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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Iran War Looms Over Trump's Summit In China; Alex Murdaugh's Murder Convictions Overturned, New Trial Ordered; Trump Departs For Meeting With Xi In Beijing. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired May 13, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: --when she is still in recovery. But I'm told, she had an absolutely great day. So, it probably will be more likely that she will make more international trips. Though, no one will be drawn on whether the United States is on that list.
Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Max Foster, thanks so much.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Two of the world's most powerful leaders are about to come face to face, as the Iran war and sky-high gas prices here at home are looming over this high-stakes meeting. We'll take you there on the ground.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, President Trump is in Beijing, as you can see earlier, as he descended the steps of Air Force One. He's now set to have a high- stakes summit with the Chinese leader, President Xi Jinping. A visit that is complete with all the trappings and traditions that the President prefers. The red carpet, the military band, cheering crowds that are waving American and Chinese flags.
But it's not exactly the trip that he envisioned. That's because, when the White House announced this visit to Beijing, the Supreme Court had not yet struck down the President's tariffs, the United States wasn't at war with Iran, and the Strait of Hormuz was brimming with traffic. Meaning, this would not have been near the top of the agenda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We make a lot of money with China. I have a great relationship with President Xi. And I think you can see that with the fact that in Hormuz, they get a big percentage, 40 percent of their oil from Hormuz.
We'll be talking about -- I mean, he'll bring up Taiwan, I think, more than I will. But I think that a discussion will be a little bit about -- a little bit about energy and about the very beautiful country of Iran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, when this trip was announced, gas prices were under $3 a gallon. As of today, the national average for a gallon of gas here in the United States is $4.51. That's up $1.53 since the war started back in February.
But the President, just as he was leaving for China, said, things like that aren't affecting his decision-making when it comes to the Iran war.
It's a comment that the Vice President JD Vance said today, never happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. Vice President, when approaching the war with Iran, do you agree with the President's position that Americans' financial situations should not be a consideration in that decision-making process?
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't think the President said that. I think that's a misrepresentation of what the President said.
TRUMP: I don't think about Americans' financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You can hear it there for yourself from the President's mouth. He did say what the Vice President was arguing he did not say.
On this trip overall, though. The White House has already delayed it once, if you'll keep that in mind, keeping that four to six -- four- to six-week war that they believed would be over by now. Of course, we are now in the 11th week of this war.
And here's where Beijing comes into play into all of this, something to keep in mind as you're watching these meetings between Trump and Xi play out. China buys 80 to 90 percent of the oil shipped from Iran. And the hope, so far, among U.S. officials, is that Xi can use that economic leverage that China has, to help bring an end to the stalemate between the United States and Iran. The question tonight, though, is, what does he want in return?
Trump and Xi are set to get things underway in the next hour or so. We're going to bring you those moments live, as they happen with our team of reporters who are on the ground.
First, here to break it all down tonight is. CNN's Global Affairs Analyst, and Iran expert, and also the senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Karim Sadjadpour.
And CNN Anchor and Chief National Security Analyst, and China expert, Jim Sciutto.
And it's excellent to have both of you here tonight as we're watching this meeting. Given Jim, so much of what this meeting was supposed to be -- is certainly still there -- but a lot of this has changed in terms of this war and what has happened since--
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes.
COLLINS: --as we're about to watch President Trump and Xi Jinping sit down together.
SCIUTTO: And as a result of that, and I've been speaking to diplomats in the region, China feels it enters this meeting from a position of strength, both in national security terms and in trade terms.
[21:05:00]
First on national security. It sees the U.S. bogged down in a war in the Middle East, once again. And while yes, China certainly suffers from higher energy costs, it sees the U.S. military depleting munitions that it might use to defend Taiwan or to project power in Asia. So, it sees a superpower rival distracted and weakened as a result of that. So, on balance, it feels stronger.
In trade terms. It feels it already exposed America's weakness with rare earths in the previous round of this trade war. And by the way, those rare earths only more essential now because, the U.S. has to replace all those missiles used in the Iran war, and that gives China leverage in the trade portion of the negotiations.
The other thing I'll say, Kaitlan, is that for years, China's confidence, as it relates to the U.S., has been building. It believes that it is going to overtake the U.S., and actually believes that that process is accelerating under President Trump because, they see the U.S. walking away from many of its strengths, alliances, both in Asia and in Europe.
