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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Former Trump National Security Advisor John Bolton Indicted; Mamdani, Cuomo, Sliwa Face Off In NYC Mayoral Debate; Trump To Meet With Putin Again To Discuss Ending War. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 16, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --we're also launching a companion streaming show, called "All There Is Live" on October 30th, at 09:15 p.m. Eastern Time. It will be a live, weekly interactive show. I'll be talking to guests, playing voicemails and videos from podcast listeners, interacting with people, watching through our comments section, live.
So, that's going to be a new weekly program. I think of it as kind of like an old school late-night radio call-in show about grief. You can watch the show at CNN.com/AllThereIs or on the CNN mobile app.
That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: --Special Edition of THE SOURCE.
And tonight, President Trump's former National Security Advisor, John Bolton finds himself facing criminal charges over actions that prosecutors say he took during his time working in the White House and after he left government.
A federal grand jury today, in Maryland, indicted John Bolton on 18 counts of transmitting and retaining sensitive national defense information. He's accused of sharing that information with two of his family members.
Sources tell CNN that those family members are his wife and his daughter. And the charges sent -- are around notes that Bolton made to himself in an AOL email account, at times writing summaries of his activities, prosecutors say, like diary entries. The indictment claims that Bolton shared more than a 1,000 pages of those notes, and that printouts of the diary entries were found in Bolton's home.
The indictment also suggests that Iranian-linked hackers gained access to that email account in 2021, including the sensitive material that they are accusing him of sharing.
President Trump today didn't weigh in on the merits of this case, but he made his feelings clear, about his former National Security Advisor, when he was asked by my colleague, Kristen Holmes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, John Bolton was just indicted by a grand jury in Maryland. Do you have a reaction to that?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I didn't know that. You told me for the first time. But I think he's, you know, a bad person. I think he's a bad guy. Yes, he's a bad guy. He's too bad. But it's the way it goes.
HOLMES: Have you reviewed the case against him?
D. TRUMP: That's the way it goes, right? That's the way it goes.
Will I what?
HOLMES: Have you reviewed the case against him?
D. TRUMP: No, I haven't. I haven't. But I just think he's a bad person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: In a statement that I received from John Bolton tonight, he writes, in part, I have become the latest target in weaponizing the Justice Department to charge those he deems to be his enemies with charges that were declined before or distort the facts.
John Bolton says, My book was reviewed and approved by the appropriate, experienced career clearance officials. And, When my e- mail was hacked in 2021, the FBI was made fully aware. In four years of the prior administration, after these reviews, no charges were ever filed. Then came Trump 2 who embodies what Joseph Stalin's head of secret police once said, 'You show me the man, and I'll show you the crime.'
Bolton says, These charges are not just about his focus on me or my diaries, but his intensive effort to intimidate his opponents, to ensure that he alone determines what is said about his conduct.
That book that John Bolton is talking about, in his new statement tonight, was the memoir that he wrote after he left the White House, and the battle that it sparked between Bolton and the first Trump administration over whether or not he was revealing classified information in the book.
I covered it at the time, and President Trump was insisting then that Bolton was guilty, though no charges had been filed back then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: He released massive amounts of classified and confidential, but classified information. That's illegal. And you go to jail for that. And he should have known that. You go to jail for that. I think some of it was classified by him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, on a personal level, Bolton and Trump have had a roller coaster relationship, like few that we have seen. Trump went from hiring Bolton to a top role of his, a critical position, to loathing him. The feeling was mutual. Bolton publicly criticized the President on multiple occasions, including on this show.
And as Bolton noted, his experience tonight, when it comes to U.S. foreign policy, he is someone who has served in every Republican administration since Ronald Reagan, and has spoken quite often about other high-profile investigations involving classified information.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, ATTORNEY AND FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's going to get a lot more serious for Biden, the fact that apparently some of these classified documents go all the way back to his Senate days.
And really, the classified documents case goes to how Trump handled himself as a president, and a former president. And both cases show he didn't handle it very well.
My view is that Snowden committed treason, he ought to be convicted of that, and then he ought to swing from a tall oak tree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: To start us off tonight, my legal sources are joining us, including the former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe, and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Tom Dupree.
And Tom, you heard what Bolton is saying there. He is a victim of political prosecution, he's arguing, by the Trump DOJ.
After looking through the indictment, I wonder what you make of the DOJ's case.
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, look, there's no question that John Bolton is viewed by Trump as an enemy. It's no surprise that Trump has long been pushing for the indictment of John Bolton.
At the same time, I think it's important to recognize that there are important differences between the indictment that we saw today, and the indictments that were in the news a week or two ago with Jim Comey and Tish James.
