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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Elon Musk Holds Court At First Trump Cabinet Meeting; Johnson: GOP Won't Cut Benefits For Americans Who "Deserve It"; Chief Justice John Roberts Pauses Order For Trump Admin. To Pay $2 Billion In Foreign Aid By Midnight. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired February 26, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: --yes, I mean, this is, I think, what's so interesting, right? What are you supposed to do about these egg prices being so high?
I mean, it's not much of a surprise that Google searches for egg substitutes, maybe we're talking about egg whites, Egg Beaters, maybe we're talking about even substituting in some mashed bananas in to substitute for the eggs.
Or, one of the guys that we spoke with actually said that, Why don't you just buy your own hen? And indeed, a lot of people are Googling that right now. It's record highs for that.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
ENTEN: So people are just trying different things. We'll see how it all works out. But so far, not so good, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Harry Enten, thanks very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Is anybody unhappy with Elon? That was President Trump's question, as Musk held court in his first Cabinet meeting today, speaking longer than anyone else at the table, including the Vice President.
And after a dramatic win for Speaker Mike Johnson, on Capitol Hill, passing the blueprint for Trump's trillions in tax and spending cuts. Now comes the really hard part. The Speaker himself will join me live, on what's the plan to get the Senate on board.
Meanwhile, Health secretary, RFK Jr., downplays the measles outbreak, misstates how many children have died in West Texas, and also was refuted by health officials on the ground.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
If there were any questions left about the level of power and influence that Elon Musk holds inside the White House, or in the eyes of President Trump, look no further than today's Cabinet meeting. It was the first of President Trump's second term.
And while the table was filled with his Senate-confirmed agency heads, who were tasked with carrying out his agenda. After the HUD secretary said a quick prayer, it was the Special Government employee who was seated off to the side of the room that Trump asked to speak first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Elon, if you could get up and explain where you are, how you're doing, and how much we're cutting. And it's an honor to have you.
He's sacrificing a lot and -- getting a lot of praise, I'll tell you, but he's also getting hit. And we would expect that.
ELON MUSK, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you, Mr. President. Well, I -- I actually just call myself the humble tech support here because--
(LAUGHTER)
MUSK: --this is actually -- as crazy as it sounds, that -- that is almost a literal description of the work that the DOGE team is doing is helping fix the government computer systems.
The overall goal here with the DOGE team is to help address the enormous deficit. We simply cannot sustain, as a country, $2 trillion deficits.
That's the reason I'm here and taking a lot of flak and getting a lot of death threats, by the way. I can, like, stack them up, you know.
But if we don't do this, America will go bankrupt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Elon Musk went on to speak and answer questions more than anyone else in that room besides the President.
We actually looked at the numbers. And Trump obviously spoke the most, for a total of 49 minutes and 47 seconds. But Musk spoke for six minutes and 12 seconds. That's three times longer than anyone else at that table.
The Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, clocked in at about two minutes and 13 seconds. Then Health secretary, RFK Jr. And 56 minutes into the Cabinet meeting, we heard from Vice President, JD Vance, for about 36 seconds, with Defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, right behind him.
The rest of the room was largely quiet, except for this bit of awkward laughter, at one point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Let the Cabinet speak just for a second.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Is anybody unhappy with Elon? If you are, we'll throw him out of here.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Is anybody unhappy?
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: They are -- and they have a lot of respect for Elon and that he's doing this. And some disagree a little bit, but I will tell you, for the most part, I think everyone is not only happy, they're thrilled.
So, go ahead, Elon.
BROOKE ROLLINS, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE: And grateful.
MUSK: And President Trump has put together, I think, the best cabinet ever, literally. So, I -- and I do not give false praise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, when Trump said some disagree a little bit, he could have been referring to the very agency heads, some of who were laughing there, who were not this weekend, after Musk blasted that email, at Trump's direction, he says, to millions of federal workers in the departments led by those secretaries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: Well, to be -- to be clear, like, the -- I think that email, perhaps, was misinterpreted as a performance review, but actually it was a pulse check review. "Do you have a pulse?"
(LAUGHTER)
MUSK: "Do you have a pulse and two neurons?"
(LAUGHTER)
MUSK: So, if you have a pulse and two neurons, you can reply to an email. This is, you know, I think, not a high bar.
TRUMP: I'd like to add that those million people that haven't responded, though, Elon, they are on the bubble. You know, I wouldn't say that we're thrilled about it. You know, they haven't responded. Now, maybe they don't exist. Maybe we're paying people that don't exist. Don't forget, we just got here. This group just got here. But those people are on the bubble, as they say. You know, maybe they're going to be gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: Maybe they're going to be gone.
My political sources are here tonight.
Marc Short, former Chief of Staff to Vice President Pence. He's been in that room many times.
Sarah Matthews, deputy press secretary during Trump's first term.
And Karen Finney, a Democratic strategist, and former senior adviser on Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.
Marc, your takeaways on the Cabinet meeting today?
MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I think this isn't too much a departure from the first administration, Kaitlan. I think the reality is that the President does use this forum to get a lot of press coverage. And I think he certainly knew that Elon Musk would be somebody the press would be interested in. So, I don't find it that much of a departure.
