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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Sean "Diddy" Combs Sentenced To Four-Plus Years In Prison; Trump: "Very Close To Achieving" Peace In The Middle East; House Will Not Return As Shutdown Enters Second Week. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 03, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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Well, it's now back. A new permit was issued on Tuesday, notably, just before the government shutdown.
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The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: A remarkable end to the Diddy trial. What the judge said when he announced today's sentence.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
It was a dramatic day in federal court, in New York City, and what was judgment day for Diddy.
In the end, the prosecution didn't get the sentence that it wanted, a 11 years. Nor did the defense get what they wanted, which was essentially time served. The judge instead sentenced Sean Combs to four years and two months in prison, including time served, which works out to be about three more years behind bars for his conviction on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution.
After the sentencing, we heard from Combs' attorneys, as they spoke with my colleague, Kara Scannell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLE WESTMORELAND, ATTORNEY FOR SEAN COMBS: That's absolutely wrong. The jury verdict was disregarded, and it's not supposed to happen. You shouldn't do that. Going to trial is already hard enough. When the jury speaks, you need to listen.
BRIAN STEEL, ATTORNEY FOR SEAN COMBS: I think that it sends the wrong message to people.
This is wrong. We have to change the way we look at it. We are incarcerating way too many people. So, two years is an eternity in custody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: A jury, of course, had acquitted Diddy of the more serious crimes that he had been charged with, like sex trafficking and racketeering.
But before the sentence was handed down today, after hours of hearing from attorneys inside the courtroom, it was Diddy's turn to address the court. And he cried as he addressed his mother, as he begged the judge for mercy.
He said, and I'm quoting him now, "I don't have nobody to blame but myself. I know I'll never put my hands on another person again. I know that I've learned my lesson. I'm willing to comply with any conditions the court puts upon me."
He also apologized to Cassie Ventura, saying, quote, "I lost my self- respect. I've been humbled and broken to my core. I hate myself right now. I got stripped down to nothing."
I want to get right to our:
CNN Legal Analyst, Joey Jackson.
CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig.
And also Elizabeth Wagmeister, who spent all day inside the courtroom and has been covering this trial as closely as anyone.
And you were actually inside the room, as this was handed down. What was that like inside there?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, what's interesting, Kaitlan? The whole day was very emotional. You had five of Diddy's attorneys each speak, at length, for 30 to 45 minutes each. There were tears. One of his attorneys was sobbing, when she was speaking about how inspired she was by her client. And as you said, we saw Diddy cry, at one point.
But when the sentence was handed down, almost no emotion. He was very, very stoic. When he walked out of the courtroom, he did turn around to his kids and his family, and he made a gesture that kind of made it seem like he was signaling to them, It will be OK. But no tears, no big reaction.
COLLINS: Well, what the judge -- kind of the judge seemed to be a big focal point of today, and what he was saying in terms of speaking, not only to the women who came forward here, but also to Diddy himself.
WAGMEISTER: Yes, so he did speak a lot about the women who came forward, both Cassie Ventura and Jane, neither of whom were there. They did not show up to make victim impact statements, though Cassie did write a letter.
But the judge spoke to Diddy, and he said, I agree with your defense that you have accomplished great things. You've inspired so many. But that does not negate your horrific acts. And he actually said to him, What was the reason that your abuse was able to continue for so long? Well, it's because of your power, and your resources, and the fact that you didn't get caught.
But then at the end, when it was really the last few minutes of the sentencing hearing, he actually said to Diddy, Yes, this is hard time. It's four years, but you will get through this with your family, and you can really make a difference in the world. So, he ended the hearing on a very uplifting note.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, as the two of you were watching this, our legal experts, do you think that the judge made a good call here?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: I think the sentence, when you actually consider what Sean Combs was convicted of by the jury, I think the sentence was harsh. I think it was within the range of reason, but harsh.
[21:05:00]
But to me, the biggest takeaway, from this whole thing, is that the Southern District of New York, my old office, overreached. They overreached it every step of this case. They overcharged it. And that's not an opinion anymore. The jury rejected the three top charges. I think that's not just after the fact. I think both of us were on record, at the time, saying it was overcharged.
They overtried the case. There's no reason a one-defendant three- victim case, needs to take six weeks by six prosecutors. I tried a case once with five defendants on trial at once, at least 20 victims. I did it with one other prosecutor, same amount of time. They overtried it.
And with their sentencing request of 11 years? That's ridiculous.
COLLINS: What do you mean they overtried it? Like, they took too long?
HONIG: They took too long. They put too many people on it. They let in too many extraneous details. They should have just cut right to -- you know, we used to say, Thin to win. Get right to it. That's it. Instead, there was too much, you know, too much detail that did not go to the heart of the case.
