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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Sanctions Russia, Cancels Meeting With Putin; WH Demolishing Entire East Wing, Ballroom Cost Now $300 million; NYC Mayoral Candidates Clash In Fiery Final Debate. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 22, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: --but the NYPD says that they are not participating in this.
And like you said, the problem with all of this is that these federal law enforcement officials are not individuals who normally deal with people on the street.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
PROKUPECZ: Whether it's at the border. Whether it's targeted kind of enforcement. That's not what's going on here.
COOPER: Yes.
PROKUPECZ: So it's a lot of -- there's a lot of concern, certainly.
COOPER: Yes.
Shimon Prokupecz, appreciate you being there. Thank you.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, what President Trump just announced that underscores his true frustration with President Vladimir Putin.
I'm Kaitlan Collins on Capitol Hill. And this is THE SOURCE.
Good evening from Capitol Hill, where House Speaker Mike Johnson is going to join me live, in just moments, on the government shutdown that is very much still underway here.
But we start with the breaking news tonight that is just becoming to starting to get into focus from the White House. And it's a move that underscores the President's frustration with President Putin, with President Trump giving the green light for what his administration is describing as massive sanctions, aimed at the heart of Russia's economy and Putin's war machine funding, which is Russian oil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REPORTER: Mr. President, can you tell us a little bit about why you're elevating sanctions against Russia right now? What's the--
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I just felt it was time. We've waited a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Hitting these two of Russia's biggest oil companies is the President's first big move against Russia this term.
It's worth noting that, unlike European countries, the President's plan does not include punishment for China if it continues to buy Russian oil, despite the fact that China is Russia's largest customer on that front.
The President said he hopes these sanctions won't be in place long, and that China would be handled differently, given he is going to meet with China's leader, Xi Jinping, in the coming days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: These are very big. Those are against their two big oil companies. And we hope that they won't be on for long. We hope that the war will be settled. We just answered having to do with the various forms of missiles and everything else that we're looking at. But we don't think that's going to be necessary.
And I think we'll add -- we'll probably add China into the mix.
REPORTER: Mr. President (inaudible) President Xi to stop purchasing all that Russian oil that's funding this war against Ukraine?
TRUMP: Well, I think I'll be talking to him about it. I think it's a little bit of a different talk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The question of how long we can expect these sanctions to be in place, and what that's going to look like is one I posed directly to the NATO Secretary General, earlier today at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: How long do you expect these sanctions to be in place? Did the President kind of give you any timeline there?
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: I think the Americans should comment on that. That's not for me to comment on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, when it comes to conversations between the President and Russia's president, the phone might be the only way that they are speaking for the foreseeable future, because the President confirmed today he is not going to be meeting with Putin in Budapest after all, after he just said last week that he planned to do so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Didn't feel like we were going to get to the place we have to get, so I canceled it. But we'll do it in the future.
Well, I think that in terms of honesty, the only thing I can say is, every time I speak with Vladimir, I have good conversations, and then they don't go anywhere. They just don't go anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We've seen the President evolve when it comes to sanctions on Russia during his second term in office. Remember, it was back in March when he posted, I am strongly considering large scale Banking Sanctions, Sanctions, and Tariffs on Russia.
In July, he said that he hoped this is a day that would not come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They're very significant, and they're going to be very bad for the countries involved. I mean, they'll be very, very powerful and very bad for the countries involved. And I hope we don't have to pull that string, and maybe we won't. We'll see. It's got to end. We got to stop the killing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And then last month, we heard the President say he was Ready to do major Sanctions on Russia when all NATO Nations have agreed, and started, to do the same thing, and when all NATO Nations STOP BUYING OIL FROM RUSSIA.
On this front tonight, I want to get straight to The New York Times White House and National Security Correspondent, David Sanger, who is joining me.
And David, this all kind of happened pretty quickly today with -- we were out in front of the White House. Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent, said that sanctions against Russia were going to be announced pretty soon.
I think one question everyone has tonight, and from your vantage point in your reporting, how much of an impact are these sanctions actually going to have, do you think?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE & NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "NEW COLD WARS": Kaitlan, it's a little hard to tell right now. And certainly, this is the first major sanction, economic sanction that the Trump administration has put in place.
[21:05:00]
You will remember, when the President's tariffs came out, there were almost no sanctions on Russia, or no specific sanctions on them. And the argument at the time was, how could you negotiate an end of a war with Russia if you're also sanctioning them?
So now they've reversed that, and they've added two (ph) sanctions that the Biden administration had put on. There had been hundreds put on during the Biden years. It's not clear, though, that this is really going to make that big a difference.
If they wanted to make a big difference, they would have done secondary sanctions, which is to say, to punish China, punish India, and others, who actually bought this fuel. Now they've already tried a blockade on exports to India. That doesn't appear to be working yet.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously we've seen the President going back and forth on that. We'll see if China should expect that.
David Sanger, thank you for joining us on this breaking news. It's always great to have you.
