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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Epstein Survivors To Trump & Congress: Release The Files; Trump Floats Sending Troops To New Orleans For Crime Crackdown; WSJ: Trump Amasses $5 Billion Crypto Fortune, Exceeding Wealth In Property. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 03, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --and what are the odds of winning?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: What are the odds of winning? They're really bad, they're really bad, and they've gotten worse over time. Back in 1992, it was one in 55 million. Then, one in 195 million. And now, one in 292 million.
COOPER: Wow.
ENTEN: That is because they added more balls to the equation, which, of course, lowers the chance of winning, but then, of course, also raises the jackpots, because you go on and on and on with nobody actually winning.
COOPER: Harry Enten, thanks very much. Did you -- do you have some tickets?
ENTEN: I got two for us.
COOPER: Oh, yes, OK, right. Everybody, you heard him. He'll deny it later.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: A Jeffrey Epstein survivor says it's not a hoax. And minutes later, President Trump calls it one.
Tonight, I'll speak with the two congressmen who are forcing and fighting to force the Justice Department, to release everything they have on the Jeffrey Epstein investigation.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
A dramatic split-screen played out here, in Washington today, where at the Capitol, women banded together, and called for justice, after being attacked by a pedophile who for decades evaded accountability.
Just down Pennsylvania Avenue, minutes after those calls happened, the President of the United States dismissed them. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY ROBSON (ph), EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: This is not a hoax. We are real human beings. This is real trauma.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is a Democrat hoax that never ends.
MARINA LACERDA (ph), EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Listen to us. This is not a hoax.
TRUMP: It's really a Democrat hoax.
ROBSON (ph): I would like Donald J. Trump and every person in America and around the world to humanize us, to see us for who we are and to hear us for what we have to say. There is no hoax.
LACERDA (ph): We are tired of looking at the news and seeing Jeffrey Epstein's name and saying that this is a hoax.
TRUMP: We're having the most successful eight months of any president ever, and that's what I want to talk about. That's what we should be talking about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But then why not--
TRUMP: Not the Epstein hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President there, calling it a hoax, moments after the women who survived Jeffrey Epstein's abuse said it wasn't. It was a crowd today, so large here in Washington, that it overtook the steps of the Capitol, filled with women whose lives were forever impacted by the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein.
They stood together, as a visible reminder, to those in power, that while they are grown women now, they were just children, and they were preyed upon by a rich and powerful predator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LACERDA (ph): From 14- to 17-years-old, I went and worked for Jeffrey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was 16-years-old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was only 14-years-old.
ROBSON (ph): I was a 16-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was abused by Jeffrey Epstein when I was 14- years-old.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The pain that you heard this morning, from many of those women, who talked about what happened to them, when they were just children, is now turning into a political challenge for the President, one that he and the House Speaker hoped would subside when Congress was home for the summer, and away from Washington.
But now Congress is back, recess is over, and the White House is finding itself actively trying to stop Republicans, here in Washington, from succeeding at forcing the Justice Department to release all of the files it has, related to Jeffrey Epstein.
The President today insisted that no matter what comes out, he believes it will never be enough for some of these Republicans, like Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: From what I understand, I could check, but from what I understand, thousands of pages of documents have been given. But it's really a Democrat hoax, because they're trying to get people to talk about something that's totally irrelevant to the success that we've had as a nation since I've been President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The White House has made the fight in Congress a personal one.
But today, it was the women who lived this nightmare, offering their personal pleas to the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANOUSKA DE GEORGIOU, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: President Trump, you have so much influence and power in this situation. Please use that influence and power to help us.
ROBSON (ph): I would like Donald J. Trump and every person in America and around the world to humanize us, to see us for who we are and to hear us for what we have to say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My sources tonight are the co-authors of the petition that the President and Speaker are not calling for its passage.
Democratic congressman, Ro Khanna of California.
And Republican congressman, Thomas Massie of Kentucky.
And thank you both for being here.
Congressman Massie, let me start with you, because obviously you've been the focus of the White House's ire as you -- as you are well- aware. But when you hear those women today, on Capitol Hill, and then you hear what the President has to say, who do you think has more sway with your Republican colleagues? Those women? Or the President?
[21:05:00]
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Well, with my Republican constituents, those women have the most credibility. And I think it's disrespectful to call it a hoax. This is not a hoax, not at all. And it's not going to go away.
If the President wants to highlight the things that he is trying to do, in the White House, then he should just call for the vote and release all of these files, and then he can move on. But they want to drag this out.
COLLINS: Congressman Khanna, just on those women for a moment. I mean, that was such a striking show of force, from all of them, today. What was it like for you to hear from them?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I was just moved on a human level. It really, for me, was totally not about politics. I was standing a few feet away from them, while they were speaking out. Almost half of them were in tears. They were talking about being raped at the age of 13 or 14. They were talking about being forced to get other high school and junior high school friends of theirs, knowing that they were going to face sexual assault. It was heartbreaking.
