Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Endorses Cuomo For NYC Mayor: "You Really Have No Choice"; Thune: Optimistic But Not Confident Of Shutdown Deal This Week; DOJ Defends Trump Posts Calling For Comey To Be Prosecuted. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 03, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You can also watch the entire episode and listen to it as well, at CNN.com/AllThereIs.
In addition, we launched a new weekly online show, called "All There Is Live." It's kind of a companion show to the podcast. It's going to be every Thursday night, live at 09:15 p.m. Eastern Time. I hope it's a place where people living with grief and loss can come together, and not feel so alone in their grief. You can find that also at CNN.com/AllThereIs.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Tonight, on the eve of the mayor's race, in New York City, President Trump just endorsed a longtime rival and a Democrat.
I'm Kaitlan Collins on Capitol Hill. And this is THE SOURCE.
You really have no choice. That was President Trump's closing message to New Yorkers, on the eve of the election that will determine who runs their city, a message that doubles tonight as both an endorsement and a threat.
Hours before the polls open across the country, the President is making an 11th-hour push to stop Zohran Mamdani from becoming New York City's next mayor, and instead urging New Yorkers to vote for Andrew Cuomo. The President again threatened to withhold federal funds to the city, if the Democratic nominee wins, tomorrow night.
And then came the endorsement, with the President writing, quote, "Whether you personally like Andrew Cuomo or not, you really have no choice. You must vote for him, and hope he does a fantastic job. He is capable of it, Mamdani is not."
It's a remarkable endorsement from the biggest name in Republican politics, to a member of a Democratic family dynasty in New York, and it also cements what the President hinted at, in his interview, with "60 Minutes" over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS' SENIOR CORRESPONDENT & 60 MINUTES CONTRIBUTING CORRESPONDENT: What if Mamdani becomes mayor?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's going to be hard for me as the president to give a lot of money to New York. Because if you have a communist running New York, all you're doing is wasting the money you're sending there. So I don't know that he's won, and I'm not a fan of Cuomo one way or the other. But if it's going to be between a bad Democrat and a communist, I'm going to pick the bad Democrat all the time, to be honest with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Zohran Mamdani is a Democratic socialist, not a communist. He did win the Democratic primary, this summer.
And the Mamdani campaign responded quickly to the President's post, this evening, congratulating Andrew Cuomo, sarcastically, and saying, quote, "I know how hard you worked for this."
The candidate himself responded just a short time ago, here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Even just until these final days, he denied that he was Donald Trump's preferred candidate, but now it's written out for the entire world to see. This is the man that Donald Trump wants to be the next mayor of New York City, and not because he'll be good for New Yorkers, but because he'll be good for Donald Trump. And New Yorkers are exhausted of this agenda in Washington. They don't want to see a mimic of it come here to City Hall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, for his part, Cuomo has tried to distance himself from the President's half-endorsement, as he has made his own closing pitch to voters over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: He also said he'd vote for you, sir. How do you respond to that?
ANDREW CUOMO, (I) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: He didn't say that. He didn't say that. He did not say that. He said -- he said 'I'd rather have a bad Democrat than a communist.' That's what he said. He called me a bad Democrat. First of all, I happen to be a good Democrat and a proud Democrat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Earlier today at the White House, before the President's explicit endorsement of Cuomo today, there was a sense that this might not play out as the President had hoped.
I called my colleague, Gloria Pazmino, who's been covering this race and the campaign's final stretch, to talk to her about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK, so I'm here at the White House. And obviously, they are going to be watching closely all of the races happening, tomorrow night, but especially in the mayor's race in New York.
And I couldn't help but think about this that, the President seemed to kind of give Zohran Mamdani, a bit of a gift, yesterday, by saying that if you had to choose between essentially Zohran Mamdani and Andrew Cuomo in this race, he said that he would choose the Democrat every time.
How was the Mamdani campaign feeling about that moment?
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (On Telephone): I mean, gift is a very, very nice way of putting it. They are milking that Trump statement for everything that it is worth.
In fact, today, after Mamdani walked across the Brooklyn Bridge and into City Hall Park to make his closing statement, he talked about how Andrew Cuomo had gotten the quote-unquote endorsement of President Trump last night. You know, it was sort of a final blow to Cuomo in this campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: Of course, we'll see soon what the impact of the President's endorsement has on this race coming as late as it is.
For that matter, there was also this endorsement by Elon Musk today, who also urged his followers to vote for Andrew Cuomo as well.
As far as the President's threat goes, though, to withhold money from New York, should Mamdani win. This is what the candidate himself told me, a few weeks ago, about whether or not and how he's prepared to fight back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: If you were mayor today, and Trump pulled the infrastructure funding, as he did for major projects here in New York, something that Republicans have been trying to convince them to reverse. What would you do specifically to try to stop it?
MAMDANI: I think there are a number of things. The first is, you utilize every legal tool at your disposal. You sue Donald Trump, because too often, what we find is we're treating his pronouncements as if they are legal, just by virtue of them coming from his mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Starting us off tonight, is a Democratic member of Congress, here on Capitol Hill, from a district just outside of New York City, who has endorsed Andrew Cuomo in this race. Congressman Tom Suozzi.
