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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Ex-Prince Andrew Arrested On Suspicion Of Misconduct In Public Office; Trump Warns Iran: Make A Deal Or "Bad Things Will Happen"; Governors Group Skips WH Meeting After Trump Snubs Two Dems. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired February 19, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --it's a really great conversation with Eric Church, and I'm grateful for it. The full podcast is out tonight. You can watch or listen to the full conversation right now with Eric Church wherever you get your podcasts, or on YouTube. You can also watch the entire episode on my grief community site at CNN.com/AllThereIs.
Also, one other programming note before we go. It's about this weekend's edition of my other show, "THE WHOLE STORY." Pamela Brown explores the rise of Christian nationalism and its growing political influence. You can see it Sunday night at 08:00 Eastern Pacific Time. And Monday, also on the CNN app.
That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow.
"THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: First, stripped of his titles. Then evicted from his home. Now arrested over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
It's safe to say, as we come on the air tonight, that it was not a happy birthday for the man formerly known as Prince Andrew. As he turned 66-years-old, he was greeted at 8 o'clock this morning by a surprise swarm of law enforcement, who showed up to arrest him.
With the arrival of that convoy of unmarked police cars, at The Royal Sandringham Estate, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor became the first senior member of the British royal family to be arrested since 1647.
This was Andrew, after 12 hours in custody, slouched in the back of a Range Rover, attempting to hide, it looks like. Though, really, his expression that was captured in this one photo seems to say it all.
British authorities say that the King's brother was detained on suspicion of misconduct in public office. That's a serious offense in the U.K., and if Andrew ends up being charged, which to be clear, he hasn't been yet, it carries a punishment of up to life in prison. Now, police have previously said that they were looking into allegations that the disgraced ex-Prince shared confidential material with Jeffrey Epstein, when he was serving as a British trade envoy in the early 2000s.
Andrew has repeatedly denied all accusations surrounding his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein, including anything involving sexual assault or sex trafficking. One of his most infamous denials actually happened in a remarkable 2019 interview that he did with the BBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMILY MAITLIS, BRITISH JOURNALIST AND FORMER NEWSCASTER: Just for the record, you've been on his private plane.
ANDREW MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR, MEMBER OF THE MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR FAMILY: Yes.
MAITLIS: You've been to stay on his private island.
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: Yes.
MAITLIS: You've stayed at his home in Palm Beach.
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: Yes.
MAITLIS: You visited Ghislaine Maxwell's house in Belgravia in London.
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: Yes.
MAITLIS: You threw a birthday party for Epstein's girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell at Sandringham?
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: No, it was a shooting weekend.
MAITLIS: A shooting weekend.
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: Just a straightforward, a straightforward shooting weekend.
MAITLIS: He threw a party to celebrate his release and you were invited as the guest of honor.
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: No, I didn't go.
Oh, in 2010, there certainly wasn't a party to celebrate his release in December because it was a small dinner party, there were only eight or 10 of us, I think, at the dinner. If there was a party, then I'd know nothing about that.
MAITLIS: You were invited to that dinner as a guest of honor.
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: Well I was there, so there was a dinner. I don't think it was quite as you might put it. But yes, OK, I was there for -- I was there at a dinner, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It's as painful to listen to today, as it was to watch when it was first aired in 2019.
The King responded to what happened today. He had a statement that was pretty stark. It was actually barely more than a 100 words, with King Charles pledging full and wholehearted support for the co-operation, and saying, quote, "The law must take its course." Notably, nowhere in that statement did he refer to Andrew as his brother.
The King then spent the day, trying to carry out his royal duties like it was any other Thursday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Good afternoon, your Majesty. Do you have any reaction to the arrest of your brother, sir?
REPORTER: Your Majesty, how are you feeling after your brother's arrest?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Even by the standards of a family that is deeply familiar with controversy, Andrew's arrest marks a stunning development tonight.
While he may not have been celebrating his birthday, this move was applauded, here in the United States, by survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's, including the family of Virginia Giuffre. She was the first of Epstein's victims to go public, and she claimed repeatedly and steadfastly that she was trafficked to then-Prince Andrew, three times, starting when she was just 16-years-old.
Now, Andrew has long-denied those allegations, and his arrest today is not related to them. It's important to stress that.
But before her death by suicide last year, Virginia Giuffre was asked what she would like to see happen to the men that she says she was trafficked to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIRGINIA GIUFFRE, JEFFREY EPSTEIN VICTIM: They should be named and they should be shamed. What they have done is horrific. They deserve to be locked up.
[21:05:00]
TARA BROWN, AUSTRALIAN TELEVISION PRESENTER: Do you think Prince Andrew should go to jail?