Now, listen, just like the U.S., China is capable of hubris, it may be overestimating its position, and China has its own internal economic difficulties, debt loads, aging population, et cetera. But at least their vision of this relationship right now is one where they hold the upper hand.
COLLINS: Yes. And that's a good point in terms of watching these dynamics. But Jim, just there's always takeaways--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
COLLINS: --or typically, they try to have deliverables, as we call them, in the White House press corps, for a summit like this. SCIUTTO: Yes.
COLLINS: One question is, when we eventually hear what those are, does China stick to them?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
COLLINS: Because obviously, we've seen this before, where they've announced something, and then China actually doesn't follow through on it.
SCIUTTO: There are going to be some big numbers that come out of this meeting. Talk of a major deal for Boeing jets, likelihood that China buys soybeans once again. That might sound familiar because, you had a similar commitment to the first administration, which, by the way, to your point, Kaitlan, China did not entirely fulfill, as well as perhaps other technology products, so, and that will be good, that will be good for U.S. businesses.
But again, watch that over time to see if China delivers. Then the question becomes, what does the U.S. give in return. And I'll tell you, there's enormous concern, particularly in Taiwan, that Trump gives ground on Taiwan that might not seem important to him, but certainly would be to Taiwan. Any sort of dilution of the U.S. commitment to Taiwan would be seen as a win for Beijing, and would strike fear in the hearts of Taiwanese leaders.
COLLINS: Well, Karim, on that front. I mean, a lot of Americans are going to be watching this meeting, while thinking about how much it costs to fill up their tank the next day. Or, Republicans who are on Capitol Hill defending these higher gas prices and the war in Iran.
When you look at this meeting and how much the war looms over it, how much would you say that it does for this coming up?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, IRAN EXPERT: It absolutely is going to be a top-tier issue for President Trump, Kaitlan.
And as Jim put it well, you can understand the President's ambivalence. Because, on one hand, no country wields more leverage over Iran than China. 90 percent of Iran's oil exports go to China. At the same time, if you're asking China for a favor, they're not going to do it for free. I call it the three Ts, the concessions they will ask for Taiwan, Tariffs and Technology.
And so, I think a decent case outcome would be, you know, between the U.S. and China, I think there is the possibility for win-win negotiations in a way that you don't have that between the United States and Iran.
And I think some kind of a statement from China that they want to see the Strait of Hormuz go back to being an international waterway would be a positive outcome. Because, remember, Kaitlan, China has even closer relations with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, which are Iran's regional rivals. And for those countries, the reopening of the Strait is existential.
COLLINS: What about, Karim, the blockade, though? I mean, obviously the President has kept that in place. I mean, do you think that's something that Xi will bring up with Trump?
SADJADPOUR: These things are all interrelated. So, Iran has its hands on the throat of the global economy, trying to spike the price of oil and force President Trump to end the blockade. At the same time, Trump has his hands on the throat of Iran's economy. And it's a test of wills. And that doesn't benefit China.
China wants to keep the free flow of oil in the region, keep oil prices down. And so, you could see a scenario where it is a -- it is a positive outcome for both China and the United States to see the Strait open. But again, back to Jim's great point, China is not going to do that for free.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
COLLINS: The three Ts. We'll be watching that closely.
Karim Sadjadpour. Jim Sciutto. Excellent reporting.
SCIUTTO: Thanks.
COLLINS: Thank you both for being here tonight.
[21:10:00]
Also joining us this hour is my congressional source who sits on the Senate Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committees. Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia.
And thank you, Senator, for being here.
Because, when the White House delayed this meeting, they thought that the war would be over by the time it was rescheduled. Obviously, we're still in the middle of it. What do you make of the different dynamics that we're about to see play out in Beijing tonight?
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Well, President Trump may have thought the war would be quick. But anybody who's paid any attention to the history of United States' wars in the Middle East would have told him, You're in a fantasyland. You know, that they sort of believed a fake narrative that they could start a war and end it in a few days. And what about the last 25 years in the Middle East would have made you believe that?
And so, that's the challenge the President has, is he's going into a situation where he had a pie-in-the-sky view of what his unwise and illegal war would produce, and he's been proven dramatically wrong, and that puts him in a weak position.
