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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump: "Progress" Made With FBI Involvement In Guthrie Case; New Video Disputes Initial DHS Account Of Chicago Shooting; WSJ Details "Constant Chaos" Inside Noem's DHS. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired February 13, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: But now, some in the industry can't help but wonder, if that openness, if that accessibility, might have put the Guthrie family at more risk. It is just one of many questions, many unknowns, relating to this awful story.
Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes. Well, our thoughts are certainly with Savannah and her entire family.
Brian, thank you very much.
That's it for us. I hope you have a good weekend.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, an update in the search for Nancy Guthrie, as investigators now have DNA evidence in their possession.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, there's been a surge of investigative leads, but none so far have led authorities to 84-year-old Nancy Guthrie, or the individual or individuals who abducted her from her home, two weeks ago tomorrow night.
The Pima County Sheriff's Office, and the Sheriff himself spoke with CNN's Ed Lavandera in what was actually his first on-camera update in more than a week, where he revealed that investigators are actively chasing 30,000 leads to find Nancy Guthrie, at least one of which might be critical tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The DNA tests that have been done. Has anything come back and pointed toward--
SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: Yes.
LAVANDERA: --anyone in particular? NANOS: Well, no, we have DNA. So, trust me, if we knew who it was, we'd be on it. But we do have some DNA, and we are continuing to work with those with the lab on that DNA analysis.
LAVANDERA: Is that DNA that you have, you believe might be the suspect's?
NANOS: Well--
LAVANDERA: It just doesn't match anyone in a lab or--
NANOS: What we have is we have some DNA, and we don't know whose it is. So, we'll keep looking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: They are going to keep looking, as the Sheriff said there. His office says, that DNA was collected from Nancy Guthrie's property. It does not match Nancy Guthrie, or her family, or anyone else who had been in close contact with her.
They would not say exactly where that DNA was recovered. But the Sheriff said more, about where other potential evidence was found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANOS: There's never been a glove found at that home, in that home, or around that home. This glove was found the other day. And it was found by a search team, that that's their job, is to go out and search that area and expand that search. But it was two miles away from the house.
And it was a tip. It was a lead. We're not going to just dismiss that lead. You call us, you tell us, we're going to go out and we're going to take it seriously. And that evidence is processed. Today, we've gone out five, 10 miles because we found a glove. Everybody's finding gloves. We've got gloves, 10 miles out. I can't dismiss that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It's still not confirmed if any of those gloves are the same ones that were worn by the armed individual that you see here, the suspect, at Nancy Guthrie's front door, the night that she was taken from her home.
And as the search is now about to enter its third week, there are still so many unknowns tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: How many hours of video do you have at this moment?
NANOS: Oh, I couldn't tell you.
LAVANDERA: Have you been able to figure out what route the suspect drove through the neighborhood to get to Nancy Guthrie's house?
NANOS: No, I -- no. All those things and possibilities are looked at. But yes, I couldn't tell you.
LAVANDERA: Do you believe that the suspect's car has been captured on some video that you have?
NANOS: We hope so, but we don't know that.
LAVANDERA: Do you think the suspect acted alone?
NANOS: I -- look, you have the video in front of you that I have.
LAVANDERA: Right.
NANOS: That's all I can say.
LAVANDERA: That's all you have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And as President Trump was leaving the White House to head to North Carolina today, he was asked by reporters about this case after he weighed in about a week ago, and who it is that is taking the lead on this investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Why hasn't the FBI taken over the Nancy Guthrie case as the lead investigator? Do you have any updates on how that's going?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, they took it over originally. You know, it was a local case originally, and they didn't want to let go of it, which is fine; it's up to them. It's really up to the community. But ultimately, when the FBI got involved, I think, you know, progress has been made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And CNN's Ed Lavandera joins me now from Tucson.
And Ed, obviously, you were asking all the right questions, all the questions that everyone has about this case, to the Sheriff earlier. What else did he tell you about the state of this investigation?
LAVANDERA: Well, one of the reasons I think the Sheriff came out and spoke today is because of these reports suggesting that his office had withheld key evidence from the FBI, specifically that DNA evidence. And the Sheriff really strongly pushing back on all of that.
We've heard from one source who confirmed the reports of the withholding evidence. We also heard from another source who said that all of this -- these stories were simply overblown in this situation.
[21:05:00]
But the Sheriff insists that from the very beginning, FBI agents have been working alongside Sheriff's deputies, in this investigation. And we asked him more about that today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANOS: The story that, Well, the FBI wasn't plugged in right away.
They were plugged in right away. That morning. We knew what their capabilities were. Why? Because we've always worked with them. We had people assigned way before this case, we've had people assigned to work at their office, at their building, and that's been for years, and it's because we have a good working relationship.
