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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Delta Plane Flips Upside Down In Toronto Crash, 18 Injured; Trump Files Supreme Court Appeal To Fire Govt Watchdog Chief; NY Gov. Signals Decision Coming On Future Of NYC Mayor. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired February 17, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. I saw him just before he was hospitalized and it was clear then that he was really having difficulty speaking because of the breathing difficulties, he didn't seem to have the lung capacity to talk for long periods of time.
He did, however, seemed very mentally alert, and I think that's what the Vatican is trying to communicate, through its statements, that the Pope is still alert, mentally, but it's physically where the problems arise for Francis.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: All right. We will wait to hear more information from the Vatican.
Christopher Lamb, thank you so much.
LAMB: Thank you.
BERMAN: All right. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE, tonight.
A Delta flight crash-lands on the runway, as passengers emerge alive from an upside-down burning aircraft. We have brand-new details about what went wrong, and new video from the scene.
Also, President Trump's fight for more power now reaches the Supreme Court, as he suggests he's not breaking any laws if he's, quote, Saving the country.
Also, there's new fallout, this evening, for New York City mayor, Eric Adams, as four of his top deputies are quitting, with a major name now calling on him to do the same, after the Justice Department moves to dismiss his corruption case.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, we're getting our first update, from Canadian officials, on that crashlanding on the runway in Toronto. All 80 passengers and crew members, on board that Delta jet, survived, after the plane, which was coming from Minneapolis, somehow flipped upside-down, and caught on fire, while landing at Ontario's Pearson International Airport. We're told tonight that 18 people were injured.
But it is remarkable, just looking at the scenes of these people rushing, to get out of the smoking wreckage, that everyone made it out alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drop everything, drop it. Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't take your phones. Put that phone away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't (inaudible) holy (bleep). Holy (bleep). Holy (bleep). Oh my (bleep) God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You can see why those expletives are well-warranted, as another passenger captured these moments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF JOHN NELSON, SURVIVED TORONTO PLANE CRASH: We're in Toronto. We just landed. Our plane crashed. It's upside down. Fire department is on site. Upside-down. Everybody -- most people appear to be OK. We're all getting off. Some smoke going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: CNN spoke with the survivor, whose voice you hear there, just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. NELSON: We were coming in, and I did notice that, like, the winds were super-gusty, the snow had kind of blown over the runways.
When we hit, it was just a super-hard light like -- hit the ground, and the plane went sideways and, I believe, we skidded like on our side and then flipped over on our back.
It was mass chaos. I was upside-down. The lady next to me was upside- down. We kind of let ourselves go and fell to hit the ceiling, which is surreal feeling. And then, everybody was just like, Get out. Get out. Get out. We could smell like jet fuel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Just remarkable to hear that witness' story. And the investigation into what happened, and why he and all these other passengers went through this is just beginning.
As a chopper pilot who was nearby, witnessed the crashlanding, and provided this account of what they saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEDEVAC HELICOPTER: Where is the crash?
TOWER: It's on runway 2-3, right at the threshold, right at this intersection there. 2-3 and 15 left.
LifeFlight 1, Medevac, just so you are aware there are people outside walking around the aircraft there.
PILOT: Yes, we've got it. The aircraft is upside down and burning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: CNN Aviation Correspondent, Pete Muntean, starts us off.
And Pete, what are the latest that officials are saying about what happened here.
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: They're saying so much over and over again that this could have been so much worse.
Remember, it was not even three weeks ago that we were talking about the midair collision, over the Potomac River, in Washington, D.C., where all 67 lives were lost.
Now, in this case, Delta Airlines Flight 4819, all 80 on board, OK, mostly with minor injuries, according to the airport's CEO. And hats off to the fire crews, the pilots, the flight attendants, even the passengers, for evacuating this plane very quickly.
You can see in some of the videos that they used the overhead bins, essentially, as the walkway. That became the floor, as they tried to get out of this plane through some of the overwing exits that were turned into essentially underwing exits, if the right wing was still there. That completely sheared off, along with the tail of this airplane.
[21:05:00]
The big questions now, how did this airplane end up on its back? Because the flight tracking data shows a relatively normal approach as this plane was coming in, stabilized on the glide path, on speed and altitude, things looked OK.
It's the last few seconds, the few -- last few moments, that are the big mystery now. And that's what investigators are really trying to drill down on, at this very early stage of this investigation.
COLLINS: So what happened? Do we know what happened to the right wing of the plane? It was gone?
MUNTEAN: Yes, it may have been sheared off, essentially, in a crosswind situation. The wind was coming from the right. One of the common techniques to correct for a crosswind is to put the wing into the wind. We could see it in some of the video there. It was clean off, back by the tail of the airplane.
