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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Report: U.S. Sends Thousands More Troops To Middle East; Trump Threatens To Fire Powell, Won't Drop Criminal Probe; White House, GOP Tout Tax Savings Amid Rising Gas Prices. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 15, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JOSE ANDRES, FOUNDER, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN, AUTHOR, "CHANGE THE RECIPE": --and it's the difference between being able to feed your family or going hungry. Well it takes a lot of time to put the systems up and running again, putting the farms up productive again. And with lack of certain fertilizers, we're going to have less outputs of food.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Chef Jose Andres, World Central Kitchen, thanks so much.
ANDRES: Thank you for having me.
COOPER: That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, with days to go before the ceasefire with Iran expires, we are now hearing reports that thousands more troops are being sent to the region, as the White House says that ceasefire isn't being extended yet.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, thousands of additional U.S. troops are reportedly heading to the Middle East, as Iran is threatening to fight its way through a U.S. naval blockade of its ports, and the White House is expressing cautious optimism about restarting peace talks.
At this hour, The Washington Post is reporting that the aircraft carrier, the USS George H.W. Bush, and its nearly 6,000 American service members are moving into the region. The paper also reports that the influx of fire power will include more than 4,000 members of a Marine Expeditionary Unit.
Now, their deployment comes as American Navy ships right now have been broadcasting this warning, as part of its effort to choke off Iranian ports and put a squeeze on the regime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not attempt to breach the blockade. Vessels will be boarded for interdiction and seizure transiting to or from Iranian ports. Turn around and prepare to be boarded. If you do not comply with this blockade, we will use force.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, Tehran has been arguing that this blockade is in violation of the ceasefire, which is right now set to expire within the week.
The White House, though, sounded hopeful about the talks to restart direct talks today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We remain very much engaged in these negotiations, in these talks. You heard from the Vice President directly and the President this week, that these conversations are productive and ongoing. And that's where we are right now.
Those discussions are being had, but nothing is official until you hear it from us here at the White House. But we feel good about the prospects of a deal.
REPORTER: Would those talks be in Islamabad, or where would they be the next round?
LEAVITT: They would very likely be in the same place as they were last time. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, that was the message coming out of the White House Briefing Room today.
Meanwhile, shuttle diplomacy was on display in Tehran as the arrival of the delegation from Pakistan happened, that has obviously emerged as the key mediator in this talks, that is -- in the talks that have been going on, including last weekend. That group that's in Tehran right now includes Pakistan's Army chief, who is often described as the most powerful person in the country. As the Pakistanis, we are told, were carrying a new message from Washington.
Now, we don't know exactly what that message is. The White House didn't confirm that they sent any new message today.
But the one that we're hearing publicly, from the Vice President, who sat across from the Iranians for 21 hours, last weekend, and would likely do so if there are future talks, remains quite different than what we've been hearing from the President himself.
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JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Honestly, after 49 years, there's a lot of, of course, mistrust between Iran and the United States of America. You're not going to solve that problem overnight.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think it's close to over, yes. I mean, I view it as very close to over.
VANCE: We're going to keep on negotiating and try to make it happen, because it would be great for the world.
TRUMP: By the way, I could leave tomorrow. They would never be able to have a nuclear weapon. For years.
VANCE: We are going to make Iran thrive, we're going to make it economically prosperous, and we're going to invite the Iranian people into the world economy in a way they haven't been in my entire life.
TRUMP: I've been screaming at Iranians all day, yes. A little bit of a laryngitis because of my -- I've been screaming at Iranians. You know why? You know why?
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS ANCHOR: So, the Iran leadership you're screaming at?
TRUMP: You know why? Because that's the only thing they understand. They don't understand being nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Few people know better the dynamics at play than my lead sources tonight.
We have CNN's Global Affairs Analyst, Brett McGurk, who was a former Middle East adviser to four presidents.
And also, the former White House Chief of Staff and U.S. Ambassador to Japan, who is now CNN's Senior Political and Global Affairs Commentator, Rahm Emanuel here.
It's great to have both of you here.
Brett, first off, the President saying he was screaming at the Iranians all day. That was taped last night, so presumably yesterday. But I just wonder what you make of the dynamics we've seen play out in the last 24 hours alone.
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, FORMER MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA COORDINATOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: I doubt, Kaitlan, he's talking to the Iranians, but that would be big news. But I think I -- he's very much in this.
Look, I could criticize 10 different things that have happened over the last seven weeks. The last, I think four or five days, I think some of the moves have been pretty good.
[21:05:00]
First, you had the highest level talks with Iran ever, since the '79 revolution, in Islamabad. We obviously put down a fairly firm offer. We sent destroyers through the Strait of Hormuz as those talks were going on. Then announced this blockade. As you have the Pakistan defense chief, he is the most powerful guy in Pakistan, in Tehran today. And the Chinese -- a UAE delegation in Beijing, and the Chinese, I'm told, putting pressure on Iran as well.
