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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
House Passes Spending Bill Without Trump's 11th Hour Demand; Suspect In Attack On German Christmas Market In Custody; Senate Passes Childhood Cancer Research Bill After It Was Removed From Funding Deal. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 20, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Just an amazing voice.
Again, "Luther: Never Too Much" premiers, New Year's Day, at 08:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN.
And the news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts right now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE, tonight.
We are awaiting a vote in the Senate, as soon as this hour, to avert a government shutdown, just under the wire this evening. Democrats are declaring victory. Speaker Mike Johnson is declaring victory. Even Elon Musk is declaring victory. But Donald Trump is radio-silent, after he got a pinky-swear promise in return.
We're also live on the ground, in Germany, tonight, where a driver plowed through a Christmas market, in what authorities suspect was a deliberate attack. A toddler is among the dead tonight. Scores of people have been injured in the carnage. And our CNN team is there on the ground.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air, this Friday night, we are awaiting that critical vote in the Senate that will keep the U.S. government from shutting down, just after midnight tonight.
It's a vote that could happen at any moment. And trust me, we are keeping a close eye on it, especially given how wild the last 48 hours alone have been, over there on Capitol Hill.
The drama has been stretching all the way from House Speaker Mike Johnson's office, in the Capitol, to Donald Trump's, down at Mar-a- Lago in Southern Florida.
Despite the President-elect's threat to primary Republicans, who voted for a bill that did not include his last-minute demand, 170 of them just voted to defy him tonight. They joined nearly every House Democrat, to keep the money flowing, keep those Christmas flights home on schedule.
And this new bill that passed the House tonight strips out much of what Elon Musk did not want in it initially, while leaving out the one thing that Trump really did. Lifting the nation's borrowing limit, a.k.a. how much money the federal government can borrow to pay its bills.
Trump knows it's going to be a major headache to deal with, when he takes office in just a few weeks from now, especially while he's trying to pass an ambitious, expensive agenda. But instead, Trump tonight is basically getting an IOU in a handshake deal from House Republicans.
Speaker Mike Johnson is declaring victory, this evening.
And I want to get straight to CNN's Manu Raju, who is live on Capitol Hill.
Manu, obviously, we've heard from the House. They're just happy to have this done. But now we're still waiting to see what's going to happen in the Senate. What are you hearing from senators, this evening?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is going to pass the Senate and pass the Senate overwhelmingly. In fact, it is going to take a few hours. The Senate being the Senate takes a long time to simply get an agreement on when the vote will actually occur. But it will occur and it will pass.
Because the real drama was in the House. That was the question, and we've seen the last 48 hours of just intense deal-making behind-the- scenes, because of Donald Trump's 11th-hour demands, particularly including the national debt limit increase. Ultimately, he did not get what he want. He had suffered a defeat at the hands of Democrats and conservative Republicans alike.
Now, this all comes as Speaker Mike Johnson himself is facing some criticism, within the GOP ranks, over how he handled this, raising questions about whether he can be reelected to the job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): At the beginning of this Congress, you know, we were having a large disagreement, amongst our colleagues, about how this place is going to work. And for the end of this Congress, to kind of get back into that same old way of Washington, I'm definitely not a fan of. But, you know, we're going to move forward.
RAJU: What do you think of the way he handled this bill? REP. KEITH SELF (R-TX): We need single-issue bills. It's the only way to govern.
RAJU: So, this was mishandled?
SELF: We need single-issue bills.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And that criticism came from that one Congressman, Keith Self, who also would not commit to supporting Mike Johnson for Speaker, come January 3rd.
And when that vote occurs, Johnson could really only afford to lose a couple of votes on the floor. And one Congressman today, Thomas Massie of Kentucky, told me that he would not vote for Johnson on the floor.
So, the fallout continues, both for Johnson and for Trump, because next year, given that they punted on the debt limit issue, that is only going to make things more complicated for his agenda in the first 100 days, but something that he will have to confront as he comes into office, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, not exactly a dream job.
Manu Raju, thank you for that. Keep us updated. We'll be watching very closely, to see what happens with the Senate.
And I should note tonight, we have not heard reaction from the President-elect himself. Of course, he is often very candid with his thoughts.
We did hear from the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, after he came out of that, after the House passed it. He was declaring victory on behalf of the President-elect, and also for the first friend, Elon Musk.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I was in constant contact with President Trump, throughout this process. He knew exactly what we were doing and why. And this is a good outcome for the country. I think he certainly is happy about this outcome as well.
Elon Musk and I talked within -- about an hour ago, and we talked about the extraordinary challenges of this job. And I said, Hey, you want to be Speaker the House? I don't know. He said, this may be the hardest job in the world. I think it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That might be an understatement from Mike Johnson there.
Of course, it likely does not make your job easier, when constantly, throughout this process, you have to check Donald Trump and Elon Musk's feeds on social media, to see if they approve of how the deal- making process is going on.