It's something that investigators will, of course, want to look at, the physical evidence, the ground scars, and the telltale signs, they call them witness marks, of where the pieces of the plane ended up. But they'll also look at the electronic evidence, the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder. That will be so key. And the weather reports, at the time.
We know the wind at the time was 27 knots, gusting to 35 knots, about 40 miles per hour, at a pretty biting angle, about 40 degrees to the runway. That can make things pretty challenging, although not out of the realm of capability of professional pilots that may only just be a snapshot, though.
Was there an errand gust here that caused the wing to lift up, and this plane to cartwheel over? Or was there some ice on the runway that may have caused the airplane to slip slide along? There's some really big questions here. We know the Fire Chief at Toronto Pearson said those two things are not factors. Although, now it's up to investigators to figure out whether or not that is actually the case.
COLLINS: Yes, and we'll see what they determine here, and how quickly they figure that out.
Pete Muntean, thank you for that update. We'll check back in with you, if there's anything new.
CNN Aviation Analyst, Mary Schiavo, is also here with us.
And Mary, it's great to have you.
You heard Pete there, kind of laying out--
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST, FORMER TRANSPORTATION DEPT. INSPECTOR GENERAL: Hi, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: --what it could have been that went wrong here.
From your initial assessment, what are you looking at, in terms of how this plane ended up upside down, and on fire, on this runway?
SCHIAVO: Well, Pete hit the main points right on as usual. So, we had a conflict on the wind. And I'm glad he mentioned the Fire Chief said, Oh no, it was calm and clear.
Well, we have Meteorological Aerodrome Reports. They're called METARs. And it said the wind was 28 to 35 knots. Air traffic control reported 23 to 37. And a 30 to 40 degree crosswind, as Pete mentioned.
So, what I'm going to look at -- and they have this data, it's on the cockpit -- it's on the flight data recorder, and it's also on radar tapes that, I mean, I could actually access on publicly-available sites.
You're going to look at the roll, how was the plane rolling back and forth like this. You're going to look at the vertical speed, because if you're hitting all kinds of gusts, your vertical speed, as you bounce up and down, changes. And you're going to look at your ground speed. If you're getting headwinds, your ground speed will change, et cetera. So, the investigators will be able to sort that out.
But on this aircraft, yes, it can -- it can take crosswind up to 37 knots, which would be within this range, but not if your runway is foul, if you've got ice, snow, reduced braking action, et cetera. The crosswind limits on this aircraft, a CRJ900, can be as low as 15 knots. So, the investigators are going to look at that. And so do I.
If this plane was coming in, as was in the limits, as it clearly or should have been, if it went ahead and proceeded to land, then what looks likely is exactly what Pete said. It got caught a gust. I've been -- in flight training, I was in the same situation. You caught a gust, and if your wingtip hits that ground, you're going to flip, most likely.
Also, if the landing gear was damaged in that hard landing, that could have also caused it to bounce up, catch a gust of crosswind, that could also contribute to the flip.
It doesn't take away from the fact that everyone on board is very lucky that they were able to get away with their lives.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, and that was the real question when we first saw this. The pictures of it, just upside-down. I mean, it was just such a remarkable scene. You can see the snow there on the tarmac.
I want you to listen to what air traffic control was hearing, right before this plane had been cleared to make that landing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PILOT: Toronto tower, Endeavor 4819, on the ILS 2-3.
TOWER: Endeavor 4819, Toronto tower, wind 270, 23, gust 33. Clear to land runway 2-3. Might get a slight bump in the glide path, there will be an aircraft in front of you.
PILOT: Clear to land, 2-3, Endeavor 4819.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What does it tell you when you hear that. And we're now hearing this term, crashlanding, as we're looking at what went -- what happened as this plane was landing.
[21:10:00]
SCHIAVO: Right. Well, they got the warning that the gust to 33. And of course, when the investigators look, they'll look at what the weather was given by the tower, because that'll be most current. The Meteorological reports can be, as you know, sometimes an hour old. So that'll be the operative fact, right there.
So, just before landing, they were controlled. The 33 is pretty gusty for this plane, but it sounds like it's within limits. So whatever happened, happened very quickly.
And as the passenger said, I mean, it was, seemed to be coming in OK, and then crashed, a very hard landing, most likely compromised the landing gear. Especially if it landed on one, and one side was more damaged than the other, then the side that was higher to the wind could have caught a gust and flipped over.
COLLINS: Mary, can I just--
SCHIAVO: So, the--
COLLINS: Can I--
SCHIAVO: --tapes sound good.
COLLINS: Can I interrupt you to ask, when you keep saying that it was -- this kind of plane was equipped, or it's got a limit of 15 knots. Certain planes essentially can handle certain wind speeds and crosswinds. Is that what you're saying?
