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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Federal Judges Order WH To Fund Food Stamps Amid Shutdown; Rep. Raskin: Maxwell Receiving "VIP Treatment" At Prison Camp; Cuomo Brushes Off Mamdani's Polling Lead In Final Stretch. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 31, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY LAHIKAINEN, MOTHER OF IAN ALEXANDER LAHIKAINEN: Oh. Yes. What a gift.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: What a gift. Mary Lahikainen, talking about her son, Ian.
You can watch the entire episode from last night. It's online at CNN.com/AllThereIs. That's our grief community page. You'll also find the latest episode of the podcast with the country music star, Luke Bryan.
And I hope you join me live, Thursdays, 09:15 p.m. Eastern every week. Just go to CNN.com/AllThereIsLive. Check it out now.
That's it for us. Have a great weekend. The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts now.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Tonight, a federal judge orders the White House to keep the funds flowing for tens of millions of Americans worried about how to feed their families. The President says he has questions.
I'm Jim Sciutto in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
We are just three hours from marking a full month since the federal government shut down. And inside that building you're looking at, there's not much happening. The Senate, out for the weekend. The House has been out for six weeks and counting.
The President is at Mar-a-Lago, and he had this to say after touching down in Florida.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Q: Mr. President, are you going to meet with Democratic leadership?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm always going to meet. All they have to do is open up the country. Let them open up the country, and we'll meet. We'll meet very quickly. But they have to open up the country. It's their fault. Everything is their fault. It's so easily solved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Everything is their fault, he says.
Trump, looking for a way out of this, without speaking to Democrats, is now pushing Republicans to eliminate the filibuster, which requires 60 votes to pass most pieces of legislation in the Senate. Senate Majority Leader John Thune quickly shot down that idea, while the President, and lawmakers on both sides, are pointing fingers.
More Americans are feeling the impact. Staffing issues at air traffic control across the country are prompting more delays and ground stops at major airports and long lines at security. It's a situation that is likely to get worse with each passing day.
At the same time, a federal judge has granted a last-minute reprieve for some 42 million Americans, facing the prospect of losing access to SNAP or food stamps, tomorrow. The judge ordered the Trump administration to tap emergency funds, quote, As soon as possible, to keep that program for low-income families from running completely dry.
That is the backdrop. The President posted seven times today about what the new luxurious bathrooms he just had redone at the White House. More on that shortly. With the photos.
This evening, he responded to the judge's order, this way: Our Government lawyers do not think we have the legal authority to pay SNAP with certain monies we have available. He went on to write, I have instructed our lawyers to ask the Court to clarify how we can legally fund SNAP as soon as possible... even if we get immediate guidance, it will unfortunately be delayed while states get the money out.
Lots of qualifiers there, but a rare occasion in which the President says he just doesn't have the authority himself to order something to be done.
My lead source tonight is Democratic congressman, Adam Smith of Washington.
Thanks so much for joining, on this Halloween evening.
REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Well, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
SCIUTTO: So, your district alone, I don't have to tell you, has some 42,000 households that rely on SNAP or food stamps.
I wonder, when you heard the President's response tonight to what was a court order. And him saying, Well, I have some questions. We need some clarification. Even if we do clarify, it's going to take some time.
Do you read that as a signal he's going to defy the court's order? SMITH: It's hard to say. I mean, two very dishonest things that President Trump said there, in just a very short period of time. One was, Gosh, I don't know if I can do this or not.
It's very, very clear that he can. Two federal judges just said, not only that he can, but he must. And also, as I understand it, back in 2019, when the government was shut down, he did it, as President, at that point. So it's absolutely not up for debate that he can do this. And so, the fact that he is stalling is just fundamentally dishonest.
And second, I love the phrase, I'm always willing to meet with Democrats, just not right now.
I don't think he understands the meaning of the word, Always. Always means always. And so, obviously he's not willing to meet with Democrats.
[21:05:00]
And we've had government shutdowns before, and we've always stayed in session. First of all, it's just completely unacceptable that Mike Johnson has essentially--
SCIUTTO: Right.
SMITH: --vacated and deactivated the United States House of Representatives since September 19th. When we're in a shutdown, this is when we need to be in, negotiating. And in the past, we've tried to find ways to mitigate that shutdown, tried to find ways out of it. So simply to avoid that, it's just not how we should be handling this situation.
SCIUTTO: The Wall Street Journal is reporting tonight, that Democrats and Republicans were actually making some progress, on a bipartisan deal, to get the government open, again. But that Trump's filibuster threat, threatening or pressuring Republicans to break the filibuster, blew that up.
Were you aware of progress in negotiations to get the government open? And if so, does that threat disrupt those negotiations?
