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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump's Chief Of Staff Criticizes Bondi Over Epstein Files; Rob & Michele Reiner's Son Charged With Murder In Their Deaths; New Video Released As Hunt For Brown Univ. Shooter Intensifies. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 16, 2025 - 21:00 ET
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The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: President Trump's Chief of Staff is unfiltered, and the White House is on defense after stunning quotes from inside his inner circle.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Susie Wiles might be the person with some of the most power in this administration that you often hear from the least. She's known as a disciplined political operator, who runs a tight ship, which is why the staff that she manages every day inside the West Wing were stunned, when Vanity Fair published her candid and blunt assessments of the President, the Vice President, their Cabinet, and internal disagreements.
Wiles sat down for 11 interviews with the author, Chris Whipple, who literally wrote the book on White House Chiefs of Staff. And he also spoke with the Vice President, the Secretary of State, and other key members of President Trump's inner circle for this interview, who all agreed to be photographed for this Vanity Fair cover story.
The administration has now spent the day since, attacking the magazine and its author. As Wiles herself tweeted, saying that the article was a disingenuously framed hit piece, and she said significant context of those interviews was disregarded. Notably, she did not say that anything was factually wrong or misquoted in this story.
Her comments were all the more remarkable today, because Wiles' own quotes, at times, undercut things that this administration has said, including when it comes to the Jeffrey Epstein files and the so-called client list.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's sitting on my desk right now to review.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I was never on his island. Bill Clinton went there supposedly 28 times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But according to the White House Chief of Staff, quote, "There is no client list, and it sure as hell wasn't on her desk."
Wiles also said that there is no evidence that former President Bill Clinton visited Jeffrey Epstein's island, and added, As for whether there was anything incriminating about Clinton in the files, Wiles said, The president was wrong about that.
She also offered candid criticism on where she believes the administration has made mistakes. For example, giving so much power to Elon Musk, whom she described as an avowed ketamine user, and also told Vanity Fair, quote, "No rational person could think the USAID" dismantling "process was a good one. Nobody."
Compare that to what we've heard from the White House press secretary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Elon Musk also has a little bit of commonsense, and I think the American people really appreciate that when it comes to the federal government. Because it seems like all commonsense has been lost in this city, and that's what you see when you look at USAID.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, after this interview landed, like a bombshell inside the West Wing, this morning, the President went on the record in support of his Chief of Staff, who has been incredibly loyal to him and probably one of his longest serving Chiefs of Staff and also campaign managers.
But her criticisms that were made inside that Vanity Fair piece also include some of the President's signature policies of his second term.
Regarding his trade war and his tariffs, she said that, It's been more painful than I expected.
On Venezuela and the boat strikes that have been the center of so much controversy on Capitol Hill. The President has argued that the objective of these boat strikes is to stop the flow of drugs into the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We just -- these came out of Venezuela, and coming out very heavily from Venezuela. We have a lot of drugs coming in from Venezuela, and a lot of the Venezuelan drugs come in through the seas.
It was massive amounts of drugs coming into our country to kill a lot of people.
And we're blowing the Venezuelan narco-terrorists. We're blowing them the hell out of the water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: In the words of his Chief of Staff, however, she said that, He wants to keep on blowing boats up until, Venezuela's leader, Maduro, cries uncle.
In this interview, the Chief of Staff also said that the President has what she described as an alcoholic's personality. Said that the Vice President has been a conspiracy theorist for a decade. That she wasn't fully on board with all of the January 6 pardons that the President signed. And said that while Trump does not wake up thinking about retribution, when there's an opportunity, he will go for it.
[21:05:00]
That disconnect between, of course, what we have heard from the President, what his own Chief of Staff is now saying on the record, comes as we have seen a relatively small but growing number of Republicans trying to distance themselves from the White House, at times. Perhaps no member of Congress has illustrated that shift better than my lead source tonight.
Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia had a lot to say, when I sat down with her, earlier this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Congresswoman, thank you for being here.
Obviously, it's been a big day here in Washington. And over at the White House, the people I've been talking to, it's a lot of the fallout from the Vanity Fair interview, the comments from Susie Wiles on the record, that they've been defending against.
Obviously, the President famously does not drink and never has.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Right.
COLLINS: But when Susie Wiles compares him, and says that he has the personality of an alcoholic, and the way she described that, she meant that he basically has a view that there's nothing he can't do. Nothing, zero, nothing.
Do you agree with that assessment?
TAYLOR GREENE: I disagree with that. And we saw the major fallout happen, yesterday, with his statements on the tragic murder of Rob Reiner and his wife.
MAGA faithful reacted big time, and they called it out. It's all over social media.
