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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene To Resign On Jan. 5; Trump & Mamdani Focus On Love Of NYC & Affordability Goals; House Oversight Chair Threatens Contempt Proceedings If Clintons Do Not Appear For Depositions In Epstein Probe. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 21, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): It didn't even exist, right? Until then. So that's our heritage. And they did what they did for themselves and their posterity, and that's what we have to do for our posterity, honoring their vision.
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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: We don't often use the word, shocking, here, on this show. But that is really the only fitting way to describe this headline, as we come on the air tonight.
Marjorie Taylor Greene says that she is resigning from Congress. The MAGA firebrand and Georgia congresswoman explains that her very public falling out that has happened, over these last few weeks, with President Trump, was the driving factor in this decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I have too much self-respect and dignity. I love my family way too much. And I do not want my sweet district to have to endure a hurtful and hateful primary against me by the President that we all fought for, only to fight and win my election, while Republicans will likely lose the midterms, and in turn be expected to defend the President against impeachment, after he hatefully dumped tens of millions of dollars against me and tried to destroy me.
It's all so absurd and completely unserious. I refuse to be a battered wife, hoping it all goes away and gets better.
There is no plan to save the world or a 4D chess game being played.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That is just part of what is a 10-minute long statement that just dropped so unexpectedly, it actually took us a minute to make sure that we were hearing Marjorie Taylor Greene right.
This is a rift that has been building and building, between Marjorie Taylor Greene and President Trump, to the point that this week started with the President calling his one-time staunch ally, a traitor, over her dogged pursuit of the Epstein files. She's broken with him on several fronts lately. That includes the Obamacare subsidies, health care, the cost of living.
That all leads us to where this week ended, with the President talking about affordability and heaping praise on someone who is the opposite of Marjorie Taylor Greene, and typically one of his favorite targets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Just had a great meeting. A really good, very productive meeting.
It was a great meeting.
I enjoyed the meeting. We had a great meeting.
I think you're going to have, hopefully a really great mayor. I think this mayor can do some things that are going to be really great.
He has a chance to really do something great for New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Yes, for those of you keeping score at home, for President Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene is out, and Zohran Mamdani appears to be in.
The President followed up those comments there, the gracious comments inside the Oval with not one, but two posts on social media, with these pictures of the day, calling it a great honor meeting with Zohran Mamdani, the new Mayor of New York City.
Of course, Mamdani is someone who ran on a promise to Trump-proof New York City. He stood in the Oval Office, and talked about all the ways that he believes he can work with the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK CITY: I appreciated the meeting with the President. And as he said, it was a productive meeting focused on a place of shared admiration and love, which is New York City.
I appreciated the time with the President. I appreciated the conversation.
I look forward to working together to deliver that affordability for New Yorkers.
What I really appreciate about the President is that the meeting that we had focused not on places of disagreement, which there are many, and also focused on the shared purpose that we have in serving New Yorkers.
I am really looking forward to delivering for New Yorkers, in partnership with the President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It's still stunning to even watch that, hours later, after it happened, and we were at the White House reporting on it. I mean, you see the atmosphere in the room. It is the exact opposite of what we've been hearing from these two, for months, the fiery rhetoric from both of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This guy is a communist at the highest level, and he wants to destroy New York.
MAMDANI: I am Donald Trump's worst nightmare.
TRUMP: The Mamdani thing is a -- it's a disaster waiting to happen.
MAMDANI: I will not be intimidated by this President.
TRUMP: These people are crazy. And Mamdani, whatever the hell his name is, in New York.
MAMDANI: So hear me, President Trump, when I say this. To get to any of us, you will have to get through all of us.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, for a president who pays close attention to political talent, and judges success in terms of television ratings and press attention, he certainly seemed impressed today.
[21:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, I've had a lot of meetings with the heads of major countries. Nobody cared. This meeting that you people have gone -- you know, outside you have hundreds of people waiting. This is just a small little group. For some reason, the press has found this to be a very interesting meeting. The biggest people in the world, they come over from countries. Nobody cares. But they did care about this meeting. And it was a great meeting.
Go ahead. REPORTER: Yes, Mr. President, I was going to ask you exactly that. Why do you think there's so much more -- you know, so much excitement around this than even some foreign leaders?
TRUMP: Because I think he's different. All right? I think he's different. And that can be in a very positive way. But I think he's different than, you know, your typical guy runs, who wins, becomes mayor maybe, and nothing exciting. Because he has a chance to really do something great for New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, both of them, as they faced questions from reporters, kept going back to a place where they agree. That prices are too high for Americans in this country. They sidestep to the issues where they vehemently disagree.
Even on crime, the one issue that the President has been trying so hard to elevate, it was a pretty dramatic reversal when you listen to this, to the days of the President saying that his former hometown is a hell hole.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Would you feel comfortable living in New York City under a Mamdani administration?