GIUFFRE: I mean, is he ever going to? Probably not. You know, it's really sad that we live in a civilization that we're so modern these days. I mean, there's a lot of intelligent people walking around these days, and I believe there's a lot of good in people too. But I also believe that our society is very corrupt, and, you know, I don't think he'll ever pay for what he's done to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Aboard Air Force One today, the President expressed sympathy for the Royal Family, after Andrew's arrest. Not to Epstein's victims. Though, he did defend himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think people in this country at some point -- associates of Jeffrey Epstein -- will wind up in handcuffs too?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, you know, I'm the expert in a way, because I've been totally exonerated. It's very nice. I can actually speak about it very nicely. I think it's a shame. I think it's very sad. I think it's so bad for the Royal Family. It's very, very sad to me. It's a very sad thing.
It's really interesting, because nobody used to speak about Epstein when he was alive, but now they speak. But I'm the one that can talk about it, because I've been totally exonerated. I did nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And I want to start this evening with the family of Virginia Giuffre. I'm joined tonight by her brother and her sister-in-law, Sky and Amanda Roberts.
And I'm grateful to have the two of you back here with us, especially on a day like today.
And just, I can't even imagine waking up to this headline, what y'all thought, what went through your mind. But Sky, I do wonder, what do you think your sister would have thought about what happened today?
SKY ROBERTS, VIRGINIA GIUFFRE'S BROTHER: I don't even know if I could say that on public television, to be honest with you. But the reality is, is that today would have been a really strong day for vindication for her, but also for her survivor sisters.
And I know that he wasn't arrested in the sense of direct correlation to the allegations with sexual assault against Virginia. But the reality is, is that these are direct ties to Epstein, and how this infrastructure was built. I mean, the inappropriate email exchanges that happened from one person to another, including Andrew, and he's now being held accountable for that.
And so, we woke up today, it was a feeling of vindication for her. But I know what she would say. She would say, You know what happened, and I know what happened, and only one of us is telling the truth, and I know that's me. And that so famously was said by her before, and it just resonates with me all day today.
COLLINS: Yes.
I mean, Amanda, when you see that photo of Andrew leaving, after he was being released from custody. I mean, he just looks shocked in that image. I mean, it's really hard to even describe it. But when you see that picture--
AMANDA ROBERTS, VIRGINIA GIUFFRE'S SISTER-IN-LAW: Yes.
COLLINS: --something that I'm not -- obviously, it's not a position most people are used to seeing anyone be in, but much less a Royal Family member. What goes through your mind?
A. ROBERTS: I imagine he would be shocked.
I think one of the things that Virginia had stated so clearly is like he thought it was his entitlement, right? And he had been protected and shielded by his royalty and his position for so long, I don't believe he even knew that this day would come that he would actually be arrested.
And let's be clear. Something like this has not happened to a Royal in modern-day history, and I believe it was like 1647 where a King or a Royal was arrested. And so, while this may not be a huge deal here for us, the implications in the U.K. is vast.
And so, when I see him in that position, sweating, which we know apparently at one period in time he couldn't do, I think he's sweating now.
COLLINS: Yes, you're famously referencing when he said in that interview, where your sister had made allegations against him. Obviously, there's the photo of them. But she had pretty specific details of what she remembered, including him sweating on her when they were in a nightclub. He claimed to the BBC that he -- it couldn't have been him because -- because he said he famously didn't sweat after being shot at and filled with adrenaline.
S. ROBERTS: Yes, that's the reference.
A. ROBERTS: Yes.
S. ROBERTS: Exactly.
COLLINS: Sky--
A. ROBERTS: I think he's sweating now, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes.
And Sky, that is what's happening in the U.K.
[21:10:00]
But here in the United States, lawmakers went and deposed Les Wexner, yesterday. He's the billionaire CEO of Victoria's Secret formerly. Obviously was close, at least financially, to Jeffrey Epstein. He's trying to put distance between them. But Virginia, your sister, alleged that she was trafficked to him. He was asked by lawmakers about this yesterday. I want everyone to just -- now that we can listen to his answers, listen to what Wexner had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you aware of who Virginia Giuffre is?
LES WEXNER, FORMER CEO, VICTORIA'S SECRET: No. Familiar name, but -- I've heard it, but I can't -- don't connect it to anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever have any sexual contact of any kind with Ms. Giuffre?
WEXNER: No. I would have -- if contacts of -- I don't even know (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Giuffre has accused you of performing sexual acts with her multiple times. You dispute these allegations?
WEXNER: She must be confused. No, it never happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Sky, I just want to give you a chance to respond to Les Wexner saying that Virginia must be confused.
S. ROBERTS: Well, I mean, I would say there's a famous interview with Andrew, that he seemed to be very confused as well. And we see how that's turning out now.