And I am here on Capitol Hill tonight. My next source is a powerful Republican voice who has been pushing for Russia sanctions to happen. House Speaker Mike Johnson joins me now.
Thank you so much for being here, Speaker Johnson.
Because you had said before that you thought sanctions on Russia were long overdue, in your words. Do you think that these moves tonight go far enough?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Well, it's a very important step. We applaud the President. He's returning peace through strength, and that's a common theme now that we've seen exhibited around the globe, the strength of his personality.
You heard the U.N. Secretary General, who you caught earlier this afternoon, he said, in his own words, President Trump is the only figure on the planet strong enough to help bring an end to that war.
And you have to compel Russia to engage in the peace process. They've shown they cannot be trusted. There's a big appetite in Congress to have sanctions like this, and I think it's a very important step.
COLLINS: And of course, right now we're here on Capitol Hill. The government shutdown is very much still underway. One question I think a lot of people have tonight is, how long they should be prepared for this to go on for? In your view, do you think the American people should be prepared for this shutdown to last into November?
JOHNSON: The only person who can answer that question is Chuck Schumer and his Democrat colleagues in the Senate. They have now voted a dozen times to keep the government closed.
And this is really important, Kaitlan. Today, there was a big development on Capitol Hill. The second highest ranked House Democrat in leadership, Whip Katherine Clark, admitted, they admitted openly, that they have shut the government down and that they are using hard- working American families as leverage.
For what? So that they can show a fight against Trump, and also so that they can restore $200 billion in free health care paid for by U.S. taxpayers to illegal aliens. Yes, that's in their bill. And it's just part of the $1.5 trillion that they have demanded to spend.
We are not going to do that. They know we're not going to do that.
And she said in her own words today, quote, We know that families will suffer, but this is only one of only the leverage times that we have. She said that in her own words, and it was pretty shocking today, to hear them say that. They usually don't say the quiet parts out loud.
COLLINS: You're saying Democrats are making that argument, talking about what Katherine Clark said today.
I do want you to listen. We've heard an argument, similar to that one, before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Why shouldn't we be trying to force this government shutdown fight to get something out of it that's good for the American people?
RUSSELL VOUGHT, DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED STATES OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: How else are you going to get moderates to vote for spending cuts, if they are not up against the fact that they need to pass these things to get out of a shutdown themselves?
TRUMP: Lot of good can come down from shutdowns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was the President just the other day. But Russ Vought and JD Vance before. I mean, some people might look at that and say, Well, how is what Democrats are doing now different than what Republicans have argued before?
JOHNSON: It's very different. Those were different times and different circumstances. Let me explain why. This is the first time in history that any party has chosen to close the government down on a clean CR.
And in previous shutdown battles, you had a lot of different competing priorities, and you had the party who was engaging in the shutdown making demands and adding their partisan priorities to the CR itself. We didn't do that, Kaitlan. We have a totally clean, totally non- partisan good-faith CR. We passed it 33 days ago. And they have kept the government shut down because they refuse to do it.
It's the first time this has ever happened in history, and it's very audacious. We don't know when the end of this is. Only the Democrats in the Senate can answer that question. And I pray that there's at least five centrist Democrats left who will give up this gambit, do the right thing and get the government open because real people really are suffering because of this. COLLINS: Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville said that if -- he thinks, if President Trump got involved here, he could move this. We heard the similar sentiment from Jeff Van Drew, the Republican House member. He said, We absolutely need the President involved.
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If we're hearing Republicans saying that, and even Democrats like Chuck Schumer saying that, that Trump's got to get involved? Shouldn't the President be directly involved here?
JOHNSON: The President was directly involved. Remember, before this whole thing began, a few days before this shutdown began, and that deadline hit us, the President invited Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries into the Oval Office. I was there. Leader John Thune was there in the Senate. And the President tried to negotiate with them. He tried to appeal to their commonsense, and asked them to do the right thing. And they -- and he was rebuffed.
So, the President has said he's anxious and willing to sit down with them and talk about any issue under the sun, but they have to reopen the government first and not hold the American people hostage, because Kaitlan, that's what's happening right now.
You have troops on the verge of not being paid. You have air traffic controllers who are not being paid. Border Patrol agents. TSA agents. You have nutrition services to people in need. You have veterans' health services. All these things are suspended because the Democrats are playing games right now, and it's really dangerous thing to do.
COLLINS: We heard from one of your members today, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who wrote this morning that on y'all's GOP conference call, she said, Speaker Johnson said he has ideas and pages of policy, but did not say a single policy plan. She said, I find it unacceptable that Republicans are sitting on the sidelines doing nothing to fix this health care disaster that is leading many Americans into financial ruin.
That's her words. She says, you're sitting on the sidelines. What's your response to Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene?
JOHNSON: Well, bless her heart, that's an absurd statement.
Obviously, these conference calls are monitored by media, so we're not going to have actual strategy discussions on a line where you have hundreds of people listening in, because it would be reported on their front page.