People, his supporters, including myself, we didn't appreciate hearing the President, who himself was shot, and after Charlie Kirk's horrific murder, we didn't appreciate -- even if -- even if you don't agree with Rob Reiner, politically, there was no reason for his statement to be the statement that he made.
COLLINS: Yes, when he says -- I mean, it was in the immediate aftermath of us finding out about Rob Reiner. And obviously now his son has been taken into custody.
You've said that his murder was not about politics or political enemies.
The President called him, bad for our country, and said, he was a deranged person as far as Trump is concerned.
TAYLOR GREENE: I thought that statement was absolutely, completely below the Office of the President of the United States, classless, and it was just wrong. That was a -- it's a tragic murder. It's a family ripped apart.
And from my understanding, what I've seen on the news, it was drug abuse and mental illness. And many families, across America, deal with family members that are drug addicts or have mental health issues. And I think the President should have responded with compassion and talked about those issues. He didn't have to make it about politics. And I think that was -- it was really below what we expect our President to talk like.
COLLINS: It's clearly also really tragic, just for the Reiner family.
TAYLOR GREENE: Oh, yes.
COLLINS: I mean, you have no problem calling out what the President said. But why do you think other Republicans have struggled to do so?
TAYLOR GREENE: I can't comprehend it.
But Kaitlan, I'd like to point something out. Just last week -- and I think the dam is breaking. Many Republicans may not have called him out. But last week, 13 Republicans voted with Democrats to overturn one of President Trump's executive orders, which enabled him to fire federal workers. We also saw Indiana Republicans vote against redistricting. He didn't call any of them, traitors, and call for primaries against them.
But I would like to say that that is a sign, where you're seeing Republicans, they're entering the campaign phase for 2026, which is a large signal that lame-duck season has begun, and that Republicans will go in, all-in for themselves, in order to save their own reelections.
COLLINS: You think the dam is breaking in terms of the President's iron grip of support when it comes to your party?
TAYLOR GREENE: Absolutely. Those 13 Republicans that voted to take down his executive order, last week, literally, that same evening, put on their tuxedos and their evening ball gowns, and went to the White House Christmas party. That's pretty bold.
COLLINS: What do you think that -- do you think that message is being received at the White House?
TAYLOR GREENE: I'm sure it's being received. And there's a lot of pushback happening. You're seeing it all within the conference.
And just to be clear, Kaitlan. I have a 98 percent voting record with President Trump.
The only places that I've stood against him on are, of course, with the victims of Jeffrey Epstein and the discharge petition. Against destroying state rights when it comes to making regulation and laws on AI. And then a few other issues, like bringing in 600,000 Chinese foreign students, replacing American students. And I'm largely opposed to H-1B visas and visas replacing American workers.
So, I've only broken from the President in a few places, but he came down on me the hardest. But yet, he's got real problems with Republicans, within the House and the Senate, that will be breaking with him on more things to come.
COLLINS: Yes, you wouldn't know that you have voted with him as often as you have, if you listen to his recent comments about you.
And he was really critical of you, when I asked him about, you saying that he needs to focus more on domestic issues than foreign issues.
[21:10:00]
That was something that Susie Wiles seemed to agree with, in this remarkable on-the-record interview. She said that there need to be more talks about the domestic economy and less about Saudi Arabia is probably called for.
Do you think that's a message that is breaking through with everyone but the President?
TAYLOR GREENE: Absolutely.
While CNN has been talking about affordability. All of a sudden, after Republicans got crushed in that election not too long ago, Fox News is all of a sudden willing to talk about affordability, because it is a crisis.
And health insurance is the coming crisis that we're trying to work on in the House, right now, but they waited too late. Speaker Johnson kept the government shut down for eight weeks -- not the government, I'm sorry. The House of Representatives. Kept us out of session for eight weeks, during the government shutdown. But yet, we could have been in Washington, working day in and day out, preparing for this upcoming crisis.
In my rural district, I have 75,000 people that are on ACA tax credits. And here's the truth for the Republican Party. The large portion of those 75,000 people are Republican voters. And so, this is a real issue. But instead of working hard to come up with a solution, they have waited till the last minute, and we're literally weeks away from those expiring.
COLLINS: Do you think Republicans are going to rue the day that those Obamacare subsidies expire?
TAYLOR GREENE: It appears to be that way. There's lot of arguments going on in the conference, and that's been happening all day today on the House floor.
COLLINS: Yes, it seemed quite tense today between House Speaker Mike Johnson, and some of the moderates who want a vote on those Obamacare subsidies.
On affordability. The President is going to address the nation, tomorrow night, he says to talk about, basically, what a great year they've had, since he returned to office.
Do you want him to hear him say, there's no inflation, like he did last week, which is not true?
TAYLOR GREENE: It's not true. Inflation, of course, reached its highest point during the Biden administration, and Americans know that. Inflation has steadied around 2.5 percent. So, he can't say there's no inflation.
