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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump: "I Don't Understand" Why Supporters Care About Epstein; Trump Downplays Inflation Jumping To Highest Level In Months; Soon: Polls Close In AZ Primary In Next Big Test For Dems. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 15, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --just outside Denver, opening statements at the trial of James Craig. He's the former dentist, accused of fatally poisoning his wife. Angela Craig died in 2023. And prosecutors say, her husband's motives were growing financial troubles, and his affair with another woman.
The defense raised questions about the evidence, and Ms. Craig's mental state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN BRACKLEY, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He went into that room to murder her. To deliberately and intentionally end her life with a fatal dose of cyanide.
ASHLEY WHITHAM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They never find any arsenic or cyanide.
Angela was a very broken person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: She also told the jury, You may not like him, you may not think he's a good husband, but that's not what you're here to decide.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. See you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, the story that President Trump was hoping would go away, just won't.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
24 hours ago, we reported here that President Trump was urging his team to let the Jeffrey Epstein story die down, with one official telling me flatly that they were ready for it to just go away. But tonight has done anything but.
The uproar coming from his own supporters is only growing, this evening, which the President said just a few moments ago, he doesn't understand. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't understand it, why they would be so interested in it. He's dead for a long time. He was never a big factor, in terms of life. I don't understand what the interest or what the fascination is. I really don't. And the credible information's been given.
Don't forget, we went through years of the Mueller witch hunt and all of the different things, the Steele dossier, which was all fake. All that information was fake.
But I don't understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody. It's pretty boring stuff. It's sordid, but it's boring. And I don't understand why it keeps going. I think, well, really only pretty bad people, including fake news, want to keep something like that going.
But credible information, let them give it. Anything that's credible, I would say, let them have it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President saying that only bad people want to keep this story going. But it's his own base that remains very much focused on it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW: The Jeffrey Epstein story isn't going anywhere.
CHARLIE KIRK, HOST, THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW: We're not moving on.
ALEX JONES, HOST, THE ALEX JONES SHOW: People want the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, facing those headwinds, the President was asked multiple times, throughout the day, about how his administration has been handling this whole situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The Attorney General's handled that very well. She is -- she's really done a very good job, and I think that when you look at it, you'll understand that.
But she's handled it very well, and it's going to be up to her. Whatever she thinks is credible, she should release.
COLLINS: Do you have confidence in Dan Bongino?
TRUMP: I like Dan Bongino.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: Less than an hour after the President said there that he was open to the Attorney General releasing more information, related to Jeffrey Epstein, that she deemed credible, CNN's Paula Reid asked Pam Bondi about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: He said that he would support you releasing additional credible evidence from the Epstein investigation. Is that something that you are open to doing?
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm not going to talk about Epstein.
Our memo speaks for itself. And we'll get back to you on anything else.
We're going to fight to keep America safe again, and we're fighting together as a team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President today, also, whose political career essentially began with a debunked conspiracy theory, then tried to offer a new one about who was truly to blame for the Epstein files.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would say that, you know, these files were made up by Comey, they were made up by Obama. They were made up by the Biden and from -- you know, and we went through years of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But Jeffrey Epstein, of course, was arrested, federally charged, and died in 2019, when Donald Trump was in office.
And it was Bill Barr, not any Democrat, who was the Attorney General at the time, who, at the time of Epstein's death, raised the possibility of irregularities, and also vowed to get answers about the facility where Epstein died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BARR, FORMER UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are now learning of serious irregularities at this facility that are deeply concerning, and demand a thorough investigation. The FBI and the Office of Inspector General are doing just that. We will get to the bottom of what happened, and there will be accountability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Later, then-Attorney General Barr shut down conspiracies about the situation, saying that Epstein had died by suicide, and that he had personally reviewed the security footage of his jail cell, at the time.
[21:05:00]
President Trump became well aware, then, at the time, about the political fallout that can come with any connection to Epstein.
This was my question to then-Labor Secretary Alex Acosta, two days before he resigned over his connections to a very controversial Epstein plea deal, years earlier, back when Acosta was a U.S. Attorney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I'm Kaitlan Collins for CNN.
ALEXANDER ACOSTA, FORMER SECRETARY OF LABOR: Yes.
COLLINS: Would you make this same agreement today?
ACOSTA: So these questions are always very difficult. Because, we now have 12 years of knowledge and hindsight, and we live in a very different world. Today's world treats victims very, very differently. Today's world does not allow some of the victim-shaming that could have taken place at trial 12 years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, he later resigned over that plea deal. That was 2019.
Now, and 2025, on Capitol Hill, we're hearing from some of even the President's most ardent Republican supporters, who are calling on the administration to do more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We should put everything out there and let the people decide.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I fully support the transparency on this issue.
And it's OK to continue to push for it. It's great.