We have been working on this for a long time. We worked on it today. We've been working on it every day. Marjorie is not here in Washington. She's not on the committees of jurisdiction, and she's not involved in those specific discussions. But she will be soon, because they'll be related to all the House Republicans.
This was always going to be a discussion and a debate that was going to be held in bipartisan fashion, by the way, in the month of October and November. We know that the end of the year is the end of those COVID-era subsidies, and there's real reforms that have to be made if they're going to be extended. The Democrats knew that. The Republicans knew that. And it was always on the table for discussion.
They have made that a red-herring issue for now, again, because they wanted to show a fight against Trump. This is purely about Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries in New York--
COLLINS: Yes, but--
JOHNSON: --trying to avoid a challenge from a -- from a Marxist candidate in their next reelection cycles. 100 percent, that's why they're doing a 180 degree turn--
COLLINS: But she's--
JOHNSON: --and doing exactly the opposite of what they did as recently as March of this year.
COLLINS: Speaker, she's saying that the Republicans aren't doing anything to address the health care issue here that Democrats are arguing about. Are you saying that there is a Republican plan, and you're just not talking about it?
JOHNSON: No, I'm saying there's lots of discussion about it, but we don't relay it on a conference call with hundreds of people listening in.
We have many ideas on how to bring down the cost of health care, to continue to do that, and we've already demonstrated it. In the Working Families Tax Cut, we had real reforms to Medicaid that you and I have discussed, that have brought down the costs and saved about a $185 billion for taxpayers, and made the program stronger for the people that actually rely upon them, because we got ineligible enrollees off the program.
We have many ideas like that to bring down the cost of health care and increase access and quality of care, and all that will be rolled out in the days ahead. We have plenty of time to do it. It was always going to be done at the last quarter of the year, and that's what we're waiting on.
And that's why we need the Democrats in the Senate to stop this crazy gambit, do the right thing and reopen the government, so we can finish all that work.
COLLINS: But if you have ideas and you have plans, why not have that out there to talk about in the public, so the people can hear that debate happening? I mean, you could have committees in session right now, talking about this.
JOHNSON: They will, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: I think the question is maybe when--
JOHNSON: Yes, we need to get back to regular session-- COLLINS: --because you can't really--
JOHNSON: --so we can.
No -- no, we're not going to allow Chuck Schumer to play selfish political games and hold the American people hostage. We will not negotiate with legislative terrorists. We're not going to let them do that. We can't. We owe it to the people to get this government operated again.
Republicans have now voted 12 or 13 times, counting the House and Senate, 13 times, to open the government. And the Democrats have voted 13 times to close it down. It is wrong. There is no reason for it. And they can't even tell you tonight what it is they're demanding, except for a 100 -- $1.5 trillion in new spending, $200 billion for illegal aliens to get health care. They want to send billions of dollars overseas for wasteful foreign aid programs--
COLLINS: Yes, I just think, Speaker--
JOHNSON: --and all sorts of other stuff.
COLLINS: And we've gone back and forth on, you and I have, on what Democrats want here, and whether or not that's health care for people who are in the country illegally, obviously.
But I think the question is on the health care plan, to Marjorie Taylor Greene's point, is if the government reopened tonight, would Republicans have a plan to address the Obamacare subsidies?
JOHNSON: Yes. Yes, yes. Yes, we do. We have proposals to--
COLLINS: You would have a plan tonight?
JOHNSON: Yes, we could have that ready immediately, yes.
COLLINS: OK. But a proposal's different than a plan.
[21:15:00]
JOHNSON: Yes, because here's the thing. We work in a deliberative public body, and we have hundreds of members. It's a very complicated, very complex issue that requires a long time to build consensus around. We have ideas on the table, and the whole process of the legislative body is to build consensus around it. That's why we have to do that, and that's what we've been planning to do all along.
It was never possible or appropriate to have this decided on a CR, a simple stopgap funding measure for seven weeks, a clean continuing resolution. The Democrats know that, and they are not being truthful about it. And take Whip Clark's words for it. They shut the government down, and they're using hard-working American families, who she says will suffer, and they know it, as leverage for this--
COLLINS: But if it--
JOHNSON: --political game.
COLLINS: If it takes a long time to build consensus, why not bring the House back to talk about the plan that you say you have to fix health care?
JOHNSON: Because the House has done its job. The House passed the CR. We did it over a month ago.
And we need Chuck Schumer and the Democrats to do what they have always done. They did it 13 times during the Biden administration. 13 times. And Chuck Schumer did it most recently, seven or eight months ago, in March of this year, and he gave an impassioned speech on the floor, and said, That's the only possible outcome. You could never possibly shut the government down, because it would be dangerous, and would hurt real Americans.
Well, he was right then.
COLLINS: Yes, yes, and we--
JOHNSON: He's not being honest now.
COLLINS: We've spoken to Democrats about their past statements.
But I think some people might listen to that and say, Yes, the House passed the CR, but then you left town. And the House could come back and work on these other issues, while the Senate deals with how they're trying to reopen the government. No?
