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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Threatens Insurrection Act To Deploy Troops To Minnesota; Machado Says She Presented Trump With Nobel Peace Prize Medal; WH: Trump Was "Joking" About Canceling Midterms. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 15, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: President Trump threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act, which hasn't been used since 1992 as tensions are spiking on the ground in Minneapolis, again tonight.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, President Trump is openly raising the possibility of invoking the Insurrection Act, a rarely-used federal law that would allow for the deployment of the U.S. military inside the United States, as we've seen protests and clashes with federal law enforcement only intensifying in Minnesota.
As we come on the air here at 09:00 p.m. Eastern, tensions are still high there in Minneapolis, where demonstrators are back on the streets again tonight. And throughout the day, we've seen heated confrontations between those protesters, and federal agents who have been surged into Minneapolis.
In just the last 24 hours alone, CNN crews have witnessed as cars have been vandalized and ransacked. One CNN crew was struck by pepper balls. As demonstrators were confronting a large group of ICE agents outside of a federal building.
The President responded to everything we're seeing play out early this morning, by warning, and I'm quoting him now, "I will institute the INSURRECTION ACT" if needed.
Now, the President has threatened to do so on many occasions. You've obviously heard this before, since he was back in office about a year ago. He's never actually gone as far as to do so. And it would be a dramatic escalation if he did, given this would allow the President to deploy the military inside the United States to suppress rebellion or enforce federal law.
It's a power that has been used pretty sparingly throughout our nation's history. But the Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, did confirm today, while she was speaking with reporters at the White House that she has talked about this with the President today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Would you describe it as an insurrection, and do you believe the President should invoke the Insurrection Act?
KRISTI NOEM, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I describe it as violent and a violation of the law in many places. I discussed with the President, this morning, several things that we are dealing with under the Department and different operations. We did discuss the Insurrection Act. He certainly has the constitutional authority to utilize that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We've seen presidents invoke this Act before.
President Lincoln at the start of the Civil War.
President Grant during the efforts to dismantle the KKK.
One of the most notable uses actually happened during the Civil Rights era, when federal authority was used to enforce court-ordered desegregation and to protect black Americans.
And it's that same authority that is now being discussed amid the protests that we are seeing over federal enforcement actions that have been playing out. In Saint Paul, a school district spokesperson said there that federal agents actually stopped two vans that were carrying students and staff on their way to school.
And in other parts of the country, we're also seeing reports of expanded federal enforcement actions as well.
In Santa Ana, California, a protestor there was struck in the face by a projectile that had been fired at close range by an officer. That person's family now says that he has lost vision in one of his eyes.
Meanwhile, in Charlotte, Customs and Border Protection officers smashed a vehicle window during a stop, even after the driver told them that he was a U.S. citizen, according to this video of the encounter.
In Minneapolis, though, a man who was pumping gas recorded his interaction with federal agents as they questioned his citizenship.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Leave me alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Here, federal agents were pulling a woman from her car. She said there, in that moment, as we'll show it to you now, that she was disabled and going to the doctor.
Well, she has since clarified, in a statement, she was on her way to a traumatic brain injury appointment, when this moment happened, where they had to cut her seatbelt off of her to pull her out of the car.
The Department of Homeland Security says that she was arrested for obstructing officers during an enforcement operation, and that she was ignoring their commands.
But what we are seeing play out tonight. Well, we know for sure, more and more people have been filming their own interactions with agents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have some ID then please?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't need an ID.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If not, we're going to put you in the vehicle and we're going to ID you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am U.S. citizen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, can we see an ID, please?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where were you born?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my home. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're doing an immigration check. We're doing a citizen check.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This isn't -- this is -- this is--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're asking you where you were born.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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COLLINS: We've heard from the administration, here in Washington, saying that those actions, those questions, they believe are lawful and consistent with longstanding policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Secretary Noem, are you OK with federal agents and officers violating people's Fourth Amendment rights by asking for papers without reasonable suspicion?
NOEM: Every single action that our ICE officers take is according to the law and following protocols that we have used for years, that this administration has used, that the previous administration used. They are doing everything correctly. And over and over again, in litigation, in the courts, we've proven that they've done the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Our Senior Crime and Justice Correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz, is on the ground in Minneapolis tonight, where we've seen a lot of action happening just in the last hour or so alone.
And Shimon, can you tell us what's been happening in the background, what you're seeing there tonight?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, we were on by the main entrance of this federal building. This is where every night protesters have been gathering. We were on the other side. And there were some clashes with law enforcement, and they were able to push many of the protesters back. They were just telling them to move back. There was no force used. But they moved back.