SCHIAVO: Right. Right. Every plane has its own limits. Bigger planes, and many planes, have much higher crosswind tolerances. But every plane is rated. Like, the little planes that I fly, I mean, they can't take much of a crosswind at all.
And every plane has its own limits, and you must abide by those. For example, 737 has higher limits, and a 787 has even higher limits, as do Airbus aircraft. And each plane has to be flown according to its limits.
And I was on one of these very planes, flown by Endeavor, in LaGuardia, just a couple days ago. And we pulled out of the takeoff line because the pilot said, we're past our crosswind limits, and we got to get out. And we went back, and when the wind died down, and took off.
But you have to fly the plane according to that plane's limits.
COLLINS: Mary, it would be fascinating to be next to you on an airplane. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us tonight.
SCHIAVO: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also here, as you look at the scenes of that plane, you just have to think of the crew, and the passengers who are on board.
Sara Nelson is joining me. She's the International President for the Association of Flight Attendants.
And it's great to have you here, because we know AFA crew members were actually working this flight.
Have you been able to get in touch with them? Have they been able to get in touch with their families? What do we know about them so far? SARA NELSON, INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: Well, we're in touch with the crew, and what -- I can't really speculate much more, or give much more information beyond that.
But what we do know, very well, is that they performed their jobs perfectly today, and went through extraordinary conditions to do that. Finding that hole, getting everyone out of the plane, a burning aircraft, there's only seconds to do that, to make sure that everyone is safe. And they were -- they were doing their jobs perfectly.
We're incredibly proud of them. But we need to get support around them now, to be able to deal with this incident and recover from it.
COLLINS: Is everyone from the crew doing OK? Can you at least say that much?
S. NELSON: Hey, listen, this -- it's never a good day when you end up upside-down, trying to get out of a burning aircraft. But they are OK, and we are grateful for that, and we're in a position where we can recover from this.
COLLINS: I just want everyone to listen to what these flight attendants and the passengers were dealing with, as you can hear as these attendants are guiding passengers off the plane. Listen to this video that one passenger took.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drop everything, drop it. Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't take your phones. Put that phone away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't (inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You're hearing them say, Drop it, seeming to refer to luggage, and then later, Don't take that phone, put it away.
I mean, what are flight attendants trained to do in a moment like this one, which obviously they hope they don't encounter. But what is -- what is your first thing that you're supposed to do, as a flight attendant?
S. NELSON: Look, the first thing that we're going to do is we're going to find a safe way off the aircraft. So, we're going to check to see if the scene is safe, if it's possible to get out of the aircraft as quickly as possible. They did that.
They looked for that hole, they got help for passengers, instructed them to stay there and help other people off of the plane. They were giving all of those instructions, including, Leave your bag behind, don't film with your phone, don't be distracted right now, focus only on getting out of the plane and away from the plane to safety. So, this is -- this is what they were doing.
They were shouting their commands that they've been trained to shout. But they are also trained to look for that situational awareness, consistently, because the last thing you want to do is send people off of the plane, into an even more dangerous situation.
They were looking at all of that, taking all of that in, giving people very clear instructions. And everyone got out today, and can live to tell about it.
COLLINS: Obviously, every situation is different. But is there a certain time period that flight attendants are kind of instructed about, when they are going through their training of, this is the kind of most critical period if you do survive a crashlanding like this.
S. NELSON: Yes, well, we are trained that we need to get everyone off in 90 seconds, and that can be with exits that are blocked, about half of the exits. So, that's a really challenging job.
[21:15:00]
If you just think about deplaning an aircraft normally, when everything is in normal conditions. This aircraft, obviously inverted, and they had to find those exits that were available. So, it was -- it was a really pretty extraordinary set of conditions that they were working in.
And we are trained that that may be the case. We may be upside-down, we may be in the dark, we may be in cold waters. These are -- these are all of the issues that we have to think through, and are tested through, in order to be trained to do this job and getting everyone off safely.
COLLINS: Yes, it's remarkable to see these scenes.
Sara Nelson, please keep us updated, and tell the crew we're grateful for their quick work today.
S. NELSON: Thank you so much, Kaitlan. Really appreciate that. We will share it with them. And we thank everyone's support and recognition of them.
COLLINS: Yes.
And much more to come, as we are following these breaking details that are still coming out, as of his hour. We're going to turn to a source in Congress next, about aviation safety.
Also tonight, President Trump is now turning to the Supreme Court, about his presidential powers, as he declares, over the weekend, that no laws are broken, quote, by "He who saves his Country."
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Tonight, officials with the National Transportation Safety Board are joining Canada's investigation into what went wrong on Delta Flight 4819, from Minneapolis to Toronto, and how it ended up upside- down on the runway.
My next source tonight is Minnesota's Democratic senator, Amy Klobuchar. She serves on the Transportation Committee, and joins me now.