However, what I would like to see from the President is empathy for Americans. Donald Trump is a billionaire, and he's the President of the United States. When he looks into a camera, and says, Affordability is a hoax, and just totally tries to make nothing out of inflation? He's talking to Americans that are suffering, and have been suffering for many years now, and are having a hard time making ends meet. And so, that's not the right message to tell Americans.
COLLINS: So, what does he need to say tomorrow night, in your view?
TAYLOR GREENE: In my view, I think he needs to actually dive all-in on America First policies.
He needs to keep Air Force One parked in the hangar, and stay away from foreign countries. He needs to stop the revolving door of foreign leaders into his White House. He needs to stop embracing al Qaeda, ISIS terrorists that were once wanted by the United States, who have now become the Syrian president, and stop calling people like me, traitors.
He needs to focus on the campaign policies that he promised the American people. Not his big donors. Not Big Pharma. Not Big Tech. And not foreign leaders. He needs to focus on the people that stood in line, in the freezing rain, the snow, the scorching sun, and all types of weather, and stood on their feet, waiting to go into rallies to see him and to hear what he had to say. Those are the people that matter, not the lobbyists, not the big donors, and not the people he wants to have at White House big parties.
COLLINS: You mentioned the few places where you've broken with him, including on the Epstein files, and having those released. The DOJ deadline is Friday.
And Susie Wiles was actually pretty critical of the Justice Department's handling of this so far. She said, There is no client list, and it sure as hell wasn't on Pam Bondi's desk.
Why do you think the Attorney General said that it was then?
TAYLOR GREENE: I'm not sure. I don't have specifics on that.
But I've listened to the women themselves. And the women themselves, a smaller portion of them, which is -- there's a lot of them. They think there's around 1,000 victims. But a smaller portion of these women say that there is a list of men, rich, powerful men, that they were passed around to. Now, that's a list that they have kept to themselves, frankly, because they're terrified.
These women don't have money to pay attorneys, if they get sued. Every expense comes out of their own pockets. And after death threats that I've received, supporting and keeping my name on the discharge petition, for the first time, I can understand exactly what they've been intimidated by, for so many years.
So, as far as what Susie Wiles and Pam Bondi were talking, I can't speak to specifics on that. But I can speak to what the women have told me.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: Do you believe that the President is not in the Epstein files -- or that he's in them, but he's not in there for doing anything awful, as Susie Wiles put it. Do you think that that's true?
TAYLOR GREENE: The women have said that Donald Trump did nothing wrong, and their attorney told us, in a closed-door meeting, and also told us elsewhere, that Donald Trump was the only one that helped them when they went to trial. So, I'm believing the words that they spoke.
COLLINS: One thing she also said was that neither the Chief of Staff, nor the President, knew that Ghislaine Maxwell was going to be transferred to a lower-security prison, which obviously comes with much more, basically, more comfortable accommodations.
Do you believe that they should reverse that decision then? Because she said that the President was really mad about it.
TAYLOR GREENE: I'll tell you what the women said about Ghislaine Maxwell. They call her a monster. And they were infuriated, they were extremely upset that she was transferred to a much easier situation, and that upset them greatly. So, I think, again, the women should be listened to. And I had also told the President at one point that the women, those women, should be brought into the White House and welcomed in, and they should be supported, instead of some of the people he brings in there.
COLLINS: You mentioned the discharge petition for the release of the Epstein files.
You've also signed on to -- said that you would support the one from Congressman Fitzpatrick, when it comes to the health care subsidies and extending those for two years.
How many discharge petitions, in your last few weeks as the Representative of Georgia, are you willing to sign on to?
TAYLOR GREENE: I've signed a couple just since last week. So, I've signed Anna Paulina Luna's discharge petition on her stock trading bill. I think that should get a vote. I've also signed two discharge petitions. It's Fitzpatrick's discharge petition. And also, Kiggans and Gottheimer, they have one also. So, I've signed those.
COLLINS: Do you plan to sign any more? I mean, what do you envision your last few days as a member of Congress are going to look like? What should Speaker Mike Johnson be prepared for?
TAYLOR GREENE: Well, I have a bill that's coming to the floor tomorrow, that I had to fight, unfortunately, fight leadership, to get scheduled for a vote.
You see, this is the problem that Americans don't realize. Every member of Congress, whether it's Republican or Democrat, has bills that never even get a chance to receive a vote. And I think that's one of the biggest failures in Congress.
So, I had to negotiate on my CR vote, back in September, to get -- to ask for my bill to finally get a vote. And it's passed through committee. It's literally waiting.