Thank you for being here, sir.
I wonder, do you think that President Trump's endorsement of Andrew Cuomo will help or hurt him, in your view?
REP. TOM SUOZZI (D-NY): It could go either way. You really never know what Donald Trump is thinking.
I'm sure he's got friends of his from New York that are saying, Hey, you know this guy, Mamdani will be terrible for New York. Don't let this guy win.
And then you have his political consultants calling him up and saying, Well, we really hope Mamdani wins, because we can hang that around the Democrats' neck all over the country.
So, who knows what the President's really thinking? Is he trying to help? Is he trying to hurt the campaign? Will it help? Will it hurt?
We need Cuomo to win, to get votes from the people that would otherwise vote for Curtis Sliwa. So maybe this is a message to some of those Independent and Republican voters to say, Don't waste your vote on Mamdani, and give it to Cuomo.
COLLINS: Yes, the President took a shot at Curtis Sliwa, in that post as well, one, saying he looks better not wearing his signature red beret, but also saying that he believes a vote for Curtis Sliwa is a vote for Mamdani basically, in this race.
Can I ask you, though, sir, because you have endorsed Andrew Cuomo in this. Back in 2021, you called on then-Governor Cuomo to resign after the State's Attorney General's investigation into him. Why do you think that he deserves a leadership position now?
SUOZZI: The bottom line is, I've had very big ups and downs with Andrew Cuomo. But the reality is, is that I'm a Democratic capitalist. I'm not a Democratic socialist.
And I don't think that Mamdani, despite the fact he's very smart, he's very charismatic, he's great at social media, I don't think he'd be good for the city. I think he'd be bad for the city. He wants to raise taxes in New York City. He wants to do things that will make living more expensive in New York City.
And we are already facing this tremendous challenge in New York, with people leaving New York, and going to Florida, and going to Texas, and going to North Carolina, going to South Carolina.
When I was born in 1962, there were 42 members of Congress from New York State. Today, there are 26 members from New York State. It's going down to 25, after the next census. We are losing power. We are losing strength, because the population is growing in other states. We have to be competitive with other states. Raising taxes in New York, raising costs in New York, will not help New York survive this competition. COLLINS: You said you think he'd be bad for New York City. Do you think Zohran Mamdani would be bad for Democrats?
SUOZZI: I think it would be bad for people like me, and for other Democrats, in swing seats, throughout the country, because people do not like this idea of going way to the left.
I think Mamdani has been right about diagnosing the problems that exist, people's economic anxiety, much like Donald Trump has been right about diagnosing people's economic anxiety. They're both right about diagnosing the problem. The problem with them is their prescriptions.
Donald Trump's prescriptions of just taking care of his buddies, and increasing the deficit, and raising tariffs, and making costs higher for energy and health care, is not good.
And Zohran Mamdani's ideas of increasing taxes and chasing businesses and people out of New York are not good for New York.
So, the prescription is wrong. The diagnosis is correct. People are economically anxious.
COLLINS: So, do your concerns over Zohran Mamdani's policies and what his leadership of New York City would look like, do those supersede the concerns that you had in 2021 about Andrew Cuomo's ability to lead?
SUOZZI: Well, I know Andrew Cuomo is very capable of getting things done. He did the LaGuardia Airport. He did the Second Avenue Subway. He did Moynihan station. He built bridges. He balanced budgets. He's good at getting things done. Is he -- is he perfect? No, he's got flaws. Everybody's got flaws.
But I think that when looking at the two candidates, head to head, that Andrew Cuomo would be much better for New York City, because he has the experience of operating a multi-billion dollar enterprise, and getting things done in the complex environment of New York politics.
[21:10:00]
And I think one very important thing is Andrew Cuomo will fight back against Donald Trump. We know that. Andrew Cuomo is no pushover. He will fight back, if Donald Trump tries to hurt New York in any way, shape or form. He will be a very good advocate for the city.
COLLINS: Yes, I just ask, because the statement that you put out at the time talked about that investigation, which, as you noted, said that the governor -- it found that the governor had engaged in abusive behavior toward women, including subordinates, and created a hostile work environment and violated state and federal law.
I think, would you be surprised in 2021 that you were endorsing him four years after that?
SUOZZI: I would be shocked that I am doing this. But the reality is, is these are very high stakes right now. There're very serious problems we're facing in New York, and the choice here is very stark. That's why the turnout is so enormous in New York for this election, for the early vote. This is a very high-stakes election, really, about the future of our city.
And so, the people I represent in Queens are very concerned about this race. I'm concerned about this race. And I think all New Yorkers are concerned about this race. And many Americans are concerned about this race. That's why it's so important. And a lot of things that you didn't expect to happen are happening in the course of this race.
COLLINS: You mentioned the President's threat to withhold federal funding from New York City, if Zohran Mamdani wins tomorrow night. Do you believe it's legal for the President to do that?
SUOZZI: Absolutely not. And we will fight the President, tooth and nail, every step of the way, if he tries to hurt New York.
COLLINS: So, you would -- you would work with Zohran Mamdani to fight the President on that, should he win the election tomorrow night?