And frankly, they are bringing this country together. They are bringing people, whether they're progressive, independents, moderates, MAGA supporters, together, to say, We need to release these files, we need justice for the rich and powerful men who abuse them. And this is not about politics. This is about morality.
COLLINS: Congressman Massie, why do you think those stories -- I mean, they don't seem to be -- but why do you think that they're not resonating with the White House?
MASSIE: Well, they're resonating with the public in my district and all across the country.
And in fact, they were resonating in the White House, nine months ago, when the Attorney General said they would release the files, when the Vice President said they would release the files, when the FBI Director said they would release the files, when Trump's own children said that these files needed to be released.
Why the 180-degree turn here from the administration? I think there are rich and powerful people, who have always been beyond the reach of the law, or thought that they were, who want to remain there. And they're donors. They are donors to Republicans and Democrats, and they -- we need to tell them, I'm sorry, you are going to be accountable to the law.
COLLINS: Well, actually, Congressman Massie, can I ask you about that? Because you're talking about people who don't maybe want their names out there associated with Jeffrey Epstein.
These women today, one thing that they said that they are willing to do, if these documents don't get released, is compile their own, basically, list of people around Jeffrey Epstein, and release that. You actually said tonight that you have a plan to potentially help them with that.
MASSIE: Yes. Yes. So, the survivors said that they had decided to compile their own list. But the reality is, if they try to release that list, they're going to be sued into homelessness. They will be attacked. They will have death threats.
And so, what my colleague, Marjorie Taylor Greene, volunteered to do, and I've volunteered to do as well, is to read that list, on the floor of the House of Representatives. Because, our Founders put into the Constitution, speech or debate immunity, which says that we can't be prosecuted for what we say on the floor of the House. So, we're willing to help those survivors get those names out there.
And as my colleague, Ro Khanna, has said, we trust the public to determine who were donors to the Epstein scholarship fund, and who were users of the women who were exposed to sexual abuse, to differentiate between those two groups of people.
COLLINS: Congressman Khanna, do you support that, reading the names from these women, on the House floor?
KHANNA: I do, but I don't think it needs to come to that.
MASSIE: Yes.
KHANNA: I mean, they shouldn't be burned to have to come up with the list.
One of the things that struck me is some of the survivors said that they themselves had not seen the files. One person pleaded with America, saying she wants to try to understand her own memories, and she wants to see these files, to be able to piece that together.
Look, this was such an emotional moment that after I spoke after the survivors, Marjorie Taylor Greene came over and gave me a hug. I mean, people should have seen the humanity there.
And I don't know, after hearing those women, why we just don't release the files? I mean, it actually would make the President look good. He could come out and say, No other president has released the files, I'm releasing the files.
My focus, right now, and I think anyone who was at that press conference, is, how do we get justice and closure for those survivors?
COLLINS: Well, and Speaker Johnson met with some of these survivors, yesterday, in an hours-long meeting, some of their family members as well. He still does not support your discharge petition. He's saying that actually -- Congressman Massie, he called it, inartfully written, I believe, was his -- inartfully drafted.
[21:10:00]
And Chairman Comer said that it would basically that -- that their investigation, they're doing, is four to five steps ahead of where this would put you. What is your response to that?
MASSIE: Well, I support everything that Chairman Comer is doing. The problem is the DOJ is curating everything that they send to the Oversight Committee.
So, if you drill down into those documents that the Oversight Committee put on their website, you can see that they've been redacted. All of the flight logs have been redacted, and they're running the risk of seeing what they saw with Pam Bondi's binders, that everything that's been released is the same thing that's already been released.
And in response to the Speaker's accusation, that our resolution was inartfully drafted? Well, his placebo resolution, which has no teeth to it, lifted entirely three pages from our own resolution. I mean, my staff wrote that, and they were very honored to see that the Speaker used their exact language in his resolution.
KHANNA: Kaitlan, isn't the only thing that should matter here, also what the survivors think? They were asked, what did they support? And they said, they supported the Oversight investigation, but they support the Massie-Khanna bill. And they were asked, point-blank, about that, and all of them raised their hands, and that should be what the country listens to. I mean, their lawyers have read it, they have read it, and they're saying that's what they want.
COLLINS: Have you heard if what those survivors said today changed any other House Republicans' minds? Has anyone else said that they are willing to sign on to this?
MASSIE: Well, I've talked to a few of them, and they were compelled in our direction. But there's an immense pressure campaign, from the White House, on Republican members right now.
So, I really think you got to give some credit to the three Republican women, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, and Nancy Mace, who, in spite of all the threats from the White House, which are still continuing, went and did the right thing. They're standing up for women by standing up for this resolution.
