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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Texas House Passes Trump-Backed Map That Favors GOP; Judge Rejects DOJ Request To Unseal Epstein Grand Jury Docs; Hurricane Erin Brings Rip Current Warnings From Florida To Maine. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired August 20, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF AND CORRESPONDENT: --as part of this operation, and that's in addition to the active-duty troops required for this new fight. And there you see the burden on the military, after two years of war.

Oren Liebermann, CNN, in Jersualem.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: A report from Jerusalem tonight.

We'll continue to follow developments with the hurricane -- or Tropical Storm Erin.

That's all for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: President Trump is on the verge of a Texas-sized win, as he tries to ensure that Republicans control every lever of power, here in Washington, for the entirety of his presidency.

I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

The Texas House just passed the new congressional map, the President explicitly asked for, a map designed to deliver him five more Republican seats in Congress, and Texas Republicans certainly owned that goal today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD HUNTER, (R) TEXAS STATE HOUSE: I'm standing with Republican members. And what's wrong with Republicans standing up, and Republicans stepping up, and Republicans being honest, which you don't like, which is, Supreme Court says we can use political and partisanship to do congressional redistricting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: The State Senate is expected to put its final stamp of approval on the map, tomorrow, handing Republicans a win in the first of many battles in the coast-to-coast redistricting war.

But Democrats in Texas didn't go down without a fight. They, of course, fled the state for more than two weeks, only to return to around-the-clock police escorts to make sure they couldn't leave again. They slept on the House floor, and even tried forcing a last- minute vote on the one thing that President Trump would like everyone to stop talking about. The Epstein files.

But none of it was enough to stop, what they argue is, a stain on their state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE COLLIER, (D) TEXAS STATE HOUSE: Today is not the end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.

COLLIER: It is the start of a new beginning of the new Democratic Party, where we won't back down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

COLLIER: We won't put up with their (bleep).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(CHEERING)

COLLIER: And we will push and push and push until we take over this country.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: My source tonight is Democratic State Representative, John Bucy III.

Representative, tell us what's the mood inside of your caucus like tonight, now that this map has officially passed the House.

JOHN BUCY III, (D) TEXAS STATE HOUSE: Today is shameful. Donald Trump demanded that Greg Abbott steal five seats away from the people of this state, and Greg Abbott conceded immediately, never putting the people of Texas first. Unfortunately, Texas Republicans joined him, and unanimously said, they were no longer going to listen to the people, but just to the one man in the White House.

But I'll tell you, intro said we lost today. The people of America are watching, and they are ignited to fight back. Texas Democrats stood up, they resisted. And now we're seeing resistance across this country. Americans are not going to allow Donald Trump to lean more into authoritarianism. We will fight him back in every step of the way, including at the ballot box in 2026.

KEILAR: Gene Wu, the Chair of your Party caucus, tried to introduce an amendment today that would have blocked the map from going into effect until all files related to Jeffrey Epstein are released. Why tie redistricting to something unrelated, to Epstein?

BUCY III: Look, what's happening with redistricting are political games. They are shameful games that are silencing the voice of black and brown communities and Texans across the state.

What's happening with Epstein is Donald Trump knows he's in the list. He's got something to hide. And so, if he wants these maps so bad, if he wanted to rig 2026, then let's be more transparent about what's going on in your life, Mr. President.

KEILAR: Do you have evidence of that? I just want to be clear.

BUCY III: Look, I -- we've never seen Donald Trump work so hard to stop the release of something. He knows he's in there. He knows what's going on.

KEILAR: So, I want to know if you think your party can be competitive in these five districts. Do you think Republicans are clear on their advantage here, or do you think they might be overestimating?

BUCY III: Look, Republicans are trying to rig the game, but the people of Texas are fed up, and they're looking for leadership. In the last two weeks, they've seen that leadership from Texas Democrats, and I think they're ready for change in this state.

[21:05:00]

Voters want to pick their representatives. They don't want it the other way around, and that's what happened today. Republicans tried to silence voters. And I'll tell you, we're going to go fight in every congressional district. We're not going to take any seat for granted. We're not going to concede any seat. We're going to bring the fight to them. That's why we didn't lose today. This is the light that will spark change across the state and across this country.

KEILAR: So, as we are looking to these next states, in this redistricting war, Democrats are at a clear disadvantage. Republicans have the ability to draw more seats for themselves nationwide. How should Republicans respond to be effective?