We are going to work this case as a team with our partners. There is no egos. Nobody's the lead. It is, Find Nancy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: So Kaitlan, we really wanted to kind of keep the focus on what is ultimately the most important thing here, and that is finding Nancy Guthrie.
And he did say that because of the video that was released several days ago, of this suspect at that front door, it's generated, as you mentioned off the top, tens of thousands of leads. And the Sheriff did say that they have some good ones to go on there, but they continue to work all that.
And it's not clear how close they are. We really couldn't get any clear indication, or kind of a peek into just how close they might be to finding where she might be, and, more importantly, who the suspect is, in this case.
COLLINS: Yes.
Ed Lavandera, appreciate that interview, and at least trying to ask these questions, finding out what we -- what they do know with the authorities over there.
My legal and investigative sources are also here tonight to help break all of this down. What you heard from the Sheriff there.
Joey Jackson, criminal defense attorney.
Elie Honig, former federal prosecutor.
And of course, John Miller, our Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst.
John, what else do you make of what, not only we heard from the Sheriff there, but how this is playing out today, and what we've heard from today?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, having DNA collected from people who have a reason to be there, people who are expected to be there, around the house, family members, maintenance workers, gives you a good bank to start with elimination.
Having DNA from an unknown subject, that's another plus, which is, you run it through CODIS. Obviously, it's not a hit, or they would have a name. But if you get a suspect, now you have something to compare against them, especially if it's a suspect who said, I never touched that or I was never in that house.
As far as this, who should be the lead investigator? This is right now, a state violation, not a federal crime. This is a case, where the FBI is there for the expressed purpose of assisting local law enforcement. And until the moment comes where they say, These kidnappers crossed state lines, or took the victim across state lines, when it becomes a federal crime? The Sheriff's office is technically in the lead.
Now, that doesn't mean anything. The FBI is bringing everything they have. And the Sheriff is bringing everything they have. And there'll always be discussions about where certain evidence should go, or being handled. But I don't see any split or a divide there.
COLLINS: So, these reports, in case people have seen them, you're not reading too much into, to -- the question the President was asked, about the division of FBI or State--
MILLER: Right.
COLLINS: --or who's kind of running the--
MILLER: The Sheriff said it very well, We're running it together.
And they are. And I've spoken to people on the FBI side and said, How's that going? And they've said, It's going fine. There's always these things. I've been in these -- I've been in these investigations, where we've had these disagreements. You work through them. But it's not a thing, where there's some divide that's affecting the case going forward.
COLLINS: Yes.
And Elie, I know you're familiar with how the DNA databases kind of work. I mean, there's not just one grand database that has everyone's DNA, obviously. How does that work in terms of this? Because Nancy Guthrie lived in this house for a long time. I think people might hear that and say, Oh, well, they've got DNA. But we don't really know exactly who it could be.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, so we learned a lot of really important information just now. The fact that they have recovered DNA in the house that they don't know whose it is, so, it's not Nancy Guthrie's, it's not some other known person, is really significant.
Now, the first thing you're going to do, John referenced CODIS. That is the Combined DNA System for across the country. And what it does is it brings together all 50 states' DNA database. Now, who's in there? Mostly arrestees. There are laws in most states saying, if you're arrested for certain crimes, violent crimes, you have to get DNA swabbed on the way in. You also can put yourself in there, voluntarily, put a child in there for security reasons. There's about 25 million or so profiles in CODIS in that system. So, that's a lot, but it's also less than--
COLLINS: Not that many. Right.
HONIG: --less than 10 percent of the entire population.
The other thing that law enforcement can do, and John, I don't know if they've done this, is there are genealogy companies out there that are very popular, right? 23andMe and others. Some of -- they have different policies as to whether they will share your DNA or not. But law enforcement has made cases through those companies.
[21:10:00]
And then finally, if they get a suspect, you're going to want a DNA sample. Now, you can ask for a voluntary sample. But if the person declines, you go get a search warrant, and you force them. And again, it's a cheek -- internal cheek swab. So, there's still important steps that they have to run down to figure out if that DNA sample is a hit with anybody.
Oh, the other thing. Now, we have the ability to do it by family relations. So, you might be able to say, This is not a direct hit, but we know that this is the son of the person who's in the database, or the brother.
COLLINS: And they could go through that.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, what happens though, Joey, if they're not in any database?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: So then you have a problem. I think there's a couple of things that are significant. And when you talk about DNA. It's search warrants. Obviously, those are very important.
But a lot of times -- and you know, John, Elie knows this too -- police, law enforcement will sit on a location, right? There are things, there are trash, there are other things, where you could obtain DNA. So, it's not necessarily that you get it the other way--
COLLINS: Like if someone threw away a piece of trash--
JACKSON: Correct.