COLLINS: What do those threats look like? What kind of pressure campaign are we talking about here?
MASSIE: Well, I'm feeling it myself, in my own district. There's been $2.5 million of ads run against me by three billionaires, who are mega donors to the Republican Party, and one of them is actually, I'm not going to say on Epstein's list, but he's in Epstein's black book. So, I've been taking the brunt of that myself. I think what's being run against me is a threat to other Republicans, to try to keep them from doing what I'm doing.
COLLINS: And are you worried that it's going to be successful here?
MASSIE: Well, I've opposed the President before, and he said I should be thrown out of the GOP. And in that race, I got 81 percent of the vote. So, in some sense, I have the Trump antibodies, but I'm definitely going to get a booster shot here.
COLLINS: Well, the White House obviously has been pushing back on that, and pushing on that very strongly.
But can I just ask both of you, when Trump's calling it a hoax? One thing he said today, Congressman Khanna, he said that no matter what is released, nothing will ever be enough, basically, sufficient for people, like the two of you. What do you say to that?
KHANNA: Again, this is not about the two of us. This is about the survivors, and I think they made clear what they want.
They want the files released, with the financial information, with the witness memos, with an understanding of who covered up for Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell. I mean, there were rich and powerful people, who knew that Epstein was raping and abusing young girls, and said nothing. And there were rich and powerful people, who prevented him from being prosecuted. And then, there were rich and powerful people, who were -- got some of these survivors farmed out to them. That's what they said. They want that exposed, and they want accountability.
And I just want to say about Thomas Massie. Look, he's a Profile in Courage. I hope I don't hurt him in his primary by saying that. But this is about big money. It's about big money that denied justice for the survivors. It's about big money that's stopping these Epstein files to be released. And it's big money that's threatening people like Thomas Massie, or any person, or any Republican, who's willing to sign that discharge petition.
COLLINS: Can I ask you, Congressman Khanna, do you believe that this effort is losing steam, as some people have suggested tonight?
KHANNA: No, we -- I'm actually confident we're going to get to 218. I don't want to go into all the strategy, because when we've been more transparent about it, it's just led to a Trump response. But we have a plan. I'm very, very confident that we're going to get there.
MASSIE: Yes, I think--
COLLINS: And Congressman Massie, you too?
MASSIE: Yes, I'm very confident.
What I confided to one of the White House individuals, who's working against me, right now, I said, You know, my mistake was getting 12 Republican co-sponsors on this bill before we were eligible to get signatures, because I just telegraphed to you the 12 people that you needed to whip. And he kind of laughed, and he said, Yes.
[21:15:00]
But we're going to get to 218. This is going to happen within a few weeks. And I think they're going to panic here. There's going to be a lot of pressure, again, on the three women who have co-sponsored this, on the Republican side, to take their names off. But I think they're going to stay strong. COLLINS: Your colleague, Congressman Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene suggested today that she said to President Trump that he should invite and host the survivors in the Oval Office. Do you agree with that?
MASSIE: Yes, and the survivors are willing to meet President Trump as well. And I think, that would be good for President Trump, to humanize these people, so that they -- they can see this -- he can see the survivors and know that this is not a hoax.
COLLINS: Congressmen Thomas Massie and Ro Khanna, an unlikely duo, but really appreciate your time tonight. Thanks for joining us.
KHANNA: Thank you.
MASSIE: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And just before we came on the air tonight, I had the chance to speak with one of the survivors, who was at the Capitol today, in that group of women that you saw.
Marijke Chartouni was 20-years-old, when she says she was sexually assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein, and she says the government has failed the survivors.
I asked her about those comments today, from the President, and this idea of a potential meeting with him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: The President was weighing in from the White House, just as we were hearing from, from you and other survivors on the Hill today, and he was calling it a Democratic hoax.
MARIJKE CHARTOUNI, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Are we a hoax? Do we look like a hoax? Were all of us a hoax? I don't think so. I mean, no.
COLLINS: Some lawmakers have said that maybe a meeting with the President would be helpful, if he sat down with survivors. Is that something that you would be willing to do?
CHARTOUNI: Well, he's never asked us. It doesn't seem like he really, even considers us, or has any regard for us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Thanks to Marijke Chartouni, one of the survivors, having their voices heard, here today in Washington, loud and clear.
Today, at the White House, we also heard from President Trump weighing in on suggesting another city, where he may send in federal troops, another blue city, but this time, it's in a red state with a friendly governor. We'll tell you which one, and what could happen, ahead.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is now suggesting he might deploy federal troops to a friendlier state, after facing fierce pushback from officials, in places like Illinois and California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're making a determination now. Do we go to Chicago? Or do we go to a place like New Orleans, where we have a great governor, Jeff Landry, who wants us to come in.