So, you can kind of see the maneuvering, diplomatic moves, military moves, to try to enforce what we are trying to do at the diplomatic table. And let's hope it works. We have the ceasefire till Tuesday. I'm hoping these talks can get going again. But the ceasefire is holding, the blockade is working, you got a lot of diplomatic moves going on. And I'm watching to see if we get the talks back on track here over the weekend.
COLLINS: Yes.
What's your take, just from what you've seen?
RAHM EMANUEL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN UNDER PRES. BIDEN, OBAMA WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: I mean, a 100 -- I agree with -- that basically, if you look outside the table, all the pieces that are supposed to be moving, the rook, the pawn, et cetera.
The one thing I would add to that is that's Broadway -- off-Broadway, Israel, Lebanon negotiations. They're talking about ceasefire. That also indicates, I'm sure, the administration putting pressure on Israel. We don't need anything here to disturb what's happening on Broadway. So, I would a 100 percent agree that when you stand back, take a wide lens view, 180 degrees, the pieces that need to happen and people that are moving are happening.
Second, I would just also add, the President's a man talking on both sides of his mouth, in this sense. One way, he's trying to talk up the market, because he cares about the market from his own sense of self- worth. And the other thing he's trying to do is talk about war or moving more military equipment there. Yes, for leverage in the negotiations, but to also to say that, We're not done yet.
So, both comments are true, but they're actually meant for different audiences. And not true in the sense that they're accurate. But he is talking both to the market, to keep it up and drive oil down. And then he's also trying to talk to the Iranians and say, I'm prepared to go back into the military effort if I have to.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point, because he's sending this message, saying, The war is almost over.
But also, I mean, The Washington Post says they're sending another aircraft carrier to the region.
EMANUEL: And 4,000 people, just -- not just the equipment, the people, is a lot of resources and backing up for that.
COLLINS: And I mean, would the President be making a call like that if he wasn't prepared for these talks to go sideways?
MCGURK: No, I think--
COLLINS: What do you think?
MCGURK: If I was at the table negotiating, I would want to see the same moves.
EMANUEL: Exactly. Yes.
COLLINS: Yes.
MCGURK: I want to send another aircraft carrier, so that the message to the Iranians is that, Look, you either do a deal or we could be back to the conflict. The economic pressure is going to continue to grow.
I think the Iranians came to Islamabad, thinking that, they put a gun on the table, We control the Strait of Hormuz. Our ships will get out. Only ships, we agree.
And we've now kind of reversed that. However, so long as the Strait remains basically close to all ships, the pressure is building on everybody. So, you want to try to get that Strait open. But you want to demonstrate to the Iranians like, Look, if this doesn't work, we could go back to the military conflict, which would not be good for anybody.
EMANUEL: There's two clocks here. If I could.
There's a U.S.-China negotiation clock, we got four weeks, because the President doesn't want to go into that without it resolved.
And there's the economy in Iran. They can go only X amount, I think it's people argue somewhere between four to six weeks, and their lack of revenue from the oil is going to run out.
So, you have two different clocks that are pressuring into that system. The President is not going to China without a deal.
COLLINS: You don't think so?
EMANUEL: I think -- I do think one--
COLLINS: What do you make of what he was saying about China today?
EMANUEL: I do think one thing, he doesn't want to go there without a deal, because he knows he will be in a weakened position.
China being involved in this, which has never been involved in the Middle East in any way, the way Russia has? We've been the dominant player. Is not good long-term for us. This is a bad sign to all our Gulf allies, that China is another route to leverage here.
COLLINS: And CNN reported, just for everyone who hasn't -- I mean, the developments are happening so quickly, that China was preparing to potentially help Iran during this ceasefire period.
And the President said he sent a letter to China's -- to Xi Jinping, asking about that, and he told him essentially that it's not happening. And the President said he's going to give him a big fat hug when he arrives in Beijing, a month from today. MCGURK: I saw that report. If it's true that the Russians and the Chinese were helping Iran militarily, against U.S. forces? That is a huge, huge red flag. The President should be on the phone with Xi Jinping.
Look, there's a broader global picture here that we talked about, the CRINK a few times that Kaitlan, China, Russia, Iran, North Korea. It's an adversarial alliance. Iran's drone and missile program supports Ukraine's war and -- or Russia's war in Ukraine. They proliferate all around the region. That cooperation is important. Anything you can do to kind of break that apart is key.
I agree with Rahm, though. We don't want to have an open door here for the Chinese to come in and be the peacemakers in the Middle East. I mean, this is something that we have to help with. But with the Strait closed, China will care about that, the blockade. I think this gets Beijing's attention, and they can put some pressure on Iran.
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EMANUEL: The three things that we'd do -- look, we went in to degrade their nuclear capacity. They discovered they have a nuclear option called the Strait of Hormuz. We have to change that.