This indictment is far more substantive. It is far more thorough. It's a 26-page indictment that was signed by a team of Justice Department lawyers. And of course, it also was based on the fruits of the search warrant that was executed at Bolton's house. So, from -- in a prosecutorial perspective, this is a far more serious effort than what we saw with Jim Comey and Tish James. COLLINS: Well, and Andrew McCabe, what the investigation is basically picked up after there was a hack from a foreign adversary, believed to be Iran, who wanted to assassinate John Bolton. For everyone who doesn't remember. This was of his email account.
And in the indictment, they're saying that at no point did Bolton tell the FBI that while he was the National Security Advisor, he had used the hacked email account to send Individuals 1 and 2 -- his wife and his daughter -- documents relating to the national defense, including classified information. Nor did he tell the FBI that the hackers now had this information.
What does that part of the indictment, which is an indictment, of course, it's just an allegation from these prosecutors, but what does that say to you?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: That's a really tricky fact for John Bolton to have to navigate now.
So, there's the immediate impression that you referred to, the fact the allegation in the indictment that he did his -- he or his representatives failed to indicate to the FBI, any concern about the information that might have been hacked from his system. Certainly didn't say that he had a bunch of classified information on that system. But it also serves to prove the government's case of damage.
So, there will be an issue around whether or not the material Mr. Bolton is alleged to have improperly sent to his family members was in fact classified. And the government has a lot of leeway in those arguments. Courts are loathed to get in and second-guess the government's determination of damage.
But in this case, the Iran hack shows that the information did actually end up in the hands of the enemy. So, you have this -- so the -- this idea of damage is not some theoretical concept. It actually happened here. And in fact, the laws are structured to prevent exactly this. We don't send confidential or classified or defense -- national defense information onto unclassified systems, because we don't want it to end up in the hands of the enemy. And it seems that in this case, it actually did.
COLLINS: Yes, and Tom, one thing that, just for people who didn't remember at the time, this was Bolton was writing his book. People who have been in positions like that, especially National Security Advisors, have often prepared for future memoirs while they were in office.
I mean, President Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, wrote a key source for his own book, he said, with his own notes on important events. He said that he dictated them fresh, usually late the same night. He wrote, Thus, all questions of verbatim remarks either by me or attributed to others that appear in this book are taken from minutes of meetings or from notes that were dictated the same day. He's trying to talk about what he sourced his material with. But I wonder if John Bolton is going to be arraigned tomorrow, if this goes to trial and he's defending himself, is that a valid defense that you believe his team could use?
DUPREE: I'm not sure it ultimately would be a valid defense at the end of the day, Kaitlan. When Brzezinski did that, and when past people, past senior officials, have written these things, they were operating in a different time when, it's very possible that these laws governing classified information may not be -- have been enforced as strictly as they are today.
And that's one of the things that surprised me a bit about today's indictment, is that -- again, there are allegations. But if you believe them, it does suggest that Bolton was somewhat curiously careless with his approach to classified information, which is surprising to me, because he is, as you know, a very old Washington hand.
He knows the significance of classified information. He knows the critical importance of keeping it secret. And yet, despite all of that knowledge and all of his experience, he did, apparently, allegedly, sent classified information to people who are not authorized to receive it.
COLLINS: Well, and Andy McCabe, when you look through this, I mean, obviously John Bolton has talked a lot, in past years, about Hillary Clinton's handling of classified information. President Trump's handling of the classified documents, of course, that were at his home that he refused to turn over.
When you look at this and the question of what comes next here, I wonder what you see in this?
[21:10:00]
MCCABE: Yes, I mean, it's a -- it comes off in the indictment as having been a very thorough investigation with a search warrant that was done in a timely fashion and rendered significant evidence.
There's a lot of detail in the indictment that he's going to have to, you know, his defense team is going to have to work with all of those bad facts, as the lawyers like to call them.
He'll obviously be indicted. He'll get discovery. They'll go into a period of a process, it's known as CIPA, the Classified Information Procedures Act, which will control kind of what gets -- what of this allegedly classified information gets used and exposed at trial, and what doesn't.
So, we have a long runway in front of us before we're going to see any like court action on this case. But he's going to really struggle, not just with the evidentiary matters that are referred to in the indictment, but also to things like those quotes you mentioned.
So, he is quoted, in several places in the indictment, about having made very derogatory comments about people like Hillary Clinton and others who have -- who have had issues with classified information. That's not an evidentiary issue. It's not required to prove this case. But it's the sort of thing that will -- that could really play in a negative way with the jury if this case ever ends up in front of one.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what happens after tomorrow.
Andrew McCabe. Tom Dupree. Great to have both your expertise on this.
And also, we're here on Capitol Hill tonight. My next source tonight is a Democratic member of the House Judiciary and the House Foreign Affairs Committees. Representative Pramila Jayapal of Washington.
And thank you for being here.
Because when you read through this indictment, and I do think, to Tom's point there, about why this is different than what we saw with Letitia James or James Comey. This was actually brought by career Justice Department prosecutors. That has not been the case, so we've seen in other situations here, lately, with other indictments. But do you believe that this indictment is a serious one?