COLLINS: --they could then pick it up.
JACKSON: Very important, right? Or they'll say, Hey, have some coffee, or have some water. And they'll get it that way. But DNA, obviously critical. CSI: Miami, it's the coup de brave, what you are going to determine and detect who it is.
But surveillance is very important too, right? That's why there was a request made for accompanying, really, locations, neighbors, et cetera, to submit. Look at those Ring doorbells, because you can get the surveillance video and determine from the surveillance video who it might be.
Additionally, you remember we talked about that backpack. Remember when we had Steve (ph) Moore here? He was talking about, Hey, there are these barcodes, and the barcodes are going to reflect, did you get it at Walmart? Did you get it from Amazon? How did you actually get this? And then you could identify that to the specific store. You look at the surveillance video, and bingo, there's the individual that's there.
So DNA, very important. But there are other measures which are significant. And I think that surveillance that they're asking for, very important.
HONIG: If I can just add to that. You'd be amazed what manufacturers can track. I had a case once where someone had put the remains of a person in a garbage bag, a big black garbage bag. And we figured out -- I figured what company, Hefty or something, they were able to tell us where that lot was shipped to. So, you can do a lot with information like that about the backpack.
JACKSON: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: What do you mean where the lot was shipped to?
HONIG: You know there's -- what locations?
COLLINS: Where -- what was produced, where it was sold?
HONIG: Yes, that that lot was in a shipment that went to somewhere in Central Jersey, which was around the area where we expected it to be.
COLLINS: Yes. But, I mean, the biggest thing that we've gotten this week were the pictures of this person at Nancy Guthrie's door. I know that they've said Google and Nest are trying to recover anything else they can from other cameras at her house.
MILLER: Well, that's a big deal.
COLLINS: Is that likely? What do you think?
MILLER: So--
COLLINS: How are you reading into that?
MILLER: Most households that have a Nest system are not limited to one camera at the door. There's going to be a camera inside the garage or outside the garage, one attached to maybe that flood light. There may be interior cameras.
The same techniques that they used to unearth this deleted material, which wasn't supposed to be saved, it was just supposed to be recorded over, if they can apply that to other cameras? They can learn, first of all, we may see inside the house during the crime. That's one possibility.
You may see whether a second offender was let in from the back or another entrance. That's another possibility. You may see if somebody sneezed on something, touched something, removed a glove. There may be other opportunities from that to recover other DNA or evidence inside.
And we may not ever see that picture unless the authorities determine there's something in here that people could recognize. If it's just more stuff of the same guy in the same mask, maybe not.
But the idea that it was recovered in this case, and more could be recovered from the other sensors could be really important.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, the Sheriff seemed to kind of downplay the gloves. I mean, it was hard to read into it. He was just saying, We have a lot of stuff that we're looking through. But he was saying, Some of these gloves were found two miles away. Some where we're being called about were found 10 miles away.
I mean, that's one question, I think, in terms of how significant that was in terms of how we saw it yesterday.
JACKSON: I think so, Kaitlan. I think a couple of things, right? The first thing is, you manage expectations. Certainly gloves, the finding of them, very significant, very relevant, right? John Miller has talked about how they broaden the investigation to look at other places, and what they can unearth.
Now, are those gloves related in any way? Well, that's going to be determined, because they'll do the DNA analysis, and they'll say, Hey, is this either going to be a determination made that they're connected or they're not. So, I think a lot of that is managing expectations.
But gloves are critical, and could be a very critical source of information in the event that they're tested, which they are, and that they reveal other information.
MILLER: Right.
HONIG: Ed Lavandera did a great job in that interview.
COLLINS: He had so many good questions that I think are--
HONIG: Yes--
COLLINS: --all the questions that we wanted to know.
JACKSON: Yes.
HONIG: Absolutely.
But I'm going to be a little bit critical of the Sheriff here. I don't like the Sheriff saying, Essentially, we know nothing about the vehicle. We know nothing about various things.
Because, then whoever did this may get a sense of complacency, a sense of, OK, I don't need to do anything.
There's a technique called churning the water sometimes, right? You go out there and you hope that somebody gets panicky and jumpy, maybe does something, maybe tries something, maybe someone turns them in.
[21:15:00]
But if someone's watching this and saying that -- you can easily watch that interview and conclude, there's a lot they don't know? You're more likely to just sit tight and hope it blows -- it's not going to blow over. But just sit tight and not make a scene.
So, I don't love that technique by the Sheriff.
COLLINS: What do you think, John?
MILLER: I think it cuts both ways. I think if you get a tip about the vehicle and the person thinks, I don't need to dump this car, they don't know anything about it?
HONIG: Sure.