Three things to do. We are doing the Strait of Hormuz. Long-term -- mid-term, you have the United Nations run the Strait of Hormuz. The resources are divided up by all the Gulf countries, not just for Iran. Long-term, use the Abraham Accords to build a pipeline out of the -- to circumvent the Strait of Hormuz and give our allies, not only an alternative, but it reminds Iran, we're not going anywhere.
Their whole goal since 1979 is to get the United States out of the Gulf. If you use the Abraham Accords to prove as a financing vehicle, to help Bahrain, Qatar, and UAE, and Kuwait? It says, America is a permanent power in the Gulf, and that blocks both China and Russia for coming in and creating mischief long-term.
COLLINS: Ambassador Rahm Emanuel. Brett McGurk. Great to have both of you on this tonight.
MCGURK: Thank you.
COLLINS: And also joining us tonight, here from Washington, my congressional source is Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. He's a member of the Senate Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committees.
Senator, so thank you for being here.
I mean, you just heard how Rahm Emanuel and Brett McGurk laid this out, in terms of the dynamics that are actually shifting behind the scenes, which seems to be saying a lot more than maybe the headlines do. What do you make of what's played out in the last 24 hours? Do you think that the United States is in a better position right now?
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Well, look, I want the ceasefire to hold. I want it to be extended. I want it to be permanent. But the fact that the U.S. is now negotiating to reopen the Straits of Hormuz. It was open before the war. The U.S. is trying to get a negotiation done to control Iran's nuclear program. It was controlled under the Obama administration, until President Trump tore up a diplomatic deal. And many of us told him at the time, If you make diplomacy impossible, you will make war inevitable.
And so now, U.S. troops are dying, others are being injured, civilians are being injured, and now we're trying to have a negotiation to return to a status quo that we had with diplomacy.
This is not only an illegal war, it's an incredibly foolish one, and I've got Virginians paying $1 more at the pump every time they get a gallon of gas. We buy 8 million gallons of gas a day in Virginia. That's $8 million a day that we are spending that we weren't before this war. And that's happening all over the United States and all over the world.
So look, I'm glad they're negotiating. They've gone in and destroyed all the China in the China shop, and now they're talking with the owner of the shop about, Well, maybe we should talk about how to put it back together. You shouldn't have destroyed it without a plan to begin with.
COLLINS: When it comes to -- I mean, you said that you want the ceasefire to be permanent, in terms of what they're negotiating. I mean, the reality is this war has happened. This is underway. What do you think that those terms should look like, if the U.S. and Iran do come to an agreement?
KAINE: Well, it's happened and it's underway, but I don't want more Virginians to be deployed in an illegal and an unwise war.
These carrier strike groups that are being sent over one after the next, hundreds and then thousands include an awful lot of Virginians, and I've got their families asking me, Why are we doing this? What's the rationale? When are the sailors on the Ford going to come home? It just passed the longest deployment in the history of the United States. They were supposed to be home by Christmas. They're still over there.
What should we do? We should negotiate to keep the Strait open and keep the ceasefire going. I don't know what Iran wants in this. What we want is we want them to make the same pledge that they did make, in 2016, that they would never seek to acquire or develop nuclear weapons. They made that pledge, and then the U.S. tore up the deal.
We want them to make the pledge again. And I'm sure they're going to say, OK, then what are you going to do to rebuild the civilian infrastructure that you've bombed, and what are you going to do to compensate the nation after you've assassinated our leadership and you've killed civilians? They're going to have some asks. I don't know what their asks are going to be.
COLLINS: Yes. KAINE: But I'm hoping that having people around the table can get us to a chapter, where this is not just another endless war in the Middle East, which we foolishly engaged in for 25 years. And nobody that I know of in Virginia, a very pro-military state, thinks more war in the Middle East is a good idea.
COLLINS: You've called this an illegal war twice now, maybe three times.
For the fourth time, this year, the Senate has now rejected your attempt to limit the President's war powers, when it comes to Iran. What do you think is the message from that tonight?
KAINE: Well, look, I'm going to -- we're going to try it every week. Yes, I have led the challenge. It's -- I'm not trying to limit the President's war powers. I'm trying to enforce the Constitution.
And the Constitution says, you are not at war unless Congress votes to go to war. And the President is calling this a war, over and over again. We can't spend money on child care and Medicaid and Medicare because of all the wars we're fighting. You are not allowed to go to war without a vote of Congress. The President wants to end run Congress and do it on his own, punishing the American military and our economy, on his own.
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I'm going to keep forcing a vote every week until my colleagues finally listen to their constituents and stop this deeply unpopular war. When you don't get allies on board, when you don't have a clear rationale, when you don't have a plan, and we don't explain it to the American people, guess what? The war is unpopular. And we're going to have this vote every week until we end this war, and we'll make darn sure that people know who owns this war.
COLLINS: Ambassador Emanuel just mentioned the other part of this, which is they're trying to get a ceasefire in Lebanon, to get Israel to stop. I mean, that would be a big deal, obviously, if the United States does constrain Israel, gets them to stop in that way.