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I just like to see the files turned over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Some of my top sources are here tonight.
Semafor's Shelby Talcott.
Shawn McCreesh of The New York Times.
As well as David Axelrod, and Elie Honig joining us.
And Shelby, you heard the President tonight, at part, blaming the media and saying he doesn't understand. Is it setting in for the White House yet, though, that it is -- it's not the media that is outraged about this, or Democrats, even, as they're talking about it tonight. It's his own supporters that have kept this going for so long.
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: It is. They're well-aware. I've talked to several administration officials today, and over the past few days, who are noting that, yes, they want this to go away. This is their goal.
I asked them about Johnson's comments, earlier today. They referred me to the President's remarks about Pam Bondi, where he supported her. They said that they're probably not going to be commenting further. They want this to go away.
But at the same time, they're acknowledging that this is coming from the base, and this is really splitting his core MAGA supporters. And there's some acknowledgement that they're not sure that it's going to go away as quickly as I think they initially thought they could make it go away.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, Shawn, I've never seen such backlash to people who are so loyal to the President, and always in line with what he says, whether that's influencers online, seeing how they responded to the way he took questions today, or even looking at the comments on his Truth Social post. Normally, it's just all laudatory answers or replies. They're even pushing back on what the President has been saying.
SHAWN MCCREESH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, I think, it's honestly one of the most live by the sword, die by the sword, stories I've ever seen.
And I think one of the more interesting pieces of it, writing about it this week, for me, was talking to people at the White House, who are suddenly just shocked and outraged that this beast that they've been feeding for months suddenly is biting the hand that feeds it.
And these influencers, they've literally invited them into the house. They take them on trips. They give them access to the President. They've grown their following. And it's the first time, since Trump became president again, that they've ever turned against him.
And the influencers are sort of in a weird bind themselves, because if they go after the President, they fear being demolished by him, but they also sort of have to keep it real with their followers, because they're turning on them, too.
And you can see it with Charlie Kirk. He's already flip-flopped and flip-flopped back, and now he's sort of asking questions again. And the White House was sort of cocky about him, I thought, earlier in the week. They were like bragging that they had got him on side. And now he's, you know, he's little being unpredictable again.
COLLINS: Yes. And I think when you hear the President, Axe, blame Comey and Brennan today. I mean, I saw people who are -- who are very loyal to Trump saying, OK, we know the ins and outs of everything related to Jeffrey Epstein. This is a scandal, a conspiracy theory they've been following for so long. And they don't even buy when he -- when he's trying to blame it on Democrats.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRES. OBAMA: No. I mean, he looked like a guy who was falling on some slippery rocks there, trying to find his footing, and went to his go-to play. But I don't think it had a lot of credibility.
And the whole thing that interests me about this is he does command absolute loyalty from the people around him, from the movement. And the idea that Pam Bondi, on her own, decided, You know what? We promised this, but we're just not going to do it? It's just preposterous.
Obviously, the President, for whatever reason, decided he didn't want these files out there, and he's standing behind her for it. She's not an independent thinker in this. She's not Attorney General to be an independent decision-maker on matters like this.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's a really good point in terms of she's obviously taking marching orders from the President.
And Elie Honig, you're with us.
[21:10:00]
When you hear the President say that Bondi has the ability to release whatever she finds credible. He's now said that twice today. That room obviously leaves a lot of -- that word leaves a lot of room for her in essence of where she could take this.
But the President is making clear, in his comments, he doesn't think that there's more that needs to come out. He's trying to say this story is ridiculous, and I don't know why people are still talking about it.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Well, first of all, Kaitlan, he's passing the buck right there.
Because he, as President, absolutely has the authority, as Axe just said, to order the release of any or all documents himself. And instead, what he's doing is trying to sort of pass it off to his Attorney General, using, as you said, this almost impossibly malleable standard of credible. Credible, according to who, how would they possibly judge that?
And Pam Bondi has, by the way, not helped herself at all. She has placed herself in this impossible situation, by A, completely ignoring the DOJ policy that ordinarily the Justice Department would never consider turning over closed case investigative files, but she promised to do it. And B, then by vastly overpromising what was in there. Just a week or two ago, she said she had the Epstein client files on her desk. Turns out, according to the FBI, there is no such file.
So, it's a debacle of Pam Bondi is own making. But I agree, Donald Trump is definitely passing the buck to her here. COLLINS: Well, and Shelby, when you -- when you look at this. And Shawn just referenced Charlie Kirk, and the White House bragging that, Oh, they got him to kind of stop talking about it.
This is what he said yesterday, compared to -- to just show you how mad the MAGA base is, compared to what he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK: Honestly, I'm done talking about Epstein for the time being. I'm going to trust my friends in the administration.
