of female GOP senators. I mean, the mom twice said, during that interview, she looked straight into the camera and said, I'm speaking to you. And maybe that's because a lot of them have become skittish on this, right now.
You have Cynthia Lummis, who, Monday said that she was 100 percent in favor of Hegseth. And then, after the new revelations came out, she has taken a 180. You have Murkowski. You have Collins. You have Shelley Moore Capito.
You also have men now. I mean -- I think yesterday was a really poignant moment, because Senator Lindsey Graham, who is a big Trump supporter, and also has major influence with the Senate, he said he had many concerns. And now, tonight it's being reported that Mitch McConnell has concerns.
So, it only takes three for this to not happen, if every Democrat votes no. It takes three Republicans. And so, I'm not sure that these interviews are going to make any difference.
COLLINS: One complaint that I've heard from some people on the Trump side is that the allegations against him are anonymous, that there are not names attached to people who are saying, Well, he did this, or he did that, when we worked together.
One of them, obviously, that kind of started this whole process, when it came to his confirmation, was a woman who accused him of sexual assault. Something that he has denied. But he did have a settlement agreement with this woman.
And I want you to listen to what he said about that today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Did you rape a woman in a hotel in Monterey?
PETE HEGSETH: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I've been honest about that encounter, starting with law enforcement, from the beginning. I was -- I may have been drinking, but I was cognizant enough to remember every single detail. And I'm not here to say that my conduct was good, you know, being in a hotel room with someone that's, you know, not the person you're with is not OK. I own up to that.
KELLY: Why did you pay her?
PETE HEGSETH: I paid her because I had to, or at least I thought I did at the time.
I did it to protect my wife, I did it to protect my family, and I did it to protect my job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What did you make of that answer?
CARLSON: Well, look, Pete Hegseth can go on camera and talk all about that. And guess who can't? Is the victim, survivor, or the woman, whatever you want to call her, because she had to sign an NDA. And that's not being widely reported.
[21:15:00]
Today, I heard Tim Parlatore, who was Hegseth's attorney, earlier on this broadcast, saying that it was extortion. He has the ability to say that it was extortion. And she has no ability to come forward and say, Yes, it was, or No, it wasn't. And so, she should be released from this NDA, so that she can tell her side of the story, if she wants to. But it's not an even playing field.
And by the way, just because there were no charges, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Remember, this was back in 2017, this was right at the beginning of the MeToo movement. Even police and prosecutors had a different way of looking at these kinds of cases. And so, I'm not exactly sure that things would not be different, if this was not 2024.
But the NDA is really the sticking point here. And if the senators really want to get to the truth, they will demand that Hegseth releases her from this NDA.
COLLINS: We'll see if they do.
Gretchen Carlson, thank you.
CARLSON: Thank you.
COLLINS: My next source tonight is a senator, who will vote on Hegseth's confirmation. He is supporting him, at this moment. A question is, well, whether anything would change his mind.
Also tonight, we are following the investigation underway, right now in New York, as there are brand-new details and new video in the shocking assassination-style murder of the Healthcare CEO, right in the middle of New York City. We'll have the latest for you, after this.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: We're back live in West Palm Beach, where nearby at President-elect Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club, they are actively dealing with what is happening on Capitol Hill, as his Defense secretary pick's nomination seems shakier than ever, at this moment.
It's unclear if Pete Hegseth has done enough to shore up support that he needs on Capitol Hill, to get confirmed.
And joining me now is Republican senator, Markwayne Mullin, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, which is critical to Hegseth's confirmation.
And Senator, thank you for being here.
You've obviously been out there, out front, pushing for Pete Hegseth to be confirmed. Today, your colleague, Josh Hawley, said it was not 100 percent clear who Trump really wants as Secretary of Defense right now.
Where do you believe Hegseth's nomination stands tonight?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Oh, that's -- I think that's probably mis-accurately spoken by Josh.
I spoke to President Trump, and I spoke to Pete, both. They are still both all in the fight.
President Trump personally told me he wants to see Pete get confirmed. And I think there's a -- there's a path to get there. It may be a little narrow. But I believe we can -- we can get him confirmed.
He just got -- Pete's just got to keep doing what he's doing. He's showing up. He's answering the tough questions. And after most of those meetings, I think people have a positive outlook about it.
COLLINS: Do you believe it's more likely or less likely that he gets confirmed than it was 24 or 48 hours ago?