TRUMP: Yes, I would, I really would, especially after the meeting. Absolutely.
REPORTER: What makes you comfortable?
TRUMP: We agree on a lot more than I would have thought. I think he's -- I want him to do a great job, and we'll help him do a great job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It's still hard to believe -- that is genuinely what he said, multiple times, inside the Oval Office, just ripping through every Republican talking point that we've heard, for the last few months.
There were a few moments though today, that even better than what you just heard, best-encapsulated the vibe of that entire back and forth between President Trump and Mayor-elect Mamdani.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Republican Elise Stefanik has campaigned multiple times by calling Zohran Mamdani a jihadist. Do you think you're standing next to a jihadist right now in the Oval Office?
TRUMP: No, I know, but, she's out there campaigning and, you know, you say things sometimes in a campaign.
I've been called much worse than a despot. So it's not -- it's not that insulting. I think it'll change his mind after we get to working together.
REPORTER: Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?
MAMDANI: I've spoken about--
TRUMP: That's OK. You can just say yes, so.
MAMDANI: OK. All right.
TRUMP: It's easier.
MAMDANI: Yes.
TRUMP: It's easier than explaining it. I don't mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, there are a few words to describe what we watched today.
Luckily, on all this breaking news on a Friday night, from Marjorie Taylor Greene resigning from Congress, to that lovefest that we all just witnessed inside the Oval Office, my top political sources are here on tonight's breaking news.
And Harry Enten, you're laughing very loudly.
John King. You've covered the White House.
I mean, dang. Between -- between that--
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: Because it is a big picture. It's not just what we saw in the Oval Office. I mean that, with what we just learned in the last few moments that Marjorie Taylor Greene is out. I mean, if I told you a year ago that Trump and Zohran Mamdani would be like this, and Marjorie Taylor Greene would be leaving Congress because of President Trump, you--
KING: Would have shared my gin and tonic.
COLLINS: --would have told me I was drinking.
KING: Look, it's great to be with you all because of our shared love and affection, to quote the Mayor-elect of the world-turned-upside- down.
It's amazing. It's remarkable breaking news. Look, we have lived in an age of political disruption, really, since the election of Obama, but especially since Trump and the MAGA movement came along.
So, on the one hand, we shouldn't be surprised by disruption and disaffection and things changing, and there's no real political parties have no real center anymore. I don't mean center in the middle of the electorate. I mean they don't have any core, because Trump has redefined the Republican Party. The Democratic Party is in a search in who-are-we mission right now.
But this is still mind-blowing in the sense, let's start with Marjorie Taylor Greene. My biggest question is, what next? She just broke with the President on the Epstein files and won. She says he is tone-deaf on these affordability issues. And guess what? She's right. Maybe the President had a shift today with the Mayor-elect of New York. But up until this point, that's why his approval ratings are in the tank.
So she has said she -- she has said, up to today that she was not going to run statewide in Georgia. People roll their eyes and they laugh and they say, Well, when I say, Well, maybe she's going to run for president.
But again, again, Donald Trump could never win the Republican nomination in 2016, and then he could never beat Hillary Clinton, of course, and he could never be president again after January 6th. Barack Obama is not going to be President of the United States. That's never going to happen. That's what they said then.
COLLINS: Zohran Mamdani is not going to be the mayor--
KING: Mamdani can't beat Cuomo and be the Mayor of New York City.
So we live in the age of improbable stories in our politics, because the ground beneath everybody is shifting so much. I don't know what she's going to do next. I do know one thing. Number one, she's not going to stay quiet. You know her. That's who she is. So what she decides -- and number two, this is a granular Washington issue. Speaker Johnson has less than one-hand majority. When she goes away--
COLLINS: This may seem like--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: --right?
KING: When she goes away in January, that's another minus one. I think it leaves him with plus two or plus three? They don't get too much done heading into the midterm year anyway. But that's hard.
COLLINS: I mean, Harry Enten, when you--
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Oh my god, yes, I get one.
COLLINS: To John's point--
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: I want everyone to know, Harry Enten left a dinner to come here, to join on this breaking news.
ENTEN: I did. I did.
COLLINS: But to John's point about her not staying quiet. I mean, she released a 10-minute video explaining this.
ENTEN: We'll see her again--
COLLINS: And in part of it, she says--
KING: Yes.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: --Loyalty should be a two-way street and we should be able to vote our conscience and represent our district's interest, because our job title is literally, Representative. And America First should mean America First and only Americans First.
And then she wrote this, and this is -- I mean, she is directly calling out President Trump. She says, Standing up for American women who were raped at 14 -- obviously that would be girls -- trafficked and used by rich powerful men, should not result in me being called a traitor and threatened by the President of the United States, whom I fought for.
ENTEN: We are starting, in my opinion, to see the real-world consequences of what we're seeing in the polling. That is cracks, actual cracks in Trump's Republican support. His net approval rating amongst Republicans is down over 20 points since January.