Did I say moving? It's like we're -- we're moving on to another topic. We're not moving on from Epstein. And I think this is very important thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, he went from saying, I'm done talking about it, to, I'm not done talking about it, today.
TALCOTT: Yes, I mean, this is another example.
And Donald Trump has been making these phone calls. He's been reaching out, personally, to some of these folks, and trying to get them on his side, and trying to get them to quiet down. But I think it just goes to show how aggressive the base is about this, and the risk.
I'll give you the example of Dan Bongino. Dan Bongino is a very popular conservative podcaster, before he was Deputy FBI Director. He still has a large following in that podcast orbit, who partially like him because he stood up for this idea, and because he was so sort of aggressive about the Epstein files.
And so, these are all factors that all of these folks, including people inside the administration, are having to keep in mind. And the base is just not letting up on them.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean -- OK, not that you'd ever work in this West Wing. But say you're working in the West Wing, Axe. And, I mean, what would your -- what I -- officials I've heard from, they just seem exasperated and baffled that this is not going away. I don't know if that's a misreading of the base and their anger, or maybe they thought that the base would never truly be mad at them in the way--
AXELROD: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, this is probably the biggest backlash they face from them, since taking office this time.
AXELROD: Yes. Well, look, I probably wouldn't be working in this West Wing. But this West Wing has been -- the marriage between the government and the base is really, really intense here.
And what's interesting to watch is these people who are caught in the middle, who rely both on the base, and Trump. And now these people are supposed to be, you know, their whole stock and trade has been to attack government, and attack conspiracies that government is in the middle of.
And now they're sort of quasi spokespeople for the government, not quasi, but there's -- and they're spokespeople for the government, and now they're being forced to justify the thing that the base hates the most, which is government -- they think government suppression of materials that the public should see. So, this is a -- this is a tangled mess for them.
But he's not doing himself any favors by continuing to talk about it. But it's being pressed upon him.
And I don't know, if I were sitting in the White House right now -- you know, the way that an administration I was involved in would do it would be to sort of have a full discussion of it. We'd probably put the President out there. We'd answer questions.
But if the President has something that he's hiding or doesn't want out there? It's really hard to land in a place that makes people feel good that the issue has been aired.
COLLINS: Yes.
Well, and Elie, on that front. I mean, there's a call for a special counsel to be selected here.
I actually just talked to someone before we came on the air tonight, who's saying that what Pam Bondi was referencing, back in February, when she went on Fox, and was asked about the client list, and said the files were on her desk? That was what was put in that binder that was given to the right-wing influencers, where they were so upset, because basically a lot of that had already been public.
But they're basically saying that what she had then has already been released, and they don't seem to be previewing more -- more to come, necessarily.
[21:15:00]
HONIG: Yes, that was a big disappointment to those folks, who were brought into the White House and told they were given this really exciting document dump. She gave them these binders, marked Phase 1: The Epstein Files. And it was a bunch of stuff that was already out there.
Now, with respect to this speculation that there may be special counsel. If there is a special counsel named? That will be a complete change from anything we've ever known of special counsel, over the last 30-plus years.
Special Counsel doesn't come in just because the A.G. is in a tight spot, just because the public wants to know something. The reason you bring in a special counsel is if you have an active criminal investigation that could touch on the President or someone else around him. So, this would be a sea change in the way special counsel's used. COLLINS: Yes, no indication yet. But we'll see, as the uproar is growing.
Great have all of your perspectives here, and your expertise. Thank you so much for that.
And meanwhile, I mentioned what Republicans on Capitol Hill are saying.
But we're also hearing from Democrats, who are looking to capitalize on this fracture that is happening among the President's biggest supporters. In Congress today, we saw they tried and failed to force Republicans to vote on the record here. Candidates are bringing up the Epstein case in campaign speeches, and at least one Democratic senator is even fundraising off of all of this.
My congressional source tonight is the Vice Chair of the Democratic Caucus. California congressman, Ted Lieu.
And it's great to have you here, sir.
I do wonder how Democrats plan to handle this, going forward, and if you are trying to keep this at the forefront of the news cycle.
REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): Thank you, Kaitlan, for your question.
I think it's important to reiterate that in February of this year, Attorney General Pam Bondi went on national TV, and said that Jeffrey Epstein's client list was, quote, Sitting on my desk right now.
So, she confirmed two things. The existence of Epstein's client list, and that she had it. Where is it now? Why doesn't she release it? This is yet another example of the powerful, protecting the powerful.
And the reason this story won't go away is because at core, this is about underage women being raped and sexually assaulted. Attorney General Pam Bondi needs to release Jeffrey Epstein's client list or she needs to resign.
COLLINS: Well, and she said in the Cabinet meeting, last week, that she was talking just generally about documents related to Epstein.