SMITH: Yes. Yes, no -- the senators are talking. God bless John Thune. To this extent, he still believes that he has a job to do. Unlike Mike Johnson. So, he is talking. Senate Republicans, Senate Democrats are talking. I've spoken with some of them, and I'm aware of those conversations, and I think that that is a positive development and where we need to go at this point.
I mean, look, the whole point of this, the biggest point of this, was the health care crisis that is descending on us on November 1st. On October 1st, we Democrats said, You have to address this. And Mike Johnson said, Talk to me on November 21st. But the crisis kicks off before that. But now we're to the point where they haven't addressed it, and the pain is ramping up. How do we get to a better place, since Mike Johnson won't negotiate on this and neither will Trump? So yes, those conversations are going on. I don't think the filibuster thing impacts it one way or the other. One thing I've said, throughout this shutdown, that people need to understand, is this is a Republican budget that they passed through their reconciliation process, and that they passed, last March. And they did it with Republican votes, for the most part. Reconciliation bill, all Republican votes. But because of the filibuster, now they need Democratic votes.
The point of the filibuster is to force Democrats and Republicans to work together. But what Trump decided to do was No, the point is, we're not going to negotiate with you. You just have to vote for our thing.
And that's not the way this is supposed to be approached. If they want to do a straightforward, 100 percent Republican budget, then yes, they ought to get rid of the filibuster, and go ahead, and just have Republicans vote for it. But the better option is to negotiate with Democrats, deal with the health care crisis, get the government back open, and stop the pain that is happening right now for so many Americans. It is only going to get worse, as you said.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. Because you posted, back in May 2021, when Democrats controlled the White House and both chambers of Congress, you wrote, quote, "It's time to get rid of the filibuster to build a more just and equitable nation."
Would you--
SMITH: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Do you still hold that position, regarding the filibuster?
SMITH: I do. Yes, like I said, I mean, yes, I think part of the problem that the -- like I said, the filibuster was designed to force negotiation. It's pretty clear at this point that that's not happening. And what it's really doing is frustrating democracy. Whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, you win, you get in charge, and then you can't do anything.
So, I don't think the filibuster is serving any particularly useful purpose, in terms of forcing negotiation, and it's absolutely frustrating democracy. You have--
SCIUTTO: So, would you--
SMITH: --50 percent plus one, and that's not enough to get something done.
SCIUTTO: If John Thune changed his position? Right now, he says he won't do it. But if he changed his position and busted the filibuster tomorrow, you'd say, Well, hey, that they own -- they own the House and the Senate. That's their right?
SMITH: Yes, I would. Most of -- there's a lot of people who wouldn't. Most Democrats wouldn't. I don't want to attempt to be speaking for the Democratic Party here. But I have long held that view, and I continue to. It is not serving a useful purpose, and it's definitely doing harm.
SCIUTTO: OK. I want to talk about another issue, that's Venezuela. You're Ranking Member on the Armed Services Committee. You were part of a briefing, or non-briefing, given to members of Congress, earlier this week. The U.S. has been taking out, what the Trump administration says are, narco-terrorists with deadly strikes, almost on a daily basis now, sometimes more than once a day.
Are you satisfied with the administration's legal justification provided to the American public and to Congress?
SMITH: No, it's pretty clearly illegal. I mean, look, what the President has decided is to apply the death penalty for drug dealing. That's basically what he's decided. Look, you can have a policy discussion about that. But right now, the policy in the United States of America is, no, we don't do that. Number one.
And number two, if we did, typically, there would be some process. Not only has the President decided on the death penalty for drug dealing. He has decided to be judge, jury and executioner.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SMITH: No, you know, no due process, nothing. He makes the decision.
[21:10:00]
And then the explanations that we receive, Well, who is subject to this basic death sentence? 24 different narco-terrorist groups, which they have not -- I've asked multiple times. I haven't even gotten the list. Maybe the list exists somewhere of who these folks are. But who's in them, and why these 24? Why not others? And then they say, Not only if you're part of those 24 narco-terrorist groups, but if you are, quote, Affiliated with them, you are subject to this--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SMITH: --lethal force order. And we just don't have a clear answer on who this is. So, it's a massive expansion of presidential power without a sufficient explanation.
SCIUTTO: And--
SMITH: Drugs are a major problem. Deal with them, so.
SCIUTTO: And with a new word added to our vocabulary. Narco- terrorists.
But before we go, the U.S. has sent an enormous amount of firepower to Venezuela, or it's on the way. You got a guided-missile destroyer. You've got the most advanced U.S. aircraft carrier diverted from Europe to Venezuela. What do you believe this administration is preparing for, actually? And does that include military action to remove Nicolas Maduro from power?