We are seeing a president who had, for months, tried to ensure that the Epstein files were not going to be released, despite the fact that his approval rating on the Epstein files was south of 50 percent, despite the fact that the vast majority of Republicans wanted those Epstein files released.
And more than that, what you saw was Marjorie Taylor Greene playing a little bit of political punditry, right? Saying that the Republican Party is likely to lose the House of Representatives, come 2026. That, of course, is what we see in all the polling data as well.
This, in my opinion, has been the 10 worst days of polling that Donald Trump has had, throughout his entire second term. And Marjorie Taylor Greene resigning and stating what she did, in my mind, sort of puts the capstone on it, and also puts the capstone on a day in which the President of the United States met with Zohran Mamdani, and that lovefest. To quote the movie "Tootsie," This is one nutty hospital.
COLLINS: Jamal, I want to know what Democrats are thinking about this nutty hospital, as Harry so lovingly puts it.
But we have David Urban here.
David, I mean, I've been talking to a few Republicans tonight, in the last 30 minutes, since this got announced. They are genuinely stunned by this news from Marjorie Taylor Greene.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Kaitlan, I listened and watched the full 10 minutes before -- right before I sat down. Because, like you, it's hard to, kind of, it's hard to get -- wrap your head around it.
John gets it right, and everyone knows this. This is an administration that use -- superlatives. Unprecedented this -- unprecedented -- this is truly an unprecedented day where his biggest supporter, by far -- I mean, I can't imagine anyone who's taken more heat for Donald Trump since she's been in office than Marjorie Taylor Greene. To her own detriment, has been, categorized as crazy, nutjob, et cetera. Today, yet, she is castigated, thrown aside as a traitor.
And as you correctly pointed out, he's embracing Zohran Mamdani, a Democratic socialist mayor of the City of New York, like they're fraternity brothers. I mean, it's crazy.
And she -- some of her verbiage is incredibly biting. She's not going to sit around like a battered wife and defend the President when impeachment comes in a few months. I mean, it is some pretty, pretty vitriolic language on her part. And if you're the President, if you're Speaker Johnson, you can't be feeling too good tonight, as you go to bed.
COLLINS: Yes, David, I mean, her describe -- likening herself to a battered wife was very jarring, obviously, as you listen to that. But that's how she was essentially saying, like -- because I think a thing to drive home, and maybe she is running for office in 2028, or for who knows what. But I mean, this is a genuinely shocking moment, I think, for her, in terms of the falling out and how hard that has hit her, since this has happened.
And we talked to people close to her who were describing the death threats that were escalating, and what this looked like, David. I mean, I just -- I think no one could imagine this.
URBAN: Yes, I mean, listen, it makes the Elon -- it makes the Elon fight look like a pillow fight, right? President and Elon. This is -- this is a joke compared to that, right?
I mean, the President has said some pretty -- pretty sharp things at different people at different times, and most people brush it off. Obviously, Marjorie Taylor Greene had no intention of brushing it off. And she said, Look, you know -- she threw open the window and said, Enough, I'm not going to put up with this anymore.
COLLINS: I mean, Jamal Simmons, how are Democrat -- what are Democrats saying right now?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CO-HOST, "TRAILBLAZE" PODCAST, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRES. BIDEN: Well, first of all, to quote Don King, Only in America, right? We all never thought anything like this day -- today was going to happen.
I was on CNN, on Sunday, with Dana Bash, when she was interviewing--
COLLINS: After she interviewed her, yes.
SIMMONS: That's when she was interviewing Marjorie Taylor Greene. And I would tell you, everybody in the green room had their mouths open, when she apologized for participating in the toxicity. Nobody expected her to do that. And now we see where this has led today. She's had a week of attacks.
Jason Crow, I was just looking at online, Jason Crow has been publishing death threats that he's been getting, because all those members and senators who came out and put that video out, telling the military not to break the law, have been now getting threats.
So it's interesting that we're seeing the President and his party participating in the kind of violent, vitriolic stuff that we were all trying to -- trying to disavow, just a few months ago. And so, now we're seeing that coming from the President and his allies, and I think that's really tough.
[21:15:00]
But then today, the President shows up with Zohran Mamdani, and he's like soft and cuddly. It's an amazing about-face.
COLLINS: Yes.
I have also Democratic congressman, Ro Khanna of California, here with me.
And Congressman, obviously, Marjorie Taylor Greene was one of the Republican women who helped you and Thomas Massie get the Epstein bills into law, this week. President Trump had to sign it because they held on and did that discharge petition. And obviously, that is one of the huge areas where she broke with the White House, in recent weeks and months.
What's your reaction to this breaking news tonight, that she's resigning from Congress in January?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, first of all, she's shown a lot of courage on Epstein. But I also think it's important that we look beyond the caricatures about her. I've gotten to know her quite well, over the last five months.
