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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Claims Killing Of Iran Protesters Has "Stopped"; Trump: Anything Less Than U.S. Control Of Greenland "Unacceptable"; DOJ Wants Interviews With Dems Over "Illegal Orders" Video. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 14, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --seeing people from all walks of life and faiths come together has been deeply moving. There's something profoundly powerful in the simplicity of their act. Monks walking for peace. Instead of worrying about the future, maybe the real question is, what are your plans? Because peace only happens when each of us decides to play our part.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: The monks hope to arrive in Washington, February 12th, and have a gathering to mark the end of their 2,300-mile pilgrimage.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: President Trump claims the killings in Iran are over. But here's what he said when I asked him, who told him that, and whether or not he trusts them.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
The people of Iran have been standing up defiantly in the face of a ruthless crackdown, knowing that when they leave their homes to join a protest for their freedom, they're facing the possibility of death.
And yet, we've seen scenes like this. They are protesting anyway. With thousands of Iranians have been killed, many more arrested or left maimed by the brute force of an oppressive regime. And U.S. officials have said that this could be the most significant moment for Iran since the 1979 revolution.
That's why what President Trump said today about Iran was so remarkable, given he's been threatening military action and vowing that United States' help is on the way for days, before telling us this, inside the Oval Office, this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We've been told that the killing in Iran is stopping -- it's stopped -- it's stopping, and there's no plan for executions, or an execution, or executions. So I've been told that on good authority. We'll find out about it. I'm sure if happens, we'll all be very upset, including you, we'll be very upset.
But that's just gotten to me, some information, that the killing has stopped, that the executions have stopped. They're not going to have an execution, which a lot of people were talking about for the last couple of days. Today was going to be the day of execution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Given that videos from inside Iran have shown body bags lining the streets, with morgues overflowing. A key question in response to that was, who exactly had told the President that these killings had stopped?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Mr. President, on Iran, you said that the killing has stopped. Who told you that the killings have stopped there? And if it's the Iranian regime--
TRUMP: We have been -- we have been informed by very important sources on the other side, and they've said the killing has stopped and the executions won't take place. There was supposed to be a lot of executions today, and that the executions won't take place. And we're going to find out. I mean, I'll find out after this. You'll find out. But we've been told on good authority, and I hope it's true. Who knows, right? Who knows? Crazy world.
COLLINS: We've seen the body bags. So how do you trust them?
TRUMP: You've seen that over the last few days, and they said people were shooting at them with guns, and they were shooting back. And you know, it's one of those things. But they told me that there'll be no executions, and so I hope that's true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President never disclosed who he was talking about, who had relayed that information to him.
We do know from a family member, and a human rights organization, that the execution of one Iranian protestor did not go ahead as scheduled today. This person's story had gone viral in recent days. Their family member told CNN though, they do not believe that means the execution is canceled.
Remember, 12 days ago though, the President had pledged this, saying, If Iran shoots and violently kills peaceful protesters, which is their custom, the United States of America will come to their rescue. We are locked and loaded and ready to go, the President said. Well, we know from our reporting, and from the scenes that we have been able to see inside Iran, during this widespread internet blackout, there's still a lot of unknowns in this moment. We do know that thousands of people have been killed.
And as forces have been moved away from America's largest military base in the Middle East for their protection, this is what the President has been saying for days now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And again, I tell the Iranian leaders, you better not start shooting, because we'll start shooting too.
If they start killing people like they have in the past, I think they're going to get hit very hard by the United States.
So Iran said that the last time, they better behave.
When they start killing thousands of people. And now you're telling me about hanging. We'll see how that works out for them. It's not going to work out good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And just yesterday, the President posted in all-caps, encouraging the protests to keep going, and saying, quote, "HELP IS ON ITS WAY." Something he followed up with these words.
[21:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: To all Iranian patriots, keep protesting, take over your institutions if possible, and save the name of the killers and the abusers that are abusing you.
But I say, save their names, because they'll pay a very big price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was yesterday.
This was today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: No, we're going to watch and see what the process is. But we were given a very good, very good statement by people that are aware of what's going on
REPORTER: Mr. President--
(CROSSTALK)
REPORTER: Military actions that's still-- TRUMP: And when they say no executions. Everyone is talking about a lot of executions were taking place today. We were just told no executions, I hope that's true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, whether or not the President is looking for an off-ramp for his threats that he made, if Iran did kill peaceful protesters, or if he's attempting a head fake in the way that he did the last time the United States struck Iran last summer. All of that remains to be seen.
As we sort that out, joining me tonight, right off the bat here is CNN Political Analyst, and New York Times White House correspondent, Maggie Haberman, who we are happy to say is back from book leave.
Maggie, obviously, it's been a moment since we've had you on the show.