I think the bipartisan concern on Capitol Hill is, will the President try to win a short-term economic deal with China at the expense of giving away long-term national security objectives for the United States and our allies. COLLINS: Given -- I mean, I hear that concern. Given the way though, that this war is impacting Americans. Do you welcome Chinese efforts to help bring the war to an end?
KAINE: Anything that brings this war to an end would be a positive. The ceasefire we're in should be extended. The President has said he might start bombing again tomorrow. Republicans, even those who have supported the war, are telling him, Don't do this.
We had a War Powers Resolution vote today. And we had one Republican with us to say, No war against Iran without a vote of Congress, then two, then three today. My Republican colleagues are hearing in their phone calls from their constituents, This is a stupid war. We don't want to see inflation ratchet up. We don't want to see gas prices a $1.40, $1.50, and climbing higher than they were on February 27.
So, this is going to get worse and worse for the President and Congress, as my colleagues listen to their constituents. And so, anything to extend the ceasefire or end the war is smart because, the war is illegal and the war is stupid.
COLLINS: Do you -- you mentioned those three Republicans. Is there anyone else on the GOP side that you think would join you in your effort?
KAINE: I never predict what anyone else will do. I can tell you my vote, but others are going to have to decide.
COLLINS: Yes.
KAINE: But we're going to bring this vote to end the war up every week until we succeed. And as you saw today, it was a 50-49 vote. We've got three Republicans now voting with us, there shouldn't be a war without a congressional authorization.
I think the day that the Senate will vote to end this war, and it will be a historic vote when we vote to do it, is soon. I'll do everything I can to hasten it because, I represent a very military state, and my state says, this war is illegal and unwise.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, obviously, we'll see if that happens.
I don't know if you heard in the introduction, but we -- there was a moment today during a press conference that the Vice President was doing, where he was asked about the President's comment yesterday that, he doesn't think about Americans' financial situation when he's making decisions about the Iran war.
Vance said it was taken out of context.
What did you make of the Vice President's comment there?
KAINE: Well, I think President Trump, when he said he doesn't worry about Americans' financial situation? That's a self-obvious proposition. Everything the President is doing on the economy is hurting us, inflation, gas prices, et cetera. And OK, the Vice President says, Well, it was taken out of context. He's trying to cover his own backside because, he is thinking about his next gig.
This President is padding his own pocket. There was news yesterday that he may be trying to settle a lawsuit that he has filed against the IRS, where the United States government would pay him billions of dollars. This is a president who thinks about his own wallet, who thinks about his own friends. He doesn't care about everyday folks and the gas prices they're paying, the food costs or housing costs. And JD Vance is sweating that very, very significantly now.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: As we're looking ahead to the midterm elections. We heard from Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader today, who said Democrats, he thought, did the right thing in your state to redraw the congressional map.
Obviously, the Virginia Supreme Court struck it down, they said because, of procedural errors that the Democratic-led legislature made and how they placed that question on the ballot.
Do you think Democrats messed that up in your home state?
KAINE: Look, the Virginia Supreme Court said -- they threw out the votes of 3 million Virginians. It's interesting to see that in essentially the same week, where the U.S. Supreme Court took a case up that was filed by a January 6th extremist and gutted the Voting Rights Act, and southern states are now racing to do backroom deals to disenfranchise minority voters and candidates. The Virginia Supreme court threw out the votes of 3 million people.
But my advice to Virginians is, let's just do what we did last November. Last November, in Virginia, we ran on the maps that they had drawn, not our maps, and we won every statewide office, and we won multiple General Assembly seats. Let's do the same thing this November. If they're going to throw 3 million votes in the trash can, then we're going to go out with great candidates and win races. That's the way you strike back.
COLLINS: Senator Tim Kaine, thank you for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE.
KAINE: Absolutely.
COLLINS: Up next. There's been a shocking reversal that happened this afternoon. That's in South Carolina, where the Supreme Court overturned Alex Murdaugh's double murder convictions of his wife and son. What's behind that unanimous decision, and what happens next?
And also today, the Vice President wasn't the only person in Washington asked about the President's comments on Americans' finances. This is what Speaker Mike Johnson had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I don't know the context in which he made that comment. But I can tell you, the President thinks about Americans' financial situations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Alex Murdaugh is no longer a convicted murderer. In a stunning opinion today, the South Carolina Supreme Court unanimously overturned his double murder conviction, and ordered a new trial for Murdaugh, that prominent attorney from South Carolina in the legal dynasty of the family that he came from, who was convicted of killing his wife and his son.
