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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Touts Economy After Calling Affordability A "Hoax"; CNN Projects Democrat Eileen Higgins Will Win Miami Mayor's Race; Five U.S. Citizens Testify They Were Assaulted, Detained By DHS. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired December 09, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: You can find the full episode at CNN.com/AllThereIs, or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also see my new streaming companion show, "All There Is Live," every Thursday at 09:15 p.m. Eastern Time. That's also at CNN.com/AllThereIs.
That's it for me. The news continues. I'll see you, tomorrow. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: He's called affordability a con job and a scam. What President Trump just told voters in Pennsylvania about it tonight, and how Senator Bernie Sanders will respond live in just moments.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, President Trump is on the road, in Pennsylvania, trying to alleviate anxious Americans' concerns that the economic state of what's happening here in the United States that they feel is overblown, and that because of his policies, as the President put it tonight, the economy is roaring.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're bringing those prices down rapidly. Lower prices, bigger paychecks. You're getting lower prices, bigger paychecks. We're getting -- inflation, we're crushing it.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: And you're getting much higher wages. I mean, the only thing that used -- it's really going up big, it's called the stock market, and your 401(k)s.
(CHEERING) (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The challenge that is facing the President and his party, despite that rosy outlook that you heard there and the cheering crowd behind him, is that Americans who have been to the grocery store lately, or watched their medical bills pile up, or even tried to buy a new home, know what's going on in America, when it comes to cost.
The President spoke for more than an hour tonight, way over an hour actually, relishing the moment before his MAGA-faithful, dancing to his now-familiar playlist.
One thing he notably did not do though, this evening, is propose any new plans to address the economic anxiety that so many Americans are feeling. Instead, the President put a lot of the blame on Democrats and his predecessor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They have a new word. You know, they always have a hoax. The new word is affordability.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: So, they look at the camera, and they say, This election is all about affordability.
Democrats talking about affordability is like Bonnie and Clyde preaching about public safety.
And I can't say affordability hoax, because I agree, the prices were too high, so I can't go to hoax, because they'll misconstrue that. But they use the word, affordability, and that's their only word. They say, Affordability. And everyone says, Oh, that must mean Trump has high prices.
No, our prices are coming down tremendously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President's go-to political message has often been more about assigning blame than usually projecting that he is feeling voters' pain.
It's a stance that even some of his own members of his own party have been sounding the alarm about, especially ahead of the 2026 midterms, and that's because of this. The facts are that prices are higher than they were when the President was sworn in, last January. Inflation is practically in the same place that it was, when he took over. And American households have more debt than ever right now.
The President sees the fact that he's lost a majority of the Americans, on what had been his signature issue as more of a PR problem than a policy one, we are told by sources here at CNN.
But compare the number that you see here on your screen. A 36 percent approval when it comes to the economy. That's what the voters are telling pollsters about how they view the job that the President is doing.
Compare that to the grade that he gave himself, when it came to the economy today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DASHA BURNS, POLITICO PLAYBOOK'S CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF: I do want to talk about the economy, sir, here at home. And -- and I wonder what grade you would give your economy.
TRUMP: A-plus.
BURNS: A-plus?
TRUMP: Yes, A-plus-plus-plus-plus-plus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My lead source tonight is the Independent senator, Bernie Sanders of Vermont.
And thank you, Senator, for being here.
The President gives himself an A-plus-plus-plus-plus-plus. That's five pluses on the economy. What grade do you give him?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, Kaitlan, if this is an A-plus-plus- plus economy, God help us if we ever get to a B or a C.
And he talks about he's lowering prices. Well, right now, all over this country, people are getting insurance notices that their premiums for the ACA are going to double, in some cases, triple or quadruple.
Trump can lie all that he wants. But when people walk into a grocery store, they see the outrageous prices they're now paying. When housing costs all over this country are going up? When kids can't afford to go to college? When 60 percent of our people are living paycheck to paycheck? No, we do have an affordability crisis.
[21:05:00]
I think the problem with Trump is he hangs out with his billionaire friends all of the time. And I got to admit, for his billionaire friends, he is, in fact, an A-plus president. They are never -- they have never done as well as they are right now. They are getting richer and richer, while tens of millions of Americans struggle to put food on the table.
COLLINS: You've traveled across the country a bunch, not just in your -- you know, when you ran for president. But obviously, you did your big oligarchy tour -- anti-oligarchy tour, earlier this year.
When voters hear the President say that affordability is a hoax and a con job that is meant to damage him, by Democrats, how do you think the voters hear that?
SANDERS: I think it backfires. I mean, Trump lies all of the time. And sometimes, you can get away with lies when people are not familiar with an issue.
But to talk about how prices are going down, when your health care costs are soaring, and when you can't afford groceries, you can't afford housing, you can't afford child care? People say, You know what? This guy is either lying or he's way out of touch with reality.
So, I think when he says those stupid things, like he gives himself an A-plus for the economy, the economy has never, ever been better? I think that kind of backfires.
COLLINS: The President often talks about what inflation was, when President Biden was in office, what costs looked like then. I mean, rightfully so, those were huge concerns by voters then.