We know our sister to be a truth-teller. She had no reason to come forward and name these names, aside from the fact that she wanted to affect the next generation.
And so, to Mr. Les Wexner, I will say it on behalf of Virginia. You know what you did. I know what you did. And only one of us is telling the truth. And we know that's Virginia. And so, go back to her depositions and stop acting confused.
How about somebody come forward and take some ownership, for once? I believe my sister. I believe that her allegations -- her memory was very clear. I know that from her lawyers, her statements, the way that she was able to come forward so bravely. There's a reason she's the face of survivors right now, and all her survivor sisters are coming to support her, because she paved the way through.
Mr. Wexner, you got some serious answers, OK? You got some serious questions to answer right now, and I hope you do.
And we need to dig a little bit further down. So, I believe my sister.
COLLINS: One thing, Amanda, that people have talked about, looking at what happened today as well is, obviously, Andrew had denied her allegations. He said he never met her, and never recalled meeting her, despite the picture of the two of them. He settled that civil sexual assault lawsuit that she brought against him in 2021, with money that was reportedly provided by the late Queen.
Given that, I wonder what you made of how King Charles is handling this. That statement today, where he didn't even really reference that Andrew is his brother, and said that the law enforcement should be supported and carry out their investigation.
What do you make to how this is being handled today?
A. ROBERTS: I would say, justice delayed. I think that the King is finding himself in a position, where he has to detach himself from his own brother, and he's being put in that position to do so.
He's being called out by his very own people. And protecting the institution of the Royal Family, and what is next for their future. And is this going to be a stain that you guys have to carry for the rest of your history? And so, he's having to make this stand. He's having to separate the Royal Family from this, and say that they support the fullest extent of the law, which is far more than what we are doing here.
And so, as a leader, while we do believe this was justice delayed, we do want to give that credit to say, We're here now. He has taken way more steps than we have done in the U.S., and we expect the rest of our leaders here to do the same and follow suit.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, given that, and more steps in the U.S. When the President was asked today, Sky, about his reaction to this. He was saying that, it's a shame and that he feels badly for the Royal Family, mentioning that the King is supposed to visit the United States in a few months.
Given how the President answered that, and then said, No one talked about Jeffrey Epstein until he was dead. What do you make of that? And do you think you will see the accountability that so many of these survivors want, people like your sister wanted, here in the United States?
S. ROBERTS: Yes. I can tell you, we're damn sure going to fight for it, as long as we can, and as hard as we can, to get that justice for -- and the accountability, for the survivors and for our sister.
[21:15:00]
But it's a shame -- it's a shame that he won't acknowledge it. It's a shame that he continues to deflect. We would expect more from the President of the United States that, instead of saying, Hey everybody, let's move on from this. That, he would sit back in his own self and say, You know what? Maybe we should acknowledge this a little bit.
I think we have a lot of work to do here in the United States. We have yet to acknowledge, even just acknowledge -- I mean, we sat three feet from Pam Bondi, Kaitlan. It was disgraceful that -- the fact that she couldn't even look behind and acknowledge us, because if they did that, then they would admit some sort of wrongdoing. Our President can't do that right now. And the reason is, is because he is potentially implicated in these files, and he has to come to terms with that, and he may have to answer some questions himself too.
But reality is, is the U.K. is doing far more. I think that the King can hold his head high, when he comes here, saying that, Hey, I am doing the most that I can with the tools at my disposal. While, here in the United States, our President has yet to even do even remotely the same. And survivors and, I believe, the people, are very disappointed in that.
COLLINS: Sky and Amanda Roberts, thank you for joining me. I'm always grateful for your time, but especially now. So, thank you very much.
A. ROBERTS: Thank you.
S. ROBERTS: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: My legal source is also here with me. Elie Honig is a former federal prosecutor and our CNN Legal Analyst -- Senior Legal Analyst, here at CNN.
And Elie, when you look at this. A lot of people were looking what happened. And I think even Virginia's family there makes clear, this wasn't about her allegations in relation to the former Prince Andrew. What do you make of what we did see play out today from a legal perspective?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, so first of all, the contrast, I think, between what we saw play out in England, and what we see playing out here, is remarkable. You cannot mistake it. And I think the family just alluded to this.
So, the arrest of Andrew is based largely on emails that came out from the Justice Department, three weeks ago, when the Justice Department released the Epstein Library. They took some of those emails, and they used some of those emails to make this case as it stands right now, against Andrew.
Meanwhile, what are we getting from the United States Justice Department? We are getting, at best, mixed signals. We are getting no signs of specific investigative activity. We are getting internally conflicting statements from Pam Bondi, from Todd Blanche, depending on the time of day. One point, they say there will be investigations. Other points they say, there will not be investigations. Todd Blanche says, a couple weeks ago, It's not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein.