MILLER: That works in your favor.
It's just these investigations ebb and flow and can turn on a dime. You can wake up Monday morning with nothing, and at 01:45 p.m. get the clue that tips the whole thing. Or, it can be a long, torturous process where one leads to another, to another, and the picture comes together. They just -- they go the way they go.
COLLINS: Yes. We'll see what happens next.
Joey Jackson. Elie Honig. And John Miller. Great to have all of you here tonight.
And as we say every night, if you have any information, at all, about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, please call the FBI. You can do so at 1-800-CALL-FBI. They appreciate all those tips.
Up next. What they said versus what the video shows. It's a familiar territory for DHS. And now, ICE officers are under investigation, accused of potentially lying about the shooting of a Venezuelan man in Minneapolis. We'll tell you everything next.
Also, there's new reporting on the constant chaos coming out of the Department of Homeland Security, including a pilot who was punished after he forgot Secretary Kristi Noem's blanket?
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, a pair of ICE agents are under investigation after being accused of lying about a shooting that happened of a man in Minneapolis. Last month, you might remember this story, the agents claimed that two men had attacked them with a broom and a shovel as they were carrying out an immigration operation. One of the men was shot in the leg by an officer.
And when that happened, obviously it raised questions. Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, came out and said it was, quote, "An attempted murder of federal law enforcement." She accused the Governor, Tim Walz in Minnesota, the Mayor, Jacob Frey, of encouraging assaults against law enforcement.
And also, the same day that she put out that statement, she was at the White House, and said this about ICE agents in Minneapolis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Every single action that our ICE officers take is according to the law and following protocols that we have used for years, that this administration has used, that the previous administration used. They are doing everything correctly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK. Well, given that, we've now learned the Justice Department has actually dropped charges against those two men. And in a turn of events, they are now being investigated because they are being accused of lying under oath about what happened. There's video evidence, apparently, that contradicts what they said actually occurred.
And this is just the latest case, where the initial description that we get from the Trump administration, after a shooting, like this has happened, has fallen apart, once all the facts have come out. Obviously, the highest profile examples of this, I don't have to remind you of. You remember it yourself. Renee Good, Alex Pretti, both accused of being domestic terrorists, before we saw all the different video angles of what happened when they were killed at the hands of federal agents.
There's also the case of Marimar Martinez in Chicago. Just this week, CNN obtained the body camera footage from October, when the American citizen and school teacher was shot five times by a Border Patrol agent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER: Do something (bleep).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. You're fine now. All right. Out of the car.
OFFICER: Be advised. We've been struck. We've been struck.
(GUNSHOTS)
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: Now, the Department of Homeland Security had initially said that, Border Patrol law enforcement officers were ambushed by domestic terrorists that rammed federal agents with their vehicles.
The FBI Director posted, Attack our law enforcement, and this FBI will find you and bring you to justice.
Once the evidence came out, federal prosecutors asked for that case to be dropped.
My congressional source tonight is a Democratic congressman from Florida, Maxwell Frost.
And thank you for being here.
Because I think, not only as a member of Congress, but also the public generally, how important is it, to be able to trust what you are hearing about an official account from the Department of Homeland Security?
REP. MAXWELL FROST (D-FL): It's very important. It's important for our people to be able to trust their government. And obviously, that integrity and that trust has been completely thrown out the window under the Trump administration.
From HHS to DHS, almost every single agency you can think of, the heads of those agencies aren't concerned with how we bring back integrity to our government, and how we can ensure our people trust our government. But they just want to do the bidding of Donald Trump, and they also want to ensure that they're providing cover for everything they do, that they make zero mistakes, that everything that they do is perfect.
And that's exactly what we've seen with Kristi Noem. That, within minutes or seconds of these instances happening, she takes to social media to call these people domestic terrorists, when in every single instance that we've seen so far, there's been video unearthed that shows that, in many cases, the officers have lied.
And I think it's obviously a huge disservice to our nation. But when the people can't trust their government, that is the sign of a backslide in democracy, and it's part of the reason why people like Kristi Noem should not be in these positions anymore.
COLLINS: In the case of the men, where they said that they were attacked with, and ambushed with a broom and a shovel, the Justice Department has dropped the charges. DHS says they're investigating these officers for lying under oath about this. They're facing potential criminal charges.
If the administration said, Well, look, this is how we corrected it, this is how we fixed it. What would you say to that?
[21:25:00]
FROST: I'd say, it's not enough, because we can't trust the administration to do this. We just can't trust them to investigate themselves, because they've shown us time and time and -- again, over the last -- over a year, that they're not interested in justice and they're interested in covering their own asses every single point, from the Epstein investigation, to ICE and DHS and what's going on.