SMITH: Nobody knows for sure. That's part of the problem. The lack of transparency on this, the lack of explanation to Congress, and the American people, is unprecedented. They haven't even briefed the Intel committees yet on the basis for why they're doing all this.
What I believe is there's multiple things going on. One, President Trump definitely thinks that this is an appropriate response to the drug problem. And part of the thing is OK, so we're blowing up boats with cocaine. This isn't even fentanyl, by the way, which is the main killer in America. This has nothing to do with fentanyl.
But then, the drug traffickers will adjust. If you're blowing up boats in international water, then they're going to ship the stuff in a different place. Well, President Trump, I think, is OK, well, we'll go there.
But to go there, you have to go to the sovereign territory of other nations, not international waters. That's a big step. So, I think he's contemplating that absolutely. Number two, he's contemplating using military force to put pressure on Maduro. The hope that they have is that Maduro will just get scared and leave.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SMITH: I don't see that happening.
And number three, I absolutely think it's in the playbook, is there a way to militarily take him out? And I will just say this, unequivocally, based on the last 25 years, the United States of America should be out of the regime change business. I thought we weren't supposed to be engaging in foreign wars.
So, I think all of those things are on the table in Trump's mind. At this point, it's really hard to say what he's going to do.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And of course, Donald Trump himself, of course, criticized the U.S. war in Iraq, and regime change there as well.
Congressman Adam Smith, thanks so much for joining.
SMITH: Thank you. Really appreciate the chance.
SCIUTTO: Still coming up, tonight. VIP treatment, perks and mysterious visitors. One lawmaker has hard questions about any special treatment, Jeffrey Epstein accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell is now getting in prison.
And former President Obama is hitting the trail just before Election Day. Who he's stumping for and who he might be snubbing, coming up.
Plus, how AK-47s, online chats, and a pumpkin day reference, led the FBI to avert potential ISIS-inspired terror attack, for holiday weekend -- for Halloween weekend.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCIUTTO: Tonight, the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee is demanding answers on what he says is preferential treatment of convicted sex trafficker and Jeffrey Epstein accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell.
In a letter to the warden of Maxwell's federal prison camp, Representative Jamie Raskin is accusing the Texas facility providing Maxwell with, quote, "VIP treatment," "Mysterious visitors," "Meal delivery," and "Other special perks," before stating that quote, "Prison officials have retaliated against inmates who dared to speak out about her fawning preferential treatment."
Remember, Maxwell was transferred there shortly after a sit-down interview with President Trump's Deputy Attorney General, and former personal attorney, Todd Blanche, back in July.
What's going on here?
My source tonight is CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig.
First, in your long experience, in the law, does this happen often? I mean, does a sex offender, against Bureau of Prison policies, right, going to a low-security institution in effect, and then getting all these special perks, the private meetings, the meal delivery, et cetera, does that happen normally? And does that happen after that person meets with the President's lawyer?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Short answer is no, to both of those, Jim.
So two big issues, I think, Jamie Raskin's letter raises. The first one, I'm not really so concerned with the meal delivery and the meeting. Sometimes, that gets confusing and different people have different arrangements.
But what is a big deal is the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell, who was originally in a low-security prison, because she was convicted of child sex offenses was, shortly after the meeting you're talking about, moved to a minimum-security prison, which is the lowest classification in the system. And Jim, not only is that unusual, that takes a waiver.
Somebody within the Justice Department -- the Bureau of Prisons, is part of the Justice Department. Somebody within the Justice Department has to specifically approve that, say, I waive the normal course of proceedings, and I'm OK with Ghislaine Maxwell being moved to a lower- security prison.
To this day, we don't know who actually authorized that, and we've not gotten answers from DOJ about that. So that's issue one.
The other issue that you alluded to, that to me is almost of a bigger concern is, apparently, there are other inmates in this facility, other female inmates, who have spoken out about preferential treatment to Ghislaine Maxwell, and are now being punished.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HONIG: Representative Raskin points out, one particular inmate who appears to have been kicked out of a training program and moved to a higher-security prison. That is a major problem, if that's happening as retaliation.
[21:20:00]
SCIUTTO: So, let me ask you this, Elie. It makes me wonder, what's the quid pro quo? Right? What is -- you don't give someone a gift like that, right, that the transfer and the preferential treatment, I imagine, without expecting something in return. Or at a minimum, it gives that impression.
HONIG: So let's remember the timing here, and people can draw their own conclusions. We don't know for sure that this is a quid pro quo.
But it's hard to ignore the fact that there was this really unprecedented meeting, between the Deputy Attorney General, number two person in the whole Justice Department, Todd Blanche, had spent nine hours over two days, face-to-face with Ghislaine Maxwell. We've now heard the tape of that. And days later, or weeks later--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HONIG: --she gets this favorable transfer. So, I think that's a remaining unanswered question as well.