The court said his 2023 murder trial was tainted by, quote, Shocking jury interference by the county clerk, Becky Hill.
Now she testified under oath, during Murdoch's appeal, denying that there was any interference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK HARPOOTLIAN, ATTORNEY AND FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE SENATOR: Did you tell the jury not to be fooled by the evidence presented by Mr. Murdaugh's lawyers?
MARY REBECCA "BECKY" HILL, FORMER COLLETON COUNTY CLERK OF COURT: Mr. Harpootlian, I never talked to the jurors about any of the evidence in this case.
HARPOOTLIAN: The answer would be yes or no. Then you can explain. Did you say that?
HILL: No.
HARPOOTLIAN: OK. Did you all -- did you ever instruct the jury to watch him closely, immediately before he testified, looking at his actions, looking at his movements? Did you ever tell a jury to do that?
HILL: No.
HARPOOTLIAN: Did you ever tell the jury to pay attention to Mr. Murdaugh's testimony?
HILL: To pay attention, not specifically to his testimony. I did tell the jury to pay attention.
HARPOOTLIAN: To what?
HILL: Just generally, in the hallway, when I was speaking.
HARPOOTLIAN: Not to him? HILL: No.
HARPOOTLIAN: Just to any witness?
HILL: Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But one juror later told the court that Hill allegedly said, quote, "Watch his actions," when Murdaugh took the stand, and told the jury, quote, "Not to be fooled" and, quote, "This shouldn't take us long." Now, that juror said, those comments, quote, Made it seem like he was already guilty.
Now, Hill was charged last May with perjury, obstruction of justice and misconduct, for making sealed evidence available to the media, for lying under oath about doing so, and for using her court position to promote her tell-all book about the trial, a trial which now apparently will have a sequel.
My Law and Justice sources are here.
CNN Legal Analyst, and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson.
And the former New York State Supreme Court Justice, Judge Jill Konviser.
Joey, what the what?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, it's the right call, right? Now, there was a lot of evidence, for sure, which would establish his guilt. But in the event that I even looked at a judge in front of -- excuse me, a juror in front of a judge? They go ballistic.
And matter of fact, what happens is this, Kaitlan. Before the trial starts, judges will look and they'll say, You know what? Attorneys, they're going to ignore you, and everyone's going to ignore you. Don't feel slighted. It's just part of our process.
It's a sacrosanct system. And the jurors need to be left alone to deliberate and do their job and not be influenced by anything.
Now, just quick perspective. You have these clerks, and the clerk is like the den mother of the jury, taking care of all the jury's needs, giving them the exhibits, letting them know how they can help them, saying, We're going to start quite late tomorrow. So, they establish a relationship. And that clerk is an extension of the judge.
So, imagine an influence, right? The influence that this person would have in saying those things, You can't do it. And yes, it's true, only about three jurors heard remarks like this. But it's about the -- you know, the unanimous jury has to render a verdict.
So, I think it's a right call on the merits. Everybody deserves a fair trial, even people with evidence like this, which is rather compelling.
COLLINS: Judge, what do you think?
[21:25:00]
JILL KONVISER, FORMER NY STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, FORMER NY STATE INSPECTOR GENERAL: I agree. I agree that it doesn't matter if it's one, if it's three or if it's 12 jurors. If the jury sanctum has been invaded by some information to which they are not entitled to have heard or could have swayed them? It's not a high standard. The burden is that there was some prejudice that could have been felt, that could have impacted the verdict, in this case, we're not going to allow it.
Judges routinely tell jurors, Do not discuss this case with each other. Do not read or listen to news accounts about this case. Do not do any research. There's no homework in jury service. You can only make sure you are deliberating after you've heard all the evidence in the case, and after I've instructed you on the law, and I've told you, you can begin deliberating. Otherwise you may not discuss it, you may not let anyone discuss it in front of you or tell you anything.
So, the decision here, I agree with you, was a 100 percent right, that the mistake was the post-conviction, pre-appeal, trial judge who did the hearing, which was, of course, required, and interviewed those -- interviewed those jurors, and that call was the wrong one that said that there wasn't prejudice. But clearly, there was.
