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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Sources: Bongino Considers Resigning Amid Epstein Files Fallout; Trump: Only "Evil Person" Would Question Texas Flood Alerts; Trump "Disappointed" In Russia, Teases Major Announcement. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 11, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BOB GELDOF, CO-FOUNDER, BAND AID TRUST: No, dude. Empathy is the glue of humanity. We cannot exist in isolation. We cannot. Literally, we died. We require the function of society. That's what we need. He's wrong in every case.
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That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. Have a great weekend. I'll see you, Monday.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Tonight, the MAGA backlash, over the Epstein files, is exploding, as our latest reporting on the FBI's second-in-command threatening to quit after a blowup with the Attorney General.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, a private battle at the top echelons of the Trump administration has exploded in a very public way. Word of a West Wing blowup, allegations of planted stories, infighting, and now an ultimatum from the Deputy Director of the FBI.
Sources have confirmed that Dan Bongino is considering resigning from his job, after he got into a heated argument with Attorney General, Pam Bondi this week. At the center of that clash is the release of a memo that put to rest, or at least tried to put to rest, years of conspiracy theories about the death of Jeffrey Epstein, and an alleged secret client list.
It was essentially a case closed from the Trump administration, but it infuriated legions of MAGA supporters who had been promised by the very officials who put this memo out, that the so-called truth would finally be exposed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: How many of you are satisfied? You can -- you can clap. Satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation? Clap.
(AUDIENCE BOOING)
INGRAHAM: How many of you are not satisfied with the results of the investigation?
(AUDIENCE CLAPPING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The boos you heard there came from a gathering of young conservatives tonight.
And Dan Bongino was so angry about being confronted by Pam Bondi, that he did not go into work today.
Since becoming the Attorney General, Pam Bondi has fed longtime MAGA conspiracies that the convicted predator -- about the convicted predator, and promised to put out information that Dan Bongino himself, before entering federal government, had accused the government of hiding for years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN BONGINO, UNITED STATES DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: What the hell are they hiding with Jeffrey Epstein?
Why do they want to make this Jeffrey Epstein story go away so bad?
The Jeffrey Epstein case -- you do not know all the details of this thing. I promise. There are a lot of really obviously powerful people. This part, you know, but the specific names we may not.
I'm not letting it go, ever. Ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Despite what you heard there, the Justice Department released a short, unsigned memo, on a holiday weekend, that found no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered in his jail cell, and no evidence that he kept a so-called client list.
MAGA erupted, and within days, those frustrations reached the White House, and reached a boiling point in a particular White House meeting, where Dan Bongino and his boss, the FBI Director, Kash Patel, were confronted about whether or not they leaked this story to NewsNation, saying that the FBI actually wanted more information released, but was ultimately stymied by the Justice Department.
Sources say that Dan Bongino denied the accusation, though he notably did not sign on to a statement, in that article, defending the Justice Department's conclusions.
All of this came to a head today, when we saw right-wing provocateur, Laura Loomer, who holds significant sway with President Trump, especially when it comes to hirings, as we've seen play out. She wrote on social media, this morning, that Bongino and Patel were livid with Pam Bondi, and that Dan Bongino was taking the day off, and there's now speculation on whether or not he will return.
Our sources say tonight that Dan Bongino has not decided whether or not to quit. It's certainly possible he'll end up staying put. We'll see.
But Bongino has been quite open about the fact that he doesn't exactly love the job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONGINO: I gave up everything for this. I mean, you know, my wife is struggling, I mean -- I'm not a victim. I'm not Jim Comey. It's fine. I did this, and I'm proud I did it.
But if you think we're there for tea and crumpets? Well, I mean, Kash is there all day. We share -- our offices are linked. He turns on the faucet, I hear it. He's there at -- he gets in like, 6 o'clock in the morning. He doesn't leave till 07:00 at night. You know, I'm in there at 07:30.
I stare at these four walls all day in D.C., you know, by myself, divorced from my wife -- not divorced, but I mean separated, divorced. And it's hard. I mean, you know, we love each other, and it's hard to be apart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, as all of this is playing out, we're seeing Laura Loomer squarely on the side of Dan Bongino, ending her post tonight with a call for the President to fire Pam Bondi, who she has taken to referring to as Pam Blondie.
[21:05:00]
Earlier this week, when the President was asked about the Jeffrey Epstein memo that came out from the Justice Department, he seemed ready to move on, whether or not his base did or not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy has been talked about for years. You're asking -- we have Texas. We have this. We have all of the things with -- and are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I want to start this hour with CNN Justice Correspondent -- Senior Justice Correspondent, Evan Perez. And we've been reporting out this story together, all day.