Then what happened is, right after that, a bunch of the protesters decided they wanted to come to this side of the building. And so, this is where we are now. And what they were doing, Kaitlan, was they were pulling on this fence here. They were trying to knock the fence down. And that's when all of these officers, all of these officers, moved to this side, and we witnessed them deploy pepper spray.
One of the protestors was hit directly in the eyes. He dropped immediately to the ground and started screaming in pain.
And so now, basically, I want to show you, you have these protesters here. There aren't many here at this point, probably about 50 or so. It's not a particularly large crowd. But it's a loud crowd, and they're sort of in a standoff now with the federal law enforcement officials who are here now gathered behind this gate.
They came over, law enforcement, they made sure that this gate was secure, and now they've been mostly standing on this side, making sure that none of the protesters try to climb over the fence. Because, some of them were trying to. They were getting up high, and they were pulling on the fence. It was fine until that point, and that's when law enforcement came over here, and they deployed pepper spray, and they told folks they needed to move back.
And this is where we are now. We're finding these pockets of kind of agitation, and then law enforcement responds, and then things calm down, and then things flare up.
COLLINS: Shimon, obviously, we'll keep checking in with you. Keep us updated on what you're seeing on the ground, and what is happening with those federal officers that are standing on the other side of the fence, from the protesters there in Minneapolis tonight.
And when you see what Shimon is reporting on tonight, this is something that Democratic governors across the nation have been watching as well. This administration, obviously, is hyper-focused on Minnesota at this moment, surging agents there. There's about 3,000 on the ground, based on our latest numbers.
I want to start tonight with another governor that the President has also been highly critical of, at times before. Maryland governor, Wes Moore.
And Governor, I think when you're watching what's playing out in Minneapolis, so far this evening. The President now threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act. Do you believe that he would have the legal authority to do so? Should he do that?
GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): Well, the President would have the legal authority to authorize the Insurrection Act.
But the question isn't his authority. Is that the authority, oftentimes it should come with moral clarity, and it should come with an operational necessity. And both of those two things are missing, if the President is talking about invoking the Insurrection Act. Because, when you're talking about the deployment of federal officers and federal troops, that is usually done because you want to de-escalate a situation. The President is now doing it to escalate a situation.
And so, watching what is happening right now has been a -- has been a warning cry, not just to Democratic governors, but frankly, to Chief Executives all across the country, Democrat and Republican, who are seeing how not just state rights are being violated, but also the safety and security of our citizens is now under threat, as well.
COLLINS: As a veteran, I mean, how would you feel if the President does invoke the Insurrection Act?
MOORE: When I took the oath, and when I put my hand on the Bible, and when I pledged to defend this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic, I did it with an understanding and a belief that the Chief Executive would never authorize me to go into a situation, where my fighting was not completely necessary and mission-critical and mission-aligned.
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And then that is the difficulty, I think, for a lot of soldiers, that they are facing right now, is they are seeing the situation that they are being asked to go in and serve in. They are seeing how -- in our state, we believe in public safety, and we believe in following the Constitution.
And frankly, if you want to understand how to make communities safe, just ask your Chief Executive. Since I've been the Governor of the State of Maryland, we have dropped the violent crime rate by nearly 50 percent, the largest drops in the entire country, and we've done it also by following the Constitution.
And that is the challenge, I think, for every soldier who is wondering, why are they now being asked to do this? Because this is not de-escalation tactics right now.
COLLINS: You've likened it as a warning to governors across the nation. I mean, we're seeing what happens when the President is focused on, on one state in particular. What do you make of how Governor Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey have handled this?
MOORE: Well, I've been in communication with my colleague and friend, Governor Walz. And we all understand what he is -- what he is dealing with right now, when we are watching a federal administration who, instead of offering to help and support, who actually are helping to inflame the situation.
And the people who are closest to the challenge are the ones who are going to be closest to the solutions. And when I was deployed in Afghanistan, as a member of the 82nd Airborne, if someone wanted to understand what was going on with the soldiers on the ground, you didn't ask the Brigade Commander. You asked the soldiers who were closest to the soldiers.
And so, the governors are the ones who have the best understanding of what is happening in our individual states. And frankly, the governors should be the ones to be able to help to make the decisions, and not the ones who now have to respond to what is happening from the White House, hundreds of miles away.