BUCY III: Look, Democrats are showing that they're going to fight fire with fire. Republicans rigged the game, and they cheated today, and now we're seeing California respond. We're going to see other states respond. This is a fight that we must all be a part of. Every American has to step up and fight back. We can't take our democracy for granted.

I am against gerrymandering, period. But when Donald Trump and Greg Abbott want to rig the system, I am proud that we have Democrats that are going to punch back, and we're going to stop them from taking over this country. This country belongs to the people, not to Donald Trump and his billionaire oligarchs.

KEILAR: Democrats are planning to pursue a legal route to challenge this, Representative. Tell us about that. What makes you think that your party can succeed in that?

BUCY III: Look, Texas -- in the history of Texas, since the Voting Rights Act, we have fought these maps, and we have won. Every time, when they do racist maps, which is what they did today, silencing black and brown communities. In my community of Austin, they are now going to be spread out in my area of Austin by 500 miles from one end to the other. This is ridiculous, what they're doing to silence votes and voices that they don't agree with.

So, we're going to take it to the courts, and we're very optimistic that we can win there. But we're not taking that for granted alone. Like I said, we're working on our campaigns, and we're going to fight back in every district across the state.

KEILAR: Texas State Representative, John Bucy III, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

BUCY III: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: And I do note that President Trump has not been linked to wrongdoing, when it comes to the Epstein files. And we still are awaiting more information, as the House Oversight Committee is awaiting some documents, certainly from the Department of Justice.

Now ahead, this fight, it's not restricted to Texas, to the Lone Star State. California is next on the front lines, where Democrats are expected to pass a bill tomorrow, to put their newly-proposed map on the ballot to offset those GOP gains that are expected in Texas, and give Democrats back five seats in Congress.

Tonight, a Democratic heavyweight is backing that strategy, former President Barack Obama posting this, saying, Over the long term, we shouldn't have political gerrymandering in America, just a fair fight between Republicans and Democrats based on who's got better ideas. But since Texas is taking direction from a partisan White House and gerrymandering in the middle of a decade to try and maintain the House despite their unpopular policies, I have tremendous respect for how Governor Newsom has approached this. He's put forward a smart, measured approach in California, designed to address a very particular problem at a very particular moment in time.

My next source is California Republican State Senator, Suzette Martinez Valladares.

And thank you so much for being with us.

I do want to note, you're part of this emergency petition that was filed with the California Supreme Court, where you're arguing that it's unconstitutional, the process here, how Democrats are moving their proposed new map that Governor Newsom hopes could give Democrats, these five House seats, to nullify the five, Republicans are expecting in Texas.

Have you heard anything from the court? Because you had requested immediate relief, no later than today.

SUZETTE MARTINEZ VALLADARES, (R) CALIFORNIA STATE SENATE: So Brianna, first of all, thank you so much for having me on tonight, for allowing me to share exactly what is going on, here in California.

Today, or over the past two weeks, we've seen and we've saw that we have a governor, we have political insiders, we have legislators, who are breaking California's constitution by drawing congressional maps, behind closed doors, with no transparency. And we have myself, Republicans, Democrats, Independents that are coming together to fight back to uphold California's constitution.

Now, yes, we filed one of what I believe is going to be the first of many lawsuits, asking the court to simply tell the California Legislature, Follow the law, follow the Constitution.

Now, unfortunately, I just received word that the Supreme Court will not be taking up this lawsuit. But again, this is going to be the first of many, because we are seeing and hearing that legislators have unconstitutionally and illegally been a part of drawing these maps.

KEILAR: OK, that's news. So, they are not going to take up this case, this emergency petition that you and other Republicans have filed.

[21:10:00]

The new maps that Democrats in your state want to pass includes -- they include a trigger, that they would only go into effect if Texas' redistricted maps go into effect. We're seeing that proceed tonight in Texas, obviously.

Do you hold Texas Republicans at all responsible for what you're facing in your state?

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: Well, that actually, you know, Governor Newsom said that this would only happen if Texas redrew their maps. However, that's not what the bill language they presented said. It says, If any state redraws their maps, that this would go into in effect.