And then, I also negotiated my vote on the rule for the NDAA. I voted no, on the rule, holding back the vote on the NDAA, while I negotiated with Steve Scalise and Mike Johnson, and actually scheduling my bill for a vote, which is actually tomorrow.
COLLINS: Do you think in one year from now, Mike Johnson will be the Speaker of the House?
TAYLOR GREENE: One year from now? I think that's hard to say. I think the midterms are going to be very hard for Republicans. I'm one of the people that's willing to admit the truth, and say, I don't see Republicans winning the midterms right now. So, that doesn't bode well for Mike Johnson.
COLLINS: You just got engaged over the weekend.
TAYLOR GREENE: Yes.
COLLINS: Congratulations to you. Best wishes.
TAYLOR GREENE: Thank you.
COLLINS: That's probably something that I imagine, six months ago, you thought the President would be invited to your wedding. Do you still think that that's the case now?
TAYLOR GREENE: Not necessarily, Kaitlan. I don't -- we -- Brian and I aren't like that. We'll probably do something a little bit smaller. And really look forward to it.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, thank you for joining us tonight.
TAYLOR GREENE: Thank you. I appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Up next here on THE SOURCE. Republicans are torn here in Washington tonight, when it comes to health care, insisting they are willing to go to battle with the House Speaker over it. A top Republican senator who has his own plan is going to join me shortly.
Plus, we just have that new enhanced video of the person that authorities say they are searching for, following the mass shooting at Brown University. Four days on the run, there's a question of whether the trail has gone cold tonight.
And also, we're getting the first pictures of Nick Reiner's arrest. The new charges that the District Attorney laid out against him when it comes to the murder of his parents.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, prosecutors have charged Nick Reiner with the murder of his parents, the Hollywood director, Rob Reiner, and the producer, Michele Singer Reiner, as the 32-year-old is now facing two counts of first-degree murder, which carry a maximum sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole or the death penalty.
In a news release tonight, the District Attorney's office said that Reiner allegedly stabbed his own parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He has been alleged -- one of the special allegations is that the murder was committed with a deadly weapon or a knife. As to where and how the weapon will be -- was located or will be located, that will actually be evidence we'll present in court.
Now, prosecuting these cases, involving family members, are some of the most challenging and most heart-wrenching cases that this office faces, because of the intimate and often brutal nature of the crimes involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Authorities say that Nick Reiner was taken without incident near the campus of the University of Southern California, hours after his parents were found dead in their home. A person close to the situation told CNN that he had been living in his parents' residence, but in a separate guest house on the property.
Nick was seen actually having an argument with his father, during a holiday party that had been hosted by Conan O'Brien, on Saturday night.
Back in 2018, he talked about an outburst in that same guest house that he was staying at, after arguing with his parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK REINER, SCREENWRITER, ROB REINER'S SON: I got totally spun out on uppers, I think it was coke and something else, and I was up for days on end, and I started punching out different things in my guest house.
DAVID MANHEIM, HOST, "DOPEY" PODCAST: But weren't you pissed, like weren't your folks like, You got to go, and you were pissed that they were like, You got to go?
REINER: Yes, they told me I had to go.
MANHEIM: And that's why you got upset? So that seems--
REINER: I don't remember the specifics of it.
MANHEIM: You do or you don't?
REINER: I don't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My legal source tonight is CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, and the former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig.
And Elie, obviously, it's tough to listen to comments like that in light of what we heard from the District Attorney today. And one thing that he was arguing, and that he was talking about, was the difficulty in how to prosecute this case, because of the relationship between the victims here, and the accused.
As a former prosecutor, I wonder what you make of what they have on their hands.
ELIE HONIG, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's really an excruciating dilemma here, Kaitlan, for these surviving family members, for the other brother and the sister. I've actually been in situations like this, where you're dealing with an intra-family murder. As a prosecutor, your first duty is to listen to those victims. You don't have to do exactly what they say. But you have a duty to hear them out, to give them a fair consideration.
On the other hand, they're also the closest remaining relatives of the person who's going to be sitting in the defendant's chair, of the person who's looking at potential life behind bars without parole.
So, they are going to be going through a really difficult, challenging time. Prosecutors need to give them room to breathe. Prosecutors need to give them their respect and need to honor their wishes.
COLLINS: What about this special allegation that was mentioned today, when it comes to using a knife, allegedly, and how that factors into this?
HONIG: So, those special allegations, the use of the knife, and the fact that there were two victims here, actually technically, but only technically, raise the max penalty from life without parole to the potential death penalty.
However, important to say, there has been a moratorium, a pause, on the death penalty in California since 2019, and no one has actually been executed, under California state law since 2006. So, there's almost no chance that prosecutors actually seek the death penalty here. But this is something prosecutors do as sort of a placeholder, just as an assurance.
COLLINS: What else stands out to you about what we heard today?
