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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Vance: Judge's Order To Pay Full SNAP Benefits "Absurd"; Trump Admin. Cuts Flights At 40 Airports Due To Shutdown; Pelosi, First Female House Speaker, Won't Seek Reelection. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 06, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --well, join me in 15 minutes, CNN.com/AllThereIs for the latest episode of All There Is Live.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. Flights are starting to get canceled, and things are starting to get real.
What does Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene have to say about her party's handling of the government shutdown?
I'm Kaitlan Collins on Capitol Hill. And this is THE SOURCE.
And as we come on the air tonight, Americans are bracing for a potential nightmare before Thanksgiving, really starting to feel the effects of this government shutdown, far and wide for the first time.
That's because, starting tomorrow, at 06:00 a.m. to be exact, and every day as the shutdown drags on, the FAA is going to be reducing the number of flights at 40 major airports from coast to coast. That means more cancelations, fewer flight options, and potentially a major headache for millions of people.
American, Delta, United and Southwest have already been among the airlines who are rolling out announcements about flight cancelations, tonight. And hundreds of flights planned for tomorrow have now been grounded. With each passing day, that number is expected to increase.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do have another flight coming back here next week, and that one we're a little bit more concerned about, because I know that the shutdown is going to affect pretty much everything
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am worried about coming home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just hoping to get back safely and not deal with complications.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it's just all unexpected. I'm just sick of it. It's like, What about us?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The Trump administration says ultimately there's going to be a 10 percent reduction in flight traffic for safety reasons, as frustration has been growing among the rank-and-file. This pretty much tells you why. Look at what air traffic controllers got in their form of a paycheck today. You can't really call it a paycheck, because this is for exactly $0.
Here's why President Trump said these flight cuts, which go beyond what we saw during the last government shutdown, when he was in office, are necessary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you at all concerned that it might not be safe to fly right now? And what do you tell people who are gearing up for Thanksgiving?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, no, that's why they're cutting, yes. Fair question. As Sean Duffy announced, they're cutting, in certain areas, 10 percent. And they want to make sure it's 100 percent safe. That's why they're doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And at a time when air travel is already more expensive than ever, some of the guidance from Airlines is to buy two tickets just in case.
Look at what the CEO of Frontier posted on Instagram today, saying, If you are flying Friday or in the next 10 days and need to be there or don't want to be stranded, I highly recommend booking a backup ticket on another carrier.
Hard to believe for some people to do that. And of course, the nationwide pain does not end there.
Tonight, we've also seen a federal judge ordering the Trump administration to fully fund SNAP. That's the food stamps program that 42 million Americans rely on, to help feed their families, this month.
The White House says they are appealing the decision tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: It's an absurd ruling, because you have a federal judge effectively telling us what we have to do in the midst of a Democrat government shutdown. Which, what we'd like to do is for the Democrats to open up the government. Of course, then we can fund SNAP, and we can also do a lot of other good things for the American people.
But in the midst of a shutdown, we can't have a federal court telling the president how he has to triage the situation. We're trying to keep as much turned on, we're trying to keep as much going as possible. The President and the entire administration are working on that. But we're not going to do it under the orders of a federal judge.
The American people are, unfortunately, about to start suffering some very real consequences because of this shutdown. You're going to start seeing very real travel delays. That's because of the Democrat government shutdown. You're going to start seeing SNAP benefits run out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You see the Vice President there, declaring the judge's order to fully fund food stamps as, quote, "Absurd," and warning of more pain to come at the airport, at the dinner table, and also putting the blame squarely on Democrats, as the White House has managed to find funding during the shutdown for other programs, of course, as we've seen.
Even as we've seen lines growing at food banks across the country, the President tonight said he has already fixed the problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Groceries are way down. Everything is way down. And the press doesn't report it. The press reports whatever the con people say. You know, I call the Democrats, con men and women. They make up numbers.
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But when you look at 25 percent reduction in costs for Thanksgiving, between Biden and me, meaning this administration, that's a tremendous number. That a tremendous -- it's the biggest reduction in cost in the history of that chart, or whatever it is they do that, they do a synopsis of everything. They cover every element of Thanksgiving meals, 25 percent down. So, I don't want to hear about the affordability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My lead source tonight is a Republican who has been calling for her own party to do more when it comes to bringing down prices. Georgia congresswoman, Marjorie Taylor Greene, is here with me on Capitol Hill tonight.
And thank you so much for being here.
Can I first get your take on the federal judge's ruling, saying that they've got to fund all of SNAP, for these 42 million people who need it so desperately, obviously. Do you think that the ruling is absurd?