But some people might see how Democrats are responding to this, now that it has become such an issue for Republicans, and say, Why weren't you guys asking for these documents for the last four years?
LIEU: I talked about the Epstein files under the Biden administration. I'm talking about it now during the Trump administration. And it's because it's not just Trump's base. It should be the American people, and it is American people, because this is, at core, about underage women being sexually assaulted, and abused, and raped. This should not be covered up.
And, I saw your clip of all the Republicans, in the House, that you showed, saying they should release these files. Well, guess what? House Republicans are in the majority. They can issue a subpoena, tomorrow, to get those Epstein files. And if they don't do that? Then they, House Republicans, are facilitating this coverup.
COLLINS: Yes, and we're sure the Justice Department might fight that. We'll see if it comes to that, though.
Congressman Ted Lieu, thanks for your time tonight.
LIEU: Thank you.
COLLINS: And meanwhile, when it comes to the U.S. economy, Americans have been paying up, as the White House is playing the new numbers down. Rising prices are sending inflation to the highest level that's actually been in four months, in part due to the President's trade war, with more threats of more tariffs to come.
My Republican congressional source tonight is the Vice Chair of the Joint Economic Committee, and he joins me right after this break.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, a report card on the economy shows inflation rising to its highest level in months. The rate of inflation rising to 2.7 percent in June, which is the highest since February.
Here's how President Trump responded to those new numbers today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There was very little inflation, as you know, the numbers were very good, very much inside the margin. So we've had no inflation. All we have is we're making a fortune.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Here's what retailers and consumers have been seeing, though, despite what you heard from the President, there.
A dozen eggs are 39 percent more expensive than last year. A pound of coffee, up 30 percent. Sliced bacon, a gallon of milk, a pound of fresh whole chicken, also up.
And items with high exposure to the President's tariffs policies are rising. We saw appliance prices go up 1.9 percent in June. That is the highest jump that we've seen in that, since August of 2020. And the President's 50 percent tariffs on steel and aluminum were extended to include consumer appliances, last month.
Also, toy prices rising for the second month in a row, as the United States imports about 80 percent of toys that we get here, from China.
My source tonight is Republican senator Eric Schmitt of Missouri.
And Senator, it's great to have you here, joining us tonight from Capitol Hill.
I wonder, when you look at these new numbers, do they give you any pause on the President's tariff strategy?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT (R-MO): No, I think what was excluded from the numbers, you've got fuel prices down, you've got gas prices down, you've got fuel commodities down, you've got transportation costs down.
So, if you actually take the core inflation numbers, which is a probably more steady indicator of the trajectory, the core inflation was actually down from month to month. But I mean, you're talking about numbers that are pretty close.
I'm confident that what's happening right now, President Trump inherited an economy that the election cycle, last year, was dominated by two issues, high inflation, of course, mass migration, that President Trump is tackling both of those.
[21:25:00]
And you look at the record investment, Kaitlan, that you see in this country now, $5 trillion. Apple just made another $500 million investment on critical minerals. We're getting manufacturing back. President Trump is tackling these bad trade deals that have saddled this country, for at least a couple of generations now, since the end of the Cold War.
And then you've got now the big, beautiful bill. You've got certainty on tax policy. You're not going to have a $4 trillion tax increase, and you're also going to have no tax on tips, no tax on overtime. So, I think when you've got that kind of runway for President Trump's agenda, you're going to see growth, like you saw in the first term.
COLLINS: So you're not worried that if, in two weeks, on August 1st, that deadline he's been teasing, he puts more tariffs in place, that we could see these inflation numbers continue to go up, in the next critical months that everyone's going to be watching?
SCHMITT: Well, it just didn't happen, when we had tariffs in President Trump's first term. There was a lot of conjecture about whether or not those tariffs were going to cause inflation. It just didn't happen. You've seen actually record dollars into the Treasury now. You saw a surplus, anticipating, $300 billion a year in revenue from essentially that 10 percent tariff.
So, I think that, really, this is about rebalancing the trade imbalance that we've had for such a long time in this country, in getting countries to the table, to drop not just their tariffs, Kaitlan, but all these other trade barriers that exist. And with China, is a whole different category, with their IP theft and a lot of the dumping that they do. But you're seeing our allies, especially, come to the table now. They want to negotiate with President Trump and, I think, when we do that, we're going to be much better off.
And all that's happening at one time. So, we're in the first seven months of the administration.
COLLINS: Yes. SCHMITT: You've got big, beautiful bill. You've got rescissions. You've got the trade deals. You've got the investment. There's enough runway for that to play out.
COLLINS: And of course, the tariffs, though, that we saw in the first term were much more targeted than the ones that we're seeing now. So, that is why the questions about inflation are different here.
But one thing I want to ask you about is today, I was asking the President about his recent threat on Brazil, and justifying the tariffs against Brazil. Obviously, as you know, the United States has a $7.4 billion trade surplus with that country.