And just given what's been playing out today alone, I wonder what stood out to you from what we heard from the President, given he came out and said, surprisingly, that he was told Iran has stopped the killings.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "CONFIDENCE MAN": Look, there were a lot of things that stood out, Kaitlan, and you ably tried to press for exactly who was telling him this information. I understand there are things the government can't say. Certainly, one hopes that the killing has stopped. But it wasn't entirely clear to me whether he meant the broad killings of protesters or the execution that had been planned. And then he said, a lot of executions.
And it is hard to believe that Iran has indeed agreed to stop everything. Given all of what the scenes that we have seen. I think the President is trying to de-escalate, and I think the President has not -- my reporting is the President has not entirely decided what he wants to do here, because the situation is volatile, and it could trigger unintended consequences in the region, in an already very unstable region.
This is a massive country with tens of millions of people. This is not, say, going into Venezuela and coming out very quickly. So, we will see. But we're certainly not going to know by the end of tonight.
COLLINS: Yes, and it seemed notable that at one point he was saying -- he seemed to be saying the protesters were shooting back at the Iranian regime. Obviously, it is the Iranian regime that has been carrying out--
HABERMAN: Right.
COLLINS: --this brutal crackdown against them.
HABERMAN: Right.
COLLINS: One thing that the President has said before, Maggie, is he's wary of having a red-line moment like Obama did, where he threatened to take action in Syria if chemical weapons were used on the Syrian people. And then that happened, and no action was taken.
I wonder if you think that's playing into all of this.
HABERMAN: I do think that is part of it. As you know, President Trump tends to sort of make vague statements about what his intentions are, and what he would say, so that gives him maximum room to negotiate and maneuver. And that generally has been true.
In terms of the Obama, Syria red line. President Trump is far from the only person who has criticized that moment, and said that that was detrimental in terms of people feeling afraid of what the U.S. might do in retaliation. So, I do think he does not want to commit too hard. I think he is being very measured, for him and what he's saying.
It is important what you noted, though, about what he said about the protesters. They said they were shooting at them, and so they shot back. That is the regime's line. And so that was also surprising to hear.
But I don't think that he wants to commit to something that he is not fully engaged with, despite the fact that we know he has his own feelings about Iran. They have been looking to harm President Trump and his aides for quite some time.
COLLINS: Yes, they've plotted to assassinate him. They obviously lie. They oppress their people, as we know.
HABERMAN: Sure.
COLLINS: And I think, Maggie, just given that playing out. What happened -- you mentioned Venezuela. His threats against Greenland, and saying that, It has to be the United States' and nothing else is acceptable. What do you make of how he's viewing foreign policy overall these last few days?
HABERMAN: Look, I think he's incredibly emboldened, Kaitlan.
And the thing about President Trump is, and this is true in business, and this is true, as a real estate developer, and when he was a reality television star, and President twice now, he is always going to push things as far as he can, unless somebody stops him. And if he thinks he can, and there's something that he's interested in, and so he's taking a maximum push now.
It is very scary to the Danes, and it is scary to Greenlanders. Even if some like the idea of becoming part of America, that is clearly not the majority opinion by any stretch based on public polling.
So, what I make of it is he wants it, and he has set his sights on it, and that is generally the theme of this term. I don't think it's more complicated than that.
[21:10:00] COLLINS: It does seem to be a theme so much more so though, and as we close in on this one-year anniversary of him being back in office, way more than it was his first term.
HABERMAN: No -- he had never been in government before. I mean, there -- you know, he won the presidency having never so much as won a city council race, or run a city council race, or run a real previous presidential race. He had made feints and starts at it before.
But he did not know how Washington worked. He did not know where the lines were. He was very consumed by the investigation into possible ties between his campaign and Russians, and that ate up the first two years.
And by the time he felt like he was finally getting the government he wanted, at the beginning of 2020, that was when COVID struck. So that is, you know, I think you would have seen much more of this, certainly in 2020, and perhaps even into a 2021, had he won in 2020. But he's also had -- he's coming back to a very different environment, where institutions have, many of them, bent to him.
COLLINS: Yes.
Maggie Haberman, great to have you here tonight. Thank you for joining.
HABERMAN: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Also here with me tonight in Washington, a Democrat who sits on both the Senate Armed Services Committee and the Foreign Relations Committee as well. Virginia senator, Tim Kaine.
And thank you, Senator.
Because, I do think one question is, who is telling the President this. And if it's the Iranian regime who is claiming they have stopped killing people, killing protesters, do you think the President should take them at their word?
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): No, he shouldn't take them at their word.
But I have a little bit of a different take on the President than Maggie just described, and I have huge respect for her. She says he's figuring out the levers in Washington.