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Well, I think it's the role of Congress, the House and the Senate, to fund the government. And I don't like the -- I agree with the Vice President. I don't like the idea of judges taking over our role.
However, to follow that up, I am absolutely appalled and disgusted at this standstill between Democrats and Republicans in the Senate. Kaitlan, I voted to fund the government on September 18th. We passed the CR out of the House. And here it is today, November 6, and this is still going on.
And so, it's true that the Democrats can fund the government, fund SNAP, and all of the programs, at any time, by voting for the same CR that they have voted for over and over. But at the same time, Republicans can use the nuclear option, just like they did, to get through the President's nominees, and they can go through the filibuster, and they can also fund the government.
And I think this is hurting the American people. And I think it's hurting Congress, and our ratings, most of all.
COLLINS: Well, and we talk about these flight cancelation. Delta, obviously, in Atlanta, in your home state, has the biggest hub, the busiest airport in the world, also.
TAYLOR GREENE: Yes.
COLLINS: How worried are you about what it's going to look like for people, starting tomorrow, with these flight cancelations?
TAYLOR GREENE: I think it's going to start looking like chaos, really. Many people are very worried about this. It's causing a lot of anxiety.
Many people are already struggling, day to day, month to month, with the cost of living. It has remained high. It was 9 percent inflation under Joe Biden in 2022. I give the Trump administration credit. They've kept it around 2.5 percent inflation. But that's still not helping Americans. And with this upcoming crisis, with health insurance premiums skyrocketing, I think this is like a five-alarm fire.
And, to me, it is incredibly embarrassing, and I find absolutely pathetic, really, that all of us are not here in Washington, D.C., working every single day, to make sure that we can get the government open, but also solve the problem of affordability for the American people, and come up with a good solution, once and for all, for health insurance.
COLLINS: Yes, when the President says there's virtually no inflation, and that grocery prices are going down, do you agree with him on that?
TAYLOR GREENE: No. I go to the grocery store myself. Grocery prices remain high. Energy prices are high. My electricity bills are higher here in Washington, D.C., at my apartment, and they're also higher at my House in Rome, Georgia, higher than they were a year ago. So, affordability is a problem.
And I'm a mom. My kids are 22, 26 and 28. That's the generation I worry about the most, and they're having a very hard time.
But when I go back home, and I talk to many of my constituents, I'm hearing stories of not only are we having a really hard time affording groceries and rent and things like that. But I'm also hearing stories about people maxing out their credit cards, just to afford their monthly expenses.
COLLINS: So when the President says that? It's not that affordability hasn't been fixed. It's that people and Republicans aren't talking about it enough. That seemed to be a takeaway of his, from Tuesday night's elections.
You disagree with that sentiment?
TAYLOR GREENE: I think Tuesday was definitely a referendum on how leaders in this country are leading. And I believe in America First policies. That's why I campaigned for President Trump, and have supported him as long as I have, and I do support him. But I want all of my colleagues to come through in action, in supporting America First policies. And I think the American people showed that on Tuesday.
You're not going to convince them to go to the polls and vote by bailing out Argentina. And you're not going to convince them to go to the polls and vote by continuing to fund foreign wars and foreign countries and foreign causes. You're going to get them to go to the polls and vote, when you show up to work, and actually fix the problems that they face every single day.
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COLLINS: And so, one thing that the President said there, and I'm sure a bunch of your constituents, a bunch of people you know in Georgia, shop at Walmart and go there. The President keeps talking about the Walmart Thanksgiving meal, where they put everything together that you buy for the holiday, that it's less expensive under him than it was under President Biden.
But actually, when you look at it, it's because it has fewer items in it. And they're the Great Value brand. They're not -- they're generic store brand. They're not name brand.
TAYLOR GREENE: Right.
COLLINS: Do you think that he is getting good information from those around him? Or what do you think it is why he keeps repeating something that's not true?
TAYLOR GREENE: Well, I think every president, no matter who they are, are basically in a cone of information by the people that they have working for them and are around them. So, that could be the case here.
And certainly, I'll give credit to Walmart for offering lower prices. Americans definitely need that. And I'm sure the President was proud to talk about it.
COLLINS: When it comes to the government shutdown. You've talked about Democrats. You talked about the House passing the CR. Do you agree with the President that Republicans are bearing more of the blame than Democrats, it seems?
TAYLOR GREENE: I do. Because Americans know that Republicans control the House and the Senate, and they're looking and going, Well, why are you shut down?