And so, I completely understand the family's frustration here at what they're seeing here in the United States versus what we're seeing overseas.
COLLINS: I think the question it raises is, do you think it will change how this has played out here so far in the United States?
HONIG: So, this will certainly up the pressure on prosecutors here in the Justice Department, because they will and should be asked at every turn by the press and by Congress.
And I want to make this point here today. So, we don't have a statute, a law here in the United States that's analogous to the one that was used to arrest Andrew. That has to do with misuse of public power, essentially.
However, if the Justice Department can prove that any person conspired, worked with Jeffrey Epstein, or Ghislaine Maxwell, in this sex trafficking network? Those people can still be federally charged criminally here in the United States, even if those crimes happened 10, 15, 20 years ago.
Because ordinarily, in our federal system, there's a five year statute of limitations. However, when it comes to child sex trafficking crimes, there is no such statute. In fact, Ghislaine Maxwell tried to argue that the crimes are too old, and she was rejected.
So if there's a will at DOJ, if they want to try to make cases, and if they can get the proof? Yes, they can bring charges. But again, there's no sign that they're meaningfully moving towards that right now.
COLLINS: Elie Honig, thank you for joining us tonight.
HONIG: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Also here, I should note, it's not just Andrew who is undergoing questioning. Yes, that was happening with him today for hours inside a U.K. Police Department.
We also have more of that extraordinary deposition that happened yesterday, here in the United States, of an American billionaire who built Victoria's Secret into a global brand, but also gave Jeffrey Epstein control over his fortune.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEXNER: All the things were inventoried that was at work for me or Jeffrey. It was just regularly done.
MICHAEL LEVY (ph), LES WEXNER'S LAWYER: I'll (bleep) kill you if you answer another question with more than five words, OK?
Answer the question.
WEXNER: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We'll tell you more about that.
Also tonight, we're learning new details about the President's military options in Iran, as he is warning bad things will happen if Tehran does not make a deal soon.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: We now have the video of yesterday's deposition of the billionaire retail magnate, Les Wexner, regarding his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. What you saw at the beginning of the show, and just there where his attorney was basically telling him to shut up, is just part of the five-hour video of the former Victoria's Secret CEO, as he was being questioned by Democratic lawmakers and their staff.
The 88-year-old has become one of the most scrutinized figures in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit, as he has profusely denied any knowledge of Epstein's wrongdoing.
Democrats in the room, though, thought that he was trying to minimize his relationship With Epstein with answers like these.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Q: Did you at any time ever consider him to be a close friend?
WEXNER: No.
As I look back at it, I was conned by the world Olympic all-time con artist. And when -- and you look at, I read in the news, all the people he knew, royalty, kings, princes, and all that. An incredible con artist.
He would make Bernie Madoff look like a Boy Scout. So complete. So diabolical. I mean, just incredible, sinister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Les Wexner was also asked about Epstein survivor, Maria Farmer, who, according to a court document, said that she was abused by Jeffrey Epstein at Wexner's Ohio estate in the 1990s.
Farmer has said she reported her allegations to the authorities back then. And also, says that Wexner's security staff held her against her will at the property, after the assault happened, until her dad came to pick her up. Maria Farmer said that she never met Les Wexner, but that she holds him responsible for what ultimately happened to her.
Now, this is what Les Wexner told the committee when they asked him about her, specifically.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Q: Maria Farmer was reportedly brought to the guest house in 1996. She stayed there for a summer, and claimed she was assaulted there by Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell.
Mr. Wexner, do you recall who Maria Farmer is?
WEXNER: I know her name from the press.
Q: Did you ever meet Maria Farmer? WEXNER: Never.
Q: Is it your testimony today that you do not know whether Maria Farmer has ever stayed on your property?
WEXNER: That would be correct.
I'm sure I answered this correctly. I never met her. Didn't know she was here. Didn't know she was abused.
Q: Are you aware of allegations that security staff on the property stayed with Maria Farmer until her family was able to pick her up?
WEXNER: I didn't know she was here, so how could -- I didn't hurt -- I didn't know her. I didn't know she was here, so I didn't know (bleep) about her. Pardon me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Annie Farmer, who is the sister of Maria Farmer, and an Epstein survivor herself.
And Annie, I'm glad to have you back here. Because, I kind of wonder what goes through your mind when you hear what Les Wexner said about your sister.
ANNIE FARMER, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Yes, I think that what comes to mind is that we have seen with this release of the files that the evidence supports Maria's claims. The evidence supports Virginia's claims. So, I believe Maria. I believe Virginia. I don't believe Les Wexner.