SUOZZI: People have asked me this question before. You know me, Kaitlan. I'm always talking about how we have to work across party lines. But we also have to work within the Democratic Party. The far- left and the more moderates have to work together.
People have got to work together in government to solve people's problems. So, I'll work with anybody who's a person of goodwill to try and solve problems. And I'll work with Donald Trump, even though I don't agree with him. I'll work with Zohran Mamdani, if he becomes the mayor, even though I don't agree with him. I'll work with anybody to try and make things better.
But I'm endorsing Andrew Cuomo because I think he'd be a better governor -- I mean, sorry -- a better mayor, for the City of New York, than Zohran Mamdani would be.
COLLINS: Speaking of working together. I'm here on Capitol Hill. The government is still shut down tonight. You are part of a small group of bipartisan lawmakers, who have laid out an outline for a potential agreement on how to extend those Affordable Care Act subsidies. They're at the center of this shutdown for Democrats.
Has party leadership, have Democrats -- Democratic leaders signed off on this plan that you and others, including Republicans, have put together?
SUOZZI: It was first reported by someone, I think, from Axios, earlier today, that said, The leadership on both sides doesn't hate the proposal. So, that's a good step forward.
I, along with Congressman Don Bacon, and Congressman Josh Gottheimer, and Jeff Hurd from Colorado, we said, Listen, we got to do something.
The people are -- everybody is saying, Are the Democrats winning this fight? Are the Republicans winning this fight? Everybody's sick of Congress. They're sick of the idea of not getting things done. They're sick of this government shutdown. A lot of people are being hurt by this shutdown. Let's work together to reopen the government, and fix this health care crisis and the affordability of health care.
So, we had to take a chance, and we stepped out on a limb, and said, Listen, let's lay out some contours to extend the premium tax care credits for two years. Let's do income caps between $200,000 and $400,000 a year phased out over that period. And let's make sure people aren't cheating the system. But let's do something, something, to address the affordability of health care, and let's reopen this government, and let's work together.
COLLINS: OK, you said it was misreported, that they don't hate it.
So, do they like it? What would -- how would you characterize it?
SUOZZI: No, no, I didn't say -- no--
COLLINS: Tell us--
SUOZZI: I'm sorry -- I'm sorry, it wasn't misreported. I said it was reported. I apologize if I said misreported.
COLLINS: OK.
SUOZZI: I think it was reported accurately.
COLLINS: So, they don't hate it? That's -- that's what we know, is that the Democratic leadership--
SUOZZI: They don't hate it.
COLLINS: --doesn't hate it?
SUOZZI: Yes. And the Republican leadership doesn't hate it.
COLLINS: OK, that's a marker for success, based on the last--
SUOZZI: We've got to -- listen--
COLLINS: --34 days of shutdown (ph).
SUOZZI: The bottom line is, we've got to do something. I mean -- I mean, nobody's made a proposal for the past 35 days. This is the first thing that's been put out is like, Hey, this would be a good compromise.
I'm on a bill also to extend the premium tax credits for one year that has a bunch of Republicans and Democrats, like 12 of each, that have supported that. The Jennifer Kiggans bill and mine, to extend them for one year. And this is a way to get more people involved in the process.
Let's just find a way forward, to get people to work together, to solve the problems. We're talking about people not being able to eat because they're not getting their SNAP benefits. COLLINS: Yes.
SUOZZI: We're talking about people, who have these important jobs, who are not getting paid. We're talking about people just, you know, just sick of Congress. Let's--
COLLINS: Yes.
SUOZZI: Let's do something.
COLLINS: Yes, I think everyone can agree on that.
Congressman Tom Suozzi, as always, thank you for joining us tonight.
SUOZZI: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And I want to get reaction tonight from a pair of top political veterans who are here with me. Kate Bedingfield and Kevin Madden are here.
[21:15:00]
Kevin, you heard what the Congressman was saying there, that he's not really sure what Trump is doing here with his endorsement of Andrew Cuomo.
Do you think that this is something where -- I mean, I think Trump seems -- as someone who covers Trump closely, I think he seems pretty genuine that he does not want Zohran Mamdani to win. But others have pointed out it would be a good political foil for the White House and for Republicans, they believe.
KEVIN MADDEN, FORMER ROMNEY PRES. CAMPAIGN ADVISER, SENIOR PARTNER, PENTA GROUP: Yes, I don't think this is really about the endorsement politics of GOTV in places like Staten Island, or Queens or anything. Instead, I think it's exactly that, Kaitlan.
I mean, first of all, President Trump doesn't like to see election cycles where he's not the focus. So he's, again, inserting himself into the New York City mayoral race. But then the other part of it is, yes, he's exactly the perfect foil that he wants for the next three years. Somebody who -- somebody like Mamdani, who represents the most radical of Democrat policies.
That contrast with Donald Trump being able to pick a fight, whether it's a political fight, legal fight, legislative fight, funding fights, that's really, I think, his goal right now today, in this endorsement, and I think it'll be an important part of how he uses Mamdani as that political foil over the next three years.
COLLINS: Yes, on the other side of this, though, Kate, obviously, we've seen some Democrats come out and late endorse Zohran Mamdani, people like Hakeem Jeffries. We've seen people not endorse him, people like Chuck Schumer.