Here's my take. He is bored and concerned about his efforts at home. The economy is suffering. People are paying more for health care and energy and child care and groceries and housing. So, why not focus on external adventurism? Let's talk about Venezuela. Let's talk about Greenland and Denmark. Let's talk about Iran, or Nigeria, or Cuba, or Colombia, or Mexico.
This foreign adventurism is a bored president, and frankly, a somewhat frightened president, who is really worried about the economic conditions at home, trying to change the subject. COLLINS: So, you think because of his own domestic issues, whether that be the economy or, what we've been covering so closely, playing out with ICE in Minneapolis, you think that is what's playing into what's happening with Trump abroad?
KAINE: I do.
And let's use Iran as an example. Why are the Iranian people protesting so heavily against this government? It's because the Iranian government, dictators, have focused for years on adventurism in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Gaza, Morocco, trying to destabilize the government in Morocco, rather than meeting the needs of their own population. And after years and years of this, the Iranian public is saying, What the hell are you guys doing? Focus on us.
President Trump is focusing on all of these saber-rattling adventures and uses of military force here, there and everywhere. Meanwhile, Americans are paying more for health care, child care, energy, groceries, housing, everything, and he is not meeting their needs.
And he is going to keep trying to distract. Vladimir Putin tries to distract the Russians from their internal woes by invading Ukraine. Iran is doing it from going after everybody rather than meeting the needs of their populace. Trump is trying to do his distraction campaign, but I don't think Virginians and, I know, Americans, are not distracted from his ignorance, ignoring what they're asking him to do, what he promised to do as a candidate.
COLLINS: Well, and Senator, obviously, Iran has been something that the President was hyper-focused on. I mean, this was a big issue of his, in his first term. He struck them over this summer with their nuclear facilities.
You were against military action here in this situation. You said recently you didn't think that was a good idea, and that it would be a mistake.
KAINE: Yes.
COLLINS: But given he has -- he told protesters that the United States would come to their help, to their aid, that help was on the way. I mean, what do you think the message is to them tonight?
KAINE: Well, look, the United States deposed the democratically- elected Prime Minister of Iran back in the 1950s, and that memory is very, very long.
[21:15:00]
And here's what the U.S. intervention in Iran or Venezuela or other nations do. There are dictators, horrible people, the Iranian mullahs, and Maduro in Venezuela, they want to blame their mismanagement and their problems on the United States intervening in their politics and economies. That's what they want to do.
The public says, Wait a minute. It's you that's mismanaging. You have screwed up our country. You've turned us from an energetic, innovative country, and Venezuela was, and Iran was, into like a basket case.
And the opposition grows because of the leadership's failures. But when the U.S. intervenes, the leadership says, We're only suffering because of U.S. intervention.
COLLINS: Yes.
KAINE: And they change the subject from their own failures to the U.S. intervention.
Don't give the Iranian leaders the ability to shift the blame. Don't give Venezuelan dictators the ability to shift the blame.
COLLINS: Well, and Senator, can I ask you on Venezuela? Because last week, there were five Republicans who had voted to advance something you put forward, which was an effort that would basically curb the President's war powers in Venezuela.
Today, we saw something very different happen, where two of those Republicans who had supported it withdrew their support. That was Josh Hawley and Todd Young. Which meant that your resolution was ultimately blocked.
Why do you think they changed their support? They -- I mean, obviously they had conversations with the White House and a big pressure campaign. But what is your read on that?
KAINE: Well, here's what I think. But you should ask them. After we successfully repudiated the unauthorized war actions of President Trump, last week, he canceled a second invasion of Venezuela within 12 hours, and then he gave a bunch of commitments to senators about, OK, we'll finally have public hearings on this, which we haven't done, and we'll commit no boots on the ground in Venezuela without a formal congressional authorization, which they hadn't done.
The White House was so focused on not allowing a public debate about this military adventurism in Venezuela that they made commitments to restrain which they weren't willing to do until we filed our resolution. It ended up -- yes, two Republicans backed off with these commitments, and they brought JD Vance, the Vice President in.
COLLINS: Yes.
KAINE: In the past, he had been a kind of an anti-military- intervention guy, an isolationist. Now he's with the forever unauthorized war crowd.
But we got commitments out of the administration that we wouldn't have gotten without filing war powers resolutions. We'll monitor the commitments, but we're going to file a lot more war powers resolutions.
COLLINS: Yes, and I'm sure the Vice President would dispute your characterization. But Senator Tim Kaine, thank you for joining us tonight.
KAINE: Absolutely.
COLLINS: And up next. The Justice Department is now wanting interviews with some of those Democrats that you saw who were telling the members of the military not to follow illegal orders. One of them is going to join me here on set.