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, I think, as your guest said, Kaitlan, this is different than other indictments that have been brought, and so it should be taken very seriously.
I think the challenge that Donald Trump has and the Department of Justice has is that even though we don't know the facts of this case, we do know that there's a pattern of Trump blowing past all the previous norms of independence, between the President and the Department of Justice.
And we all saw the somewhat unhinged Truth Social post that he thought was going as a private message to Pam Bondi, where he specifically gives his wish list of enemies, right? He's got James Comey on there. He's got Tish James on there. And then he actually says, This is the person I want to be put in to prosecute those, Lindsey Halligan, who has no experience as a prosecutor and ends up as the top prosecutor for the Eastern Division.
And so, I think that that is the taint of all of this, is that Trump has utilized and weaponized the Department of Justice. And the irony here is that on day one of his second term, he actually signed an executive order, you know, I forget what it was called, but something like, stopping the weaponization of the Department of Justice. That is exactly what he's done, is used it for political retribution. And so, that does taint this case.
But it's obviously a very different case that has to be looked at on its own merits, and it is very different in terms of substance, certainly than Tish James or James Comey.
COLLINS: So, you're basically saying that it makes it harder to distinguish between legitimate and political investigations and prosecutions.
JAYAPAL: Well, that's right, because what he's done is -- you know, and look, these are norms, right, that came in after Watergate, for the most part, to really prevent a president from utilizing the Department of Justice as their own tool of weaponization and retribution against political enemies.
And I think he's blown past all of that with the appointments he's made, with the cases that he's brought. And so, the fact that this is the third in a series of cases that were completely, in my view, absolutely outrageous, with Tish James, with James Comey, this, I think this -- you know, you have to look at this also with that eye. And again, I'm not saying--
COLLINS: Yes.
JAYAPAL: --I think we have to look at the differences in this case. But I do think that he's got to think about this. If he keeps using the Department of Justice and being very clear that he doesn't mind weaponizing it for his wish list of political enemies? It is going to undermine any real cases that he might want to bring forward.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, thank you for joining us tonight.
JAYAPAL: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next here. There is a fiery debate that has been playing out in New York tonight. The top candidates in New York's mayoral race have just left the stage after that debate. You're going to see the key moments here. We'll break them down for you, right after this.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: What I tell the President is, if he ever wants to come for New Yorkers in the way that he has been, he's going to have to get through me as the next mayor of this city.
CURTIS SLIWA, (R) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: If you try to get tough with Trump, the only people who are going to suffer from that are the people of New York City.
ANDREW CUOMO, (I) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: OK. When I'm fighting for New York, I am not going to stop. And I'll tell you something else. If the Assemblyman is elected Mayor, Donald Trump will take over New York City--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We have to--
CUOMO: --and it will be Mayor Trump--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to--
CUOMO: --who runs New York City. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to move on--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: President Trump loomed large tonight, over the race to become New York City's mayor -- next mayor.
[21:20:00]
In the first general election debate that we saw, it featured the Democratic nominee, Zohran Mamdani, the former Governor Andrew Cuomo, who is now running as an Independent after losing to Mamdani, and the Republican nominee, Curtis Sliwa, who -- and as we watched all this play out, oftentimes on that debate stage as they were taking questions, the political attacks turned very personal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: He's never had a job. On his resume, it says he interned for his mother. This is not a job for a first-timer. Any day, you could have a hurricane, you're -- God forbid, a 9/11, a health pandemic. If you don't know what you're doing--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Mr. Cuomo. We have to--
CUOMO: --people could die.
MAMDANI: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir Mamdani--
MAMDANI: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --if you want to respond?
MAMDANI: And if we have a health pandemic, then why would New Yorkers turn back to the governor who sent seniors to their death in nursing homes? That's the kind of experience that's on offer here today. What I don't have in experience, I make up for in integrity. And what you don't have in integrity, you could never make up for in experience.
CUOMO: Yes--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me now, CNN's Gloria Pazmino, who has been following this debate from Rockefeller Center.
Gloria, that was quite the debate. A lot of moments that clearly stood out. As one who's been covering this race as closely as you have, I wonder what your biggest takeaways were.
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, Kaitlan, the big question going into this debate was whether or not Andrew Cuomo was going to be able to sort of make out any clearer lane that he's been able to do so far, and whether or not he was going to be able to capture more support by performing in any different way.
And we saw Cuomo sort of start out by trying to be a bit joyful, by trying to be more energetic. But eventually, he retreated to much of what we've seen over the past several months, attacking Mamdani over his lack of experience, some of his proposals, and trying to point to his own executive experience as former Governor of the State of New York.
But as you mentioned, President Donald Trump looming large over this debate. There were several questions that were brought up, throughout the two-hour debate, about how these candidates would deal with a Trump administration. And we've seen Zohran Mamdani, the Democratic nominee, constantly try to tie Andrew Cuomo to President Trump.