And also, I'll go back to this. Senate Republicans can use the nuclear option, and override the filibuster, and open up this country today.
And so, I put blame on both Republicans and Democrats for basically, Kaitlan -- can't say it on CNN, but it's basically a, You know what, measuring contest between the men in leadership. And I think the country is sick and tired of it.
COLLINS: Well, on that front, you said something the other day that caught my -- you said that there's a lot of weak Republican men in Congress. Who exactly are you referring to?
TAYLOR GREENE: Many of my colleagues.
I campaigned with President Trump, and all over the country, for years, really. And hardly any of them truly supported President Trump. But when it became clear that he was going to win, they ran out and bought their first MAGA hat and put it on, and -- but I think we're seeing what's happening.
And I like Mike Johnson a lot. He's a very nice man. But forcing Congress to stay home, when the American people are showing up and working every single day? And now going to have to start dealing with flight delays. And women and children aren't getting WIC. And these -- and these SNAP recipients aren't getting their SNAP benefits. And federal workers are not getting paid. Even the Capitol Police that escort myself and others through the airport when -- for security reasons, they are not getting paid. The list goes on and on and on.
I do believe that when you have the responsibility of leadership, you need to take that very seriously. And unfortunately, I'm not seeing that right now.
COLLINS: Speaker Mike Johnson actually addressed your criticism of him today, in an interview. I want you to listen to what he had to say about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I'm not unaccustomed to hearing criticism from Marjorie. We have intense fellowship, as we say in the Deep South, Stephen.
And she knows I've got an open door. She can come in and talk with me anytime. But, you know, she goes on these shows. She likes to get the big interviews, and that's fine. Everybody has the right, you know?
But I will tell you this. I'm in constant contact with all the House Republicans. And the reason we've not brought them back yet is because we did our job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR GREENE: I heard from the Speaker today, and he asked me if I wanted to talk about health insurance policy ideas. I said yes, and I said, I'll have my staff reach out to yours and find some time on your schedule.
Unfortunately, they replied back, he's not available until next week. I'm not here in Washington, next week. I have talked with him through text messages and on our weekly conference calls. We have a weekly conference call.
But my demand to my Speaker that I voted for, so I think I get to make these demands, is that he brings our House back into session. We get back to work, work on our committees, passing our bills, passing the agenda the American people voted for and can soon return to business.
But also, I want a health insurance policy plan for this country. Democrats passed the ACA, back in 2010. They passed the tax credits in 2021. They're expiring now. And every single American can tell you, health insurance is absolutely unaffordable, and it's a crisis. And so, I will continue to demand these plans.
People push back on me and say, Why don't you introduce a bill yourself? I certainly can do that. But the only person that brings the bills to the floor is the Speaker of the House. And every member of Congress will tell you that we've got stacks of bills that we would love to get a vote. And I don't -- I don't think that would solve anything.
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COLLINS: Do you have health care policy proposals to bring to Mike Johnson?
TAYLOR GREENE: I have been spending the last month, talking to many experts in the field and -- but Mike Johnson keeps saying that they've got -- he's got pages and pages of policy ideas. He tells that to the press every single day. Well, he hasn't presented any of those to our Conference.
And everyone knows that there is no way to pass a package of bills, or even one bill, unless you build consensus among your members.
COLLINS: He--
TAYLOR GREENE: And that hasn't happened yet.
COLLINS: He told us, when we had him on the show, a few weeks ago, that if the government reopened tomorrow -- and this was two weeks ago, probably -- that Republicans would have a health care plan.
Do you believe that?
TAYLOR GREENE: No, because I haven't seen it yet.
COLLINS: And earlier, you praised former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, to my colleagues, Wolf Blitzer and Pamela Brown. It might surprise a lot of people to hear you praise her time as Speaker.
Do you think Speaker Johnson fights as hard for your side as she fought for hers?
TAYLOR GREENE: I praised her because she did fight for her side. Do I agree with her? No. Did I vote for her bills? I did not. However, I respect her greatly because she accomplished more for her party than I've seen our Speaker accomplish for ours.
COLLINS: The one spot where you've broken with the White House -- you obviously are a fierce advocate of the President's -- but one spot where you've broken with the administration is on foreign policy, and the lot of the travel he's had recently.
Tonight at the White House, he was hosting Central Asian leaders. This is part of an effort to counter China.
And I want you to listen to something he said yesterday that his administration might do, regarding Nigeria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to do things to Nigeria that Nigeria is not going to be happy about, and may very well go into that now disgraced country, guns-a-blazing, to completely wipe out the Islamic terrorists who are committing these horrible, horrible atrocities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you believe the President threatening to send in the U.S. military to Nigeria, does that align with what you view as America First?