Plus, Americans and what they're feeling about how ICE is operating after that deadly shooting in Minnesota. There are some eye-opening numbers here that you'll see tonight.
And also, we talked about Greenland. There is a growing confrontation to the White House. Europe seems to be more concerned than ever, and the President is only digging in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We need Greenland for national security, so we're going to see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the leaders from Denmark and Greenland say that there is still a fundamental disagreement with the White House, amid President Trump's quest to take control of Greenland. The pair met with Vice President, JD Vance, and Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, at the White House today, as CNN cameras captured them arriving and leaving. They left about an hour and a half after that meeting though, with no minds changed.
And the President had set the table for that meeting, after he posted this shortly beforehand, quote, "NATO becomes far more formidable and effective with Greenland in the hands of the UNITED STATES." The President said, "Anything less than that is unacceptable."
And in a sign that Europe is taking his threat seriously tonight, Denmark says it's increasing its military presence in Greenland, and several major NATO allies in addition to Denmark (ph), Sweden, Norway, Germany, France say they are also sending troops to Greenland this week.
Joining me tonight is Republican congressman, Mike Lawler of New York, who sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
And I know, Congressman, you've talked about the strategic value that you see in Greenland. But do you see it the way the President does, that anything less than U.S. control of Greenland is unacceptable?
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): No. I think Greenland, obviously, with the Danes, are important allies, as well as obviously our NATO allies. I think the security interests in the Arctic region are critical, especially with respect to Russia and China. And as I've said repeatedly, discussions around the potential either of a sale or expanded U.S. military presence in agreement is fine. But any use of military force, I am adamantly opposed to. I've said that repeatedly. And certainly, that's not the way we should be conducting these negotiations and discussions.
COLLINS: And do your constituents view this as a priority for the President?
[21:25:00]
LAWLER: Well, I think when you look at the Western Hemisphere, for decades frankly, Republicans and Democrats have failed to recognize the strategic importance of our own hemisphere. We've focused on the Middle East. We've focused on Asia, and the Pacific, and we have focused heavily on Europe. There are real-world consequences to inaction and inactivity in our hemisphere. We've seen that in Central and South America in particular.
But just look at, for instance, the illicit oil trade that we have seen come from Iran to Venezuela, going up into the Arctic, to go to Russia. There are real reasons to have a stronger military presence in the Arctic, and I think that can be accomplished through negotiation.
I think Greenland and Denmark would probably be open to expanded U.S. military presence--
COLLINS: Yes.
LAWLER: --as well as cooperation on rare-earth minerals. So, I think there's a way to get there without the U.S. seizing control of Greenmark--
COLLINS: Yes.
LAWLER: Greenland.
COLLINS: I mean, there's a military -- there's an agreement in place right now that they could -- the United States could increase its military presence--
LAWLER: We've been there for years.
COLLINS: --right now, if it wanted to.
LAWLER: Correct.
COLLINS: Can I ask you, because when it comes to this investigation that we found out about, on Sunday night, in kind of blockbuster fashion, of the Fed Chair, Jay Powell. You told Politico that you believe he was late in addressing inflation under President Biden. You said he was woefully slow in lowering interest rates over the past year. But you added that the independence of the Federal Reserve is paramount, and you oppose any effort to pressure them into action.
Do you think Jay Powell would be under investigation tonight if he had cut the interest rates like the President demanded?
LAWLER: Probably not. I think--
COLLINS: That's a crazy thing.
LAWLER: I think the--
COLLINS: Don't you think?
LAWLER: --the reality of the situation is Jay Powell's tenure is quickly coming to an end. His term is going to be up.
I think we need the Fed to focus on its job. And the number one job, in my estimation, is reducing interest rates. We need to actually focus our effort on growing the economy. I think a lot of this is a distraction and wasted time and effort.
I think Chairman Powell, as I said in my statement, was slow to address inflation, and he has been slow to deal with lowering interest rates. But at the end of the day, that's a difference of opinion with respect to monetary policy. The Fed should be independent. It should not be under pressure by exterior forces.
And I think, ultimately, the situation related to his testimony. If that's the standard by which people are going to be investigated? There's going to be a lot of people being investigated based on their testimony before Congress.
COLLINS: When you say distraction, and waste of time and effort, are you -- is that attributed to the U.S. D.C. attorney here in the nation's capital, Jeanine Pirro?
LAWLER: Look, this investigation, wherever it stemmed from, and whatever the facts of the investigation are--
COLLINS: Well she's leading it.
LAWLER: --obviously, we're going to learn more. But my fundamental view is that if the basis by which we are investigating someone is on testimony before Congress, there's a lot of people that are going to be investigated.