We're going to be going to maybe Louisiana, and you have New Orleans, which has a crime problem. We'll straighten that out in about two weeks. It will take us two weeks. Easier than D.C.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And as the President is weighing surging federal law enforcement into New Orleans, here are some numbers to keep in mind tonight. According to that city's police department, overall crime in New Orleans is down about 22 percent compared to this time last year. Murders are down 21 percent. Stabbing's up about 6 percent.
And shortly after those comments by the President today, in the Oval Office, we heard from the Republican governor of Louisiana, Jeff Landry, who celebrated the announcement, and said, quote, We will take his "help from New Orleans to Shreveport."
My source tonight is from another major city that the President has been eyeing, when it comes to sending in federal law enforcement. Philadelphia District Attorney, Larry Krasner, is here now.
And it's great to have you, sir.
Because obviously, unlike Chicago, or Baltimore, or L.A., New Orleans is a Democratic city, but it's in a red state with a governor, who says he's welcoming the President's suggestion here. I wonder, what you think this looks like, if the White House is not facing -- or is facing little to no resistance from state officials on their next move?
LARRY KRASNER, (D) PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, let's not miss the first thing he said, Kaitlan (inaudible) Trump chickens out. This is a lesson to all the major cities, including ours. Stand up. He chickens out. And I'm not just talking to politicians.
Here's the thing. This is a cellphone. There are 1.6 million in Philly. There are about twice that in Chicago, 10 million in Chicagoland. You bring this, you bring this light, you video what he is doing in your city, and you make it available on social media. He cannot erase that history. He cannot deny that evidence, or at least it cannot be denied in a court of law, because he denies everything.
This is what happens when Pritzker stands up. This is what happens when Brandon Johnson, the Mayor of Chicago, a Profile in Courage, stands up. You bring the light, and the vampires run away. COLLINS: Yes, we heard today, on that front, from the Vice President JD Vance. And he was asked about the plans for Chicago, and if it's imminent. And he said that there are no immediate plans to send in the National Guard.
Are you saying that you think that President has backed off of those plans, because of the resistance from people like Governor Pritzker?
KRASNER: Well, Kaitlan, I do a really good imitation of a chicken. If you'd like to hear it, I can do it. But I'll say it again. T-A-C-O. Trump Always Chickens Out.
[21:25:00]
What you're hearing is JD Vance chicken out for him, because the Governor stood up, because the Mayor stood up, because, most importantly, the residents of the City of Chicago know that they are in good hands, and they're moving in the right direction, and they should stand up to a compulsive liar, to a 34-time convicted felon, to a man who loves crime. He doesn't hate it, he loves it, because it serves his purpose of trying to overthrow the government of the United States.
I hate to be so blunt, but somebody's got to say the truth. And there are a lot of people, like Brandon Johnson, like Pritzker, who are standing up, and saying the truth.
And what you are seeing is this. You ready for the chicken imitation?
(CHICKEN CLUCKING IMITATION)
COLLINS: Well, the White House might hear that and say, That didn't happen with Los Angeles, or with Washington, D.C.
And you're praising how Governor Pritzker and Mayor Johnson have handled this.
What about D.C. Mayor, Mayor Muriel Bowser, and her effort, where she's said basically that she would work with them, when it comes to what we're seeing playing out in the nation's capital?
KRASNER: D.C. is not a state. It's in a completely different position, legally. I can only assume the Mayor of D.C. is playing for the long game. That doesn't apply here. State law, the United States Constitution, say certain things.
And I can tell you this. On behalf of Philadelphia (inaudible) they're going to find out, because all of these phones (inaudible) we're going to record it, we're going to hold it, we're going to analyze it. And if it is illegal, there will be a consequence.
COLLINS: Philadelphia's District Attorney, Larry Krasner, thank you for joining us tonight, sir.
KRASNER: Thank you, Kaitlan. COLLINS: And when it comes to the Trump family and their finances, they just got a lot wealthier tonight. What's behind this? It is crypto.
Kara Swisher is going to be here to break it all down with us, and what could happen, going forward, next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump's second son, Eric Trump, entered a billionaire territory today, at least on paper, that is. According to Forbes tonight, his stake in cryptocurrency mining company ballooned to $950 million, when it launched on the NASDAQ this morning.
It was only Monday, when another crypto firm that was co-founded by President Trump, his Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, and their sons, began trading a new digital asset that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars.
The Wall Street Journal estimated earlier this week that the Trump family has amassed as much as $5 billion in crypto, meaning their wealth in the digital currency could be more -- could be worth more than what they own in real estate, which is, of course, how the Trump family first earned its fortune.
My source tonight is the journalist, the tech journalist, Kara Swisher.
And Kara, obviously, when you look at this, net worth is hard to track, one, much less with the cryptocurrencies, two.
KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "ON WITH KARA SWISHER" & "PIVOT", CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Correct.
COLLINS: But I wonder what you make of, just what we've seen playing out, and what people should take away from this?
SWISHER: Well, nice work, if you can get it, and especially if you're in charge of the government that's pushing cyber currency, and especially crypto, and has removed all barriers. The Biden administration was probably too put the kibosh on it, and that's one of the reasons, say, Sherrod Brown lost in -- lost in his area.
And so, what they're doing is they're creating a regulatory scheme work that's positive for the crypto industry to grow, and then the Trump family itself is doing a variety of things.
Today was a thing called corporate treasury strategy, where they collect Bitcoin and then they mine it, which is huge amounts of energy, and then they -- they're hoping it'll go up. It's really speculation, because it doesn't make anything or do anything or have any efficacy in the world. So, it's currency speculation, really.
And then they're doing things like the tokens, which was this World Financial -- Liberty Financial, whatever, token that they're doing. And they make money on owning the token, and then on the fees of the trading. That's where the real money is, because you never know where the tokens are going to be. But they bank that money pretty quickly on the fees.
And then, there's all manner of things. And they're doing it with, say, the Winklevoss twins, who were famous for Facebook. They're doing it with all kinds of different people, including Witkoff, the son. So, it's a way to make money very quickly.
COLLINS: Well, and I guess, the question is, how you know if the value is real, and what's actually there? I mean, crypto is such a new industry that--
SWISHER: Right.
COLLINS: --has been burgeoning for over a decade, two decades. But now, it seems to be gaining a new foothold because of the way that the White House is approaching it.
SWISHER: Well, it could be like tulips, like and then it won't be worth something or not. It's not -- it's -- some of these are backed by dollars, some of these are backed -- but there's speculative currencies, is what's happening. They don't -- they're not used for anything in the world. Maybe blockchain will be, maybe some crypto will be, but it's an investment vehicle, essentially, and that's what they're doing.
And so, they're taking advantage of this -- the release of strictures on the crypto industry, by the Trump administration, and then with their other hand, they're grabbing for what they can get, as much as they can. Of course, everyone wants to do business with the -- with the two sons, because of the link with the father. And it's kind of funny, when they gave Hunter Biden such a hard time of trading influence. But this is the same thing.
COLLINS: And selling his artwork and whatnot.
SWISHER: Right.
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: I think about that, because obviously with this, one thing we hear from the White House is, Trump didn't have to run. He was so wealthy before. But he has become incredibly wealthy, since being in office, and so have his children.
SWISHER: This is real wealth, yes.
COLLINS: But being in Saudi Arabia, during that investment forum, thinking about those relationships, obviously the ones that Steve Witkoff has, as the Middle East envoy as well here.
SWISHER: Right. That's right. They're trading on their influence. Except, before, it was sort of quaint, what they were doing that, if the son of the President tries to do this, as in Hunter Biden, and he didn't think big enough.
This group is in front of like tariff deals, they go to the country and make some other deal, a hotel deal, or whatever it happens to be. And then how Trump reacts on tariffs could be linked to it. But you can't ever prove it. It's kind of explicit corruption, in plain sight.
And so, the question is, are these things worth anything? They're worth what people will pay for them, especially some of these investors who are speculative. And some -- you know, and some of them are just a joke. Some of these coins are just a joke. But a lot of -- most people have lost value by buying into the most regular investors, or the MAGA groups that buy into it have not made money.
And then some people, like Gavin Newsom is releasing a coin now, after he does the university, Gavin university, but he's releasing one too.
COLLINS: Basically making fun of Trump.
SWISHER: He is, but he might make money at it. It actually might do well, it might become a speculative instrument that people use. Whatever people want to buy, they will buy, including meme stocks like AMC and many others. I mean, it's just what people will pay for.
COLLINS: Can I ask you about the--
SWISHER: Sure.
COLLINS: --just given you cover all these figures. The first lady is hosting an event on AI, tomorrow, at the White House.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: And we're hearing tonight that they are going to be holding an event after that event, at the Rose Garden, which, for people who have not been paying attention, has been totally renovated and under construction--
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: --and made in Trump's likeness, in terms of Mar-a-Lago.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: The Hill is reporting tonight that basically the guestlist looks like a lot of the tech CEOs who were at the inauguration--
SWISHER: Right.
COLLINS: --that you saw sitting around Trump. Mark Zuckerberg, Tim Cook, Sam Altman, a lot of these figures.
SWISHER: Sure.
COLLINS: What are you going to be watching for in that, tomorrow?
SWISHER: Their continued acquiescence to Trump. I mean, obviously, Tim giving the gold statue was one of those, going to the inauguration, showing up.