This is what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: How do you justify putting tariffs on Brazil if they have a surplus with the United States?
TRUMP: We are doing it because I got to -- because I'm able to do it. Nobody else would be able to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Is that enough for a legal justification, in your view, not liking what a country's judicial system is doing?
SCHMITT: Well, the President has that authority. Absolutely. The question is whether or not that's actually going to happen or not.
I think President Trump has been very adept at bringing people to the table, on a whole host of issues, because nobody has been willing to wield trade policy in a way that President Trump has.
The fact of the matter, Kaitlan, is we have been ripped off for a very, very long time. And I think rebalancing this equation is very important. In my home state of Missouri, we saw the loss of those manufacturing jobs. You saw people imported into this country who were undercutting wages. And for the first time now, we've got a president that cares about that.
America isn't some strip mall with an airport. It's our home. And so, he's fighting for working-class families. And I think, again, this negotiation that happens with a bunch of countries, on a bunch of different, you know, different landscape, we're going to be better off for it.
COLLINS: Yes, of course, Brazil, though, is just focused on the prosecution that's underway of the former leader there.
SCHMITT: Well, Kaitlan, Kaitlan -- but Kaitlan, Kaitlan, hold on--
COLLINS: But let me ask you about what's happening on Capitol Hill.
SCHMITT: Hold on. Let's also remember, they're also a member of BRICs, this alliance with Communist China. And I think what's coming to a head here is that some countries are going to have to make a decision now. Are you going to align yourself by way of trade, with the United States of America--
COLLINS: Yes.
SCHMITT: --or are you going to be with a communist dictatorial regime--
COLLINS: But he's--
SCHMITT: --that has concentration camps?
COLLINS: He's made clear, it's about Bolsonaro. And he repeated that today, he brought it up today, asking about how his trial was going.
But let me ask you about what's happening on Capitol Hill, because you were leading the efforts to codify DOGE's cuts to the federal government, through Congress, to make it law. Senator Murkowski, and we've seen Senator Susan Collins, and Senator Mitch McConnell, all voting against moving that package out of committee. The Vice President broke the tie.
Do you believe, ultimately, this will get passed, despite the concerns we've heard about this?
SCHMITT: I do. I think that our Conference is very well united on this. I mean, this is $9 billion that really gets at some of the worst of the worst. I mean, DEI trainings in Burma. Transgender surgeries or sex change operations in Guatemala. A million dollars for voter ID in Haiti. There's some irony in that.
So, all of that crazy stuff, Kaitlan, is in this, and then including the $1.1 billion for NPR and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. NPR is an ideologically-captured institution at this point, spewing out venom against Republicans at every turn. And so, they don't deserve taxpayer dollars.
So, I think when you put all that stuff in this one package, the $9 billion, which is $90 billion in a 10-year window, we need to get that done, I think, to deliver on behalf of the American people, and restore some trust that this stuff isn't going to be wasted.
COLLINS: Well, and obviously, we'll see how Republicans handle that, and if you get enough Republican support to get that passed, up on Capitol Hill.
I want to ask you about the other thing that Republicans have been talking about today, on Capitol Hill. The Jeffrey Epstein files. I know, obviously, a lot of your colleagues have been asked about this.
Do you personally believe, in your view, that the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, is handling this in the right way?
SCHMITT: I have a lot of faith in Pam Bondi, Kash Patel, and Dan Bongino, and especially President Trump. [21:30:00]
And as a former prosecutor, my job before this was attorney general, it's just, it's really difficult to know exactly what they were looking at, right, to really opine about whether or not there's a charging decision to be made, and so. But again, I think that President Trump's got a great team, taking a look at this.
COLLINS: Well, you yourself were in the running to be attorney general. You took yourself out of contention during the transition, for those who don't remember.
I just asked, because you posted, for example, on February 26th, a siren emoji, and you wrote, Epstein logs to be released tomorrow. Thanks, Pam Bondi.
What was released, the right-wing influencers, that were given it, said it was nothing new. They were very upset about it.
Do you believe enough information has been shared on this matter?
SCHMITT: Look, I mean, people are rightfully curious about this. I know I am, still am, of course.
But when you're a prosecutor, and you're looking at information, sensitive information that, whether you have enough evidence or not to move forward? That's a different equation than sort of political speculation that's happening right now.
COLLINS: So that sounds like you don't think more should be released?
SCHMITT: Well, I don't know -- again, I don't know what she's looking at, what can be released? If something can be released, I'd love to see it. But again, when you're conducting a criminal investigation, it's a little bit different kind of scenario. So again, not knowing what she's looking at, it's just difficult to opine. And sometimes, I think the best answer here is, I just don't know.