KAINE: Yes.
COLLINS: Bernie Sanders just put out a statement tonight, because his resolution to block arms sales to Israel, some of them, it's failed, again, in the Senate. But it has more support from more Democrats than other resolutions that he tried to pass recently.
Why do you think more of your fellow Democrats are now saying, We're not going to vote to send some of these weapons to Israel. Why do you think they've changed their minds?
KAINE: Yes, so I took a position, beginning in February of 2024, we should provide defensive weapons to Israel so they can protect their civilians, but we should not provide offensive weapons that kill other civilians in Gaza, or in Lebanon, or elsewhere. We had our first vote on this, Kaitlan, in November of 2024, and we got 17 votes. We've had subsequent votes that got 20 and 27, and now we're up to 40. And what this is showing is, while Israel has been a security partner in the United States, and we are more invested in their defense than any other ally they have, we are very, very tired of them using U.S. weapons to carry out offensive operations that lead to mass civilian deaths. And that's why we've grown from 17 votes to 40 votes, because of people really, really worried about the scale of civilian deaths.
It was just announced, this is a good thing, the United States got Israel and Lebanon to sit down at a negotiating table, and the headline was, for the first time in decades, Israel and Lebanon are next-door neighbors. And they have to be able to manage their own relationships. And the fact that they have not even been willing to have discussions for decades, that should ring an alarm bell.
The U.S. can't be a guarantor all around the world. Neighbors have to learn how to get along with one another without expecting the United States to just come in and provide bombs and bulldozers.
COLLINS: Senator Tim Kaine, thank you for joining us tonight.
KAINE: Absolutely.
COLLINS: Coming up here on THE SOURCE. We have been analyzing thousands of videos from the Jeffrey Epstein files. What two experts say those videos actually reveal about the sex offender and how he lured people into his orbit.
And also President Trump's new threat to a familiar foe (ph). Of course, you've seen this one coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'll have to fire him, OK? If he's not leaving on time. I've held back firing him. I've wanted to fire him, but I hate to be controversial, you know.
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COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is threatening to fire the Federal Reserve Chair, Jerome Powell, and says the Justice Department won't drop its criminal investigation into him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: Jay Powell out of the way.
TRUMP: I do. I do. But does that mean--
BARTIROMO: Isn't the easiest way to get him out of the way, to end the probe?
TRUMP: --does that mean we stop a probe of a building that I would have done for $25 million, that's going to cost maybe $4 billion? Don't you think we have to find out what happened there?
Whether it's incompetence, corruption, or both, I think you have to find out, I really do, I think you have to find out.
BARTIROMO: So you're not going to drop the probe?
TRUMP: Well I'm not planning -- I have to find out.
BARTIROMO: And he said he's not leaving if, you know--
TRUMP: Well then, I'll have to fire him, OK? If he's not leaving on time. I've held back firing him. I've wanted to fire him, but I hate to be controversial, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Does he?
Here's the thing on all of this. The only reason that Jay Powell would not leave on time, which is when his term ends, one month from today, on May 15th, is that the President's pick to replace him, Kevin Warsh, is not confirmed by then.
One of the most obvious reasons that that would happen is if Republican Senator Thom Tillis stands by his vow not to support Kevin Warsh's nomination, which he says he won't do unless the investigation into Jay Powell is dropped.
You heard the President there say, it won't be.
So basically, the President is creating this situation that would prevent his new pick to lead the Fed, from getting the job, potentially, from getting a key Republican vote, which would therefore force the current Fed chair to stay on in an interim role, which he says he'll do, and that the President says he'll try to fire him if he does.
My source tonight is Lael Brainard, the former Vice Chair of the Federal Reserve.
And I just think, looking at this. I mean, the President doesn't want Jay Powell to be the Fed chair. It seems the easiest way to make him not be the Fed chair, and have him leave, and get his replacement confirmed, is if they dropped the investigation into him. But the President is saying he doesn't want to do that.
LAEL BRAINARD, FORMER VICE CHAIR, FEDERAL RESERVE: It is strange. It does seem like the President has been saying, for a year now, that he wants his own pick to head the Federal Reserve.
There is a clear path. The criminal investigation gets wrapped up. Kevin Warsh has his hearings and a vote. And Jay Powell will no longer be chair.
[21:25:00]
What is very confusing, I think, to everybody, is what is the point of going forward with a criminal investigation, when members of his -- the President's own party, Senator Thom Tillis has said, No, you need to drop this criminal investigation for me to vote for your new Chair pick.
COLLINS: Yes. And I think some people might hear that and say, Well, if there's a criminal investigation, it should play out.