And it's great to have you here, Senator.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Given this flight took off from Minneapolis, what have you heard about what happened here?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, first of all, as your last guest explained, the flight attendants, despite this tragic crash, what -- would have been so much worse, if they had not followed their training and gotten everyone off their flight. They're like the first responders of aviation, right? They were the ones, their training kicks in. The firefighters there, right at the scene, so critical.
It's minus two degrees windchill. And when I left the Twin Cities, this afternoon, it was around that same weather. It's going down to minus 15 without windchill tonight, in the Twin Cities. And I think we get so used to this kind of bad weather and wind gusts, it's a reminder of why sometimes flights are diverted, or flights are delayed. And I'm sure this investigation will be thorough, and get to the bottom.
But today, we have to rejoice, pray for the 17 people with injuries, but rejoice in the miracle that all these people were able to get out of this plane. And remember that the safety rules that are in place, about the kind of seats and the seat belts, all of that, that's what made the difference here.
COLLINS: Yes. It's remarkable to see the work that these flight attendants did.
And obviously, this investigation is going to be underway. It's managed by the Transportation Safety Board in Canada, given where it crashed. But aviation, in general, in North America, especially is being scrutinized.
We learned this weekend, coming on top of all of this, as we're watching what's happening in Washington, that several hundred FAA workers were just fired. Their union says that they were responsible for maintaining critical air traffic control infrastructure.
Obviously, we're not linking these two. This is separate. But when you see what's happened in Washington, as we just saw the collision that happened there, a few weeks ago, do you believe cuts like the ones that we saw, this weekend, make it riskier for Americans to fly?
KLOBUCHAR: I think it's, first of all important, that we make very clear that there's no evidence this was linked to any of that.
COLLINS: Right.
KLOBUCHAR: Because this happened in Canada, and they will be taking the lead in the investigation. I've spoken to Delta today about that. But of course, NTSB will be there, working with them.
But I do think it's a warning that we have tried to keep our aviation workforce strong. And it's actually suffered, over the last few years. And we've been trying to do training and incentives in place, in law, to get more people to go into air traffic control and, really, all kinds of aviation maintenance and the like.
And it doesn't make sense to me, to be cutting some of the newer employees that we brought into, whether it's maintenance, whether it's radar, any kind of piece of this air traffic control, right now. Because we came -- we're coming back from being in a hole, and actually adding more people, and then suddenly to backtrack like that with new talent or people who had just been promoted, would be a mistake.
It's one thing to go in there and say, How can we make this more efficient? Let's -- These programs are duplicative. We're having the same person do this. Those kinds of thought for ways that any business would look at when they're making cuts. But instead, this across-the- board cuts makes no sense.
And while it was not related to what happened in Canada, it does make us pause and think about how we need to keep our safety forces strong, including people that are doing checks on these planes and the like. As you can see, it was the rules that were put in place, on these seats, and the fact that--
COLLINS: Yes.
KLOBUCHAR: --we demanded the safety that made this safer.
COLLINS: Yes. And of course, it is important to make sure they're not linked. We're not suggesting that at all. It's just, in general, the conversation that is being had about aviation safety, right now.
And in response to some criticism of these firings that happened even before the Canada jet had -- the jet crash in Canada, the press secretary over at the White House tweeted that, No air traffic controllers nor any professionals who perform safety critical functions were terminated.
[21:25:00]
Elon Musk said, you know, when someone was saying that it was people responsible for air safety, he said, Please identify which safety personnel were fired and we will bring them back immediately. To the best of our knowledge, no one affecting safety has been fired.
Are you confident about that information that is coming out from the White House though? KLOBUCHAR: Not really, because what I have been hearing is that -- when I was at TSA today, in the Twin Cities, a guy who had not been fired, let me make that clear, told me that he decided not to take the early buyout, and someone else said. I mean, as you know, these emails have gone to numerous personnel.
I mean, over the weekend, hundreds of people who guard our nuclear stockpiles were let go and fired. And then they realized, Oops, that might be really dangerous, and brought them back.
I mean, this is what's going on when you do things like this, instead of simply saying, OK, we want to make some budget cuts. We want to make things more efficient. Let's work to do this. Let's have some goals. Let's get this done.
Instead, when you do this across the board, because you're so desperate as they are, to find trillions of dollars, because you want to give tax cuts to the wealthiest, which is exactly what's going on here, this kind of thing is going to happen. And it's really dangerous.
COLLINS: I guess, the question, when you hear that is -- and I should note, this comes as SpaceX engineers were set to visit the FAA, we were told today, the Command Center. According to Musk, that was to make air travel safer. And there have been questions since FAA regulates SpaceX, with the conflicts there, what that looks like.
But the question, I think, some people would have is, are Democrats in Congress doing enough here to step in and have oversight of all of this?