COLLINS: Are you surprised by how upset the MAGA base has been over this?
SCHMITT: No, I think that people feel like the government has lied to them, on multiple occasions -- or occasions before. I certainly understand that. And in many ways, this election cycle was about the disruptors versus the establishment. So, I understand the sentiment.
But that doesn't have, necessarily, with this individual circumstance, as far as what Pam Bondi was looking at, or what the FBI was looking at, whether or not there's enough evidence to move forward, I just don't know that.
COLLINS: OK. But you think if it can be released, it should be released.
Senator Eric Schmitt, thank you for joining us tonight. Thanks for your time. SCHMITT: Anytime.
COLLINS: Also today, former National Security Advisor, Mike Waltz, was up on Capitol Hill today, telling Congress he believed it was appropriate for him to use the messaging app known as Signal. That was, of course, the group chat seen around the world.
My source tonight sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and questioned Mike Waltz today. We'll speak with him, Chris Murphy, right after this.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Former National Security Advisor, Mike Waltz, faced lawmakers publicly, for the first time, since the Signalgate scandal, testifying today that no classified information was shared in that leaked chat that inadvertently included a reporter, as U.S. officials were planning military strikes in Yemen.
During Waltz's confirmation hearing, for his second job in the Trump administration, as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Republicans focused on his pledge to make the United Nations great again, as Democrats expressed concern that the United States' ability to exert influence abroad is waning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WALTZ, BUSINESSMAN AND FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR OF THE UNITED STATES: The White House conducted an investigation, and my understanding is the Department of Defense is still conducting an investigation.
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Was any disciplinary action taken?
WALTZ: From the White House investigation, Senator?
COONS: Yes.
WALTZ: No.
SEN. MIKE LEE (R-UT): The U.S. must ensure that every foreign aid dollar and every contribution to an international organization, particularly the U.N., draws a straight and direct line to a compelling U.S. national interest, one that puts America first, not last
WALTZ: And I'm confident we can make the U.N. great again.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): The private sector isn't going to fight Russian and Chinese propaganda around the world, right?
WALTZ: Well, what they are going to do is show the power of free markets, through -- the power of entrepreneurship, and show, really, the power of the U.S., in terms of a free society and with our values, and frankly -- but I don't think--
MURPHY: We're going to rely on -- we're going to rely on--
WALTZ: I think we're actually--
MURPHY: We're going to rely on Disney?
WALTZ: I think we're actually more aligned than what you think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Democratic senator, Chris Murphy of Connecticut, that you heard from there.
And Senator, when you had Mike Waltz in front of you, in front of your panel, do you believe that he had sufficient answers about the Signal group chat?
MURPHY: Well, I don't know why there still needs to be an ongoing Department of Defense investigation. The whole world knows what happened.
He mistakenly put a reporter on a commercial texting chain, and then revealed to that reporter, classified information. We know it's classified, because we all read it. He included in his messages to the reporter, details about the timing and nature of strikes against Yemen.
Listen, I think that controversy could have blown over, in a couple of days, if they had just admitted to what they had done, and had some consequences. But they are still lying to this day.
He is standing in front of those cameras, in front of our committee today, and claiming that that was not classified information, when everyone knows it was some of the most deeply classified information that exists in the American national security infrastructure, the details about the timing of military attacks, overseas.
Just like they stand in front of the cameras and say, Well, we're not throwing anybody off of Medicaid, we're not cutting Medicaid. When the bill they're voting on cuts Medicaid by $900 billion. These guys just believe if they say one plus one equals three, enough times, people will believe it, and that is one of the reasons why I think he is just not qualified to do this job. He can't be straight with the American people.
COLLINS: Yes, I think there are real questions about what that Pentagon probe looks like, and if they're going to make the results of that public. It doesn't seem to be the case.
[21:40:00]
The other question he was asked today that stood out to me was, when the White House released its list of salaries, as it does for staffers who are on the payroll, on July 1st, he was still on there, despite the fact that he was ousted as the actual National Security Advisor. Hence the reason he's before your committee and seeking confirmation for this job.
And your colleague, Senator Jacky Rosen, questioned Waltz about that, and this is how he answered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JACKY ROSEN (D-NV): Can you confirm for us whether you've been receiving a salary from the White House since being let go at the NSA?
WALTZ: Thank you, Senator. I was not fired. The President never said that, nor did the Vice President. I was kept on as an Advisor, transitioning a number of important -- a number of important activities.
ROSEN: You were dismissed from being the National Security Advisor.
WALTZ: Well, the reporting, Senator, is fake news, which shouldn't surprise anyone. The President was clear. His announcement was, I will nominate Mr. Waltz. And then the Vice President was--
ROSEN: You know, fake news can't be the answer to everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I wonder what that answer said to you.