HONIG: Boy. Well, look, the prosecutor had to be really careful in what he said. There's a lot he said he would not answer, and I think that was appropriate, because you have to be careful in a situation like this, right? You have to make sure you're being as transparent as you can, because there's huge public interest here.
But on the other hand, you can't say anything that might violate the defendant's rights. You certainly can't say anything that you're not totally sure of. And again, you have to sort of balance the very difficult situation that the victims are in here. So, it's an extraordinarily difficult case.
One other thing that occurs to me, and people have been asking me, could Nick Reiner raise some sort of insanity defense? Now, important to note, that is very difficult to do, legally. First of all, the defendant has to prove insanity. Second of all, it's not merely enough to show that the person had mental health problems, or even a mental health breakdown, or addiction. You have to show that the person was essentially so far gone that he did not even recognize the nature of what he was doing.
And the third thing is, even if an insanity defense does somehow succeed? That does not mean the person walks free. That means the person gets committed to a California hospital, and remains there, potentially, for a very long time. So, I know that's on a lot of people's minds.
COLLINS: Yes.
HONIG: I don't think that offers, given what we know, I don't think that offers, this defendant, too much hope.
COLLINS: Yes, that's helpful context.
Elie Honig, we'll be following all the updates we get with you very closely. Thanks for joining us tonight.
Up next here though, in Washington, we'll check back in, because there was a contentious closed-door meeting today with House Republicans, pushing back against the House Speaker, Mike Johnson. Millions of Americans are at risk of losing their enhanced health care subsidies, when it comes to insurance, by the end of this month. They're not yet collaborating with Democrats.
And I've got a congressional source, who wants to talk about where his own negotiations stand on this huge matter, next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Moderate Republicans confronted the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, today, during a closed-door meeting, according to our reporting, over his refusal to allow a vote when it comes to the enhanced Obamacare subsidies that are set to expire two weeks from tonight.
Doing nothing, of course, as we have covered here, would more than double the health care for -- their premiums, for about 22 million Americans roughly next year.
Speaker Johnson has been arguing that extending them would only prop up a failing system. And he signaled today that there is not going to be a House vote, this week, on extending those subsidies.
[21:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): There's about a dozen members in the conference that are in these swing districts, who are fighting hard to make sure that they reduce costs for all of their constituents. And many of them did want to vote on this Obamacare, you know, COVID era subsidy that Democrats created.
We looked for a way to try to allow for that pressure release valve, and it just was not to be. We worked on it all the way through the weekend, in fact. And in the end, there was not -- an agreement wasn't made.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: If those subsidies expire at the end of the month, it is projected to hit one state harder than any other. 4.7 million Floridians are enrolled in the Obamacare marketplace plan. That is the highest total actually, in the nation. It means roughly one in every five people in the state there.
Floridians, of course, enrolled in the Obamacare marketplace, as you can see on this graph, more than double since the enhanced subsidies actually went into effect in 2021. Fewer than 2 million people had been enrolled in 2020.
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, 1.5 million Floridians are in danger of losing their health care coverage altogether, if their monthly payments skyrocket next year.
Joining me tonight is Republican senator, Rick Scott of Florida, who has his own health care proposal that is making its way, and as he's working on it, in the Senate. It includes HSA-style accounts that are funded with federal dollars, allows Americans to shop across state lines for insurance, and also gives patients upfront pricing for care.
So thank you, Senator, for being here.
Because I think, one question a lot of people have is, what happens in two weeks from tonight?
SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): Well, first off, people getting health care is really important to me. I grew up in a family, like a lot of people, I lived in public housing. I watched my mom struggle to put food on the table. I had a brother who had a disease. She couldn't get any care in our hometown, so she founded charity hospital four hours away. So, getting people health care is a big deal. And I built the largest hospital company in the country. So, I think it's really important.
Here's what we've got to do. We've got to figure out how to get the delivery cost of the health care down, right? So, if you look at what's going to happen, at the end of the month, we're going to go back -- for the people under the original Obamacare, that was passed, people up to 400 percent, they will go back to the -- was just before the COVID subsidies, the Biden-COVID subsidies, all right? So, what we're talking about is people above that, all right?
So, let's figure out, how do we drive the costs down? So my bill would do that. If you look at, how do we do food stamps? OK? We don't say, Oh, let's give it to the grocery store, and they'll decide what food you get. We give it to you as a consumer, because we want you to get food, then you go shop, and it keeps the price down.
Unfortunately, with health care, the opposite has happened. We give the money to insurance companies. The government sets the rules. Insurance companies sets the rules. And so what's happening is nobody's shopping. So, under my bill, people will shop and drive the price down. That's what I want to get done.