KLOBUCHAR: We have a very clear path here.
And the first thing is to make sure that when the President is violating the law, which he clearly has done, that attorney generals, across the country, are bringing these cases.
Secondly, the President has said he wants to bring down costs, and we are ready to work with him on that. But in fact, costs are going up for average Americans, just as they're looking at cutting taxes for rich people.
So, we are going to be holding the line, when it comes to these kinds of activities, where they're basically just doing things to help the wealthy. And we will do it with our votes. We will do it with oversight.
We are -- Elizabeth Warren, this week, is holding a hearing on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which has brought in billions of dollars to regular people, when they went after scams. And now, the Trump administration wants to shut it down.
So, we're going to be putting big spotlights on all of this, asking the right questions at the hearings, voting against people we believe are dangerous. But in the end, this isn't just advice and consent for the Republicans. It seems to be accept and acquiesce in these nominees. And the issue here is that they have got to stand up. We're not going to be able to do this alone.
And the American people sent a clear message that they wanted to see change. But I believe it was change in bringing costs down. Not change in getting rid of people who work at Veterans Affairs, or making it harder for farmers and ranchers to be able to access loans. That's what's going on, right now, with the cuts they are making. And Democrats are standing up, and we are in this in a big way.
COLLINS: Senator Amy Klobuchar, thank you for your time tonight.
KLOBUCHAR: Thanks. Great to be on, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next, on this President's Day, the President is now asking the Supreme Court to expand his powers, amid a sweeping declaration from Donald Trump about himself and the law.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: For the first time in his second term, the front lines of President Trump's battle to expand his executive power have reached the Supreme Court.
The administration's emergency appeal is now calling on the court to allow President Trump to fire the head of a government ethics watchdog agency, in a case that is putting the future of congressional guardrails on the president's power, directly in the Supreme Court's conservative supermajority's hands.
As he is testing his legal boundaries, this post from Trump was quite notable, over the weekend. He said, quote, "He who saves his Country does not violate" his law -- the law.
My sources tonight are:
Former communications director for VP Harris, Jamal Simmons.
Former Trump White House communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin.
And retired U.S. District Court Judge, Shira Scheindlin.
And it's great to have you here.
Judge, when you see that quote? Which, I should note, was not a one- off. He posted it on Twitter. He also pinned it to his profile. What does it say to you about how Trump is viewing what the Supreme Court could soon be deciding on?
SHIRA SCHEINDLIN, RETIRED U.S. DISTRICT COURT JUDGE: Well, I think what he's saying is that, Anything I do, because I'm trying to save the country, can't violate the law.
But the problem with that is that's rather subjective. He decides that he's saving the country. And that's not the way the rule of law works. The problem is that any of us could say it. I can -- I can violate the law, because I think I'm doing the right thing. But we don't do it that way, not in this country.
We have -- we have a rule of law, which means if you don't like the law, get a new law passed by Congress. If you don't like the law, go to court and challenge the law. There are ways to attack the law that you don't like. But one of them is not to take the law into your own hands, and just violate it at will.
COLLINS: Well, it reminded me of Nixon's quote. When the President does it, it's not illegal.
SCHEINDLIN: Exactly. But it is. And he knew that too, and that's why he resigned.
COLLINS: In this case, Alyssa, as we're looking at what really Trump is trying to do. It's not just the government watchdogs that he's fired without notifying Congress. This is about Hampton Dellinger, who is an appointee from the Biden administration, who is to -- his job was to prevent the civil service being politicized.
[21:35:00]
But it's not just him. We're seeing this bigger scope of, when it comes to the 14th Amendment, Trump's power to fire civil service employees, trying to fire watchdogs about notifying Congress.
What does it tell you about Trump's view, just how he is in his second term, so far?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP WH COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: So, Donald Trump had four years, basically, as a White-House-in-waiting, down in Mar-a-Lago, in his post- presidency. And some folks thought that he was stewing, and he was mad, and he was focusing on his court cases. And that was part of it.
But he was also, as you know, planning for what his next administration would be like. And a lot of those plans dealt with the roadblocks that he felt like he encountered in the first term.
In every new piece of news that I see of like what piece he's trying to remove, or who he's trying to take some authority away from, I see his ways for him to kind of clear the deck, to be able to get more of his agenda done with fewer impediments in place.
And to some degree, he's got pretty broad authorities. But he's going so much further than, I think, we've historically seen any president go. And it is purely because he felt like there was a lot that was stonewalled, his first time in office. In this time, he wants to be able to get done what he needs to.
COLLINS: Yes, but I mean, looking at this, Trump is coming off of a Supreme Court victory that essentially argued he was immune from being able to be prosecuted for official acts, and had these kind of layers of what was official and what was not official.