But of course, as I noted tonight, this has passed the House. It is now in the Senate's court now.
And I want to turn to my next source, who is in the Senate. That is the Oklahoma Republican senator, Markwayne Mullin.
And Senator, a late night for you. Obviously, this is headed your way. Do you plan to vote yes, on this bill?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Yes, I'll be supporting the bill. It's not perfect. We wanted the debt limit increase. But it's a negotiated bill.
And that's what President Trump and Elon Musk are really good at. That's why they're successful businesspeople. They lay out what they want, and they'll negotiate down to where they are willing to walk away or accept. And in this case, they're willing to accept, and so is the Republican Party.
COLLINS: Why do you think we haven't heard from Trump yet then, if he does support this?
MULLIN: Well, President Trump was engaged through this whole process.
The real question is, why haven't we heard from the actual sitting president, is President Biden. Where has he been? He's been absent this whole time.
You had President Trump, who was acting like the president, not the President-elect, engaging Congress, letting people know where he stood on certain things.
And then, the President of the United States, as we were actually facing a shutdown, is at his vacation home, not even at the White House. That's -- but, I mean, I guess we shouldn't be surprised, Kaitlan. He's been absent for--
COLLINS: Yes. Well--
MULLIN: --really, for four years.
COLLINS: And we asked Democratic senator about that last night. Biden was back at the White House, last night. And they did put out a statement tonight.
But on the, what was accomplished here and what is coming your way. Thomas Massie, over in the House, said tonight that he actually believes in some sense, he called it an institutional victory, because he said the President said, Jump, and we did not jump.
He's talking about Trump demanding that you raise the debt ceiling here, which Republicans didn't do. I mean, is this a sign that there are times, when Republicans are willing to defy some of his demands?
MULLIN: Look, the American people gave the Republicans, a mandate. They wanted something different. They didn't want the same direction the Democrat Party has taken the country, the last four years.
I wouldn't say this was any type of institutional victory. I have all the respect in the world for Thomas Massie. He's a great guy, who's had a very difficult year.
But to say that President Trump didn't get a victory? He did. Remember, he's the one that killed the bill that was 1,572 pages, that was filled with a tremendous amount of pork, and brought it down to 100-and-what-16 pages?
He's a negotiator. And when you negotiate, Kaitlan, you go in one in 110 percent, and you walk away at 69 percent, but a lot of times you're willing to accept 70 percent. And I would think, in this case, it's 70 percent.
COLLINS: But explain that to me. Because Elon Musk demanded cutting all that, the add-ons that were in there. There were many of them, of course. Trump's demand was to lift the debt ceiling. That did not happen. So, how is this a victory for Trump if he didn't get what he wanted?
MULLIN: Well, Kaitlan, you saw Elon and President Trump working together as a team. I promise you, they were visiting the whole time. Elon was taking one task that President Trump wanted. And President Trump was taking the other task. He had been very clear for quite some time, we had been negotiating.
This is what a lot of people and maybe your audience would find interesting. We had been negotiating for weeks with -- that wasn't even going to do a CR. In fact, what we were going to do was the 11 appropriation bills that had passed out of the Senate Committees, unanimously, back in July. And Chuck Schumer refused to bring those to the floor.
We had agreed to bring all 11 of those appropriation bills to the floor. That way we wouldn't have to do a CR, and have this fight all over again, and include the debt limit. And that was acceptable by a lot of Republicans -- by Republicans, Democrats that were negotiating it, and those that we visit with in the White House.
Chuck Schumer walked away from it last week and said, No, he needed the debt limit increase in his pocket to negotiate next week -- or next year with.
So, President Trump was already engaging with everybody--
COLLINS: Yes.
MULLIN: --trying to get that done.
And Schumer wanted to use the economy, because that's what the debt limit will affect, is economy. He wanted to hold the economy, hostage, just so he would have negotiating tool for his party, and forget about what the American people need.
[21:10:00] COLLINS: Well, and on that point, I mean, Mike Johnson was the one who negotiated this deal that everyone thought at the beginning of this week was going to be what was ultimately passed. Obviously, that is not the case. So certainly, there was a Republican at that table.
But on the debt limit itself, which is, is the amount of money the U.S. government can borrow to pay its bills, as you know, but just so everyone is on the same page with us here. Now that is going to be an issue in January that Donald Trump has to deal with. He did not want to have to deal with it. That's why he wanted it in here.
Today, we heard from JD Vance, who said the idea, of setting that debt limit expiration in January 2025, is the most foolish and inept thing ever done by Congressional Republicans.
You voted for that deal. What's your response to that?
MULLIN: Well, hindsight is always 20/20. It's why you don't drive out of your rearview mirror, right. When you're driving down the road, your front glass looks much different than your back glass in the way the highway looks.