I wonder what you make of it from within the party. Because some people have said, There's been nothing that has motivated Democratic voters in the last year, except for, obviously, being against the White House and what they've been doing, whether it's DOGE or whatnot, with federal funding.
Do you believe maybe Democrats are missing a moment with Zohran Mamdani? Or how are you looking at tomorrow night?
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER BIDEN WH COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I do think that what Mamdani has been able to do, to excite a group of voters, who have not been excited about the Democratic Party, for the last five, 10, years, particularly young voters? I think the energy that he's been able to bring in is net, net, a good thing for the party.
I also think that an attempt to kind of overread the results and suggest that if he is victorious in the mayoral race, that this somehow suggests that the party across the nation is moving left? I don't think that bears out. I don't think that's true.
I mean, if you look at, for example, the midterms in President Trump's first term, 2018, you had AOC elected to Congress, you had a lot of lively discussion about whether the party was moving left. And then in the 2019, 2020 presidential primary, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden emerged as the nominee in 2019, 2020. So, I don't think that the outcome of the mayoral race in New York determines what happens with the rest of the party.
But I -- look, I'm somebody, I'm a Democrat, who thinks that the energy that he is bringing in is a good thing, and that Democrats nationally who are wringing their hands about what this means are overthinking it.
COLLINS: I mean, Kevin, when you hear the President say pretty explicitly that he is going to withhold federal funding, he says, except for the bare minimum, which it wasn't totally clear to me, what that -- what that meant, or where that line is for him, from a city, if a candidate he does not like gets elected? I mean, how do you think Republicans should respond to a threat like that?
MADDEN: Well, look, I think Republicans will, again, they'll use it as the perfect sort of foil and contrast for the policies that they won't think are right for the country.
Mamdani represents some really far-left outside-the-mainstream policies. And so, if Donald Trump and congressional Republicans, over the next three years, are in a constant rhetorical battle, and a constant political battle, where Mamdani is on one side, and they're offering what they see as more centrist or even more like -- or more policies that are more grounded in reality and grounded, where the average voter is? That's exactly the type of fight that they want. So, I think you can expect to see more of it.
And look, we all know Donald Trump loves these type of confrontations, and he loves actually doing it on what he would believe is his home turf in New York.
COLLINS: Yes.
Kate. Kevin. We have a lot to talk about in terms of what we're going to be watching for tomorrow. So stick around. We'll be back with you.
But the election year drama is not ending there. Because tonight, yes, the President has endorsed a Democrat in New York. He has not endorsed a Republican, though, in what could be the most important race of all tomorrow night. What race that is, ahead.
And also, the government shutdown, as I mentioned, still underway, and about to be the longest in United States history. Is there a breakthrough tonight? Why the top Republican in the Senate said today, he is optimistic.
And also, that new CNN interview with her own political future in question. What the former House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, said about what she thinks of the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): He's just a vile creature. The worst thing on the face of the Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, after being ordered by a pair of federal judges, the Trump administration says it will use emergency funds for the food stamps that 42 million Americans rely on. But they're only providing half the amount of the benefits for the month, and the people who get them aren't likely to see those payments immediately.
Here on Capitol Hill, the government shutdown is now hurtling towards a record-tying 35th day in just a couple of hours from now, as the administration says it's decided against pulling $4 billion for -- $4 billion from other sources to provide those full benefits for the month of November.
This is all coming, as the top Republican in the Senate over here, that's the Majority Leader, John Thune, says he is optimistic, but not confident, that a deal could be reached as soon as this week.
[21:25:00]
Thune told reporters, Based on sort of my gut of how things operate, I think we're getting close to an off-ramp... There were a lot of conversations over the weekend, and hopefully that will bring about the desired result.
My lead source tonight is the Republican senator, Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma.
And I think that is the question. Do you feel like there's progress here that is going to end this government shutdown? And when?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Yes, well, I think the progress is actually political. I think this ends because the elections are over tomorrow night, right? You have the Virginia governor's race. You have New Jersey's governor race. You have the mayor's race that everybody's talking about.
The Democrats that I spoke with have been very clear that they want to open it back up. Schumer was afraid that they open it back up, that they would lose momentum in those races, that their voters would stay home, and they didn't think the optics were good for them to open it back up until after the election.
So, I think -- you know, we've heard, Kaitlan, that several Democrats have misspoke by saying that the people are leverage, that it only gets better for them. We don't have to go through the names. You guys have heard all the names.
But at the end of the day, this has all been about politics. And so, the political elections are over, and they're going to look for an off-ramp. And off-ramp is, is now.
COLLINS: Yes, and we'd heard Republicans say in previous shutdowns that shutdowns can be leveraged. JD Vance even said it when he was a senator here.
But on that, I'm interested by that, because some people heard, people say, Well, once the No Kings protest is over, once this is over, then Democrats are going to cave.
And they have not yet. No one has broken and voted yes.
MULLIN: Well the No Kings--
COLLINS: So why do you think Tuesday will be different?
MULLIN: And first of all, we wasn't in a shutdown when Vice President JD said that. What he said was, is that election -- or shutdowns can be used as a leverage. That's not -- there's no question. They're in--
COLLINS: I'm just saying he argued for it.