MURPHY: I mean, come on, he was fired. He's not doing that job. Marco Rubio is publicly acknowledging that he now holds the role of both Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor. So, once again, you have the guy who we are going to send to the U.N., to stand for U.S. credibility, lying to the committee and to the public.
He's not doing the job of National Security Advisor. He was let go from that position. And yet, he's been drawing his salary. Which, also tells you, that these guys are just not on the level, when they talk about government efficiency, if they've been paying a salary to somebody who hasn't been showing up to the job for the last several months. They aren't terribly serious about being good stewards of the taxpayer dollars.
COLLINS: So, you believe he lied today?
MURPHY: I mean, he's not doing the job. Marco Rubio is the current National Security Advisor. He is not running National Security Council processes. He is -- he is not the National Security Advisor, and that's not really up for debate.
COLLINS: It sounds like you plan to vote against him, I would assume?
MURPHY: Yes, I mean, I'm voting against him for a number of reasons. But I think at the heart of it, for me, is the fact that today, he essentially advertised that he was going to the U.N. to try to dismantle some of the most important things that the U.N. does. And that's par for the course in this administration.
They nominate a Secretary of Education, who wants to destroy federal support for public schools. They nominate somebody to head up our vaccine programs, who wants to destroy support for publicly-funded vaccines. And they're sending someone to the U.N., who wants to dismantle some of the most important humanitarian and peacekeeping functions of the U.N.
COLLINS: Yes, but do you--
MURPHY: So no, I don't think we should be sending people to the U.N., who don't support the basic foundations of the U.N.'s mission.
COLLINS: But do you acknowledge, I mean, Republicans are in the majority, that he is likely to get confirmed?
MURPHY: Oh no, I think he's absolutely likely to get confirmed.
But that doesn't mean that I have to provide a vote for someone who I believe has not told the truth about critical national security matters to the public, or to our committee, and someone who is frankly going to hurt our national security interests, by compromising the really important diplomatic and peacekeeping work that the U.N. does overseas.
COLLINS: Senator Chris Murphy, thanks for your time tonight.
MURPHY: Thank you.
COLLINS: Meanwhile, the Democrats' latest generational test is underway, right now in Arizona, where a special House election is pitting the daughter of a late Congressman, against a social media influencer who could be the first Gen Z woman in Congress.
My source tonight, Van Jones, is here on set with me next.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Right now, we are just minutes away from polls closing in a special election that's happening tonight, in southern Arizona, that could have some pretty big implications for the future of the Democratic Party. It's the race to succeed the late Congressman Raul Grijalva. It's a test on many fronts that includes voters' appetite for generational change.
The leading candidates are former Pima County Supervisor, Adelita Grijalva, who has pitched herself as a continuation of her father's progressive legacy. Both Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have endorsed her.
But her two top rivals are Deja Foxx, who is an activist and social media influencer. She's got the backing of the former DNC Vice Chair, David Hogg. And also the former State Rep. Daniel Hernandez. He's the top fundraiser in that race, and he's finding himself as more of the centrist alternative.
My source tonight is former Obama administration official, Van Jones. And it's great to have you here on set, Van.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yes.
COLLINS: There have been so many questions about age, experience, values, what that looks like, and what do Democratic voters want right now. What do you think we're going to learn from this race tonight?
V. JONES: Well, whoever wins, remember the name, Deja Foxx. Deja Foxx is a phenomenon.
COLLINS: She's 25-years-old.
V. JONES: She's 25-years-old, and she's extraordinary, and she is charting a completely different path to influence and to standing in this party. She organized a whole campaign on discord. Not -- never actually heard of discord. I thought discord was just like people being mean to each other. Turns out, like a whole--
COLLINS: A whole world.
V. JONES: --it's a whole thing. And so, she's been able to -- she used TikTok and discord, and she has basically done an end run around the party establishment.
[21:50:00]
Now, of course, Raul Grijalva is somebody that all progressives, including myself, love. His daughter is running. She gets it. She'll do a great job.
But the same thing you saw, here in New York City. The Cuomo name, huge name, didn't matter.
We're going to see tonight, does legacy matter? Does energy matter? Do politics matter? And is there a youth quake trying to happen in this country, as young people go a completely different route from the establishment?
COLLINS: A youth quake.
V. JONES: A youth quake. I mean, it--
COLLINS: I like that term.
V. JONES: It's -- look, I don't know how close she's going to get -- she may win, she may not win. But just think about this. She had the entire establishment drop a ton of bricks on her. Her opponents got all the endorsements and all the money. Deja has raised as much money as her competitors, all small-dollar donors. That's an extraordinary thing to say about anybody, let alone a 25-year-old newcomer.