And finally, the 11-year sentencing request was ridiculous, embarrassing. And the judge went most of the way, not all the way, but much closer to the defense request then. A 11 years, and again, for being convicted of interstate prostitution? That's a ridiculous request, and it backfired.
COLLINS: Joey, what was your takeaway?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: So people will ask, Hey, what about this particular sentence?
If you look at this on balance and put it in perspective, he is a big winner today. Let me explain why.
When we started out this trial, with regard to the racketeering charges, he's running a criminal enterprise? He was facing life in jail. In addition to life in jail, which his liberty interest would have been gone, he was facing the forfeiture of all of his assets.
COLLINS: Yes.
JACKSON: Now, right? He beats the charges, three of them at least, and he gets sentenced now on the other two, transportation for prostitution.
So now you're saying, Well, what's going to happen now? You have the prosecutors that have asked for 11 years. I agree with Elie, that was way overreach, at just as the case was way overreach.
COLLINS: What do you think would have been a better thing--
JACKSON: I think you have to stick with the guidelines.
So, just to be clear, Kaitlan, you have these federal guidelines. And what they are is they're just advisory, and they exist so that you have some uniformity in sentencing. You don't want disparate sentences. One defendant gets 10, another gets five? No. You have guidelines, so it's somewhat even.
They tried to go outside of the guidelines to bring in all types of issues for which the jury has made a decision, and the jury said, No, we're not convicting on that.
So, why are you going and suggesting that all of this conduct for what the jury repudiated, you want to include it in the sentence? That's not appropriate.
Last point. You have United States Department of Probation, they also issue a recommendation. Their recommendation, Kaitlan, was anywhere from what, five to seven years. Judge went below that and said, I'm not going to give you the 14 months, but I'm going to add on more time, which was four years.
So, if you look at it on balance, from what he came into this case with, facing his life, the destruction of his life, to now doing four years and a half a million dollars in payment? Oh, a half a million dollars? He was facing a billion dollars in loss because of the forfeiture.
So, call it what you want. This is a tremendous win. And, to be clear, when I say, Win? There are no winners. There are victims here who are reeling, we get that. Certainly his family is in a problem place. They want him home. But at the end of the day, from what the prosecutor started to where they got? This is a tremendous victory for his team, even if his defense lawyers are really unhappy, and so is he.
COLLINS: So you think this is embarrassing for the prosecutors, basically? JACKSON: I mean, I think that they significantly, to Elie's point, they overreached. You don't have a RICO case, which is the racketeering case, where you have a defendant. These are for mob bosses. He was not a mob boss.
He's running a criminal enterprise? He's doing this? He's a party of one?
In these RICO cases, you have multiple defendants sitting around the table because the government is going after you. You additionally, have other defendants who maybe they would have been, but the government lets them off the hook, so they could come testify against you. We didn't see any of that here. So, why charge it?
And I'm a big proponent -- I just want fairness. Be fair and righteous. Prosecutors have a vast amount of discretion and a vast amount of power. They can put you in jail.
COLLINS: Yes.
JACKSON: They could destroy your life. Use it in a way that's appropriate.
And I think in this case, I know he's Diddy, but just be fair. The government wasn't fair, and I think the judge's sentence reflects that, because it's four years, not a 11.
COLLINS: And I thought what the judge said about these not just being relationships gone wrong or toxic relationships. The judge was saying, this is much more than that, and obviously accountability is important because of the women who came forward here.
And obviously, Diddy's team was trying to show his family's there, his mother, his children. They played it to nearly 12 minute long, back -- documentary style video, I guess, is how you would describe in the courtroom today. Obviously, you saw that.
But I want people to just get a little bit of a sense of what was in the courtroom today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will my baby fly.
SEAN JOHN COMBS, AMERICAN FORMER RAPPER: You got to give them a bottle there (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Know that you mean something to people. Know that you mean something to people. Like, you live somewhere in people's heart.
COMBS: My nose--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, the nose is here.
COMBS: No -- now my clips are off. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You wear it. You wear it.
COMBS: You wear it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: I wonder, as someone who covered this as closely as you did, and is as well-sourced as you are with his world, what you made of that versus what we had heard, the kind of defiance from his team all along.
WAGMEISTER: It felt like in the 11th Hour, all of a sudden, Sean Combs realized, Oh my gosh, I may actually get time and not walk free tomorrow, because he not only had that video that was filed, last night, before this hearing, but he submitted a four-page letter to the judge, which was the first time that he actually said, at least in writing, that he wanted to take accountability.
I have to tell you, that video, when I was walking out of the courtroom, I heard someone who, I will not say who, they were in the courtroom, and I heard them say, What, is he running for Mayor? I mean, it just seemed a little odd to have at a sentencing hearing. I had never seen anything like that. As I said, he had one of his attorneys who was crying.