And so, I think when you see this, and considering Democrats spent a lot of last year, boosting up President Biden's economy, and saying that he should be reelected, what do you say to voters who don't trust Democrats, when it comes to the argument that they would handle the economy better?
SANDERS: Well, As an Independent, I share some of those concerns. I think the Democrats clearly have not been bold enough in a number of areas.
Look, Kaitlan, while Trump's big, beautiful bill is going to throw 15 million people off of Medicaid, and while this big, beautiful bill is going to double premiums to people on the ACA on average, the truth of the matter is, before the big, beautiful bill, our health care system was a disaster, it is dysfunctional.
And the American people and Democrats have got to deal with the fact. Why are we, the richest country on Earth, the only major nation not to guarantee health care to all people? Why don't we have enough doctors and nurses and dentists? Why is our life expectancy lower than other countries, especially for working-class people? Why do 40 percent of people who get diagnosed with cancer, either go bankrupt or deplete their financial savings? This is an insane, disgraceful health care system.
Now, we're getting more and more support, I have to say, good news, for Medicare for All, to do what other countries are doing. Not enough. Democrats have got to jump on to that.
It is disgraceful that our federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. That is embarrassing. Democrats were not successful in fighting to raise that minimum wage, to make it easier for workers to form unions, to make college affordable for all of our kids, regardless of their income backgrounds.
COLLINS: Yes.
SANDERS: And by the way, people are concerned about A.I. and what that is going to be doing to the economy. Democrats are going to have to come on board to protect working-class people in that reality.
COLLINS: Well, you talked about more support for Medicare for All. Right now, Democrats, where you're standing on Capitol Hill, are struggling to even get support to extend the Obamacare subsidies, something that they have been fighting for.
And as you know, the Republican leader in the Senate is going to have you all vote on Senator Bill Cassidy, also a Republican's, health care proposal, this Thursday. That bill does not extend the expiring enhanced Obamacare subsidies. It does expand health savings accounts, and it includes funding for Americans to spend on health expenses.
Democrats say they're going to put up their plan to just extend the subsidies.
Neither one is expected to pass, though, I think is the important thing of what we're hearing tonight. So, what happens to the 22 million Americans, whose premiums are about to go up?
SANDERS: Well, Mr. Trump may have to explain to them why their prices are going down, when they're going to see a doubling in their premiums. The reality is, it is a disaster, and it's just another indication of a failure of our health care system.
Look, my own view is, I am not a great supporter of the Affordable Care Act. But I think we have got to extend the tax credits, because you cannot allow millions of people to see huge increases in their premiums.
[21:10:00]
But if we are able to do that, and I suspect that you're right that we're not going to be able to do that, we need to take the time to ask ourselves a very simple question. Why are we spending twice as much per capita on health care as the people of any other major country, all of whom manage to provide health care to all of their people as a right? And the answer is, our current health care system is dominated by the insurance companies and drug companies. They want more and more money and profits. It is succeeding for them.
We need to expand Medicare, guarantee health care to every man, woman and child. We can do that in a cost-effective way.
COLLINS: So, that's a place where you would agree with the President then, actually, because he says trillions of dollars are going to these insurance companies. Way too much money is going to these insurance companies has been a big argument that he's been making.
SANDERS: Yes, but he's a fraud. Yes, that's what he says.
Now, what's the answer? Good. My view is that we should get rid of the private insurance companies, expand Medicare, cover dental, hearing and vision. And over a four-year period, make sure that everybody in America has health care as a human right.
That is, by no means what Trump is talking about. He's talking about giving people a $1,000 or $2,000 when you know, if you end up in a hospital, you're going to spend several hundred thousand dollars. He's talking about getting people into the so-called Bronze plan with huge deductibles.
The truth is, rather embarrassingly, Republicans have nothing significant to say about health care and the crisis that we're facing.
COLLINS: So, you think that this is going to happen this week, nothing is going to get passed, and these extensions are going to expire?
SANDERS: I feel that -- and it's -- it's a tragedy. I mean, I talk to people in Vermont--
COLLINS: You think people are prepared for that?
SANDERS: Well, I got to tell you, if you are 62 years of age, you and your wife, in Southern Vermont, and you're making $80,000 a year? You're not going to see a doubling in your premiums. You're going to see a tripling or quadrupling. That's true all over the country.
People are going to be spending 40, 50 percent of their incomes on health care. That is insane. Are they prepared for it? No, of course, they're not prepared for it. It's a disaster.
COLLINS: When it comes to the administration, there was something that the Vice President said about you. I want to read you the quote. I'm not sure if you've seen this, Senator Sanders.
But he told NBC News, Vice President JD Vance did, that he's always been fascinated by you. He said, I will one day tell you what Bernie said to me, like the second day that I was in the U.S. Senate. It's one of the funniest things that I've ever heard, and it's actually a pretty good summary of my politics. But it would probably hurt me on both the left and the right. If I told you what Bernie told me, it would probably hurt Bernie, too.
Do you remember what you said to then-Senator Vance?