JOHNSON: No, well, it would allow -- it would allow Chuck Schumer and the Democrats more time to impose more pain on the American people.
We've done our work. Right now, the House Republicans are in their districts doing extraordinarily important work, by helping their constituents navigate the chaos that is being created by the Democrat shutdown.
They're trying to help their rural hospitals access the funds that we got signed into law, July 4th, before the Democrats try to claw it back. That's one of their counterproposals as well. $50 billion, they want to pull from rural hospitals. It would hurt a lot of Americans.
And they're trying to help small businessowners and young women who rely on the Women, Infants, and Children nutrition programs.
They're trying to help their veterans who can't access health services right now, and constituents who have all sorts of problems because all these federal programs have been shut down because of these political games.
That's what the House Republicans are doing right now. They're working for their constituents.
COLLINS: Yes.
JOHNSON: And that's really, really valuable stuff right now. COLLINS: Yes, and House Democrats will argue, Well, we wanted more in funding for the rural hospitals, a $137 billion, I believe.
But can I ask you, Speaker Johnson, because one thing--
JOHNSON: Well then why did they want to claw it back? Why did they -- why did they file a counterproposal to claw the money back? You should be asking them these tough questions, because it's serious stuff.
COLLINS: One thing that obviously you've been pressed on many times is swearing in new members of Congress. And when it comes to swearing in Representative-elect Adelita Grijalva of Arizona, you have said that you're following the Pelosi precedent and not swearing her in.
I think some people might hear that and say, Since when do you want to be like Nancy Pelosi?
JOHNSON: I don't want to. I'm following standard practice here. And I've explained this many, many times. We are happy to administer the oath to Rep.-elect Grijalva as soon as we get back to legislative session.
And the reason I cite Nancy Pelosi is because she was Speaker for a long time, and she did this multiple times. The same thing.
Julia Letlow from Louisiana, in similar circumstances, was elected to fill the seat of her late husband, who passed away because of COVID. Nancy Pelosi waited 25 days to administer the oath of office to her.
Pat Ryan and Joe Sempolinski were elected during an August recess period. So, Nancy Pelosi waited 21 days until the House returned to legislative session to administer the oath to those new members.
I'm doing exactly the same thing for Rep.-elect Grijalva.
And in the meantime, she can be serving her constituents and trying to help them through this chaos, just like the House Republicans are doing. She has 16 employees. She now has her phones and computers set up.
She can be doing that, directing case work and sending them to get help, even to her two senators who have lots of extra time, because Senator Mark Kelly and Gallego are running around the halls of Capitol Hill, right now, doing TikTok videos. They're staging publicity stunts outside my office. They should be helping Rep.-elect Grijalva help her constituents in Arizona. I wish they'd serve them a little better.
COLLINS: She had said that she was interested in meeting with you and sitting down with you. Is that something that you'd be willing to do?
We're going to have her coming up on the show in just a few moments.
JOHNSON: I'm always open to meet with any member of the House. I'm the Speaker of the House, and will do that. I've been a little busy. I'm working about 22-hour days right now. But I would like for her to do important work and engage in that as soon as possible. And we've tried to -- my staff is working with hers, trying to get them up and running, and we're doing everything we do for any new Rep.-elect in a special election. This is -- all of this is totally and completely the standard practice of the House.
COLLINS: If you -- if you would like for her to do her work. I think some people might hear that and say, Well, if she was sworn in, she'd be able to do all of her work.
[21:20:00]
JOHNSON: The only thing she can't do right now is vote on the floor, because no one is, because we're not in legislative session. That's the only thing she's prevented from doing.
There's a lot of important case work to be done by her constituents who need help and need guidance right now. And she could be on the phone, all day long, as the rest of us are, trying to help her constituents navigate through it.
It's a bit of a red herring for her to say there's nothing for her to do. Maybe the House Democrat leaders need to give her a little guidance on that, as a new member, and help her understand the many ways that she should be serving her folks, right now.
COLLINS: House Speaker Mike Johnson, thank you for joining us tonight.
JOHNSON: Thanks so much.
COLLINS: And as I mentioned, we are going to hear from the new House Democrat from Arizona, later on in the show. She'll be joining me live here.
Plus tonight, the candidates that are hoping to be New York City's mayor just walked off the stage after the final debate before that election. You're going to want to hear what Zohran Mamdani and Andrew Cuomo had to say tonight in a lively debate, to say the least. We have the highlights.
Up next here though. It is that jarring new video showing what was the White House East Wing. It is now barely recognizable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Right over my left shoulder, you can see the demolition of the East Wing that is underway right now. President Trump just weighed in on that, pushing back on claims he hasn't been transparent about what exactly was going to have to take place, for the construction of his new ballroom, here at the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Tonight, the East Wing of the White House is being demolished to make way for President Trump's ballroom, which we are now learning is actually going to be bigger, we expect, than originally planned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: After really a tremendous amount of study with some of the best architects in the world, we determined that really knocking it down, trying to use a little section. You know, the East Wing, was not much, it was not much left from the original.