Defendants have a Sixth Amendment constitutional fundamental right to a fair and impartial jury. And in this case, Murdaugh didn't get it.
COLLINS: So, we all watched this trial. I mean, half of it, more of it, was taken live here on CNN. It captivated the whole nation. We're going through that again?
JACKSON: So, we could. But here's the issue -- and there's another issue here, which the court ruled on, and it was all of this financial information that came in on the trial. Because, trials need to be about, Kaitlan, what they're about.
If it's a murder case, it needs to be a murder case.
It can't be that you have 12.5 hours of testimony, dealing with the fact that, He ripped this one off. He stole money from this one. He doesn't like this client. His business partner, he took money from him.
Why is that relevant? It's relevant because, then it becomes about the character of the individual in terms of, Do you like him? Is he a cheat? Is he a thief? And if he's those things, then he must also be a murderer.
So, what the judge also said -- the judges, five-zero, unanimously ruling here said, In the next time we go around, right, you can't admit all of that evidence. So, I think it's certainly up to the prosecutors as to whether they retry it. But I think a retrial may be in his future. COLLINS: But what -- I mean, in terms of finding a new jury. There are books. There are movies. There are podcasts. I mean, this is a very well-known case now. Perhaps if they're going forward.
KONVISER: Well that doesn't mean we're not going to have another trial, right? Everyone knew who O.J. Simpson was, and there was still a trial, presumably a fair one.
So, we're going to be able to make sure that, you know, you can have a judge is going to say, You can't sit on this case, if there is something that you have heard or read or studied or learned that would prevent you from being fair. Tell me what you know. Tell me if you can keep an open mind. Can you decide this case based on what goes on in this courtroom and not at any -- and anything else you have heard.
COLLINS: Yes.
KONVISER: And if you can do that, well, then you can serve.
COLLINS: They're going to have to take out like half my Instagram followers who all were watching this case and posting about it non- stop, as it happened.
Joey. Judge. It was great to have both of you here. Obviously, we might have you back. We'll definitely have you back, if this case does go to a retrial.
KONVISER: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next here for us on THE SOURCE. The President, as we noted earlier, said Americans' financial situations is not something that's factoring into his negotiations with Iran. That's not what the Vice President, though, or the Speaker of the House say that they heard.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: As President Trump is in Beijing right now, preparing for his first sit-down with Chinese President Xi Jinping since October. That comment that he made just before departing Washington is still reverberating.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: When you're negotiating with Iran, Mr. President, to what extent are Americans' financial situation motivating you to make a deal?
TRUMP: Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters, when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about Americans' financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: It's quite a remarkable comment.
Though, it seems as if not everybody heard what the President had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you agree with the President's position that Americans' financial situations should not be a consideration in that decision- making process?
VANCE: Well, I don't think the President said that. I think that's a misrepresentation of what the President said.
But of course, the President and the entire team, we care about the American people's financial situations.
JOHNSON: I don't know the context in which he made that comment. But I can tell you, the President thinks about Americans' financial situations. I talk to him on average twice a day, sometimes three or four times a day, and we talk about it constantly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I'm joined tonight by my political sources.
Jamal Simmons is the former deputy assistant to President Biden.
And Scott Jennings is the former Special Assistant to President George W. Bush.
And Scott, I mean, maybe they can say they didn't hear the comment or it was taken out of context. But Americans can kind of hear it for themselves.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, HOST, "THE SCOTT JENNINGS RADIO SHOW" ON SRN: Sure, you can listen to the comment.
But you could also ask yourself, If you're the President of the United States and you're negotiating on a national security situation with a hostile foreign enemy, are you really going to walk in the room, or send emissaries into the room, and say, Hey, as long as I'm feeling some domestic political pressure, you may get me to walk away from this? That would be ludicrous.
[21:35:00]
The President has to be firm with Iran and has to say, I have an objective, you'll have no nuclear weapons, period, and nothing is going to stop me. And to publicly negotiate against himself and to say that he might be impacted by domestic political pressure would put him in a weakened position.
So, I understand what the President was saying, I think a smart person would understand what the President is saying here, that, We're not going to let Iran off the hook because of domestic politics. He made a decision. His judgment is, it's time to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon, and he's got to see it through.