SANDERS: Not quite as dramatic as I think he is making it out to be. He dropped into the office early on. We had a chat, a nice chat. But I do not believe that I said anything which was quite as earth- shattering as he suggests.
COLLINS: So, you don't remember what -- I mean, do you know exactly what it was that he's talking about?
SANDERS: No. I do remember we had a nice chat for about an hour or so.
COLLINS: Would you say that you were fascinated by him, that he says he's fascinated by you?
SANDERS: I say it was fascinating -- I'm not fascinated by him. Like, we had a good discussion.
COLLINS: Can I also ask you, when it comes to the Senate? Jasmine Crockett, a Congresswoman from Texas, says that she's going to be running for the Senate seat there. Do you plan to endorse her? Is that on the table for you?
SANDERS: I don't endorse anybody who hasn't asked me. There's another candidate out there running who is strong as well. So no, I -- we will see what happens. But it's premature to be talking about any type of endorsement in Texas.
COLLINS: OK. So, it sounds like you might support another candidate in this race.
SANDERS: No--
COLLINS: I think--
SANDERS: I didn't say that either. We will see what happens. I don't endorse anybody who doesn't ask for an endorsement. I've not been asked in Texas yet.
We're supporting, at this moment, three very good candidates in Maine, Minnesota, and Michigan. We're supporting probably a dozen, 15 very good House candidates. That's where we are right now.
COLLINS: Texas has been this kind of white whale for Democrats that you caucus with. Obviously, you rightly noted you're an Independent. Do you think that Democrats could actually win a Senate seat there, this time?
SANDERS: Don't get me going on Texas.
Texas should be, in my view, one of the most progressive states in America. It's a working-class state. It's a young state. Strong Latino population. Strong black population.
And how the Democratic leadership in Texas -- and it's changed, by the way. It has changed. But the Democratic leadership, previously in Texas, was pathetic. I've been there several times. But I think things are changing, and I think they're getting their act together, and I think there's no reason why Texas should not be a progressive state.
COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, always candid, and we always appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us.
SANDERS: Thank you.
COLLINS: You just heard from Senator Sanders.
My next source is the latest Republican who has been voicing her frustration with her party's leadership. What does Congresswoman Nancy Mace have to say about what's happening here in Washington?
And also tonight, that new trove of documents just ordered unsealed when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, what they could tell us.
And also, CNN has that newly-released video of the moment that Luigi Mangione was arrested at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your name?
LUIGI MANGIONE, ACCUSED OF KILLING UNITEDHEALTHCARE CEO BRIAN THOMPSON: Uh, Mark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it?
MANGIONE: Mark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark?
MANGIONE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark what?
MANGIONE: Rosario.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump asserted tonight that the economy has already been fixed.
That is something that stands in growing contrast to what we're hearing from a bunch of Republicans, on Capitol Hill, who have been acknowledging that the failure to act, when it comes to health care, as you just heard from Senator Sanders there say he believes is probably inevitable, could actually cost them, next November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How big of a problem would it be for your party if you do not come up with a plan for health care?
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Well, I mean, I don't -- I just don't know how Republicans would explain that to 24 million Americans whose premiums are going to double.
[21:20:00]
RAJU: Are you worried that you guys are on the wrong side of public opinions?
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): Yes well -- it very well could be, if we don't come up with something to let American people know that we're trying to fix this. And we are.
RAJU: And if you don't have something viable, what is the -- what are the implications for that -- for your party?
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Well, I think they could be significant. Look, the Democrats created the problem. We've got to solve it. Or, going into next year, we will own a problem that they created.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight is another Republican from Capitol Hill, Congresswoman Nancy Mace, who is also running for governor in South Carolina. And joins me now.
And thank you so much for being here.
Obviously, they're talking about health care there. I want to talk about that.
But on the economy, just overall, the President today said he gives it an A-plus-plus-plus-plus-plus. Five pluses. Do you think that's what voters in South Carolina think right now?
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Well, certainly when you're looking at the growth of the economy and GDP, we've had multiple quarters this year, have 4 percent GDP growth. And we'll see real GDP growth at 3 percent at the end of this year. So that is enormous for the economy. Wages went up about 1 percent actually, over the course of this year.
But the cost of living, in a state like South Carolina, where we're one of the top fastest-growing states in the country by population growth, the cost of living has skyrocketed, which is why any plan to cut taxes -- we saw the President implement no taxes on tips, no taxes on Social Security, et cetera. We have to do the same thing in states like South Carolina, where we have one of the highest state income taxes in the southeast at 6, 6.2 percent right now.
COLLINS: And as you've been running for governor, I assume you've been talking to a lot of voters--
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: --hearing from, a lot of their concerns. Would they say, though, that affordability is a con job?
MACE: Number one issue.
COLLINS: So, not a con job?
MACE: It is the number one issue in South Carolina. That and illegal immigration. We have Tren de Aragua, Sinaloa Cartel, MS-13 in South Carolina. We have sanctuary sheriffs, even though we've banned sanctuary policies in our state.