And Evan, the question here is still whether or not that Bongino is actually going to resign. But I think what has stood out as we've been reporting this, with our colleagues, is just the fact that it got to this point, and how bad the relationship is between Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi now.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was in building for months, and that's one of the things that I found really remarkable.
Because we've heard some hints of this, behind-the-scenes, Kaitlan, over the last few months. In particular, because, you remember, back in February, when Bondi convened those social media influencers, from MAGA world, for that event, where they presented them with the binders with documents, which it turned out to be really old documents, from years ago that had been public for years, and the embarrassment that ensued behind that or after that.
And so, at the FBI, you remember, they spent weeks, where they had agents working overtime, overnights, weekends, to redact documents. And so, somewhere, probably by April, officials realized that a lot of the documents that were looked -- they were looking at were going to be blacked out by redactions, and that presented a real problem for them. And that's where you see the beginning of this fight, that sort of like has been brewing, and that broke up -- broke out into the open.
I think there has been some dissension, between the two sides -- between the FBI and the Justice Department. And this really just, I think, came to the fore, as a result of the reaction that you've been describing there, from the MAGA world, because they really are angry. They believe that these documents should be out, and I think Dan Bongino believes that they should be out. But for various reasons, they've all agreed that they probably cannot do that.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, it's a major rift that is playing out.
PEREZ: Yes.
COLLINS: And when I looked -- I went back and looked at the memo again today. I mean, it says Justice Department and FBI, right there at the top, in terms of who put this work out. No one signed it, notably, which stood out to a lot of the people who were mad.
PEREZ: Yes, absolutely.
COLLINS: But the attorney -- the Deputy Attorney General, who serves right underneath Pam Bondi today, Todd Blanche, is saying basically that they all signed off on this memo. He put that out quickly, after Laura Loomer was posting and reporting, earlier today, that this had caused a serious rift between them.
I mean, there are real questions about what this means, going forward.
PEREZ: Absolutely. And I think that, that post on social media, on X, by Todd Blanche, I think, is not only a pushback on Loomer, but it also was a -- was sort of a shot across the bow at Bongino, and anyone else who is going to keep pushing this. Because Blanche is right, that, by Monday, when this memo is issued, or Sunday -- Sunday night, when it first leaks, everybody on board -- everybody was on board. He is right that Bongino and Patel all had decided, by this point, OK, this is the only way to go forward.
And so, if this keeps going -- going forward, and if Bongino keeps pushing this idea that he was not on board? Certainly, I think Blanche and the Justice Department officials have proof to prove that everybody was on board.
Now, that doesn't cover up the fact that behind-the-scenes, there has been some disagreement about this, and about the handling of this, and particularly their dissatisfaction with the idea that, certainly, some of what Bondi did, early on, could have been avoided, and really built up the expectations that now you see playing out. You see, certainly that reaction that happened there at that event, in Tampa, is exactly what's going to keep happening.
And by the way, you and I have noticed this over the last few weeks, where every time -- these people all exist very much on social media. Every time they post on social media, Kash, and Bongino, and Bondi, every time they post? They get ratioed. They get a reaction saying, Yes, yes, yes nice job, but where are the Epstein files? That has been happening for weeks and weeks. And so, there's been certainly, I think, a lot of notice that this is how this was going to go.
COLLINS: Yes, I talked to one source who said, basically, they thought they'd be protected, because they were so firmly placed in the MAGA universe.
PEREZ: Yes.
COLLINS: But they're turning on them, as a result of this.
Evan Perez, great reporting, alongside our colleagues, tonight.
PEREZ: Thank you.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: I also want to bring in my congressional sources who are here. Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee, and Democratic Congressman Ritchie Torres of New York, on this matter.
And Congressman Burchett, I do wonder if you, as someone who is also in this universe, do you think that these officials have anyone to blame but themselves, given they raised the expectations for the supporters of President Trump's, for what this was going to look like?
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): No, I don't. I think Pam Bondi was clearly out over her skis. She came out with that memo, and -- or not the memo, but had the -- you know, everybody walked out of her office with those white folders that were supposed to disclose all this stuff. And it was honestly probably stuff that, you and I, and my colleague there, talked about weeks before, so. And I guess I should disclose that Dan Bongino is a personal friend of mine. Actually, when I was leaving the Oval Office, last week, he was standing out there, getting ready to walk in, and I -- and he hollered at me, and we had a nice conversation. So I need to disclose that. But I'm a Dan Bongino fan.
COLLINS: Have you talked to him? And do you think he's going to ultimately resign here?