COLLINS: But if you live in Florida, and since 2020 you enrolled, and you've benefited from these enhanced subsidies. And maybe they really like your plan. Everything you've just said, they say, That sounds really good to me. How does that help them, in two weeks, though, when these subsidies expire?
SCOTT: Well, what I'm going to do is mine would start, if we could get it passed, mine would start right now. Any people that get the original Obamacare subsidies, they would get this in an HSA plan, and will help drive down the costs -- it'll drive down the costs for everybody.
Because what's happened is the whole delivery system is consolidated into fewer and fewer players. Money goes directly to insurance companies. There's not an incentive to keep costs down. So what we're going to do is, by bringing the consumer back into it, it'll drive the price down, and we're going to give people -- we'll tell people what things cost. Right now, people have no idea what it cost. I used to own an urgent care company. I had all my prices up like on menu board, you know? So, if you're bringing the consumers--
COLLINS: But the key phrase that you just said is, If we can get it passed.
SCOTT: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, how does that help a family who is staring down premiums that are going to jump, come January?
SCOTT: Well--
COLLINS: I mean, open enrollment is going to end in January. What are they supposed to do?
SCOTT: I'm going to do -- I'm going to do everything I can. I've had a bill, and August Pfluger in the House, who runs the Republican Study Committee there, he sponsors it also. So, we're going to continue to work on it.
But, look, this didn't cause -- wasn't caused by Republicans. Obamacare was created -- it was complete lie. Remember, Obama said, You wouldn't lose your doc? You did. You wouldn't lose your plan? You did. You're going to save $2,500 a family? The opposite happened.
COLLINS: Well, what do you say to people who say, Republicans have had 15 years to change that, and they haven't done so?
SCOTT: Well, I mean, the Democrats in the last four years, I mean, they're the ones who created these subsidies. Instead of fixing it, they created these extra subsidies to mask the cost. Why didn't they fix it?
I mean, if you look at it, Obamacare, it's failed. OK? I've been -- I've been talking about fixing health care since I got up here. What I appreciate now is there's at least some conversation. Will we get it fixed? I hope so.
COLLINS: But do you think conversation makes people -- I mean, those numbers in Florida are stunning. SCOTT: I mean--
COLLINS: 4.7 million people.
And so, you make the argument, saying, Democrats created this, and that they set this date. But that's the same argument I heard from Republicans of why they needed to pass the one big, beautiful bill, so that Republican -- so Americans didn't face a tax increase when the Trump tax cuts expired.
[21:40:00]
Why don't -- why not use that same logic here, and extend the subsidies, while your plan, or whatever you guys are working on, makes its way through the Senate?
SCOTT: Well, I've been talking about fixing health care since, you know, look, I've -- I told people what would happen when Obamacare passed. OK? I was very clear. I ran ads to say exactly what's going to happen. I've been fighting to fix it since when I was governor, and in the time I've been up here, so I've been trying to do this the whole time. So maybe--
COLLINS: But what is that--
SCOTT: I agree with you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: If someone voted for you, how should they feel, I guess?
SCOTT: I think you--
COLLINS: If they're saying--
SCOTT: They should be frustrated.
COLLINS: --you're running on it. We want to pass it. We want to fix this. But it's not fixed.
SCOTT: They should be frustrated, right? They should -- you should be frustrated that you don't know what things cost. You should be frustrated that you can't buy across state lines. You should be frustrated if you can't buy a short-term plan. You should be frustrated that the deductibles have gone up and copayments have gone up.
You should expect everybody up here to be all hands on deck to drive the costs of health care down. Don't just say, Oh, the government is going to mask the costs for people and we'll just kick the can down the road. You should -- we actually should have a real fix.
I agree with you. We ought -- we need to fix this.
COLLINS: So, what do you say if someone from Florida calls your office, and they're enrolled in these enhanced subsidies, and they lose them in two weeks from now? SCOTT: I'm going to -- I'm going to do everything I can, and I've been doing everything I can, to get it fixed. I would call every other -- every other member of House and Senate to say, That's what you expect.
COLLINS: I think one thing that we have heard from people, and I was reading in the Miami Herald today, some Floridians and constituents of yours had written in, and said, Yes, I understand that Democrats did this. But Republicans control Congress and the White House right now. And we voted for you, because Republicans have been saying that they would address this.
SCOTT: Yes, I agreed. Unfortunately, in the Senate, as you know, take 60 votes, right? Democrats have said -- I mean, they don't want to fix it. I've been trying to work with them to get it done. So, I agree with them.
Health -- number one, health care is in a crisis. Costs are up, right? You can't get a doctor's appointment. All the paperwork is confusing. So, we have to try something new, and that's what I've been trying to do. But it takes -- it takes 60 people in the Senate to want to do it, and it takes a majority in the House.
COLLINS: Who do you think voters should hold responsible for that?