Now, it's my understanding, I'm not a Texas voter, I'm not a Texas legislator, that they have a court order to redraw those maps. Now, what we're frustrated with here is that we should never overturn democracy, and California's constitution, because of what other states are doing, which is exactly what we're going to continue to fight against, here in California.

KEILAR: OK, but that's the effect of this. There is a trigger. This isn't happening in a vacuum. There's a contingency and, in this case, it is Texas. So, let's just be clear. If it says, Other states? Well, it's Texas. So do you have any criticism for members of your own party in Texas?

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: So again, in 2008 and 2010, California voters spoke. Republicans, Democrats, Independents, said, We are going to take map drawing, congressional map drawing, district map drawing, out of the hands of politicians, and we're going to give it to the people.

We have an Independent Redistricting Commission that has a long, fair and transparent process. So for us, we want to uphold that, because it's the most fair process for drawing lines. It doesn't allow politicians to do this in backrooms. I encourage every state to take this up--

KEILAR: So then what do you think about what they're doing in Texas?

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: So what I think is, again, here, I encourage every state to take California's lead, and adopting their own independent redistricting commission. We took that to the voters.

I think we're going to defeat this. Unfortunately, we have this lawsuit that we lost today. We're going to continue to fight this here in the legislature, at the ballot box, and continue to tell other states, Do the right thing, uphold democracy, implement your own independent redistricting commissions.

KEILAR: If you can't criticize Republicans in Texas for their approach, which is so different from the one that you're advocating for in California, I mean, how should voters see California Republicans as opposed to a move like this, only when it doesn't favor them?

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: Listen, I was elected, and the 120 legislators that were elected, this past November, in California, to uphold the California constitution.

This isn't a Republican issue. This isn't a Democrat issue. This is an issue of political elitists, in California, silencing and taking the power away from California voters. What we're doing in California, this legislation, this governor, isn't taking away the power of voters in Texas. They're taking away the power of voters in California.

We have a right, we have an obligation, here in California, as California legislators, to uphold the California Constitution, to uphold the will of our voters, here in California. And I will never back down from that, and I will speak up for Republicans, Democrats, whoever it is, to make sure that they are empowered voters here in California.

KEILAR: Do you see how this has become a national issue, though?

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: Absolutely. And that's why I come back to, if -- the rest of the nation should follow California's gold standard. That is, we have a fair, a transparent redistricting model that allows for public comment, that our constitution says that we should keep cities together, we should keep counties together.

And since we passed this, this fair process, California has seen the immense growth of phenomenal leadership. For the first time in California's history, because of our fair and transparent redistricting process, we have a majority woman-led Senate. We have elected more Latinos, more Hispanics, more Asians, more black legislators, over the past few years, because of the work of this commission that was passed by California voters. I'm not letting that be thrown away because of politics as usual. I'm here to defend California's constitution.

[21:15:00]

KEILAR: So, it has become evident that a few California Republican lawmakers are acceptable collateral damage for President Trump, if he's able to secure more Republican gains overall, in states considering redistricting, what would you say to the President?

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: Listen, my message is loud and clear. I am here to protect the voters of California. We want fairness. We want transparency.

KEILAR: But what would you say to the President, because they're not--

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: We're sick of politicians--

KEILAR: What would you say to the President? Because this isn't happening in a vacuum, and this very much has to do with his request for getting more safe seats in Congress. What would you say to the President?

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: Well, I'm assuming, if the -- if the President listens to this show, he is going to know loud and clear, how I feel about transparency and fairness in our elections process, specifically when it comes to redistricting.

KEILAR: State Senator, Suzette Valladares, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate it. From the great state of California, I am admittedly biased. Thank you for being with us.

MARTINEZ VALLADARES: Thank you.

KEILAR: Coming up. A judge rejects the Trump administration's request to release Jeffrey Epstein grand jury documents suggesting it's, quote, a Diversion. So, what happens next? My legal and White House insiders are here with us.

[21:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Tonight, the Trump Justice Department is now 0-for-three on attempts to unseal grand jury transcripts, and exhibits, from the investigation into Jeffrey Epstein, after another judge just rejected another Trump administration request.

The judge's denial stymies the administration's attempt to quash mounting criticism, over its handling of the Epstein drama, writing, quote, "The information contained in the Epstein grand jury transcripts pales in comparison to the Epstein investigation information and materials in the hands of the Department of Justice." A reminder that other than these grand jury materials, which, according to the judge today, only include testimony from a single FBI agent, the DOJ has the power, right now, to release nearly everything else, with redactions to protect the victims.