It was just a complete 180 that all of a sudden, you have this defense team who for months has been saying, He's not guilty, the women are liars. And now he's the most moral man in the world.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, Elie, when you see that, is that typical--
HONIG: Oh, yes.
COLLINS: --to play at a sentencing?
HONIG: Yes -- well, not the video part. I mean, that's new, and I thought it was -- look, it was too slick, in my view. I think it probably backfired.
But it is typical to see this type of duality at sentencing. I mean, that's what sentencings are all about. You, as the prosecutor, know this person for their crimes. But then they bring in the families and the kids.
And look, that can be heartfelt the way the kid -- I always used to say, I don't take anything away from the way the kids and the spouse feel about this person. That's fine. But what he's here for is he was convicted of A, B, C.
But it's tough. Sentencings are not black and white. They can be emotional, and it's tough for judges. COLLINS: So he's been famously held at this notorious place in Brooklyn, as all of this has been playing out. Do we know where he'll go, where he'll serve this sentence?
JACKSON: So--
COLLINS: And how much of it he'll serve?
JACKSON: Yes, so what I think happens, and it is notorious, it's not doing so well, and judges even meting out sentences will reduce sentences, had it happened to me, and put on the record that it's because of this particular facility. What generally happens is, is that--
COLLINS: Because it's that bad?
JACKSON: It's that bad. So, what ends up happening is, is that the Bureau of Prisons will assess where there is availability, appropriate to his particular crime, and you can make a request of the judge, specifically where you'd like to go. Most people want to be next to their family. Doesn't mean that's what's going to happen.
But he will not be serving his sentence there. He, at some point, will be brought out, with regard to the Bureau of Prisons and placed in one of those facilities anywhere across the country.
COLLINS: Yes, and I'm sure an appeal will be coming.
Joey Jackson. Elie Honig. Elizabeth Wagmeister. Excellent reporting during all of this.
Up next here tonight. We do have some major developments that are coming in this hour from the Middle East. Hamas has just responded to President Trump's peace plan for Gaza. And Israel has just responded to Hamas. What they said they're going to do. And what we heard from the President tonight. That's next.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: There's some breaking news just coming in this hour, from our deeply-sourced CNN Contributor, Barak Ravid of Axios, who is reporting tonight that the IDF is going to shift defensive operations -- to defensive operations only in the Gaza Strip, and will now halt the operation to occupy Gaza City.
That's according to a senior Israeli official, and that matters because it comes just hours after we saw Hamas say they had agreed to immediately enter negotiations for the release of all the remaining hostages in Gaza, based on the steps that were laid out in the President's peace plan that he unveiled at the White House, alongside Bibi Netanyahu on Monday.
Now, the group has stopped short of accepting this proposal outright, and Hamas, in its response, has said, further negotiations are needed. A reminder, it calls for Hamas to disarm and to leave governance of Gaza completely.
But the President responded positively to them, and posted this on Truth Social. He said, "Based on the Statement just issued by Hamas, I believe they are ready for a lasting PEACE. Israel must immediately stop the bombing of Gaza, so that we can get the Hostages out safely and quickly."
He followed with a video statement from the Oval Office today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is a big day. We'll see how it all turns out. We have to get the final word down in concrete.
This is a very special day, maybe unprecedented. In many ways. It is unprecedented. But thank you all, and thank you all to those great countries that helped. We were given a tremendous amount of help. Everybody was unified in wanting this war to end and seeing peace in the Middle East, and we're very close to achieving that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me now is CNN's National Security Analyst and the former Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Beth Sanner.
And Beth, obviously, what the President said in his post is that Israel must stop bombing all of Gaza. I think that's the first time we've seen him say anything like that, since he took office.
But on Barak's reporting tonight, saying that the IDF is going to shift to defensive operations only. What's the significance of that?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: It's huge. It's really huge. It shows that Netanyahu is kind of caving to what President Trump has asked for.
And ironically, it's exactly what the Israeli Defense Force Chief of Staff said. Zamir. I mean, he said this at the beginning. It's like, going into Gaza full force is not actually -- there is no military objective here, and it's going to get it -- mean, it is harder to get the hostages out. And now, Zamir is getting what he wanted from the beginning.
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: So obviously, with Hamas coming out today and saying, We're going to accept part of this peace plan in terms of the release of the hostages. We're waiting to see how that plays out. But also making clear, they want to negotiate other parts of this, because, again, it does call for them to disarm, to stop governing Gaza, or stop having any kind of control or authority.
I wonder what you make of how this looks like moving forward, given this announcement from the IDF tonight?
SANNER: It's, I mean, this is so -- you know, this is a gift now, in a way, to Hamas.