I probably look at, you know, I think that for Republicans, for decades, we've talked about actually cutting the size of government, and never do it. And so, I think there's actually a lot of things Elon Musk is doing that we should be celebrating. And for a lot of voters, they wanted a change. They wanted to dismantle the bureaucracy. But I have two concerns, long-term.
One is, if the executive branch has that much power, can do this unilaterally, what happens when a Democrat administration comes in and says, You know what? I'm going to fire all the Customs and Border Patrol or all the ICE officials. We've set the precedent that executive branch can do that.
And second is we have a government shutdown coming on March 14th. Republicans, historically, can't get enough votes to support a continuing resolution. You need Democrat votes. And Democrats are going to ask for all this funding to be restored. Is the President going to sign that? Are we headed to a shutdown?
COLLINS: Well, and the question is also how Democrats would play on that, given they have not been totally thrilled, obviously, with what Elon Musk has been doing.
But just on the dynamic inside the room, what were your takeaways, in the sense of how much we heard from Elon Musk, even compared to people who went through Senate confirmation, and are working on big priorities of Trump's, like immigration, bringing grocery prices down, egg prices, and the concerns that voters have about that.
SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: I certainly think it didn't help all of the talk out there, about him being co-President.
I mean, look, JD Vance spoke for 37 seconds, I think was what you guys tallied up. And I think that's really telling that Trump is looking to Elon for a lot of influence, in his second administration. And so, that is something that's a little bit different in comparison to these Cabinet meetings, compared to the first.
And I do think too, that the mission of DOGE, I don't necessarily disagree with. I think, as you outlined, with conservatives of -- conservatives, we want to shrink the size of government. And there is a good thing about saving taxpayer dollars. I think it's just the pace at which he's going at.
And I found it really striking in the meeting when Elon was talking about how Oops, we made a mistake when it came to Ebola prevention. But don't worry, we quickly fixed it.
And OK, but they also did that last week with firing the people protecting the nuclear arsenal.
And there're just mistake after mistake like that, and it just seems like they're moving a little too quickly and -- but I think that Trump likes that. I think that he's happy with how quickly Elon is disrupting things. And so, that's why you're not seeing him get mad.
But I think if the bad headlines continue to pile up, eventually, I think Trump is going to get sick and tired of everyone talking about Elon, and not really talking about himself. Because at the end of the day, all press is good press.
COLLINS: Well, and it did send a message to all the Cabinet heads in there, in terms of the influence Elon Musk has, and the terms that he's on with President Trump, which are clearly quite favorable.
KAREN FINNEY, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: Yes, I mean, the power dynamics were interesting, right? Like, Elon, once again, shows up in, like, I don't know, jeans and a T-shirt and a cap, which most people don't wear hats--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: His shirt said, Tech Support, I believe.
FINNEY: T-shirt that said, Tech Support. Basically, like, I get to dress cool. The rules don't apply to me. I get to talk longer than you all.
And I think it sent also a message, it seemed like Trump was trying to send a message that, This is my guy. You got to listen to him. He's going to come to your agency, and you're going to do what he -- ultimately, I'm the boss. But it certainly gave Musk more power. But look, I think the other thing that I would like to see Democrats focus on is, we're seeing Musk's numbers go down. Tesla stock went down again today. And yet, Trump is still sort of maintaining his popularity for the most part.
We need to -- they're the same. They are one and the same, and Trump owns what Musk is doing. Musk is part of the administration. And each of those Cabinet secretaries ultimately are going to own what he does within their agencies, and the harms that that might end up doing to the people on the other end of those services.
So, I think it's important to sort of tie them together, and not let Trump, kind of let him be the guy that ultimately, if he gets too popular, he can just get rid of.
COLLINS: There is a real question of what happens if an agency head disagrees with something that Musk wants to do.
I mean, when he sent out that email, part of the frustration that we heard was, one, revealing sensitive information, but also, two, agency heads saying, You can't decide who is fired from my department because they didn't respond to your email.
But Trump was very emphatic and backing that email that went out to federal workers.
[21:10:00]
SHORT: Kaitlan, I think it's going to always depend on the circumstances. I don't think there's one way you can say he's going to continually side with Musk over a Cabinet secretary. He could, just as easily tomorrow, wake up and decide, I'm going to side with the Cabinet secretary, who doesn't want these cuts.
And I think, to Karen's point, I understand her premise from a Democrat perspective. But I think the reality is that the President has a very high floor in his popularity. He always will. And so, I think the reality is that he's comfortable, as Sarah said, with Elon taking some of the bad press, right now, because I don't think it's bleeding off to him.
COLLINS: He's like a heat shield, basically.
SHORT: Yes, exactly.
FINNEY: Yes, a good point.
MATTHEWS: Yes, it is really interesting how Elon is kind of taking all of the negative headlines off of Trump. And I think that that is something that Democrats would be smart to focus on more, though, is that, Look at this person who has all this access to power. He bought his way into -- having access to the presidency into a Cabinet meeting.
And I think that while inflation went up last month, the cost of eggs continues to rise. FINNEY: Yes.
MATTHEWS: What is Elon doing? Firing the people who are working on the bird flu. And he bought his way into having access to this presidency, not because he has people's best interests at heart. It's because he wants to enrich himself.
FINNEY: Well, and he's got -- I mean, he literally has ongoing contracts in many of the very agencies, where he is making these critical decisions, right? And they say, Just trust us, I'll step back if I need to.