Roads and bridges. The kitchen table, bread and butter, issues that affect everyday-hard-working Americans are what people are focused on right now. And it is the economy, it is wages, it is jobs, it is, Can I afford this mortgage or this rent?
How do I -- as me running for governor, I have a plan to cut the state income tax down to zero in less than five years, because of the huge growth that we're having. I think we can do it in two to three, reasonably and responsibly, in a sane and stable manner.
COLLINS: So given that, how do you think voters hear the President's speech tonight, when he's saying, Prices are down, inflation is down or virtually non-existent, as he stated.
Obviously, that's not the case.
MACE: Well, I mean, I agree with him, with the strength of the economy right now. We didn't have that in the last four years. But that's where we are now.
One of the points that Secretary Bessent made this weekend was that inflation -- the inflation woes we have now, is related to the service industry, the service economy, not to tariffs.
And so, what we're seeing, Trump's even talking about giving billions of dollars to farmers and creating a--
COLLINS: Yes, he's giving them $12 billion.
MACE: Yes. And creating a fund for kids, for children who are born, giving them $1,000 when they're born, to go into a fund for them that will be invested. And so, we're doing things that have never been done before in the history of the country, because he's building this really very strong economy.
COLLINS: Yes, but the $12 billion is because of the tariffs, obviously--
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: --that have been hurting farmers, which as you know--
MACE: And that -- that money is going to go back into the economy. Same thing with tax breaks. I believe we're going to see in Q1 of 2026, because of the tax breaks that Trump created, you're going to see people, when they get that money back, they're going to reinvest it into the economy. Economy is going to continue to grow.
COLLINS: OK. But you're saying what you've heard of the campaign trail is that affordability is a big concern for voters?
MACE: Affordability, cost of living, mortgage, rent.
Child care is very important. We've got, in D.C. -- we're in D.C., right now. For example, there are some very regulations that increase the cost of child care, for example. You have to have a four-year college degree to be in child care in Washington. Like, that doesn't make sense. There are states that -- there's no reciprocity with people who are qualified caregivers.
There're just things that we're doing regulation-wise, that we could, to immediately reduce the cost of goods.
COLLINS: Well, can I ask you about Washington? Because you had an opinion piece in The New York Times, that made a lot of headlines and waves here in Washington.
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: And part of it, you said, Republicans have a governing trifecta: the House, the Senate and the White House.
You said, If we fail to pass legislation that permanently secures the border, addresses the affordability crisis, improves health care and restores law and order, we will lose this majority. And we will deserve it.
MACE: We just saw President Trump run on his policies and win in a landslide in November. And we have yet to implement and codify his executive orders, his agenda in the U.S. south.
COLLINS: Why not?
MACE: Well, that's a great question. I mean, one of the -- couple things that I cited in my Op-Ed was that there are massive -- there's massive support for banning stock trading, for members of Congress, massive support for term limits, massive support for voter ID, et cetera.
But we can't get Republicans or Democrats, by the way. It's not just a Mike Johnson problem. Hakeem Jeffries, too. Everyone says, We're all for these things, and 80 to 90 percent of America is for it too, but we won't bring these things to the floor for a vote.
COLLINS: Yes, but Hakeem Jeffries can't bring a bill to the floor for a vote. Mike Johnson, the Speaker can, as--
[21:25:00]
MACE: Yes, and I -- and I blame our party for not doing that. And if we don't implement President Trump's agenda? If we don't codify his executive orders? If we don't deliver on his promises for him and the American people? It will be a bloodbath in the midterms.
COLLINS: Well and on health concern -- health care concerns, primarily. There are almost 632,000 people in your home state, as you know, that are going to see their health care premiums potentially double as a result of these expirations.
The Speaker said today that he anticipates working on health care through the second quarter of next year, because he says there's a lot to fix.
He did tell us recently, when we had him on the show last, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: If the government reopened tonight, would Republicans have a plan to address the Obamacare subsidies?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, we do. We have proposals to--
COLLINS: You would have a plan tonight?
JOHNSON: Yes, we could have that ready immediately, yes.
COLLINS: OK. But a proposal's different than a plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was October 23rd. Here it is, December 9th. Do you think that Speaker Johnson has a health care plan?
MACE: Well, we haven't seen any language yet. But I would say the first thing that we should do to address health care in this country is look at how government has contributed to the problem. We have overregulation in many markets. We have states that still have Certificate of Need programs. We don't have price transparency. Trump is working on that now.
But because of the lack of competition in the market, because of government subsidies, because of over-regulations, the cost of health care is exponential today. It is unattainable and unaffordable for most middle-class Americans. And thank God there are businesses who have come on board that pay for health care premiums, that at least partially or in full, when you're talking to these small businesses.
But there are a lot of government regulations, we have to remove and also quantify. We have in South Carolina, for example, doctors, when they leave a hospital system to start their own -- their own practice, they can't compete with the hospital within a certain mileage.
COLLINS: Yes, but--
MACE: It's just crazy what we're doing to the health care market.