And we know, from our own reporting, that Trump has been very interested in this race. He has said that he believes Cuomo is the better candidate.
There were a few times during this debate that it turned slightly personal, particularly over Mamdani's identity as a Muslim. In fact, he would make history as New York City's first elected Muslim mayor. And he pointed out that Andrew Cuomo had not started to campaign in that community until now.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: His divisiveness is chronic.
MELISSA RUSSO, NYC MAYORAL DEBATE MODERATOR: Cuomo, can you address the question? At what point do you -- I think you've made the point. But can you please answer about your own relationship with the Muslim community? You did not visit mosques for many years. More recently, you have been--
CUOMO: I -- yes, I don't think -- I don't think, in any way the Assemblyman is representative of the Muslim community, which is a vital community in New York City, and I am very fond of, and I've been working with.
MAMDANI: It took me to get you to even see those Muslims as part of this city, and that, frankly, is something that is shameful, and is why so many New Yorkers have lost faith in this politics.
CUOMO: Yes, except that is totally false.
SLIWA: You know, as a -- as a--
CUOMO: I've worked with the Muslim community for many, many years.
MAMDANI: Name -- name a single mosque you went to, when you were the governor?
CUOMO: Before -- before you-- before you--
MAMDANI: Can you name a single mosque you went to in 10 years?
CUOMO: --were ever here. They were in this--
MAMDANI: Before I was here?
CUOMO: Before you were even in state government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAZMINO: Kaitlan, I do also need to mention the role of the Republican candidate in this race. Curtis Sliwa, who has never had government experience, has never held political office, but who has gotten a lot of support from New Yorkers, and had a pretty impressive performance during tonight's debate.
He was placed in the middle of the two candidates, and he constantly attacked Andrew Cuomo. That is significant, because Andrew Cuomo has openly appealed to Republicans, here in New York, trying to get Republicans to vote for him, and not Curtis Sliwa, saying that Curtis Sliwa's not really a serious candidate. But Sliwa appeared tonight to have come prepared for that, and spent a lot of tonight's debate, attacking him.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, it was quite a moment up there on the stage.
Gloria Pazmino, thank you for updating us, on that debate of the New York City mayoral race. We'll keep you updated on any developments there.
Up next. Eric Trump's new memoir, "Under Siege," talks about how he says his family has pivoted financially after, what he says are, coordinated plans to destroy them. Eric Trump is going to join me, right after this.
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump, in his successful campaign to retake the White House, made clear that if voters returned him to the Oval Office, he would not forget those who, he says, wronged him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: I am your warrior. I am your justice.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
D. TRUMP: And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. I am your retribution.
(CHEERING) (END BREAK)
COLLINS: The list of people whom the President and his family have taken issue with is laid out in his -- in a new book by the President's son, Eric Trump. That is called "Under Siege: My Family's Fight to Save Our Nation." It details what, Eric Trump says, was a coordinated plan to destroy his family, a plan that he says extended to the nation's biggest banks, cutting off access to the kind of financing that developers need for real estate ventures.
[21:30:00]
Eric Trump writes in his new book, quote, "The same siege came from some insurance carriers and other financial partners." And "When we lost our banking, we quickly became a leader in cryptocurrency."
In fact, a Forbes article, last week, declared that Trump is now one of America's biggest Bitcoin investors.
I want to talk about all of this with my next source, the Executive Vice President of The Trump Organization, the Author of "Under Siege," Eric Trump.
And thanks for being here, sir, and congrats on the book.
ERIC TRUMP, AUTHOR, "UNDER SIEGE," EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Obviously, as we noted, you have been pretty busy, lately, on expanding into a range of ventures, including crypto. You recently told the Financial Times, it has actually netted your family over a billion dollars in pretax profits over the past year.
And I think, for an industry that is changing as much as crypto is, and for someone who is new, relatively new to that world, how did you make so much money so fast?
E. TRUMP: Kaitlan, I never thought I'd get into crypto. And I talk about it a lot in "Under Siege."
We were debanked. We were de-platformed. They came after us like absolute dogs. I was the guy getting the call from Capital One, and JPMorgan Chase, and Bank of America, and so many others, in the middle of the night, saying, Congratulations, we're canceling all your bank accounts and you can't do business anymore.
They literally shut us out of the financial markets for doing absolutely nothing wrong, only because my father decided to wear a hat that said, Make America Great Again.
They wanted to take the rails out from under our business. These aren't political entities. These are golf courses. These are condominium buildings. And they tried to destroy us. And that's when I found that I -- I don't think there's anything that traditional finance can do better than crypto. Crypto is faster, it's cheaper, it's more transparent, it's 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and it's a modern-day -- future finance.