If we could do that all over again, I'm sure we would. At the time, it's what we had to deal with, and it's what we did. I most definitely wish we would have set the date different. But that wasn't the option we have. And the real debt limit is--
COLLINS: So, you regret that vote?
MULLIN: I don't -- wouldn't say I regret. It's what we dealt with at the time. So, you always learn from processes, right? I mean, there's a lot of things that we could have done different. But playing the wish I would have or I could have, isn't really worth it. It's just, is there a lesson learned from it? In this case, there's a lesson learned. Let's move on and not make the mistake again.
COLLINS: Well, part of your argument, in particular, last time was, was not doing a debt limit increase on its own. You said it had to come in conjunction with cuts.
MULLIN: Right.
COLLINS: But this time, what they wanted was just a clean debt ceiling, to raise it on its own, with no cuts. Why did your position--
MULLIN: No.
COLLINS: --on that change?
MULLIN: No, we wanted cuts. That's why we didn't accept the first bill -- the first package that had 1,572 pages. We wanted to just do a clean CR, so we didn't have any fat and end-of-the-year pork spending by the outgoing Biden administration.
COLLINS: I mean, going with the debt limit.
MULLIN: Sorry?
COLLINS: I mean, and the -- that was the first version that was negotiated. That was keeping the spending levels the same.
MULLIN: Oh, yes, so that's easy, yes.
COLLINS: The second version had lifting the debt ceiling in it. But no one wanted to do it because Republicans, like Chip Roy, said, You can't do that and not also put spending cuts in there as well.
MULLIN: Well, we had different ways we're looking at this. Between Chip Roy and I, we have several differences, actually. But I'll just talk about from my perspective.
My perspective is, you're not going to get the $2 trillion of cut that they're wanting to do when half the fiscal year, FY25 is baked. Because when the CR would run out, would be March, and they wanted to have the cuts in March? Well, you can't do that with six months left.
If we were to clean the deck, and say, We did the 11 appropriation bills and not do a CR, add the debt limit to it, we could get the cuts we needed then, underneath the Trump administration, and underneath a unified Republican Congress, and be able to do $1.8 trillion or $2 trillion worth of cut in FY26. But we're still having to clean up the mess underneath FY25, the spending levels that the Biden administration put forth.
So, I get what some of my colleagues in the House were trying to do. But I think it was -- they were -- I don't think we're looking at the same picture.
COLLINS: So, on--
MULLIN: My picture is, is we can do it in FY26.
COLLINS: So, on that, you don't feel -- that does not sound like you feel beholden to the commitment that hardliners, over in the House, got tonight, about that deal. Is that right?
MULLIN: I don't know what commitment the hardliners received.
COLLINS: It was -- it was to -- an agreement to raise the debt limit--
MULLIN: I wasn't in the room at the time.
COLLINS: --by $1.5 trillion, next year, in that first reconciliation package, alongside $2.5 trillion cuts in net mandatory spending in the process.
MULLIN: Well--
COLLINS: But, I mean, it's basically an IOU. There's no written agreement. So, I mean, is that actually--
MULLIN: Sure.
COLLINS: --going to happen?
MULLIN: Well, here's -- you're probably seeing that, right, Kaitlan.
I think it's going to be very difficult for the House to pass two appropriation bills. And not that we can't do it. And if President Trump says, Let's do it. We're going to try passing two -- we're going to try passing two reconciliation bills. But it may be one of those things we have to couple it into two or into one. And if we do, the cuts may look a little different.
However, I'm confident for FY26. Once Elon and Vik (ph) start really digging into it, they're going to find a lot of cuts in that program and -- or in that fiscal year of funding. So, we're going to get to the cuts, either in reconciliation, or through our FY26 appropriation bills.
COLLINS: OK.
MULLIN: We're going to find $1.8 trillion or more in cuts.
COLLINS: We're going to -- we're going to mark that. And we'll be talking about this in a few months from now.
MULLIN: OK.
COLLINS: So, Senator, you'll come back and join us, I hope, and we'll follow up on that conversation.
MULLIN: Yes. And I hope I -- I hope I don't have to eke out (ph) on that. But I'm confident we can do it, if we really put our minds to it.
COLLINS: Well, don't worry. We'll replay this clip, regardless.
MULLIN: I'm sure--
COLLINS: We'll have a conversation.
MULLIN: I'm sure you will.
COLLINS: Senator, thank you so much. I know you got a late night. Have a great Christmas.
MULLIN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thanks for joining us tonight.
MULLIN: Merry Christmas.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: And of course, speaking of what this was going to look like, when we started this week, there were supposed to be millions in funding to help combat pediatric cancer, and conduct research, in the spending bill that initially got cut. But there is a huge development on that tonight. We're going to update you in just a moment. Also, we have the very latest on the ground, in that Christmas market attack that happened in Germany. A driver plowing through a crowd, injuring dozens, killing two, at least a toddler. We'll have an update in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, Congress appears to have narrowly averted a disaster of its own making, right under the wire, per usual for this time of year.