COLLINS: Well, and one argument that the White House has made repeatedly here about why this is happening. Tom Homan articulated it today. He's the President's border czar, as you well know. He says, this is what's to blame for what's happening in Minneapolis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: Minneapolis, they're sanctuary city. You know, if they let us in their damn jail and stopped being a sanctuary city, we could arrest the bad guy in the safety and security of a jail. The difference is, in places that's not a sanctuary, one agent can walk into a jail and arrest one criminal illegal alien. But when you release them in the community, now we got to send the whole team because we got to arrest somebody on their turf. The access -- they have access to know who knows what weapons. It makes it dangerous for the officer, makes it dangerous for the alien. Certainly makes it dangerous for the community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Maryland is not a sanctuary state, obviously, as you know, Governor.
MOORE: Correct.
COLLINS: Do you think that the administration has a point there, if there was cooperation with the police in Minneapolis?
MOORE: No, because what he just said was not just factually incorrect. It's operationally foolish. Because, here's what we know in the State of Maryland, is that we actually follow the Constitution. We make sure that laws are being followed. And the people of my state know there is no higher priority that we have than public safety.
People who know, the violent offenders in the State of Maryland, they know, I have no patience for you. And the thing that we also know that in our state, if someone commits a violent crime, particularly with a firearm, we will have them in handcuffs in 24 hours. It's the reason why, in the State of Maryland, we have, amongst the -- we have the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States, that violent crime has dropped nearly 50 percent since I've been the governor.
The difference is this, is that we believe in constitutional policing here. We actually believe in working with communities here. Because, by working with communities, you're then able to increase the closure rate, then help to solve crimes, and help to make your communities safer.
And so, what we are seeing, the bloviation that we just saw from Tom Homan, is not just inaccurate. But frankly, it's going to make the situation worse.
COLLINS: So you're critical of Tom Homan there. You say he's wrong.
You have worked with other people in the President's Cabinet, I should note, including the Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy. Obviously, we've talked a lot about the project to rebuild the Francis Scott Key Bridge in your state, in Baltimore. Collapsed in 2024 after that cargo ship struck it.
You have been meeting with Secretary Duffy. What does that look like, that relationship between the two of you, and where does that project stand tonight?
MOORE: Well, just today, I had another very productive meeting with the Secretary. And the Secretary and I are in complete agreement that not only is the Key Bridge the fastest moving major project in the country, and that Maryland truly put on a case study of how to respond in times of crisis.
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But also, we are working together to ensure that we can both accelerate the timeline and control the costs. And not just on the Key Bridge. Also, on other projects like the American Legion Bridge, where we are going to work together to take these stalled projects that have existed for long periods of time that I inherited, and making sure that in this time we are going to get these projects done, because we are going to move fast, and we are going to move together.
And people see that I will work with Democrats and Republicans. We are working with members of the Trump administration, to serve the people of the State of Maryland. And we're proud of the progress that we're making on the Key Bridge. We are excited about what we're going to get done together on the American Legion Bridge. And we're going to bring the Purple Line to completion. But that's because we're actually choosing to work together.
And the Secretary, to his credit, is actually working with the Governor, to be able to ensure that in partnership, we can actually accomplish big things.
COLLINS: Governor Wes Moore, thank you. Thanks for joining us tonight.
MOORE: Thank you so much.
COLLINS: And as we continue to monitor these scenes out of Minneapolis, I've got my law enforcement and legal sources here tonight, including:
The former acting Director of ICE under President Obama, John Sandweg.
And the former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Tom Dupree.
And Tom, I think legally, a lot of people want to know, is there a standard that the President has to meet to invoke the Insurrection Act? Or is it something that is really up to the discretion of the President?
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, the law doesn't specify the precise level of civil unrest that has to be hit before the President can invoke the Insurrection Act. But I will say that it is a fairly high bar.
In other words, the Insurrection Act, as you noted, has only been invoked rarely in American history. And there has to be a fairly widespread degree of serious, severe civil unrest before the President can invoke this emergency, extraordinary authority, to literally deploy American troops on the streets of an American city.
I don't think we're quite there yet. We may get there. But from what I've seen, it doesn't quite hit that level that you would need in order to invoke the Insurrection Act. Not to say Trump wouldn't do it, and he has the authority to do it. But in my judgment, at least based on historical examples, not quite there yet.
COLLINS: Yes, and John, I mean, I should note that this comes in the context that I think is important is that there are already 3,000 federal agents who are on the ground. There were 2,000. Then the administration said they were surging another 1,000.
You saw the scene that Shimon was just reporting on. He said it was tense, but about 50 people standing on the other side of that federal building fence that was there. Is it even clear to you what U.S. forces would do, in addition to having those federal agents who are already there?
JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ICE ACTING DIRECTOR, FORMER ACTING GENERAL COUNSEL, DHS: I don't think, Kaitlan, there's anything that the U.S. forces would do that that the -- the federal agents can't do. But I think more importantly is what would the presence do, which is only really inflamed situation worse.
Candidly, Kaitlan, I have real concerns with the way in which they're deploying the DHS assets. We brought up a 1,000 Border Patrol agents. These are usually in tactical units. But these are agents who are trained to patrol and apprehend immigrants who enter -- who enter the United States unlawfully at the southwest border. Right?
Now we have them protecting federal buildings. One is, this is just as I've said before, something that's far outside their normal training. And then that, I think that you see often, some of -- a lot of these incidents can be blamed on the fact that we put these agents out of position.
But I think two, is their very presence in flames the protests, right? When immediately after Ms. Good was shot, we saw a deployment of state and local police, and things calmed down quickly. It was a peaceful protest about what happened. But the protesters are there protesting the very presence of these federal agents. And deploying them in front of these federal buildings, in my opinion, only exacerbates the situation and makes things worse.
COLLINS: Well, in terms of, as we've seen night after night, things have not calmed down really.
I do question Tom though, what we're hearing from Secretary Noem today, about the right to just stop and ask people if they're U.S. citizens, what the basis for that is. I mean, Brett Kavanaugh did write that apparent ethnicity could be a relevant factor in federal agents to stop and demand proof of citizenship from people. That was in the decision when we were talking about what was happening playing out in L.A.
What do you make of that?
DUPREE: Well, the legal standard is really reasonable suspicion. And Justice Kavanaugh, I think, had it right, when he basically said, Look, you can't ask someone to prove their identity simply because of their ethnicity. There has to be something more. It could be the way they're behaving. It could be what you find them doing. But something more than mere ethnicity, that prompts that inquiry.
Secretary Noem seems to contemplate federal agents questioning people for identity papers, simply because they're in the area of a protest, or they're standing outside a federal building or protesting. I'm not sure legally that is sufficient to amount to reasonable suspicion.
COLLINS: Really?
DUPREE: Probably not. If you're just simply on a street corner, something like that? Maybe not. I think you probably would need more. But as a practical matter, I think it is going to be very difficult for people to stop the administration from doing that through the courts.
COLLINS: Yes, but if you're on that street, if you're at that protest, and they ask you for that. As a U.S. citizen, what rights do they have there? Can they just say no? Or, I mean, we're watching these videos of people in their car saying, I am a U.S. citizen. And then, of course--
(CROSSTALK)
DUPREE: Well, I think here we have a difference between what you would be legally entitled to do and what makes sense practically.
[21:20:00]
In other words, it's one thing to say, You have a legal right not to be stopped and asked for identity papers. It's another thing for someone, who is confronted with agents, and feels very threatened and intimidated in that situation, from refusing to comply. That can be a very difficult situation.
So, I think what we're going to see is we are going to see the administration making a very aggressive use, very aggressive interpretation of what amounts to justifiable reasonable suspicion to stop people and ask them for identity papers. It may get challenged in the courts. But those are very, very difficult legal cases to win.
COLLINS: Tom Dupree. John Sandweg. Great to have both of your expertise here tonight joining us as we start the hour off.
And we're going to continue to watch what is happening on the ground in Minneapolis tonight. We'll go back to Shimon and his team as there are developments underway as we've been watching. It's playing out really minute-by-minute.
This also comes tonight, as here in Washington, the acting President of Venezuela used a national address to lay out a new era between her nation and the U.S. But that happened as Venezuela's opposition leader, who a lot of people see as the nation's rightful leader, was at the White House with a gift for the President, something he has long desired.
We're going to get John Bolton's take, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is confirming that he's received a Nobel Peace Prize medal from last year's winner.
With the future of her country's leadership still uncertain, after the United States captured Nicolas Maduro, the Venezuela opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, walked into the White House today, as you can see here, for a high-stakes sit-down with President Trump, and left behind something he has long desired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA CORINA MACHADO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER: I presented the President of the United States the medal of the Nobel Peace Prize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President, hours later, confirmed that, saying that, Maria presented me with her Nobel Peace Prize for the work I have done. Such a wonderful gesture of mutual respect.
A source tells CNN that the President is keeping the medal, even though the President previously said that he did not believe Machado had the respect within Venezuela to govern.
Machado, I should note, did not leave the White House empty-handed today. We saw her walking out of the meeting with a red gift bag, bearing the President's golden signature. There's a gift shop that he's installed right outside of the Oval Office.