But the other thing we don't talk enough about is, and I know enough about technology to know, it's access to the data that really matters. And what we don't know is, are his little minions geotagging that data to make sure that even when he's not there, are they still able to get all of our data, and have access to all the same insights, which is incredibly powerful and valuable? And it means, even when he's not there, he's still going to have a lot of power.
COLLINS: Well, and lawmakers have questions about this too.
I mean, they were asking Susie Wiles today, Trump's Chief of Staff, when she went to the Senate Republican lunch, who exactly was that Elon Musk answers to. And Josh Hawley, coming out of that meeting, told our reporters that essentially she was -- they were -- she was saying that he is working directly with the President, and then the President then works with the Cabinet secretaries.
Trump was asked at one point, if he goes to those Cabinet secretaries, and gives them an order, what he expects them to do. This is what Trump -- how Trump answered that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it your view of your authority that you have the power to call up any one of or all of the people seated at this table and issue orders that they're bound to follow?
TRUMP: Oh, yes. They'll follow the orders. Yes, they will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No exceptions?
TRUMP: No except- -- well, let's see. Let me think. Oh, yes. Yes. She'll have an exception.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Of course, no exceptions. You know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I believe he was pointing at the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, when he -- when he said that.
SHORT: Well, I think that they all swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. So regardless of what the President's orders are, that is the oath that they take, Kaitlan. And that could create some challenges down the road.
But I think, again, to your question about the luncheon today with Susie Wiles. I think the President's shown he's effectively neutered the Senate. He basically showed that through this confirmation process.
But the question happens. There's a lot of things coming in the next 30 days, between a likely government shutdown in mid-March, and a full-on trade war in April. And if that begins to shatter some of the confidence, then I think you'd see something different.
But for right now, I don't think that senators, who have any concerns about Elon Musk. They're more concerned about being primaried by Elon Musk and Donald Trump.
MATTHEWS: Which is disappointing, that they're more concerned with staying in power than they are about everything that's going on, their constituents who are being impacted by these firings and all of that.
But I think that -- I even read an article today in The Bulwark that was talking about all of these GOP congressmen who were going to town halls and facing a lot of backlash. There are people who are really upset with what DOGE is doing. And then there are people who are really happy, who want to see the size of our government shrink.
But I just think that when you're starting off the administration with mass firings of thousands of workers, it definitely is going to take a toll on the economy, which was the number one issue for people.
COLLINS: Well, and it is a question of what Democrats are doing, in terms of what we have seen at these town halls. We had one Republican congressman. He blamed it on outside agitators. But he did acknowledge--
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: --they were his -- they were his constituents who were there. Maybe they didn't vote for him--
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: --but they are people he represents.
But are Democrats using that moment to -- the anger that they're seeing similar to the anger we saw back in 2017, over the efforts to change the Affordable Care Act?
FINNEY: Yes, around that and the budget process. Because while we're not talking about it, they did, in this blueprint, approve a $4.5 trillion increase in the debt ceiling.
So for as much as we're talking about all this cutting and shrinking of government, at the -- saying we're doing one thing on the one hand, and saying something else on the other hand, and how these programs get cut, like the math is not mathing.
So between the fact that the cuts that Elon keeps saying he's making that with then it's like, Oops, it's not 65, it's six, right? The numbers keep changing. And to see what actually ends up in the budget, what impact does that really have on people?
[21:15:00]
And, again, at the end of the day, members of the House all have -- are facing voters in about a year and a half. And that is going to, I think, really wedge Republicans in, particularly in those swing districts--
COLLINS: Yes.
FINNEY: --that we'll see.
COLLINS: Lot can happen in a year and a half. We'll see.
FINNEY: That's right.
COLLINS: Thank you all for being here.
Coming up. Speaking of the math. We're going to talk about Elon Musk saying that he acknowledged they did make a mistake among his government slashes.
And as President Trump is promising, the Republicans won't touch Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid. Big questions on Capitol Hill about that.
We're going to go straight to THE SOURCE with House Speaker, Mike Johnson. He is here live, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: With the cameras rolling during the beginning of today's Cabinet meeting, President Trump talked about what he wants to see happen, as Republicans in Congress are working to enact his legislative agenda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to start getting to be at a point where we can think in terms of balancing budgets, believe it or not, something you haven't heard in many, many years -- decades, actually. And it's a big -- whether it's this year or next year, I think we'll be very close to balancing budgets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But to do that, he is going to need Republicans in the House and the Senate to reach an agreement. And this is what one Republican senator told CNN today, about whether the plan that was passed, last night, by House Republicans, in a squeaker, works for them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Short answer is likely no. Long answer is, hell no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me now is the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.
Senator Kennedy is always there for a good sound bite.
Speaker Johnson, you had quite a night, last night, and ended up meeting with President Trump, and the Majority Leader over in the Senate, John Thune, today. Do you think that the Senate is going to make big changes to what you passed last night?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): No, I don't think they will. I think they understand the necessity of letting the House lead on this.
We've got a smaller margin than they do. For the first time in the modern era, the Senate Republicans have a larger margin than we do in the House. And I've got a much smaller needle to thread here. And I think they recognize that. I get a 165 more personalities to deal with than they do, and a much more diverse caucus.