In order to do it properly, we had to take down the existing structure. The way it was shown, it looked like we were touching the White House. We don't touch the White House. That's a bridge, a glass bridge going from the White House to the ballroom. Then you get into the lobby of the ballroom, and then you go into the magnificent -- the main room. And it's something that has gotten incredible reviews.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Demolition was underway, as the President was showing reporters in the Oval Office today, the renderings of this ballroom. That includes this tabletop model to show what this 90,000-some square foot ballroom is going to look like on the White House grounds.
I'd actually been told, in recent weeks, that the President had been showing visitors who came to the White House two different flat tabletop models, at times, quizzing people on which version they preferred. The smaller one or the larger one. Most people said, the larger one.
And of course, as we saw this play out today, and this demolition now getting outcry from preservationists and critics of the White House. This is what the White House said about what to expect, back in July.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The site of the new ballroom will be where the small, heavily changed and reconstructed East Wing currently sits.
It will come off of the Executive Mansion as it sits today, and the East Wing will be modernized and renovated.
REPORTER: How much of the East Wing will be torn down? The entire East Wing, or just parts of it?
LEAVITT: So the East Wing is going to be modernized. The necessary construction will take place. And for those who are housed in the East Wing, including the Office of the First Lady, the White House Military Office, the White House Visitors Offices, those offices will be temporarily relocated while the East Wing is being modernized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My sources tonight are: Jeff Mason, Reuters' White House correspondent who was in the Oval Office, questioning the President on this front today.
And also, Kate Bennett, former CNN White House correspondent, who covered the East Wing and all of its trappings very closely for us.
And Jeff, you were actually in the Oval Office today. You were asking the President about this, given, you know, saying the East Wing is going to be modernized, I think might be a little bit different than what we're actually watching play out today.
And you asked the President, just in terms of what the public knows about these plans. I want everyone to listen to what the President said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Your response to people who say that you haven't been transparent enough about this?
TRUMP: I haven't been transparent? Really?
MASON: That some of your critics feel it should have gone through a review.
TRUMP: I've shown -- I've shown this to everybody that would listen. Third-rate reporters didn't see it because they didn't look. You're a third-rate reporter, always have been.
MASON: I'm just--
TRUMP: So third-rate reporters didn't look.
But anybody that asked, these -- these pictures have been in newspapers. They've been all over the place. And, you know, we're very proud of it. It's gotten great reviews.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Jeff, I wonder if just from being in there today, and hearing the President talk about this. The White House seems more caught off guard by some of the criticism they've been facing over these images of the East Wing being demolished than maybe they expected.
MASON: And there's been a lot of criticism, because what's happening is not what they suggested was going to happen.
President Trump said initially, when he announced the ballroom project, that it wasn't going to touch the East Wing. And now, of course, the East Wing is being demolished as we speak.
So, it is not what preservationists were expecting. It's not what Democrats and others were expecting. And in fact, even this week, they hadn't announced that it was going to be demolished. People found out about it from pictures and media reports. So yes, I think he's getting a little bit defensive about that. And I would add a little bit of reporting. The background to the question that I was asking was about transparency. And part of that is because people who are familiar with how projects in Washington, D.C., and on federal properties, get done, were expecting a review.
And what I've been told is that the White House still plans to submit the plans for the ballroom to a body that does look over these things. But they're doing it after the -- after the demolition has already occurred. So, it's too late to change anything with regard to the demolition, and that has critics and architects and preservationists and others upset.
[21:30:00]
COLLINS: Yes. Kate, just as someone who covered the East Wing extensively, I wonder what you make of, of what we were watching today.
KATE BENNETT, FORMER CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, AUTHOR, "FREE, MELANIA": I mean, I may push back a little bit here, because we all remember the first Donald Trump presidency. We covered it. Remember it?
We know what's happening now. He's gotten rid of the emissary, the conduit. This is a person who -- a president who wants to host leaders, who wants to host CEOs. He is building a space that is classic Donald Trump. I don't think anyone should be surprised that he's making it bigger, bolder, golder at all, in any sense.
I think the issue here is one of the fact that history is being changed before our very eyes, and there was very little preparation for it. I think people don't understand, necessarily, that the East Wing is really the hub of the first lady's operations. There are also calligraphers and Military Office, as you said, folks that are displaced here.
But I think, every President has modernized the White House in some way. Where you guys sit every day in the Briefing Room, used to be a swimming pool, you know? Presidents have built putting greens. They've -- Melania Trump worked on the Tennis Pavilion, ad nauseum, her first go-around in 2020.
So certainly, improvements, renovations, things are necessary. I think what's happening here is being done in a Trump mega size. Again, D.C. is now the center of the universe in President Trump World, and he's putting a stamp on it, very significantly.