SCIUTTO: Fair question.
All right. Other story today. Newly unsealed court records reveal that just weeks after Epstein died in jail, apparent suicide, JPMorgan Chase sent the government thousands of Epstein's records, it believed to be suspicious, highlighting over $1 billion in transactions that Epstein engaged in, from 2003 to 2019, with a whole series of companies, Wall Street titans, his former lawyer, others.
Reading through some of the details here, a couple of things stand out to me. There were some Russian banks involved in these transactions. But also, I mean, you had a senior JPMorgan official who was quite personally involved with a woman in Epstein's life here. So, why is JPMorgan revealing all of this at the time that it did?
HONIG: Well, more questions. So first of all, the reason we are learning about this now is because there has been a lawsuit going on, between the Epstein estate, and between these banks, and survivors, also suing the banks. And various media organizations, including CNN, moved to get these documents, which a judge has now ordered unsealed.
SCIUTTO: Right.
HONIG: But again, Jim, more questions. The timing. So, this process of filing a SAR, a Suspicious Activity Report, is a normal thing that banks and financial institutions do, if they see suspicious activity. They send notice over to the Treasury Department. Often, it will then get forwarded to prosecutors at the Justice Department, if necessary. Why would these banks file these SARs, these Suspicious Activity Reports in 2019, after Epstein dies?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HONIG: I mean, this financial activity covers over $1 billion, according to the reporting. It had been going on for years and years. So, there's a question about, was this a legitimate effort to reveal wrongdoing? Or was this a CYA move, as they say?
SCIUTTO: I mean, because it was a bit late, right? I mean, it's after he's already been -- he's already in prison. Had you done a sincere effort--
HONIG: He's dead.
SCIUTTO: I mean, he's dead at that point. Had you made a sincere effort, you imagine--
HONIG: Yes.
SCIUTTO: --you might have turned that up earlier.
HONIG: Right.
SCIUTTO: Elie Honig, thanks so much as always.
HONIG: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, tonight, the FBI says it thwarted a potential ISIS- inspired terrorist attack planned for this Halloween weekend in Michigan. Sources tell CNN the alleged plot was discussed in online chat rooms, and that the participants went to a shooting range with AK-47s, this week, before those agents then swept in
CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller, he's been working his sources all day. He joins us now.
So John, it sounds like, I mean, the training, the weapons, the discussion online, that this was a mature plot, possibly. I mean, they say an imminent one.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, and that was really the catalyst for taking this case down a significant earlier time than they really wanted to, before they were ready.
And my personal experience in the counterterrorism business, I've been in the same position where you're looking at the intent, you're looking at the capability. And as you see the capability, practicing with live firearms, doing rapid reload drills, talking about the holiday coming up on the weekend.
From the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force, out of Detroit's perspective, they're saying, Look, we have -- we're up on their phones. We're reading their communications between each other. We're online with them in the chat rooms. We have 24-hour surveillance. But if they broke away, two of them, three of them, and decided to attack a Halloween party, over the weekend--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
MILLER: --based on that reference, the cryptic one, based on the target practice, would we be in a position to stop that? And the conclusion was, We're running too much risk. We're going to take it down.
SCIUTTO: There was a time, John, when you and I, and others, talked almost every day, right, about ISIS activity in this country and elsewhere. This goes back a few years.
[21:25:00]
Do U.S. authorities believe that ISIS has reconstituted now to the degree that it could potentially direct or at least inspire attacks, or plots, along the lines of this one in the U.S. and the West? I mean, are we -- are we back to a danger zone with ISIS?
MILLER: It's a very insightful question, Jim, because, we haven't seen an ISIS-inspired attack where people were operating as a group, training as a group, planning as a group, and in contact with people overseas, talking about following the ISIS theme of what's an acceptable attack on U.S. soil. So, this case is very different.
The last ISIS-inspired attack we saw was New Year's Day, a lone wolf operating off a propaganda only, not in contact with people overseas, who did that attack in New Orleans, the ramming attack with the truck.
So, what you're talking about is exactly what federal authorities are looking at, which is, we haven't seen this since 2015, 2016, where groups were being recruited online by potential ISIS operators. That's still coming into richer focus, in this case, we'll learn more about that.
But it is a sign that ISIS has been benefiting from leaps in technology. AI alone has allowed them to put out propaganda, the same propaganda that they created in Arabic and in English, but also to put it out in many other languages, simply by using the translation functions that are now available. So, this trend is potentially concerning.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, listen, everybody adapts, right? And everybody attempts to use new technology to their advantage as best they can.
Has Europe seen any re-bubbling up of this -- of this kind of activity, ISIS-inspired or -directed as well?