COLLINS: So, you're a Republican, and you're saying you have not seen a Republican plan to be--
(CROSSTALK)
MACE: I've not seen any language. No language -- there's no language that's been out. If we're going to vote on health care, next week, which is a rumor, no one has seen the plan. We haven't read it. I would like to see it. I would like to put my teeth into it.
Because I look at a state like South Carolina, where over-regulation has hurt the market, and I want to make sure that we're -- whether we're talking about PBMs, whether we're talking about pharmaceuticals, whether we're talking about a nurse practitioner just basically being able to execute what she's certified and qualified to do. These small changes can make a huge, huge difference in the health care market.
COLLINS: And Marjorie Taylor Greene is someone who has also voiced her concerns with the Republican leadership. She's actually resigning from her position, from her job, as a member of Congress, in just a few weeks from now. This is what she said, earlier today, when she was here on CNN, about the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I feel very sorry for President Trump. I genuinely do. It has to be a hard place for someone that is constantly so hateful and puts so much vitriol, name-calling, and really tells lies about people, in order to try to get his way or win some kind of fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you agree with her?
MACE: I agree that President Trump is a fighter, and he's fighting for values that the American people believe in. He's been very -- very--
COLLINS: Well she wasn't saying that in a good way.
MACE: --very effective in -- you know, it does sadden me to see President Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene be at odds with one another. I want the MAGA movement to be cohesive, to be together. The MAGA movement is what delivered President Trump the presidency in November. It's why he ran in a landslide. I like his ideas. I like his policies.
I'm also sad to see Marjorie Taylor Greene go. I think she's been very smart, very effective. She knows procedural motions. She knows legislation. She was effective on the Oversight Committee. Was a serious lawmaker. And it's going to hurt us in the long run.
But she's also right. They're both right. And we're not delivering on our promises or on Trump's promises. And Trump was actually caught on the hot mic, yesterday, lamenting that Republicans haven't implemented his attorney generals, like permanently installed them yet. The time is going to run out. And so, I agree with him on his frustration and hers too. We can -- they're not mutually exclusive.
COLLINS: You were involved in an incident at the Charleston airport, back in October. There was an internal police investigation report that came out in recent days. It says that you turned what was described as a minor miscommunication by police, into a spectacle, and left airport employees visibly upset.
What was your reaction when you read this report?
MACE: Well, part of the -- the report was actually falsified. And the documents that were released by the airport yesterday, I want to thank the airport for releasing them. We asked for all the video, all the audio, everything, all the bodycam. And the video that was released yesterday showed me asking TSA agents for help and for assistance. And conveniently, there is no audio that goes with it.
[21:30:00] And the last time that I checked was asking for help isn't against the law, nor is being frustrated. We saw in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's death, numerous death threats just exponentially multiply. I have multiple people sitting in jail right now, behind bars, without bond, because of the death threats that I receive on a daily basis. So, I take my security seriously, and that, to me, is very, very important.
And I back the blue. I back our police. I back our security. In my district in South Carolina, I've gotten millions of dollars for local law enforcement, to support them in their efforts to keep our community safe.
But what's not OK is falsifying reports, falsifying incident reports. I've taken on top cops, like Kim Cheadle, after Donald Trump was shot. I helped get her -- force her resignation when she came through--
COLLINS: Yes, but you--
MACE: --with the oversight hearing--
COLLINS: You just said, you back the blue.
The police quote you in this report as you calling them effing idiots and effing incompetent, while stating that you're an effing representative, and telling a TSA supervisor, I'm sick of your shit, I'm tired of having to wait, I should not have to wait--
MACE: Also--
COLLINS: --You guys are always effing late, and this is effing ridiculous.
MACE: Well you're--
COLLINS: Are you saying you didn't say those things?
MACE: Well, you're quoting a document that was, in part, falsified. They say a lot of things, and the video doesn't show that. There's no audio. I asked for all the bodycam footage and the audio.
They also state in the report that there was an incident at the gate. The video shows nothing. That didn't happen.
And so, for me, it's important that we tell the truth. And I've taken responsibility. Yes, I was absolutely, a 100 percent frustrated.
COLLINS: But did you say those things that -- your quote that I just read?
MACE: No, the -- no, I did not. I mean, I definitely--
COLLINS: So, you're saying that police officers are lying?
MACE: No, I'm saying, that is in part false, and they, they -- that is a falsified document. There are things in there -- most of what's in there that's quoted is not true.
Did I -- so that, to me, is important that we tell the truth. I asked for audio, and I asked for bodycam footage, and they didn't release it. They say it doesn't exist. I asked for that because I think it's important that we tell the truth. That you -- I don't even remember that morning. But what I do remember is being at the gate and being on a conference call. And like last time I checked--
COLLINS: You don't remember having this tense interaction with the officers?
MACE: Oh, I definitely was frustrated, a 100 percent frustrated. I definitely, when the -- when the law enforcement finally showed up for the security detail, I absolutely was frustrated. But the video that they released are showing me, asking for help, like I asked TSA agents for help when I was looking for security.
COLLINS: Well, there's also part of the video there's -- where you're just speaking to a TSA agent.
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: There's also part of the video where you're walking down the hallway, and there are two officers behind you.