MULLIN: I know. But they're in a shutdown right now, and the Democrats -- the number two Democrat in the House, Kaitlan, Clark said that they're leverage. Senator Coons said there is a leverage. Bernie Sanders said they're a leverage. I mean, they've had multiple people, why they're in the shutdown, and why people are going hungry, why people aren't being paid. You see the long lines throughout the airports, they're saying that--
COLLINS: And we've talked to them about that.
MULLIN: --they're saying that they're leverage points. That's why I said that it was all about politics.
Now, what the difference is, to get to your question about No Kings. No Kings, going into that conversation, a lot of the Democrats thought that they would do that. Schumer had told them that he would allow them to vote the following week.
After the rally, so they -- I mean, you had to -- I think you might even brought it up about it, and The Hill reported that the Democrats feel like now their neck is in a guillotine or -- guillotine that they can't -- that they can't let up now. And then, as the optics continued -- now, this is from my friends that are senators, that are Democrats are saying--
COLLINS: You're saying, Democrats told you this?
MULLIN: Yes, Democrats. And now -- and now, my friends that are senators that are Democrats are now saying that Schumer has told them -- and one of them, I haven't talked to Dick Durbin himself, but one of them said that Dick Durbin pushed Schumer on this, and that Dick Durbin told him -- or that Schumer told Dick Durbin that, Listen, after the election, we'll let you guys go, let you vote on how you want to vote, and open the government back up.
COLLINS: I mean, they've still said they want the ACA subsidies. So, we'll see what happens after the election tomorrow.
MULLIN: Right.
COLLINS: But on SNAP funding. You're on the Senate Appropriations Committee. Obviously, you know how important this funding is to a lot of people.
MULLIN: Yes.
COLLINS: The Trump administration is only funding about half of it. It's about $8 billion to $9 billion that are actually needed per month.
Do you believe that they should find those funds elsewhere, like they've done for paying the military, like they've done for the WIC program, to fund all of SNAP so it doesn't disrupt the program for people who need it so badly?
MULLIN: Well, there's a difference in the programs and the way they're funded. SNAP was a line item funding, and USDA, we didn't get the flexibility to react to it, since it was funded at a certain set amount.
You take DOD -- DOW, Department of War now, and we give them a lot of money to build a flex in the time of emergency. Instead of just appropriating line for line on certain projects, we allow the flexibility in the case of emergency. So, the Department of War was able to shift those funds because not paying the troops is an emergency.
SNAP itself is very specific. I mean, you see how much we fund it. We debate on the amount to fund it every single year. And so, that's why the courts were conflicting, if the President had the authority or not to do this. I would suggest that if there was a President when we wasn't shut down, and if we weren't shut down, that the opposite -- the opposing side would probably scold the President, for trying to use these extraordinary measures to fund the program.
COLLINS: But -- but--
MULLIN: In this case, USDA said they have found some money that the programs not being--
COLLINS: It's their contingency fund.
MULLIN: Yes, yes, the -- the contingency fund, though, wasn't designed for SNAP. It was designed in the case of an emergency for FEMA, like, say, in farmland, we had an additional large amount of--
COLLINS: OK, but let's talk to this--
MULLIN: --farm crop insurance, or something like that.
COLLINS: But think about these people who get the SNAP benefits.
MULLIN: Right.
COLLINS: If they're only paying out half of it, it disrupts how it gets paid out, because they're not getting all of it.
MULLIN: Right.
COLLINS: They might not even get it on time. I mean, what do you say to the 240,000 people in Oklahoma who rely on SNAP benefits?
MULLIN: Well, I would say the Democrats--
COLLINS: Should they not find a way to pay all of it?
[21:30:00]
MULLIN: It's an easy way to pay all of it, Kaitlan. Open the government back up. We're not asking the Democrats to do anything they haven't done before. Vote for the same CR they voted for, four other times. That's simple.
Why they're trying to put the blame on the President of the United States by saying that he should fund it? We are the -- we are the funders of the government. We control the purse strings. Congress does. Not the executive branch. The legislative branch. The best way to make sure those programs are funded is that we open the government back up.
COLLINS: OK. So, you're saying that's the way to--
MULLIN: We're going to vote tomorrow, for the 14th time, for an opportunity for the Democrats to open it up. And guess what? Not half, but a 100 percent of the SNAP program would be funded, if the Democrats voted yes. COLLINS: Well, and the President has started calling, to get rid of the filibuster, to basically bring this to an end. That was -- basically change the requirement of how many votes you need to get that passed. He said, Get rid of the filibuster, and get rid of it now.
Senate Majority Leader John Thune says, The votes are not there.
Which one do you agree with?
MULLIN: That's correct. The votes are not there to get -- to get away with the filibuster.
I get people have a knee-jerk reaction, and want to -- want to have extraordinary measures. The Democrats wanted to get rid of the filibuster. We wanted to get rid of the filibuster in the past. The truth is, it's there to protect. But if you look at the difference, why the Democrats wanted to get rid of the filibuster, and why we do?
We want to get rid of it, and the President wants to get rid of it, so we can govern.