TAYLOR GREENE: Well, I'm a Christian, and I'm certainly against Christian persecution anywhere in the world. I've been outspoken about that.
There's also Christian persecution in the West Bank and in Gaza, and I think that should be addressed with our greatest ally, Israel.
I also -- there's also Christian persecution that happened in Syria, and I believe that that country's leader, who's former al Qaeda, is coming to the White House, I think tomorrow.
COLLINS: On Monday, yes.
TAYLOR GREENE: Yes -- or on Monday.
Of course, I don't want to see Christian persecution anywhere. However, I believe that our foreign policy, right now, needs to be strong on trade, which will help our economy, and I think our focus needs to be solidly on domestic policy.
COLLINS: I want to ask you, because obviously you have done a lot of more mainstream interviews, or you went on "The View." You've done CNN. You've gone some places that maybe viewers have not seen you before, or heard from you before.
TAYLOR GREENE: Yes.
COLLINS: Jonathan Chait writes in "The Atlantic" today, I'm not sure if you saw this, and the headline was, Is Marjorie Taylor Greene Playing Three-Dimensional Chess?
And he said that you are essentially doing to Trump what Trump did to the Republican Party of George W. Bush. You're recognizing the gaping void between the values of the party's leaders and those of its followers, and ruthlessly exploiting it. And he basically goes on to make the case that you are trying to position yourself at the front of MAGA.
What would you say to that?
TAYLOR GREENE: Actually, I'm doing exactly what I've done the entire time. I ran for Congress, in 2020, criticizing Republicans and Democrats equally. And one of my campaign lines was, I'll go to Washington and hold Republicans accountable. And that's exactly what I'm trying to do right now, is hold the Republican Party accountable to work for the American people on the promises that they made.
I'm one of those Americans that feels disenfranchised by my government, and I feel that our government has failed the American people, on both sides of the aisle, and I see that all over my rural district.
And so, I'm simply here, saying, Let's get back to work and let's actually do the things that we promised. And that's the only way that's going to save our country. And I mean that as a mother, because my kids are 22, 26 and 28, and it's that generation that I'm most worried about.
COLLINS: But people might think it's remarkable to hear you say you're disenfranchised with your government. You're a sitting member of Congress. Republicans are in charge of the House. They control the Senate.
TAYLOR GREENE: Yes.
COLLINS: And the President that you advocated for and campaigned for is in the White House.
And yet you're still disenfranchised with that leadership.
TAYLOR GREENE: Yes, because, guess what? I'm not allowed to work, and I'm not allowed to represent my district, and we're not even passing our appropriations.
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And my rural district is the type of district when they -- when they have appropriation requests, they're extremely important. These are small towns, so they may be asking for something important for a water plant or a road or a bridge, and they don't have the type of tax base or funding that they're able to just easily fix those things.
COLLINS: I wonder how you feel about someone like Adelita Grijalva, who -- I mean, you say you can't work for your district because the House is out of session. She won her election, six weeks ago, and still has not been sworn in.
TAYLOR GREENE: She should be sworn in.
COLLINS: Point-blank?
TAYLOR GREENE: Yes.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, thank you for your time tonight.
TAYLOR GREENE: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Really appreciate you joining us.
Up next. You just heard from the Congresswoman, about her frustration with her own party when it comes to this. She's not alone. There are other Republicans who are signaling they're prepared to break with the White House, on ending this government shutdown. What could be happening here on Capitol Hill?
Also, those airlines that are canceling all the flights, starting tomorrow, if the White House ordered cuts over the shutdown. I'm going to speak to Trump's former Transportation Secretary, Elaine Chao right after this.
Plus, the man who was charged with throwing a Subway sandwich at the Feds? Just walked free today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN DUNN, D.C. SANDWICH-THROWER: I am so happy that justice prevails in spite of everything happening. And that night, I believe that I was protecting the rights of immigrants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, airports across the country are bracing for more chaos, potentially, after the Trump administration said it's going to cut air traffic by 10 percent, at 40 different airports, because of the government shutdown.
CNN has obtained the FAA order that's going to require these cuts at big hubs, Boston, New York City, Newark, New Jersey, Atlanta, Chicago, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, and Honolulu.
The four largest U.S. airlines, American, United, Delta and Southwest, have already announced hundreds of cancelations that start tomorrow. And air traffic controllers who got that $0 pay stub today, that's the second time they have seen this since the shutdown. You got to feel for them tonight.