BURCHETT: I wouldn't disclose any private conversations that I've had with Dan. But I don't know what he's going to do.
If we lose Dan, though. He's a real patriot. He loves his country. He wants to do what's best. I mean, he was willing to give his life for this country. He protected, let's say, I believe, he protected President Obama and maybe Ms. Clinton at one time. So he -- I find him to be a very patriotic American-loving individual.
COLLINS: Congressman Torres, I just wonder how Democrats are watching all this play out. Because, sometimes, when there's arguments, or things playing out, the White House can criticize your party, or the media, at times. But I mean, this is something that is squarely coming from their MAGA base here.
REP. RITCHIE TORRES (D-NY): A wise person once said, When a clown enters the palace, the clown does not become a king. The palace becomes a circus. And so, we're seeing a confirmation that the Trump presidency is nothing more than a glorified circus, staffed not by actual government professionals, but by clowns, by television personalities.
And Donald Trump, and his acolytes, have spent their political career, fanning the flames of conspiratorial politics, and now it's coming back to haunt them. Kash Patel and Dan Bongino falsely accused the Biden administration of quote-unquote, a coverup of the Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy.
But for me, the worst offender is Pam Bondi, who, as Attorney General, said that the Epstein client list was on her desk, waiting for review. And that turned out to be a lie. And so, the Trump administration has no one and nothing to blame but itself, for fanning the flames of conspiratorial politics.
COLLINS: Congressman Burchett, how do you respond to that?
BURCHETT: Well, yes, when you go to personal attacks, that just shows you where you're at.
The Biden administration was full of corruption. We all know that. The intelligence agency rushed to defend the President's son with his computer. They say, it was Russian disinformation, and then that was proven -- disproven. And the money that flowed through that family, you can say all you want to, about it.
But this -- this administration is very successful, and Democrats don't like it that-- COLLINS: But what does that have to do with Jeffrey Epstein?
BURCHETT: --they've shut the -- they've shut the border down. They've kept their word on everything.
It's kind of ironic to me that the Democrats are upset. They're saying, He didn't do what he said he was going to do.
Well, if he didn't do what he said he's going to do, shouldn't y'all be for him now, since that's what you ran against, was everything that he did? And so, if he did the exact opposite? I mean, it just doesn't figure.
Yes, everybody's upset about this Epstein thing, and I'm sure Trump is too. But I don't think Trump's on that list, because I think if he was -- if there is, in fact, a list. But I've studied criminal and -- criminal behavior for a very long time. And they rarely keep a list of the criminals that they do business with. But I suspect, what you'll find eventually is going to be those--
COLLINS: Yes.
BURCHETT: --those flight logs. And the flight logs don't show anything other than people flown with him--
COLLINS: But Congressman--
BURCHETT: --on his plane, so--
COLLINS: Congressman Burchett, can I ask you?
BURCHETT: Go ahead. I'm sorry.
COLLINS: Can I just -- can I just interrupt you to ask? Because what I was surprised by actually was, on Tuesday, we were -- I was inside the room, during the Cabinet meeting. And when a reporter asked the President about this, and asked Pam Bondi a question about this, Trump kind of exploded and said, Are you really still talking about that? Why are you talking about this creep, referring to Jeffrey Epstein.
I mean, given the level of anger from the actual MAGA base, do you think he's just not being told how they actually feel about this? Or what was your read on that?
BURCHETT: I think he monitors it pretty well.
[21:15:00]
I think he's been pretty focused and pretty upset, as I had been, and a lot of people in this country are, about what's going on in Texas, and going on around the world. So, I don't know that -- that's his priority list right now. I do know that, that he is focused, laser- focused on the economy, and other things like that. And that was, I guess, he assumed that's what the questions would be.
So, again, everybody's frustrated about this. But I think most people are just frustrated with Pam Bondi making the statements, like my colleague mentioned earlier, and releasing things that had already been released. So yes, there's a lot of frustration out there. But it's across the board. And--
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: But--
COLLINS: Congressman Torres--
BURCHETT: --is all the Democrats have.
TORRES: Can we be -- can we be clear though?
BURCHETT: Go ahead. I'm sorry.
TORRES: Can we be -- can we be clear that the Epstein controversy is a distraction of Donald Trump's own making, that he was fanning the flames of the Epstein conspiracy theory, during the campaign? And so now he's -- you know, he's essentially an arsonist pretending to be a firefighter.
And there was no need for an investigation. The medical examiner had investigated the matter, and found that Epstein died by suicide. The same conclusions were drawn by the Bureau of federal prisons. There was no need for a new investigation, unless the purpose was to legitimize a conspiracy theory.