COLLINS: Our latest poll, though, finds that 70 percent of Americans disapprove of his handling of the economy. That's a benchmark that never crossed below 50 percent in his first term, even during COVID- 19. Now, 77 percent of Americans, including a majority of Republicans, believe his policies are driving up the cost of living.
So, I mean, you're talking about how the Iran negotiators hear it. But how do Americans hear that comment?
JENNINGS: Look, the domestic politics of every election I've ever been involved in has swirled around the economy. How people feel about the economy. Yes, gas prices are up. There's no disputing that. Yes, people are still feeling cost of living. There's no disputing that.
On the other hand, the President has got a great job market. Look at the last two months. The hiring rate is good. The stock market is good. He does have -- invest -- foreign investments are good. He does have things to talk about.
But look, there's no question, every election I've ever been involved in, ever worked in, ever covered, the economic feelings of the American people have been the number one issue. That's not going to be any different this time around. And of course, that's what the purpose of campaigns are for, to explain why your policies are better than the other party's policies. And I'm sure that's what the Republicans will do this fall.
COLLINS: I mean, Jamal, that same poll found that Democrats are now more trusted than the Republicans are to handle economic issues. As you know, that definitely is not always the case. But is cutting that ad with the President's comment enough there for Democrats? Or do they have plans to actually address Americans' huge concerns over the economy?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRES. BIDEN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR TO VP HARRIS: First of all, Kaitlan, it's taking everything in me not to take my tie off to try to compete with Scott in this video, where he's--
COLLINS: Yes. Can you explain where Scott is?
SIMMONS: Where he's--
COLLINS: Scott, there's a reason you're dressed in casuals tonight on a Wednesday.
SIMMONS: I love it.
JENNINGS: This is like casual rural Scott for the--
COLLINS: Yes, OK, casual rural Scott.
SIMMONS: I love it.
COLLINS: Go ahead, Jamal, with your tie.
SIMMONS: All right.
Well, so listen, I think what makes America stronger, what makes the President stronger, is when America is unified behind the President's policy.
And I think what's happening, right now because, of the war in Iraq (ph) and people being so mystified about why we're there, why we're there now, what -- why we're there now, and what the outcome is to be, it's very hard for Americans to come together around this, while gas prices and all the other prices are going up.
So, the President would do well, if he has to go into an international negotiation, to speak to the American people and tell them like, I'm fighting for you in this particular instance. And once they know that, when he goes in there to talk to the Chinese, they'll know he has the American people with him, and that will strengthen his hand at the table.
I've been a part of a lot of international meeting preparations, and I got to tell you, when the leader goes in to talk is much better when they've got a unified group behind them that's going to help make their point even stronger.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, we talked about the dynamics at play in Beijing tonight.
But Scott, I mean, back in Washington, this is a question. It's being asked to the Vice President. It's being asked to the House Speaker. Senate Republicans are defending the President's push for up to a billion dollars in security upgrades for the ballroom. The Reflecting Pool updates are now costing over $13 million. Initially, the President said, closer to $2 million.
Do you worry about those dynamics for Republicans who are up for reelection this fall?
JENNINGS: Look, I worry about one thing, and that is the Republican Party making an argument this fall that its policies are ultimately, in the long run, better for the American people.
Do you want lower taxes? We delivered it. Do you want a more robust domestic energy sector? We're delivering that. Do you want better national security? We're delivering that. On America's 250th birthday, do you want people who are proud of our country or who demean our country and think it's rotten at its core? We're delivering that. That's the kind of messaging that I think -- and do you want a political party that cares about citizens or illegal aliens? We're delivering that.
You know, there's plenty of messaging room for the Republicans to run this fall. It doesn't make them immune from environmental dynamics, such as gas prices, or feelings about the economy, or anything else. But it also doesn't mean they have to sit in the corner and suck their thumb. They can make a proactive argument about what they're doing, and why they're doing it, and why the Democrats suck. And that's what I expect them to do, and I expect the President to push them to do that.
SIMMONS: Well, the challenge they have here, Kaitlan, is going to be the same challenge the Biden administration had in many ways, which is that the facts just don't support the arguments. Right?
So, they say that they wanted President Trump to deal with the economy, and prices are still -- deal with inflation. And prices are still up.
They wanted him to deal with the Epstein files. They had to fight to get the Epstein files out.