COLLINS: One thing he said that you might believe is he never has been talked to by the Justice Department or the FBI. It shocked a Democrat who was in the room that I spoke with last night.
But just because we can hear him say it himself, I want to listen to that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Q: Has the FBI or DOJ ever directly contacted you or spoken to you about, about Epstein?
WEXNER: Not to my knowledge.
Q: Never?
WEXNER: Never.
Q: Did you speak to any law enforcement agency of any kind regarding Jeffrey Epstein's investigation in New York in 2019?
WEXNER: Never. Didn't -- no, I don't remember ever talking to any law enforcement agency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Given the FBI famously ignored your sister's complaint that she filed in 1996, what is your reaction to hearing that?
FARMER: I was really horrified when I heard that. I mean, I think, as you summarized well, the complaint really explained that she was threatened by the staff there. And number one, I don't believe something like that would happen and Wexner would not be alerted to it. So, just one more reason why I don't believe him.
But then also to think that she would share that information with law enforcement, and they would not follow up in any way, with this person who not only funded Epstein for many years, obviously, but then also, you know, was accused by other survivors at that point. I think they also had access to Virginia Roberts Giuffre's deposition, where she described him as an abuser. So, to think that despite all of that, they are still not questioning someone so central to this operation, it just feels like the corruption goes so deep.
COLLINS: I think you make a good point, because he talked about how long he's had security with him. He said there's probably 20 people who work on his staff at his property. And you're saying it's hard to believe that he wouldn't have been told if there was a young woman, a girl, at your property, that something happened and you were not informed of that?
FARMER: Yes. Yes. And, I mean, Maria had a driver's license with the Wexner address. I mean, she was -- she had been living there, at this point, for months. So, again, I think it just defies--
COLLINS: Wow.
FARMER: --ability, for us to believe that that would -- that that would make sense, that he would never have known about her presence, and certainly never have known, when she was extremely upset, trying to report what happened to her, and then threatened by his staff.
COLLINS: Her driver's license had Les Wexner's estate's address on it?
FARMER: Yes. Yes. This has been turned over and reported on previously.
[21:30:00]
COLLINS: I mean, that's just stunning though, to listen to how he answered that question, and to say, No clue. No idea. I can't know, because I never met her.
Which obviously she had said -- she had made clear. But the fact that--
FARMER: Yes.
COLLINS: --she literally had a license with his address on it.
FARMER: Yes. Yes. COLLINS: That--
FARMER: I think that, the lack of accountability, for him, just -- it was making me think today, as we were watching the news about the former Prince Andrew coming out. That's like in this country, it feels like our system prioritizes profit over all else. And so, our version of royalty is really the billionaire class.
And I think what we saw Virginia prove was that not even Royalty should be above the law. And I'm just really hoping that we can follow the U.K.'s lead and hold our own royal class, these billionaires, accountable for -- because we know that they are likely involved in all kinds of ways. This scheme was not just even about sex trafficking, right? There was a ton of corruption, and all kinds of crimes, and I think there's a lot of investigation that needs to be done.
COLLINS: Do you think that -- is your hope tonight, that this will spark something inside the Justice Department, to change the way they're looking at these documents, and the way that the U.K. clearly is taking seriously, at least some email that Epstein had sent, regarding Andrew?
FARMER: It is complicated, because what we've seen from the DOJ has left me with little faith that they will do the right thing. That has not yet occurred.
But I do think that public pressure means a lot, and I think if they continue to feel the pressure that I believe they are now, that they may be forced to act. And that -- you know, the House, again, we have also this Oversight Committee doing a separate investigation. And so, what comes out of that could also force their hand.
COLLINS: Annie Farmer, thank you for joining me as always, but thank you for joining me tonight. I really do appreciate your time.
FARMER: Thanks so much for having me.
COLLINS: And we'll continue to follow that congressional investigation.
And speaking of the Justice Department, this is what happened there today in Washington. A giant new banner was put up out front, of course, bearing President Trump's face. More on what that means for what is typically a line of independence with the Justice Department.
Also, this comes as the White House just pulled the invites for two Democratic governors who were set to visit the White House tomorrow. One of them will join me live, right after this.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump has a new warning for Iran tonight, as sources are telling us that the United States is prepared to strike as early as this weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They cannot continue to threaten the stability of the entire region and they must make a deal. Or if that doesn't happen, I maybe can understand. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. But bad things will happen if it doesn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We know, from our reporting, the President has not yet made a decision about striking Iran.
He's issuing those threats though, that you heard there, as he was hosting the inaugural meeting of his Board of Peace, here in Washington. The organization is made up of over 20 countries, including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Israel, and several Asian and Latin American nations as well. Though there are several of the United States' European allies that so far have been hesitant and declined to join.