My source tonight is the former Transportation secretary under President Donald Trump, Elaine Chao.
And thank you so much for being here, Secretary.
ELAINE CHAO, FORMER TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY UNDER PRES. TRUMP, FIRST ASIAN AMERICAN WOMAN EVER APPOINTED TO THE PRESIDENT'S CABINET, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY UNDER PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: Yes.
COLLINS: Because obviously, you were the Transportation Secretary during the last government shutdown. That went 35 days. And now we've stretched even longer.
CHAO: Yes.
COLLINS: You didn't move--
CHAO: And it seemed like forever, I think.
COLLINS: --to reduce air traffic then.
CHAO: No, unfortunate -- no -- I was Secretary of Transportation, 2019. When, now it is the second longest government shutdown. But at the time, it went on seemingly forever. And fortunately, we didn't have to, at that time, take the kind of actions that were taken today in terms of the FAA.
COLLINS: Well, I wonder, based on what you know, do you think this move is warranted tonight?
CHAO: I think out of an abundance of caution. You can ask whether it's 4 percent, 6 percent, 10 percent, whatever. But clearly, there is concern about understaffing.
There was already shortage of air traffic controllers. We had a shortage of about 1,800 air traffic controllers. There's not enough in the pipeline to fill the need. And now, with more air traffic controllers, not being paid, having to take on second jobs, and having demands at home, it's been difficult. And so, the understaffing is a real thing.
And I think this administration is trying to address, out of an abundance of caution, the safety issues.
COLLINS: Yes, we've seen some air traffic controllers start doing DoorDash or delivering food because they need to make more money.
CHAO: So sad.
COLLINS: And that government shutdown in 2019, it ended after 10 air traffic controllers stayed home, for the reasons you just cited. By our count today, more than 400 staffing shortages have been reported at the FAA. And I wonder how bad you think this could get with Thanksgiving, in just a couple weeks from now?
CHAO: Well, we don't want to see it get worse. And so hopefully, the two sides will come to some kind of understanding and also agreement. I think both sides are fatigued. The American people is fatigued.
We are ready for an opening of the government. And both sides, I think, are just trying to find some way to come to some understanding, but there are some pretty entrenched interests and pretty difficult perspectives on both sides. But let's hope for the best. There's some very sensitive negotiations going on tonight, as we speak, and we wish them well.
COLLINS: Yes, those negotiations have been -- have been ongoing.
You obviously worked for President Trump, for several years. When he -- his view of it seems to just be that, that Republicans should get rid of the filibuster, and just have Republicans vote to open the government.
I wonder what you make of the White House's argument so far here.
CHAO: I do not think that is a very wise move. That may seem tempting in the short-term. But in the long-term, what comes around, goes around -- what goes around comes around. And when Republicans are no longer in the majority, they will regret having given away the filibuster.
COLLINS: You think so?
CHAO: It's going to come around. The government will change. Majorities will change. And the filibuster is a protection for the minority, which, right now are the Democrats, but in the future, could be Republicans. It's also a very basic part of what makes the Senate different and unique from the House. And so, it's a very important part of the institution of the Senate. And I think for the protection of the institution, the filibuster needs to be maintained--
COLLINS: Yes, and we--
CHAO: --for the long-term good of the institution.
[21:30:00]
COLLINS: We've seen how, you know -- what you mentioned there exactly, who's up and who's down can change so quickly. There were those huge elections, on Tuesday, where really big Democratic victories.
And you're someone who, you know Washington very well, and you've worked in multiple administrations, and are obviously very well-versed in this. I wonder what you took away from what happened, on Tuesday night, and whether it means we could be in for a change in the balance of power up here next year.
CHAO: Well, I think it's certainly a warning signal to the Republicans. But having said that, let's take a look at the specific states. I think, in New Jersey, if you're a Republican, New Jersey never fails to disappoint. So, there were hopes that were, I think, heartier and more optimistic than warranted, as it turns out.
And then in some other places, candidate quality matters, and the quality of the campaigns matter. And I think the victor was one who had a better campaign and presented herself better.
COLLINS: Yes, and affordability was such a big conversation--
CHAO: Absolutely.
COLLINS: --in all those races.
Marjorie Taylor Greene from Georgia, I don't know if you heard what she said, just a few moments ago. But I mean, she disagreed with the President, when it's not really a matter of opinion, it's the data on, inflation is not gone, as the President has stated, and grocery prices have not come down, which he obviously pledged to do when he came into office.