I mean, there is a reason that he feels emboldened in the power that he has. And there is -- and has always been, a conservative argument for unitary power, and this theory where the executive branch can't be told what to do by Congress.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR TO VP HARRIS, CO-HOST, "TRAILBLAZE" PODCAST: Right. Every president wants to be able to do whatever he wants to do, right? And we've seen this a lot over the course of the decades.
Obviously, when the Nixon case happened, that sort of took presidential power back a notch, in a way that I think people felt good about, right? It limits -- we limited the FBI and the CIA's involvement in domestic affairs. We limited the IRS being able to be politically targeting of political opponents.
But now, it seems, the President, this particular President, Trump, has decided none of those restrictions apply to him, and it seems like he's on his way to doing whatever he wants to do.
We know that the DOGE folks are going into the IRS. We know they're getting ahold of American data. We know they're inserting themselves into payment programs for Americans. These are all things that give the President, unprecedented amount of power.
The only caution I have for Democrats is you got to stand in the way of stopping some of this. But also, the Democrats need to be proposing positive change agenda items. The American public wants change. The Democrats cannot do it, just to be seen as the obstructionist in the game. They have to be part of changing the government, for Americans, to make it better.
COLLINS: Well, and the courts are standing in his way, but they may not be for long. Because we heard from Judge Tanya Chutkan, a name that our viewers will be familiar with. She was the one overseeing Trump's now-defunct January 6 case.
But in the argument that Democratic attorneys general from several states have brought to her, when it comes to what Elon Musk, the team to do and -- can do, and what access they can have to sensitive data, and the ability to fire federal workers, she seemed pretty skeptical of their evidence today, Judge.
She said, quote, "The court can't act based on media reports. We can't do that... The things that I'm hearing are concerning indeed and troubling... But I have to have a record, and I have to make findings of fact before I issue something."
SCHEINDLIN: So, they were seeking what's called a temporary restraining order, which is an emergency order.
And all she's saying, I think, is, We don't need to rush quite that fast. We need to have a hearing. We need to have evidence. We need to have a record. And when I have a record, if I think it needs to be stopped, I will.
So, I don't take it as such a big victory, which is, I'm sure, it's being touted.
She's just saying, Not emergency temporary relief. I'm not ready to do that because I don't have enough of a record.
She wants to be bullet-proof, if she can. So, she wants a good record.
COLLINS: Yes, it is remarkable, those who were watching, this is -- how this is playing out with Elon Musk's team, an engineer showing up to the FAA today, getting into different agencies.
The other thing that happened over the weekend was on "60 Minutes," they aired a segment, and Elon Musk came out responding, calling them, quote, "The biggest liars in the world," and saying that they, quote, "Deserve a long prison sentence," in response to that.
I think we have the tweets here that we can show of what he was arguing here, in response to them. I think this was in response to a USAID interview that they had done with an official.
But what does that say to you, Alyssa, about just what this is looking like, inside the Trump administration, right now?
FARAH GRIFFIN: So, I see it different than some folks may. And just bear with me. But I think that Donald Trump is giving tremendous leeway to Elon Musk, to go in and shake up these agencies, to cut workers, to slash salaries, and to do it the way that you would a startup, which is you might break things along the way.
But by letting Elon Musk do that, he's giving himself some cover. If something goes wrong, when something inevitably falls through the craft, somebody -- cracks, somebody doesn't get something they need from a government agency? He's going to blame it on Elon. That's not going to be something that Donald Trump owns.
[21:40:00]
And I think that it's an important distinction, because Trump is not particularly ideological about all of these battles, in the way that Elon Musk keeps showing that he is. I think that there's -- he's being very strategic, and keeping some distance from what's being done.
SIMMONS: Here's the question, Kaitlan.
Here we are. I have a friend whose brother was a USAID worker. He had to basically get scurried out of the country, very quickly, because they were afraid they were going to start arresting American officials, because we weren't going to be able to pay our debts, right?
We had obligations to vendors, to staff, and Americans weren't going to be able to pay that money. They were worried about his particular safety. So, they had to get him on an airplane, quickly, get him out of the country, from his program. How is it that we are withdrawing Americans from the forefront of American policy, when we know that China, and other countries, are trying to take on Americans?
And one of the things that we're going to see, as Americans travel around the world, spring break and summer break -- and they were all treated with respect, because people respect the American government, and they admire the country. We are putting the country and our citizens in danger, in the way this government is behaving on the world stage.
COLLINS: Jamal Simmons. Alyssa Farah Griffin. Judge. Always great to have you all here. Thank you so much.
Up next, tonight, breaking -- some breaking news out of the White House, where I can now confirm that Russia has freed a U.S. citizen who was arrested not long ago, earlier this month. That's according to a senior Trump administration official, tonight.
28-year-old Kalob Byers was detained at a Moscow airport, on February 7th, after customs officials allegedly found cannabis-laced marmalade in his bag, and was being held on charges of drug smuggling.