MULLIN: Oh, I think it's more likely now. I don't know if you got the opportunity to watch his mother, on Fox today, this morning. But she did just a phenomenal job. Put a lot of those questions to rest.
And he's up here working hard. And the more he meets with people, as I said, the more positive response we get. So every day he's doing what he needs to do, we're getting closer to the ability to get him confirmed. But, like I said, it's going to -- it's a tough road for him. But it is a 100 percent doable.
COLLINS: A lot of the concern that we have been hearing, lately, from Republicans, hasn't really been on the sexual assault allegation, that was the initial complaint that was made against him. But has more centered around the allegations of, about excessive drinking.
And today, Pete Hegseth assured the incoming Chair of the Armed Services Committee that you sit on, Roger Wicker, that he would stop drinking altogether, if he were confirmed. I mean, what conversations have you had with him about that? Did he tell you that he -- that he has stopped drinking?
MULLIN: He's been very successful in his life, since he left the -- left the military. Yes, he's had some personal issues.
But I have a lot of friends that were combat veterans that's, at some point in their life, may had some -- may had some difficulties with -- with drinking. But life has changed. They've changed. And that's in the past. And I believe Pete's the same way. Pete's in his past.
Why I haven't had that conversation with him? I will tell you that it's not a concern that I had with him at all. And to be quite frank with you, Kaitlan, I haven't spoken to any of my Republican colleagues that have actually brought this up. We've had other conversations about him, and that we've addressed. But that conversation, and in the settings that I've been with him, has never came up. Not one time.
COLLINS: Well, this was something that was -- this is why I asked you about the last 24 to 48 hours, because this is new information that had been coming out. Which obviously today, an interview that he did--
MULLIN: Right.
COLLINS: --he said that he's never had a drinking problem.
But I think the concern that I had heard was, is it a good sign if the nominee to run the Pentagon, who obviously gets calls in the middle of the night, has to reassure the Chairman he won't be drinking on the job?
MULLIN: I really do think that's -- that's not a concern at all. I mean, if you're up here in D.C., you've been to meetings, you've probably sit down with a lot of people. I don't drink. I've never been one to drink. Alcohol, it's just not ever been an important part of my life at all. But unfortunately, in a lot of these settings, it is. I'm telling you, that's not a concern, and I don't believe it's a concern about it.
I wonder if this same -- the same question was asked to Secretary Austin, or some of the other nominees that President Biden put forth. I would say, no. And if you ask them if they drink, I would say 90 percent of them or more would say, yes.
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Well, I guess, the question is because of reports about his former colleagues and whatnot--
MULLIN: Yes.
COLLINS: --that have said that, and made those allegations.
It wasn't -- you know, if there were allegations about Secretary Austin, that would obviously be something that came up.
MULLIN: Well--
COLLINS: And part of this -- go ahead.
MULLIN: Well, I was going to say, Kaitlan, there's been a lot of anonymous tips that have come forth, by saying that they've seen this happen, or that this has taken place. But no one's actually came forward and put their -- publicly about it.
And if it was, it's still not a concern. People have -- people's had a past. You've had a past. I've had a past. Everybody's had a past, at some degree. Everybody went through college, at some -- well, not everybody. But a lot of people went through college, at some point in their life. If it's part of their past, it's fine.
We're confirming Pete today, to who he is today. And he'll do a phenomenal job, running the Secretary of Defense.
He -- you got to remember, we're coming -- we're coming after four years of Secretary Austin, who's absolutely devastated the Defense Department. And we have low morale. We have low enrollment. And we have an absolute disaster going on in our defense industry. And Secretary Austin has done nothing--
COLLINS: Yes.
MULLIN: --but added fuel to fire.
We're looking for someone different. And Pete brings that. Pete brings a different perspective. And we're excited about the opportunity to get him -- to get him nominated, because I feel like he will do a great job by having a completely different direction that Secretary Austin--
COLLINS: Yes.
MULLIN: --has taken in this.
COLLINS: Well, and I don't think anyone's surprised that a Republican doesn't like how the Democratic president's Pentagon secretary is running the Pentagon.
But I think on the standard for your past, and for alcohol drinking, obviously, it's higher for someone who is asking to be confirmed by the Senate.
But let me ask you, because Roger Wicker, who is going to be the incoming Chair, said that he wants to see a whistleblower complaint, when it comes to allegations of misconduct, when Hegseth was running a veterans group.
Do you also want to see that whistleblower's complaint?
MULLIN: Well, first of all, I want to go back to addressing Secretary Austin. Yes, I'll answer your question too.