And seemingly anticipating that this would happen today, when she visited the White House, the Nobel Peace Center put out a statement, this morning, clarifying that, quote, "Once a Nobel Prize is announced, it cannot be revoked, shared, or transferred to others. The decision is final and stands for all time." The Center also added, "A medal can change owners, but the title of a Nobel Peace Prize laureate cannot."
Joining me tonight is John Bolton, who was the former National Security Adviser during President Trump's first term, and who also served as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations under President George W. Bush.
And Ambassador Bolton, do you view this, as President Trump put it tonight, as a wonderful gesture of mutual respect?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UN, AUTHOR, "THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENED": Well, look, it's the price of admission, but it's really, it's like somebody giving their Super Bowl ring to somebody else. They're not saying the person won the Super Bowl. They're just saying, now they have the ring. Trump has wanted this. He's got it. It's just shameful that this is the way the President of the United States behaves. But I think it was wise of Machado to do it. You have to play with the hand that's dealt to you.
COLLINS: What did you make of her leaving the White House with a gift bag, basically?
BOLTON: It's even more shameful. But this is Donald Trump.
I mean, in terms of the substance of the meeting, it doesn't look like anybody's position has changed, although she was emphasizing what the U.S. has done previously, which is recognized her ally, Edmundo Gonzalez, who actually won the 2024 presidential election in Venezuela, as the real legitimate president.
So, we're in a position now, where we could see two alternative governments being set up, as happened in 2018 and 2019. I think we're at risk of Trump losing a real opportunity to get rid of not just Maduro, but the whole Maduro regime. He hasn't thrown it away yet. But if we don't move soon, we could well lose the opportunity, and Venezuela will be right back to where it was before.
COLLINS: And by move soon, what do you mean? What do you want -- what do you want to see happen? What would you be advising the President, if you were still in the Situation Room with him?
BOLTON: Well, I wouldn't be telling Delcy Rodriguez, she's a wonderful person. I'd be telling her, Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino, Interior Minister Diosdado Cabello, and others, they've got 30 days to leave and go into exile in Nevada.
We've got the coercive power there now. Not saying we have to put boots on the ground. But if we had acted against the regime, while grabbing Maduro, I think we'd be in a very different place now.
The opposition has a lot of qualified people in it. And if the goal is to get to stability, you're not going to get to stability in Venezuela until there's a rule-of-law government with which the remainder of the Maduro regime most certainly is not.
COLLINS: Any chance that Machado giving the President her Nobel Peace Prize is worth it, if she actually goes on to lead Venezuela, if you're looking at it cynically?
BOLTON: Well, look, I think it's worth the effort. I'm sure she can always get another medal. It's just the medallion. It's not -- it's not the prize itself. And if it moves Trump even a little bit, I think that's helpful. I'm not sure it will, at this point.
And sometimes, when the moment passes, it just may mean the opposition is condemned to be on the sideline. That's not good for our long-term interest. There's no evidence that Delcy Rodriguez has taken any steps, whatever, to reduce the Russian, Cuban, Chinese and Iranian presence, which is the real threat to the United States and Western Hemisphere stability. I'm worried this-- COLLINS: Yes.
BOLTON: --chance is slipping away.
[21:30:00]
COLLINS: Well, and can I get your take on Iran? Because I was in the Oval, yesterday, when the President told us, he had been told by a highly-informed source that the killings in Iran had stopped. We're reporting tonight that he held off striking Iran, following this urgent effort, as it was described to us, by top U.S. allies, to forestall military action. We're told that. And also came from the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
What did you make of that?
BOLTON: That's not what the Israeli press is reporting. After the initial report here in The New York Times. The Israeli position in the Israeli press anyway, is that they're not pushing for a strike against Iran now, but they would support whatever the U.S. did. That makes sense to me.
The Arab states are worried about it. They were worried before we struck the nuclear program. They do have legitimate concerns, and those concerns are addressed by the targets we pick.
In the first round, at least the first round, we don't go after the ayatollahs, and we don't go after Iran's oil infrastructure. We go after the mechanisms that repress the people and threaten us, the Revolutionary Guard, the CG (ph) militia, the Quds Force and others. That, I think, is allays that -- should allay the fears of the Gulf Arab states.
COLLINS: We still don't even really have a good idea of what's actually been happening in Iran in the last two weeks. I mean, we have somewhat of an idea. We've seen videos. But there's been this major internet blackout that's been playing out.
Do you believe that the killing has actually stopped, as the President says?