But instead of legitimizing a conspiracy theory, the Trump administration has delegitimized itself, in the eyes of its own MAGA base.
COLLINS: Well, and Congressman Burchett, can I ask you?
BURCHETT: So--
COLLINS: Because, you defended Dan Bongino. You said he's a friend of yours, and you talked about his time in the Secret Service.
The Deputy Director at the FBI is an incredibly serious job, and they do a lot of the work, running that department, as we've spoken to past FBI -- deputy FBI directors about this.
Is it OK with you if he just doesn't go to work, because he and Pam Bondi are in a fight about the Epstein files?
BURCHETT: I can remember, during the Biden administration, you had the man who was over our military didn't show up for work and--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Yes, but this is about, right now, what's happening with the President you voted for.
BURCHETT: And I don't remember -- and I don't remember CNN -- I don't remember CNN raising a ruckus, or the Democrats. But yes, I mean, he's not -- he's--
COLLINS: We did cover Secretary Austin's hospitalization, but--
BURCHETT: He's never away from his -- he's never away from his phone. He's never away from his computer. And just because he's not in the office does not mean he's working. Honestly, I do more work when I'm out of Washington, D.C., than I do when I'm in Washington, D.C.
And I don't -- I don't see any real correlation that it's -- it's symbolic, at best. But it just shows his frustration, and I think the frustration of the rest of the country right now.
COLLINS: Congressman Burchett. Congressman Ritchie Torres. Great to have you both here tonight. Thank you.
Up next. President Trump, and how he is viewing all of this, and what's happening inside the MAGA base. It is leading some of them to start lashing out at the President himself, as just happened tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 2016, we trusted the plan with Trump. But now Trump has become the deep state. The exact thing he -- we voted him in to give--
STEVE BANNON, EXECUTIVE AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Why do you say -- why do you say -- why do you say, he's become the deep state?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is more deep state than covering up for pedophiles? Why would you go to that island?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the furious rumble that was building inside the MAGA world morphed into a full-blown earthquake tonight, and that fury has been directed at the very people that they trusted, the people who promised they'd expose a secret Jeffrey Epstein coverup and release his alleged client list.
But when those same people turned around this week and said, Actually, there's no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered, and there is no client list? A lot of MAGA loyalists were incensed, and now they're downright livid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BANNON: This is supposed to be about the most transparent administration ever.
TUCKER CARLSON, AMERICAN COMMENTATOR AND HOST: It's like a joke. But worse than that, it's a joke that we all get, like they're not fooling anybody. So, I feel like we're at a dangerous point.
LIZ WHEELER, HOST, "THE LIZ WHEELER SHOW": What on earth is going on? Was Pam Bondi set up by deep state FBI career officials?
JACK POSOBIEC, AMERICAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: We were told was new information on Epstein. It wasn't. We were told that more information was coming. There wasn't. You claimed that you had the list on your desk. You didn't. And none of it came out.
LAURA LOOMER, AMERICAN FAR-RIGHT POLITICAL ACTIVIST, CONSPIRACY THEORIST, AND INTERNET PERSONALITY: I mean, look, at the end of the day, we were promised one thing, and we have not received that promise.
ALEX JONES, AMERICAN RADIO HOST: I'm physically going to -- going to puke probably right now.
For them to do something like this tears my guts out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My sources tonight are CNN's Harry Enten, and Brian Stelter.
That last clip--
(CROSSTALK)
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: And not in the car. We actually showed up in-person. We drove all the way here.
COLLINS: OK. Alex Jones aside. Harry, I mean, I think that sampling makes clear, a lot of people are upset. But just how widespread is this outrage?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: I would say it's huge. And one way you can absolutely tell it, is through the Google searches for Epstein, over the last week. What are we seeing? We are seeing that searches are up 1,200 percent, from last week.
It is the number one topic that is being searched, alongside Donald Trump's name at this particular point. So, Donald Trump may want this story to go away, but it's not going away. It's getting bigger and bigger.
And to make some comparisons of how big it is, you know, I think two of the other big stories this week were Grok, of course, going off on its antisemitic rampage, as well as tariffs this week. And guess what? The story around Jeffrey Epstein, more -- far more people are searching for Epstein than they're searching for either Grok or for tariffs.
So, this is a story that is definitely staying in the mainstream, at this point, and today has obviously been supercharged with the latest news coming out between the fight within the administration.
COLLINS: Well, and I was in the Cabinet Room, on Tuesday. The President was pretty dismissive, when he was asked about this. And I talked to White House officials who thought that would help it just go away, that people would just fall in line with what the President was saying.