But it's not a Republican that's making that claim. The facts are exactly what it is. In the Defense -- in the Defense Department, right now, we see, and all branches are not meeting their recruitment numbers, and their morale is low. So, that's not my opinion. That's actual facts that's taking place.
Now, talk about moving forward. When we -- in a committee, and when we're going through the committee, we'll do a background check. And anything that comes out on that, we will address. And if it doesn't have the right information, we'll even work farther for it. So, that's part of the hearing. And I'm positive through the hearing process, anything that we need will come to light.
COLLINS: Is there anything in the background check that you think could change your mind about supporting Pete Hegseth?
MULLIN: Of course there is. That's part of the hearing. That's part of the nomination process. But right now, I haven't seen it, and I'm a 100 percent supportive of it.
When you start looking at Pete, and his ability to lead, what is the -- what is the Secretary of Defense's qualifications? He's supposed to be a civilian. The issue that we have with him, right now is, not only was he a civilian. It's not an issue. Not only we have a -- we have a civilian in Pete, but he also is a decorative combat veteran that served 20 years, and retired as a Major.
So, we get both sides. We get a civilian, and we get someone that served in this -- in a military, honorably, that was highly decorated. And I feel very positive about where we're at.
But to say that there's nothing in his background check that could change my mind? That's not the case with anybody. That's why we do these hearings. That's why we run the background checks.
COLLINS: Yes.
Does it concern you that the President-elect has had conversations with other people about taking this job, potentially? Does that give you any pause about how he's viewing Pete Hegseth's nomination ability, right now?
MULLIN: No. As I said, I've visited with President Trump, personally. He wants to see Pete get confirmed.
But any business guy, which is what President Trump is, and people know that, and very successful business guy, always has Plan A, B and C. They're contingency plans. Just in case if Plan A doesn't work out, and Plan A is getting Pete confirmed, you've got to have B and C possibilities, because anything is possible.
COLLINS: Senator Markwayne Mullin, thank you for your time tonight.
MULLIN: Thank you for having me on.
COLLINS: Up next. We have breaking details on the massive manhunt that is still underway, right now, for a brazen killer in New York City, after that assassination-style shooting of a CEO in Midtown Manhattan. We just got new surveillance video that was released, and we're now learning more about clues the police found near the crime scene.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Some breaking news, this evening. As right now, we are in hour 15 with New York City police still searching for that gunman, who shot and killed the UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson, this morning, outside of a Manhattan hotel.
Tonight, there is new surveillance video, that was obtained by The New York Times, that appears to show the gunman, highlighted here, showing up to the area about 10 minutes before the attack. He seems to be potentially speaking on the phone, in this video. That was after he was seen at a nearby Starbucks, earlier today, as police believe that he was staking out the CEO -- CEO's arrival at this investor conference this morning.
Surveillance video captured that horrific attack on camera. We're not showing you the entire video, given its disturbing nature. But in what you can see here, you see Thompson. Then the gunman walking up on his left, right behind him, before pausing and firing into his back, outside of that Hilton hotel. After Thompson is down, the shooter appears to calmly walk away towards a nearby alley.
Tonight, police say that the suspect fled the scene, on an e-bike, after previously saying that he rode towards Central Park on a Citi Bike.
[21:35:00]
All of this is happening, right in the heart of New York, in Midtown Manhattan. It's just blocks away from Times Square and Rockefeller Center, where tonight that tree lighting ceremony is underway. It is continuing, as scheduled.
CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins me now from outside that Hilton hotel where this murder happened.
And Shimon, just the idea that it has been 15 hours, and police have not yet found this shooter. What are you hearing from sources tonight about where this search stands.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's all about video at this point, and trying to track this individual, this shooter, through the video, throughout this city.
They've been able to do a lot of that already. They've been able to track some video, like you showed with the Starbucks. The initial video here just taken behind me at the Hilton hotel. And so, they're working through that process, and it just takes some time.
They have other things that they have also have found here at the scene. A cell phone that they believe may belong to the shooter. A water bottle that they believe belonged to the shooter. So, they have a lot of clues to work with. The thing is, it's just going to take a lot of time, to get through all of that information, to get through all -- some of the forensics, to go through the phone. So, it's just a matter of time. I think they are, I would say, pretty confident that they'll get to a successful resolution here. But it's just a lot of painstaking work that investigators need to do, to try and find this man.
COLLINS: But they do seem to feel confident, based on what they know so far about this, and what they have been able to look at?