But the fallout is just getting started, as the last-minute deal is now making its way to the Senate, this evening. We have still not heard from the President-elect. We have been checking his Truth Social. Nothing from him, yet.
[21:20:00]
We did hear from Speaker Mike Johnson, who said he spoke to both Trump and Elon Musk.
Musk posting tonight, quote, "The Speaker did a good job here, given the circumstances. It went from a bill that weighed pounds to a bill that weighed ounces."
My political sources tonight are:
Former Obama administration official, Van Jones.
And former senior adviser to Senator Mitch McConnell, Scott Jennings.
Great to have you both here.
I will note, we've been looking at those pictures that have been -- people have been posting online, of all of the pages that were there.
Obviously, Scott, as you know, the second version that they tried to pass, yesterday, still had a lot of money that it was going to be adding, and trillions of dollars, by raising that debt ceiling.
But what is your take, Scott, on just the outcome here, in terms of Elon Musk getting what he wanted, but Trump did not get what he wanted and what he was demanding just 48 hours ago?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL: Yes, well, they'll have to deal with it when they come back. And it's not ideal. But you don't always get ideal circumstances, when you have a Congress this closely divided.
And I think we should expect in the future, because of how closely divided the Congress is going to be, there's going to be some messy times for Trump, his agenda, for his allies on Capitol Hill. It's going to be a little messy.
There's obviously some Republicans in the Conference that aren't always going to want to go along. And I think, to me, that's a big takeaway, is that Republicans are going to have to decide how much they want to help Trump. And the vehicle to do that is to stay unified.
When you don't have a unified party, and you have such a closely divided chamber, disunity and lack of teamwork can be the enemy of progress. So, I think when Trump takes over, I think that's something he's going to have to stress, is that, Look, we're a team here. And if you want to get stuff done, you all are going to have to stick together. Do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
COLLINS: Yes.
And Van, on that. We do hear from a lot of critics, who say Republicans aren't willing to defy Trump. They do everything he wants. Yes, generally, that is often the case. But we did see 170 of them, tonight, vote for this, when it didn't include what he said, would warrant a primary challenge if they did.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I don't know, slow clap, I mean? Look, but we--
COLLINS: Yes.
JONES: I don't know, like, I guess that's good.
Look, here's the reality. Two private citizens, a billionaire named Donald Trump, who is not yet president, and a near-trillionaire named Elon Musk, have more power than the Speaker of the House, to set the agenda. And if they want to throw a fit on Twitter, it affects the entire government. And Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet.
There are big, fancy college words called oligarchy, plutocracy, that folks tonight might want to look up. It's called ruled by rich folks. And that's what we're dealing with. A bunch of rich folks -- two rich people threw a fit online and threw the government upside-down. That is not good for America.
Now, did the bill go from big to little? What happened is that the bipartisan deal that got struck, by elected officials of our country, were overthrown by two billionaires throwing a fit. And it's not even January.
COLLINS: Scott, what's your take on that?
JENNINGS: Well, if Van is concerned about unelected officials running the government, I would invite him to review the last four years of the Biden administration.
And maybe pick up The Wall Street Journal this week. We've apparently had a president that's so diminished, that his staff has been hiding it from the American people, and making key decisions on behalf of our government, despite never having been elected to anything at all. So, if you're concerned about it, tonight, maybe take a look over the last four years.
Look, I think ultimately, all is well that ends well. The government did not shut down. We're not in any kind of crisis over the holidays here. And when the Republicans get sworn in, in January, and Trump comes to the office, on January the 20th, they're going to have to come together as a team and decide, Are we going to work together or not? That's ultimately how you get things done in a legislative body.
This is where the Democrats had some things right. Jeffries had them unified, and that's good for them. Republicans need to look at that and say, If we don't stay unified, Trump is not going to get done what he wants to do, on immigration, or taxes, or anything else. That, to me, is the big message here.
COLLINS: Yes.
JENNINGS: Unity helps. Unity helps.
COLLINS: I mean, Van, on that. More Democrats in the House voted for this Plan C, as we'll call it, than Republicans did tonight.
And I just look at that and think, OK, when there's other issues that arise, and we're hearing from Tom Homan, on -- you know, who's going to be the border czar, on how much money they need, to carry out mass deportations, and the other things on Trump's wish list, come 2025. I mean, it is remarkable how just even one Republican, or a few of them can really throw everything into turmoil.
JONES: Yes, they've got a party, doesn't govern very well, and we'll just see how they do.
But, look, Scott's right. Because you're so evenly divided, one, two, three or four people can go in any direction.
I'm proud of Democrats, tonight. I mean, look, if Democrats wanted to, they could have said, Look, we had a deal. You guys are acting like idiots. We're just not going to do anything except what we said. And we'd be in a shutdown right now.