BOLTON: I don't think we have any way of knowing. Outside of the places where Western journalists are, it could be going on.
Look, the regime, I think, was desperately afraid that the United States was about to strike. And they saw what we could do when we grabbed Maduro. They should be desperately worried. I think the regime is very weak.
But we need to have a policy that says, our objective is regime change. It's not going to happen because of one strike, but to have a consistent policy to weaken the regime, and support the opposition. And those -- that policy, that strategy, just is not in place. This is one day at a time, looking at it in -- completely anew every day.
And we may be in a posture now, where he's trying to build up force in the region. It'd be nice if we had more carrier strike groups. That should be part of the budget plan going forward. And it's too bad that Gerald R. Ford is in the Caribbean, instead of in the Mediterranean.
COLLINS: Ambassador John Bolton, we'll continue watching this closely. Thanks for joining us tonight.
BOLTON: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next. We are continuing to watch what's happening on the ground in Minneapolis. ICE agents were firing pepper balls at demonstrators. As the President has been warning he will invoke the Insurrection Act. We'll take a look at how are Americans viewing this tonight.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're monitoring the tense protests that are happening right now on the ground in Minneapolis.
As here in Washington, the President is renewing a threat that he's made before, this time, to invoke the Insurrection Act, which would be able to -- which would allow him to deploy the U.S. military out on the ground in the streets of the United States, obviously, in Minnesota, as the President is threatening here.
And it's something that his border czar says is a real possibility tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Tom, is it time for the Insurrection Act? Or would that just add gasoline to the fire?
HOMAN: I'm not going to get ahead of the President on that, but it's certainly an option, a viable option. So actually, I'll be meeting with the President tomorrow. So, you know, I think it's something that needs to be on the table, because this cannot continue. There is going to be more bloodshed. I'm telling you. I hope I'm wrong. But I haven't been yet (ph).
INGRAHAM: It's going to spread.
HOMAN: There's going to be more bloodshed if something isn't done.
INGRAHAM: Yes. Tom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources tonight are here.
Mondaire Jones.
And David Urban. And David, the President has threatened this A lot of times. You heard Tom Homan there, saying he predicts that there's going to be more bloodshed on the ground in Minneapolis. I mean, Trump has never gone as far as to actually invoke it. Does anything that you've seen on the ground, in your view, warrant that?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Well, Kaitlan, there's lots of things that I see. But there's snippets. I'm not privy to the complete picture on the ground and what's happening.
I think there are many steps could be taken before you put federalized troops on the ground, in Minneapolis, the local police, the state police, the National Guard. There are three levels that can be -- you could have out there policing and helping ICE in handling these protests.
So, I would hope and pray that we see lots of that on the ground before you'd see troops from the 101st Airborne Division, and the 82nd Airborne Division, there policing. It's not really their role. They're not great at it. They're great at seizing airfields and doing big things like that. But policing is not one of their top skills.
I think the Minnesota State Police, lots of local police, Minnesota National Guard, should be called out.
And these protesters need to kind of dial it back a little bit. They shouldn't be smashing cars and -- these aren't peaceful protests, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Mondaire Jones, what do you make of that?
[21:40:00]
MONDAIRE JONES, (D) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, look, the only thing that has remotely resembled an insurrection in recent years has been the actual insurrection that Donald Trump incited on January 6th, 2021, which is something I lived through, as you know, Kaitlan.
I appreciate Mr. Urban saying that we're not at a point where that would need to be invoked as a statute. He's absolutely right about that. I don't think we'll get to that point.
The polling is certainly clear. The American people are outraged by the Trump administration's weaponization of the federal government, whether it be ICE, the U.S. military, or otherwise, against the American people, and it's not looking good for this, among other reasons, including the health care cuts and the rising prices that we are seeing because of Trump's tariffs, when it comes to the midterms in just another year from now.
COLLINS: Well, David, I wonder what you make, because--
URBAN: Yes, but -- yes.
COLLINS: Can I ask you, though? Because David Urban, we've had you on, I think, three times now, as Minneapolis has been playing out, ever since Renee Good was shot. And you have said that immigration was one of the President's biggest strong points. We've seen the polling, we talked about it the other night, just where it's actually not becoming--
URBAN: Yes.
COLLINS: --it's becoming a liability for him.
And Kristi Noem today was saying that ICE agents can ask U.S. citizens to validate their identity.
Elie Honig said, without a basis, that's illegal and unconstitutional to require someone to show their citizenship papers, without any other basis to make a stop.