PROKUPECZ: Yes, certainly, look, I think the NYPD detectives pride themselves on being the greatest in the world at this. They have a lot to work with. This city, there's so much technology around us. There are so many cameras all around us. And I think that, for them, gives a lot of confidence that they will have success in all of this.
So, look, there are things that are going on that we just don't know about, that they're not going to tell us, simple facts that we want to know, or simple things that they may be working on. At this point, they don't want us reporting on some of that information, because they don't want to tip their hand that this suspect would know what they're working on.
So, look, I think they're confident. I think they're going to get there, they feel. It's just going to take some time.
COLLINS: Yes.
Shimon, keep us updated. Obviously, if you hear anything this hour, please let us know.
And this comes, as Shimon notes that investigation is happening behind-the-scenes. We're also seeing new video that police have obtained of the suspect before this shooting, this was in Uptown Manhattan, carrying what appears to be a battery for -- a battery for an e-bike the police now have in their hands.
CNN's John Miller served as the Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counterterrorism for the New York Police Department, and has been working his sources for us tonight.
And John, just first off, what are you hearing about this video, and if it does show the suspect carrying a battery for an e-bike, what cops are gleaning from that?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it shows that, as Shimon pointed out, they expanded their video canvas. They put it not just in through Central Park, but out the streets on both sides of Central Park, both before and after the shooting, hoping that they would get images of the shooter either fleeing the scene or maybe earlier, before that.
So, they come up with video, Kaitlan, at around 05:15, in the morning, on the Upper West Side, a couple of blocks east of -- west of Central Park, where they see an individual, who they believe is the shooter. He's carrying what appears to be a battery for an e-bike. So that suggests to them that he may -- he may live in that area. He may have started out in that area. They believe he took the train to Midtown, where he either had that bike stashed or pre-positioned, so he could put that fully-charged battery on, and have it ready for the getaway.
COLLINS: And what are you hearing about what investigators are doing with a phone that they found at the scene?
MILLER: So, they're trying to get into that phone. They have a special team in the NYPD that does that. They have a team at the FBI that they have access too, that could be involved in this. But you have to get past the passcode.
And then, you're going to learn whether that's a burner phone, where the information inside may be minimal. But still, it may have important things in it. Who he called, what he looked up, what searches he did.
But it also may be his phone, which he may have dropped accidentally in his getaway through the alley. And if that's the case, it could have a lot of information, including exactly who he is.
COLLINS: Yes. And as they look at that, and the situation with the phone and waiting to get through that.
[21:40:00]
I mean, you could see him. He has this gun. And what I was struck by is watching how calm he was, as he walked up behind the CEO, and shot him behind, in the back, and then, when he fell to the ground, continued to shoot him again. Seemed to quickly fix a jam that the gun had.
They've recovered the shell casings, the bullets. What can they learn from that, John?
MILLER: Well, they can put those shell casings into the NIBIN system. Because the shell casings will have a strike mark on the back that is very unique. And the NIBIN system will give them a 99.99 percent match to any other shell casings that were found at other crime scenes. So, it could match that gun to other crimes. And if they have a suspect in those crimes, that could be the suspect in these crimes.
They also found complete bullets that, in clearing the jam, were also ejected. They could possibly have DNA, even a partial fingerprint. The water bottle could have DNA or a fingerprint.
So, they have several clues to go through. But they're going to have to wait for those tests, lab results, so on. So, the video canvas is the thing that they can keep doing, right now. Because, right now, what they don't have is a name.
COLLINS: How skilled did he seem to be to you with that gun in his hand? MILLER: So, he seemed to be pretty skilled. You look at his stance. He's got the -- he's got the shooter's stance, he's got the two-hand grip. He comes up on his target. And when those jams happen, as you pointed out, he clears them very quickly.
So, what does that suggest? It suggests we have somebody, who's comfortable with firearms, who's experienced with firearms, especially how he clears those malfunctions, which suggests he's had training. That could be law enforcement. That could be military. It could be someone who is -- who is not new to this.
COLLINS: Yes. John Miller, as you're learning more, please keep us updated tonight.
MILLER: Sure, Kaitlan. Thanks.
COLLINS: And we'll have more on this breaking story coming up. Sources are telling CNN that the entire UnitedHealth Group, actually, the leadership team had security. So that has raised a question why the CEO, Brian Thompson, is walking alone, this morning.