STELTER: Right.
COLLINS: But listen to what Trump said.
And then listen to what Tucker Carlson said tonight at a gathering of conservatives in Florida.
[21:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy has been talked about for years. You're asking -- we have Texas. We have this. We have all of the things with -- and are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable.
CARLSON: It's not adequate to say anyone who asks them, is somehow desecrating the memory of little girls who died in Texas. They're not going to put up with that answer. I don't care who gives that answer. That is not acceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The who that gave that answer, of course, was the President.
STELTER: Right. The, They, that Dan Bongino used to rage about? Now he is the, They. Now, they are all the, They.
And President Trump, who came to power, on a birtherism lie, is now facing this lie, and is clearly uncomfortable about it.
Look, this whole Epstein thing, it's all predicated on a lie, or at least a really lazy assumption, about a massive, sweeping government plot, to abuse children at an industrial scale.
Because the questions about Epstein are not the narrow questions about what happened in the prison cell that night. That was addressed six years ago. What's really bubbling up online, and the reason why this is getting so much attention, is because of a conspiracy theory that is so wide-ranging, right, about Democratic elites abusing children, about the government covering it up.
That's actually what MAGA influencers are talking about. That's what they were being promised for years. That's what the likes of Dan Bongino were talking about, when they were saying, What are they hiding about Jeffrey Epstein?
I think, ultimately, we're talking about a promise that they're not able to deliver on, because it was always a lie, right? So, they're not able to come through on that promise. And that's why people, like Trump, are now in an awkward position.
ENTEN: I would just say, Donald Trump has swum in the waters of conspiracy theories since, well, for over -- over a decade now, right?
STELTER: Yes, yes.
ENTEN: We were talking about it before, right? Birtherism with Barack Obama. Then he goes on and wins the 2024 nomination, in large part, because many people in that MAGA base, that Republican base, believe that the 2020 election was stolen from him, even though there was no proof.
And now, those conspiracy theory wars that helped raise Trump up to the presidency may very well, or at least at this particular point, are dragging him back and drowning him a little bit.
COLLINS: And one thing I heard, when it came to the President's reaction was, maybe he wasn't aware of just how mad people in MAGA were. Because he watches Fox News primarily, a lot, and they weren't covering the fallout from it, early on in this week, is what I heard from officials, or from people outside who were saying, We want to get this message to him, he's just not necessarily seeing it.
STELTER: And that was true on Monday and Tuesday. It has changed since. And the coverage from right-wing media has dramatic -- on television that Trump consumes, has dramatically escalated. And now, there's a lot more of this conspiracy theory framing on TV.
And frankly, how do conspiracy theories start, right? They start with a vague government announcement, a fumbled response, a no-more- questions attitude, the way we've seen from the FBI and DOJ. In this case, a prison videotape that leaves more questions than answers. This is creating an environment for even more conspiracy theorizing.
And we all know how conspiracy theories work. They are self-sealing. Any evidence against the theory can be used as more evidence to inflate the theory. That's exactly what we're seeing happen hour by hour, right now.
COLLINS: And, typically, when something like this happens, the White House blames Democrats. They blame the media. Right now, they -- I was talking to officials. There's no one really for them to blame.
STELTER: Right.
COLLINS: There's no really good answer for them to put out there.
ENTEN: It's so interesting to me, Steve Bannon and Elon Musk have gone against each other many times, and while within this particular one, they each are picking at each other. But they do unite on the idea that there're questions that still need to be answered here. He is -- this whole thing has managed to unite parts of the far-right that traditionally, at least over the past six months, have been against each other.
STELTER: And this is all downstream from something that we all feel in America. A complete and utter loss of trust, a lack of trust, a lack of belief in any institution. If you believe in this secret worldwide pedophile ring? You have so fully given up, not just on Trump, or one administration, or one party, but on society as a whole. And I think a lot of this anger and outrage we're seeing online, it's downstream of that loss of trust in America.
COLLINS: Yes, and of course, Trump supporters have the utmost trust in him, regardless of what he says.
STELTER: In Trump, yes. Yes, sure.
COLLINS: We'll see how this continues to go.
Brian Stelter. Harry Enten. Great to have you both.
Up next. We're going to go check in, live on the ground in Texas, with the flood disaster there. There's new reporting about what could have actually been done to warn residents, but wasn't done.
This is the President, was on the ground today, visiting the grieving community, when he was asked a question that prompted this response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Only a bad person would ask a question like that, to be honest with you. I don't know who you are. But only a very evil person would ask a question like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the scrutiny is continuing to build over how Texas officials responded as catastrophic flashfloods hit Kerr County, a week ago today.