And I do think, Kaitlan, it's interesting, we have not heard from Melania Trump, who--
COLLINS: I was just going to ask you that, Kate. Do we--
BENNETT: Yes.
COLLINS: What do -- you studied Melania Trump closer than anyone, in the first term. How do you think she feels about what's playing out? BENNETT: It's hard to say -- it's always hard to say how she feels. She keeps her world so small. But I think we can see by her silence that she is not -- she is not expressing an opinion about this.
I think, again, when she was in her first term, everything from the rug in the Diplomatic Room, to redoing the White House Rose Garden, she really studied meticulously.
So, to not hear her voice, even a tweet or something to say, Listen, we all honor and respect the history of the East Wing. We look forward to its next iteration, or what have you. I find to be very, very telling.
I think this is esthetics hosting, really bringing the cultural side of this Trump administration to the White House--
COLLINS: Yes.
BENNETT: --is what she typically has done. And this is interesting, she's being very quiet.
COLLINS: Jeff, one question that I've gotten, texted to me non-stop today is, who's paying for this new ballroom?
I want everyone to just listen to the President in his own words on this today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'll do it, and we'll probably have some donors or whatever. But it's about $200 million.
It's going to be a couple of hundred million dollars at least.
I think it'll cost $250 million.
It's about $300 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So today, he said $300 million. I think that's because it's bigger than what they had initially planned, based on our reporting.
But Jeff, they're saying this is going to be funded by private donations. Do we have a full list of what that's going to look like, do we think?
MASON: We do not have a full list. We know that the President had a dinner, just last week, with donors, and with some companies that are slated to give money to the ballroom project. But we have not been given full transparency on the financing.
And I just like to circle back to one thing that Kate was referring to. The Tennis Pavilion that came during President Trump's first term went through a review process. And that is where this is not apples for apples. BENNETT: Right.
MASON: And it's -- you're absolutely right, Kate, to say that many presidents have made changes to the White House. But this one has not gone through a review that architects would like to see.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, the Trumans lived in the Blair House, because--
BENNETT: Yes.
COLLINS: --but they were fixing floors that basically weren't stable. They had to totally change that. That was because it wasn't really livable. It was dangerously unstable.
We will see what this looks like. Obviously, we have cameras now trained on all this construction that's happening.
Jeff Mason, great job today in the Oval.
Kate Bennett, great to have you back here.
So thank you both.
BENNETT: Thanks.
COLLINS: And up next for us here. You've got to see this final debate that just happened tonight in New York City's mayoral race. We're going to show you all the big moments and hear from our political source covering it, right after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: We first just heard from the Republican candidate for mayor, and then we heard from Donald Trump's puppet himself, Andrew Cuomo.
(APPLAUSE)
ANDREW CUOMO, (I) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Zohran is a great actor. He missed his calling.
CURTIS SLIWA, (R) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Andrew, you didn't leave. You fled from being impeached by the Democrats in the state legislature.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
SLIWA: Leave? You fled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: You have never had a job. You have never accomplished anything. There is no reason to believe you have any merit or qualification for 8.5 million lives.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
MAMDANI: We just had a former Governor say in his own words that the city has been getting screwed by the state.
Who was leading the state?
(LAUGHTER)
MAMDANI: It was you.
CUOMO: Governor Hochul.
MAMDANI: You were leading the state for 10 years.
CUOMO: Governor Hochul.
MAMDANI: Screwing this city.
CUOMO: No.
SLIWA: Zohran, your resume could fit on a cocktail napkin.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
SLIWA: And Andrew, your failures could fill a public school library in New York City.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was the last time that Democrat Zohran Mamdani, Independent Andrew Cuomo, and the Republican candidate Curtis Sliwa, will share the debate stage before New York City's mayoral election, which is in 13 days from now.
[21:40:00]
With President Trump's influence hanging over the Big Apple, Mamdani and Cuomo both squared off on how they would deal with him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAMDANI: Donald Trump ran on three promises. He ran on creating the single largest deportation force in American history. He ran on going after his political enemies. And he ran on lowering the cost of living. If he wants to talk to me about the third piece of that agenda? I will always be ready and willing. But if he wants to talk about how to pursue the first and second piece of that agenda, at the expense of New Yorkers? I will fight him every single step of the way.
CUOMO: Donald Trump, I believe, wants Mamdani. That is his dream. Because he will use him politically all across the country. And he will take over New York City. Make no mistake. It will be President Trump and Mayor Trump, and he will come in and take over this city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight is longtime political journalist, Andrew Kirtzman, who is the Author of "Giuliani: The Rise and Tragic Fall of America's Mayor."
And you've been covering this race. I wonder what you made of tonight's moment on the debate stage, which was a big one, a big final one before this -- before this race.
ANDREW KIRTZMAN, AUTHOR, "GIULIANI: THE RISE AND TRAGIC FALL OF AMERICA'S MAYOR," LONGTIME POLITICAL JOURNALIST: Sure. Well, this race has been about Zohran Mamdani for months now.