[21:25:00]
It was Democrats that saved Christmas. It was Democrats that decided that we weren't going to flush America down the toilet. And I hope we're probably going to have to do that a lot, going forward, because this party is the gang that can't shoot straight, and they're usually shooting at each other.
COLLINS: Scott, do you think Mike Johnson is going to be House Speaker, come January 3rd, when the election is?
JENNINGS: Well, first of all, only Van -- only a Democrat would think that the government delivers Christmas, A.
B, yes, I -- look, yes, I do. I do. Because he is a strong ally of Trump, and I -- my understanding is, he's been in touch with Trump, and they are unified.
And I think, ultimately, Republicans are going to come to their senses here, and realize that a protracted battle over Speaker of the House, or continued protracted bouts of infighting, are ultimately going to derail the Trump agenda.
To me, if I were in Trump's shoes, this is what I would stress to my team. You guys fighting amongst yourselves, you're hurting me, and anybody participating in that is hurting me. And I think that message will resonate.
So yes, I have confidence in Mike Johnson. Obviously, it's a closely divided House. But he deserves to go back to be the Speaker. He's doing -- this is a tremendously difficult job, and I think he's doing the best job he can. And I do believe he has the backing of the President.
COLLINS: Yes, I think we heard he was, it's like gallows humor, he was making jokes today. Who else could get 218 votes? I don't know.
Scott Jennings. Van Jones. Great to have you both here tonight. Thank you.
JENNINGS: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to go to Germany, where there is a really traumatic story happening. We're learning new details tonight, this Friday before Christmas, a man plowing his car through a crowded Christmas market in Germany, injuring dozens. A toddler is among the dead.
We have reporters live, on the scene, with the very latest.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Breaking news, this hour, after at least two people, including a toddler, are dead, and 68 others are injured, after a driver plowed into the crowd at a Christmas market, in Magdeburg, Germany, about a 100 miles west of Berlin. It was on a very busy night, only five days before Christmas.
And I should note, you're seeing the aftermath here. We're not showing the video of the moment that that car sped through the market. It is quite gruesome. But you can see people on the ground, the chaos that followed after that happened.
A suspect is in custody tonight. He is a 50-year-old doctor from Saudi Arabia, we are told, who has lived in Germany since 2006.
CNN's Senior International Correspondent, Fred Pleitgen, is at the scene, and joins me now.
And Fred, what are you hearing from German officials, tonight, about the car that was used in this attack?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest that we have from the German officials, Kaitlan, is that the car apparently was rented shortly before the attack took place. It's unclear how long before, but it seems it was only just a very short time, and that the suspect then plowed through this Christmas market at a very high pace.
I'm actually at a place, where you can see the entry point to the Christmas market. You can see over there, that sort of pedestrian street there, where you have some of those ornamentation standing around. That's already part of the Christmas market.
It also appears as though, that might be one of the sort of weak spots that he could have barreled down that road, because other places, other entry points of the Christmas market that we have seen, had barriers there that cars would have not been able to get through. But here, as you can see, this is a street that he -- that he potentially could have driven through.
Now, what we know is that the car apparently drove several 100 yards through the Christmas market before it then came out. And so, obviously injuring a lot of people there. The authorities are saying that they fear that more people could die as a result of this incident. They say that a lot of people are just very severely injured, of those 68 people who were injured in this incident.
The car was then later stopped on a major road. The suspect was taken into custody, but certainly not until he had done a lot of damage that, of course, a lot of police officers here have been on the scene for a very long time, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And what else do we know about those victims, those who are injured, as well, as the two that we do know were killed. Because I know -- I read, hospitals in the area have exceeded capacity, treating them.
PLEITGEN: Yes, exceeded capacity by far. So what we know is that of the 68 or so of victims, that apparently 15 are in severe, critical condition, and that's why the authorities say they fear that the death toll could actually rise further.
But one of the things that we've seen, as we've been on the ground here, in Magdeburg, is that there have been ambulances coming and going in the entire time. Obviously, this is a mass casualty event, by far, overwhelming the hospitals of this city. It is a fairly large city. The City of Magdeburg has quite a big urban area around it as well. But even that wasn't enough for the many victims that came in.
So, the other thing that we've been seeing as well, for instance, helicopters, airlifting people to hospitals around the area as well, just to be able to come to terms with this. It was a very quick response, I have to say, from the German authorities. They also built up tents, and other things, to help the people who were not as severely wounded.
But it certainly exceeded the capacities of any of the hospitals that are around the greater area of the City of Magdeburg. And so, a lot of the patients had to be flown further away. And this is something, obviously, a lot of these people are going to need treatment over the past couple -- over the next couple of days as well, as all of this goes on. Obviously, also, a huge issue here for Germany as well. The German
Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, is going to come and visit this area in the next couple of hours, as obviously this entire country is absolutely in shock after what happened, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, it's just devastating.