That's the legal perspective. Politically, though, do you think this is something that the President's voters and supporters, or just any Americans want to see?
URBAN: Well, Kaitlan, look, it's not my -- this isn't David Urban talking. This is the polling, you know, the CNN polling, other polling, it said that it has turned on the President.
This is -- as we looked at last night, Harry Enten's polling was showing us the CNN/SSRS poll, that showed that the President had taken a positive and turned it to a negative. I think that we need to do something -- that the White House should do something to address that.
But the video that you were just showing, Kaitlan, the smashed federal cars, and the F-ICE, and there's a lot of really serious anti-ICE rhetoric out there that's standing in the way of these individuals trying to do their jobs.
I think, the Governor can do a lot to dial it back. The Mayor can do a lot to dial it back. There's lots of things that need to take place. Otherwise this -- the President will be within his right to invoke the Insurrection Act if, in fact, the state and local police, and state and local militia, the National Guard there, can't dial back the violence that's taking place.
You can have peaceful protests. You can stand across the street, you can chant, you can do all those things. But you can't smash federal property. You can't assault federal law enforcement. Just can't do it.
And so, if that continues on, the President's well within his right. I hope he doesn't get there. I hope the state and local folks step up. I hope the Governor steps up. I hope the Mayor allows -- you know, would cancel the sanctuary city status of Minnesota. That'd go a long way to make this all go away.
COLLINS: Well, Mondaire, what do you make of that? Because Chuck Schumer was somewhere he is not often today, and that was the White House. It was to talk about a funding pool for New York and the surrounding area. But according to Schumer's office, they said that he told the President, ICE raids are terrorizing communities, that their actions are dangerous and putting more people at risk, and he must pull back ICE from U.S. cities.
Do you think the President is listening to Chuck Schumer?
JONES: I don't -- I don't know who the President is listening to, outside of Stephen Miller. I mean, there's already been some reporting that the President may be losing his mind in his old age.
But here's the thing. We talk about the need for sort of a calming down in Minnesota. I think of the video that has now gone viral, of Renee Good, who was unarmed, and who was driving a slow-moving vehicle, trying to get away, out of a -- getting out -- get out of a confrontation with ICE agents, being brutally murdered, shot several times to death, despite the fact that she posed no imminent threat to those ICE agents, and in particular to the ICE agent who murdered her a few days ago.
And I think it's ICE actually that's getting in its own way, and it's ICE that's actually terrorizing people, and it's ICE that's not performing lawful acts there in Minnesota. And so, I think this administration really needs to take a hard look at itself and ask the question, why its conduct in this immigration space, which began at the beginning of this administration and--
URBAN: Yes--
JONES: --as a popular thing, as somewhat of a mandate based on the 2024 election, and has completely, completely ceded ground, and has made it a very unpopular effort.
COLLINS: David, your final thought?
[21:45:00]
URBAN: Kaitlan, I just got to -- I just got to put -- I just got to push back real quickly on that. She did have a weapon. It was a 2,000- pound car, which she turned into a weapon, the second she stepped on the accelerator and revved the engine. It wasn't a weapon until she turned it into one, and it was unfortunate that that happened.
But she -- it was her decision to do it, her choice. She could have gotten out of the car, obeyed the officers, instead of turning that car into a weapon at that second, putting that officer's life in jeopardy.
COLLINS: Former Congressman--
JONES: Kaitlan, I've got to respond. Those ICE agents did not even identify themselves. The ICE agent hopped in front of that slow-moving vehicle, putting himself in harm's way. And the DHS internal guidelines themselves say that it is never appropriate to use deadly force when someone is unarmed and simply trying to evade even by car. COLLINS: Former congressman, Mondaire Jones. David Urban. We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you both for joining me tonight, though. Really appreciate it.
And up next, I should note, that following the opposition leader giving the President her Nobel Peace Prize today. Venezuela's acting president, yes, that's Maduro's number two, who is still running the country, she also was out speaking today. What she had to say. And my congressional source's response, a Republican, right ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Just over 2,000 miles separated the fight for Venezuela's future today.
Here in Washington, the opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, met with President Trump at the White House, and left him with her Nobel Peace Prize medal.
Meanwhile, in Caracas, Venezuela's acting President, Delcy Rodriguez, who was Nicolas Maduro's second-in-command until a couple of weeks ago, delivered an address to her nation, calling for a diplomatic battle with the United States.
My next source tonight sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Republican congresswoman, Maria Elvira Salazar of Florida.
And thank you for being here.
Do you believe that Machado should have given the President her Nobel Peace Prize today? And if so, why do you think she should have?