SCOTT: Everybody. Now, you know, the Democrats created it, right? But--
COLLINS: But Republicans are in control--
SCOTT: Yes.
COLLINS: --now.
SCOTT: Well, it still takes 60 votes in the Senate, unfortunately.
COLLINS: Why not just -- I think one logic, or one kind of line of thinking is just pass an extension of the subsidies, so people don't see this huge spike, and then y'all work it out in the one-year period, or two-year period, three-year period. If that ends up coming through from a discharge petition from the House, would you vote yes on that?
SCOTT: Well, I'll see what -- I'll see what it does. But I want to fix it.
Here's the other thing. Money shouldn't go directly to insurance companies. We've got 4 million to 6 million people that don't even know they have insurance under these COVID subsidies. 4 million to 6 million people. It's just complete fraud. All you had to do is to sign up. You could sign somebody else up, you know, their name, their birth date and their address.
COLLINS: Yes.
SCOTT: 4 million to 6 million people.
COLLINS: We keep hearing--
SCOTT: We got to fix this stuff.
COLLINS: And we've heard -- that's what Brian Fitzpatrick, over in the House, is trying to do with his discharge petition on the subsidies.
We keep hearing about the HSA-style accounts. But that doesn't equate to comprehensive health care coverage for a lot of families. I mean, what would you say to someone--
SCOTT: Well, Obamacare, $10,000 deductibles, and you're not going to get it. It wouldn't help my --it wouldn't help my family. It wouldn't help my little brother, right? So, what we've -- what we've done, what in it -- you know this -- what Obamacare has done is cause everything to skyrocket. Everything to skyrocket.
So, let's go back and think, how do we redo this? OK? We don't do it by saying, Oh, let's just kick the can down the road. Let's actually fix it. Why don't we do food stamps this way? Because we know it doesn't work. Why would we keep doing the exact same thing, and say, Oh, well, let's just keep doing it a little bit longer. Let's fix it.
COLLINS: Vice President JD Vance said he wants Congress to step up and send the White House, a health care plan.
Do you think the President should come out and make clear whose plan, whether it's yours, Senator Cassidy, any of these plans that have been floated about? Do you think the White House needs to make clear who they're behind?
SCOTT: Well, the President's been clear. The President's been clear. Money should not go to insurance companies. OK? It should go into HSA accounts, where people can spend the money.
COLLINS: But with HSA accounts, it still does go to health insurance companies or banks, right?
SCOTT: No, we could--
COLLINS: I mean, it will go to one of those institutions.
SCOTT: Like we -- we had an individual testify the other day. He runs a -- he runs a hospital in Oklahoma City. His costs, pricing to you as a consumer is way less than Medicare, way less than Medicaid, right? There's what -- if you were a consumer, like you could -- when you fly, you'll check to see what the prices are. You have no idea.
COLLINS: Yes.
SCOTT: You have no information.
COLLINS: Well, and obviously that's -- it's still tough for people to decide then, because they may have to decide based on proximity or who their doctor is.
Can I ask you before you go? Because the President just posted tonight about the huge U.S. military buildup in the Caribbean, saying that he wants a complete blockade of all sanctioned oil tankers going in and out of Venezuela.
This comes after his Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles, who ran your 2010 campaign, you know her well--
SCOTT: Yes, she did a great job.
COLLINS: --was on the record in Vanity Fair--
SCOTT: We won.
COLLINS: You did win.
Was on the record, in Vanity Fair, saying, despite what the arguments has been about drug boats, she said, basically is a pretext for regime change in Venezuela. She said he wants to keep blowing up boats until Maduro cries uncle.
Do you think that's America First?
[21:45:00]
SCOTT: Well, I didn't see -- I didn't see what she said.
And, first off, anything in Vanity Fair, they also -- they also did a puff piece on a guy that's asking for me to be killed, an antisemite. So, I don't believe anything they write.
COLLINS: Well, that shouldn't happen.
SCOTT: Susie Wiles--
COLLINS: But she is on the record.
SCOTT: OK. Susie--
COLLINS: She didn't dispute the quotes.
SCOTT: Susie Wiles is a competent, smart, hardworking individual, and she's busting her butt for the President.
Now, with regard to Maduro, right? He is not -- it's not regime change. He's not the President of Venezuela. He stole the last election. He lost. It was proven, he lost the last election. He's an indicted drug trafficker. He needs to be in prison in the United States.
And what the President is doing is he's doing exactly what he should be doing. Stopping these drugs from killing my kids and my grandkids.
COLLINS: Do you disagree with his pardon of the former Honduran leader--
SCOTT: I didn't know -- I don't know--
COLLINS: --who was also indicted and convicted?