And it's part of the reason why one of our demands, we have to have external investigations of all these instances, because they're a microcosm, they're examples of how, really, the entire department is completely flawed right now, under the leadership of Kristi Noem.
COLLINS: Who do you want to carry out those external investigations?
FROST: I think this is not a normal time. And usually, it is not for the United States Congress. They go through every single thing. But I think especially in instances of some of these more high-profile ones, I do think the United States Congress needs to open up investigations into some of these. Because again, they are examples and microcosms that really expand out to what we're seeing across the entire country right now. And so, I do think the Oversight Committee would be a committee to do that.
COLLINS: Obviously, ICE funding and the Department of Homeland Security funding overall has become a huge sticking point on Capitol Hill. They have $75 billion for the next four years because of a bill, legislation that's already passed.
I think, given that, some people might ask, How do you explain a vote that doesn't actually block that ICE funding, because they already have it. It would block money to pay TSA agents, FEMA workers, Coast Guard members. I mean, obviously, people that would be indirectly, or directly affected, not intentionally so, but they would be directly affected by this. How would you justify your vote to those people?
FROST: Well, number one, in the House of Representatives, the Republicans don't need my vote to pass a bill that they want to pass. If they want my vote, they're going to have to do -- they're going to have to go with the demands that we put forth, to help change what's going on with DHS and ICE.
If we want to talk about consequences. Alex Pretti, Renee Nicole Good, people who are being shot and killed across this country, and our neighbors who are being terrorized in our communities as we speak. Those are the consequences about what's -- of the recklessness of DHS and ICE right now. And House Democrats are using our power and the power of the purse to say, Enough is enough, that people have spoken.
We see poll after poll, that people say, this administration have gone way too far as it relates to this, I don't call it, mass deportation. It's a mass kidnapping campaign of our own neighbors. And so, we're representing our constituents by saying, No.
We know that through the Big, Beautiful Bill that they passed to give ICE essentially unlimited amounts of resources, and give huge tax breaks to billionaires at the cost of health care for working people. We know they did that last year. But what we're saying is, we're not going to give them a penny more to do what we've seen over the last year.
COLLINS: Congressman Maxwell Frost, thank you for joining me tonight.
FROST: Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: And speaking of what's going on inside the Department of Homeland Security. There is a new report that talks about the constant chaos. And it is basically blaming all of this on Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, and one of her senior advisers. And that incident involving a blanket on a plane, and what happened after it went missing. That's next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is facing questions about his confidence in Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, after her leadership was described as constant chaos, in a deeply-reported piece in The Wall Street Journal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you look at Homeland Security, if you look at what they've done, if you look at what ICE has done, and Border Patrol, we have the safest border in the history of our country. Nobody comes in other than if they come in legally.
REPORTER: Do you have confidence in Kristi Noem, Mr. President?
TRUMP: Yes. I do. I do.
REPORTER: Are you--
TRUMP: We have safe borders. We have low crime numbers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President standing by Kristi Noem, as this new report in The Journal focus is not only on the Secretary herself, but also her top adviser, Corey Lewandowski, with the entire article kind of summed up, really, by this one anecdote, where Lewandowski fired a Coast Guard pilot after Secretary Noem's blanket was left behind on a plane.
The Journal reports in the blanket incident, Noem had to switch planes after a maintenance issue was discovered, but her blanket wasn't moved to the second plane. The Coast Guard pilot was initially fired and told to take a commercial flight home when they reached their destination. However, and get this, they eventually reinstated the pilot, according to The Journal, because no one else was available to fly them home.
Speaking to the bigger picture within the Department of Homeland Security, The Journal reports that Noem and Lewandowski frequently berate senior level staff, give polygraph test to employees they don't trust. And it says, the Secretary closely monitors how her national profile compares with other officials in the administration. For example, The Journal says, Secretary Noem routinely berated staff, if she saw the President's Border Czar, Tom Homan, on TV, and kept track of both of their appearances to make sure that she was on TV more than he was.
The Department of Homeland Security, throughout this article, and you should read the entire thing for yourself, repeated several denials of the instances that were detailed in the article. Notably, in regards to the pilot I mentioned, who was fired briefly for forgetting her blanket, there was not a denial. The Journal says they did not address that one.
My political sources are here. That includes:
Former New York Mayor, Bill de Blasio.
And also, our Republican strategist, Shermichael Singleton.
Shermichael, does that sound like what you want to hear from the person who is in charge of the Department of Homeland Security?
[21:35:00]
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I mean, is he fired? Was he not fired? Fired for five minutes? I don't really -- I don't know.
But there's always one rule of thumb. And the Mayor know this as being a former executive himself of the largest city in the country. You don't ever want people you appoint to become the story.