And so, the same people that were coming after us were going after the people in the crypto industry, and I realized how smart they were, and I realized how innovative they were. And I'm incredibly proud to be part of the crypto industry. There -- it is the industry that is going to govern finance in three, five and 10 years.
COLLINS: Well, you said recently that the crypto space is basically 50 percent or, I think you said at least 50 percent of what you're doing. How much of the business is still real estate projects, and how much of it is crypto now?
E. TRUMP: Yes. Oh, a tremendous amount of real estate. Obviously, you know our hard assets, you've been to so many of them over the years. And I love real estate. Hard assets is my bread and butter, and it's what I absolutely love to do. We're builders.
But I really do believe cryptocurrency, mainly, Bitcoin, is the greatest hedge against real estate, right? One's a very illiquid asset. one's a very liquid asset. It is tradable 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It's tradable around the world. There's no middlemen, there's no banks, there's no financial institutions. It can't be stripped from you. It can't be weaponized against you.
And I think it's one of the things that has so much appeal for the crypto industry, and why it's the fastest growing industry on Earth right now. I mean, crypto is literally growing faster than the internet was in the 1990s, and it's amazing.
And you watch every big bank get into crypto now, they have to. You watch what Bitcoin's doing. You watch what Ethereum is doing. You watch what Stablecoins are doing. And you watch how much money is coming into the United States based on cryptocurrency, and that's a wonderful thing for the U.S. dollar.
COLLINS: Yes, and when your father retook office this time -- I mean, he was pretty skeptical of it, the last time he was in office. I remember that. And this time, he said he wanted to be the first crypto president. And to do that, he's installed a lot of pro crypto aides inside the administration. He has a new Crypto Task Force. They've loosened regulations.
Some people want to know, how do you draw the line between what he does as President, and what your family does as business?
E. TRUMP: Well, I think you know me well enough to know that I stay the hell out of Washington, D.C., and I always have.
And listen, again, we found crypto because we were debanked. They tried to take everything away from us, and we found that industry because of that.
But if you look at all around the world, right? Everybody wants the U.S. dollar. Everybody. Universally. No one in Asia wants any of their currencies. No one in Europe wants the euro. No one wants the pound. No one wants any of the South American or African currencies. Guess what they want? They all want the U.S. dollar.
And so, what's happening is, you look at instability around the world. People are gravitating toward the American system, and I think that's a beautiful thing for our country. And Kaitlan, if you look at China, they were running toward cryptocurrency. If you look at the UAE, if you look at the entire Middle East, they were all sprinting toward cryptocurrency.
My father is winning the race, and he's winning it for America, and I'm incredibly proud of that, because this just is the future of banking. It's the future of finance, you know? I mean, again, this is what is growing the fastest in the world. It's picking up tens and tens and tens of thousands of accounts every single day, and America needs to win the race in this revolution.
COLLINS: Yes, but by easing the restrictions on the crypto industry, would you acknowledge that your family has benefited from those changes?
E. TRUMP: I mean, Kaitlan, we were -- all of our crypto ventures started when we were in courthouses. I mean, you were often sitting next to me on those wooden pews, in front of Merchan and Engoron.
And we were literally working in the crypto industry in those days, when everybody gave us zero chance of actually winning. They said we had no shot, and it was much more likely that we were all going to get put in jail for doing absolutely nothing. Hence "Under Siege," right? Then, be back in the White House. So no, I think one has nothing to do with the other.
[21:35:00]
I think crypto is modern-day finance, and what do you -- you know, what are you going to do? Stay out of the financial industry when you've been in business for your entire life?
But nothing I do has anything to do with the White House. Nothing I do has anything to do with Washington, D.C. I try and stay as far away from that place as humanly possible.
COLLINS: I wonder how you navigate it. Because last week, your dad threatened a 100 percent tariffs on Chinese imports, and threatened export controls on that. It led to this huge panic sell. It cost some investors billions of -- as you know. I do wonder how you navigate that, and how you deal with that, given, obviously there -- your dad has a lot of power over this industry, and obviously your family also has a pretty big stake in it.
E. TRUMP: I've never been more proud of the U.S.
I mean, we were losing our standing around the world. I would travel around the world, Kaitlan, and people were embarrassed. People were embarrassed by Joe Biden. People were embarrassed by this country. They were embarrassed by the leadership of this country. They were embarrassed by DEI. They were embarrassed by men my size swimming in women's sports. We have a country that's back. We have a country that's doing incredibly well. We have a country, where oil prices is falling tremendously. We have a country, where inflation is back to normal rates. We have a country that everybody wants to be a part of.
My father's brought in close to $17 trillion back into the United States of America, all money that would never have been there before. He's doing amazing things for our economy, and I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled to see it, and I think every American should be applauding from the rooftops, because the guy is doing an unbelievable job. It's exactly what this nation needed at the right time.