They wanted the President not to go into foreign wars. We're in a foreign war we don't understand why and what's going on.
It's like they're making it up as they go, and the American public feels like we just don't know what's coming next, and whether or not the entire MAGA Republican Party ought to be trusted with every single lever of the government, if this is how they're going to use it.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Yes, it's some brutal numbers that the President will be coming back to this week.
Jamal Simmons. Scott Jennings, sans tie. Thank you both for being here tonight.
SIMMONS: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Meanwhile, any moment now, the President, and the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, they are going to be meeting. We have cameras there live on the ground, as so many of these thorny issues are now looming over an already-challenging high-stakes meeting for the President.
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[21:45:00]
COLLINS: Any moment now, we will see President Trump as he gets in his motorcade, and heads for his meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping. A high-stakes moment, where those two leaders of the world's two largest economies are going to be negotiating, we believe, over trade, as the United States war with Iran is looming in the background.
My colleague, Kristen Holmes, is live on the ground in Beijing.
And Kristen, obviously, the President has not just a lot of his own senior aides there helping him and there to assist on this high-stakes trip. There's also a ton of business leaders and a lot of wealth that flew over there on Air Force One from some of the wealthiest American companies.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Kaitlan. I mean, President Trump is bringing these CEOs to try and get some of these private sector deals. He knows that China wants to be doing business with a lot of these CEOs, and a lot of these CEOs also want to be doing business with China in turn. So, let's take a look at who's here.
We have Tim Cook from Apple.
Elon Musk, obviously, CEO of X, Tesla, SpaceX.
We have Jensen Huang of Nvidia, and that's an interesting one, Kaitlan. Because, Nvidia actually wants to get China to restart the imports of their chips.
Kelly Ortberg of Boeing. That's another thing that's likely to come up here, the U.S. selling Boeing jetliners to China.
Larry Fink of BlackRock, David Solomon of Goldman Sachs, and then there's a number of other executives there.
I mean, we know that the AI race is going to be a big topic of conversation here. You can see that President Trump has shown up with these tech titans. He wants to come into this with a strong show of force in order to actually have a bargaining chip at the table.
So, we're likely to come out of this with a number of private sector deals, as well as some of those public sector deals, which will be the government purchasing Boeing, for example, from the United States.
COLLINS: Kristen, one thing I was thinking about, and you know this from covering the White House, is they all -- a lot of them flew over there, on Air Force One with the President.
There's not a lot of space to sleep on Air Force One. I mean, even senior aides, you know, I've heard from before, sometimes sleep on conference room floors, or in just chairs, sitting up. I mean, there's not a ton of space for them, actually, on a trip as long as this one. So, obviously, we'll be waiting to see what that looks like.
Kristen Holmes, stick with us. We're going to check back in with you in just a moment, as the President is headed to this meeting now. The pool has confirmed he is rolling to this meeting in his motorcade.
And as we wait for this meeting to get kicked off. CNN's Fareed Zakaria is also here, the host of, of course, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."
Fareed, what are you going to be watching for in this meeting, in terms of, are we going to see Xi Jinping say something directly to the President about Iran? What are you expecting?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: I suspect, the Chinese are very formal.
They very rarely will reveal publicly what they are really talking about privately. I don't know if you remember, there was a time when Justin Trudeau let slip what he and Xi Jinping had been talking about, and Xi was visibly upset about it, and told him, That's not how this is supposed to work.
So, I suspect what we will see will be all formalities and that kind of thing. Tough for President Trump because, he likes to -- he likes to, actually just tell you what's going on.
I suspect the big -- the issue that Trump will want to come away from is some kind of economic deal where there's a talk about the Chinese buying goods, investing in America. The Chinese will want some lowering of tariffs.
The hot button, of course, is Taiwan. The Chinese have indicated that they would like to see some shift in America's position on Taiwan. I doubt that they're going to get something on it.
So, my guess is that this is going to be a little bit more practical and nitty-gritty and not a transformative set of meetings. But you know, I suspect that there will be progress on most of the big economic issues that both sides want.
COLLINS: Well, when you were in China, last month, talking to officials ahead of this meeting. What did they tell you about what to expect?
ZAKARIA: What they were hoping for was some movement on Taiwan.