But the goal here, and I have to give, really, full credit to President Trump here, is he's trying to move the ball down the field. And while there is a lot, a lot that is required, still, to make this all come about and lead to some kind of peace settlement, it's moving, right? It's moving step by step. And we have to kind of see where it goes next.
But what he's doing by stopping the bombing, which is kind of a requirement by Hamas, to release the hostages, he's saying like, OK, well now, where are those hostages? 72 hours. Right?
But Hamas is also pushing back on that, and they're saying, in effect, that they are not going to release the hostages until the IDF fully withdraws. So, we are kind of, I mean, there's a bit of Groundhog Day here. This is similar to where we were about six months ago in this phased withdraw, phased hostage-release kind of thing.
COLLINS: Yes.
SANNER: But this is what it takes. And diplomacy is just, like this act of kind of moving things forward, step by step, and keeping at it.
COLLINS: Well and--
SANNER: Can he keep at it?
COLLINS: And the statement we got just before we came on air, I was texted by an Israeli official, the statement from the Prime Minister's office, before this reporting from Barak Ravid came out, and they said, basically -- because everyone wanted to know how Netanyahu would respond to this.
And they said, In light of Hamas' response, Israel is preparing for the immediate implementation of the first stage of the President's peace plan regarding the release of the hostages. And then they say, they'll continue to work in full cooperation with Trump and his team.
I mean, I think the question, really, is how Netanyahu is actually viewing this, and an announcement by Trump saying--
SANNER: Yes.
COLLINS: --Israel, you have to stop bombing Gaza.
SANNER: I mean, right, so this is absolutely Trump going after Netanyahu, in a way, but almost as a bystander. I mean, I see this as Trump going for peace, going for hostage release, going for a political settlement, and Netanyahu kind of be damned.
You know, that is what you want, Bibi. Sorry. I'm reading the polls. I see what the net -- what the Israeli people want. I see what is in U.S. interest, which is to end this war. I see what's in my interest is to end this war, so I can move the Abraham Accords forward, and I don't really, you know, talk to the hand.
And so, I think that's what's happening now with Netanyahu. Netanyahu is in a corner for the first time. This is the first time that President Trump has basically said to Netanyahu, Sit down, be quiet, this is the way forward. And he's putting up the roadblock to what Netanyahu wants.
Now -- and this could lead to, you know, a collapse of the coalition government, right? This could lead to the early elections. This is where Netanyahu does not want to be. But President Trump is moving forward with U.S. interests in mind, and as well, I think in long-term Israeli interest, but not in Netanyahu's interest.
COLLINS: Yes, and he also has his eyes on a Nobel Peace Prize as well, in all of this.
Beth Sanner. I mean, these developments are coming in by the minute. Thank you for joining us on this. Obviously, something to watch very closely, throughout the weekend.
SANNER: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next here for us. Also speaking of Washington, and what's continuing on, it looks like the shutdown is going to enter a second week. There was no end in sight today, and it doesn't even look like it's coming anytime soon.
We're going to speak to a top Senate Democrat, about what is going to happen next, as the White House is still freezing funding for blue states.
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, says he has decided not to bring the House back to Washington in session, next week, which means the government shutdown, underway right now, stands poised to drag into a second week, potentially even a third. If this holds, that means Republican members will actually stay back home, and the House will only have been in session for 14 days, since July 25th. Yes, 14 days since July 25th.
The Senate has also just left Washington for the weekend, after Democrats, for the fourth time, rejected the Republican plan to reopen the government. Republicans say that the House did its job, and now it's on the Senate, in particular, Senate Democrats to get on board.
Meanwhile, at the White House, we saw President Trump largely spending the day away from cameras, as he pretty much has this entire week, as his Budget Director froze $2.1 billion in funding for improvements to the Chicago "L." That's the elevated train system there that keeps the city running.
We heard from some Republicans in the Senate who said they didn't really have a problem with the President using this government shutdown to make cuts.
[21:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): You know, all is fair in love and war, and I think that there's a price to pay for the Democrats shutting this down.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): He told the Democrats what he was going to do, and he's doing it, and he's clearly using this as an opportunity to reduce the size of government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight is the Senior Democratic senator from Arizona, Mark Kelly.
And it's great to have you here, sir.
Because, Speaker Johnson says it's up to you and your colleagues to make a deal here. Do you think any agreement is possible on this, to maybe get this House bill passed, and then talk about these health care subsidies and the extension of them later?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, Kaitlan, thank you for having me on.
I think the first thing that needs to happen is the House of Representatives needs to come back to Washington. They were out this week. They say they're going to be out next week. As you point out, since July 25th, I think you said 14 days. That's abandoning their responsibility.
Hey, the Republicans have the House, the Senate, the White House. This is their responsibility to negotiate a way out of this. The President spent all of about one hour, negotiating with Senate and House Democrats and Republicans, by the way. So, that's not the way you lead the country.