COLLINS: And some people might see that and say, Hmm, Zohran Mamdani just did that in New York. Had a lot of people -- I mean, he still hasn't gotten the endorsement from Democratic leaders, even though he has the nomination--
V. JONES: Yes, he may--
COLLINS: --as the Democrat there. He and Cuomo obviously had very different platforms that they were--
V. JONES: Yes.
COLLINS: --they were running on. They're still running against each other, just in different ways.
But these two, as we've been talking about, what they're -- what they're running on, they're both progressives.
V. JONES: Both progressives.
COLLINS: They don't actually differ that much on policy.
V. JONES: No.
COLLINS: I just want people to listen to the messaging we've heard, and what voters tonight have been hearing from both of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADELITA GRIJALVA, FORMER MEMBER OF THE PIMA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: When you grow up Grijalva, you learn how to fight and who you're fighting for. That's why my parents named me Adelita. It means fighter, and I have been on the front line since my first memory through today.
DEJA FOXX, POLITICIAN: This moment demands new leaders who aren't afraid to stand up. I'm Deja Foxx. I don't have a legacy last name or big donors, but I approve this message because this moment calls for more than a politician. We deserve a fighter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I think there's the question of what kind of fighter are Democratic voters looking for--
V. JONES: Yes.
COLLINS: --right now?
V. JONES: Well, look, I mean, I think the base of this party is frustrated. People are hurting and uncertain, economically and politically, and they want fresh voices and fresh faces.
And I think the thing that you're going to see increasingly is authenticity matters more than ever before. And somebody like Deja Foxx, like she grew up half homeless, she got to use Planned Parenthood for her health care, she got famous initially standing up to Senator Flake at a town hall meeting, went mega-viral and became a sensation. I have a 16-year-old son, who lives in Los Angeles, who doesn't care about politics at all. He saw me FaceTiming with her, trying to get her to come on CNN, and he heard her voice across the room, and walked across the room like a zombie, Are you talking to Deja Foxx? I'm like, there is something happening with these young people that, I think, we're -- some of us are missing. She may not win, but you are going to hear her name for a long time.
COLLINS: That is really interesting in terms of what appeals to them and how.
V. JONES: Yes.
COLLINS: Because I think when Zohran Mamdani was running, not that it's a complete comparison in the two races, but people kind of dismissed his strategy. They weren't sure if it would work. And now that he won so successfully in that primary race, people are trying to adopt that. I mean, he was saying yesterday, that even Andrew Cuomo is trying to adopt that.
V. JONES: Well, look, I -- look, Mamdani would do a lot better if he'd clean up some of the anti-Jewish stuff that he's said, or anti-Israel stuff that he's said. He's got to -- he's got to get away from Globalize the Intifada, and stuff like that, that's scaring the crap out of the Jewish community in New York. But if he can clean some of that sort of stuff up, he's got a real clear shot.
And I think the other thing about Cuomo is, no -- he didn't run a race. He just leaned on the unions, leaned on the big donors, ran a bunch of crappy TV ads, and thought he was just going to get it. Mamdani actually ran a race.
And so, you're going to see, I don't care who you are in this party, you're going to have to go out there and earn it from this Democratic Party.
COLLINS: All right. Van Jones, always great to have you.
V. JONES: Glad to be here.
COLLINS: Especially on set, to use phrases like youth quake. Great to have you here.
Up next. We are seeing President Trump, tonight, escalate revenge -- his revenge campaign. New attacks on Senator Adam Schiff. Why the President is -- what the President is accusing him of, and why he is calling him a scam artist, and what the truth is behind that, next.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Finally, tonight, three things you may have missed.
Russia launched a massive attack on our Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city, with a military official there, saying they were hit with at least 17 explosions, in just 20 minutes, most of which they say were on civilian structures. It comes just one day, after we heard from President Trump saying he was disappointed in President Putin, and was giving him 50 days to end the war.
In a new critic -- in a new attack on an old critic, I should note, President Trump is accusing Democratic senator, Adam Schiff, of committing mortgage fraud, by allegedly reporting where his primary residence is incorrectly.
Schiff, who, of course, infamously led Trump's first impeachment trial, which is why the President is so angry with him, fired back, and said, quote, "This baseless attempt at political retribution won't stop me from holding" Trump accountable.
A spokesperson for Schiff told The Washington Post, that lenders for Schiff's home were well-aware of his use of both homes while in public office. An official told The Post that a criminal case has been referred to the Justice Department.
[22:00:00]
And nominations for the 77th Primetime Emmy Awards are out tonight. Apple TV's "Severance" was the most nominated show, notching 27 nominations, including Outstanding Drama Series.
And while no other drama racked up nearly as many nods, HBO Max's "The Pitt" had a notable breakout hit with 13 nominations, as that emergency room drama also gave the actor, Noah Wyle, his first Emmy nomination for Lead Actor in 26 years. The last time was when he played Dr. Carter on "ER."
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