I wonder what you make of someone, like a Marjorie Taylor Greene, speaking so bluntly, as she has been, in ways that break with this White House.
CHAO: Well, I think it is certainly surprising. And I think the Speaker spoke about what he thought was happening. It's, from his point of view, there was a resolution, there was a package. And in fact, the Senate, tomorrow, is going to pick up the House version and go for a long-term CR, and we'll see what happens over there.
This only shows that Republican Party is actually the party of great diversity of opinions. People -- some people are pro, and some people are against, and there's constant realignment, and that shows the dynamism of what's going on in the parties.
COLLINS: Yes, I think Speaker Johnson would definitely agree there's a lot of opinions in his party that he's dealing with.
Secretary Elaine Chao, we always love having your expertise on. So, thank you for joining us tonight.
CHAO: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next. The President today was asked his thoughts on the former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announcing she is retiring from Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I thought she was an evil woman who did a poor job, who cost the country, a lot, in damages and in reputation. I thought she was terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Welcome back to Capitol Hill, where a few moments ago, you heard from Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, making clear the message that she thinks voters sent, with this election, this week -- elections, this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR GREENE: I think Tuesday was definitely a referendum on how leaders in this country are leading. And I believe in America First policies. That's why I campaigned for President Trump, and have supported him as long as I have, and I do support him. But I want all of my colleagues to come through in action, in supporting America First policies. And I think the American people showed that on Tuesday.
You're not going to convince them to go to the polls and vote by bailing out Argentina. And you're not going to convince them to go to the polls and vote by continuing to fund foreign wars and foreign countries and foreign causes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight are my political sources.
The former communications director for the Democratic National Committee, Karen Finney.
And former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.
And Karen Finney, what were your thoughts on what you heard from someone who is a very loyal advocate of President Trump's, over here in the House?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Between that interview, and her interview on "The View," and this rumor that maybe she's running for president, it seems like she's a little jealous of AOC, and trying to get a little bit of the spotlight on herself and get that conversation going. I mean, it's been odd to see her try to stake out this different position.
I don't disagree with what she was saying, practically. I think she's right. I think at a time when people are really suffering, to see the President partying it up at his fancy resort in Florida, or bailing out Argentina, just doesn't make any sense. And he seems very tone- deaf. So, I agree with her on that point.
But it's interesting to see stylistically what she's doing these days.
COLLINS: Yes.
David, she says she's not running for president. She says she's just speaking her mind. But, I mean, for her to say she's disenfranchised with the government, when it's Republicans who are in charge, and President Trump's in the White House. It is something that stands out. DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: And listen, it is -- it's definitely a different version of Marjorie Taylor Greene than we've seen in the past. And look, I applaud her for her honesty.
[21:40:00]
And I do believe that affordability and lots of things she's talked about are real, right? People are suffering in America. Lots of different people in different socioeconomic strata are finding it hard to pay their rent, and pay their gas bills, and they're making difficult choices. So, I do agree with her, that a lot of folks in Washington are out of touch.
And look, John Fetterman -- Senator Fetterman from my home state of Pennsylvania, Marjorie Taylor Greene, lots of people are talking, kind of speaking truth to power. If the Democrats wanted to end this shutdown, as John Fetterman said, implored his colleagues to do? Come back. Vote on this Senate Bill. Let's get it done. Let's move forward.
I think the government being closed is a complete failure, right, of the government. Their job is to be open and to help the American people, and they're failed at it. And so, it's a kind of a pox on all houses.
And look, I applaud John Fetterman for speaking the truth. I applaud Marjorie Taylor Greene for having the courage of coming forth and speaking the truth. And the government needs to get open.
COLLINS: Yes.
URBAN: Chuck Schumer needs to release a few of his senators, vote yes, and move forward.
COLLINS: I mean, it's a real question of what happens. I know there's been some bipartisan talk of trying to move forward on here.
But, overall, what this looks like, and who's doing the negotiating. There was something, Karen, that Congresswoman Greene said that stuck out to me.
I just want everyone to listen to this moment, in case they missed it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you agree with the President that Republicans are bearing more of the blame than Democrats, it seems?
TAYLOR GREENE: I do. Because Americans know that Republicans control the House and the Senate, and they're looking and going, Well, why are you shut down?
And also, I'll go back to this. Senate Republicans can use the nuclear option, and override the filibuster, and open up this country today.
And so, I put blame on both Republicans and Democrats for basically, Kaitlan -- can't say it on CNN, but it's basically a, You know what, measuring contest between the men in leadership. And I think the country is sick and tired of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Karen? Is that what you--
FINNEY: Wow.