My legal source tonight, CNN Legal Analyst, and former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.

And Zolan Kanno-Youngs of The New York Times.

Yes, Elliot, the DOJ knows what's in these grand jury transcripts, right?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, FMR. DOJ DEPUTY ASST. ATTY. GENERAL FOR LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS: Yes.

KEILAR: Because they are the ones who presented the underlying evidence, the content that the transcript is based on. So, what did you think about the judge calling him out on it?

WILLIAMS: I think very little about the judge, because it was such an obvious legal point that the judge was making.

It should come as a surprise to no one that three different judges, appointed by different presidents, of different parties, have all come to largely the same conclusion about this issue, which is that grand jury materials are just built different. The law treats them differently. It's not a judgment call. It's not sort of something where reasonable minds can differ.

Now, perhaps in the Second Circuit, where New York is, there might be a little bit more wiggle room as to what you can do with grand jury materials. But again, it's an enormously high burden to overcome, and this case just wasn't it.

And so, I'm not surprised that the judge came out the way he did, using the strong language that he did, in saying that the Justice Department was really just putting up a smokescreen or distraction.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I was a little taken aback, though, just on the judge, intentionally or not, pretty much calling it as it is, when it comes to the political dynamics here, right?

WILLIAMS: Right.

KANNO-YOUNGS: You basically have the administration doing this, saying, Release these grand jury -- these -- this grand jury testimony here, even though the DOJ has hundreds of thousands -- or excuse me, thousands of documents of their own in this case, as they are facing backlash from their own base. And he did indicate that this was a distraction of sorts here.

There are political dynamics here mixed in with this legal case as well. You almost have the administration not wanting to release the full documents from the DOJ, even though they could and -- but, at the same time, pointing to this case, these repeated attempts, in an attempt to message to their base, See, we are doing something here.

KEILAR: Well, that's -- I wonder if they're buying it, because this was always supposed to be this kind of heat shield from all of the guff--

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right.

KEILAR: --that they were getting from their base, right? And it's been over a month since they sort of implemented this device, which, I think, to any sort of political observer, they know what it is. But to his base, it seems like it's sort of -- it's inaction kind of disguised as action.

I wonder, is the MAGA base sullen? Are they buying it? I mean, is some of that heat coming from them? Has it died down because of this approach?

KANNO-YOUNGS: Well, I mean, you had a couple phases to this. The initial phase, when this was starting, I mean, the administration was facing questions and a lot of backlash throughout, and they went with the strategy of, just trying to wait it out and hoping it would go away. That didn't work, right? It only ratcheted up.

Since they've done this, I feel like it has quieted down, just because you have so many other things going on in the world right now. But to be clear, they're still facing questions about this each day. You still see some of those favored podcasts, that riled up the President's base, that are still talking about this.

Which also brings up another point here, just to zoom out, the administration brought -- the administration, sort of dug this hole, right? They brought people into the DOJ, and brought in top officials, that set these high expectations. Deputy Director of the FBI, Attorney General, President himself, right? So, they set these expectations, and now they're confronting it. I don't think it's completely died down at this point.

[21:25:00]

KEILAR: And Pam Bondi, the A.G., has sort of emerged from this self- exile that she sort of, I guess, put herself into here, for the last month or so. She has installed this co-deputy FBI director, alongside Dan Bongino. Trump officials say it's a sign that she won this power struggle. Is that how you see it, Elliot?

WILLIAMS: It's -- I do. And it's a little bit odd, only because -- you know, step back. Who is the Deputy Director, generally? That has long been an individual who has experience in the FBI, who is a career law enforcement officer, and really is the person who runs the day-to-day operations of the FBI. Now, you did not have that in Dan Bongino, and you kind of don't have that now, with the second person they put in.

Yes, this is sort of all political, and a way of giving fig leaves to different people in the administration, or different people in the President's base. KEILAR: When I say she went on a self-exile, she took, basically, a month-long break, from what were pretty regular appearances on Fox, and then she actually went on Fox, twice this week.

We should note that she was not asked about Epstein, during those appearances. What's going on there?

KANNO-YOUNGS: I mean, why they made the decision to not ask? I'm not sure. But regardless of what the Attorney--

KEILAR: It's topical, to be clear.