The cost for health care for the American people is going to go up dramatically, starting on January 1st. They're going to find out about it on November 1st, when they have to pick these plans. And we're talking about in my state, at least 55 percent, for some people, it's going to double the cost. But in other states, Alaska, there are folks receiving letters already, Kaitlan, where their premiums are going to go from $600 a month to $4,000 a month. That is unaffordable for the American people.
COLLINS: And Democrats have said, that's what this is about. That's why you're making this fight. That's why you're doing this. Because those premiums are just going to be too high for people, and they're not going to be able to afford them. They're going to lose their health care. They're going to choose not to have health care because they just can't afford it.
But if it's all about the ACA subsidies, and that's what you're fighting for, why is that just one paragraph in the entire 68-page proposal from Senate Democrats?
KELLY: Well, I mean, that's what I care about, is these -- these increases. And the expectation, in the State of Arizona, is a 109,000 people will lose their health insurance, because they're not going to be able to afford it. And then what that means is those families are one accident or one illness away from bankruptcy. And when folks lose their health insurance, people die.
And this is easily fixed, if Republicans would just come and talk to us about it. I think we've all made the point that this is the negotiation. This is what we are talking about. It's the increases in premiums.
And I think it's important to note here, the reason these premiums have gone up, or are going up, is because Donald Trump, and Senate and House Republicans, wanted to give a big tax cut for the richest Americans, and this is the way they're planning on paying for it.
COLLINS: So, given that, would you be in favor of taking all the other stuff, about space shuttle contracts, ag marketing, NASA research, submarine programs, all these other things that are in this proposal, would you be in favor of stripping all of that out and just having it be about the ACA premiums?
KELLY: Kaitlan, I don't want to be negotiating this on TV with you, though I do really care about the space shuttle. That matters a lot to me. That does not need to be in this proposal.
I mean, what really matters, right now -- and they know this. The President, I think, he's starting to get this. What happened in that meeting, earlier in the week, was he didn't even understand what these premium tax credits were. So, my hope is that once he starts to figure this out, that this is really bad for the American people? And this really hurts in rural areas. And most of those rural areas voted for Donald Trump. So, it's actually in his best interest to try to fix this.
We care about how much this is going to cost here, next year, for the American people, because we know it's unaffordable. And if we don't do something about it, it's really going to hurt people.
COLLINS: John Thune, who's the Majority Leader over in the Senate, as you know, but for those who don't, he was asked about these subsidies today, and whether or not y'all could come to an agreement, given all of this.
And here's what he told reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): We can't make commitments or promises on the COVID subsidies, because that's not something that we can guarantee that there are the votes there to do. But what I've said is I'm open to having conversations with our Democrat colleagues, about how to address that issue, and I think that the -- but that can't happen while the government is shut down. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He's basically saying, Our proposal is to reopen the government, and then let's have that conversation.
Do you trust him enough to do that?
[21:35:00]
KELLY: Well, John Thune's the Majority Leader. He certainly can make promises. He leads the Republican caucus in the United States Senate. He can make promises. I think we trust him if he makes a promise to us.
Conversations? That doesn't sound like a negotiation to me. I mean, we need some commitments from them that they will take certain steps to protect the American people from these -- these crazy increases that they're going to see in their premiums.
And we should have been negotiating this a month ago, or more than that. After they passed that legislation, they knew that these premiums were going to go up.
COLLINS: Yes.
KELLY: But they prioritized, Kaitlan, they prioritized the richest Americans over hardworking people.
COLLINS: One thing we've heard some of your -- your colleagues are struggling with is what you're fighting for, in terms of, fighting for these subsidies, but also keeping the government shut down. I mean, you have a lot of federal workers in your state, I know, that are obviously being affected by this.
How do you make that call there, in terms of, what's the greater good?
KELLY: Hey, this is a job where we're going to make hard calls. And we can get the government open. If Mike Johnson would bring back the Republicans to the House? And we could do this next week. I mean, we could -- we could figure this out in less than a week.
We could open the government back up. We can give people relief on these premiums, so they don't skyrocket and people lose their insurance. It's pretty straightforward, and I think they know what they should do.
COLLINS: Senator Mark Kelly, we'll see what they do, and of course, what you and your colleagues do. Thanks for joining us tonight.
KELLY: Thank you.
COLLINS: My deeply-sourced White House insider, Semafor's Shelby Talcott is also here.
And Shelby, obviously, it's been fascinating watching how the White House is playing all this out, in terms of messaging standpoints, but also what we're -- we're seeing actual cuts come.
And even though the Energy Secretary here, last night, denied that their recent cuts had anything to do with the government shutdown, the talking point from the White House has been, The longer you keep this shut down, the more we're going to go after projects that squeeze Democrats.