This idea that the only reason she's acting the way she is, is because Donald Trump refused to endorse her in a Senate race, is just not the complete truth. I mean, maybe it's a small factor. But she genuinely believes against war. She was an anti-war person. She genuinely thinks AI is a real threat to jobs. She genuinely was moved by the survivors. I mean, she's been in tears with the survivors.
And she probably has more populist instincts than JD Vance, who's the frontrunner in the Republican side. It would not surprise me, if she runs in 2028. And I actually think she's more in touch with some of the populism that fueled Donald Trump's rise than Trump and Vance are these days.
COLLINS: So, it wouldn't surprise you if Marjorie Taylor Greene runs for president?
KHANNA: It would not. I mean, I don't know, I haven't talked to her about that. But I will tell you this. She is in touch with a populist element of the Trump base that feels increasingly abandoned by Donald Trump and these--
COLLINS: Yes.
KHANNA: And she really speaks about forgotten Americans. Look, she will tell you, she was for Donald Trump when no one thought Donald Trump had a chance.
COLLINS: But can I get -- can I--
KHANNA: When CNN probably wasn't even covering Donald Trump.
COLLINS: I actually think that's a great point. She is someone who has been Ride or Die for Trump.
But what is your view of his embrace of Zohran Mamdani in the way he did today? And I mean, every reporter in that room hit every sensitive touchpoint between the two of them, and he was defending Zohran Mamdani and sidestepping the issues, and even said, Yes, you can call me a fascist. It's easier than having to explain it to people.
But to see that moment, parallel with her resigning, someone who was so loyal to him, I wonder what that says to you.
KHANNA: Well, two things. One, Donald Trump's a good politician. I mean, it would be foolish not to say that. He has a sense of humor, and he likes people who win. And Zohran Mamdani is a winner.
Donald Trump also has a populist instinct. As someone who co-chaired Bernie Sanders' campaign, you saw it. Trump said, There are a lot of things that Bernie voters that he agreed with. And what Zohran Mamdani has is a boldness, and I think, frankly, Trump respects that.
I went out and campaigned for Zohran Mamdani, when few people were. And Zohran Mamdani didn't move his issues. He was not afraid of standing for what he believed in, and he was not afraid to request a meeting with Donald Trump.
And I just think we live in a populist age. People throw around the word, authenticity. I actually think that's a bit cliched. What it is really about is boldness, and risk-taking, and courage. And Mamdani had that. And even though I disagree with him, Trump had that, when he ran, and I just think Trump recognized that in Mamdani.
COLLINS: Congressman Ro Khanna, thank you.
SIMMONS: Kaitlan, I will say one thing before we go. Really quickly before we go.
COLLINS: Go ahead, Jamal.
SIMMONS: Listen, this is a trend. We've seen Mitt Romney. He's gone. Adam Kinzinger. He's gone. Liz Cheney. She opposed Donald Trump. She's gone. Marjorie Taylor Greene opposed Donald Trump. She's gone. Will she have a place in the Republican Party? Is there a space for someone to oppose Donald Trump and still be successful in the Republican Party?
COLLINS: That's the question. They're all gone and their careers were done.
URBAN: Kaitlan--
COLLINS: Does she come back? John King?
KING: She said I'll -- she said I'll see you.
URBAN: Yes, Kaitlan--
KING: She said, I will see you. She may see Congressman Khanna in Iowa and New Hampshire in the 2028 warm-up, as we go through in places like that. Or she may change her mind and decide to do something in statewide in Georgia. Or she might try to do something outside of elective politics. She is not going away. Period.
COLLINS: She has huge a platform.
URBAN: Kaitlan--
KING: Yes.
COLLINS: David, final thought?
URBAN: Yes, real quickly, I was going to say, John King brought up a good point before, about the narrow margin that the Speaker has. I don't know this portends for anything going forward, right?
We saw Marjorie Taylor Greene break with the President, pretty dramatically, on this Epstein piece. The President lost historically. He whipped that pretty hard and lost in a historic fashion, signed that into law.
I wonder what it's going to mean, moving forward, if other Republicans will dare speak against the White House, or make their wishes known as they move forward. Not a lot gets done, as John says, moving forward.
COLLINS: Yes.
URBAN: But it's going to be -- it's going to be much, much more tough landscape with fewer Republicans, and someone who just took a big swan dive like she did, is your -- as the backdrop.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean--
URBAN: So, interesting -- interesting next year.
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: --I got a lot of expletives texted to me in the moments after this. Just shock. David Urban. Jamal Simmons. John King. Harry Enten. Congressman Ro Khanna. All of you. Great to have you on the breaking news.
We have a lot more on our big breaking news, right after a quick break. You're not going to want to miss this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?
MAMDANI: I've spoken about--
TRUMP: That's OK. You can just say yes, so.