The move comes hours before talks between Moscow and Washington, between senior officials. Some of the most senior talks we've seen since Russia invaded Ukraine, are set to happen in just hours from now.
We're also following breaking developments, here in New York, where the Governor of New York has just issued a statement, involving the future of Mayor Eric Adams, after four of his top deputies jointly resigned. That's ahead.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We have some breaking news, this hour, as we are getting a new statement from the New York governor, Kathy Hochul, where she seems to be potentially considering removing New York City mayor, Eric Adams, from his job.
Now, such an action would be extraordinary, and we do not know that this is going to happen. But listen to what Governor Hochul says, in a new statement tonight, as people are calling on her to do this very thing.
She says, "In the 235 years of New York State history, these powers have never been utilized to remove a duly-elected mayor; overturning the will of the voters is a serious step that should not be taken lightly.
That said, the alleged conduct at City Hall that has been reported over the past two weeks is troubling and cannot be ignored. Tomorrow, I have asked key leaders to meet me at my Manhattan office for a conversation about the path forward, with the goal of ensuring stability for the City of New York."
My sources tonight are:
John Miller, CNN's Chief Law Enforcement Analyst, who previously worked under Mayor Adams as Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counterterrorism at the NYPD.
And Joey Jackson, CNN Legal Analyst, and defense attorney.
John, when you hear that statement, what do you think Governor Hochul -- do you think she knows what she's prepared to do?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST, FORMER DEP. COMM. OF INTELLIGENCE & COUNTERTERRORISM, NYPD: I don't think so. She has ridden this -- these -- surfed these waves, since this started.
And, as you know, the governor, in New York State, has the power to remove the mayor, if there are charges and for cause. But that's -- he can be suspended for 30 days. She could have done that at number of points, when he was indicted and so on. She hasn't. She seems to be sticking her finger out, to see which way the wind is blowing.
COLLINS: I mean, it would be quite remarkable to see.
And I should note, when she's referencing these last two weeks. The DOJ moved to dismiss the case against him, even though we saw top prosecutors resigning, because they felt like the case was so strong, and said that they were going to bring a superseding indictment. But also, today, four of his top deputies just left.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. So, Kaitlan, there's a lot of political fallout. But from a legal perspective, what is going to happen? You still need to go before the judge. The judge still needs to dismiss the case.
And the optics of this, to be clear, that's the problem, right? Why? Because if it was just a straight pardon? We're all good. He can't be seen as a puppeteer. It's over. If it was a straight dismissal? We're all good. There's no leverage over him.
I think the problem here is that you have this--
COLLINS: But if it was a pardon, they couldn't hold it over his head?
JACKSON: Right. So, that's the issue, right? And I think that because there's a lack, I guess, of trust, between him and Trump, play ball with me, that's where they're saying.
Because now the concern is, by elected officials, is he going to be a figurehead of the White House, or is he going to be our mayor? And to the extent, Kaitlan, that they could exhume these charges because they're dismissed, what's called, without prejudice, meaning you could bring them back? That's the concern.
So, why am I saying all this? Because you can go before the judge, and the judge could ask some pointed questions. Department of Justice, what are we doing here? Are you going to dismiss? Or are you not? Are you going to bring them up at a later time? Is there a quid pro quo?
And I think the Trump administration has the ability to just outright dismiss them, so there is no optic of him being a puppeteer. And then, will this go away? It remains to be seen.
But removing him when there's a primary in three months, how much sense does that make?
Last point, Kaitlan. It's not like she can just wave the wand and remove him. He's entitled to, guess what? Due process. That means he can proffer a defense. As John said, you have 30 days where he's suspended. He could come back and say, What are you doing? And this is improper, unjust, he could raise whatever defenses.
Meanwhile, there's a looming election. The voters, I think, have a choice here. And that choice is very soon, a few months away.
COLLINS: I was talking to some Trump sources, and saying, Why is this the fight that you're picking, this early on, to go to battle over Eric Adams? It's just -- it's just surprising.
MILLER: But that's spectacularly--
COLLINS: But to the point there--
MILLER: --miscalculated.
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: But can we talk about the -- the last time this ever was attempted, I love this fact from Gloria Pazmino, FDR. But the mayor at the time, Jimmy Walker, resigned before it could happen. So, this hasn't even been attempted in 100 years, or something, or whatever.
JACKSON: It was the sheriff.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, that just speaks to what a moment this would be if she does move forward with that.
MILLER: Now, it would be -- it would be stunning, and the proximity to the election and all that.
But you have to just take a step back and look at everybody's strategy here. Mayor Adams' strategy was, Let's form alliances with the White House, and let's work with them, and maybe, maybe a pardon will come out of that.