Now, maybe you appoint someone because you're fond of them, which the President is clearly fond of Kristi Noem. He has a rich history with Corey Lewandowski. So, I understand the relationship there. But at some point, even the President is going to not want to see these constant negative stories getting ahead of the work that he wants to see coming from individuals, like the Secretary and other appointees.
And with midterms coming up, this is a distraction. You don't want to give this type of fodder for your opposition to run against Republicans who are going to be running in tight races. So, you got to think beyond just this one individual, but you got to start thinking about the implications for the party writ large.
And I think at some point, the President is going to probably look at it that way. And so, if I'm Kristi Noem, she got to get her stuff together pretty quickly here, she might be on a pretty tight rope.
COLLINS: Mr. Mayor?
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Kristi Noem will not be in that role by the end of this year. I'm quite convinced of that.
Look, Blanketgate's bad enough, but really--
COLLINS: I mean, have you ever heard anything like that?
DE BLASIO: No. I've heard a lot of things--
COLLINS: I'd love to speak to the pilot in that situation and what his thoughts were--
DE BLASIO: Yes.
COLLINS: --coming in--
DE BLASIO: And by the way, as someone who's serving in our military, serving our country, and he's going to get fired because he's forgot a blanket? Come on. That's bad enough.
But really, the issue with her is Minneapolis. She governed over what is arguably the biggest mistake of the many mistakes of this administration, the biggest, most egregious mistake, the one that angered the most Americans, most profoundly, in terms of just destruction of American liberty, taking of lives of people who were protesting and exercising their constitutional rights. And then, she was not only unapologetic, she called the victims, terrorists.
Kristi Noem has become a liability to this administration. It reminds me in the James Bond movies, where the villain calls the employee before them, and then pushes a button and they -- you know, the employee falls through the floor into the shark tank? That's what's going to happen to Kristi Noem here. She has become a liability. And even for Trump, who I think does have some sense of loyalty to people who have been with him, he can read the room. She's actually hurting the administration at this point.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, we'll see. I mean. Because I think, to your point, this story has those kind of anecdotes about the blanket, but it does speak to the larger point of how DHS is being run and what, obviously, the employees there think.
Shermichael, can I also ask you though, about something that the President posted on social media. And this might be a moment, we are talking about six months from now, as we're getting closer to the midterms.
He wrote on social media and said, There will be Voter I.D. for the Midterm Elections -- this is the line that stood out to me -- whether approved by Congress or not. He says, People of our Country are insisting on Citizenship, and No Mail-In Ballots, with exceptions for Military, Disability, Illness, or Travel.
I think the line, Approved by Congress or not, is what people are looking at and saying, Wait, hold on a second.
SINGLETON: Yes, look, I think this is sort of some hyperbole from the President. I'm not aware of any constitutional authority the executive branch would have to usurp Congress' legislative role in deciding these types of cases. We have the SAVE Act, H.R.22 before Congress. It's 26-page bill. I'd recommend our audience of the American people to take a look at it. I think they're going to get the votes potentially in the Senate to pass this thing. So, let Congress do their job.
The Republican voters didn't just vote for Donald Trump. They also voted for members in the House and in the Senate to support Donald Trump's legislative agenda. And if they're not doing that, considering how tight things are in the House right now, then those results may not bode very well for Republicans, come this November.
So, while the President certainly has the bully pulpit to do what he can, I think Republican voters are probably going to start putting some pressure, Kaitlan, on some of those Republicans, saying, Look, we want you to support the President by passing this legislation.
I think most Americans, including by most polling I've seen, generally support the idea of sort of verifying who you are in order to vote. And I know there's some more nuances to this than my Democratic friends, like the Mayor, will probably point out to disagree, and that's fine. We can have that conversation a different day.
But if I'm -- Republicans, you can't afford to lose three or four of those races that are very tight. Some of them are in purple districts. Some of them are in places like New York, where Democrats are preparing to spend a lot of money to out-seat some of those members. You got to do what the President wants, you got to do what the Republican voters expect. And I'm not seeing that right now.
COLLINS: I mean, but the President is saying that if they can't get it through Congress, he's talking about presenting an executive order. I mean, he's tried to do executive orders before on voting, requiring voters to provide citizen -- citizenship documents, to be able to vote. Judges rejected that, wholesale.
[21:40:00]
But I think between that and the President saying he wants to nationalize elections, that's really the question that a lot of people are going to have about what exactly he intends to do before November, if he's worried he's going to lose.
DE BLASIO: Look, states are not going to put up with it. We're seeing more and more restiveness in the Republican Party. We're seeing more and more Independents starting to break out. In the end, people at the state level want their prerogatives respected. An executive order is not going to stop them from running their own state elections, their own way.