COLLINS: --is that what you think is playing out in Washington?
FINNEY: Well, I certainly think there are times when that kind of contest is absolutely front and center.
But look, in this instance, there's a couple of things. I mean, number one, the polls certainly are showing that Americans are looking at Republicans, and saying, Wait a second, you control Congress. You control the White House. Why aren't you trying to negotiate with the Democrats to lower our health care costs?
And I just want to point out, Kaitlan, I mean the specter of -- so a judge, now twice, has ordered the Trump administration to pay full SNAP benefits, which, by the way, there would be plenty of money if we hadn't had the rescissions package, earlier this year.
The President of the United States of America is in court, trying to fight the ruling that says you have to give people their SNAP benefits, so they can eat. I mean, I don't think that's going to sit well with the American people, and it doesn't sit well with them, again, when they see him, traveling to foreign countries, not actually here. I mean, the optics really matter. They want to at least see that you're trying.
You can say what you want about -- you know, I know David will say, Oh, Schumer should just release a couple of those Republicans. But people want to see the President actually doing the work.
COLLINS: David?
URBAN: Yes, you know what?
COLLINS: What do you say?
URBAN: Yes, Kaitlan. Karen and I are on so much together, she reads my mind. She knows exactly what I was going to say, because Chuck Schumer is to blame. 14 votes. Schumer could have just released some people to vote. They would have passed it.
Listen, there was a Politico article, Politico interview with the governor -- excuse me, the Mayor-elect Mamdani, who has said, when asked if Chuck Schumer needed to go, he didn't answer the question. He kind of got up said, Oh, got to go, enough interview.
Chuck Schumer is terrified of AOC. He's terrified of the Democratic- socialist-left in the city. He wants to hold on to his job. He knows the last time he voted for the CR, and kept the government open and did his job, that there was a huge backlash, and he didn't want to face it. So, this is solely and squarely one man's problem. Chuck Schumer, not Donald Trump's.
COLLINS: David Urban. And Karen Finney. Two mind readers that we have on with us. Great to have you both. Thanks for being here.
Up next. After voters did deliver those huge wins for Democrats, across the country, there's one political-hopeful who wants to continue to shake up the status quo. My source tonight is a software engineer turned AOC political adviser who wants to take former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's seat.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, widely regarded as one of the most powerful House speakers in modern history, and also the first woman to ever hold that role, has announced that she will not be seeking reelection.
It's a decision that will surely leave a void, not just inside the Democratic Party, where Pelosi became the face of historic clashes with President Trump, including this famous moment, where she ripped up his State of the Union speech, back in 2020. But also, here in the halls of Congress, behind me, where Pelosi has represented the people of San Francisco, ever since her first election win, nearly four decades ago, in 1987.
My source tonight is Saikat Chakrabarti, who is the first to launch a bid for Pelosi's House seat, earlier this year, and is also the former chief of staff and campaign manager for Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
And it's great to have you back here on the show.
Because you had been critical of Speaker Pelosi on this show. Obviously, you launched your challenge to her seat, before her announcement tonight. But I wonder, now that she has announced that she is no longer running, how you're viewing her legacy tonight?
[21:50:00]
SAIKAT CHAKRABARTI, RUNNING TO REPLACE REP. NANCY PELOSI IN CONGRESS, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes, from the start of this campaign, I have always said I've got a lot of respect for the career she's had. And my critique was really about, what do we think we need today?
But I watched her retirement video today and, honestly, it was very moving. It was a love letter to San Francisco. And she really made this point about how San Francisco has always represented the future of this country. And not just because we're the home of the tech industry, but because we've always fought to push the country when the country isn't moving. And she really was that, when she first came into Congress. At that time, San Francisco was being ravaged by the HIV AIDS epidemic, and she was kind of this fearless voice that really fought for HIV AIDS help at that time. And she got actual legislation passed, she got money into the district. And I think it's really amazing.
I think she's had an amazing career. And I think it's really a huge act of leadership, for her to step down and keep that legacy intact. So, you don't see that all too often in Washington.
COLLINS: Yes, do you think that's a move that other leaders should follow?
CHAKRABARTI: I do, you know? And I don't think it's about age. I don't think it's about just how long you've been there. I do think that we're at a point, where we do need a new Democratic Party, and I've been calling for that, the entire time that I've been running.