The Washington Post is reporting, this evening, that county officials, quote, "Had the technology to turn every cellphone in the river valley into a blaring alarm but local officials did not do so before or during the early morning hours of July 4."
CNN reached out to FEMA to ask if anyone in the county had activated this mass notification system, and who in Kerr County has the ability to issue those alerts. We haven't heard back yet.
But we did see President Trump there, on the ground today, defending the local response, as this search for at least a 160 people is now going into its second week.
[21:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Several families we've heard from are obviously upset, because they say that those warnings, those alerts, didn't go out in time. And they also say that people could have been saved.
What do you say to those families?
TRUMP: Well, I think everyone did an incredible job under the circumstances. This was, I guess, Kristi said, a one in 500 -- one in a 1,000 years. And I just have admiration for the job that everybody did. There's just admiration.
The -- only a bad person would ask a question like that, to be honest with you. I don't know who you are. But only a very evil person would ask a question like that.
I think this has been heroism. This has been incredible, really, the job you've all done. It's easy to sit back and say, Oh, what could have happened here, there, you know? Maybe we could have done something differently. This was a thing that says, Never happened before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I want to bring in my White House insiders.
Shelby Talcott of Semafor.
And Tamara Keith of NPR.
And Shelby, The Washington Post reporting that I mentioned is just one instance, a stunning one, if it's accurate, in which officials may have fallen short, may have had the ability to warn people, and did not do so for unknown reasons.
But I wonder what stood out to you, from what you heard, from the White House today, as there still are a lot of questions about those.
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Right. I think the most notable thing is the fact that Donald Trump is really defending all of this, and he's defending sort of the local officials' response, as they are under real scrutiny. And that's notable to me, because he hasn't necessarily done the same, when it comes to other disasters. Of course, I'm thinking of the California wildfires, right?
He has been historically quick to criticize local efforts on the ground. And, in this case, when there is real scrutiny, and when there's questions about steps that were taken to warn people, he's really standing by the Governor, and the local officials, in this instance.
COLLINS: Yes, and of course, he has a close relationship with the Governor, who was there with him.
And Tamara. The question here has also been about the federal response mixed with the state response. We've been hearing, long before this, about this desire to change FEMA, to wean states off of it, as the President puts it, to eliminate FEMA, as the Department of Homeland Security Secretary puts it.
I want to just listen to what Noem had to say about this, after what happened in Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: FEMA has deployed multiple emergency response units, and FEMA has been really headed by some very good people. We have some good people running FEMA. It's about time, right?
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We've had over 700 different FEMA employees and volunteers here as well--
TRUMP: Right.
NOEM: --that are engaged. And so, all of your assets that you have, as a federal government, are deployed to help this community restore, but also to heal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What are you hearing, Tamara, about what this is going to -- what they're hoping this is going to look like?
TAMARA KEITH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Yes, I think we're not getting a lot of clarity, right now, about exactly what they want the path for FEMA to be.
When White House officials are asked about it, the answer is, sort of this mishmash of, Federal assistance will be there, with states, and states stepping up. And it's just, at this point, not entirely clear how they envision this working.
But clearly, people want their government to work when there's a disaster. And when there is a disaster, FEMA gets blamed, almost immediately. And so, people are venting frustration with the response with FEMA. Being in a disaster is frustrating, and it's hard to get what you need. And so, people are venting that frustration.
COLLINS: Well, and part of that may have to do with -- I mean, listen to this reporting from The New York Times that just came out tonight.
They say that FEMA did not answer nearly two-thirds of the calls that came into its disaster assistance line. That would amount to thousands of calls, according to The Times. And they were told by a source, it's because the agency had to fire hundreds of contractors, at call centers, because their contracts expired July 5th, on Saturday, that many of those weren't renewed until yesterday.
Do you think that is a question, Shelby, of what the White House has to say about this, and if they're willing to answer the questions on the specifics of what the federal responses looked like?
TALCOTT: Absolutely. And right now, the answer is they don't seem to be willing to answer those kinds of questions.
But it is notable that over the past six months, really, since Donald Trump has taken office, there's been confusion over what exactly the administration wants FEMA to be. We've heard Donald Trump say that he wants it to go away. We've heard other officials use harsher language, and say that they want to get rid of it completely. And now, they're kind of stepping back and seem to want something different, and now, they're arguing they want an overhaul.