So, Senator Kennedy is one of my closest friends. I love his one- liners, OK. But I think what he was referring to there in that sound bite, Kaitlan, is that he doesn't want to cut Medicaid benefits for anybody. And we don't, either. I don't, either. We're not going to do that. That's not part of this plan. And the Democrats have been lying about it. And so, it's important for us to clarify that. That's what I think he was referring to.
We're not -- we're going to take care of those, who are rightful beneficiaries of the programs. We're going to cut the fraud, waste and abuse out of Medicaid, and that's where we're going to get part of the savings to accomplish this mission.
COLLINS: But are people, who are covered by Medicaid now, going to potentially lose Medicaid coverage, as a result of this?
JOHNSON: Now look, the White House has made a commitment. The President said over and over and over, We're not going to touch Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid. We've made the same commitment.
Now, that said, what we are going to do is go into those programs, and carve out the fraud, waste and abuse, and find efficiencies. Couple of examples. There's about $50 billion estimated that are lost every year in Medicaid just in fraud alone. No one is for that. We've got to make sure we eliminate it. We have the algorithms now to do that. We have advanced technology to find it. We need to ID, provide identification for people who are Medicaid recipients, to make sure they are not illegal aliens. That's another big carve-out that we will make, to save a lot of money.
There are a lot of places to find efficiencies in these programs, and ensure they're going to the people they're intended to help.
COLLINS: Yes.
JOHNSON: If we don't do that, these programs aren't going to remain solvent. And so, that's a big part of the equation here.
COLLINS: Well, I'm glad you brought that up. Because you talk about waste, fraud and abuse that you're going to look at, instead of making cuts otherwhere.
But last year, between Medicaid and Medicare combined, there was about $100 billion in improper payments. Now, no one is excusing that, or fraud or any waste and abuse. But you're looking for much larger than that. So, where is the other $780 billion going to come from?
JOHNSON: Well, look, we're talking about cuts that are in the range of $2 trillion. But you're also talking about the whole of the federal government. We're going to involve a 11 different committees of jurisdiction in this process.
So, all this attention is being paid to Medicaid, because that's the Democrats' talking point. We're talking about a massive piece of legislation that looks at all of the fraud, waste and abuse across the government, and looks at programs that we do need to eliminate, that doesn't -- isn't talking about health care for people that are relying upon that.
Look, everybody needs to watch the process play out. We've passed the budget resolution, last night. It is merely a framework to set up what will come, the reconciliation process. It's going to take us five or six weeks, probably, to dig through all those details and come up with the final proposal. So everybody just reserve judgment. Watch us work. And you'll like the final product. I'm very excited about the moment that we're at.
COLLINS: You say Democrats are lying, when they say you're going to cut Medicaid. The plan that you passed does instruct the House Energy and Commerce Committee to find $880 billion in cuts, right?
JOHNSON: That's right. That's one of the committees. But, Kaitlan--
COLLINS: And so how do they get $880 billion in cuts from that committee, without touching Medicaid?
JOHNSON: Because E&C has one of the -- it actually has the broadest jurisdiction of any committee in Congress. It covers everything. Energy and Commerce, the name indicates how broad the jurisdiction is.
I challenge you, or anybody on your staff, do a word search for, Medicaid, on the resolution that we passed last night. You will not find it. That is not part of this equation, OK? We're talking about finding efficiencies in every program, but not cutting benefits for people who rightly deserve that.
[21:25:00]
Working requirements -- work requirements for Medicaid, that is a -- something that is public opinion polls almost 90 percent. You don't want able-bodied workers on a program that is intended, for example, for single mothers with two small children who's just trying to make it. That's what Medicaid is for. Not for 29-year-old males sitting on their couches playing video games.
We're going to find those guys, and we're going to send them back to work. That's what everybody supports. That's what the Republicans are for. And by the way, we find dignity in our work. That's going to be good for everybody.
COLLINS: And I want to follow up on that.
But on that Energy and Commerce Committee, the vast majority of funds that they have are Medicare and Medicaid.
JOHNSON: No, that's not -- that's just--
COLLINS: So, when you talk about $880 billion--
JOHNSON: It's simply not true. No, Energy and Commerce--
COLLINS: So, where are you cutting from within that committee?
JOHNSON: Energy and Commerce's jurisdiction would take us 20 pages to go through, Kaitlan. It's, they've got almost everything in the U.S. economy.
COLLINS: Right. I'm talking about the biggest pools.
JOHNSON: They're large pools in the health care components, but that's -- we're not going to cut benefits for people who rightfully deserve it. And watch this play out. Just reserve your judgment.
The White House has said, We're not going to do that. The House Republicans have said, We're not going to do that. And Senator Kennedy said, Hell no. OK? So you heard it from the Senate, the House and the White House. So let's let this play out. We have a long football game to play. Last night was the kickoff of the game. So just watch it play out, and you'll see.
I think the American people are going to benefit greatly by the package that we're going to produce for them. We are going to deliver the America First agenda, and it's going to be good for everybody. We're going to spur economic growth. We're going to cut regulations. We're going to cut the Deep State and their bureaucracy--
COLLINS: Yes.
JOHNSON: --to make government more efficient. We're going to secure the border. We're going to get energy dominance back again, for our country, that is long overdue. And we're going to spur on the U.S. economy.
And by the way, Kaitlan, the big drive of all this is to ensure we don't have the largest tax increase in U.S. history at the end of this year, which is what will happen if we don't get this bill passed.