COLLINS: But isn't the basis really--
LAWLER: And I just don't fundamentally believe that is the best use of time and resources right now.
COLLINS: But isn't the basis really that he's not cutting interest rates? I mean.
LAWLER: Well, the President has been very clear in his frustrations about the failure to cut the interest rates.
When you look at prior to the election, Jay Powell cut interest rates just before the November 2024 elections. And I had questioned him, under oath, about that, and whether or not he was going to cut interest rates right before the election. And he ultimately did.
COLLINS: But wouldn't it have been more political if he hadn't cut them before the election, and thought that they should be cut?
LAWLER: Well, but if the argument--
COLLINS: I mean, Trump would have argued the opposite--
(CROSSTALK)
LAWLER: --if the argument before the election, was that inflation is coming down and we can now cut interest rates, which is precisely what he did? I don't understand how you could possibly say with inflation, where it is today, that we shouldn't be cutting interest rates. So, I think it was very clear--
COLLINS: Inflation is closer (ph) where it was then.
LAWLER: It was very clear -- no, it wasn't. It's very clear--
COLLINS: What was it when Trump -- what was it when Trump took office?
LAWLER: It was very clear when he cut those interest rates, they were still on their way down from where they were under Biden. The fact is--
COLLINS: Sure. But where was inflation when the President took office?
LAWLER: It was a little above 3. But the fact is--
COLLINS: And it's close to that today.
LAWLER: But the fact is if -- but if you were OK cutting interest rates before the election, then why wouldn't you be OK cutting interest rates now? The fact is, he has failed to do that. His term is going to be expiring. And we should let it expire and move on.
COLLINS: Congressman Mike Lawler, thank you for joining tonight.
LAWLER: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next. I should note, tonight, we are getting breaking news out of Minneapolis that we're confirming here at CNN, reports of a shooting involving federal agents. Right now, these are live images of a chaotic scene that is playing out. Law enforcement and demonstrators. We're going to take you live to the ground in Minneapolis, right after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Breaking news right now in Minneapolis. This is the scene that is playing out on the ground, where you can see a large police presence, federal presence, that is happening, amid reports tonight of a shooting that involved federal agents. [21:35:00]
Here's what we know so far, and we're still learning more details right now. City officials tell CNN that they are working to confirm what they know. As we've reached out to police for more information about what has exactly led to the scene that is playing out. We'll bring you those details and confirmations as soon as we have them.
We did hear from the Governor, just in the last hour. Tim Walz slammed the Trump administration for this ongoing ICE operation that we've seen playing out in his state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): 2,000 to 3,000 armed agents of the federal government have been deployed to Minnesota. Armed, masked, undertrained ICE agents are going door to door, ordering people to point out where their neighbors of color live.
They're pulling over people indiscriminately, including U.S. citizens, and demanding to see their papers. And at grocery stores, at bus stops, even at our schools, they're breaking windows, dragging pregnant women down the street, just plain, grabbing Minnesotans and shoving them into unmarked vans, kidnapping innocent people with no warning and no due process.
Let's be very, very clear. This, long ago, stopped being a matter of immigration enforcement. Instead, it's a campaign of organized brutality against the people of Minnesota by our own federal government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Those comments from the Governor today, as federal agents have been seen using aggressive tactics, in recent days, against residents and protesters, as fallout has continued after the shooting death by an ICE agent of Renee Good, last week.
CNN's Chief Data Analyst, Harry Enten, is here.
Because Harry, I do think there are some really interesting numbers that are coming out, in terms of what we're seeing in the aftermath of this, of how Americans are feeling about what they're watching.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, I think there really are, Kaitlan.
And I should just start off by saying that Americans, at this point, do not like ICE, and that is very different from what we saw during Trump's first term.
Just take a look here. ICE's net approval rating. In Trump's first term, ICE, kind of lukewarm. You had them right there at a net approval rating of zero points. Look at where we are today. We're talking about a negative 17-point approval rating. That is a 17-point drop from where we were during Trump's first term. Among Independents, the number is even lower in terms of the net approval rating.
And why is it that ICE is so unpopular at this point? Well, take a look at our new CNN/SSRS poll, and I think this sort of gives the game away.
ICE enforcement is making U.S. cities less safe. Look at this. 51 percent. 51 percent of Americans say that ICE enforcement is, in cities, is making those cities less safe. That includes 59 percent of Americans who live in cities, compared to just 31 percent who say that in fact, ICE enforcement is making U.S. cities more safe. So, what we see here is Trump and ICE losing this argument over ICE going into cities, making them more safe.
Now, of course, the ICE discussion is part of a larger argument, right, a larger discussion about immigration enforcement in this country.