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: I assume they're the ones who spoke to the--
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: --to the investigators--
MACE: And where I'm pointing -- I was pointing to a security desk, where the -- where the airport security usually sit and wait. And I was asking the TSA agent, if she could call down to the security desk and get assistance for me. So like, that's not -- asking TSA for help isn't--
COLLINS: But do you--
MACE: --against the law.
COLLINS: But you're -- are you saying that you never said any of these quotes, that every single one is a lie?
MACE: You'll have to read it to me again. I did not say that--
COLLINS: Effing idiots.
MACE: I did not call them idiots.
COLLINS: Effing incompetent.
MACE: I didn't--
COLLINS: And you're an effing representative.
MACE: I did not say that. I did not call--
COLLINS: And you didn't say, I'm sick of your shit--
MACE: I have--
COLLINS: --I'm tired of having to wait. I should not have to wait. You guys are always effing late--
MACE: No.
COLLINS: --This is effing ridiculous.
MACE: No. I mean, no, I didn't -- I've never called a cop an idiot. That is a remarkably false statement--
COLLINS: But you're saying these police officers are lying then who spoke to the investigators--
MACE: I -- I am absolutely saying that that report was falsified, a 100 percent fictitious, falsified.
They were not there. They did not show up. I was very frustrated with the situation because of the number of death threats that I receive, and I expressed that frustration.
But in no way, shape or form, did I call any of them idiots. I didn't even know that was in the report until you told me just now. I never said -- I would never -- I have never called someone idiot. That is -- that is shocking to me.
COLLINS: When you look back on that day and what you said. I guess you haven't read the report, if you haven't--
MACE: Well every part of it. I just, you know--
COLLINS: --because those reports are--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: But when you look back on the day--
MACE: It was such political hitjob.
COLLINS: --do you regret? I think everyone can understand being concerned, about being a public figure--
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: --especially being a member of Congress, especially after the Charlie Kirk assassination. But do you regret your actions and how you did speak towards the airport employees or the police officers that day?
MACE: Well, expressing one's frustration isn't, I mean, isn't illegal, like it's not -- you can be frustrated.
COLLINS: No one's saying you committed a crime.
MACE: Well, but they -- but they filed--
COLLINS: I think they're just saying, do you regret how you acted?
MACE: --a police incident report. Like, the idea that expressing one's frustration is an arrestable offense is deeply, is offenses -- it's obscene.
And what the video showed yesterday that they released, showed me asking for help. And the video they released of me at the gate showed me on a conference call, and then I scan my ticket on my cell phone on the scanning machine, and then I put my phone back up, and the airport gate agent said, I said, Good morning. Like, there was nothing wrong with--
COLLINS: I actually -- I read that they said that you didn't -- the gate agent said you didn't actually respond to them--
MACE: He said -- he said a good morning or what--
COLLINS: --when they were getting on--
(CROSSTALK)
MACE: Yes, because I was on my--
COLLINS: They said good morning to you, and you just--
(CROSSTALK)
MACE: I was on a conference call.
COLLINS: OK. But you -- you don't--
MACE: So like--
COLLINS: Just -- I just want to be clear though.
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: Because I think everyone's reading this report. We saw what Senator Tim Scott--
MACE: It's wild--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: --had to say from your home state about this, saying, you know--
MACE: Yes.
COLLINS: --it's not OK to berate police officers and airport staff who were just doing their jobs, and that it's not becoming to use vulgar language as a member of Congress.
But you don't express regret--
MACE: I mean, I--
COLLINS: --about that day.
[21:35:00]
MACE: --I use vulgar language frequently. I mean, the President does. I do, I guess. Because I'm a House member, just a lowly House number, I'm not allowed to do that, I don't know. But I do express my frustration.
I do take responsibility for my words. I always have. But the idea that I would call somebody an idiot? I have never done that in my life. And to me, it was an incredible hitjob. It was effective. Was a very effective political hitjob. But that's all that it was. And--
COLLINS: Who do you think was doing the hitjob?
MACE: Oh, it was the Attorney General, Alan Wilson. I mean, literally--
COLLINS: You think he conspired, like with the police and TSA--
MACE: Oh, a 100 percent. Six--
COLLINS: --at the airport?
MACE: Six minutes after they released the falsified reports, he had a news release and a press thing on social media, like it was all, boom, boom, boom. And so that, to me, it's a very -- it was a very effective political hitjob.
But I'm not going to sit here and allow the mainstream media, to allow the press, to concoct a story that didn't -- I mean--
COLLINS: Yes, we're just reading the report.
MACE: I know. It's crazy to me that the media would believe a falsified report when I show you, here's the video, here's -- and they released all the video. Here's the video showing what I did not do. And yet, you're just going to take the words from a falsified police report and say, Oh, this happened.
And in the police report, it said that the gate agent--
COLLINS: Yes.
MACE: --the gate agent, said I did something. But the video shows I did -- I was on a conference call. It's just wild to me.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Nancy Mace, thank you for--
MACE: Thank you. COLLINS: --for joining us tonight.