The group is chaired by the President himself. It's tasked with resolving global conflicts, similar to how the United Nations does, and is also set to work on rebuilding Gaza, which the President said today, the United States will help pay for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want to let you know that the United States is going to make a contribution of $10 billion to the Board of Peace.
And that number is a very small number, when you look at that compared to the cost of war. That's two weeks of fighting.
So, we're committed to $10 billion. Together, we can achieve the dream of bringing lasting harmony to a region tortured by centuries of war, suffering and carnage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Perspective now from two political veterans.
Mitch Landrieu, the former Mayor of New Orleans.
And Doug Heye, a Republican strategist.
And Doug, when you hear what the President is saying there. Obviously, this has been something big for him. He wants this to kind of be a legacy situation for him. What do you make of the President in terms of what he said today about the $10 billion?
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I want to follow the money. Everything with Donald Trump is very personally-branded, and there's always money attached. That's been true if we're talking about The Art of the Deal, The Art of the Deal, not just the book, but the game -- the board game, and everything that's going on with Trump Inc., and I'd include the White House with that, Kennedy Center and things like that.
But I also remember, Kaitlan, in September, I was in London, and I went to a meeting for what was being called the Defence, Security and Resilience Bank. And basically, multi-national meeting, with a lot of multi-national banks about, how can we get those countries that aren't at the 5 percent threshold that Trump, I think, very rightly, wants countries to be at for their defense spending, so that we don't foot the bill for everything. How do we do this in a smart way?
Trump has figured out a way, potentially, to do it with his name attached. Now obviously, there are real benefits that could come from that. But there are also personal benefits, as we've seen how he's talked about Gaza in the past as well.
COLLINS: Well, and one thing here that this has raised is questions about Jared Kushner, also, his role in this. He's been pretty -- very closely involved and whatnot. He was there today.
And Mayor Landrieu, on that front, I want you to listen to what Jared Kushner said today about how this is being done.
[21:40:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED KUSHNER, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY: A lot of these people are volunteers. They're doing this not for any personal game. People are not personally profiting from this. They are really doing this for their children, for their grandchildren, and because they want to see peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of that?
MITCH LANDRIEU, CO-CHAIR, AMERICAN BRIDGE 21ST CENTURY, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR, HARRIS-WALZ PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, I think Doug said it right that with Donald Trump, you got to follow the money. Trump's a threefer. $3 for him, maybe $1 for everybody else. I mean, the amount of money the Trump family has put in their pocket, since the President has become president this second time, is just astounding. And so, I think following the money is really important here.
Secondly, it just feels so weird that he created this Board of Peace, and I don't think people know this, but appointed himself, forever, to be the head of it, as though, like, you could actually really do that. And so, it's just very curious to me.
The other thing that I'm worried about, notwithstanding how important it is to bring peace to the Middle East, is how many of our European allies have begged off of this thing, and have said, Look, we're not getting anywhere around this because it doesn't smell right, it doesn't feel right, it doesn't look right.
And I think that when you're thinking about national security, you have to think short-term, but you also have to think long-term and stability as well. And it doesn't look like that they have it, at this moment.
COLLINS: Yes, they seem very skeptical of what the future of it is. The President today didn't like that. He said, they were playing cute.
Doug, I think one question people will have, should he move forward with Iran, and striking Iran, as he was alluding to there, today, as his threats, is, why is he doing that?
HEYE: I mean, you sort of--
COLLINS: What's the justification?
HEYE: You can't separate -- separate the two, and it's the story I want to hear more and more about. This should be the story not just of the day and of the week, but of the month and potentially the year.
So, think about how much -- I know you were on Stephen Colbert, I just watched you on it. Very well done, by the way.
COLLINS: Thank you very much.
HEYE: We've spent so much time talking about Stephen Colbert, and who was on his show, and who wasn't, and so forth, that we've lost sight. There's so many issues that come up, where we lose sight of what's important.
We're talking about strikes in Iran? Oh, this is generally -- generationally-changing, potentially, and we need to know more about what this administration is thinking, not just timing, but what they want to do, why they want to do it, and what the potential outcomes can be, good and bad. And we just haven't heard enough on what's happening with this. And that to me, there are just so many questions that I want answered on this.
COLLINS: You know, John -- Mayor Landrieu, even John Bolton who is in favor of the strikes -- I don't think that will surprise anyone who is familiar with his politics -- was saying last night that the administration does need to make the argument to the American people, should they move forward with why--
LANDRIEU: I heard--
COLLINS: --they even want to have regime change in Iran.
LANDRIEU: Yes, I heard the Bolton interview, and I thought it was an excellent interview. I agree with him that the President has the power to do this, and this is not really a fight with Congress about it. But he did say clearly, and I agree with him, that if the President is going to exercise that power, he has got to tell the American people about why.