They need to get while the getting is good. In their case, it's AI. They want to sort of lead in the AI business, and it's important to them to do that. And so, if they have to do this, if they have to give him a gold statue, if they have to show off on this new patio? I mean, I hope they wear their Cloud sneakers, because I hear it's a lot of stone, marble. But, they'll do it. And that's what -- they're there for shareholders. I don't know what -- whatever their opinion may be, they're keeping it to themselves.
And again, this is a get while the getting is good kind of situation. And if I were a CEO, I might do it.
I wouldn't do it. Are you kidding?
COLLINS: Let's be--
SWISHER: I was not invited to the AI thing, even though I know quite a bit about AI.
COLLINS: I like how you said you might do it.
SWISHER: Ahh, I wouldn't--
COLLINS: When we both know the answer to that.
(CROSSTALK)
SWISHER: I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.
COLLINS: Kara Swisher, always great to have you, especially on set.
SWISHER: Thank you. Thanks.
COLLINS: Thank you so much.
SWISHER: Thanks.
COLLINS: Also, tonight, we are hearing from President Trump, and reports that he is wading into the New York mayoral race, in a real way, maybe offering one of the candidates, a job in his administration, so he will exit the race?
My source is the former Mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emanuel. He'll be here on set, next.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, CNN has learned that aides to President Trump have floated the idea of offering the New York City Mayor, Eric Adams, a job inside the Trump administration, in order to clear the field ahead of the city's upcoming mayoral election, this November.
Two sources that are familiar with the conversation tell CNN, the administration's goal would be to block the Democratic nominee, Zohran Mamdani, from winning, by presenting a narrower ballot, favorable to the former New York Governor, Andrew Cuomo, who himself is running as an Independent, after he lost to Mamdani in the Democratic primary.
The New York Times is first to report on these discussions, which Mayor Adams then forcefully denied afterward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D-NYC, NY): All of these other rumors, I don't know about. I have a job. I'm running for my reelection, and I'm still doing that, and I'm looking forward to getting reelected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight served as President Obama's White House Chief of Staff, and the former Mayor of Chicago, and many other titles. Rahm Emanuel is here.
We've asked the White House about this. And someone from the Cuomo campaign did not comment. Would you be surprised, though, if this is a tactic the White House is taking here?
RAHM EMANUEL, OBAMA WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF, FORMER MAYOR OF CHICAGO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: No, I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't think it's going to turn out the way they want it. I think--
COLLINS: Why not?
EMANUEL: Oh, I think this would be a Faustian bargain, and I think the people in New York would react negatively to it, and I think it's going to actually boomerang on those who are conspired to it.
Adams didn't look like he would stay (ph). But, you know, I'm from Chicago. I have a pretty high threshold about job in politics. This is like nothing I've ever seen. And I think with everything going on the world, I'm a little surprised, President's really that concerned about that.
COLLINS: I mean, it is, I mean--
EMANUEL: And not (ph) with the election that is.
COLLINS: He obviously is from there--
EMANUEL: Right.
COLLINS: --and spent decades there, voting in this, and has weighed in on this race a lot. But what does it say to you about how the White House sees Zohran Mamdani, if this is true?
EMANUEL: Well, I think, they see, obviously, the message, anything that reinforces the point about affordability and the cost of living. That's what he ran on. I have a different view about how to solve it. But the core crux of the argument, no different than what the person just won in Iowa special election, which flipped 22 points from what Donald Trump did, because it was about affordability, and that's the core message.
I just came out of Virginia today. Everybody's talking about home ownership, the inability to pay their utility bills, the cost of living, and I think they're scared of that. And the White--
COLLINS: Yes.
EMANUEL: Let me say this. The White House should be scared. That's why they're doing redistricting, because they know, in fact, they're running scared, because they know the American people think they haven't actually kept their promise about affordability, and that's what they're scared of.
COLLINS: Which is something that, for as much as we talk about immigration and other matters, that was an everyday issue, on the campaign trail, for Donald Trump.
EMANUEL: No, this was all going to be solved in one day. And already, the employment numbers are bad. Look at manufacturing, and construction, employment is down.
[21:45:00]
It's actually -- and he is worried about -- this is not a confident White House. This is a confidence -- a White House that's running scared. And now they're talking about how to fix up the messaging around, quote-unquote, the one big, beautiful bill. You can't put lipstick on a pig on this one.
COLLINS: House Speaker Mike Johnson was saying that they're not basically trying to rebrand, but by calling it a different name than what they've been calling it for months.
EMANUEL: Nobody's running on it. I'll put money today. Nobody is going to run on the fact that they cut health care, and gave a tax cut for the wealthy. Nobody is going to run on the fact that they actually cut supply of energy, and your utility bill is going up. That is what's going to be basically a noose around their neck on this one, and they know it.