And later tonight, there is new sound coming out, a new sound bite, from the world's second richest man, Jeff Bezos, weighing in on the second Trump administration, and how he's viewing it.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, New York Police are still searching for the gunman who killed the UnitedHealthcare CEO, in Midtown Manhattan, this morning.
What's also stunning about how this attack happened was that the victim, Brian Thompson, appeared to be unprotected, as he was making his way to that investors conference.
A source has told CNN that UnitedHealth Group's security says that the entire leadership team, which obviously includes Thompson, is supported by an in-house security team.
My source tonight on the investigation is the former FBI Assistant Director, Chris Swecker, who has also previously headed global security for executives at Bank of America.
And so, it's great to have your expertise here tonight.
CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: Thank you.
COLLINS: And I just wonder, is it odd to you that Thompson was on his way to this conference, without security, if that is the mandate, and they do -- they do typically have that for the leadership team.
SWECKER: Yes, a company that size, 440,000 employees, the market cap of UnitedHealthcare, most certainly, they have an executive protection team. And they usually do advance work, and they do it just like the Secret Service would do it. In fact, many of them are retired Secret Service agents, or other types of law enforcement backgrounds, and they know what they're doing.
But I also find that CEOs and high-level executives sometimes push back. But -- and they like to get around by themselves. In this case, obviously he was alone. So, I suspect that he may have just said, I don't need security. Or, he -- or they just decided, this wasn't the trip that they needed to have them with him at that time.
COLLINS: (inaudible) the company, including high-level executives. And so, when you have that, and the victim's wife telling NBC News that there have been some threats against her husband. Would that have been a situation where, if there was no one with him, and investigators are looking through this, how they're looking and trying to connect that now?
SWECKER: Yes, it's not unusual for CEOs to get threats and complaints. They're the -- they're sort of the focal point of the company, the public face of the company.
If somebody inside the company is disgruntled, or somebody's been fired recently, which happens, again, in these big companies. They're constantly, you know, their workforce is constantly shifting. They're letting people go. Customers, in this case, somebody may have been denied coverage, they've issued life-and-death decisions. So, they're looking at all of that.
And usually -- I mean, it was my experience in these types of cases, there is some sort of communication somewhere. There's a text, there's a letter, there's a social media post, there's something communicated to someone inside the company, or maybe even directly to the -- to the victim. That these are the types of things, of course, that the investigators are looking at.
But they don't spontaneously combust, if you will. There usually is some type of red flag that comes up. And I'm sure they're just dissecting his social media and his contacts, and even people in his office, in his immediate office space.
COLLINS: What do you think is the number one thing that they're looking at, behind-the-scenes, right now, for these investigators?
SWECKER: This case reminds me a lot of the Boston bombing in the sense that this happened in a very -- in an area, where there's a dense concentration of video, all kinds of businesses. And you can track their movements, both before and after the fact, after the -- you know, this -- the incident.
[21:50:00]
So, I think they're still piecing some of that together. There was enough of his face, in that photo that you just showed, where you might be able to get his eye color, some of -- enough of his features to make a, possibly, some type of a video match, facial recognition, if you will. It used to be not great technology, five years ago. But the time has come for video facial recognition. So, there's a possibility there.
He went to a Starbucks. Maybe there was a financial transaction with a credit card.
He used that cell phone. That's going to be a huge intelligence bonanza, if they can break into that phone.
So, I think--
COLLINS: But Chris--
SWECKER: --there's a lot to work with here. I wouldn't -- I wouldn't be surprised to see a solution in a day or so.
COLLINS: But let me ask you, because you talked about facial recognition technology, how does that work? When you see him here, he's got a mask clearly pulled up to his nose, a hoodie over his head. How does that -- can it still pick up on that, given that?
SWECKER: I mean, I think it's possible. I mean, you can see the eyes, you can see the nose, you can see the cheekbones. There may be enough to work with there. It's a long shot. But there's so much video.
And there's so much technology around video now, and it's advanced since I was at Bank of America. We were -- it was pretty sophisticated, back then. We could do an iris scan, and identify somebody.
And as John said, maybe DNA on the bullet. You had to handle that bullet, the shell casings. I mean, there's a lot of forensics, to work with here.
COLLINS: Yes.
Chris Swecker, we'll see how investigators piece all of that together. Thank you for your expertise.