But I mean, not just Thom Tillis. John Thune, the Senate Majority Leader, said today that it should be wrapped up, so then Kevin Warsh can take his spot. Tim Scott, who runs the Banking Committee, which will vote on this, said earlier that he believes it will be over by then, though, he said he didn't have any evidence as to why. I mean, there are a lot of Republicans, who are huge allies to the President, who are saying, This investigation doesn't have merit.
BRAINARD: Well, and of course, that's exactly right.
There was a district court judge who said that, who essentially said that the subpoenas to continue the criminal investigation could not go forward because the case was without merit, that it seemed to be a pretext, but that there was no evidence to support the case.
So, it does seem the courts and members of the President's own party are saying, Drop the case, confirm your pick for chair.
But he hasn't been willing to do that.
COLLINS: How remarkable do you think it is that -- I mean, if the Federal Reserve is operating out of its building right now, the building across the street is the one that's being renovated.
I mean, prosecutors from Jeanine Pirro's office showed up at the construction site yesterday, and they were turned away by the construction workers who said, You'd have to have a clearance to -- legal documents to be able to get in here and actually access this.
But I mean, it very much shows that they are still trying to investigate something here.
BRAINARD: Well, it is particularly surprising that those prosecutors from Jeanine Pirro's office showed up, after the District Court judge said that they could not proceed with subpoenas because the case did not have merit.
So, it is surprising. And again, I think that the simple thing here is to wrap up the criminal investigation, give Kevin Warsh his vote, and then the President will get his pick for the Fed.
COLLINS: When you were at the Fed, you advised Jay Powell, the Chairman right now. He does have the option, even if Kevin Warsh is confirmed, to stay on, on the Board, if this investigation hasn't been dropped by then, or if Thom Tillis somehow changes his mind.
Is your sense that he would in effort -- in an effort to basically fight these efforts to investigate him, because he won't lower the interest rates?
BRAINARD: Well, my -- what he said clearly, at the last press conference, was that he would not leave until the criminal investigation was resolved. So, that was very clear.
What he would do, if the criminal investigation were wrapped up? He left unanswered. And I don't think anybody really knows how he's going to make that determination. But I think what is clear is that he'll make that determination in the best interest of the institution, and he said it, in the public interest. What is clear is that he will not step down, voluntarily, unless the criminal investigation is wrapped up.
COLLINS: Did it surprise you, when the Treasury Secretary said yesterday, that the Fed should wait and see about lowering interest rates amid the Iran war? I mean, the White House has been saying, Lower rates, lower rates, lower rates. And Scott Bessent yesterday said, to Semafor, actually like, Let's wait and see what happens with Iran.
BRAINARD: Well, I think the juxtaposition of the Treasury Secretary essentially saying, Yes, the spike in oil price is associated with the Iran war. That does give good reason for the Fed to be on hold for now.
At the same time, a day later, the President says, I'm going to fire the Chair unless he steps down.
So, there does seem to be a disconnect between the President and the Treasury Secretary on this issue.
COLLINS: Lael Brainard, thank you for joining us tonight. Great to have your expertise on this.
BRAINARD: Thank you.
COLLINS: Really appreciate it.
And up next. Usually, April 15th is met with maybe some groans, some stress, some asks for extensions. This year, Republicans are trying to rebrand Tax Day, though. Will it work?
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BROOKE ROLLINS, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE: It's tax week, and we're celebrating major tax cuts around this country.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): You're going to have $300 more per month to spend. Why? Thank a Republican. REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Americans in all 50 states are benefiting from taxes that are lower and simpler and fairer for their families.
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COLLINS: It's your accountant's favorite holiday, Tax Day in America.
But here's why the White House and the allies of this administration want you to celebrate this day instead.
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JOHNSON: Lower taxes, bigger refunds and more money in the pockets of hardworking Americans.
SCOTT: Why is Tax Day a good day? Because you're going to have $300 more per month to spend. Why? Thank a Republican.
LEAVITT: With Tax Day officially here, the numbers prove these tax cuts have been nothing short of extraordinary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now the Treasury Department says that more than 53 million filers claimed at least one of the new tax breaks from the President's, as he describes it, so-called, Big, Beautiful Bill, including no tax on tips, overtime, car loan interest, and a few other things.
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The average refund was more than $3,400 and a 11 percent increase from last year. And as more money is going into Americans' pockets, obviously it's going to be a big talking point for Republicans in their fight to hold control of Congress this November.
Democrats are arguing that voters are going to be forced to spend the extra cash they have in their tax refunds by filling up their cars at the pump.
According to AAA, the national average for a gallon of gas is at $4.11 right now. That's over $1 more than it was at the start of this war with Iran.
And as tomorrow, the President is scheduled to give a speech on his tax policy in Nevada. Nevadans who drive to that speech, are paying nearly $5 a gallon. As voters across the country are experiencing increased costs at the pump.
We heard from the Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent. He was in the Briefing Room with us today for today's briefing to highlight no tax on tips, and the other parts of the Big, Beautiful Bill. But when he was asked about gas prices coming down, he said this.