MAMDANI: OK. All right.
TRUMP: It's easier.
MAMDANI: Yes.
TRUMP: It's easier than explaining it. I don't mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It is a clip that defined a warm get-together that once seemed to be basically unfathomable, inside the Oval Office today, until the political fever dream was playing out on national television, as you saw it all today.
[21:25:00]
The leader of the MAGA movement and a self-described Democratic socialist were playing up the most unlikely of political bromances around an issue that the two men apparently share a lot in common.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAMDANI: I am really looking forward to delivering for New Yorkers, in partnership with the President, on the affordability agenda.
We focused on affordability. We focused on the cost of living crisis.
TRUMP: But a big thing on cost, you know, the new word is affordability.
MAMDANI: And the need to deliver affordability to New Yorkers.
Work together to deliver on affordability. It can be transformative.
I look forward to working together to deliver that affordability for New Yorkers.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: My source tonight is a former Mayor of New York City himself, Bill de Blasio.
Mr. Mayor, you ever think you would have gotten a reception like that, inside the Oval Office, with a Republican president who you vehemently disagreed with?
BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: No. Most people I call fascists are not that nice to me, you know?
It's like, it was surreal, absolutely surreal, and it's not going to last. Let me tell you, Kaitlan, this is -- this is a moment, and I think Trump wants some of the magic dust of Mamdani, and he wants to, in any way, distract from the Epstein files. So, the stars aligned for this lovely day. But unless Trump's going to have a larger conversion experience, politically, this is not going to last long.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's a good point, that this isn't something that probably would last. I mean, we'll have to wait and see what happens. But, I mean, you could easily see this, this changing and this dynamic.
But I think one thing that was so striking today is watching that rapport between the two of them, is it just made it stand in even more of a stark contrast how Democratic leaders have not done that with Zohran Mamdani themselves. I mean, we've never seen Hakeem Jeffries, or Chuck Schumer, or any of them, having such a moment like that in front of the cameras with Zohran Mamdani.
DE BLASIO: I want to -- I rarely praise Donald Trump, but I do want to give him credit, from 2016 till now, for having his finger on the pulse of the American electorate, and understanding how much people are hurting, economically and otherwise, like the sense of insecurity that kind of pervades our society now.
And I think he understands that Mamdani ran an effective populist campaign that really took some of the things Trump did in 2024, and went even farther in many ways. And it's really where things are going, where the Democratic Party, in fact, I think needs to go.
But a lot of the stalwarts of the old Democratic establishment just don't get it, and they were shocked twice in elections by Trump, because he honestly understood people's pain better. I don't think his solutions were honest or sincere, but he understood people's pain and he played to it.
I think Mamdani's message is the shape of things to come for the Democratic Party, and Trump is literally trying to get ahead of it, because he sees how threatening it will be to him in the midterms and beyond.
COLLINS: Yes, he sees success, and he respects that.
DE BLASIO: Yes.
COLLINS: And your name actually came up during the meeting today. I want you to listen to what was said inside the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, I love New York City. It's where I come from. I've spent a lot of years there. Now, I'm right here. We took a big setback with a mayor that we had, named de Blasio. I thought it was a tremendous setback for the city. I think this mayor could do some things that are going to be really great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What's your response to that?
DE BLASIO: I don't know -- I mean, the famous phrase, I'm living rent- free inside Donald Trump's head. I don't know why he keeps coming back to what he felt about my time in office. We did Pre-K for All. We had the highest number of jobs in New York City history. And we drove down crime year after year.
So, I don't know quite what he's talking about, except I just would not kowtow to him. I learned very early on, when Trump tried to take away funding from New York City because we are a sanctuary city, you confront him. You go to court. You confront him, politically. You don't give in. And when he sees that, he actually changes his focus and goes away. So, he actually stopped focusing on New York City after a few confrontations that we won.
I think, right now, with Mamdani, he's having his honeymoon. But he'll be saying the same kind of things he said about me, about Mamdani, in short order, because Mamdani is not going to back down. If Trump tries to undermine New York City, or does these horrible immigration raids, sweeping up hard-working everyday people for no reason? Mamdani is not going to sit back and take that. He's going to fight back, and then Trump will suddenly call him, a communist again.
COLLINS: Yes, we could certainly see that.
Bill de Blasio, thank you so much for joining us here tonight.
[21:30:00]
And also, I want to turn to someone else who is with us, that knows as well as anyone what it's like to be in a tough New York-style meeting with Donald Trump. His former lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen, is here. You can follow his Substack. He's also the host of the "Mea Culpa" podcast.
And Michael Cohen, I want to ask you about that meeting today.
But can I first just ask you, given you are someone who had a really close relationship with the President, who did a lot for him, and had a major falling out.
MICHAEL COHEN, HOST, "MEA CULPA" PODCAST AND @THEREALMICHAELCOHEN ON SUBSTACK: Yes.