MILLER: Most definitely. You've seen ISIS-inspired attacks there. But I mean, if you look at things, like the attack on the Opera House in Russia, more than a year ago, and the fact that ISIS recruiting had gone into different demographics, different ethnic groups, targeting Russia on Russian soil, targeting Afghanistan, targeting Iran at the funeral of Qasem Soleimani-- SCIUTTO: Yes.
MILLER: --Iran's own terrorist leader. You see that there is a rebound in ISIS' ability, if not to control large swaths of land or to start the caliphate, to do external operations and keep the pressure on perceived enemies.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Something to watch, for sure.
John Miller, thanks so much.
MILLER: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, four days to go until Election Day. President Obama will be stumping for Democrats here on the East Coast. Where exactly he will hit the trail?
And Extreme Makeover White House Edition. But in this case, not the ballroom.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Tonight, with just four days left in the most closely-watched race in America, Independent candidate Andrew Cuomo, is brushing off Democratic Zohran Mamdani's double-digit polling lead in the New York City's race for mayor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Every major polling is showing Mamdani with a double-digit lead over you. Why do you think it is that New Yorkers are consistently choosing him over you?
ANDREW CUOMO, (I) NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think the race is just starting to take shape. Right? Tuesday is the big day, and I think New Yorkers tend to focus late. Also, he is the Democratic candidate. He won the Democratic primary. So, there's a knee jerk to go with the Democrat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Beat Cuomo in that primary.
He is right that Tuesday is a big day. But nearly half a million New Yorkers have already cast their ballots. That's more than double all early voters in the 2021 mayoral race.
My political sources tonight are CNN Political Commentators, Karen Finney and David Urban.
Good to have you both on.
Karen, first to you. Anything to give Cuomo that hope at this point?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER TO HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: I don't--
SCIUTTO: Or do you think the polls are -- I mean, listen, polls have not always been right. But do you think they're right here?
FINNEY: I think they're pretty accurate, because they've been fairly consistent. And we've heard from New Yorkers, over and over again, that they're tired of Andrew Cuomo, and they--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
FINNEY: --feel like he hasn't done the work of coming into communities and really talking to them.
It's been interesting. If you look at what Mamdani has been doing, for a long time now. He's actually been going into different neighborhoods, going to unique -- he's going to flea markets, he's going to grocery stores, to talk to people where they are. So, I think that takes -- gives a lot of credit with voters if you show up and ask them for their vote.
SCIUTTO: Sure.
David Urban, I wonder, is it possible Republicans would like Mamdani to win, that they think that they could gain some advantage by, then, coloring the entire Democratic Party as democratic socialists or communists, as President Trump will sometimes say?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Yes, Jim, I think that Republicans aren't going to have to do much. I think Mamdani will do that himself.
I think that Democrats are fearful that Mamdani is going to win, because he will occupy the news. New York being the central place that, New York Times, there's so many media outlets, it sucks up so much oxygen. In terms of the media, Mamdani will dominate that. Then Democrats will have to fight it, just as much as anybody. They don't want that narrative.
[21:35:00]
They don't want a narrative of failed policies. Mamdani is going to try to take over grocery stores, free busses, universal health care. There's lots of ideas that Democrats have been espousing for quite some time. That yet, when they're going to be put into practice, are going to fail terribly.
FINNEY: Well--
URBAN: So, I think Republicans would love to see it. Democrats are going to hate to see it.
FINNEY: We had--
SCIUTTO: Karen, your response?
FINNEY: Well, we had a free bus, here in Washington, D.C., called the Circulator, for an awfully long time.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
FINNEY: And it was great for students and low-income people, by the way. Unfortunately, because of budget cuts, we had to end it.
URBAN: Well, there's no -- there's no such thing as free, though.
FINNEY: No -- well, the Circulator was actually free.
But point being, look, I think what's going to be interesting about New York, and I think it's going to be consistent with what we see in New Jersey and Virginia, the top issue is affordability.
SCIUTTO: Right.
FINNEY: The reason that Mamdani, listening to voters -- John King has a great piece. And what do they talk about? They're like, Hey, he's got some new ideas. Let's see. Let's give it a chance. That's a lot of -- you know, similar -- voters said similar things about--
SCIUTTO: I was going to say--
FINNEY: --Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders, by the way. And you had Sanders-Trump voters, so.
SCIUTTO: David Urban, I mean, it does at least share that with Donald Trump's winning message, in 2024, affordability, tried something different. The main parties, they haven't done a job for me--
URBAN: Yes.
SCIUTTO: --the average New Yorker.
URBAN: Now listen, John King, his piece is -- his block that he did on this race was excellent. I think that if you go -- New York voters are sick. They're tired. The rent's too expensive, everything's too expensive to live in Manhattan. He has a point. But I don't think Mamdani's solutions are going to be the right ones.