REP. MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR (R-FL): Well, thank you for the opportunity.
I think that was a very good step on her part, because remember that President Trump was the one who decided to liberate her country from the communist and the Chavista oppression.
So, it was just a token of appreciation that Maria Corina Machado had with the President, just to thank him, and not only on behalf of herself, but on behalf of the whole Venezuelan people who are elated by what the President did, in liberating them from the oppression that Delcy and Maduro represent.
COLLINS: Yes, we've seen many Venezuelans happy that Maduro is no longer in power.
Do you think that this gesture should change the President's view of whether or not Machado should run Venezuela?
ELVIRA SALAZAR: Well, I think not only the gesture, but herself. She has earned her position. She is the leader of the opposition movement within Venezuela. She was the one who was able to prove to the international community that the opposition won that election in July of 2024 against Maduro. And against all odds, after Maduro had signed the Barbados agreement with the Biden administration, promising the international community that he was going to allow for free and fair elections, and he lied. So, he did not follow his word, he did not fulfill his commitment.
And Maria Corina was able, as you know, was able, to produce the tallies to prove to everybody that they had won that election in 70 to 30. So, it was the first time that this lady had the opportunity to explain to the President, face to face, for him to be able to understand who she is, that she had spent 16 months hiding in a tunnel, because Maduro wanted to kill her, and now is her time to prove not only to the President, but to the rest of the world, that she is ready to be back in Caracas and command and rule that country.
COLLINS: Does that mean you want to see the President come out and now support her?
ELVIRA SALAZAR: Well, I would like to -- I think that the President had said clearly that there will be a transition, and there will be democratic elections, and elections in Venezuela. I think the President should -- is doing exactly what we need, what we expect him to do, which is to support a democratic transition and free and fair elections, and have the Venezuelans decide who they want to run the country.
I do believe that the Venezuelans, once again, will vote for her, since they did 70 to 30. Remember that she was--
COLLINS: Yes.
ELVIRA SALAZAR: --by 95 percent, she was chosen as the primary -- as the choice in the primaries to be -- to be that they are running -- to be the presidential nominee on the opposition side.
COLLINS: Yes. And obviously, we'll see what happens there. They haven't -- the White House hasn't said when they believe those elections could take place.
And speaking of democratic elections and free and fair elections. The President was asked, last night, in an interview with Reuters, about the midterms that, as you know, are coming up in November. And he apparently, according to Reuters, boasted that he had accomplished so much. He said, When you think of it, we shouldn't even have an election.
And today, at the White House, Karoline Leavitt, the press secretary, was asked about that comment. And this is what she told reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President was simply joking.
He was saying, We're doing such a great job. We're doing everything the American people thought. Maybe we should just keep rolling.
But he was speaking facetiously.
ANDREW FEINBERG, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE INDEPENDENT: Are you saying that the President finds the idea of canceling elections funny?
LEAVITT: Andrew, were you in the room? No, you weren't. I was in the room. I heard the conversation. And only someone like you would take that so seriously and pose it as a question in that way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you think it's a joke?
ELVIRA SALAZAR: Are you -- are you asking me?
COLLINS: Yes, Congresswoman. Do you think it's a--
ELVIRA SALAZAR: I'm sorry.
COLLINS: --the President was joking?
[21:55:00]
ELVIRA SALAZAR: No. I do believe -- I mean, the President is not -- it's not -- and I wasn't there and I did not see the interview. But I do know that the President is going to follow the Constitution, and we know that we will have elections in November of 2026, and I will be one of those going -- being on the ballot. We have a very serious, solid and firm electoral system in this country, which is the same one that we would like to see in Venezuela.
I'm sure the President did not mean it. And I'm sure that we will have no doubt about, 435 members of Congress will either come back or not, according to the voters and the constituents.
COLLINS: Congresswoman--
ELVIRA SALAZAR: Me being one of them.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar, thank you for joining us tonight.
ELVIRA SALAZAR: Of course. Thanks to you for the opportunity.
COLLINS: And up next. There's a question about that rebrand that is happening at the Pentagon. What's it going to cost taxpayers? Apparently, a lot.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, we are learning just how expensive it could be to rebrand the Defense Department as the Department of War under President Trump's executive order. According to the Congressional Budget Office, it could cost up to a $125 million. The CBO says that a spending report that was obtained by the department shows nearly $2 million has already been spent on new flags, new plaques, new identification badges, new updated training materials.
The Pentagon is still moving ahead, even though any permanent and legal name change, of course, as we know, has to be enacted by Congress.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