I remember very vividly the hostage crisis. I'm actually kind of hawkish on Iran, because this is a very oppressive regime. But as Colin Powell taught us many, many times, If you break this, you have to fix it.
And if the President now for the second time in like two months, is going to amass all of the military might, whether it's in South America or whether it's in Iran? You have to explain it to the American people, because this is a -- if he does this, this is a massive, massive, massive growth of military power. And I think the American people deserve an explanation about what, where, why and when.
COLLINS: Yes, and it's very (ph) clear--
HEYE: And Kaitlan--
COLLINS: --we could be on the brink of it.
HEYE: In June, I was in the Middle East. I was in Israel as the bombs started flying overhead.
COLLINS: Yes.
HEYE: And so, I've watched this issue very closely. The Trump administration has handled this well. But we need a lot more information about what they want to do, at this point.
COLLINS: Yes.
Doug Heye. Mitch Landrieu. Great to have both of you here. We'll watch to see the President's decision.
Also, as I mentioned, the President uninvited two Democrats from the White House tomorrow. It's a bipartisan meeting of governors. It's supposed to be. One of them will join me, right after this.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It's almost impossible to miss the new banner, bearing President Trump's face that just went up here, at the Justice Department. If you've been in Washington, in recent months, you've seen similar ones at the Department of Labor, or the Department of Agriculture, for example. But this one seems to strike a different chord, given it's the Department of Justice.
Historically, administrations have tried to stress a level of independence between the West Wing, and the White House, and their Justice Department, arguing that politics doesn't influence who is being prosecuted.
But it's safe to say, that line has been erased, since President Trump has taken office in his second term. We've seen him directly pressure the Attorney General, to prosecute people who he perceives as his political enemies, or people who have led prosecutions against him. The Justice Department says this banner is in honor of America's upcoming 250th birthday celebration. But if you look at this banner closely, it also echoes what President Trump himself has said, talking about the slogan, Make America Safe Again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Also here in Washington, the President is set to meet with the nation's governors tomorrow, for what's typically a bipartisan gathering at the White House. But we are now told it is no longer going to be an official Governor's Association event, because the President said two specific Democrats aren't allowed to come.
One of them is joining me now. Colorado Governor Jared Polis.
I want to talk about the meeting. First off, though, what do you make of that banner of the President's face? How do you think Republicans would have responded if President Biden put a giant picture of his face on the Justice Department?
GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Look, I think they said it's for our 250th anniversary. I mean, President Trump is old, but he ain't that old. So, I think it's very third-world chic, is how I would describe that sort of -- that sort of propaganda.
COLLINS: Third-world chic?
POLIS: Third-world chic.
COLLINS: Which is not a compliment, I take it?
POLIS: Not a compliment.
COLLINS: Can I ask you. You're in town. There has been some drama over whether or not there is an invitation for you to this meeting at the White House tomorrow.
People might remember it last year, there were all these different tables. The President gotten to this back and forth with Janet Mills, the Governor of Maine.
Are you invited to this meeting? Or are you not invited to this meeting?
[21:50:00]
POLIS: So we -- Wes Moore and I, for whatever reason, are not invited to the dinner, which I believe no Democrats are attending.
There's also a work session at the White House, I don't know if the President is attending or not. Wes Moore and I have been invited. We're considering going. I think there'll certainly be a number of folks of both parties, who want to be the -- we want to be the bigger people here and show that we're ready to work with anybody.
COLLINS: So, that meeting is tomorrow, and your hope is that you will show up to that part of that?
POLIS: Yes, if there's work to be done, I'm happy to do it. Look, I mean, this is really -- the President tries to get in everyone's head here, and distract from the fact that the governors, Democratic and Republican -- we have 41 governors here, Kaitlan. We're having very productive meetings on a wide variety of topics.
It's actually amazing, when you're in the room with governors, you often can't tell who's a Democrat and who's a Republican, because we're talking about roads, we're talking about improving schools, we're talking about immigration in a constructive way. Great conversations today with my Democratic and Republican colleagues. And that's really what these three days are all about. How we can, as peers, as governors, come together, elevate the role of the states and improving the quality of life for our fellow Americans.
COLLINS: Yes, and the President has been going after Wes Moore for a multitude of reasons. He lashed out at you, as he has multiple times. He says he didn't invite you, because you've unfairly incarcerated in solitary confinement a 73-year-old cancer-stricken woman for attempting to fight Democrat voter fraud.
He's talking about Tina Peters, the election clerk who was sentenced to many years in jail because of her role, in basically trying to usurp the 2020 election in her way as an election clerk.
Do you believe that's the reason that the President has an issue with you coming to the White House?