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PETER DOOCY, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: When are we really going to get $3 a gallon gas?
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, I think that's going to be up to how the negotiations go.
I'm optimistic that during the summer we will see gas with a 3 in front of it sooner rather than later.
DOOCY: So not by summer like Memorial Day, but maybe by Labor Day?
BESSENT: Again, I'm optimistic that sometime between June 20th and September 20th, that we can have $3 of gas again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources are here.
Democratic strategist Paul Begala, who I can't wait to hear his thoughts on this.
Also, former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.
I mean, David -- I want to just keep you both on screen while we talk about this, because I want to see both of your reactions. June 20th and September 20th--
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Yes, that's not--
COLLINS: --is a pretty big window.
URBAN: That's not a great window, because it's like early voting starts in some of those states by then, right?
COLLINS: Yes.
URBAN: So, having gas with a big number like that in front of it's not great. I mean, it's the one -- it's the one scorecard that people could see every time they drive down the street.
Look, I like the statistic up there, $3,400 bucks in working-class families' pockets. But as you point out, if gas stays that high, it's going to nibble away at that, and people aren't going to focus on that $3,400. They're going to focus on the extra $20 that's going to the tank every time they fill up.
COLLINS: Yes, and if they're filling up twice a week, or what have you, Paul. I mean, that is a real question, in terms of this big message that the White House is understandably trying to push to say, Here, this is why your refund is so much bigger for so many people today. But it does come, as they're also having to shell out more money when they go fill their car up right now. PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right. And so, their message is, We're going to tell people, Things are better than they know them to believe, right?
Ask the Biden team how that works out, right?
URBAN: I'm glad Paul pointed that out.
BEGALA: It's straight out of what the Biden guys and gals did wrong.
Now, I will defend Trump. Everybody's Oh, he's crazy, he's doing -- I don't think so. I think things are great if you're the Trump family. David Kirkpatrick, in The New Yorker, says Trump has made almost $4 billion off the presidency. He's got some 747 from the Qatari sheiks. He's got Bitcoin, meme coin, Trump coin, whatever the hell that is.
He's hauling in money. But it's like that old country song, He gets the gold mine, we get the shaft. And it's not going to sit very well with voters who are not named Trump. I do think the Republicans have locked up to Trump family because they have really benefited off of this economy. But the rest of American families.
You mentioned, gas is up a buck just in the last few weeks. Since he took office, Hamburger is up over $1 a pound. Coffee is up $2 a pound. And this will really upset Urban. Yuengling, a great Pennsylvania beer, he and I have had many of them in that Commonwealth, it's up two bucks a six pack in the last year.
So, we're getting hammered here in the real world, while Mr. Trump is, as we say in Texas, farting through silk.
COLLINS: Well, and we saw the inflation numbers -- OK. I mean.
URBAN: Just skip over that. Don't even--
COLLINS: I am going to just keep going.
URBAN: Just keep going.
COLLINS: Because I don't even know how to--
BEGALA: Well, they say that in Alabama too, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: I don't even know how to respond to that. Yes, I mean, I don't know.
URBAN: No, just keep going.
COLLINS: I don't know if I've heard that one.
But David, I mean, there is a real -- I mean, if you're saving $1,500 or you've got more of that from the tax refund, but you're spending so much more because of inflation, because of the gas prices? And you're a congressional Republican who's on the ballot this November? I mean, you're not going to be feeling good if gas is not down until September. URBAN: Yes, I mean, look, the fact of the matter is, as Paul said, you know that the Biden administration tried to sell this, The economy was and is doing well.
If you're in the -- if you're in the equities market, and you're in lots of places, the economy is doing well.
If you're a working-class person in Western Pennsylvania, Beaver County, Pennsylvania, trying to make a living? It's tough. That $3,400 bucks helps you. But the gas prices hurt you. The price of like, as Paul said, eggs, groceries, everything, that has real impact.
And so, Republicans are going to have to sharpen their message. They're going to have to hope this war ends sooner rather than later. Scott Bessent said, he hopes it's down sooner rather than later. Well it's got to come down a lot sooner than the summer, if they're going to be able to really have an impact on people's pocketbooks.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: You know, Paul, one thing -- I was in the briefing room today. Scott Bessent was in there, Kelly Loeffler was in there, and Karoline Leavitt, talking about this. They had these big headlines up behind them.
And then at the end of the briefing, this was put up on the screen. This is the arch that the President wants to install here, in Washington, in honor of America's 250th birthday this summer. The White House says the Interior Department is now going to be submitting plans to build this. We're hearing from outlets here in Washington, saying that they want to use taxpayer funds to cover this. We didn't get to ask that question today because they asked -- they presented this at the end of the briefing.
But it was a pretty jarring contrast of -- at the beginning, they're talking about working families, saving all this money from the tax refunds.
Then they're talking about working families having to pay more at the gas pump, and how long that's going to last, getting a bunch of questions about that.