And tonight, Andrew Cuomo, who has had kind of a listless, joyless campaign for much of this year, kind of woke up, and went in there, trying to kind of knock Mamdani off of this pedestal, and was extremely effective, surprisingly so. Because Mamdani is such an extraordinary communicator. He's a terrific debater. He's always on message. He's disciplined.
I mean, Mamdani is a phenomenon. But tonight, he had two opponents who were in top form, and they were so effective in kind of reducing him that, at one point, they were both laughing at him, from left and right. It was -- it was really kind of painful.
And Mamdani has been almost flawless up until tonight. And this was, for Cuomo and Curtis Sliwa, this was a good night for Mamdani to kind of not be so on.
COLLINS: That's a notable takeaway, given, obviously, as we've been covering this, watching the other debate.
I do -- we have a picture, I believe, tonight, of Andrew Cuomo at the Knicks game, as you can see here, that we are going to show everyone what he's been up to and what he's been doing in that -- moments since that debate happened.
He's sitting next to Eric Adams there, as you can see here, as we're watching this. This was tweeted from the Andrew Cuomo account.
When it comes to what we're watching. There was a moment on the debate stage, where Andrew Cuomo was facing questions from Curtis Sliwa and Mamdani on the harassment allegations from his time as governor that ended it.
I want everyone to listen to that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SLIWA: Do you ever know that no means no? Do you know what no means?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
MAMDANI: One of those women, Charlotte Bennett, is here in the audience, this evening.
What do you say to the 13 women that you sexually harassed?
CUOMO: If you want to be in government, then you have to be serious and mature. There were allegations of sexual harassment. They were then -- went to five district attorneys, fully litigated for four years. The cases were dropped, right? You know that as a fact. So everything you just stated, you just said, was a misstatement, which we're accustomed to--
MAMDANI: Everything that I've stated was a misstatement?
CUOMO: Yes, because the cases -- the cases were dropped. That's what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, Mamdani brought one of the Cuomo accusers there tonight, to the debate. I wonder what you made of how that played out on the stage.
KIRTZMAN: Right. Well, Cuomo -- first of all, is an interesting tactic, and probably something that did rattle Cuomo.
I mean, Cuomo has had a very hard time kind of dealing with that issue. And it's hard to spin. He was forced to resign in a sexual harassment scandal. And he's tried every which way to kind of frame it as something that was way overblown. He was exonerated by several district attorneys who've decided not to press charges. And that's his term, not -- you know, not mine. And -- but it's very, very hard to get out of that thing.
And Mamdani was positively lacerating. I mean, Mamdani is a very, very talented debater. As you can see, he did a very, very good job.
And what you do in a debate like this, is you try to kind of deal with it as quickly as possible and change the subject. And as much as he could, Cuomo did his best as he could tonight.
COLLINS: Well and on one front, in terms of the administration and how they would deal with President Trump. We saw ICE today, arresting people in Downtown Manhattan, today and yesterday, I believe.
And that was a question that they got asked about tonight, is, how would they handle Trump's deportation efforts? And this is what Andrew Cuomo had to say.
[21:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: I've had a lot of dealings with President Trump. And there's only one way to deal with him. He puts his finger in your chest, and you have to put your finger right back in his chest.
You don't send ICE in without coordinating with our police. It's not smart. It's duplicative. And it's dangerous.
I would have called the President, and I would have said, Look, you're way out of bounds. They're way out of bounds. Call them back, or I'm going to have the NYPD step in and stop them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What did you make of that answer?
KIRTZMAN: Look, I mean, Mamdani is so good at kind of framing answers in a crisp, memorable way that it often leads Cuomo to kind of occupy the muddled middle, right?
So, Mamdani has been extremely anti-Trump. One of the reasons for his success, he's kind of given voice for the frustration of so many New Yorkers who just hate Trump, and don't feel like the Democrat -- Democratic leaders have really been fiery enough.
And it leaves Cuomo to be like, Well, you know, I could call Trump and Trump will listen to me, and Trump won't say -- you know, trample over me.
But it's Mamdani on Trump who I think resonates more.
COLLINS: Andrew Kirtzman, it's always great to have you here on the show. Thank you for watching the debate, and giving us your takeaways tonight.
KIRTZMAN: Thank you.
COLLINS: And you just heard earlier tonight what the House Speaker Mike Johnson had to say about why he has not sworn in that new House Democrat from Arizona, Adelita Grijalva. We're going to go straight to the source and get her side of the story, right after this break. Well, she'll join me live here on THE SOURCE.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're live here on Capitol Hill tonight.
Just moments ago, I was speaking with House Speaker Mike Johnson, about why he is still yet to swear in the newest House Democrat elected to Congress. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I'm following standard practice here. And I've explained this many, many times. We are happy to administer the oath to Rep.-elect Grijalva as soon as we get back to legislative session.
It's a bit of a red herring for her to say there's nothing for her to do. Maybe the House Democrat leaders need to give her a little guidance on that, as a new member, and help her understand the many ways that she should be serving her folks, right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And Representative-elect Adelita Grijalva of Arizona is joining me now.