Otherwise, you would actually not have to do redistricting. Why are they doing redistricting mid-cycle? Because they know if -- the voters will issue a judgment. Remember, these midterm elections are a referendum, and a verdict on the incumbent.
I just went and worked on a congressional -- I saw a congressional race. I saw the Speaker race, the governor's race in Virginia. That is an election, you know, and there's different polling about how significant the gubernatorial candidate Abigail is up, and also about the Speaker's races across the state, they are doing extremely well. Turnout among Democrats is high. Independents are breaking with Democrats, because there's a rejection of what the President has offered. I mean, if you look at what's going on in the country, I kind of look at this, I mean, he's got Americans fighting Americans about National Guard in cities. And yet, our adversaries, overseas, are united against the United States because of Donald Trump.
The only thing Donald Trump was upset about was that he wasn't with all of his buddies over in Beijing. But he's united them there, and that's a real problem. He's not--
COLLINS: What did you make of that today? Because you're talking about this massive military parade, we saw last night.
EMANUEL: Yes.
COLLINS: While we were on air, last night, Trump was clearly watching the parade, because he accused China, Russia, North Korea, of conspiring against the U.S. And then today, he said basically that they did that parade so he would be watching and tuning in.
EMANUEL: Well, I think that's a little self-aggrandizing on him.
I think the bigger problem is six administrations, Democrats, Republicans, have worked to bring India at least closer to the American orbit, and been successful of that effort, Democrats, Republicans, and all parties, national securities.
And then, because of a peak of ego, and because also what his son and Witkoff's son is doing in Pakistan, we're throwing away our national security interests for money and for ego. And this is really dangerous and reckless. And you don't hear a sound from the Cabinet. Sounds like a bunch of trained seals. And the U.S. Senate have lost all ability to articulate anything on national security.
COLLINS: Ambassador Rahm Emanuel, as always, thanks for joining us.
EMANUEL: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next here, tonight, we're going to go to Florida, where the Surgeon General there, who is a known vaccine skeptic and critic, says that he plans to end all vaccine mandates in the state. That includes ones for school children.
My source tonight is CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, with his view.
[21:50:00]
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COLLINS: Tonight, Florida has moved to become the first state in the nation to undo decades of public health policy, as the State's Surgeon General announced plans to eliminate all childhood vaccine mandates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH LADAPO, FLORIDA SURGEON GENERAL: The Florida Department of Health, in partnership with the Governor, is going to be working to end all vaccine mandates in Florida law.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
LADAPO: All of them. All of them.
Every last one of them, every last one of them, is wrong and drips with disdain and -- and slavery. OK? Who am I, as a government, or anyone else, or who am I, as a man standing here now, to tell you what you should put in your body?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He didn't expand on what he meant by that slavery comment there.
But this is all coming, as also here in Washington, the Health secretary, RFK Jr., is set to testify, on Capitol Hill, tomorrow, as leadership and his leadership of HHS, has come under intense scrutiny, in recent days, after he ousted the recently-confirmed CDC Director, after just weeks on the job, after she reportedly refused to bend to pressure to sign off on potential new vaccine restrictions.
My source tonight is CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, whose new book is called, "It Doesn't Have to Hurt: Your Smart Guide to a Pain-Free Life."
And Sanjay, I want to talk about your book. But on this announcement today--
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
COLLINS: --obviously, this is something that all parents are used to, teachers as well as when students are coming into these schools. What impact would removing vaccine mandates for school children have?
GUPTA: Well, I think it's going to depend on how many parents still continue to get their kids vaccinated.
I mean, by the way, the slavery comment, I mean, I think the rhetoric has been dialed up a whole another notch here. I'm not even sure what that meant.
But I think if you're asking what is the data on the effectiveness of vaccines, overall? There's good data on this. And you can look back over 30 years, and sort of ask the questions, how many people -- how many illnesses have been prevented? How many hospitalizations have been prevented? How many lives have been saved? And you're talking hundreds of millions, 508 million cases of illness prevented, over a million deaths prevented, by these vaccines, over the last 30 years. So, it's significant, Kaitlan.
But at the same time, you're hearing a lot of misinformation. And to give you an example, because people throw around the term, misinformation, a lot, but this simple question. Is the measles vaccine worse than getting measles itself? A year ago, a certain percentage, around 18 percent of people had heard that to be the case. Fast-forward now to this year, and it's 33 percent.
COLLINS: Wow.
GUPTA: So, a third of people have heard at some point that the vaccine is worse than the illness itself. So, this is part of the problem, and I think this is what's driving it.
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: Well, I mean, and that must really worry people with medical degrees, like you, or just anyone in public health to see that, to see how much--
GUPTA: Yes.
COLLINS: --that has changed in just one year.