COLLINS: Well, but -- you're praising him. And in your book, one thing I was thinking about. I'm on -- here on Capitol Hill. And in your book, you criticize how members of Congress are allowed to buy and sell stock. You don't -- you don't think that should be able to happen. Obviously, that's a big criticism that we've heard from other people.
But when it comes to, you said you have nothing to do with what your father's administration is doing, that he isn't -- doesn't have anything to do with this. But I think some people might want to know, how do you determine whether something is a conflict of interest? Who really is doing that, in this position for you?
E. TRUMP: Well, we have -- obviously, we have external ethics advisers. We take that very, very seriously.
But yes, no, I have a huge problem when Nancy Pelosi front-runs every trade vis-a-vis her husband, three weeks before her legislation gets passed. Yes, I have a real problem with that. I mean, Nancy Pelosi has made Warren Buffett look like a lukewarm investor based on some of her trades, all based on inside information, and I find it disgusting.
I have no inside information. I don't -- I have nothing to do with Washington, D.C. I have nothing to do with any kind of legislation. But no, I find it wholly troublesome when U.S. Senators and Congress people, before they vote on legislation, are putting in trades that double, triple, quadruple their money. I find a real problem with that.
COLLINS: So you don't ever talk about crypto with your dad?
E. TRUMP: I really -- I really don't. I really don't. I mean, my father was a great proponent of the industry, because the industry came out in a very, very big way for my father. My father spoke at all the Bitcoin conferences, obviously as he was running, and even before he was running. And the industry embraced him, and he embraced the industry.
Because guess what? This is the future of finance, right? You can't ignore it. You can't ignore it. America would get run over if you ignored cryptocurrency. Everything is done better, faster, cheaper.
I mean, Kaitlan, you want to go out and get a mortgage for your house. Why -- you go to JPMorgan Chase, it takes you a 120 days to get that mortgage, why? Why? I mean, if you have the assets in the bank, why can't you get the money instantaneously? Why can you not send a wire transfer at 5 o'clock in the afternoon, on a Friday, it won't get there until Monday? Why is -- why is traditional finance so slow? Why is it so antiquated? Why is it so expensive?
COLLINS: Yes, and--
E. TRUMP: There's nothing that can't be done better, cheaper, faster on the blockchain, and that's a beautiful thing for the United States.
COLLINS: I see your point that you're arguing that you think it's better. Obviously, your dad does have a big -- a big stake in the business.
But I want you to hear something that Marjorie Taylor Greene had to say about this. She's a really big supporter of your father's, as you know. This is something that she said, just recently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Have regular people's bank accounts been affected? Has the stress come off? No, that has not happened yet, and that needs to be the major focus. It shouldn't be about helping your crypto donors, or your AI donors, or welcoming in these people that hated you and spent money to try to beat you, but all of a sudden, are excited to come out to the -- to the new Rose Garden patio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What's your reaction to that?
E. TRUMP: I'm not really sure what that means. I mean, I think she's trying to describe lobbyists, and I think that probably -- the person that hates lobbyists the most in Washington, D.C., is my father. He never was supported by lobbyists.
COLLINS: She said, donors.
E. TRUMP: Lobbyists never gave my -- my father any money.
I mean, listen, Kaitlan, in all fairness, you were there with us through it. My father, he self-funded his entire first campaign, minus a little bit of money, you know? If there's one person who wasn't taking money from lobbyists, it was Donald Trump. It seems like everybody else in Washington, D.C. does. But the one person who's never needed lobbyists' money is Donald Trump.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: I was just in the Middle East with your dad. He obviously brokered the ceasefire in Gaza. Was there meeting with a bunch of world leaders on what the future of that is going to look like in the phase two of that agreement, and how to implement that.
There was a moment, where he was speaking with the President of Indonesia. It got a lot of attention. I know you've seen this.
E. TRUMP: Yes.
COLLINS: But I want everyone else to see this as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRABOWO SUBIANTO, PRESIDENT OF INDONESIA: Can I meet Eric?
D. TRUMP: I'll have Eric call. Should I do that? He's such a good boy. I'll have Eric call.
SUBIANTO: (inaudible).
D. TRUMP: Thank you.
SUBIANTO: Yes, yes (inaudible).
D. TRUMP: I'll tell Eric to call you.
SUBIANTO: (inaudible) we'll look for better place.
D. TRUMP: Look for a better place.
SUBIANTO: Yes (inaudible).
D. TRUMP: I'll have one of them call. Thank you. I like that you told me that. We don't need that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Obviously, there are investment projects happening in Indonesia.
First off, have you heard from the President? Has he called you?
E. TRUMP: No, not about that. But I'm glad he acknowledges that I'm a good boy. I am a good boy.
We have two of the biggest projects in Indonesia. We signed those in 2014, 2015, respectively. Got a great project in Bali. We've been working on it for a decade. We've got a great project right outside Jakarta, a great golf course that I operate every single day, incredibly proud of it. It's probably the greatest course in the region.