Fred Pleitgen, keep us updated with what you're hearing tonight.
As we're looking at the details of this attack, I do want to bring in CNN's Senior Law Enforcement Analyst, and the former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe.
Also here, is the former D.C. Chief of Homeland Security & Intelligence, Donell Harvin.
And it's great to have both of your expertise here.
[21:35:00]
Because Andrew McCabe, on this suspect, which, as Fred noted, there, was arrested, taken into custody just a short time. I mean, he was able to drive through the Christmas market, and drive off after this attack. What are investigators doing, right now, in order to learn more about him and the motive here?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY FBI DIRECTOR: Well, Kaitlan, no doubt they took -- I'm sure, they took an attempt to speak to him, gave him the opportunity to, kind of provide information.
Now, Germany has similar laws to the United States, in which, after arrest, you're entitled to maintain your silence. You don't have to make any statements. You're entitled to an attorney. You're entitled to an interpreter, if you don't speak the language.
So, it depends on whether or not he felt free to speak. Although it seems ridiculous that anyone would talk after doing such a horrible thing. But oftentimes, people with a strong extremist agenda interact with law enforcement, because they want people to know why they did what they did.
In addition to that, I would expect that they are pursuing search warrants at his residence, possibly at his business, and those really are focused on recovering electronic devices, computers, telephones, tablets, things in which -- devices that he used to communicate. Things that would reveal his internet search history, his communications with other people. Things that would help law enforcement and intelligence officials understand his network of friends, associates, business contacts, things like that.
So, they're going to try to learn, very quickly, everything they can about him, not just to reveal his motive, but also to understand if, if he revealed these plans to anyone else, if he possibly relied on anybody else for assistance in the planning and the execution of this attack. COLLINS: Yes.
MCCABE: So, it's a -- they have a lot of work ahead of them right now.
COLLINS: Well, and Donell, you were just at a German Christmas market, in Munich, last week. And you heard Fred talking there that there are barricades at other entry points, but this seemed to be basically a soft target, this one area that did allow a car to get through.
I mean, just as someone who does this for a living, what did you notice when you were there on the ground?
DONELL HARVIN, FORMER D.C. CHIEF OF HOMELAND SECURITY & INTELLIGENCE: Well, never having had the opportunity before, to attend a German market, I took it upon myself, while I was in Germany, to visit three of them. And I was struck by several things.
One, just how packed it was. Think of Times Square just before Christmas or Macy's.
The other thing is that there was very little places to make good an escape if I was trying to get away from something like this.
And the third thing was that there was almost no uniform police presence. Now, I'm not here to second-guess the German authorities. But generally, when we have uniform marked police presence, that acts as a deterrent to many individuals.
And so, those were things that I noticed, not just in these markets, but also in Poland, when I visited there as well.
COLLINS: Yes, and when you look at that, Andy, I mean in terms of the response here, overall. They're looking at the actual layout here and the security of this.
You heard Fred saying, the German Chancellor is going to this town, west of Berlin, tomorrow, to visit.
In terms of intelligence-sharing, as they're looking at this suspect, who I noted earlier, has been in Germany since 2006, what is -- what kind of role does the FBI and the CIA play, in something like this?
MCCABE: Well, I can tell you that -- I mean, Donell's comments are remarkable. Because there's a long tradition of extremists targeting these Christmas markets, in Germany. The 2016 attack, which everybody remembers. There was a second one, in 2018, in which five additional people died.
And then, earlier this month, there's all sorts of reporting in Politico, and other places, that several individuals were arrested for plotting to attack one of these markets. So, they certainly were adequately warned.
Now, they are saying that they had no prior knowledge of this person on their intelligence or law enforcement side. If that's the case. Here in the United States, with the FBI and the CIA, there's no doubt that U.S. authorities are going through every database they can find, right now, to see if this person showed up on their radar in any way.
If he was picked up in overseas communications surveillance, if he was stopped and searched for some reason, crossing a border, that sort of activity, which at the time may not have seemed significant. At this point, they are looking for that information, so they can push as much of it as possible to their colleagues in Germany.
Very free and open intelligence-sharing between us and the German government. So, I'm sure a lot of folks in the American intelligence sector are working on this issue, as we speak.
COLLINS: Yes, it is just striking, given there is a history of these being targets, and to hear what Donell saw there.
We'll continue to follow this investigation closely.
Andrew McCabe. Donell Harvin. Thank you both for joining tonight.
[21:40:00]
And as we await this final vote, on Capitol Hill, to avert a government shutdown, we are watching closely, on Capitol Hill.
There has been some good news, a major development on the fight to fund pediatric cancer research. It had been cut out of the bill that we were looking at, on Monday. It sparked a bit of an out -- it sparked an outright outcry. We're going to speak to someone very close to this, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:45:00]
COLLINS: We have some breaking news for you this evening, and it's actually really good news. Because Congress, as it's getting its act together, to keep the government funded, past midnight tonight. Lawmakers, tonight, have also just passed a major piece of legislation, funding childhood cancer research.