COLLINS: Well, and Speaker, I do--
JOHNSON: I mean, the average U.S. taxpayer's going to have a 22 percent tax hike.
COLLINS: Mr. Speaker--
JOHNSON: Yes.
COLLINS: --I do appreciate a good -- a good football reference.
But you just mentioned work requirements, and maybe changing that. Will you reduce the federal match, or try to establish a cap on federal funding, as you sort through this for Medicaid?
JOHNSON: No. I just explained. Per capita caps is off the table. The FMAPs, we're not -- we're not going to cut into this programs that way. What we are going to do is present this large tax increase.
You realize, if we don't pass this bill, small businesses, 26 million businesses in this country, their tax rates are going to go up to 43 percent, overnight, if we don't get this bill passed. So, we have no margin for error. We have to get this done, and we will. We're going to deliver on this mission for the American people.
COLLINS: Yes, I was just asking because, as you know, your home state of Louisiana, about 80 percent of the Medicaid spending there is covered by the federal government. We've seen it in a lot of red states, of course, across the United States. It's not just a blue- state issue.
As you have seen through this, and we've seen the blowback that some Republicans in your caucus are getting, when they go back home to their districts, worried about these cuts, or worried about what DOGE is doing. Do you have concerns that that's anything that Democrats will be able to use to run against those Republicans--
JOHNSON: No, because the--
COLLINS: --in the midterms.
JOHNSON: No, I don't. Because the videos you saw of the town halls were for paid protesters in many of those places. These are Democrats who went to the events early, and filled up the seats. If you had -- if the videos had panned outside the building--
COLLINS: You can't argue they were all paid protesters, though, Mr. Speaker.
JOHNSON: Many of them were. I don't know, we--
COLLINS: One of your -- a Republican acknowledged--
JOHNSON: Yes.
COLLINS: --they were his constituents.
JOHNSON: One Republican acknowledged they were his constituents. That's fantastic, OK.
But they had Democrats come and fill the seats early, all right? This is an old playbook that they pulled out and ran, and it made it look like that what is happening in Washington is unpopular.
But I'm going to tell you, Kaitlan, the American people are behind what's happening. The DOGE efforts is polling over 80 percent, right now. They want us to find efficiencies in the federal government. They want the government to be smaller and leaner and more accountable to the taxpayers.
And that's what these efforts are all about. That's what the Republican Party is about. That's what our commitment is to do. To make government work better for the people. This is a restoration of commonsense above everything else, and I think the American people are going to remain in favor of what's happening here.
COLLINS: OK. I was just -- those lawmakers do also represent Democrats. That doesn't mean they were paid to show up, if they're upset about this.
But I want to move on, because just to get on what you're trying to do overall here. I know you're used to difficult tasks. You've had a small majority. You survived a threat to your speakership.
But a question that a lot of people have is, how you are going to balance the budget without touching Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid, while also increasing defense spending, which is what the White House laid out today.
JOHNSON: Yes, well, look, part of the equation is all the new revenue that President Trump and the administration are delivering for the American people.
Look, the tariffs are estimated -- just the tariff on China, the 10 percent import tax on China, and of course, they've been fleecing us for a long time as an unfair trade partner, that alone is going to yield $600 billion, over 10 years, in new revenue to the government.
The DOGE savings. Elon Musk has said that he can find close to a trillion dollars in fraud, waste and abuse. I was with him, late last night, in his office, going through what he's doing. This is very real. We're going to have new revenue and savings that we have never had before.
The gold card that President Trump announced yesterday. I mean, that could bring in -- that could bring in hundreds of billions of dollars. [21:30:00]
So, we'll see how all this plays out over the months ahead, as the budget and the spending habits of Washington change, and the efficiency of Washington changes. I think the American people are going to like what they see.
COLLINS: Yes, of course--
JOHNSON: And you got to wait and see how this balances out.
COLLINS: And we will. None of that's guaranteed. We'll see what those numbers look like.
Did Elon Musk approve of the blueprint that you passed, last night? Did he think there were enough spending cuts in there?
JOHNSON: Well, we haven't gotten to that yet. These are numbers, a floor, at least $1.5 trillion in savings that we're going to find, and trying to get higher, maybe $2 trillion or higher.
COLLINS: OK.
JOHNSON: It's a start. Look, you don't turn an aircraft carrier on a dime. It takes miles of open ocean to turn an aircraft carrier. That's what the U.S. economy is. It took decades to get into this situation. But we are going to begin to bend that curve.
COLLINS: Yes.
JOHNSON: And it's a great thing for the country.
COLLINS: I was just curious since you met with him after -- after this happened.
Speaking of deadlines that are a lot sooner than what you're talking about. There's a shutdown deadline that is looming on March 14th, which you well know. Do you think Congress is going to end up passing another continuing resolution then?
JOHNSON: Well, look, I wish we didn't have to. But it looks like the Democrats are trying to push us into that. They have added these really crazy conditions onto the negotiation, over the last week or so.
They've added a condition that says we have to tie the hands of President Trump, that the legislative branch would -- they want us to dictate to the executive branch, for example, a base number of employees for each agency in the executive branch. I don't even think it's constitutional what they're requiring. But it's certainly an absurd notion.
COLLINS: How long would that--
JOHNSON: But they're standing by that. So--
COLLINS: --CR go, do you believe?