SCOTT: Yes, I didn't ever -- I never met the guy, and I don't know anything about it, and I don't know--
COLLINS: But do you approve of that pardon?
SCOTT: I don't know much about it. No. The President gets the right to make those decisions.
COLLINS: OK.
Senator Rick Scott, thank you for joining us tonight.
SCOTT: Nice seeing you.
COLLINS: Really appreciate it.
Up next here on THE SOURCE. Officials have just released new photos and a video of the person that they say is a person of interest, when it comes to that deadly shooting at Brown University. That manhunt still under way. We'll have the latest for you, right after this.
[21:50:00]
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COLLINS: Tonight, authorities are asking the public to help identify this person of interest, as the manhunt for the Brown University shooter is now in its fourth day.
The Police in Providence, Rhode Island, released this new collection of videos today, and they're asking people for help, and to pay close attention to the person's body movements, their posture, their gait, anything else that might stand out or seem familiar to someone who's watching this. Police say they believe the person is about five-foot- eight and has a stocky build, and was seen casing the area near the university, hours before that shooting happened, over the weekend.
Two students were killed in that attack. Nine others were injured. And some people in the community are scared and frustrated by how long it's taking investigators to gather evidence.
I want to bring in my law enforcement source, who is the former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe.
And just first off, when you see these images, we see them as regular people, I think, and maybe say, OK, well, it's really hard to identify that person in that video.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY FBI DIRECTOR: Sure.
COLLINS: It's not -- it's not that clear.
What do you see in that video, when you look at it? MCCABE: When an investigator looks at that video, you are looking for very specific attributes, physical attributes, things that you can describe well in words, that will prompt the memories of not you and I, but people who actually know that person, or who may have encountered that person. And if you ask them a general question, Did you see anyone strange that day, lingering in front of the building? They will reflexively say, No, I don't think so.
But if you show them this photograph, and you point out the way this person walks? The way they typically have both hands in their pockets, or sometimes only their right hand in their pocket? The way that the mask fits on the face? The color, the different colors of the jacket, which we now know, unlike the first video, are slightly different in tone? Like, those are the kind of things that will jar a person's memory and cause them to maybe provide information that's essential.
COLLINS: Well, I think -- and also, listening to the updates today, some people might say, how can you -- how can you carry out a shooting like this and just walk away? And it's on a campus, there's cameras everywhere.
One thing that stood out to me earlier was they were saying it's actually difficult, because of the area of where this building was, that the individual, that the shooter, went inside, to actually be able to locate them.
MCCABE: It's a remarkable situation. It's always hard, when you're looking for one person whose identity you don't know. But in this case, seeing that he's in the area hours before, four, maybe even five hours before the shooting, and he seems to be wandering around. He seems to be familiar with the area, but, like, not sure what he's looking for, sort of thing.
So, I think it causes -- it's got to cause you to question whether or not that target, that place where the shooting took place, was actually an intended, planned-upon target in advance? Or was it something that emerged to him over the course of these hours that he spent looking for a place to do what he was going to do?
COLLINS: And obviously, I mean, as now we're about to be in day five of this manhunt, there's been a lot of questions for the authorities, who are briefing officials earlier, or briefing reporters earlier, in the state, local officials. Also, on the FBI.
The FBI director here, he recently sat for an interview. That's his girlfriend.
That's Katie Miller, who is Stephen Miller's wife, former administration official herself.
He did this podcast.
She said, it was taped before the shooting happened, prior to Sunday. It's obviously now airing this week. And I've seen a lot of people, even people, who are allies of this administration, being critical of, of just the optics of having the FBI director sit down for an interview like this.
Is this typical, from your standpoint?
MCCABE: Absolutely atypical. There's never been, in my experience, an FBI director who's engaged in this sort of a personal, revealing interview, in the middle of their time doing that work.
It's also a particularly bad decision, in light of all the criticism he's taken recently about his personal life, about his personal travel, about his relationship. Would probably be a good time to tone that down.
[21:55:00]
But right now, in the middle of this massive crisis that his people are working? You're forcing them, expecting them to work 24 hours a day, for days and days on end, to be appearing like this, talking about your personal life is, it's really a dispiriting message to the troops.
COLLINS: Andrew McCabe, thank you for joining us tonight.
MCCABE: Sure.
COLLINS: Really appreciate it, as always.
Up next. The President says he will be making a major address to the nation, tomorrow night. We'll share the details we have, of what that could look like, right after this.
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[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Today, President Trump said that he will deliver a live address to the nation, tomorrow night, from the White House, at 09:00 p.m. Eastern. As the press secretary says, it will cover his, quote, Historic accomplishments over the last year, since returning to office.
You can watch that address live, right here on THE SOURCE, tomorrow night. We're going to have it followed by our special coverage and political analysis here.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts now.