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Right, absolutely. They're not -- they're not hiding the ball here. I talked to a senior White House official just the other day, who described the actions that they're taking, as forcing Democrats to understand the consequences of keeping the government closed.
And so, the administration is not sort of pretending that what they're doing is not, in part, to make Democrats feel the consequences of keeping the government shut down. And so, you're seeing the result of that. You're seeing a lot of these blue states be targeted, and a lot of these cuts go forward in blue states, and also funding be put on hold for major projects in places like New York City.
COLLINS: Yes, well, and in the infrastructure projects in New York, one thing they did today was reverse that course -- reversed course on -- it was a $187 million cut for counterterrorism funding, here in New York. I was told it wasn't tied to the shutdown, but it coincided with it.
And I was told the President, when he found out about it, basically exploded in anger. Obviously, he used to live here. And they reversed this.
I think it raises questions about, who's being fully read in on what they are cutting and what's happening.
TALCOTT: Absolutely, and that was something I was asking around about today, basically, who is responsible for these sorts of things, regardless of whether this particular cut came as a result of the government being shut down, or whether it was separate.
Clearly, there was some sort of line of communication missing, where it didn't get to President Trump. And as you said, he was extremely frustrated when he learned about those cuts.
And so, one of the consequences, perhaps, that we're starting to see, of the government being shut down is there's less employees, there's less staffers, and therefore there are some communication lines that are no longer open, and things are sort of getting missed in the normal line -- chain of command that usually would get up to President Trump. Now things maybe aren't getting to President Trump.
COLLINS: Yes, and he's been meeting with Russ Vought, obviously, on all of this.
I just want you to listen to what Chris Wright, and speaking of his comments yesterday, about whether or not pulling a lot of this climate funding, this energy funding, was tied to this, and this is what he told us. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You say this isn't tied to -- well, Congress passed this money, of course, as you know. But you say this is not tied to the government shutdown, right?
CHRIS WRIGHT, ENERGY SECRETARY: These cancelation decisions? Absolutely not tied to the government shutdown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, that is diametrically opposed to a White House that says before they say the word, shutdown, they say, Schumer shutdown, every single day, on repeat.
TALCOTT: Yes, and I think that there are administration officials who wouldn't be opposed to saying that these cuts are because of the shutdown. Because, as we've been talking about all evening, the White House's goal here is, in part, to make Democrats feel the pain for this, and we're seeing the result of that.
[21:40:00]
We're seeing them make those cuts on a whole host of issues, and they're going to continue to make those cuts. We still haven't seen a lot of these federal employee layoffs that are supposedly happening, they were supposedly happening as soon as today. Those could come over the weekend.
I anticipate that the White House, in my conversations with White House officials, are going to double down on this. They're going to continue making these cuts. They're going to continue pausing some of these projects. And I think that layoffs are coming pretty soon as well.
COLLINS: Well, and it seems like it's definitely stretching up, well into next week.
Shelby Talcott, great to have your reporting. Thanks for joining us tonight.
And as Shelby notes, a lot of the government work has been ground to a halt right now. But the administration did do something today by unveiling a new coin that has the President's face on it. Can they do that? We're going to speak to Mad Money's Jim Cramer about it all, and his new book, next.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, as the government shutdown is very much still underway. The question is, does the government data blackout on critical economic indicators that are used by Wall Street, small businesses and investors, and what happens because of that? Among this data that is left unpublished tonight is the crucial monthly jobs report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And its release will be delayed at least until the shutdown ends, and we don't know when that's going to be, based on what we heard from Republicans on Capitol Hill today.
And what the government did release today was this. The U.S. Treasury revealed a mock-up. It's a commemorative $1 coin with President Trump's face on the front side, as you can see here, in honor of America's 250th birthday, next year.
On the back, you can see that image, that iconic image of Trump raising his fist, after his assassination attempt that happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, with the words: Fight, Fight, Fight.
My source tonight is Jim Cramer, the host of CNBC's "Mad Money" and "Squawk on the Street," whose brand-new book, "How to Make Money in Any Market" is in stores now, and obviously of high interest to people.
And I want to talk about the book.
JIM CRAMER, HOST, CNBC'S "MAD MONEY" & "SQUAWK ON THE STREET," AUTHOR, "HOW TO MAKE MONEY IN ANY MARKET": Sure.
COLLINS: Can I ask you about this coin first, though? Because I thought this was -- I thought you could not put the face of a sitting or a living president on currency.
CRAMER: Well, I'm a -- I'm kind of more like a George Washington guy. Holds up under close scrutiny. That's where I come down.
COLLINS: Yes.
CRAMER: Lincoln on the five, don't see that much anymore.
COLLINS: Yes.
CRAMER: Jackson, I don't know? Difficult 20, kind of hard. Not that great, historically.