JOHNSON: If -- well, we haven't negotiated that yet. But if it's a CR, it may be an entire year-long CR with some anomalies on it. You know how all this works. But it's not what we prefer.
We would like to do individual appropriations bills. But it takes both parties to negotiate that. And right now, the Democrats are trying to, it looks like, trying to set up a government shutdown. We can't allow that to happen, and we won't.
COLLINS: Well, you just talked about how important the work that Elon Musk is doing is. If you pass a continuing resolution, won't that just refund all the programs that he says he's cutting that are full of waste, fraud and abuse?
JOHNSON: No, look, you can -- that's why I say you add anomalies to a CR. You can increase some spending, you can decrease some spending. You can add language that says, for example, the dramatic changes that have been made to USAID would be reflected in the ongoing spending.
It would be a clean CR, mostly, I think, but with some of those changes to adapt to the new realities here. And the new reality is less government, more efficiency, better return for the taxpayers. And I think that's something everybody should welcome.
COLLINS: OK. A clean CR, mostly, you think. We will be watching closely on that.
Speaker Mike Johnson, as always, thank you for your time tonight.
JOHNSON: Thanks, Kaitlan. Good to see you.
COLLINS: We have reaction up ahead to what we just heard from Speaker Johnson there. Our political insiders are here.
Plus, that AI-generated video that President Trump shared, what a takeover of Gaza could look like, including a golden statue of Donald Trump.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Moments ago, I spoke with House Speaker, Mike Johnson, echoing President Trump, on what Republicans are going to do with their budget plan, and whether or not it will include cuts to programs like Medicaid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: We're not going to cut benefits for people who rightfully deserve it. And watch this play out. Just reserve your judgment.
The White House has said, We're not going to do that. The House Republicans have said, We're not going to do that. And Senator Kennedy said, Hell no. OK? So you heard it from the Senate, the House and the White House. So let's let this play out. We have a long football game to play.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I'm joined by Kevin Madden, former campaign adviser to Mitt Romney.
And Alex Thompson, Axios' National Political Correspondent, and the Co-author, alongside CNN's Jake Tapper, of the new, upcoming book, "Original Sin." Can't wait to read that.
On Mike Johnson saying -- you know, Speaker Johnson says, Just wait and let this play out. Obviously, Democrats are not doing that, and he was trying to blunt that criticism.
But there is a real question of how they are going to get what they laid out, last night, and what it's going to look like by the time it leaves the Senate?
KEVIN MADDEN, ADVISER, MITT ROMNEY'S 2008 & 2012 CAMPAIGNS: Yes, first of all, look, great interview. We're going to have a lot to talk about on that for probably a couple weeks to come.
But yes, I think, like, he's very confident, he's very optimistic that they're going to be able to get something done. But I also think, that is coupled by the fact that I think he just knows how just daunting this task is going to be.
I think one of the things they're going to have to do is get very aggressive in how they interpret the growth side, what kind of receipts they're going to be able to get from the tax cuts, what kind of receipts they're going to be able to get from the economic growth, in order to really balance some of the pressures that they're going to have.
This is a party that is now a working-class party. They can't cut Medicaid. And you hear -- you hear Speaker Johnson saying it. They're going to be taking the White House's lead on that. There is no way you're going to be able to able to send something to President Trump's desk for a signature that includes cuts to benefits.
So, the task is very large before him. And he's probably most right on the fact that this is only beginning, because this is going to be a--
COLLINS: Yes.
MADDEN: --very, very long, arduous process.
COLLINS: And he predicted no big changes from the Senate. I think that remains to be seen, based on what we're hearing from the Senate.
But just to drive home what Trump is saying, since he will be the one who ultimately closes this deal.
ALEX THOMPSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
COLLINS: He is worried about having or -- he says he's not going to have a George H. W. Bush moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This will not be "read my lips." It won't be "read my lips" anymore: We're not going to touch it.
Now, we are going to look for fraud. I'm sure you're OK with that, like people that shouldn't be on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
THOMPSON: Yes, when you even saw Mike Johnson say, We're not going to cut benefits for people that are, quote, "Rightly deserve" it, right? Well, what does that include, right? I mean, you can say broadly terms, but like, Maybe there will be cuts to some benefits.
I also say Republicans are a bit confused about what Trump actually wants, and -- as in terms of prioritizing his legislative agenda. And you see this going back and forth.
Mike Johnson made very clear, he kept talking about bill, singular.
[21:40:00]
Whereas all the Senate keeps talking about, bills, plural, because they want to get done a defense and immigration package, very quickly, and then move to the tax cuts.
Mike Johnson is like, We should put this all in one big package.
But what happens if you don't have a big, huge bill for Trump to sign in the first 10 months? What happens if it gets to October, and Trump does not have a big bill to sign? That is still a huge issue.
And the thing is that Trump keeps going back and forth, and Republicans don't quite know where he stands.
COLLINS: He wants something. It's not necessarily clear the path.
But I think just to underscore what is on the White House's mind about this is the time. The time is sensitive, and they want their first thing, whether it does take several months to work, and to land. And I think that is what they ultimately care about the most at the White House.