And when it comes to Donald Trump. Remember, he's run on immigration in all three of his presidential bids. It's a big reason why he got elected the first time around. Won that Republican nomination. It was a strength for him earlier on during his second term.
Look at this. His net approval rating, according to our CNN polling, was at plus-three points, on the positive side of the ledger. But look at where it is now. It is way underwater at 16 points on the negative side of the equation. That is a 19-point drop in less than a year's time.
Now, what is one of the big reasons why Donald Trump's net approval rating on immigration has gone down, Kaitlan? Well, it simply comes down to this. Trump's gone too far in deporting undocumented immigrants. Look at this. Back in February of 2025, it was 45 percent. Now, it's a majority of Americans, 52 percent, and that includes, Kaitlan Collins, 56 percent of Independents.
The bottom line is this. ICE and Trump are losing the argument when it comes to the American people. They don't like this immigration enforcement, and it is costing Trump political points at this time, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Harry Enten, appreciate you bringing us those numbers.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COLLINS: I've also got my political sources here tonight, including Karen Finney and David Urban.
And David, we had just been talking about this. Immigration has historically been such a strong area for the President.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Yes.
COLLINS: Especially with what he did with the southern border after he came into office, about a year ago, this time. What do you make of those numbers, and what they like-- URBAN: Yes.
COLLINS: --as we're watching this scene that's playing out, I should note, in Minneapolis tonight, and still trying to learn more about what's going on.
URBAN: Listen, if I was working in the White House, I'd take that second slide that Harry had, the net, you know, that swing from March of 2025, the President's number till today, on immigration, and show him exactly how popular this is, and what this is going to mean in the midterms.
When the President went and addressed the House, talked to the House Republicans, a few weeks ago, he said, Listen, guys, if we lose, I'm going to be impeached.
And I'd give him that sheet and say, This is your one-way ticket to impeachment, Mr. President. You better figure this out pretty quickly.
[21:40:00]
Everybody elected this guy to close the border, to go after bad hombres, right? Nobody wanted to see what they're seeing playing on, on their televisions, day in and day out, especially right now in Minnesota. And so, I think that they better turn the ship around pretty quickly on this, or they're going to -- the Republicans are going to suffer broadly in election, because this isn't what Americans wanted.
COLLINS: And it's a question of how Democrats will handle it in response.
URBAN: Well--
COLLINS: Because we've seen what they've been saying.
URBAN: Yes.
COLLINS: And I think something from the Minneapolis Mayor, Karen, stood out, from Jacob Frey, talking about the difference in what is a lawful purpose by ICE and what he says has been playing out in his city.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR JACOB FREY, (D) MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA: I do not support abolishing ICE. I, however, I absolutely oppose the way that this administration is conducting themselves with us.
American citizens are being taken off our streets right now, and I hope any American citizen out there can understand--
GRIFF JENKINS, CO-HOST, FOX & FRIENDS WEEKEND: Yes.
FREY: --how concerning that is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Yes, I mean, look, part of what is so shocking, and part of the reason, I think, is one of the other things in these polls that are coming out, over 60 percent of Americans say they've seen something about this, they've watched a video. So, this is really sinking into the conscious of America in the way, frankly, that the murder of George Floyd did.
And I think part of the reason is the violence and the sort of indiscriminate violence. I mean, earlier today, I was -- you know, just on social media, there's a little kid being held back as they were -- that ICE was trying to get the parents to come out of their house. You see them crashing windows and trying to literally rip people out of their cars. And these end up, in many cases, being American citizens. And it is terrifying, and it is brutalizing.
And again, I think people would say, This is not what we voted for. What we voted for was -- and the other interesting thing in these polls is it's actually building more support for comprehensive immigration reform--
URBAN: Yes.
FINNEY: --which is what we were trying to do during the Biden administration just last year. And it was Trump himself, who killed that.
So, I think Democrats have an opportunity to go on offense and talk about what is, because we're having a similar conversation, frankly, that we did after the murder of George Floyd, which is, use of force. Let's talk about accountability. Let's talk about what is appropriate use of force.
But these ICE agents. We're hearing reports. Our own reporters today were saying, they're undertrained. They're not trained in how to de- escalate. They're not even using sort of best practices in terms of law enforcement, in terms of how you would approach people. And so, I think there's a conversation we can be having about what it should look like versus what you're seeing.
COLLINS: But given that, and David, you mentioned the administration, what you would politically advise them to do. They have only leaned in since the death of Renee Good. They've only surged actually more forces in.
FINNEY: Yes.
URBAN: Yes.
FINNEY: It's actually worse (ph).
COLLINS: And as there are these reports tonight of another ICE- involved, or federal-agents-involved shooting, and we're waiting to figure out what happened. The Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, weighed in and said that ICE operates in thousands of cities without incident. He said, Men and women doing their jobs, and protecting us from criminal aliens. He said, Minnesota insurrection is a direct result of a FAILED governor and a TERRIBLE mayor encouraging violence against law enforcement.