And thank you so much for being here.
What's your reaction to what Speaker Johnson had to say there?
REP.-ELECT ADELITA GRIJALVA, (D) ARIZONA: It's just so patronizing and so misleading. He knows exactly what I can and cannot do. And I feel like he's trolling me, because he's saying that I'm going to TikTok, which I'm not, but that's funny.
But he trolls like -- if I'll say, Here's our office and here's a placard, and I can't get in the door.
Then all of a sudden, the next day, we get a call, Oh, did you want keys?
And then I say, We don't have phones, we don't have internet, we don't have access to different things.
And then I'll have all these people come in and calling, saying, Oh, we're here to look at your internet. We're like, here to look at your phones.
I kind of want to say, We don't have lunch today. Can you just come and bring us lunch?
Because part of the issue is that if I am -- if this is just ceremonial and just a procedure, then why can't I -- can I sign the Epstein files then, if this is just procedure -- like protocol, it's not a big deal?
Respectfully, I don't have constituents until I am sworn in. When I'm sworn in, I have constituents. Until then, I am a tourist in D.C., who does not have an identification to get in through security. I cannot authorize staff to have identification, because I'm the Administrator of the Office. I don't have a budget. I can't open a lease in district.
And the frustration for me is that for 50 years, Arizona has had a Grijalva representing them. My dad has been in elected office for 50. I have been in elected office for 22. Our community knows what it means to have a Grijalva having their back. And so, when they go to my dad's office, and it's locked? It breaks my heart.
And if you call the office right now? It's my dad's voice. I don't have access to any of those, like, to get into voicemail, to change it, to do anything. And so, it is -- it breaks my heart that I know that people are going and asking for help, and we're not there.
COLLINS: Well, and you're talking about how people call, they still hear your dad's voice.
I mean, even on smaller things than that, logistical things, you can't get into Capitol Hill right now, after certain hours because of this shutdown, unless you have a Hill badge. I mean, that's where we're broadcasting from right now.
GRIJALVA: Right.
COLLINS: But you technically could not be on set with us tonight, because you can't come in to the Hill property, this late at night.
GRIJALVA: No, I can't. I could hitch a ride with you maybe. But I can't go on my own.
Because -- I mean, even when, if you saw, I joined the Democratic caucus and walked down Capitol Hill, walked down like that, we took the steps down, and I stood there with them? They had to come -- someone had to come get me from security. I cannot get in without going through security.
I mean, there are logistics and real things that come with being sworn in. And even graciously, the people that are trying to help me get my office up and going, there's so many things that they know I can't do.
COLLINS: Are you worried about how long this could -- this could go on for, if he's not going to swear you in, until the government is reopened?
GRIJALVA: What I'm really worried about is the precedent this is setting. That there is an individual that can suppress the voices of 812,000. That someone else could swear me in, but Speaker Johnson would have to -- there would have to be an Act of Congress. There would have to be a motion, something, he signs a letter. There -- he is in charge of whether I get to be sworn in or not.
And that's why I'm glad that our Attorney General Mayes got involved, because there has to be some pressure and pushback for this one individual--
COLLINS: Yes.
GRIJALVA: --being able to obstruct me swearing -- getting sworn in.
COLLINS: Well, on that front, I asked him if he was willing to meet with you, and he said, as House Speaker, he's willing to meet with any member.
GRIJALVA: Yes. COLLINS: He cited the long days of the shutdown. He said he was working 22-hour days.
Do you still want to meet with him?
[21:55:00]
GRIJALVA: Well, at this point, once we filed lawsuit, I don't think it's advisable for me to have a private conversation with him now.
But I did call, right when I was -- right after I was sworn in, I called his office. Called twice. And also sent a letter, just like, you know -- because he made the statement that there were two Republicans that were sworn in on a pro forma, because they scheduled the swearing in, and they brought their family and friends. And I'm like, Where do I sign up for that deal? I'd love to bring my family and friends and get sworn in, in front of them.
But at this point, I just need to get sworn in.
COLLINS: Congresswoman-elect Adelita Grijalva, we will look forward to having you on when you are fully a Congresswoman.
GRIJALVA: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you for joining us here tonight.
GRIJALVA: Thank you so much. It was my pleasure.
COLLINS: And up next. The Pentagon has just struck another alleged drug smuggling boat, which the President says he has the legal authority to do now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Today, Defense Secretary Hegseth revealed that the U.S. military has conducted a deadly strike against a boat in the Eastern Pacific Ocean, marking an apparent expansion of the campaign against these alleged drug smugglers that we've seen playing out.
This makes this the eighth known strike by the United States. The reason this stands out is because all the previous strikes were in the Caribbean Sea. And in all, officials say that at least 34 people have been killed, including two in this latest attack.
Thanks for joining us live here on Capitol Hill. We'll see you back here, tomorrow night.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts now.