When you start looking at the Democrats, what they would use it for is they would use it to pack the courts, because that's why they got -- tried to get rid of it last time. They would use it to federalize the elections. They were open about that in '21, why they wanted to end the filibuster. They would go after fossil energy. They would go after making Washington, D.C., a state.
There's a difference between the way we want to govern, and the way they want to change politics.
COLLINS: But when Democrats had the majority, they didn't get rid of the filibuster. So, you're saying you--
MULLIN: No.
COLLINS: --you want to keep the filibuster, and you think it should stay?
MULLIN: I'm saying the filibuster has a place, because it--
COLLINS: OK, so you think it should stay?
MULLIN: --because we probably wouldn't -- I mean, chances are we need to win elections all the time. But the truth is, we probably won't always be in the majority in the Senate. And when we're not in the majority, we enjoy the filibuster, and so--
COLLINS: Right, that was Kevin Cramer's point.
MULLIN: Right.
COLLINS: He basically said that, had the filibuster been gone, that it would have benefited Democrats way more than it would have benefited Republicans. MULLIN: 100 percent.
But there's an argument that the President is trying to make here. Is like, if we're going to be in a shutdown and be dysfunctional, if the Democrats are going to continue to be disruptive and put politics over the people, then we might just need to start looking at what the filibuster rules are. Maybe there's some opportunities for us to look at that, limiting the filibuster, in the case like just throwing some stuff out.
COLLINS: But you're against that?
MULLIN: If we -- no. If we were to look at it in a sense of, say, if we were looking at it, and say that, Hey, OK, after the government is shut down for 10 days, maybe we could have limited ability to open the government back up, and bypass filibuster. But to do it with filibuster as a whole, I don't think that's the right move, right now.
COLLINS: The President has been asked twice in the last two weeks about a recent pardon that he signed for the founder of Binance. He goes by the name CZ. Including by me, two weeks ago, and then again this weekend, by "60 Minutes." This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Today, you pardoned the founder of Binance. Can you explain why you chose to pardon him, and did it have anything to do with his involvement in your family's--
TRUMP: Which one? Who is that?
COLLINS: The founder of Binance. He has involvement in your own family's crypto business.
TRUMP: The recent one? Yes the -- I believe we're talking about the same person, because--
COLLINS: CZ.
TRUMP: --I do pardon a lot of people.
I don't know. He was recommended by a lot of people. A lot of people say that -- are you talking about the crypto person?
COLLINS: Yes.
TRUMP: A lot of people say that he wasn't guilty of anything.
O'DONNELL: Why did you pardon him?
TRUMP: OK, are you ready? I don't know who he is. I know he got a four-month sentence or something like that. And I heard it was a Biden witch-hunt.
Well, here's the thing, I know nothing about it because I'm too busy doing the other-- O'DONNELL: But he got a pardon--
TRUMP: I can only tell you that--
O'DONNELL: But he got a pardon.
TRUMP: No, I can only tell you this. My sons are into it. I'm glad they are, because it's probably a great industry, crypto.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, the President know who he's pardoning?
MULLIN: Well, I don't -- I don't know anything about this one. That's the first time I've seen that.
But I would say the President has the authority to pardon people, and that's within his realm to do it. So, I'm not going to question who he pardons or he doesn't pardon.
COLLINS: But the argument from Republicans is that Biden used an autopen for pardons, and that he didn't know who he was pardoning. I mean, Trump is openly saying--
MULLIN: Well, we know that to be true.
COLLINS: --he did not know who he was pardoning.
MULLIN: Well, he said it was recommended to him. So, he said that he -- it was recommended to him. He gets a lot of recommendations, and he pardons a lot of people. Those were -- that was his words.
If you talk about the difference between Biden. Biden, his pardons were an autopen. That's not even up and for discussion.
COLLINS: But Biden also knew -- I mean, he pardoned his family members. He knew who they were.
MULLIN: Well--
COLLINS: So just the--
MULLIN: That was one of how many thousands did he pardon?
So, my point that I'm trying to get to, Kaitlan. I'm not trying to avoid the question. I don't know anything about it. It's the first I've heard about the pardon. The President has a right to pardon who he wants to. I guarantee, he signed the pardon himself, not an autopen. And I know he has to take recommendations. That's what we all do. We take -- you take recommendations. We take -- I take recommendations. We got a great team that works around us.
[21:35:00]
He's got a great team that works around him, and he trusts them. He trusts them good enough that if he thinks -- I mean, he heard -- you heard him say that. If they think they need to be pardoned, that he'll sign the pardon. If he thinks it need to be dug in farther, then they'll dig in farther. He has a right to question whoever he wants, but he also trusts his team around him.
COLLINS: But would you want to know who you're pardoning, if you're pardoning someone?
MULLIN: I'm not the President of the United States, nor the governor of a state. I'm a Senator, one of 100.
COLLINS: Senator Markwayne Mullin, thank you for your time tonight.
MULLIN: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next here for us. How Americans are feeling about President Trump on the eve of what could be a test of the party enthusiasm, since his return to the White House, the first indication of what that looks like.