Todd Blanche says, It's disgusting, and that he is focused on stopping you, meaning the Governor and the Mayor here, from your terrorism by whatever means necessary. This is not a threat. It's a promise.
How do you read that?
URBAN: Yes, I don't even know what that means, OK? I don't know what that means. It's, I mean, not to be too harsh, that sounds like a Kamala Harris answer. I can't know what it means. OK? Here's what I know.
FINNEY: Not to be too harsh, but I will.
URBAN: OK. Listen, here's what I know. It's a sanctuary--
COLLINS: You're saying--
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: It's a sanctuary city. If you want to cooperate with ICE, like the Mayor is like, Oh, we love ICE, come on in.
No, you don't love ICE. It's a sanctuary city.
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: Well--
URBAN: We're saying we're not going to -- we're not going to help, we're not going to cooperate with the federal government in these things.
If the Mayor and the Governor wanted de-escalate and turn things down? Say, Listen, we're going to cooperate. We should all -- there should be a powwow of some sort where -- because clearly what's going on right now, everybody in America can see this. This isn't working, right? It's not working for the federal government. It's not working for the local government.
FINNEY: But I'm glad you mentioned this, this issue with law enforcement. Because remember that local law enforcement, there are real reasons, from a law enforcement perspective, and when you talk to them, about why, sometimes, they believe that ICE should be -- they're federal government, that is their responsibility, and they are in the business of trying to build a long-term relationship and trust in the community.
URBAN: No--
FINNEY: So sometimes these ICE enforcements conflict with their ability to do that.
Now, I would bet you, if they rolled in and said, Hey, we know where Tren de Aragua is, and we're going to go get them. Y'all want to be with us?
A 1,000 percent everybody would be on board with that. That's not what's happening here.
URBAN: I know, but we--
FINNEY: That shooting a woman in the face--
URBAN: No, I'm not -- I'm not debating this.
FINNEY: --David is not--
URBAN: I'm not debating that part. I'm just saying--
COLLINS: We heard even the President said tonight about Renee Good because--
URBAN: Yes.
COLLINS: --he sat down with--
URBAN: I saw.
COLLINS: --our buddy, Steve Holland from Reuters, in the Oval Office tonight.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: And Steve did a really good interview with him.
And the President -- Steve asked him if he believes that the ICE officer did the right thing by shooting Renee Good.
And President Trump told Steve Holland, I don't get into right or wrong. I know that it was a tough situation to be in, of the ICE officer's involvement. He said, There was very little respect shown to the police, in this case, the ICE officers. It's so sad to see on both sides.
[21:45:00]
URBAN: And before that, he said, I'm sure she's a nice woman.
He had made comments early in the day to another outlet.
FINNEY: I think they're calling her a terrorist.
URBAN: But another outlet, he made comments today.
Listen, everybody in America think we can do better than what's happening right now. That's the underlying -- the underlying theme here. I wish cities would try to figure out a way not to be sanctuary cities and fight the federal government, and enforce laws they like and not enforce laws.
Listen, I don't want to pay my taxes. Does that mean me and my people in my city can get together and say, We're not paying taxes. We're a tax sanctuary city. Coming here -- you want to live here in Fort Myers, Florida, and not pay your taxes? Move here.
You can't just pick and choose which laws you like and which laws you don't like.
COLLINS: Yes.
FINNEY: But you know--
COLLINS: David Urban--
FINNEY: Ultimately, David, I'm going to pull from something you said this morning though. If this continues, that is not a reason to give Republicans more power in the midterm elections.
URBAN: Well, those numbers, as you see, Harry's numbers, they're not good.
FINNEY: No.
COLLINS: Karen Finney. David Urban. Thank you for that.
And I should note, we are continuing tonight to follow a report of a shooting involving federal agents in Minneapolis, just a few days after the death of Renee Good. We see a swarm of law enforcement officers as well as demonstrators right here on the scene. We're going to bring you the latest of what we know from our reporters on the ground tonight.
And also, an update on that other story we've been following tonight. The Justice Department is reaching out to Democratic lawmakers about that video telling military members they should resist illegal orders. One of those Democrats will join me, right after this.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're learning tonight that the Justice Department has contacted multiple Democratic lawmakers, as it is apparently still investigating that video they put out, where they told U.S. forces to refuse illegal orders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): We want to speak directly to members of the military.
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): And the intelligence community.
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Who take risks each day.
REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): To keep Americans safe.
KELLY: Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.
SLOTKIN: You can refuse illegal orders.