KANNO-YOUNGS: It certainly--

KEILAR: Right, Zolan? OK.

KANNO-YOUNGS: It certainly is news. But whether or not she's asked in that interview, to the point before, when it comes to some of the different media outlets that the President's base tunes into, online, digital, podcast, this is still very relevant, right?

I don't see this just fading away, and the Attorney General, really, any administration official, being able to avoid this for too long. Which is why, again, you're seeing this action, right? To be -- you're seeing this action to release these grand jury testimonies. It's an attempt to feed that base.

WILLIAMS: And again, it's feeding the base with something that's not feeding them anything at all. As the judge had noted, there are tens, if not, hundreds of thousands of documents in the Justice Department's possession.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: The grand jury materials -- and if there's one thing the world needs to hear from my voice, it's that nothing was going to be in grand jury materials--

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right.

WILLIAMS: --that would satisfy the public on this issue. They tend to be very limited. It wasn't going to work here.

KEILAR: Air, right?

WILLIAMS: Air.

KEILAR: All right. Thank you guys so much.

Selling President Trump's D.C. crackdown, Vice President JD Vance is out of the hospital or -- out in the Capitol today, touting the federal takeover, and casting doubt on D.C.'s reported crime stats. My political insiders are next.

[21:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(VIDEO - VANCE & TRUMP OFFICIALS BOOED WHILE VISITING NATIONAL GUARD IN D.C.)

PROTESTERS: Free D.C., Free D.C., Free D.C.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Protesters showed up for Vice President JD Vance today, as he and Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, and White House Deputy Chief of Staff, Stephen Miller, made a lunch appearance with some National Guard members that President Trump deployed to Washington, D.C.

And at times, the chants even drown out Vance, as he was speaking to reporters, prompting him and Miller to respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I think you hear these guys out -- outside here, screaming at us. Of course, these are a bunch of crazy protesters.

But I'll tell you, a couple of years ago, when I brought my kids here, they were being screamed at by violent vagrants, and it was scaring the hell out of my kids.

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: We're going to ignore these stupid white hippies that all need to go home and take a nap because they're all over 90-years-old.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So the moment illustrates a sharp divide, between the Trump administration and D.C. residents, who overwhelmingly voted against the President, and according to new polling, do not believe his federal takeover is making the city safer.

While Democrats and local officials point to the statistics, showing violent crime falling in recent years. Vance asserted today that those numbers are wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: I think that crime statistics, all over our country, were massively underreported, because a lot of people would pick up the phone, they'd call somebody, they'd try to get help, and nobody would show up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to be releasing evidence of this?

VANCE: Of what? That D.C. has a terrible crime problem? You just got to look around.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: My political sources tonight are:

Alyssa Farah Griffin, former Trump White House communications director.

And Ameshia Cross, Democratic strategist and former Obama campaign advisor.

Alyssa, if you live in D.C., or you have lived in D.C. anytime recently -- I have for well over a decade, full disclosure -- the experience of living here kind of tracks with these statistics.

But the dip in crime doesn't fit the Trump narrative. And so now you have administration officials, like Vance, saying, OK, the numbers are fake.

How do you expect that they are going to try to prove that point?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know that they're going to try to prove it.

Listen, I think that the White House is trying to goad Democrats into arguing, D.C., the nation's capital, is totally safe. There's nothing to see here. There are no camps set up, and tents that you see around D.C. That's what they want. They want to have that fight. Because while the stats don't help their case, there's always going to be things you could point to, whether it's carjackings or violent attacks that take place.

And as you and I were talking off air, we've lived in D.C. Several years ago, it did get pretty bad. Coming out of COVID, there was just a spike in crime that was taking place. And now it's really evened out. But the stats don't really bear out what the White House is saying.

[21:35:00]

But I would caution Democrats to go too far in arguing the other direction, because there are always going to be bad actors that you can point to.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. And Ameshia, that's really the thing, because this focus on immigration and crime, public safety? That helped Trump, I mean, it helped win over some voters for him, even in states where maybe you think he wouldn't, New York, New Jersey, California, in 2024.

How do Democrats who know this, and know that that narrative resonates, walk that line between fighting back against what they're saying, which may be untrue, but not appearing soft on crime, or like impervious to some crime that is obviously happening?