MACE: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next here for us. Another race that we are projecting tonight. Miami's mayoral race just for the first time went Democrat in three decades. My political sources are here to talk about what this means for Democrats and also for Republicans.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: For nearly three decades, and yes, you're hearing that music correctly, a Republican has led the city of Miami from City Hall. But that streak has ended tonight. Hence the election music. CNN is now projecting that the Democrat in that race, Eileen Higgins, is going to win the Miami's Mayor race, defeating the Trump-backed Republican city manager, Emilio Gonzalez.
This is the latest strong performance that we are seeing play out, by Democrats in elections, during the first year of President Trump's second term, as they've continued to ride a strong wave of momentum in these off-year races.
My political sources are here with me tonight.
Former Obama White House senior adviser, Ashley Allison.
And Republican strategist, Brad Todd.
And Brad, this is the candidate that just, I think, two days ago, the President said it was a big and important race. He said, Vote for the Republican Gonzalez, that he is fantastic. What do you make of the fact that he lost tonight? What are you reading into that?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, CO- FOUNDER, ONMESSAGE INC.: Well, you're not going to hear me diminish the fact this is a largely ceremonial office, and it's typically a low-wattage election. You're not going to hear me do that.
What I'm going to tell you is if we have 20 percent turnout in the midterms, like we did tonight, we're going to get our tails kicked in every election. And the message for Republicans here is that we have to do better with turnout.
Our party has a lot of low-propensity voters in our current coalition. That means we have to work really hard to get them out in non- presidential elections. That is the signature challenge of this election for us, right now, that campaigns and candidates can control.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, PUBLISHER, THE ROOT, FORMER OBAMA WH SENIOR POLICY ADVISER: I mean, I actually--
COLLINS: You stunned her. ALLISON: Wow. I'm stunned, because it's rare that I hear Republicans say that their voting constituents are low-propensity. That is often a term or adjective that is applied to young voters, to African American voters, to vote -- like only presidential voters.
And so, I too think that Democrats have to do a turnout game.
But what I will say is that this candidate that won is a progressive Democrat. And so for, after the 2024 elections, I think progressives got this smear campaign done on them that that's the reason why the Vice President lost the presidential election.
And it's just not true, because what we're seeing in the indication is that if you run on progressive ideas, like affordability, like treating people with dignity, even around immigration, which is something that is happening in Miami and was a key issue right there? You can win. And it seems like that's what this candidate did.
It also is telling, this reminds me of the last midterm elections, that Donald Trump's endorsement is not the thing that is going to get you over the finish line, in midterms. He is the candidate that gets himself over the finish line. It doesn't mean the people he endorsed goes over.
COLLINS: Do you think that's fair? Because there is a real question. The President was saying tonight that Susie Wiles, we played the sound bite last night, where she said that he's going to be campaigning like it's 2024 in 2026.
Is that going to be helpful, if he's out there?
TODD: Well, I think--
COLLINS: What does that look like?
TODD: --that his presence in strong Republican areas helps with low- propensity Republican voters. By definition, those voters are voters that like Donald Trump a lot better than they like a lot of other Republicans. And so, when they hear him say it's important? That does help. But that's going to end up being in-person most of the time, I think, in the 2026 midterm elections.
I mean, again, this is a race with 20,000 -- 20 percent, 36,000 people voted in Miami. It's not -- it's not a big election. And there aren't many swing voters on either side. I don't know, I don't want to make too many judgments about the messaging or the issues, because at 20 percent--
ALLISON: Yes--
TODD: --there are no swing voters.
ALLISON: But this has been a -- this has been a seat that has been held by a Republican for 30 years.
TODD: That's right. ALLISON: If this was New York, I would take it. This is Miami. This is--
TODD: Losing's--
ALLISON: We're not talking the same thing, New York and Miami. You should pay attention to it.
TODD: Losing is bad. Losing is bad. Don't get me wrong.
ALLISON: We know.
COLLINS: And that is why we bring you on for that superb political analysis.
Brad Todd. Ashley Allison. Great to have you.
TODD: Thanks.
COLLINS: Losing is bad.
Up next here for us. A judge has just granted the Justice Department special access to those unsealed records on Ghislaine Maxwell, the convicted accomplice of Jeffrey Epstein. What do my congressional sources, one who has been leading the investigation on this, have to say about it. We'll find out, next.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, despite her efforts to stop it, the case against Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, is now set to be unsealed.
That's because a federal judge has granted the Justice Department's request to release a trove of documents from its investigation into Maxwell, who was convicted of recruiting and grooming young girls for Jeffrey Epstein. The judge's decision cites the new law that was just passed by Congress, forcing the Justice Department to release all of its files related to Jeffrey Epstein, by next Friday.
My congressional sources are here tonight.
Congressman Robert Garcia is the top Democrat, on the House Oversight Committee, which is leading the Epstein investigation on Capitol Hill.
And Democratic senator, Richard Blumenthal, sits on the Judiciary, Armed Services and the Homeland Security committees.
So, it's great to have both of you here tonight.
And Congressman, what do you make of this move by the judge? What are we going to see?