Also comes as the President has just rolled out a slew of endorsements this evening, one candidate in a major contest tomorrow, though, was noticeably left out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, just hours before the first Election Day of President Trump's second term in office, we are watching two governor races, two key races, that could turn into some referendum on the President's policies. It remains to be seen, tomorrow night. But voters are going to be choosing new governors in New Jersey and in Virginia.
And this evening, the President held a tele-rally in support of the Virginia Republican statewide ticket. But he notably stopped short of publicly endorsing the Commonwealth's lieutenant governor, Winsome Earle-Sears, in her bid for the top job in Richmond.
Kate Bedingfield and Kevin Madden are back with us now.
And Kevin, I mean, if you're Winsome Earle-Sears, you have to be thinking, OK, he endorsed Andrew Cuomo. He's endorsed all these other Republicans tonight. But he has not come out and said that he fully endorses her for this role.
MADDEN: Yes, and this sort of hearkens back to some lukewarm support that Winsome Earle-Sears had for Trump, during the internecine primaries of the -- of 2024.
So, this is one of those things, where in the President doesn't -- and the President and the local party really doesn't have a strong level of support for the top of the ticket, it could have a negative effect on the rest of the ticket. So, not exactly the ideal message that you want, going into Election Day. COLLINS: Well, and Kate, obviously, for Democrats, they have been looking for any kind of silver lining or indication over the last year now. They're watching this race play out with Abigail Spanberger in Virginia, with Mikie Sherrill in New Jersey.
When it comes to, what the future of the Democratic Party is. You said earlier that if Mamdani wins tomorrow night, that that shouldn't be an indication that that's where the party is headed. What are you going to be watching for in the Spanberger race and in the Mikie Sherrill race?
BEDINGFIELD: Well, I think in both, looking at how voters respond to what they're saying about affordability, about cost. I mean, Trump has been a drag on his candidates, in both of these states, in part because people are so unhappy about rising costs, and they're so unhappy about the economy. He's deeply underwater.
And so, as Democrats are looking to 2026 and beyond, to 2028, building a convincing, effective economic message that connects with people, where they are, is the first step to winning some of these races.
And so, I think both Spanberger and Sherrill have done a very good job of putting that front and center in their campaigns. And so, I think seeing some of that battle-tested economic message, assuming it is successful tomorrow, that will be a good roadmap for Democrats in other purple places across the country.
COLLINS: Well, and Kevin, Mikie Sherrill has talked a lot about Donald Trump during her race. This comes as we got new numbers today, showing the President's approval rating at about 37 percent. That would be the lowest of his second term.
And given the economy and affordability that Kate mentioned there, I do think a question is, is, how far are you going to be looking into tomorrow night, as an indication of how voters feel about the White House? Can they -- is that something that people can say, OK, this is a straight rejection of it, or an embrace of it? Or, do you think it's not as committed as that?
MADDEN: No, I don't think it's a broad or a blanket sort of referendum on environment, on national politics. But I do think, and this is where I would probably agree with Kate, in the sense that this is going to be a referendum on people's feeling and their mood about the economy. And so, we are seeing some economic pessimism start to creep in.
And look, this is why Jack Ciattarelli has actually run a very strong race in New Jersey. If you look back to 2024 when -- I'm sorry, if you look back to 2024, when Trump sort of turned a state like New Jersey from blue to a little bit more purple, you saw a shift towards Republican vote -- a shift towards Republicans there, it was because Trump had talked about a lot of the issues related to affordability, crime, immigration. Ciattarelli did the same thing.
I think that's going to be one of the big lessons, is that when you focus on the bread and butter, kitchen-table issues, and you contrast that against big taxing, big spending, Democrats who are soft on crime? That's where you find the perfect contrast. And that will be, I think, one of the big lessons for Republicans, coming out of these elections, as they look forward towards the midterms.
COLLINS: And Kate, the other thing that stood out to me today. Nancy Pelosi. She said that she is not going to announce her reelection decision, whether or not she's running, until after she sees the results of the redistricting push that's happening in California.
She unsurprisingly, had some choice words about President Trump. She was talking to my colleague, Elex Michaelson, earlier, and this is what she said.
[21:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: He's just a vile creature. The worst thing on the face of the Earth. But anyway.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: You think he's the worst thing on the face of the earth?
PELOSI: I do, yes. I do.
MICHAELSON: Why is that?
PELOSI: Because he's the President of the United States, and he does not honor the Constitution of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you think that's the right message for Democrats? I mean, what did you -- I don't think it's surprising that she feels that way to anyone watching, including probably people at the White House. But I wonder what you made of that -- her saying that now.
BEDINGFIELD: Yes, look, I mean, I think Nancy Pelosi has earned the right to say that. She's somebody who has gone up against President Trump many, many times, and has been a vocal -- she's been vocally aggressive about some of the things that he's done, that she believes have really torn at the foundation of the country.
So, I think she's more than earned the right to say that. I don't think anybody watching was surprised to see her say it. I think as she's getting ready, potentially, to retire, she has more than earned the right to speak her mind.
COLLINS: Kate Bedingfield. And Kevin Madden. Thank you both for speaking your minds here. Great to have you both here tonight.