Because what did he say? They came after me, because I criticized the White House. What did Trump say, right? They came after me because I was a political enemy. So, they became validators for each other.
The spectacular miscalculation is they could have just reviewed this indictment and said, After a careful review, we don't think that the bribery charge is strong enough to pass muster on appeal, and we think it is a flawed case, and we're withdrawing it. It would have gotten some snickers, but they could have done it with a straight face.
Actually, creating documents, and statements, and having people go on shows together, saying, We're doing this, and now he's going to help us with immigration, was to actually add the quid pro quo to this deal that the actual bribery charge seemed to lack.
Was nobody thinking here, except, We can show how we're bullying the Mayor to do our will, that this would backfire?
JACKSON: I think ultimately, though you go before the judge. The judge will ask specific questions, as to why it's being dismissed.
The usual answer, Kaitlan, John, is, We cannot prove the case beyond the reasonable doubt. In a normal world, that's what it's about. It's about the merits.
But we're not talking about the merits. We're talking about politics. He would be free to enforce immigration policy, he'd be free to fight crime. Those are not bases, in which to dismiss cases. And so, therefore, that leads to this whole big problem that could have, to John's point, been avoided.
COLLINS: And as he said today, They're dancing on my grave right now, every news headline, every report. I'm not going to step down. I'm going to step up.
MILLER: He said he's on a mission from God.
COLLINS: We will find out what -- we'll see if there's any divine intervention here.
John Miller. Joey Jackson. Great to have you both tonight.
Up next. We're going to get back to our breaking story, because that crashlanding of that Delta flight comes on the heels of other recent air disasters, only heightening concern among fearful flyers. My next source, though, has the numbers on why air travel is safe.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, we continue to monitor the latest from today's crashlanding of a Delta Airlines flight, in Toronto, where everyone on board, crew and passengers, survived.
But it's the latest aviation accident, in just the last few months, including that deadly midair collision between an American Airlines plane and a Black Hawk helicopter, last month, in Washington, D.C., and also the deadly emergency landing by a jet in South Korea, late last year.
All of that making it completely understandable why some people are wondering if it's safe to fly still. A closer look at the numbers, though, should bring you some comfort.
My source tonight is CNN's Senior Data Reporter, Harry Enten.
And Harry, obviously, this has freaked people out. You yourself--
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes.
COLLINS: --I'm not revealing any private information.
ENTEN: No.
COLLINS: You have a fear of flying too, a trepidation about flying.
ENTEN: Yes, I absolutely have a fear of flying. I like to say, it's one of the few times I find God, is when I'm about to go up or about to go down. It freaks me the heck out, right? I don't really drink booze. But occasionally, if I get a little nervous, I might have some booze before taking off.
But then, I put that fear aside, and I look at the numbers, because that's where I am, at the end of the day, I'm a numbers guy.
And what do we know? The number of deaths from commercial airliners, over the last 15 years, is dramatically, dramatically lower than it was during the 1980s. I mean, look at this. There were 984 deaths, between 1982 and 1989.
Over a significantly longer period, including that unfortunate plane crash, down in Washington, D.C., a few weeks ago, you only are dealing with a little bit more than 60 deaths. So, it's just significantly safer to fly now than it was in the 1980s, than it was in the 1990s, than it was in the 2000s. So, that's one thing we can look at.
But the other thing we can look at is those sort of close runway calls, right? Remember, two years ago, there was all this talk, right? Of all these close runway calls? But guess what happened in 2024? That story seemed to go away.
Why did it seem to go away? It went away because the close calls on the runway went down significantly, significantly from 2023 to 2024. Look at this. Seven in 2024 compared to 22 in 2023. That number in 2024, Kaitlan, was the lowest over the last decade.
So, there isn't that clear sign in the stats that airline travel's becoming more dangerous. In fact, the signs are it's becoming significantly safer.
COLLINS: And I know, hearing this argument, we obviously spoke to a lot of the people affected, by the crash in Washington. Those numbers don't make them feel any better because they lost their loved ones, and obviously are still dealing with that.
ENTEN: Of course.
COLLINS: And they see this, and they're looking at this, though.
But the other thing that people have looked at, when they do look at the numbers for flying is that versus driving, and technically, what is safer when you look at the number of accidents that happen in cars?
[22:00:00]
ENTEN: Yes, I mean, I like to put these numbers in perspective, right? And what do we know? We know that traveling by airplane is significantly safer than traveling by car. In fact, the chance of passing away in a car accident is significantly greater than the chance of passing away in an airline accident.
So when you put it all together, yes, the lives lost, horrible, horrible, horrible. But the bottom line is airline travel is significantly safer than it's ever been.
COLLINS: Yes. We'll see with these investigations, if they lead to new regulations, as well.
Harry Enten, as always, thank you so much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" is up next.