Moments ago, the Gabriella Miller Kids First Research Act passed the Senate, unanimously. Now, this Act is named in the memory of a 10- year-old girl from Virginia, who died in 2013, from an inoperable brain tumor.
Since 2014, a federal program in her name has funded over $100 million in childhood cancer research, well over $100 million. And now, with the passage of this bill, tonight, that research will be funded into 2028.
But it has been a roller coaster for supporters of this bill to get here, this week. Because the funding was initially part of that deal to fund the government that had been concocted and debated with Speaker Mike Johnson. It was then stripped from the bill, after Donald Trump and Elon Musk complained that that was -- legislation was filled with government waste. And then, tonight, Senators picked up the original bill that had passed the House, back in March, and just languished in the Senate. And now, finally, it will head to President Biden's desk.
The passing, I should note, answers the call that Gabriella Miller herself made two weeks before she died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABRIELLA MILLER, ELLYN MILLER'S DAUGHTER: I need my childhood. And you know, less and less kids are going to have their childhood if awareness -- if -- if people don't raise awareness and raise funds.
Talking's bull (bleep). We need actions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Gabriella's mom is the Founder of the Smashing Walnuts Foundation, which advocates and raises awareness for childhood cancer, as you heard from her daughter just there.
And Ellyn joins me now.
It's great to have you here. Because we wanted to have you on after this had been stripped from that initial bill, to talk about what was going on here.
Now, this surprise tonight. What is your reaction to hearing that the Senate finally passed this bill?
ELLYN MILLER, GABRIELLA MILLER'S MOM: Elation for not just myself and my family and in honor of my daughter, but for our entire childhood cancer world. This means so much to all of us.
COLLINS: And of course, as I was saying, this is something, the House had passed a version of this in March. It was sitting in the Senate and had not gone anywhere.
And I just wonder, you know, we talk about all the drama on Capitol Hill and the ins and outs, and all of this mundane stuff. But on something like this that is so important, it means so much to families, including ones like yours, I just -- I can't even imagine your frustration that you must have been feeling this week.
E. MILLER: The elation, like you had said, when we heard that our legislation was going to be in the CR, and it lasted for a night. And then the next morning, we hear that practically the entire piece of legislation was to be stripped.
And the tragedy about that is there are so many important pieces of legislation that benefit children with cancer and other diseases. And to have those become a casualty of a political war, when, in fact, that's actually something that we need more than ever, is to take care of our children.
COLLINS: Well, and hearing from your daughter there in that video, where she was just speaking so bluntly, about the stakes here, and what this means for children like her that had to deal with and live with this.
I wonder, what can you tell us about how the research and how the funding, what this does mean to you?
E. MILLER: Absolutely. Well, an interesting point to share, first, is that when Gabriella was interviewed, back in 2013, it was two weeks before she died. And actually, our government was in sequestration.
And we live in Northern Virginia. And so, we're equal distance to the Capitol, as we are to the NIH and NCI campuses. And we personally knew families, whose children were going to NCI for their life-saving treatments, and they were being turned away, because we could not balance our budget.
And so, today, when we were at the possible edge of that happening again. We're thrilled that we now have something that is passing, but saddened because -- because, like I said earlier, there are too many pieces of legislation that we need passed to help our children.
[21:50:00]
The research that is being done is so exciting, right now, because it's not just the science and the medicine. With the newest innovations that we have with A.I., and other technologies, all melding together, our studies and research and findings that we are getting are coming to us faster than ever before. And it would be a true tragedy if we don't have the funding to help advancements for our children.
COLLINS: Yes, absolutely, and very well-said.
And Ellyn, I'm just so happy for you, and for your daughter's memory, and to have this moment, resurrected in this after -- at the bill, and what happened earlier this week. It's a one nice ending that we've seen here in the news cycle.
Ellyn, thank you for joining me tonight.
E. MILLER: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to talk on the political front, in Washington, as we're hearing more about what it's going to look like, when Donald Trump does retake office, from one of the closest insiders, the first time. Steve Bannon weighing in on Trump's FBI pick, Kash Patel, and who he predicts he'll investigate.
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COLLINS: President-elect Donald Trump's list of potential FBI targets may already be for sale on Amazon.
[21:55:00]
There's a new interview, with The Bulwark, out tonight, where Steve Bannon, who worked in the West Wing, during the first term of Trump's presidency, said that his pick for FBI director, this time, Kash Patel, is serious when it comes to investigating the people that are listed in his book, "Government Gangsters."
And I'm quoting him now. Steve Bannon, said, "I would say Kash's book is more typing than writing," OK "It's not a literary thing. But when you see it, it's so in your face and at the end he lists on eight pages people from the Deep State that need to be investigated... So I think it's pretty transparent."