AMESHIA CROSS, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Partially, I think that they have to do -- they have a very thin line to walk, being that Trump was able to succeed because he perpetuated a crime narrative. We know that he ran on in 2020, and we know that he also ran on again in 2024. And to a certain extent, people believed it.

He is somebody who pushes narrative, and narrative is what matters to people. It's how they feel. It's not necessarily what the polling shows or what the numbers and data show, regardless of the policy.

I think that for Democrats, it is acknowledging that there are people who still feel unsafe, in various cities, across America, including in D.C.

Yes, it's happening in certain pockets of the city, not all across the city. We are not living in a hellscape here in D.C. We can acknowledge that, but also that there are public and private partnerships that need to take place to ensure that the city is safe. That people need to be listened to in the communities, particularly the communities of color and black women who have called out for decades, here in this city, a lot of the tragic things that are happening in their communities, be it, whether it's sexual assault, robbery, you name it.

But in addition to that, I think that Democrats have to also call his bluff, be willing to call him out on working with the administration in ways that exist outside of the National Guard.

We know that this is not what the National Guard is used for. We also know that in the states that have utilized sending National Guard troops to D.C., Mississippi, for instance -- I have family in Mississippi -- Mississippi -- in Jackson, Mississippi, the state capital has a higher -- a much higher crime rate than D.C. does. So, if anybody needed the National Guard, based on the epidemiology that Trump is using, keep them in Mississippi.

I think that we need to refocus the effort, showcase why it's important to have reductions in crime, but also showcase how we get here, and be willing to work with Republicans on that and bring them to the table. But not in the sense of the National Guard, because there are ways to do it, scientific-based. We know that they work. It's one of the reasons why crime has gone down in Chicago, in Baltimore, in D.C., you name it, since the pandemic.

KEILAR: After 30 days, this federal takeover of D.C. police is going to turn into a pumpkin, without Congress extending the authorization, or authorizing an extension. What does it mean if Congress does go along with this? Do you expect, Ameshia, there's a stomach for it? What do you think?

CROSS: I don't think there's -- there's definitely not a stomach for it, amongst Democrats. I think that for Republicans, it's going to depend on what the going to depend on what the numbers look like. I will give Trump this. He is very strategic in his timing.

As we talked about, before the show came back on, one of the things that is recognized here in D.C., in a lot of major cities, is that the rise in crime, as well as the drop, is precipitated by young youth violence, for the most part, youth actors. School has started back. The reason why Trump created this messaging, around the time a week before school started back, was because at the end of the day, now these kids are in school, it was going to go down automatically.

Towards the end of the summer, in every major city in America, crime tends to go down. That is something that we've seen season after season, year after year. So, I think that he's going to use that as a means to showcase that his plan is working, irrespective to the fact that this is traditionally just how things work.

KEILAR: What do you think of this perhaps being longer-term?

FARAH GRIFFIN: Well, listen, it's a tough question for Congress. Because if you're a Republican in Congress? Of course you want to back the President's agenda, and you're going to get pressure to do that.

But it's never been a Republican or conservative position to say that the entire United States taxpayer should be paying to secure the streets of D.C. That's simply not the case. And using the National Guard to do it rather than local law enforcement goes against decades of what we argued when we were talking about, the responsibilities of our nation's capital versus the rest of the country. So, I think it's kind of a tough argument to have.

What I suspect is, when this -- when this -- the statute runs out, is that they're going to declare victory. They're going to talk about the number of arrests they were able to make. They're going to talk about certain pockets of the city they felt that they cleaned up. And then they're going to move on.

But this won't be the last time. I mean, we saw it in L.A., where the National Guard was deployed. There are going to be other major cities, where the White House decides that this is the time to use force.

And I would just remind folks, the National Guard, this is something they can do, it's something they legally can. But this is a force that is big, it is diverse, it is politically diverse as well. These are not people who raised their hands to serve because they wanted to police the streets of the United States. They would have gone into policing if that's what they wanted to do. This is not the best use.

We're in hurricane season. We're in a time when there are so many other things you could have our forces responding to, that is not policing the streets of D.C.

KEILAR: Yes, as you say, kids are back in school. So are the kids of these Guard members, and they're missing it.

CROSS: Yes.

KEILAR: Alyssa. Ameshia. Thank you so much for both of you being here tonight.