MADDEN: Yes, I don't think they care a whole lot -- and I know -- we all know Trump doesn't really have much respect for congressional protocols or process. He just -- you're right. I mean, he's trying to program the next hour of news, and he wants the next headline, he wants the next win. But I think they're going to have to be disappointed on this. It's going to take a very long time up there.
It's going to be very difficult, especially when we get to the summer time, people start going home, and they start hearing. We know that the Democrats are going to try and drive a wedge between Trump and the congressional Republicans. And when they get back to the summer town hall season, there's going to be a lot of pressure.
So, it's, look, this is going to be a very -- we're going to be very, very busy here, every single night, talking about this, all the way until December.
COLLINS: Well, good, at least we'll be -- have a lot to talk about.
MADDEN: Yes.
COLLINS: Kevin Madden. Alex Thompson. Great to have you both.
Congrats on the new book. Can't wait to read that. Everyone, go pre- order it.
Up next. We're going to get back to that big Cabinet meeting that happened today, plus one. Elon Musk acknowledged that sometimes the fast-moving approach results in a mistake that he says has been fixed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: We won't be perfect. But when we make mistake, we'll fix it very quickly.
So, for example, with USAID.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Elon Musk comes from a world where move fast and break things is an ethos. But the consequences for that in Washington can sometimes be more far-reaching than maybe they are in Silicon Valley.
Take, for example, what he said in today's Cabinet meeting about mistakes that DOGE will and has made, including canceling an effort, temporarily, to prevent Ebola.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: We will make mistakes. We won't be perfect. But when we make mistake, we'll fix it very quickly.
So, for example, with USAID, one of the things we accidentally canceled, very briefly, was Ebola -- Ebola prevention. I think we all wanted Ebola prevention. So, we restored the Ebola prevention immediately, and there was no interruption.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Musk argued it was fixed quickly.
But current and former USAID officials are saying otherwise, this evening. One of them who served as a senior official, when Biden was in office, told The Washington Post, There have been no efforts to turn on anything in prevention of Ebola and other diseases. That same official said that her former USAID team that was working on disease response had been cut from about 60 people to about six.
This comes, of course, amid an Ebola outbreak that we are seeing in Uganda.
My source tonight is the veteran tech journalist, Kara Swisher.
And Kara, just -- and what you heard there on terms of fixing mistakes quickly when they happen, because mistakes do happen, do you believe that's how DOGE is operating, from your perspective?
KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "ON WITH KARA SWISHER" & "PIVOT," CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think they're operating in a sloppy way. You don't make mistakes with Ebola ever, like, I feel like that's one of the ones.
And he sort of had a little giggle right after, Ha-ha, you don't want Ebola.
Of course, you don't.
But I think a lot of it is disingenuous. They say they make mistakes and they fix them. And then when you check, they didn't actually fix them. So a lot of what he says has to be checked three or four times. And often, it's an overstatement of what's happened there, or else it didn't happen, as he said it was happening.
So, I don't know what to say. I don't think they're being -- I think they're being disingenuous with the American public.
COLLINS: Well, and we've also seen some of the biggest contracts or numbers that they've said that they saved the taxpayers that were on their website, kind of quietly disappear, as The New York Times did a--
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: --did a great report on, yesterday.
But just overall, what did you make of that dynamic inside the Cabinet room today?
SWISHER: It felt Stalinesque, I think that was the word I was thinking of.
You're happy with him, right? You're happy?
None of the -- a lot of those Cabinet members, I'm absolutely certain, are unhappy, and they couldn't say anything in a group, and they had to say they love Elon, because Trump was supporting him and sort of -- so, it was one of those kind of weird it felt -- it felt Stalinesque, like, You all like the person, right? And then everyone had to shake their head.
COLLINS: Yes, it was a notable moment.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: And I'm sure some of them do like him very much. Obviously, Elon Musk is pretty close to some of those Cabinet members.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: But obviously after--
SWISHER: Sure is.
COLLINS: --the debacle with the email, over the weekend.
Can I ask you about something else, though?
SWISHER: Sure.
COLLINS: Because Musk today praised Jeff Bezos. He's the Amazon founder, and also owns The Washington Post, for those who don't know. I think he said that the Opinions section at The Washington Post will publish stories that support free markets and personal liberties, but not opposing viewpoints.
What did you make of that--
SWISHER: No--
COLLINS: --that announcement?
SWISHER: Well, I think it's just he's -- shameless. I think Katharine Graham and Ben Bradlee are spinning in their graves right now.
The Post was about the First Amendment. It was about being a human. It was about accountability. And now, it's about praising Jeff Bezos' business interests. I don't even know what that means. I think it's, I want to do what I want to do, which is very typical.
And sort of Jeff Bezos is racing Elon Musk to become the favored person of Donald Trump. That's what it feels like. But he owns it, so he can do whatever he wants with it, even if he wants to drive it right into a wall, which is what he's done a very good job of doing, over the last year.
COLLINS: Do you believe it was just a business decision by Jeff Bezos?
SWISHER: Oh, I don't think he has any values at all. Again, I think he -- I think he's decided that he can use it as a cudgel in the way he wants to. And again, he owns it, so he can do whatever he wants with it.
[21:50:00]
But this nonsense about -- you know, in 2018, he said he would be embarrassed to meddle in The Washington Post, and that he would turn cherry red from embarrassment, My face would turn red.
Well, he should -- he probably looks like a Washington State cherry, right now, because what he said three or four years ago is not what he is doing today. And it's all in his business interests, absolutely.