And so, I think all of that speaks to just the confusion, really, even inside the federal government, over what this agency should be doing, and what role it should be playing. And that results in things like this New York Times report.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Yes, and I should note the DHS, Tamara, responded. They said, When a natural disaster strikes, phone calls surge, and wait times can subsequently increase. Despite this expected influx, FEMA's disaster call center responded to every caller swiftly and efficiently, ensuring that no one was left without assistance.
KEITH: Yes, what they--
TALCOTT: I mean--
KEITH: --what they seem to be saying between the lines is--
TALCOTT: It's ultimately a question, right?
COLLINS: Go ahead, Tamara.
TALCOTT: Sorry.
KEITH: Yes, I mean, I think what they're saying, if you read between the lines there, is that people got called back. But the reporting coming from The New York Times is significant, that calls weren't answered because contracts lapsed.
There's other reporting that I have not personally been able to confirm, but that additionally, search and response crews were getting ready, but they couldn't actually be deployed until there was sign-off from the head of DHS, so they're -- from Kristi Noem.
COLLINS: Yes.
Tamara Keith. Shelby Talcott. Great to have you both here tonight. Thank you for bringing your inside reporting.
Up next here for us. President Trump is teasing a major announcement, on Monday, when it comes to Russia. It comes after the tough language we've seen from him, on Putin, something that he doesn't normally say. My next source used to brief him on all things Putin. We'll speak to her, ahead.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump is teasing a major statement, on Monday, as Russia has continued to escalate its attacks on Ukraine.
The President told reporters, at the White House today, as he was leaving, that Russia's overnight drone assault on Ukraine's second largest city, which hit a maternity ward, I should note, did not go unnoticed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Russian drones hit a maternity hospital in Ukraine overnight, your reaction?
TRUMP: I know. You'll be -- you'll be seeing things happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That comes, after the President made clear this week, that he was fed up with, as he put it, Putin's BS.
And he told NBC News that he struck a deal to send American weapons to Ukraine through NATO, saying, quote, "We're sending weapons to NATO, and NATO is paying for those weapons, a 100 percent. We're going to be sending Patriots to NATO, and then NATO will distribute that."
The President repeated this, saying, quote, I'm "Disappointed" in Russia. What that disappointment actually translates to on the battlefield remains to be seen.
My source tonight is the former Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Beth Sanner.
And it's great to have you here, Beth.
Because there is a real question of what to look for on Monday. What are you going to be looking for?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I'm going to look for whether this is rhetoric with a little bit of promise, or whether there is something very concrete here.
And there are two sides to this coin. One is support for Ukraine. And the other is punishment of Russia, and efforts to really try to diminish their military capabilities. And so, maybe this will involve the Graham bill. Maybe it'll be something more immediate. We're all on pins and needles.
COLLINS: Well, and of course, it's a question of what we actually see, on Monday. Trump has given deadlines before, but it just seemed more immediate than others.
But the Graham bill that you're referencing, it's sanctions that the Senate wants to pass and have the President sign. They could have secondary sanctions, on people who aren't punishing Russia for its war in Ukraine.
I do think there's a question, when people hear about these sanctions that are on Russia, that they've been under for years now, if they actually make an impact--
SANNER: Yes.
COLLINS: --if there's anything left that can really still hurt them?
SANNER: Yes, and I'm glad you really brought up this bill, because it's very complicated. And it's important for people to understand how different this bill is.
So, there are traditional sanctions. And sanctions against the oil and gas sector have never been put on, as strongly as they could have, because of the concern for the global oil and gas market, and what that would mean for U.S. prices.
There are definitely things that can be done there. And there are things that can be done, in terms of sanctioning. For example, Chinese banks that are supporting the trade, all those semiconductors going in all those parts for drones.
But the other part of this bill is actually a new thing, secondary tariffs. Tariffs, not sanctions. So in other words, U.S. taxpayers would be involved in this part of the deal. And the deal says that if a country is buying oil-and-gas-related products from Russia, you would put on 500 percent tariffs on all of their goods coming into the United States. 500 percent.
We were at 145 percent against China. And that was so bad, Kaitlan, in terms of like blowing up the risk to our economy, that Trump had to hold that back.
COLLINS: Yes.
SANNER: So, it's so insane--
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point, and--
SANNER: --it's not going to work.
COLLINS: --and how you put it in perspective, of what that number -- what that number looks like, and what it means.
I do think there's a question of Trump, what he's saying publicly about Putin. And you've briefed the President on matters related to national intelligence overall. But on Russia, and on Putin, specifically, when you hear that, do you think that his change in stance, on him, is real?