And so, I'm honored that the President knows about it and clearly asks about it, because they're probably two of the most consequential real estate projects, obviously, in the region that started before my father's first presidency, before my father first even won, probably before he actually started campaigning. And so, I'm honored that he knows about it.
I've never -- I've never met the President of Indonesia. But it doesn't surprise me, given the magnitude and prominence of those projects that-- COLLINS: Yes, but for--
E. TRUMP: --he knows about what I'm doing over there.
COLLINS: For people who see that moment and say, Well, there's supposed to be this wall between the President and his business and what's happening? As you described it, a big wall that was put in place and he's not supposed to be involved in the day-to-day activities.
E. TRUMP: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, what does it say when a world leader clearly thinks he is, and is asking, it seemed, in reference to that, and asking to get in touch with you?
E. TRUMP: I think there's a huge wall. I mean, there's so much of a wall that the guy has never met me. I mean, think about that, Kaitlan, think about your question, right?
I mean, that the President has never met me, and he said, I'd love to meet your son, because I know he has two of the biggest projects in Indonesia that started over a decade ago, before, again, we even got involved in politics. I mean, again, I take that as a great honor, right?
I mean, we've got two very prominent projects, and the guy asked to meet me because he has never met me. And so, I don't know, I think -- I think that probably indicates that there's a pretty damn big wall, right there.
COLLINS: Eric Trump, thank you for your time tonight. The new book is "Under Siege: My Family's Fight to Save Our Nation." Really appreciate you coming on the show.
E. TRUMP: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next here for us. Ahead of his meeting with the Ukrainian president Zelenskyy tomorrow, President Trump today talked about a conversation he had with President Putin, and something that President Zelenskyy has asked for he brought up on that phone call.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: On the heels of brokering that ceasefire deal in Gaza, President Trump has turned his attention, again, to Russia's war in Ukraine. He says he is now scheduling another meeting with President Vladimir Putin, this time in Budapest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you have a timeline or a date set for when?
D. TRUMP: Yes, I would say within two weeks or so. Pretty quick. Marco Rubio is going to be meeting with his counterpart, as you know, Lavrov, and they'll be meeting pretty soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The date has not been set. The President's mention there, of meeting with Putin comes after the two spoke for nearly two and a half hours today. Obviously, those are typically long calls, because of translation.
But it comes ahead of tomorrow's sit-down at the White House with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. He got here today. He is seeking long- range U.S. weapons for his fight. He wants to be able to strike further into Russia.
The President said today he brought that up directly during that call with Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: I did actually say, Would you mind if I gave a couple of thousand Tomahawks to your opposition? I did say that to him. I said it just that way.
He didn't like the idea.
(LAUGHTER)
D. TRUMP: He really didn't like the idea. No, I said it that way. You have to be a little bit light-hearted, sometimes.
REPORTER: Did he specifically ask you not to prove Tomahawks?
D. TRUMP: So -- wouldn't anybody? I mean, it's been in the news. Who wouldn't do that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight is Rahm Emanuel, President Obama's White House Chief of Staff, who also was the U.S. Ambassador to Japan under President Biden.
And so, thank you for being here.
Does it sound to you, when you hear that answer from Trump, that he is going to give Ukraine, Tomahawks?
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF FOR PRES. OBAMA, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN UNDER PRES. BIDEN: Well, he says he's going to do it, and then he backs off.
I mean, we're literally doing this meeting, or having this interview, two months after the meeting in Alaska. And how many times has the President said, We're going to impose sanctions, we're going to impose sanctions? And the deadline slips away?
And every time as the Tomahawk threat came alive, President Putin wants a meeting, and the President gives it to him, and postpones the inevitable decision here. And I think much to -- and I don't think he's assessing correctly, the leverage that the United States has on President Putin, and how vulnerable President Putin is.
COLLINS: Well, and you wrote--
EMANUEL: And I think some a missed opportunity to continue to extend it.
COLLINS: That's an interesting comment, because we have kind of heard that from Republican senators, up here on Capitol Hill, who want those sanctions put in place.
[21:50:00]
And you wrote an Op-Ed in The Journal today, saying that Russia's weakness is Trump's opportunity. You're saying he has the opportunity here to pressure him into ending this war.
Do you believe he's going to take that in the way that we saw, when it came to how he -- how he navigated with other leaders, in situations like this?
EMANUEL: Well, first, the first step is analyzing where President Putin is. He set off to reestablish Russia as an empire of superpower. And when you take a look at the military, it's very weak, and has shown the weapons system is weak. The leadership is weak. Its intelligence is -- we got both Ukraine wrong, Syria wrong, the Wagner Group wrong. He wanted to stop NATO's expansion. Now he has an 800 mile border with Finland, with NATO on the border of Russia.