COLLINS: What it is like for you to see Marjorie Taylor Greene resign from Congress tonight, and say that Donald Trump is the reason?
COHEN: Yes, I think it's a political move, calculated political move, by Marjorie Taylor Greene. We have not seen the end of her. She's incredibly popular in her area. Whether she's going to run for governor or, as others had said, and I agree with them, she'll probably try to become a presidential candidate in 2028. But guaranteed, she has -- we have not seen the last of Marjorie Taylor Greene, not by a long shot.
COLLINS: But one thing she cited in her statement, was her loyalty to Trump. And that is definitely true. I mean, like Marjorie Taylor Greene or not, she was incredibly loyal to him. She was one of the few Republicans still standing by his side and defending him after January 6th.
Were you surprised though, that he turned on her in the way that he did?
COHEN: Well, as they -- as I like to say in my Substack, even for today, Welcome to the under-the-bus club. She's joining a very large group of people, myself as the charter membership director. Welcome to the club.
COLLINS: I mean, yes, I just -- I just -- I can't get over tonight, these two major headlines, and how they coincide together. With her resigning from Congress, citing Donald Trump is the reason. And the President inside the Oval.
COHEN: Right? Can't we have a nice, easy Friday evening? Can't we just have-
COLLINS: We don't like--
COHEN: --a nice, easy Friday evening just once?
COLLINS: We don't like quiet Fridays over here.
But, I mean, seriously, that split-screen, though, between the two of them is really something. That he's welcoming Zohran Mamdani, into the Oval Office with open arms. And she is leaving Washington because of this falling out.
COHEN: Yes. Well, let me -- let's go to the Mamdani scenario. I've said it to you privately. I've said it to you on this station. I've said it to you on my own social media platforms.
I always knew that they were going to end up getting together in the Oval. And Donald Trump has the ability to be incredibly personable. I mean, how many times have you heard people turn around after meeting with Donald Trump, say, You know, I thought that he would be different. You know, I didn't think that it was going to go as well as it did. He could be very charming when he wants to.
But when the time comes, if, in fact, that things happen that, let's say, Trump does not approve of and it becomes a fight? Well, then that's when the teeth come out, and Trump will fight tooth and nail, in order to get his point of view and to get his position across.
COLLINS: How do you think all the Republicans who were -- I mean, I'm thinking of Senator Rick Scott, I think is one of them. There were other Republicans who were basically saying, A communist is coming into the White House today, and President Trump's going to school him and show him, and Elise Stefanik has been running against Kathy Hochul, basically using Zohran Mamdani as the foil.
And the President seemed to make all of those talking points basically evaporate today, by saying he would live in Zohran Mamdani's New York, that he does think he's a rational guy. He doesn't see him as a jihadist, as Elise Stefanik has described him.
I mean, how do you think Republicans felt about watching that today?
COHEN: Well, if you are a MAGA supporter, if you're a Donald Trump MAGA supporter, you're obviously very angry.
As a New Yorker, I keep trying to say to people, Let's just take a step back here. Let's give the guy a chance. He won the election. He is going to be the Mayor of New York. Let's take a step back. Yes, he made some statements, I bet he would probably like to pull them back. And if he doesn't pull them back, well, people will force him to pull them back down the road. So, let's give him a chance.
I mean, New York has survived many, many, let's just say, failed mayors, including the one that you had on right before me. I totally agree with Trump on that. Bill de Blasio was a horrible mayor for New York, accomplished little. And I don't agree with him on his own statements, on the great things he did for New York.
If we could survive Bill de Blasio, if we could survive David Dinkins, or even with Eric Adams? I think New York is going to survive just fine a Mayor Mamdani. Who knows? He could even be great. Who knows? We'll only know in about a year from now. I'll come back on and we can talk about it.
COLLINS: OK. Michael Cohen, we'll see you next year, on November 21st. Thank you for joining us tonight, Michael.
COHEN: Yes.
COLLINS: You can follow Michael Cohen on Substack. He is the host of "Mea Culpa" podcast.
Up next for us here. We're going to get more inside that remarkable Oval Office meeting, between the President and the Mayor-elect of New York. Republican attack ads that Trump -- on Zohran Mamdani, that Trump himself was pushing back on. And what the two men agreed on the most.
[21:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAMDANI: The affordability. We focused on affordability.
TRUMP: The new word is affordability.
MAMDANI: Affordability.
Affordability.
Affordability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the House Oversight Committee is searching for new targets in its investigation into Jeffrey Epstein, and also demanding that witnesses talk.
The Committee's chair is threatening both Bill and Hillary Clinton with contempt of Congress, if they don't comply with the subpoenas for their depositions. Neither of them has been charged with any wrongdoing. They have denied any knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's criminal actions, I should note.
[21:40:00]
But sources tell CNN that investigators are also still trying to get an interview with the Epstein accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, as her attorneys told them that she will refuse to answer any questions, and would instead just assert her Fifth Amendment rights.