And then they ended it by saying, Here's this huge project that we're undertaking in Washington to build this arch that the President wants.
BEGALA: Yes, I mean, the -- I couldn't think of a better ad for the Democratic Party, frankly, better than most of the ads the Democratic Party runs. I mean, Scott Bessent just needs, you know that top hat and the monocles, and he'll be the Monopoly guy.
But people don't like that, and they sure don't like seeing our President spending our money, or maybe even more special interests money, or some Arab sheikh's money to put up a giant monument to himself. And he did tell, I think it was a CBS reporter, It's to honor me. And I don't know. I just don't think -- I do know, people don't like that. They want a president who fights for them. Why did they hang in there with Bill Clinton when we had a couple of bad days? Because they believed he was fighting for them, that he felt their pain. Well, Trump is causing their pain, and they don't like it.
URBAN: Well, I'd say to Paul, that that's why Trump did get elected, because people did believe that he was in their corner, fighting for them.
As far as the arch goes. Listen, I'm pro anything that's going to celebrate America. It's the 250th anniversary of our great country. Paul would be yelling at Teddy Roosevelt for establishing National Park Service, if Roosevelt was president.
So, this arch is going to live lot longer than Donald Trump, a lot longer than any of us. I think it's a great commemorative monument to our sestercentennial (ph). And I think it's completely appropriate. I don't have any issue with it.
So, whether it's Tax Day, not Tax Day, the National Park Service has plenty of money. We could build -- in the Interior Department. We could build an arch to celebrate all those people who fought from the Revolutionary War up until today, to make our country what it is. So no issues with that one.
COLLINS: Paul, final thought?
BEGALA: Well, it in fact -- David, you know this, but audience should know, David served our country. He jumped out of perfectly good airplanes. He really is, and I don't agree on politics, but he's an American hero, and I really do admire your service.
I will say, where he wants to put that stupid thing is going to block our view of Arlington National Cemetery. And again, I mean, I've got a family member -- there. It's the most important holy place in America.
And I don't think it's there -- I don't think Mr. Trump -- he said the other day that it's to honor himself. I don't think it's about the troops or anything else other than his own massive ego. I mean, he's put his name on the Kennedy Center. It's already got a perfectly good president's name on it. I mean, he seems to be kind of losing control with this narcissism.
COLLINS: I do agree, it is one of the best, most humbling places that anyone can visit.
URBAN: Everybody should go there.
BEGALA: Yes.
COLLINS: Paul Begala. David Urban. Thank you both for being here tonight.
URBAN: Thanks, Kaitlan.
BEGALA: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. I mentioned that CNN has been analyzing Jeffrey Epstein on tape. We have been digging deeper into the videos, analyzing thousands of them in that DOJ release what -- maybe you haven't even seen yet. And what they reveal? Right after this.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, says the Justice Department would support a public hearing in Congress with the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein.
It's an idea that first lady, Melania Trump, floated last week, during the surprise remarks, where she distanced herself from the late convicted sex offender.
And several survivors are arguing that actually, instead, the Justice Department, in their words, should be doing more to find justice for the victims, and that the department leaders, quote, Must answer for withheld files.
Of the millions of files that have been released, CNN was able to analyze roughly 2,000 of the videos that were part of those files, some of which include interviews with Jeffrey Epstein himself.
CNN's Tom Foreman dug into those video files.
Tom, I think, obviously this is -- everyone was trying to sort through and dig through this. You're looking through all of it. What did you learn?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is just a hodgepodge of everything, from him talking about landscaping his property, to video of him dancing with young women. A lot of videos that are so heavily redacted, you can't really tell what they show.
But what they do paint is a very clear picture of a creepy guy and a really clear question. Why did so many people who had so much to lose keep hanging out with him?
We sat down with a couple of experts and said, You look at this, law enforcement people, tell us what you think.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFFREY EPSTEIN, AMERICAN FINANCIER AND CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER: I think women, as I said the last time, have an intuitive sense. What is intuitive? They have intuition. They have feelings, and they're able to deal in the realm of things that men, especially men like myself, find unexplainable.
[21:50:00]
FOREMAN: So, Melissa Merola, as a former profiler. Christine Dunn, as a former federal prosecutor. When you hear that, what do you see?
MELISSA MEROLA, FORMER PROFILER: So, I see somebody who clearly knows how to take advantage of the situation, how to size somebody up and determine, is there a way that I can spot vulnerabilities, and that I can use those vulnerabilities and exploit them in some capacity?
CHRISTINE DUNN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, VICTIMS' RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I don't think he viewed any of his victims as actual people. They were things to be used by him.
FOREMAN: To what degree do you think this lavish lifestyle, that he exposed people to, was also just part of the whole equation?
DUNN: We know that most of his victims were vulnerable individuals. And so, they see something like this, and they think, This is opportunity for me to get ahead, to have a stable income, to have a place that I can go. And so, it's a part of the grooming process. It really is.