But what this is also saying to us is the level of desperation in the White House about the midterms. What they're trying to do here, if they could get any of these type of changes made, would be to inhibit voting. And who are they trying to inhibit? Lower-income folks, younger folks, people who are newer in the country. They're scared they're going to lose the midterms, they're throwing everything they got at it, and the people can obviously see through that.
COLLINS: We'll see.
Bill de Blasio. Shermichael Singleton. SINGLETON: Well I think--
COLLINS: We're out of time, Shermichael. We'll have you back for our different discussion on a different day.
SINGLETON: It's OK.
COLLINS: Thank you both for joining us tonight.
Coming up. We do have an update on the search for Nancy Guthrie. There's very few people who know the anguish that the Guthrie family is feeling tonight, Savannah, her siblings, everyone. My next source, though, is one of them. Ed Smart's daughter Elizabeth Smart was abducted. He'll join me, right after this.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: As this intense search for Nancy Guthrie is now nearing the two-week mark, her neighbors in Tucson are continuing to rally in support of her safe return.
At Tucson news station, where Savannah Guthrie had one of her first journalism jobs, put up a massive banner, reading, Bring her home. There's also a memorial of candles, roses, ribbons outside of her home. Of course, as you can see here, it's teaming with yellow, which represents hope.
As the Guthrie family is so anxiously awaiting answers, my next guest understands their anguish and pain all too well. Ed Smart's daughter, Elizabeth, was kidnapped from her Utah home in 2002, when she was just 14-years-old. She was held captive for nine months before police were able to rescue her and reunite her with her family. And Ed joins me now.
And Ed, I'm just so grateful to have you here, because I can't even imagine the memories, awful memories this brings back for you and your family. I wonder, though, given your rare perspective, what you make of what you've seen and heard in the circumstances of this case, as everyone is just heartbroken for what the Guthrie family is going through tonight.
ED SMART, FATHER OF ELIZABETH SMART: I'm sure that they are in survival mode at the moment.
You know, there are so many ups and downs during the course of the investigation, and moments of hope. And you get to a point, where you try to protect yourself from that roller coaster, because the ups are wonderful, the downs are really bad. And so, the roller coaster of emotion is really a difficult thing to deal with.
I'm hoping that they're really taking care of themselves, getting enough rest. I went on an anti-depressant during mine initially, and it just affected me.
COLLINS: Yes.
SMART: It just made me go crazy.
So, I'm hoping that they're really taking care of themselves. I think hope is such an important thing to have at this point. In so many cases, the majority of cases, an abduction occurs within a 25-mile radius of the home. And so, there -- I feel like there's still a very good chance that she's around, and I'm certainly hoping for the best for their family.
COLLINS: Yes. We're all praying for that every single day, saying, anyone who has information should call in.
I wonder what you make of what it's like, of this happening now, in this day and age. Because, one thing someone was saying to me the other day is there's got to be just a surplus of footage of Ring cameras, Nest cameras, that people have so commonly on their homes these days, to show a car driving by, or hopefully some kind of investigative clue. Compared to what this moment was like for you and your family in 2002.
SMART: I think back at our -- at our time, they didn't -- ours was the first AMBER Alert to go out in Utah. And there were things that law enforcement tried to do, but they -- most people are -- most law enforcement agencies are not equipped to deal with an abduction. It's usually something that happens very rarely, so they're not prepared.
And I'm glad to see that the FBI seems to be working together. I think that that is really critical, to have all the law enforcement agencies come to bear on this case, because they need everyone. And to not have everyone on the same page is very difficult for the family.
To hear that the community is supporting the Guthries, I think, is a huge point of importance. It's not only keeping your eyes out, but also being there. Lois and I had, when we would go down and we would see all these people that were volunteering, it gave us the greatest hope that--
COLLINS: Yes.
SMART: --Elizabeth would be found and she would be brought home.
And I'm sure, seeing the support that they have garnered gives them great hope. And I'm just hoping that things move forward and this comes to an end for the family.
COLLINS: Being in the Tucson area, not far from this, where all this is happening, I wonder what that's like for you, and in this moment.
[21:50:00]
SMART: I -- I mean, I'm glad to be here. I've tried to be of help, and I -- it's not -- it's not a big issue for me. I mean, certainly, I might double-check the doors a little bit more than usual.
But it's -- I think to have an abduction of this sort, I'm just blown away that anyone would think of taking an elderly woman--
COLLINS: Yes.
SMART: --and certainly one that's in her condition. Elizabeth was in fairly good health.
But your mind focuses on, what could they be going through? How are they surviving? Why did the captors do this? All of those questions just keep going over and over in your mind. And many, many sleepless nights. So, I'm really hoping their family's doing something to help themselves on that.
COLLINS: Yes.