The point I was trying to make, Karen, was sure, the bus was free, but that means it's not free, as in it's nobody's paying for it.
FINNEY: Well--
URBAN: Somebody's paying for it.
SCIUTTO: Subsidized.
FINNEY: Look, it's--
URBAN: And Mamdani's philosophy is -- yes -- no, Mamdani's philosophy is, We're going to tax the wealthy. We're going to tax white people. We're going to tax corporations.
People are going to leave the city. It's going to -- it's going to flee.
SCIUTTO: Well--
URBAN: That's what's going to happen in New York. And it's going to end up--
FINNEY: I mean--
URBAN: --costing the city, more businesses, more citizens.
FINNEY: Well--
URBAN: It's going to continue a downward spiral.
FINNEY: --Roosevelt did it, and we got Social Security, we got Medicare. We got, you know, we got a lot. I mean, who else--
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: Well that's not all working out so great right now.
SCIUTTO: It's the core--
URBAN: It's all going bankrupt.
SCIUTTO: That's the core of the debate--
FINNEY: Well--
SCIUTTO: That's the core of the debate, right now.
I do want to talk about other races.
FINNEY: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Because we got two big races to watch in New Jersey governor's race and Virginia governor's race.
Karen Finney.
FINNEY: Yes.
SCIUTTO: President Barack Obama, back-to-back stops for Mikie Sherrill in New Jersey, and Abigail Spanberger in Virginia.
I wonder a little bit, in the back of my mind, because I remember Obama going to Pennsylvania, for instance, in October last year.
FINNEY: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Things didn't work out so well for Democrats there.
Is he going because they're worried about how close those races are? Or is he going to bring them over the finish line?
FINNEY: I think it's more about bringing them over the finish line. But look, I think it's also about, we don't take anything for granted, ever, ever, ever, particularly given in New Jersey, where you have federal monitors there, particularly given that you have the presence of ICE and other law enforcement agencies, which is creating pressure in communities with high Latino voters--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
FINNEY: --voting, where we're seeing some suppressive results from that.
SCIUTTO: Sure.
FINNEY: I was hearing about that from folks in Virginia, actually, just last weekend. So, a lot of it is the best way to fight any effort to suppress our votes is to have a huge turnout, so that the results can't be questioned. And so, I think that's more the message there.
SCIUTTO: David Urban, there has been some polling that shows that Republic -- that Hispanic support for Republicans--
URBAN: Yes.
SCIUTTO: --Latino support, has dropped, in some of the polls quite significantly, I'm talking about, like, double-digits, since 2024, in part because of the treatment of Latino immigrants.
Are you -- are Republicans worried that that's going to hurt them in Latino communities, among Latino voters, in races like the ones we're going to see on Tuesday?
URBAN: Yes, I think rightfully so that should be a concern. Anytime you have images of people being zip-tied in parking lots and--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
URBAN: --and that's not what, I don't think that, the vast majority of Republicans voted for, Americans voted for. They want to see bad, you know, bad gang members, violent illegal immigrants taken off the street. But I'm not so sure they want to see some of the images they're seeing.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
URBAN: So, I do believe that did hurt -- that's hurt with a wide swath. I think that Ciattarelli, Mr. Ciattarelli, is mounting a pretty aggressive campaign in New Jersey. The state is, as you know, was fairly purple in the last presidential election.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
URBAN: Came down to 5 percent, 6 percent at the end of the day.
So, I'm not quite sure why Barack Obama is going, other than maybe trying to be relevant. You correctly point out that when he went to Pennsylvania, he kind of stumbled. He kind of stumbled, he made those remarks to the young men, he kind of chastised the young black men about not turning out to vote. And so, I'm not so sure he's going to be so helpful.
Maybe he can go save Jay Jones, the embattled Attorney General in Virginia.
SCIUTTO: Well.
URBAN: Let's see what happens there.
SCIUTTO: OK.
URBAN: If he could pull him across, that'll be something. I think he's going down.
[21:40:00]
SCIUTTO: So, I want to -- before we go. You both agreed, affordability is a big voting issue, for Democrats and Republicans.
So, in the midst of that, President Trump revealed tonight, on social media, pictures of a bathroom renovation in the White House, the Lincoln Bedroom Bathroom, specifically. He highlighted his use of black and white polished marble statuary.
Is this a good look for the Republican president, in the midst of a government shutdown, when affordability is still a topline issue for voters?
URBAN: Jim, listen, this is -- this isn't Donald Trump's house. This is going to -- this is a president's house. It's going to be there for a long time. I don't mind. I don't think the American people mind. I think that this is -- you know, it's--
SCIUTTO: David? David? Gold bathroom?
URBAN: --it's something that has been done.
SCIUTTO: Gold bathroom?