The powerful congressional investigative panel has subpoenaed two banks already. They're demanding documents from the U.S. Virgin Islands Attorney General. And they also have asked multiple Epstein survivors what or whom they should be targeting next.
All of this is coming, after President Trump signed that bill, compelling the Justice Department to release all of its Epstein files. They've got a deadline in early December.
Joining me tonight is Democratic congresswoman, Yassamin Ansari from the House Oversight Committee.
And thank you, Congresswoman, for being here.
Because, I know the staff on your committee was meeting with Epstein survivors, and asking where this investigation should go from here. Where is it going next?
REP. YASSAMIN ANSARI (D-AZ): So, I think the most important thing now is continuing to make sure that the Trump administration actually comply with the subpoenas.
Now, we have two different mechanisms here to get to the bottom of this, and get the truth, finally. We have the Oversight Committee subpoena, which has been there since July, that the Oversight Committee issued. And now with the Transparency Act, there is that as well. And so, Donald Trump, he signed this into law. He has 30 days to release the files. But again, he was already under a subpoena to do so.
From my perspective, I do think it's incredibly important that we bring Ghislaine Maxwell in front of Congress to testify. I did see that Chairman Comer mention that he doesn't think that's a good use of taxpayer dollars, and that if she's going to plead the Fifth, it's not worthwhile. In the same vein, he is pressuring and making sure that Bill and Hillary Clinton, and Democrats, come before and testify.
And she is the one, of course, that is a convicted child sex trafficker, facing 20 years in prison, now in a low-security prison after her meeting with Donald Trump's personal -- former personal defense attorney.
And so, that is a priority. Getting those bank records is absolutely a priority. I think we're just really at the beginning of this investigation.
COLLINS: Can I get your take on this? Because when this news came down tonight, that Marjorie Taylor Greene was resigning from Congress. She'll resign on January 5th, I should note, in 2026.
Part of her lengthy statement, she said, Standing up for American women who were raped at 14, trafficked and used by rich powerful men, should not result in me being called a traitor and threatened by the President of the United States, whom I fought for.
When you heard that part of her reasoning, for why she is stepping down, in part, I wonder what that says to you, as y'all are conducting this investigation.
ANSARI: Honestly, I think that it shows that the threat landscape around this issue is significant. I, to be honest with you, do not know Congresswoman Greene in a personal capacity. For so many years, and since I've been in Congress, I knew her as this caricature, and we pretty much disagree on everything.
But I will acknowledge that her bravery on this issue, and not backing down, and standing with the survivors, despite this immense pressure from the White House that has completely upended her relationship with Donald Trump, is remarkable, in and of itself. And she really -- we would not be here, if it wasn't for her standing up and refusing to bend on this issue.
But I think the threats are very real. And of course, the President of the United States, calling you a traitor is going to result in severe, severe backlash from his followers. I don't think that's very different than just yesterday, him essentially threatening death to a number of lawmakers, including Senator Mark Kelly from my State of Arizona.
I think this time, right now, to be an elected official, to be a journalist like yourself, it's incredibly dangerous because of all of the heightened violence. And I think that I'm -- I imagine that had to do with her decision.
COLLINS: Do you worry that because she is -- I mean, you're right. If she had not signed on to that discharge petition, this wouldn't have happened. I mean, this bill wouldn't have ever made it to President Trump's desk. Obviously, Lauren Boebert and Nancy Mace as well, along with Thomas Massie.
But given what she has faced as a result of that, do you worry that other Republicans won't be willing to do so? Or do you think that this will make them more willing to do so?
ANSARI: I just think it's -- we're past that now, when it comes to the Epstein files issue. I think that the survivors are not going anywhere. The Oversight Committee, at least on the Democratic side, we are not going anywhere. We are going to get to the truth and make sure people are held accountable for this.
I think largely on just Republicans, more broadly, I think the Republican Party is an absolute mess right now. I mean, I think Speaker Mike Johnson completely embarrassed himself this week and over the last couple of months, flip-flopping on this issue, and then having Donald Trump turn around and essentially endorse Republicans signing on to this bill. He looked really, really ridiculous, in all of that.
[21:45:00]
And so, I think the Republican caucus in general, the cracks are there. They have -- they're just going to deepen from here. But I do hope that more Republicans will show the same type of bravery and standing out -- standing up to the authoritarianism, to the corruption, to the fact that the Republican Party has no plan on health care, their ties to special interests and so much more.
And when it comes to the Epstein files, again, I assure you that Oversight Democrats and the Oversight Committee is not going to back down until we get the files released, once and for all.
COLLINS: We will see what that fight looks like and how that plays out.
Congresswoman Ansari, thank you for joining us tonight.