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Well, first, it's a good decision. [21:50:00]
At the end of the day, we know that Ghislaine Maxwell did horrific things, monstrous things, to women and children. We also know that there is a lot of information that the prosecution had, within that case, that could be important to the Oversight Committee.
There are financial records there. There's information about who she was working with, co-conspirators, who was actually paying Jeffrey Epstein, what the network actually looked like. So, that could be critical investigation for us in the Congress.
COLLINS: Well, and as we wait to see what the DOJ has to see about that.
The DOD has been up on Capitol Hill, as you know, Senator, when it comes to this briefing for top lawmakers, when it comes to the boat strikes that we've been seeing play out today.
Senator Chuck Schumer did not seem very pleased by what he heard today. He said it was unsatisfying. He asked Secretary Hegseth that he would let everyone see the unedited videos of those strikes.
And he said, We have to study it.
I mean, the strike that we're talking about happened September 2nd. Do you think three months is enough time for them to decide if they're going to let you all see that?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Three months is more than enough time. In fact, release of the videos, all of the documents, is long overdue.
There is a through line between the Epstein case, where they've concealed documents and are revealing them now, only because of the extraordinary leadership of Congressman Garcia, and the passage, as we did in the Senate, as well as the House, of the Epstein Files Transparency Act.
And now, on Hegseth, I think we're on the verge, we should be, of issuing subpoenas and demanding that the videos, the underlying orders, the documents that show what Hegseth said they must do, the directives, the transmission, all of the oral orders, have to be revealed.
And I'm very fearful, Kaitlan, that there may be destruction or loss of documents, because I've seen too many times, as a prosecutor, that material evidence disappears, shredded or lost at sea.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, the other oversight that Democrats have been working on is when it comes to the Department of Homeland Security, and who they've been detaining.
And you both held a forum today, to hear testimony from five U.S. citizens, who say that they were assaulted and illegally detained by the Department of Homeland Security.
I want everyone to listen to one of them who says he was taken during a raid at his job in Southern California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE RETES, DETAINED BY ICE: I identified myself as a U.S. citizen and a veteran, but that didn't matter. Agents smashed my window, sprayed tear gas and pepper spray into my car, and dragged me out. I was choking on gas, unable to breathe, while officers shouted conflicting commands. Even after I complied.
I was taken to a detention center and held for three days without charges. No phone call. No lawyer. No medical care, even though my skin burned from the chemicals.
My family had no idea where I was. I was released without explanation and without a single charge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: DHS responded to that and claimed he was violent, that he wasn't complying.
What did you take away from what you heard today?
GARCIA: I mean, those are -- DHS is lying. I mean, first, I mean I -- Senator Blumenthal and I are committed to get justice for these U.S. citizens. These are Americans. They are just as part of our country as anybody else. And they have been attacked. They have been lied to. They have been sent to confinement.
The gentleman that you just heard from right now, George, is a veteran who served in Iraq. He was sent into detention for three days, without the ability to reach his family, no phone call, no access to a lawyer, no access to actually take care of himself or his own health. And this is someone that served our country, who did nothing wrong.
And this is happening to U.S. citizens and their due process? Imagine what is happening to other non-citizens who also have a right to due process under our Constitution.
So, what's happening right now at DHS is outrageous, and everyone, one, should be scared for their own safety. But also, they've got to be held accountable.
COLLINS: And what were your takeaways?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, what happened to George Retes, a U.S. Army veteran, who offered proof of his citizenship, could happen to anyone. Literally, could happen to you, if you are brown or black, if you have a Spanish accent, a Hispanic demeanor, or if you're working in certain occupation, a restaurant or a carwash. And the point is that DHS is targeting people of certain race, employment and language.
And my takeaway was the extraordinary cruelty, the brutality that they showed in the video of George, but also the four other witnesses, and the 22 who were documented in the report that the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations issued today. We did this investigation because hundreds, if not thousands, of United States citizens are treated with this brutality, in violation of their constitutional rights.
[21:55:00]
And looking forward, there needs to be accountability, not just for those agents who threw George Retes to the ground, and denied him access to phones, basic hygiene and other kinds of necessities, but also for the hundreds of other U.S. citizens.
And there needs to be accountability, at the very top, to Kristi Noem. I'm going to ask her to come to a similar kind of hearing. I'm very clear-eyed. I'm under no illusion that she's going to show up.
COLLINS: Yes. Let us know what she says back to that request.
Senator Blumenthal. Congressman Garcia. Great to have you both here tonight. Thank you for joining us.
And up next here for us. Speaking of bodycam video, we have some that was just released tonight, showing this moment. It is when officers confronted Luigi Mangione when he was on the run. What they said to the accused CEO killer, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: New body camera footage shows the moment Luigi Mangione was confronted by police, inside a Pennsylvania McDonald's, after the brazen killing of the Healthcare CEO, Brian Thompson, in Manhattan.
Mangione was arrested and later charged with second-degree murder, as he's also facing a separate federal prosecution where the death penalty is on the table. So far, he has pleaded not guilty.
Thank you all so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