POLIS: At times, he's said he hates our mail-in ballots and holds me responsible for that. Obviously, as you know, governors don't incarcerate people. They are -- people are prosecuted.
In this case, this particular person got a particularly long sentence, that we're examining it. It's probably a too long a sentence. But she did commit a crime. That had nothing to do with ballots or elections. It was after a municipal election, and had to do with illegal access to a room. And obviously, we want to make sure her sentence is consistent with others.
I don't know the reason. People said it's also Wes Moore and I are in leadership in National Governors Association. That's a possibility. I think this whole game of trying to get in the President's head is dangerous, because we shouldn't want to be in his head. But also, frankly, impossible.
COLLINS: Well, he's also mad at the Republican who's running it, Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma. He's been calling him a RINO.
You said you think Tina Peters' -- Tina Peters' sentence is too long. Does that mean that you're considering granting her clemency?
POLIS: We look at a variety of requests. So, I mean, you have somebody who's a non-violent first-time offender. So, we always look at sentences, and I have hundreds of applications that we've looked at. I think it's separate and distinct from the fact that the President has a number of factual errors, even in what you read. Her age is not 73, by the way. It's 70.
COLLINS: She's 70.
POLIS: She is a cancer survivor. She does not have cancer. I mean, there's a number -- those are not the issues at hand. I mean, the only issue at hand, from my perspective, is justice and how long the sentence should be to be consistent with how other people are penalized and are saved for similar crimes.
COLLINS: But do you believe an appeals court should decide that?
POLIS: Well, the process that governors have around clemency is separate and distinct from appeals courts. So, you're absolutely right. She has many appeals. They could take years. All cases do. There was a case of a truck driver in Colorado who carelessly drove, tragically, several people died, careless driving. He got a 110 years. I commuted that sentence to 10 years. So, it's something that I look at--
COLLINS: But I ask because--
POLIS: --because of ensuring equal justice.
COLLINS: --it's your last year as governor. Obviously, you're term- limited.
But when she was being sentenced, the judge went off on her and basically says he was convinced she'd do it all over again if she could, that she didn't express any remorse. She was as defiant as any defendant he had ever seen.
She was also accused of resisting police efforts who were trying to take her iPad at a cafe. She was -- allegedly tried to kick an officer who was trying to arrest her, according to the arrest warrant affidavit.
I mean, she doesn't exactly sound to someone, to people, maybe, as someone who maybe is trying to get out of prison, earlier, and get out of jail early.
POLIS: Look, what -- everything you said, part of the discussion certainly -- you're right. You look at, is there a disparate sentence, but you also look at, does the person take accountability, apologize? Had she done that in court, she wouldn't have gotten nine years. She might have gotten a year. She might have gotten two years.
COLLINS: So, will you grant her clemency if she doesn't apologize?
POLIS: Well, those are -- those are all part of the conversation. We like to see -- what I like to see in a clemency application is somebody who takes responsibility, apologizes. We also look at the disparate sentence. We also look at age and health. Those are the kinds of things that I look at as part of the clemency process.
There's not a separate clemency process for this person. There's a number of them that I'm looking at. And like many governors, I firmly believe, of course, in the value of mercy and redemption. But that certainly also means taking responsibility.
COLLINS: Yes, well, the President, he called her elderly. She was -- she's 70. He's 79 obviously, when you -- when you look at that.
[21:55:00]
But I think the question people had about that is, in terms of what she was trying to do, speaks to the heart of our nation's democracy, and something the President feels strongly about.
And he's also said he wants to nationalize elections in the upcoming midterm elections. Is that something you're worried about when, whether it comes to that or them trying to get access to voter rolls?
POLIS: Absolutely. And the facts of a particular criminal case are separate and distinct from the President's very real threat to undermine, particularly mail-in elections. Colorado is a state where 98 -- 99 percent of our ballots are cast via mail. So, we're taking that very seriously.
We've begun contingency planning. We have drop boxes. We're looking at plans to secure and expand drop boxes. We're looking at how we can better-protect voter integrity. So, it's a topic that's very much on our minds, and we've already begun the planning process and making sure that at least in Colorado, we can have a free and fair election.
We're a gold standard for a free and fair election system. People not -- don't have to vote by mail. They can also come vote in person.
COLLINS: Yes.
POLIS: And some of them choose to do that.
COLLINS: Governor Polis, thank you for being here. Let us know if you end up going to the White House tomorrow.
POLIS: And you know what? We got a lot of snow in our mountains. Come join us and ski in Vail or Copper Mountain. Just the last few days, we got a lot of snow.
COLLINS: Yes.
POLIS: So please come join us.
COLLINS: Governor Polis, thank you so much.
And we'll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
Up next, "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP."