And I think also a question of, if these vaccine mandates aren't there for school children, are there diseases and conditions that you're worried about could -- could proliferate, like what we've seen with measles itself?
GUPTA: Yes, I mean, I think there are so many vaccine preventable illnesses now. I mean, that's why we have more vaccines. People always say, Well, there's so many more vaccines. Right, because we figured out how to vaccinate and prevent a lot more illnesses than we did decades ago.
But I think measles was a big one. I mean, as you know, it was considered eliminated in this country, back around the year, 2000. And we saw a significant outbreak. And as school starts again, we'll probably see significant outbreaks of measles again, because the rates of vaccination have gone down. Polio, it's another one that we don't talk about or think about much in the United States, but we could see cases of polio, if people aren't getting vaccinated.
So, I think all of them are concerning. But those are two in particular that I think if we start to see significant outbreaks of that, that would be a huge step backwards. We spend $4 trillion a year on health care in this country, and we'd be taking a huge step backwards if we saw those vaccine-preventable diseases return.
COLLINS: Yes, we've heard from Republicans, like Mitch McConnell, talking about--
GUPTA: Yes.
COLLINS: --his own personal experience of what that was -- what that was like.
Sanjay, as we -- obviously, this is something that Secretary Kennedy will likely get questioned about tomorrow.
GUPTA: Right. COLLINS: Another thing that he's pledged to focus on is the opioid epidemic, which, as everyone knows, has taken hundreds of thousands of lives, in the U.S., over the last two decades. And during the worst of this crisis, there were a lot of doctors using opioids for just about any kind of pain.
I know you recently spent time, in the emergency room, of Brooklyn's biggest hospital, to see what they are doing differently now in 2025. I want people to see some of what you saw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (on camera): Is opioids still sort of the therapy of choice?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Opioids is one of our therapies. But we take a lot of pride here in offering a wide variety of pain modalities.
GUPTA (voice-over): It's called opioid optimization, and it's pioneering work designed by this man.
DR. SERGEY MOTOV, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN AND RESEARCH DIRECTOR AT MAIMONIDES MEDICAL CENTER: Did you fall at all?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Sergey Motov, an Emergency Medicine Physician and Research Director at Maimonides.
MOTOV: We decided to use non-opioid analgesia as a primary analgesic of choice, obviously, after patients' agreement, and resort to opioids only as a rescue.
GUPTA (voice-over): That's right. Opioids as the last resort for pain instead of the first. It's standard operating procedure here now, and they have found most of their patients are quite satisfied.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: So, how -- what are these modalities? How are they treating it, if they're not using opioids?
GUPTA: A lot of them are modalities you've heard of, but just weren't getting widely used in emergency room settings, because opioids were so easy to use. I mean, that was the therapy of choice for just about anything, as you mentioned.
A couple of big ones, nerve blocks. So, there was a 76-year-old guy who came in with a hip fracture, while we were there. He got a nerve block around his injury and did not require any opioids.
Ketamine is another big one. This is something that we know is an anesthetic. It's been around for a long time. Had a reputation as a club drug. But it is now getting sort of the second life to treat pain in emergency rooms.
There was another woman who came in with knee pain who got virtual reality goggles, which is something I had never seen before. But within about 20 minutes, her pain score has dropped from an eight to a three, just with virtual reality.
They're using their -- instead of just monotherapy, they're combining therapies. So instead of ibuprofen and Tylenol, they'd say, Let's use both of those things at the same time. And they're getting significant relief there.
So, there's all these things, Kaitlan. Many of these drugs, many of these modalities, have existed for a long time. But because we sledge- hammered everything with opioids for so long, those things weren't getting enough attention. That is starting to change.
COLLINS: How are the patients feeling about that? Because I feel like maybe people in the medical field see that changing more than people who aren't in the ER, every single day, and go in--
GUPTA: Right.
COLLINS: --and maybe think, I am going to get an opioid when I go in--
GUPTA: That's right.
COLLINS: --and actually, they have other options.
GUPTA: I think this was a bit of a misconception, something we learned while we were working on this project. But I think the idea was, doctors said, I'm going to give the opioids, because that's what the patients want, I'm going to lose satisfaction points if I don't give the opioids. And that turns out not to be the case.
In this ER, where opioids are hardly ever given, patients are more satisfied than in those same -- those same shifts, where opioid was the drug of choice for pain. So, I think, because of, probably, public sentiment and all the negative press around opioids, patients themselves are more reluctant to take opioids, and especially when they get such significant relief. That 76-year-old with the hip fracture, his pain scores dropped to zero with that nerve block. It was -- that was pretty incredible.
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: That is incredible. And also, just such a fascinating look.
Sanjay, always great to have you. Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
And you can watch "Dr. Sanjay Gupta Reports: It Doesn't Have to Hurt," the full story there, this Sunday, that's September 7th, 09:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