Right now, North Carolina is under a state of emergency, as the unusually large Hurricane Erin is lashing much of the East Coast. We're on the ground, next.

[21:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:45:00]

KEILAR: Breaking news. Hurricane Erin is still a strong Category 2 storm, but it could become more powerful as it churns along the East Coast, its outer bands causing dangerous swells along North Carolina's Outer Banks, as you see here, and those barrier islands could see waves of 20 feet or more, later tonight and into tomorrow. Officials say the storm is so large that it's stirring up dangerous rip currents along the coastline, all the way from Southern Florida to Maine.

For a closer look now at the forecast, we have CNN's Derek Van Dam with us now, from the CNN Weather Center.

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Brianna, as the sun set on Hurricane Erin, it's just astounding on visible satellite to see a storm of this size and magnitude just parked off the southeastern United States.

We know the core or the center of the storm, the strongest part of the hurricane, will stay offshore, but we're still going to feel tropical storm force impacts, especially for the coastal areas of North Carolina.

Looking at the Outer Banks, by tomorrow morning, roughly about 06:00 a.m., Erin will make its closest approach to the Eastern seaboard. That's when we expect the tropical storm force winds for the Outer Banks. It will coincide with the highest tides of the month.

And then, we see the conditions go downhill across Virginia, the coastal areas, into the Delmarva Peninsula, perhaps into southern coastal regions of New Jersey.

And as it tries to pull away from northern New England, Nantucket, Cape Cod, the coastal areas of Massachusetts will feel tropical storm force winds, early Friday morning.

Look at the official forecast track from the National Hurricane Center, potentially regaining major hurricane status overnight. We'll keep a close eye on that for sure. But we're splitting hairs here between a Cat 2 and a Cat 3. It's still churning up some big-time waves. We're talking nearly 20-foot seas, potentially, along the coastal areas of the Outer Banks. That's causing the overwash issues.

Of course, high tide at around 06:26, in the morning, near Cape Hatteras. So with that closest approach of the storm, we get the winds that are pushing off of the Atlantic, this could cause some serious problems. And of course, that 2,000 miles of coastal real estate along the Atlantic seaboard, rip currents will be a risk through the rest of the week.

Brianna.

KEILAR: And let's go now to Omar Jimenez. He is in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

Omar, tell us what the conditions are like, where you are.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, what's interesting -- you hear Derek talk about sort of this hurricane that's parked off the coast in the Atlantic.

Over here, for a lot of these people, it actually looks like a normal night. You see the pier festivities and rides still going on like normal.

But this is what officials are worried about here. You can actually see the intensity sort of pick up on the waves just behind me. We've been monitoring this all day, really.

And one of the reasons why -- well, of course, at this hour. But earlier today, there was no one in the water, because they weren't allowed to. That's because of the strength of the rip currents that forecasters have been looking at, over the course of this, and what Erin, of course, is bringing.

As powerful as these waves are, this is really expected to just be the beginning, here in Atlantic City. The peaks are expected to really pick up over the course of tomorrow here. That's when we could see waves up to 15 feet.

Of course, those rip current threats aren't really going anywhere. We're expecting to, of course, see some more coastal flooding as well. So, even though tonight feels relatively normal, for a lot of the people here, it really is just getting started up here, Brianna.

KEILAR: For now, I guess they will party until they can't party anymore.

Omar Jimenez, thank you so much for the update from Atlantic City.

He was heir to one of America's most famous political dynasties. Up next. A sneak peek at the final episode of the new CNN Original Series, "American Prince," the life and legacy of John F. Kennedy Jr.

[21:50:00]

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KEILAR: CNN's Original Series, "American Prince: JFK Jr." follows the story and lasting legacy of John F. Kennedy Jr.

This weekend, the final episode looks at the relentless media coverage, surrounding his marriage to Carolyn Bessette, who faced challenges adapting to her new life in the spotlight. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had left Calvin Klein, so she was at an inflection point in her own life, and trying to decide what she was going to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was hard for her to work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the business that she was in, you're dealing with people who, your job is to kind of put them at the front and center of every single conversation. And to have an employee working for you, who overshadows you, no matter who you are, is antithetical to the job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the first year, I was down at their place, and she must have given me 10 Prada suits and coats and everything. She's like, I'm never going to wear this. And I was like, I'll wear all of this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had left everything she knew up until that point in fashion, and she was just married and just not used to that level of scrutiny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carolyn was young and smart and ambitious and had a big brain, and I think really wanted to do things, and to kind of have a big life. And it's tough, when you go from that, to suddenly being overwhelmingly known for one thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just felt sometimes unbearable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Joining me now to discuss is longtime Washington Post contributor, Sally Quinn.