Ed Smart, I really appreciate you taking the time to join me tonight. Thank you for coming on.
SMART: Absolutely. Thank you.
COLLINS: Of course, we're all keeping the Guthrie family in our thoughts, our prayers.
Up next, in Washington, this week, we're going to take you behind the scenes of what happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: From lawmakers getting their first look at the unredacted Epstein files to Pam Bondi's fiery hearing on Capitol Hill. Here's a look behind the scenes this week in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Karoline.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, February 9.
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Maxwell didn't say -- her attorney said she would answer questions if she was granted clemency by--
REP. ANDY BIGGS (R-AZ): By the--
COMER: By the President--
BIGGS: President Trump.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Donald Trump's name is all over these files, thousands and thousands of times.
COLLINS: Kash Patel testified previously. He said, they uncovered no credible information about Epstein trafficking underage girls to anyone besides himself.
Given what you saw today, does that testimony ring true to you still? REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): No, the FBI's own documents from 2019 list Leslie Wexner as a co-conspirator in a child sex trafficking case. They've got some explaining to do.
COLLINS: Does that mean you think Kash Patel perjured himself?
MASSIE: What we see tonight is the charge that Les Wexner was a co- conspirator to was child sex trafficking.
COLLINS: So, you're saying that should be investigated, basically, by the Justice Department?
MASSIE: Should absolutely be investigated.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, February 10.
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: I met Jeffrey Epstein when I moved to a house next door to him in New York. I did not have any relationship with him.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Did you, in fact, make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island?
LUTNICK: I did have lunch with him, as I was on a boat, going across, on a family vacation.
COLLINS: I know I'm your favorite person right now. Thank you. Sorry.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Secretary Lutnick remains a very important member of President Trump's team, and the President fully supports the Secretary.
COLLINS: So, the White House is standing by President Trump's Commerce Secretary, who has become one of the highest ranking officials here, at the White House, to face scrutiny over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Because he claimed in multiple interviews that he had cut ties with Jeffrey Epstein, years before he actually had, according to emails that were released by this Justice Department. Now, this comes as the President himself has said he believes the country is ready to move on from the Epstein questions. But it shows just how far-reaching this really is.
I believe you went back to the Justice Department today. If you did, what more can you tell us about what you saw?
MASSIE: As we search through these files, when you unredact some of the files, you encounter more redactions.
COLLINS: But the whole point of letting lawmakers go into that room is that you're supposed to be able to see what we cannot see.
And yet, you're saying even what you're looking at, that is supposed to be unredacted, is still redacted?
MASSIE: Correct. Sometimes, you remove the black redaction, and it's all completely redacted. ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, February 11.
REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): I believe you just lied under oath. There is ample evidence in the Epstein files--
PAM BONDI, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Don't you ever accuse me of a crime.
LIEU: I believe you--
BONDI: If they could maintain their composure. This isn't a circus. This is a hearing.
HONIG: To the Epstein points. Number one, there is zero clarity, as to whether there is or is not an investigation, of anyone else around the Epstein case.
Pam Bondi has said there is, at times. Todd Blanche has said there is not, and it's OK to party with Mr. Epstein. And today we got sort of this admission--
COLLINS: He didn't (ph) say it's OK. He said it's not a crime.
HONIG: He said it's not a crime -- you're right -- not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein. Not a line I'd want attached to me.
COLLINS: The President. You look at how many times he's tried to get other people indicted. Senate Democrats are meeting tomorrow. What do you want your colleagues to do?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): This President, he's not like he was in 2016. To me--
COLLINS: What do you mean?
KELLY: Well, he just feels like a different guy, almost, and there's a level of vindictiveness. And if he perceives you as an enemy, he's going to go after you.
We should have never found ourselves in this position, with this president saying we should be hanged, and then executed, and now prosecuted.
They're trying to demote me, after spending 25 years in the United States Navy, flying 39 combat missions. I flew the space shuttle four times.
They're trying to take away my rank and take away my pay.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, February 12.
TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: I have proposed, and President Trump has concurred, that this surge operation conclude.
A significant drawdown has already been underway this week and will continue to the next week. MAYOR JACOB FREY, (D) MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA: Hey, Kaitlan (inaudible).
COLLINS: Welcome.
How do you see the administration's announcement that they are ending their immigration surge in your city?
[22:00:00]
FREY: Obviously, it's a step in the right direction. I know that there will be hundreds of thousands of people that are extraordinarily relieved, and at the same time, will believe it when we see it.
This has been an operation that has been devastating, even catastrophic, to families, to our immigrant community, to small and local businesses throughout our city.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Thanks for joining us behind the scenes, and for every night here this week on THE SOURCE. We'll see you next week.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