So I can't speak to the living guys. But I know some of the dead guys. Grant was underrated.
COLLINS: Yes, yes.
CRAMER: Used to be a good guy.
COLLINS: Yes. Or maybe like a Jimmy Carter, or someone like that.
CRAMER: Well, look, he was president and lived for a long time and stood for world peace. I mean, you know.
COLLINS: Yes.
CRAMER: World peace also good. COLLINS: Yes. I think most people are in favor of that, especially right now in this environment.
CRAMER: Right.
COLLINS: When you look at this, though, as this government shutdown has been happening--
CRAMER: Right.
COLLINS: --we've been covering this every day in Washington. And the White House has been very hopeful it was going to end tonight. I was skeptical of that hope, and obviously rightfully so.
I'm kind of shocked by how the stock market is responding to the government shutdown. They seem to just kind of be shrugging it off.
CRAMER: Well, Kaitlan, I got to tell you, if you've had six of them, and all six, the markets went up a percent after? Then you don't want to sell. Now, it could be self-fulfilling and circular reasoning, you'd be like, OK, maybe this is the one doesn't (ph). But everybody who sold in previous shutdowns was hard to get back in.
COLLINS: Oh, really?
CRAMER: Yes. I mean, each time it's been a buying opportunity. The last six have been buying opportunities. I've lived through a lot of these, and they're kind of like, I'm not saying they're new owners, because you never know what's going to happen. And there's no new owner, when 900,000 people could be furloughed, because those people--
COLLINS: Yes.
CRAMER: --it's about putting -- a job is about putting food on the table, right? And you can't put your regular meal on the table if you're not being paid. So, there's 900,000 people who are definitely, I feel terrible for. But it has never been a time to sell and always been a time to buy. So, it's hard to say this time would be different.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously, we'll see how long it lasts, and whether or not that changes how it's reacting.
And it's, your book is incredibly timely in terms of that. It's "How to Make Money in Any Market."
CRAMER: Thank you.
COLLINS: And as you were looking at this book, and you just kind of talked about what people should do, when they should do it, and you were giving them this advice in terms of what their next step should be, whether they're young, older, if they've never done it before, if they have.
I wonder what was your biggest takeaway going into this book, and what you wanted to make sure people walked away with. CRAMER: Look, great you asked me that, because, look, it is a how-to book. Now, everybody wants to write a book that is flowery and important, and everybody wants to do something that leave a mark. And I've done, I've written seven other books, whatever. My best one was, probably my first one, it was -- it was like my autobiography, and the lawyers hated it, because what -- made me look so bad.
But this is about -- this is a how-to book about how to save. I lived in my car for period of six months, and I was still able to save some money. And so, I am the living proof. I don't want to hear that you can't save.
So many people feel, one, they can't save, and two, they'll never have as much money as their parents. This is this whole new generational thing.
COLLINS: Yes.
CRAMER: They're getting $100 trillion coming from the baby boomers, and they're very depressed, and don't care, and don't believe that. I say, hold the triple Venti cappuccino with skim wet, which is like, now up to, like, eight bucks, probably a nickel from Starbucks, and I love. But it's just save--
COLLINS: That is cheap. Yes.
CRAMER: Yes, it is. It's not bad. I like the protein one. I think it's OK.
COLLINS: I haven't tried that one yet.
CRAMER: It's OK. I mean, some people say it's really great.
COLLINS: But I have a lot of friends who feel that way, who feel--
CRAMER: Thanks.
COLLINS: --I will not make as much money and have -- they won't have the wealth that their parents did.
[21:50:00]
CRAMER: Well, I wrote it for them. I wrote it in a breezy fashion. Look, I've been around long enough to be able to know how to write a book that is, if you're -- if you've been around for a long time, you can actually do it anecdotally. I don't have to do it empirically as much. I do have a lot of stocks that showed you they've changed your life. I have a whole chapter about how Nvidia changed people's lives, and--
COLLINS: Which you named your dog, Nvidia?
CRAMER: Well, that's how I got people in it. The stock was at two. No one was listening to me. I said this, Nvidia is going to be the greatest story of all time. I've met Jensen Huang multiple times, he's CEO. And he said, Look, no one's listening, no one's paying attention. Watch, watch, when I come back to New York, I'm going to get people to do it. And I just said, Listen, I got this dog, Everest. He's a beaten-up rescued dog. He's half pit bull. And I renamed him into -- I renamed him Nvidia, because this stock is -- this stock is great. No one's listening to me either.
And I meet Nvidia millionaires all the time, and it's really great. I feel terrific about it.
COLLINS: Yes, you've written about that and said you run into people who say, I took your advice and it worked.