Sally, thank you so much for being with us to talk about this.

SALLY QUINN, WASHINGTON POST CONTRIBUTOR: Happy to be here.

[21:55:00]

KEILAR: There's still so much public fascination with both JFK Jr., and also Carolyn Bessette. Why has that been so persistent?

QUINN: I don't think it's that complicated. I think that people love people who are -- Clay Felker, the Editor of the New York Magazine, once said, People love to read about kings and queens. And they are kings and queens.

And there's so few times in this world that there's somebody emerges, who is so luminous, so gorgeous, so sort of out of this world, that it fascinates people, the kind of charisma and attraction. I mean, people have compared him to Princess Diana, and there was a lot of similarity in the kind of almost crazed adoration about the two of them.

But I think that it -- a lot of it, you can look at Greek mythology, and you see the Greek gods, because John Kennedy Jr. was a Greek god. And as we say now, but the Greek god Zeus was the king of all the gods. And John Kennedy Sr., his father was Zeus, and John Kennedy Jr. was Apollo, the most gorgeous of all the gods. And the gods were people who were immortal and powerful, but had the appearances and the emotions of humans.

So, I think that people put that mythological glance on them, and realized that they were -- they weren't -- they were human, but there was something beyond humanness about them.

KEILAR: And they were referred to, right, as America's royal family. And it is such an interesting parallel, because you see some of the difficulty too, of Carolyn Bessette sort of adapting to that lifestyle, is something that you do see of someone adapting to a royal lifestyle.

But I wonder, growing up in that sort of almost royal glare, how did that shape JFK Jr.'s life?

QUINN: Well, that's all he ever knew. And when I watched pictures of him, and then and now, and watch this series, he seems very comfortable with it. He seems very much, very comfortable in his own skin.

I don't think that he hated the publicity or the paparazzi, the way she did. I think he was used to it. It was what he understood. And none of the pictures, you don't see him ever getting upset with the press or anything. He loved the press, and his father did too.

His father just loved journalists. My husband, Ben Bradlee, was Editor to The Washington Post, and was one of Jack Kennedy's closest friends when they were in the White House. And Jack Kennedy said that he loved Ben coming over and giving him all the gossip, what the journalists were saying. But he said that he wanted to go into publishing. He wanted to be a newspaper publisher, after he left the presidency. And I'm sure that John Jr. heard that too. I think that may have been one of the reasons that he wanted to start a magazine.

KEILAR: What do you think is the lasting impact of JFK Jr., culturally and across media?

QUINN: Well, it's still with us today, and it will be. It's like King Arthur and Guinevere. I don't think that's -- the Kennedy Camelot myth is never going to die. There are moments in and out. Sometimes, Kennedy books do well, sometimes they don't. But I think we're in a really heated moment with the Kennedys.

And John and Carolyn were the beautiful people and -- but they also are suffering. One of the things about John Kennedy Jr. is that his whole life, the Kennedys' whole lives are just, they're basically drowning in grief. It's just one horrible thing after the other happens to them, and they're just grieving always. And I don't think you can discount that when you look at them and see how they -- how they comport themselves. I thought he was -- handled his life very gracefully. I think he was smart and amusing.

And one night, at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, my husband and I were seated. I don't know whether you've ever been in that room, this horrible Hilton Hotel ballroom. But on there -- on the outskirts, the last row, are all the way around, where you can get seated, the worst seats in the house, you can't see anything, can't hear anything. And we were seated at one table, and John Kennedy Jr. was at the next table. And he got up, and he came over, and patted Ben on the shoulder, and he said, Oh, I'm glad to see, you also made it in Siberia. But you got the feeling that he wasn't used to being seated in Siberia.

KEILAR: No, certainly not.

[22:00:00]

Sally, it is great to speak with you about this. Thank you so much.

QUINN: Thank you.

KEILAR: And the finale of "American Prince: JFK Jr." airs this Saturday night, at 09:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

And thank you so much for joining us.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.