Patel himself has also named some of those names, publicly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASH PATEL, PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT TRUMP'S PICK FOR FBI DIRECTOR: Whether it's Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Barr, Haspel, Esper, what have you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources, Van Jones and Scott Jennings, are back with me.
I know I told you good night, earlier. But you're back here.
Scott, let me start with you.
Because on this front, we have heard from a lot of Republicans, in the Senate, who have been looking at Kash Patel, evaluating him, seeming quite enthusiastic about confirming him as the FBI director.
But Steve Bannon is out there, saying, This is real, this is going to be something that he pursues in this position.
JENNINGS: Yes, a couple things strike me.
Number one. This is what Senate confirmation process is for. So, when Patel goes before the Senate, and I'm sure maybe he's getting these questions privately as well, he'll have to answer questions about what he has said, in his own words, and also what other people are ascribing to him, like Steve Bannon. He'll have to do that under oath.
Number two. I can only really go to what Donald Trump has said. He's the boss. And what he has said publicly in his "Meet the Press" interview, on NBC, was that he's not going to direct anybody to go after his political enemies. And in fact, it sounded to me, in his interview, like he was very much focused on the future, not in going back into the past.
So, I think between the Senate confirmation process, and what Trump has publicly said, I suspect we'll learn a little bit more about this, between now and January 20th, or the end of the month.
COLLINS: Van, is that your view of it?
Because I also watched that same "Meet the Press" interview. And Trump was saying, No, no, I won't be in charge. It's up to Pam Bondi and Kash Patel. But if these people did something that's reasonable to investigate them, that should -- that should happen.
I mean, I think the question was, how do they define reasonable.
JONES: Are you asking me if I'm worried? Yes, because there's never been anybody coming in as an FBI director with a published enemies list, OK?
Edgar Hoover was doing that type of stuff. But it was secret, it was private. This guy is coming out, saying -- you know, don't forget, Edgar Hoover abused the FBI, unbelievably, hurt Dr. King, hurt the civil rights movement, may have resulted in people being actually killed.
So, you can have a very terrible FBI director. They don't usually come in telling you they're going to do that. This guy is coming in with a published list.
Now, Donald Trump is saying that he wants to move on. But if he really wants to move on, why doesn't he pick somebody who also wants to move on? He's picking somebody, who doesn't want to move on. And I think that's very, very troubling.
COLLINS: Scott, how would you feel if, let's say, this was four years ago, and Biden was picking an FBI director, and it was someone who had a book that named names, in the way that Kash Patel's book does at the end?
Would you view it in the same way that some Republican senators have, who have kind of dismissed it?
JENNINGS: I mean, you're asking me to try to come up with an emotional reaction to a post-hypothetical.
I mean, Joe Biden's administration did investigate Donald Trump. I mean, it's not a hypothetical. It did happen. They--
COLLINS: They also investigated Joe Biden's son.
JENNINGS: Sure. I'm just -- I'm just--
COLLINS: Come on.
JENNINGS: So, I mean, that the things that really happened here are that the Biden administration did go after Trump. So, I mean, my feelings on that at the time were, some of this was dramatic overreach, like, raiding the President's house in Mar-a-Lago was completely out of line.
Nothing has happened yet. Patel isn't even confirmed yet. We're already sort of writing some dystopian fan fiction into the future. Look, I have great--
COLLINS: No -- Scott -- wait -- hold on. This is not a hypothetical. Because he actually did write this in his book. So, I'm asking you-- JENNINGS: I know. But--
COLLINS: --how you would feel, if it was not a Republican president, and someone that he had nominated?
JENNINGS: I'm telling you how I did feel when it was a Democratic president, who raided the president -- the former President's house. And that night, I felt pretty bad about it, and I thought at the time, it was a huge overreach, a major mistake, and it was going to help rejuvenate Donald Trump's political career. And I was right.
And so, how do I feel about it now? My view is, is that people who -- if people had broken laws, they deserve to be investigated. If they have not, they do not.
My personal view about Donald Trump is he's got an agenda built around immigration and the economy. And 99.9 percent of the entire administration's focus needs to be on that. That's my view.
COLLINS: Van, I also kind of, I'm curious on how these candidates are portraying themselves, in these meetings, with these senators, after they have said a lot of this publicly. But, if you're saying, I'm not saying that, what does that look like in those meetings?
[22:00:00]
JONES: Well, I mean, they can play out here, however they want to. But their record's pretty extensive. And as far as fan fiction, the fan fiction was written by Kash Patel, and now he's on the way to being the FBI director. So, that's the scary part from me.
COLLINS: Yes.
All right. Van Jones. Scott Jennings. Hopefully you are not on any enemies list. Thank you so much for joining tonight. Actually, good night and have a good Christmas.
Thank you all so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