EPSTEIN: I'm in a privileged position to have some of the world's smartest people come to my house and tell me what they think about different subjects.
DUNN: Well, I think all of these famous individuals gave him legitimacy. You come into this situation and you see, Well, Jeffrey Epstein is good friends with this person that I admire and respect, so there must be some legitimacy to him.
FOREMAN: One of the things he talked about was his contact with other people, and opportunities he could make for him.
EPSTEIN: He said there's this company called (bleep). He said he mentioned it to you. He thinks they'll pay you a couple of million dollars to be on the board. You're going to make a lot of money. You're definitely going to make a lot of money.
DUNN: You know, by being connected to Jeffrey Epstein, opens up a world of contacts and profitable opportunities. That's just hard to say no to, and maybe that's why people were willing to overlook some of these red flags. I think he played his part very well. He knew what worked.
FOREMAN: He clearly liked to present himself as, and other people saw him as, very intelligent.
EPSTEIN: How do you describe decep-- in the artif-- intelligence, deception?
Kids who never lie aren't very smart. They're not very intelligent, right?
FOREMAN: Do you see an intelligent mastermind, though, or do you see a con man?
MEROLA: He fits what we see in a lot of our domestic violence cases, when we see somebody who has the ability to physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically, continue to dominate. And that's what I think I see with him, versus true intelligence.
FOREMAN: There's this one clip when he's trying to rehabilitate his image, basically, and he's being asked by Steve Bannon for a potential documentary they're going to make about his impression of himself.
STEVE BANNON, EXECUTIVE AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: And it never struck you about how to end up in a situation like this?
EPSTEIN: No, that would be, probably means I would be too self-aware.
You're suggesting I was somewhat depressed, and how could this happen to me?
BANNON: I'm not saying depressed. I'm saying, a moment of awareness of how could I get myself into this situation?
EPSTEIN: No, I was just saying how strange that this happens. Just it's strange.
MEROLA: He's unable to accept blame, unable to feel regret, feel remorse. If he were still alive, I could see him continuing to proclaim his innocence. He just does not value the gravity of what he has done, and will not and did not truly take responsibility.
BANNON: Do you think you're the devil himself?
EPSTEIN: No, but I do have a good mirror.
BANNON: It's a serious question. Do you--
EPSTEIN: I'm sorry.
BANNON: Do you think you're the devil itself?
EPSTEIN: I don't know. Why would you say that?
BANNON: Because you have all the attributes. You're incredibly smart. You remember, the devil is somebody--
EPSTEIN: The devil's smart?
BANNON: The devil's brilliant. You read Milton's--
EPSTEIN: Right--
BANNON: You read Milton's Paradise Lost.
EPSTEIN: No, the devil scares me.
FOREMAN: I mean, he's acting like he's the victim here.
MEROLA: Correct. Which is not surprising.
DUNN: He was charming, and he was able to give people what they wanted, and people wanted to believe it, so that they could stick around in this Shangri-La that he created. MEROLA: And that is what you have going on, and why it went on for so long.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: It was really informative to sit down with these experts and see what they can see here. Because, I'll tell you, there is so much you cannot see here.
We don't have the metadata on this. We don't know who took the video, where the video was taken, who was in the room. And some of it is so blacked out by the Justice Department, all you can see are the edges of the frame. In that sense, this release leaves a lot to be desired. Even as there's so much video you can barely start plowing through it.
COLLINS: You know, anyway -- I understand this is a lot, but it would be nice if it said why parts of that were redacted, or why you couldn't see parts of that, because it's also just so weird to hear from him and to hear his voice--
FOREMAN: Yes, yes, I think a lot of people--
COLLINS: --and his comments.
FOREMAN: --really have never heard him speak. And to sit and watch him talk in these interviews--
COLLINS: Yes.
[21:55:00]
FOREMAN: --and to see him moving around. It's just a very strange world. A little window into it, and I think there's going to be more windows to come.
COLLINS: Tom Foreman, thank you for looking through all that for us and showing it to us. It's illuminating for sure.
Up next. Also today, there was a huge ruling against Ticketmaster and Live Nation. What does it mean for you when you're trying to get your concert tickets? We'll tell you right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: If you were ever queued behind 50,000 people in a virtual line for Bad Bunny tickets? You might want to listen to this.
A jury in New York today found that Live Nation and Ticketmaster's dominance of the live event ticketing industry is a monopoly. That verdict comes after years of complaints that the industry giant was stifling competition and driving up those notorious fees that fans have to pay.
In a statement, Live Nation said they pledge to appeal this decision, writing that, The jury's verdict is not the last word on this matter.
[22:00:00]
But the judge is now going to hold a second trial to decide what remedies would be warranted here. It could include breaking up the company or even ordering the sale of the business.
We'll obviously stay on it and keep you updated.
Thank you so much for joining us here on THE SOURCE tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