And the second thing is, he wanted to be seen as a peer with both China and the United States. And he's a pawn for President Xi. So, Armenia, Azerbaijan, rather than doing the settlement in Moscow, the near abroad, they did it in Washington. Moldova just voted to join and be more progressive in its attitude towards EU. On every level, this war has made Russia look weaker and more vulnerable.
Now, I do think the second level of this, Kaitlan, is to then take a look at it and say, Why is the President always with a Bibi Netanyahu, or some European leader, always kind of like a bully, punching down. But when it comes to Xi and Putin, they own him in a way that he gets off-kilter, off his game, when he thinks he's dealing with a peer, and they're not.
And I don't think he's using the vulnerability of President Putin. His economy, with oil prices coming down, is much more vulnerable than before. So, I think at every level, Putin is vulnerable. I don't understand, and can only give my armchair Monday morning quarterback kind of assessment that, for some reason--
COLLINS: Yes.
EMANUEL: --Xi and Putin do not -- he sees them as peers, and he loses his game.
COLLINS: Well, and I think the point you made is one that Zelenskyy kind of is making too. I saw something he posted, as he arrived here in Washington. There's a ton of heavy security already, in the nation's capital, because of his presence here. Which was that when he -- Zelenskyy says that when Putin gets an indication, Trump is going to maybe give Ukraine, the Tomahawks. Then Putin gets involved--
EMANUEL: Yes.
COLLINS: --and tries to say, Well, there's progress happening, we're going to have Lavrov meet with Rubio--
EMANUEL: Yes.
COLLINS: --and maybe have a meeting and whatnot.
EMANUEL: Yes, they -- listen, they kick the can forward, and they postpone the inevitable.
I think the United States, I mean, when you step back and you look at the two wars that have happened, and remember, February is going to be the four year anniversary of Russia's invasion in Ukraine.
You settled what happened in the Middle East on the almost on the two year -- exactly on the two-year anniversary.
And in this case, and in both these cases, I think when you look at the situation, the President has not exerted the pressure that is in a more comprehensive way.
In this situation, in Israel, they were given the time and space to win a war. The United States in this -- in this case, has only given Ukraine the opportunity to not lose a war.
Increase sanctions, increase toughness as it relates to the oil, increase the weapons that go to Ukraine, take off the caps on weapons they have for how far they can strike into Russia. 35 percent of Russia's refining capacity is off the market because Ukraine, on their own, hit it.
COLLINS: Yes.
EMANUEL: If you make Russia vulnerable, they will negotiate at the table. If you don't, they'll just keep kicking the can down the road with you. And Putin is playing, in my view, Trump right now.
COLLINS: Hard to believe it's almost been four years.
Ambassador Rahm Emanuel, thank you for joining tonight.
EMANUEL: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next here. At the White House, the developer-in-chief from the Rose Garden, to the Oval Office, we are seeing the President put his mark on the White House, in a way he did not come close to doing his first term. He now has something planned for the Washington, D.C. Skyline. I'll show you, next
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump is planning for a major new monument to add to the Washington, D.C. Skyline, a triumphal arch built to celebrate the nation's 250th anniversary. This is the proposed monument that would be situated near the Virginia side of the Arlington Memorial Bridge, atop a grassy traffic circle over there. It's directly between the Arlington National Cemetery and the Lincoln Memorial.
A senior White House official told CNN that this arch was Trump's idea. It's not immediately clear how it would be paid for, or how it'd be constructed. But it comes as the President has been making his mark on everything, from the Oval Office, to the Rose Garden, to apparently here at the Skyline in Washington.
Before we go tonight, I want to give you a look at this Sunday's new episode of the CNN Original Series, "Tony Shalhoub Breaking Bread."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TONY SHALHOUB, HOST, "TONY SHALHOUB BREAKING BREAD" (voice-over): Panisse are small discs made from chickpea flour and seasoned with sea salt. Reminiscent of a potato chip and served in paper cones.
SHALHOUB (on camera): Aha.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Voila.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you can have your Panisse with aioli. Aioli is a special mayonnaise we have here.
SHALHOUB (on camera): With garlic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SHALHOUB (on camera): Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
And then we -- and then we don't talk to each other anymore because we will smell garlic.
SHALHOUB (on camera): We can only talk to each other but not to others.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You like it?
SHALHOUB (on camera): Ah, that is so good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's crispy outside, very soft inside.
SHALHOUB (on camera): I can't stop eating these.
[22:00:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's part of the tradition.
SHALHOUB (on camera): I see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you haven't eaten too many of them--
SHALHOUB (on camera): You have to eat--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --you're not a true Marseille.
SHALHOUB (on camera): If you're not feeling a little weird.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You'll be done when you have too many in your stomach.
SHALHOUB (on camera): Yes, I'll know, I'm sure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: OK. Well now I'm starving. The new episode premieres, this Sunday, 09:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. You don't want to miss it.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