DELUZIO: You must refuse illegal orders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, of the six Democratic lawmakers involved in that video who are all former military or intelligence vets, I should note, four of them have now confirmed that the U.S. Attorney's Office, here in Washington, Jeanine Pirro, has requested interviews with them.
One of those lawmakers is joining me tonight. Democratic congressman, Jason Crow of Colorado.
And Congressman, thank you for being here.
Just to be clear, do you know what it is, what crime it is that they are investigating? I know the President had said, seditious conspiracy. But is it clear to you what exactly the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office is pursuing here?
CROW: No, because there is no crime, and that's exactly the point.
The lawlessness and the corruption of this administration is impacting Americans in every facet of our society. From Minneapolis to our service members, to businesses that can't get permits because maybe their executives said something that Donald Trump does not like. And now, members of Congress who are actually performing their duties, their constitutional duties, of ensuring our military and our government follows the law.
Everybody is being impacted. And there doesn't need to be a basis in law or fact, and that's actually the point here. They threaten and intimidate people who disagree with them, they try to silence opposition.
COLLINS: Do you plan to speak with the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office?
CROW: We're not going to bow down to threats and intimidation, a campaign by this administration. Period. Right? There is no merit in this whatsoever. This is a harassment campaign against members of Congress who are performing their duty. That is the bottom line. We are not going to be cowed. We're not going to be intimidated.
And it's really important that we're not, because this is actually not about us, as members of Congress. What this is, is the Trump administration trying to set an example, by intimidating political leaders of the opposition, so that everybody else, regular Americans, people across the country, will look at, Hey, if members of Congress are vulnerable or are harassed and intimidated, why should I stick my neck out? Why should I protest? Why should I dissent or let my voice be heard? So, it's really important, right now, that we stand firm and hold our ground. COLLINS: And can I get your take as all this is playing out? One thing that you and your colleagues have been faced with, this question here in Washington, is what we're seeing play out in Minneapolis tonight. We were just talking about where talking about where the President's numbers are, where Americans are, when it comes to ICE, and what's been playing out.
Now tonight, we're learning of another officer-involved shooting. We're getting a statement only from the Department of Homeland Security, so far, in terms of the details here on this.
But one question has been about ICE overall and support for it here on Capitol Hill. Do you -- are you in favor of this idea of potentially shutting down the government when it comes to more ICE funding, unless there are reforms that some of your colleagues have suggested?
CROW: It's really clear at this point that ICE is a rogue government agency. The Republicans, early in 2025, jammed through in the middle of the night, more money than ICE has ever had, tripled their budget in many cases, without oversight, without strings attached, without any guardrails in place.
And we're seeing the results of that right now. Masked agents. People running around in marked cars. Americans being snatched off the street without habeas corpus, without rights, without hearings. Americans being deported. And now, innocent civilians being killed.
So, this needs to stop, and it needs to stop now. And we need to be able to use every leverage we have available to us, that is oversight, that is appropriations, that's funding, that's litigation, to protect our communities, because that's what this is about.
[21:55:00]
We have obligations to protect our constituents from what is now a rogue and lawless agency that is doing tremendous damage to our communities, including mine. I have one of the largest immigrant refugee communities in the country that has been victimized by this agency time and time again.
COLLINS: Congressman Jason Crow, thank you for joining us tonight.
CROW: Thank you.
COLLINS: And we are continuing to follow the breaking news of what's happening out of Minneapolis. We're getting new details from the Department of Homeland Security, as I mentioned. We'll share this with you, right after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: All right, we've been talking about the scene that we're watching play out in Minneapolis tonight. You can see police, federal agents there, also protesters that we've seen on the ground. We knew this was a shooting involving a federal agent. And we've gotten a new statement from the Department of Homeland Security. It's a length statement, but in part, this is the DHS version of what has played out in Minneapolis tonight. They say that federal law enforcement were -- enforcement officers were conducting a targeted traffic stop for someone they described as a, quote, Illegal alien from Venezuela.
[22:00:00]
And the Department of Homeland Security says that that person was attempting to evade arrest and fled the scene before crashing into a parked car and then fleeing on foot. It says, this person was caught up with by law enforcement, and then the person, as they were attempting to apprehend them, began to, quote, Resist and violently assault the officer.
The Department of Homeland Security says that while they were in a struggle on the ground, quote, Two subjects came out of a nearby apartment and also attacked the law enforcement officer with a shovel and a broom handle.
What they have reported tonight is that the officer was fearing for his life and safety as he was being ambushed, and fired defensive shots to save his life, and he was hit in the leg.
What we know from DHS is that the officer and the subject are both in the hospital, and both attackers are in custody.
We'll keep you updated with more as we learn.
Thanks for joining us tonight.
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