CRAMER: Well. It's nice, you know? It's funny that when you hit a stock like that, it changes people's lives. There was a policeman came up to me, the other day, doing a Barnes & Noble books signing, and he said, he whispered to me that he made a million dollars. Now, it's his calling. The police officer was his calling, so he's not going to go quit and do something else, and I really appreciate that. But this is a man who, a grown man, who was, I think, close to tears because I made him a mil, and I feel fantastic about. That's what I do. I mean, if that's -- and if that's what I do, maybe I did OK.
COLLINS: Yes. And I loved reading about your experience and what you lived through.
CRAMER: Well, and--
COLLINS: It's an excellent book.
CRAMER: There are a lot of ups and downs in life. And right now, I mean, when you -- look, when you're living in your car, you're broke, and you're really down and out, and you're--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Yes.
CRAMER: --Jack Daniels, and you come through it, you're OK.
COLLINS: Jack Daniels included.
Jim Cramer, great to have.
CRAMER: Hey, thank you. Good to be here.
COLLINS: Thank you so much for joining us.
The new book is "How to Make Money in Any Market," is in stores now.
And it is also Friday here on THE SOURCE. You know what that means. It is time for our look behind the scenes of this week, in Washington. You don't want to miss this one.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: From a government shutdown, to a proposed peace plan with Israel's Prime Minister, and an unprecedented meeting of top generals. Here's our behind the scenes look at this week in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: We're going to straighten them out one by one. It's a war from within.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, September 29.
TRUMP: Everybody who wants to see an end to the violence and destruction should be united in calling for Hamas to accept the extremely fair proposal.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: If Hamas rejects your plan, Mr. President, then Israel will finish the job the easy way, or it can be done the hard way.
COLLINS: This is the second time in memory that President Trump has been in the room with a world leader with a setup like this one, and not taken questions.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We laid out to the President some of the consequences of what's happening in health care. By the way he looked, I think he heard about them for the first time.
COLLINS: Can you respond to what Senator Schumer said, that there were aspects about health care ending for certain people that the President was learning about for the first time, in that meeting? And was the President open to a deal on the ACA subsidies?
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I'm highly skeptical that the President was learning about it for the first time. We want to work across the aisle to make sure that people have access to good health care. We are not going to let Democrats shut down the government.
COLLINS: Leader Thune, where is the common ground on the ACA subsidies, do you think?
THUNE: We can have that conversation after the government stays open.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, September 30.
TRUMP: We should use some of these dangerous cities run by the radical-left Democrats as training grounds for our military.
SCHUMER: He's using Americans as pawns. Democrats do not want a shutdown.
TRUMP: Lot of good can come down from shutdowns. We can get rid of a lot of things that we didn't want. They'd be Democrat things.
COLLINS: We're just a couple hours away from the deadline for government funding. And right now, White House officials are bracing for the potential for a government shutdown. President Trump has spent the day, suggesting that actually a government shutdown could be advantageous, using this moment to fire federal workers or cut programs.
We are now three hours away from the federal government shutting down with no last-minute deal in sight.
Do you believe the government is going to shut down in three hours from now?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I think it is inevitable now. It's a very reckless decision that Chuck Schumer has made. The Democrats have taken the last vote. They voted it down once again.
COLLINS: Is your argument tonight that, fighting for extending these subsidies is worth shutting the government down?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): If we allow the Republicans to simply not negotiate and to throw 15 million people off of health care? That will cause even more harm.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, October 1.
VANCE: The American people's government exists for the American people. That's why we're fighting to reopen the government. And unfortunately, the Democrats are fighting to shut it down for the benefit of illegal aliens.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Republicans have consistently shut the government down. We are ready to sit down, now to reopen the government.
COLLINS: We are now more than 20 hours into the government shutdown, and neither side shows any signs of backing down.
What we've seen, though, from the White House is not silence. They are actually using all of their government websites to say, this is Democrats pushing this shutdown. Do you think that they're being more effective in their messaging, in terms of putting this blame on Democrats?
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): I don't think that they're being more effective. I think that they are being more illegal. We are not allowed to politic on official sites. Period.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, October 2.
JOHNSON: To keep the government closed, it's going to get more and more painful. Democrats are the ones who have decided to inflict the pain, not the President.
COLLINS: What's happening behind the scenes could be just as key as what they are saying publicly.
Who made the final call to cancel these projects, these grants? Was this tied to the government shutting down? [22:00:00]
WRIGHT: No, our decisions have been made over the last few months. Team of seven or eight people have evaluated over 2,400 projects, just on business conditions. Whether it makes sense for the American taxpayers or not. These decisions are made all in the Energy Department, all based on facts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Also this week, you can test your knowledge of the news. You should be pretty caught up after watching that. There's a brand-new episode of CNN's "HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU," this Saturday, 09:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Have a great weekend.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