URBAN: They're doing renovations.
SCIUTTO: Gold bathroom?
URBAN: Listen, Jim, you know the saying.
FINNEY: In the People's House.
URBAN: Listen, Jim, you know the saying. What's the saying, Jim? Kitchens and bathrooms sell houses. That's what they're fixing up, OK?
FINNEY: Oh, come on. We don't have to sell it. Come on. It's the People's House. It is gauche. It is so disgusting.
He's not even here, trying to bring people to the table. He's out at his lush resort in Florida. I think it -- I think it galls the American people. URBAN: Listen. You know who could bring everyone to the table? Chuck Schumer. All Chuck Schumer has to do is come back to this -- come back and say--
FINNEY: Has Donald--
URBAN: --release his -- release his members--
SCIUTTO: Well--
URBAN: --to vote yes.
SCIUTTO: As a wise man--
URBAN: The shutdown will end.
SCIUTTO: As a wise man said, earlier in the program, Nothing's free, David Urban.
FINNEY: There you go.
SCIUTTO: Karen Finney. David Urban. Happy Halloween.
URBAN: Thanks, Jim.
FINNEY: Happy Halloween.
URBAN: Happy Halloween.
SCIUTTO: Next Tuesday, please do stay with CNN for results from all the critical races across the country. Our Election Night coverage begins at 05:00 p.m. Eastern, here on CNN, and streaming, of course, on the CNN app.
Coming up next. How the path of Democratic leaders from Barack Obama to Bernie Sanders was paved by Jesse Jackson, and what it means for the future of the party. My colleague, Abby Phillip, speaks with Kaitlan Collins, about her new book.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Nearly 17 years ago, at Grant Park in Chicago, President-elect Barack Obama delivered his historic victory speech, becoming the first black person ever elected to the White House. In the audience watching was a tearful Jesse Jackson.
The civil rights leader turned politician, ran for president twice in the 80s, ushering in a new, groundbreaking era in American politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST AND FORMER SHADOW U.S. SENATOR, D.C.: Many people.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
JACKSON: Many cultures. Many languages.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
JACKSON: With one thing in common. They yearn to breathe free. Common ground!
When we divide, we cannot win. We must find common ground as the basis for survival and development and change, and growth.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And joining me now is CNN's Abby Phillip, whose new book details those impactful campaigns and Jackson's rise in politics, in her new book, "A Dream Deferred: Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power."
And Abby, I wonder, listening to him there, and his campaigns both in 1984 and 1988, as you wrote this book, what stood out to you about what in his politics resonated with people.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR, AUTHOR, "A DREAM DEFERRED": Yes, I mean, I think that clip that you just played there captures a big part of it. Which is that one of the big misconceptions about these campaigns was that he was running a symbolic campaign that was primarily directed at black Americans. And while he was about empowering black Americans to use their vote, it was a message about unity, this idea of hope. Before Hope and Change became Obama's slogan, that was a big part of Jesse Jackson's message.
And it was also not just centered around unity on racial or social issues, but really on economic issues, and that was the big thing. A lot of the stories that I encountered, writing this book, were of people whose -- who were in the South, in Texas and other -- in rural Missouri, who were white, and who maybe were farmers, and others, who basically came out of this campaign, saying, Well, Jesse Jackson is the only person talking about the working man and working woman. And so, the economic piece of his campaigns is a lot of what gets lost in how this campaign is remembered, over those years.
COLLINS: Well, and how does that resonate with what we covered today?
PHILLIP: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, you just interviewed Zohran Mamdani, the other day. That has obviously been the centerpiece of his campaign. It was something AOC talked about. Bernie Sanders. PHILLIP: Yes.
COLLINS: A lot of these more populist progressive figures of our time now.
PHILLIP: And in many ways, all of those people that you mentioned are kind of the heirs of the Jesse Jackson politics.
Bernie Sanders, who I interviewed for this book, he was one of the only white elected officials to endorse Jesse Jackson, in the 1988 campaign. And--
COLLINS: Really?
PHILLIP: Yes. And in many ways, and as he says in the book, to me, Jesse Jackson was a strong influence on his politics. Jesse Jackson, essentially was the sort of forefather of this idea of progressive politics. It wasn't really a term that was used very much until around that time in the 80s.
And in so many ways, Jackson and Sanders were two sides of the same coin. Jesse Jackson endorsed Bernie Sanders in the 2020 campaign -- I don't -- you might remember this, and he did it in Michigan.
[21:50:00]
That was incredibly symbolic, because Michigan was where Jesse Jackson won that caucus, defying expectations, shocking the Democratic establishment. And, in that moment, they thought for a moment, that he could actually be the nominee. He had an outright delegate win after that campaign in Michigan. And so, it was very symbolic for that endorsement of Sanders to happen there, because they are running on essentially the same issues.