COLLINS: I want to ask you about something else also, that Trump posted today. It was a bit bizarre. Some people, his supporters, thought it was funny. It's this AI-generated video to promote his new plan, essentially, of, Gaza.
SWISHER: Yes, it was very strange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO - PRESIDENT TRUMP SHARES BIZARRE AI-GENERATED VIDEO PROMOTING "TRUMP GAZA")
(MUSIC)
Donald's coming to set you free, bringing the life for all to see. No more tunnels, no more fear, Trump Gaza is finally here. Trump Gaza shining bright, golden future a brand new light.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Sorry, Kara, I just wanted to play a little bit of that for people who don't have a--
SWISHER: Right. Sure. Yes.
COLLINS: --a Truth Social account.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: But what was your take on that?
SWISHER: I don't like AI videos. And he's just trolling everybody. I think if we react to every stupid thing he posts, I mean, we'd be spending all our day reacting to it. I was intrigued by the belly dancers with beards. I just found that odd. The golden statue. Those things are very strange.
And I think what he tries to do is create distractions, so we're all horrified and pearl-clutching. I don't care. He can post any stupid meme he wants to, all day long.
COLLINS: Yes, the longer the video goes on, I mean, there's like a surprise around every corner.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: I won't reveal that all to everyone.
SWISHER: I got better things to do, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: But there is a shirtless foreign leader.
SWISHER: I got better things to do, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Kara Swisher, as always, great to have you. Thank you. SWISHER: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. On a serious note, as we are tracking this, a very serious situation that is unfolding in the United States. The first U.S. measles death in 10 years was announced today. That comes as we heard from President Trump's Health secretary, who is, of course, a known vaccine-skeptic. His reaction, and why it's standing out.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We have breaking news for you tonight, as the Chief Justice John Roberts said, the Supreme Court has now paused a federal judge's order for the Trump administration to unfreeze $2 billion in frozen foreign aid by midnight tonight, just a few hours from now. This is a goal that the argument had argued was unable to meet, that the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, is still personally reviewing that.
This emergency appeal, though, with Chief Justice John Roberts stepping in, marks the first time that we have seen Trump's efforts, to drastically remake the federal government, reach the nation's highest court. Of course, as we know, it may not be the last.
Another big story that we are covering here tonight is a school-age child in Texas has now died of measles, marking the first U.S. measles death in a decade, and the first U.S. measles death of a child in more than two decades.
Texas Health officials say that the kid was unvaccinated, and had been hospitalized, as the state is struggling to contain its worst measles outbreak in 30 years.
But the Health and Human Services Secretary, RFK Jr., downplayed it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We're watching it. We put out a post on it yesterday, and we're going to continue to follow it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President--
KENNEDY JR.: Incidentally, there have been four measles outbreaks this year in this country. Last year, there were 16. So, it's not unusual. We have measles outbreaks every year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source on this is CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner.
And first on what he said there. He said, This is not unusual. Is that accurate? DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, he's sort of -- he did what he typically does, which is to tape together bits and pieces of data to kind of misrepresent it. What he said was, Last year, for instance, there were 16 measles outbreaks in the -- in the United States, and we've had four already this year. Which is technically correct.
But the definition of an outbreak is a cluster of six or more patients. So, this particular outbreak in Texas alone has had a 124 people, and now -- and now a death. So, to conflate it with sort of several scattered outbreaks, last year, which equaled about 250 people, and we've already seen 125 people in just the first two months, is, I think, misrepresenting the data out.
But it was a -- it was a missed opportunity. Mr. Kennedy had an opportunity to show some leadership, to break away from the stereotype of being a vaxx-skeptic, conspiracy theorist. And basically, to tell the public, Sure. We're concerned about this. We take this very seriously. And if you're unvaccinated in Texas, or in fact, if you're unvaccinated anywhere in the United States, we urge you to go ahead and get the measles vaccine.
But he just can't do that.
COLLINS: Well, he also talked about the people who are hospitalized right now. He said that they're just being quarantined.
That was refuted by a Texas health official, who said they don't quarantine people. If they're in the hospital, it's because they are symptomatic.
REINER: Yes, that's right. And it turns out that about one in five people, who get measles, will require hospitalization. It's a serious illness.
It's been -- it's been mis-portrayed in the public as basically a bad rash when -- when the truth of the matter is that, prior to the development of the vaccine, in 1963, tens of thousands of people were hospitalized in the United States. Would kill about 500 people a year. About a 1,000 kids would get encephalitis, which would leave them, if they survive, with permanent neurologic deficits. It's not a disease to be trifled with.
And now we see, sadly, a child has died in Texas, of measles, a completely preventable, 98 percent preventable disease.
COLLINS: Did it concern you that they also -- he also got the number wrong of children? I mean, it's one child who has died. That's a huge headline, given that hasn't happened in 20 years.
REINER: Well, you think this would be a priority.
And what Mr. Kennedy has said is that in his tenure, he wants to basically promote prevention. He wants to bring HHS into prevention.
[22:00:00] But what speaks more to prevention than vaccines? You would think he would get the data right.
COLLINS: Dr. Reiner, great to have you, as always, for your expertise.
REINER: Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: Thank you for bringing us the facts here. Appreciate you joining us.
Thank you all so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