Up next. We do have some new developments, when it comes to the government's case against James Comey. The Justice Department just fired back. And our legal sources are here to tell us what they make of these brand-new filings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: In a new filing tonight, the Justice Department is firing back at the former FBI Director, James Comey, and his push to throw out the charges against him, defending not only the legitimacy of the President's handpicked interim U.S. Attorney, Lindsey Halligan, who brought the case against Comey, and also the case against the New York Attorney General, Letitia James, but also President Trump's social media post that came just days before the Comey indictment, telling Attorney General Pam Bondi, that Comey was guilty as hell.
In today's filing, the Justice Department says that Comey's attempts to toss out his criminal case, quote, "Spins a tale that requires leaps of logic and a big dose of cynicism... None of the President's social-media posts express a desire for the defendant to be penalized for exercising his First Amendment rights. Far from it."
My legal sources are here tonight.
Elliot and Tom, it's great to have you both.
Elliot, when the Justice Department is defending the President's Truth Social post? Which we've asked him about, if he's worried it will interfere in this case. Do you -- what do you make of their argument that this isn't a vindictive prosecution?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Right, they're saying that the President actually believes that Jim Comey is guilty. Therefore, by merely expressing that he believes he is guilty of a crime, he's necessarily not singling out Jim Comey for prosecution.
I think -- and to be clear, where the President is absolutely right, and Tom will agree with me on this, it's exceptionally hard to win a vindictive prosecution motion, right, and when the President makes that point.
What the President doesn't do in the motion today, they focus a lot on that one social media post, but not the host of other statements he's made over the years, about Jim Comey, and other people who were also charged with crimes, namely Tish James. Those really do work against the President here.
And so, if there is the very rare case, in which a defendant might be able to win such a motion? This might be it.
COLLINS: OK. So, in that -- Tom, when you look at these filings from the DOJ, I wonder what stood out to you just given we've seen what James Comey's team was arguing. What do you make of what the Justice Department is arguing overall here?
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, look, I think the Justice Department makes a fair point, and that there's no question that President Trump dislikes James Comey with every fiber of his being. But I do think in fairness, DOJ makes a reasonable point, when they say that, Look, one of the things President Trump said was that Comey is guilty as hell, in the words of the President.
And so, I think what the Justice Department is arguing here is simply saying that, Look, yes, President Trump doesn't like Jim Comey, but this isn't some sort of vindictive prosecution, if you're in a world where the President genuinely believes that Jim Comey broke the law.
COLLINS: I think, when people hear that, they say, OK, but this post came down a few days before Comey gets indicted by the person that Trump had just moved from the West Wing to put in that position. The context of knowing the concerns that other people had.
How do you think a judge is going to read these claims, where they say, you know -- that this is just what the President thinks, and therefore it's not part of this? How does a judge see that?
WILLIAMS: Oh, me? No -- you know, the interesting thing about this is just what the President thinks, Kaitlan, it's these are not equal parties for the purpose of talking about a prosecution.
And one of the points that the President makes in this filing is that, Well, Jim Comey criticized me too. Therefore, I have a right to do so.
And, yes, it's a marketplace of ideas. But when one is the President of the United States, and has the Justice Department underneath him, the whole matter gets complicated.
It's really hard to know what a judge is going to do, Kaitlan, only because, and this is back to the point Tom had made. One, the difficulty in establishing vindictive prosecution. Two, there is evidence against Jim Comey that's in the record. I mean, we shouldn't kid ourselves and say that there isn't any. And so, a judge can go any number of different ways on this, perhaps trying to avoid throwing out the case altogether.
COLLINS: Yes.
WILLIAMS: But one thing the judge could really do is just call for discovery, ask the Justice Department, OK, fine, let's get your memos and your phone calls and your emails and really see if there was a vindictive intent somewhere.
COLLINS: Will the DOJ comply with that, you think, Tom, if that happens?
DUPREE: No. And I would -- look, I would be surprised.
COLLINS: OK.
[21:55:00]
DUPREE: I agree with Elliot on all these points. But one thing I would say is, I don't see the Justice Department willingly agree to allow Comey's defense team to rummage through all of their materials. They ain't going to allow that.
The one thing, Kaitlan, that jumped out at me from all these filings is the aggressiveness with which Comey's defense team is going after Lindsey Halligan here.
COLLINS: Yes.
DUPREE: They have filed pretty much every argument in the book, trying to knock her out of the case, before this case even gets anywhere close to a jury.
COLLINS: Elliot Williams. Tom Dupree. As always, it's great to have both of you here tonight. So, thank you for joining me.
Up next. What President Trump had to say about Andrew no longer being Prince Andrew. An eyebrow-raising answer, after just a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: For the first time, President Trump is weighing in on King Charles' decision to strip his brother, now former Prince Andrew, of his titles, due to his ties to the late sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Prince Andrew in the U.K. has had his royal titles stripped away because of the Epstein scandal. I know you're close to the royal family. Do you have any thoughts on--
TRUMP: I feel very badly. I mean it's a terrible thing that's happened to the family. That's been a tragic situation. And it's too bad. I mean, I feel badly for the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That comes, after Andrew was stripped of his last-remaining military title, over the weekend.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