I think we need leaders right now who have the strength and energy to actually fight this authoritarian crew that Trump is leading. But more than that, we've got to recognize that the American Dream has just been shattered, and that's been going on for decades. That's the reason why we have Trump in there, in the first place, and it's the reason why we got Barack Obama in 2008.
People need leaders who are going to swear off corporate money, swear off lobbyists' money, and actually fight to build an economy that really works for everyone, and I really think that's possible. I think this might -- this is going to be the moment.
Because we're going to get four years of MAGA, we're going to get four years of Trump, where Trump will have completely failed to actually deliver anything for the American people. So, it's our chance to present a real vision for, how do you do the big structural changes that people are really demanding?
COLLINS: Well, and when you were here the last time, back in February, you said you thought the Democratic Party needed a whole revolution. Do you think Tuesday made you one step closer to that? Or how did you view those elections?
CHAKRABARTI: Oh, yes, I think it did, and it was really incredible. Because what I think is a fundamental fight, within the Democratic Party, right now, is what we stand for, and I think that's actually intimately connected to how we campaign. Because in the party, right now, there's an establishment that believes the only way to win races is from how much money you raise from your corporate donors.
And what I saw in Zohran Mamdani's race was it didn't matter how much money got thrown at him, because he was outspent like a million to one, or whatever it was, right? But he still was able to win, because he actually stood for working people, he stood on a popular platform, and he was able to mobilize a movement. And what that means is that when he's in power, that's going to be his source of power. He recognizes that he got there because of the people, not because of the money. I hope that we can do that across the country, because I think that's the only way we recreate a Democratic Party that's actually going to take the hard steps, necessary, to build an economy that works for working people.
COLLINS: Yes, and you mentioned -- obviously we focus so much on Zohran Mamdani. He's generated so much attention because of what a political rise it was.
When you look at the races from Abigail Spanberger though, and Mikie Sherrill, in Virginia and New Jersey respectively, does that show that there are other parts of the Democratic Party that are appealing to a more centrist, more moderate base in their races that were successful for them?
CHAKRABARTI: Yes. And honestly, I don't even love using the words like centrism versus progressivism, or moderate versus left, because I don't think that's the real fight right now. I think the fight is about, do you actually want to do something to build a new economy, or do you want to play it safe and not do much?
And what I saw in Abigail Spanberger's race, and Mikie Sherrill's race, is they also stood for affordability. And, I mean, Mikie Sherrill was calling for freezing utility rates in New Jersey, right? She is leaning into the fact that we actually have to be talking about doing something to make life livable for working people and for really, frankly, everybody. And I think that's a very exciting development.
I'd love to see a Democratic Party where everybody is realizing that we have to talk, you have to focus with a laser focus on affordability, on the cost of living crisis. And then it's not going to be enough to just pass a few small reforms to get us there, because these problems have gotten to a point, where we need to do things, like pass single-payer health care, because we're the only developed nation in the world that doesn't guarantee health care to everybody. And we're the richest one. We can do it.
We need to be talking about passing taxes on the wealthiest people in our society, because that's possible too. We need to be talking about getting rid of money in politics. These are all very popular policies, and it's very exciting to me to see every part of the Democratic Party starting to adopt that.
COLLINS: Saikat Chakrabarti, thank you. Great to have you back on the show.
CHAKRABARTI: Yes, thanks for having me.
COLLINS: Up next. I want you to hear what the guy who threw that sandwich at a federal officer, he has become symbolic with the pushback against the Trump administration, what he said today after a jury deliberated in his case.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUNN: I am so happy that justice prevails in spite of everything happening. And that night, I believe that I was protecting the rights of immigrants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That is Sean Dunn, who might be better known by his new nickname. He is the D.C. sandwich guy. He was speaking out after a jury found him not guilty of assault for throwing that foot-long Subway sandwich at a federal officer, earlier this year. The jury had deliberated for about seven hours on this single charge.
And Dunn, who I should note is a 37-year-old Air Force veteran had been arrested in August, after he threw that wrapped sandwich at a Customs and Border Protection agent, protesting the President's crime and immigration crackdown. The White House had hyped his arrest in a dramatically-produced video at the time.
But Dunn became a symbol of resistance, and the source of memes as well, about the President's federal takeover, here in Washington.
[22:00:00]
We saw as the U.S. Attorney for D.C., Jeanine Pirro, who brought this case against him, she told us tonight in a statement, quote, "As always, we accept a jury's verdict; that is the system within which we function. However, law enforcement should never be subjected to assault, no matter how 'minor.'"
Of course, as the jury found in this two-day trial, this was no assault with a deli weapon.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts now.