Mamdani, same thing. I mean, I think this economic populism tied with social justice is the Jackson message, and we still see it happening in today's politics.
COLLINS: And to see that, how that has resonated from those two campaigns in the 80s to now. I mean, I remember when you first started writing this book--
PHILLIP: Yes.
COLLINS: --and when you wanted to write it, and you were talking about this idea. And I wonder, as you wrote it, and as we've seen the Democratic Party change--
PHILLIP: Yes.
COLLINS: --and, like, lose its identity at times. And there's questions about who is leading the Democratic Party right now. What lessons you think politicians now can take away from what's in your book?
PHILLIP: There is this constant tug of war in the Democratic Party between the moderate centrists, and these sort of populist progressive figures, like Jesse Jackson. That is still happening right now. And when I -- this book has been years in the making. That was the case, years ago, in the 2020 election, the 2016 election, and that debate is still raging right now.
But what is really important, I think, is that this idea of fighting for working men and women, economic populism, is actually up for grabs, not just in the Democratic Party, but between both parties as well. Because Donald Trump is taking a lot of the same populist messages and approaching it from the right-wing side of American politics, and trying to appeal to the very same voters that were Jesse Jackson's base, in the 1980s.
So, I think the big takeaway for me, writing this book, through all these different changes in our politics, is that the fight for working men and women is happening right now. They are a part of the electorate that is up for grabs. And Democrats, what they are doing right now is trying to figure out how to reach them. Candidates like Mamdani are doing it, in New York.
But they still haven't answered the question, whether they can do that successfully, at the national level, and do it in a way that competes with what Trump has been offering voters in the last several election cycles.
COLLINS: Yes.
What a timely read.
PHILLIP: Yes.
COLLINS: Abby, congrats. I'm so excited for you.
PHILLIP: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: The book is "A Dream Deferred: Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power." It is out now, and a must-read.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Still ahead. Today, President Trump was asked what exactly he meant, when he said he wants to resume nuclear testing. We're going to play you his response, next.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Today, on Air Force One, President Trump refused to offer any details about his directive to resume nuclear testing, which caught even some of his own advisers off guard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you talking about literally resuming underground nuclear detonation tests? TRUMP: You'll find out very soon, but we're going to do some testing, yes. Other countries are doing. If they're going to do it, we're going to do it.
REPORTER: OK but you can't clarify whether you will resume--
TRUMP: I'm not going to say yet. I mean I know exactly what we're doing, where we're doing it. But other countries are doing it. And if other countries do it, we do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: To be clear, other countries are not doing actual nuclear testing. North Korea is the only nation to conduct a nuclear detonation, this century.
Some officials say Trump may have been prompted by Russia's recent test of nuclear-capable cruise missiles and torpedoes, some of them powered by nuclear power, though their existence was already known, and the tests did not involve and, this is crucial, an actual detonation.
When pressed by CNN, neither the Defense Department, nor the White House, could offer an explanation of what exactly the President's plan is.
And Trump's own nominee to head U.S. Strategic Command seemed unclear of the president's intent during his confirmation hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICE ADM. RICHARD CORRELL, NOMINEE TO HEAD U.S. STRATEGIC COMMAND: I believe the quote was, start testing our nuclear weapons on an equal basis.
Neither China nor Russia has conducted a nuclear explosive test. So, I'm not reading anything into it or reading anything out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That's the key difference. Nuclear explosions, detonations.
Programming note, before we go tonight. This Sunday, a new episode of the CNN Original Series, "Tony Shalhoub Breaking Bread." It's going to air. Here's a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEROY BUTLER, AMERICAN FORMER FOOTBALL SAFETY: If I didn't have this before a game, I felt like I couldn't play. I mean, it's good.
TONY SHALHOUB, HOST, "TONY SHALHOUB BREAKING BREAD": That is really good.
But what's also great is that this bread, because it's a multi-grain, nine grain, it's crunchy. You're not just getting the soft of the cheese.
BUTLER: As my granddaughter would say, G-Pa, when you buy that, why are you looking at it?
I'll say, We're having a conversation.
(LAUGHTER)
SHALHOUB: I have to tell you, this is the best grilled cheese I've ever had. And whether it's the place--
BUTLER: Yes.
SHALHOUB: --being here with you, the specialist.
[22:00:00]
BUTLER: Yes.
SHALHOUB: Yes.
BUTLER: I'm ready to do the leap now, play the game.
SHALHOUB: I'd like to see that.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Makes your mouth water.
Be sure to tune in. A new episode of "Tony Shalhoub Breaking Bread" premieres Sunday, 09:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only here on CNN.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight. I'm Jim Sciutto. Very happy Halloween to you.
"NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