ANSARI: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next here. Is President Trump about to give Putin nearly everything that the Russian leader has been demanding? It's not just Democrats who are criticizing this new plan when it comes to Ukraine. What some key Republicans are saying tonight. Fareed Zakaria is here to join me in moments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is expressing confidence that his latest proposal to end Russia's war in Ukraine is a pathway to peace. That is, if Ukraine's President accepts it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have a -- a way of getting peace. We think we have a way of getting peace. He's going to have to approve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President has given President Zelenskyy until Thanksgiving to sign onto his 28-point plan.
The Ukrainian leader, though today, suggested that it's a choice between Ukraine losing its dignity or losing U.S. support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE (through translator): This is one of the most difficult moments in our history. The pressure on Ukraine is now at its most intense. Ukraine may now face a very difficult choice. Either the loss of dignity, or the risk of losing a key partner, or 28 difficult points, or an extremely harsh winter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, experts who have looked at this say that the President's proposal is basically set up to give Russia almost everything that it wants.
Kyiv would have to cede territory to Russia, give up any ambitions to join NATO, and also limit the size of its military, going forward.
The United States would also recognize Crimea and other key areas that Russia has previously invaded as de facto Russian, which would be a stark reversal of longstanding U.S. policy.
Joining me tonight is CNN host and foreign affairs expert, Fareed Zakaria.
And Fareed, obviously, when people look at this plan, they say, This is something that widely favors Russia. But I think the question is, does Zelenskyy have a choice here?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: That is the big question. And we don't -- really don't know, because Ukraine is in tough shape. Ukraine has been very slowly but steadily losing ground on the battlefield. It'd be fair to say, it's losing inches, not large amounts of territory, every day. But it is losing that territory.
And most importantly, remember Kaitlan, that the reality here, and the fact propelling, or this change in dynamic, is that ever since President Trump has come into office, he has made clear, Ukraine is not going to get any more support from the United States. He has frozen any kind of military support. He has frozen the political relationship. Everybody can see, and we saw it in that Oval Office meeting, that Donald Trump doesn't particularly like Zelenskyy, doesn't like Ukraine, doesn't want to support it. And that has a huge impact on the morale, because at the end of the day, this is a -- this is a war of staying power.
The Russians always thought the West would tire of this conflict, and Putin could then grind this forward to victory, because he had the appetite for a longer conflict. And what Trump has done is he's handed Putin the keys by saying, Yes, you're right.
And, as you say, the American plan is really the Russian plan. That is pretty much everything Putin wants. In fact, there's things in there that I think that you could have gotten the peace even without making those other -- concessions. There are more concessions even than the Russians would have asked for.
COLLINS: More concessions than what the Russia -- you're saying, if Russia had negotiated this itself, it would have been maybe more scaled back?
ZAKARIA: Well, if you look at some of the things, for example, I mean, it's really quite breathtaking. No foreign troops can be in Ukraine. Ukraine has to put it into its constitution that it would never join NATO.
The agreement only lasts 10 years, which is the crucial part, because what that tells you is, that is Russia's window. Russia will basically build up forces on the border of Ukraine, wait for this agreement to expire, and then do what it will -- has always wanted, which is turn Ukraine into a client state. The security provisions for Ukraine seem very weak. It has to cut its army by a third.
So, many of these things are, I mean, all I can tell you is, when the Russians negotiated in Istanbul, a couple of years ago, they never asked for these things. These are above and beyond what the Russians had asked for, at the time.
And what is striking about it is it's not a recipe for stability. If you think about the Korean War, which many thought was how this would end, a kind of de facto freeze on the ceasefire line. Well, in that case, what the United States then did was provide military support, military guarantees and troops on the ground to South Korea, that have lasted now for 75 years.
Ukraine gets no troops. As far -- it's unclear what the guarantee is. The agreement lasts only 10 years.
COLLINS: Yes.
ZAKARIA: It has to cut its army by a third.
[21:55:00]
So you see what I mean. It's, if you're trying to deter further aggression and actually keep -- you know, create a stable, peaceful framework? This is an odd way to do it, because the Russians have all the advantages and very low cost to breaking this agreement in 10 years, and essentially taking over Ukraine.
COLLINS: And it's facing some big criticism, in Washington, from Republicans like Mitch McConnell and Roger Wicker. We'll see what difference that makes.
Fareed Zakaria, I'm so glad you joined us tonight. I know you'll have much more to talk about this, as we get closer to that Thursday deadline. You can watch "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" Sundays at 10:00 a.m. Eastern here on CNN.
Thanks so much, Fareed.
And for everyone else, we'll be right back with some behind-the-scenes moments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: From a huge break in the Epstein saga, to some head-turning and head-spinning moments in the Oval Office, it was a busy week in the nation's capital. And we have a special look, behind the scenes, at the White House. You can watch it on CNN.com, and streaming on the CNN app. I promise, you don't want to miss that.
Thank you so much for joining us though tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