Up next here tonight. We are hearing from Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon, the owner of The Washington Post, once a critic of Donald Trump's at times, now weighing in on what he believes the second term could look like. You'll want to hear that after a quick break.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: With the world richest man, Elon Musk, firmly in President- elect Donald Trump's corner. Of course, he spent a lot of time down here in Palm Beach, since Trump won the election, after working to help him get in the White House.
Tonight, we are hearing from the world's second richest man, Jeff Bezos, who, at times clashed with Trump, during his first term in office, and now was weighing in today about his perspective, regarding Trump's return to the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF BEZOS, EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, AMAZON: I'm actually very optimistic this time around that we're going to see -- I'm very hopeful about this -- his -- he seems to have a lot of energy around reducing regulation. And my point of view, if I can help him do that, I'm going to help him.
What I've seen so far is that he is calmer than he was the first time, and more confident, more settled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Kara Swisher, host of the podcasts, "On with Kara Swisher" and "Pivot."
And it's great to have you here, Kara.
KARA SWISHER, HOST, "ON WITH KARA SWISHER" & "PIVOT" PODCASTS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: What did you make of that answer from Jeff Bezos there?
SWISHER: He would really like a space contract. That's what I kept thinking, is he really wants to. He has a lot of businesses that he would like in AI, and all kinds of areas. And so, I suspect he's saying it, so he could get more business. That's the first thought in my head.
COLLINS: Yes, and I wonder, how people are seeing how Elon Musk's proximity to Trump has -- obviously, he took a risk by coming out and being so fully supportive of Trump--
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: --before the election. We didn't know what's going to happen.
I wonder if you think that is having an impact on how other CEOs and business executives and tech and AI leaders are approaching Trump, this time around.
SWISHER: Well, they're doing it really gingerly, because they don't want to anger him, and they don't -- because he can get angry. And he, of course, attacked Bezos in the first term, quite a bit, and he attacked Mark Zuckerberg and others.
And so, Elon did take a risk. Although I did say, last March, he was going to support Trump. I mean, he -- it was obvious he needed to, for a variety of reasons.
But in Jeff's case, he's one of these people who doesn't want to take a side. And I would say the only side he wants to take is his own and money-making, really. And I don't mean that in a negative way. He's just a businessperson. And so, the values are a little less important to him, in that regard.
COLLINS: Yes, well, and you just put that on top of Mark Zuckerberg having dinner with Trump, and having those moments.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, we are just seeing a notable approach, given how critical Trump has been, at times, of these two individuals.
SWISHER: Yes, it's sort of don't-upset-the-lion kind of thing. And Mark Zuckerberg was threatened with prison, by Donald Trump, during the campaign. And maybe that was just rhetoric.
A lot of the tech executives I've talked to recently, keep telling me -- I just interviewed Marc Benioff today, of Salesforce. And he was like, Oh, it's just rhetoric, and wait till we see if he does anything. I think that's their sort of wait-and-see attitude.
And in Jeff Bezos' case, he watches Elon Musk, who he competes with in the space race with -- he has Blue Origin. And obviously, Elon Musk has SpaceX. And so, he wants to get in there. And he was competing for those big contracts at NASA and other places. And Elon's got the upper hand, obviously, and probably the better technology too, in that case, if I had to pick. And so, he's going to do that.
I think the problem Jeff Bezos have is he owns a newspaper. He's not like any other CEO. You can see if Tim Cook does it, or Satya Nadella. That makes sense for them to sort of be on in the middle, on the fence, and be friendly. With Bezos, he's got a real problem. He owns The Washington Post. And so, that puts him in the crosshairs of Trump, which is what happened last time.
COLLINS: Yes, I do wonder how he balances that. Because obviously, The Washington Post does fantastic reporting.
SWISHER: He doesn't.
COLLINS: They have -- they have a great long story--
SWISHER: It does.
COLLINS: --out tonight, on Pete Hegseth, which has been the center focus here--
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: --at Mar-a-Lago.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: And so how does one balance, owning The Post, and treading lightly around Donald Trump?
[22:00:00]
SWISHER: I don't think you do. I think he's got a real problem, going forward. I mean, and especially because he's like -- like the others are sort of saying, Good luck, we believe in American innovation. And I think Bezos has been particularly effusive. It's a little bit embarrassing.
So, I don't know. I think one of the things -- you know, a lot of the stuff he's done has been problematic. He probably is going to have a real difficult time, owning that newspaper, and also competing for business.
COLLINS: Yes, it's an interesting dynamic.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: Kara Swisher, as always, thank you for your thoughts tonight.
And thank you all so much for joining us live, here on West Palm Beach, tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