[21:50:00]
SANNER: I do. I absolutely do. President Trump genuinely, really does abhor war, and he does get very upset with deaths relating to war. That's a real thing. He feels that. And I think he is genuinely disgusted at what he is seeing. But again, so let's -- you know, where the rubber meets the road here, on Monday.
COLLINS: Yes, what does that mean? Beth Sanner, always great to have you. Thank you so much.
SANNER: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next. I'm going to take you behind-the-scenes, this week, at the White House. There's a lot going on from the President's nearly two-hour Cabinet meeting, to more. That's right ahead.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: This week, here on THE SOURCE, we took you inside one of the President's Cabinet meetings that lasted nearly two hours.
That's not all that happened, though, during a very busy week, at the White House. Here's a look behind-the-scenes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, July 7.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I want to start by addressing the devastation from the tragic flashfloods in Texas. Everyone here at the White House, including the President of the United States, is praying for the victims' families and friends during this unimaginable time.
COLLINS: I'm standing here, outside the Blair House, where Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is inside. He's got several meetings with top advisers to President Trump.
Just a short walk away, they are protesting the Prime Minister's visit here to Washington.
One thing that we know is expected to be discussed is the end of the war in Gaza. That war has led to scenes, like what you are seeing out here, as people are calling for this war to end.
PETER NAVARRO, WH SENIOR COUNSELOR FOR TRADE AND MANUFACTURING: I'll come back here tomorrow and talk about the tariffs issue, because the letters are still coming out.
COLLINS: But you personally said, 90 deals in 90 days.
NAVARRO: 90 days and 90 deals--
COLLINS: And we're not even close to that.
NAVARRO: I'm very happy -- I'm very happy--
COLLINS: So what do you say to voters?
NAVARRO: I am very happy with where we're at.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, July 8. COLLINS: We're standing here, inside the White House press briefing room. We're moments away from going into the Cabinet meeting.
Apparently, the Cabinet meeting has already started, and we'll get in there after. It's already begun, and they've started going around the room.
Last week, the Pentagon paused some shipments of weapons to Ukraine. Did you approve of that pause?
TRUMP: We wanted to put defensive weapons, because Putin is not, he's not treating human beings right. He's killing too many people.
COLLINS: So, who ordered the pause, last week?
TRUMP: I don't know. What don't you tell me?
COLLINS: The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has just returned for a second round of talks.
What are you hearing in terms of where this stand, and if they actually feel like they're close to getting a ceasefire?
BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: They are close. President Trump is trying to find a way that ends the war, brings back the hostages, but doesn't create, for Netanyahu, a political disaster, back home.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, July 9.
COLLINS: It is Wednesday, July 9th, which was supposed to be the deadline day for President Trump's reciprocal tariffs to kick into place. But this week, we saw his top economic advisers moving that deadline to August 1st, as the President has continued to fire off a slew of letters, which he says amount to trade deals.
But it just gives you a window into how President Trump is approaching these trade negotiations, amid questions about whether that new August 1st deadline is actually going to stick.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, July 10.
COLLINS: Is the President having aides lay the groundwork to fire the Fed chair, Jay Powell, with the questions about the building renovations?
KEVIN HASSETT, WH NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL DIRECTOR: I'm sorry, I don't have comments today.
COLLINS: Jay Powell is in the White House's sights, once again. The President's Budget chief, Russ Vought, accusing him of potentially violating government rules. What it seems to be is another avenue that the White House is using to increase scrutiny on Jay Powell.
President Trump is preparing to leave the White House, on Friday, and head to Texas, where he will get a briefing on the devastation that was caused by those deadly, catastrophic floods. This comes as the administration has been pushing back on reporting, new rules that Secretary Kristi Noem had put in place slowed the FEMA response to those deadly floods in Texas.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Friday, July 11.
TRUMP: The first lady and I are here in Texas to express the love and support and the anguish of our entire nation. We mourn for every single life that was swept away in the flood, and we pray for the families.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: That was behind-the-scenes at the White House this week.
And before we go tonight, the new CNN Original Series, "Billionaire Boys Club" goes inside an exclusive investment club in the 1980s, where some ambitious young men's dreams of fortune, spiraled on to deception, fraud and even murder. Here's a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a huge fuss on the other side of the restaurant, and it was the guys from the BBC.
[22:00:00]
They were young. They were dressed in suits that looked like they came out of the pages of Vogue. They acted like $100 bills were napkins. It didn't matter the rich and famous of that. It was all about these guys. They really seemed to have it together. No one knew, at the time, about the dark underbelly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: You can watch the rest of "Billionaire Boys Club." It premieres this Sunday, at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
Thanks for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