What they were hoping for was some movement on tariffs. They believe that China unjustly has these very high tariffs against it. It's a little complicated now because, so many of Trump's tariffs have been rolled back by the courts that it's not exactly clear what the tariffs on China are, but they are higher than other countries, and he certainly has the ways he can get them higher.
[21:50:00]
But for them, the main issues were Taiwan, tariffs, and to a certain extent, a sense from the United States that there was a workable relationship, going forward, not a kind of race to demonize China, decouple, et cetera.
For Trump, I think it's, you know, somebody said -- well, what was it? The 3Bs, Beans -- you know, the three sets of goods that he -- Beans, Boeing and something else. He's trying to get the Chinese to buy American stuff, and agriculture is a big part of it, aircraft is a big part of it. And if they can -- if he can get them to announce some big purchases, that's what he's going to be looking for.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, he also wants them to open up Chinese -- the Chinese economy to these American CEOs and a lot of the CEOs that are traveling with him. I mean, you just heard Kristen listing them out. Elon Musk, Tim Cook, Jensen Huang, from X, Apple, and Nvidia. Also, we've got reps from Meta, Boeing, those other major companies.
What does that look like when they're all gathered there, when they are eventually all in front of Xi Jinping together?
ZAKARIA: Well, a lot of those companies have businesses in China. I mean, Tesla sells lots of cars in China, and it's facing stiff competition. Tesla's market share is declining, not because the Chinese government is stopping them, but because the Chinese have a ferociously competitive EV market at home. Most of the ones you mentioned, I think, other than Meta, actually do operate there.
But you're right. Trump is looking for more market access to China. My sense, Kaitlan is, if it's about this kind of stuff, the Chinese are happy to deal. They're happy to do, be transactional. They're happy to say, In return for you lowering tariffs this much, we'll allow the American banks to own five -- 10 percent more of their joint ventures in China.
The issue that they find with Trump is he's very unpredictable, he's very disruptive, and he does things like the Iran war, which completely disrupt and upend their planning. I mean, the Chinese get a lot of imported energy out of the Persian Gulf. And I think they find that -- it's the wildcard of Trump that they find harder to understand and deal with. Trump, as a transactional businessman? They're happy to cut a deal.
COLLINS: Well, we'll see if any of those deals are cut.
Obviously, we're seeing movement here on the ground in Beijing. We are waiting for the President to arrive any moment now, as that's going to happen.
Fareed Zakaria, standby.
Because the summit is about to kick off, and we have live coverage of it right after this.
[21:55:00]
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COLLINS: Any moment, President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping will be meeting face-to-face in Beijing. That's where my colleague, CNN's Kristen Holmes is live on the ground.
And Kristen, obviously we're watching all of the gathering delegation here. The President has a ton of his Cabinet and senior staff there. What are you hearing about expectations for this meeting, in front of the cameras and off-camera?
HOLMES: Well, I'm hearing it's unlikely that the President or President Xi are going to take any questions. Now, of course, the press pool is -- the U.S. press pool is likely to shout questions at them.
But remember what we've seen now, when President Trump has these meetings, particularly with these strongmen, like President Xi, back in October, in Busan, didn't take questions. Same with in Alaska, with Putin, didn't take questions. This is something that looks completely different from what we're used to, which is these bilateral meetings in the Oval Office, and which President Trump kind of turns them into an ongoing press conference.
So, we don't expect to have any kind of question and answer, even if there is an opportunity for the pool to shout questions, and that's going to be President Trump deferring to President Xi here. He is, of course, on his home turf.
Now, in terms of those bi-lat meetings, there's going to be two of them. A more intimate, closer-knit group in the first bi-lat, which we should get a spray of. And then, we are going to -- which, of course, is video. And then, we're going to see an expanded bilateral meeting.
And what I'm watching for in that first meeting is whether or not the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, is in it. Because, it's really going to show you what President Trump is prioritizing on this trip. If the Secretary of Defense is in this close-knit group for the first bilateral meeting, it's going to really show that he's going to focus on the war in Iran because, he's going to meet his top officials there.
It is very rare for a Secretary of Defense to even be on this kind of trip. This is being sold as a diplomatic trip. We have the Secretary of State there. We have some of the President's closest aides. We saw Stephen Miller, James Blair, all walking in. The Secretary of Treasury. We know they're doing economic deals.
But the fact that Pete Hegseth set is even on the ground there, and that he flew on Air Force One, alongside President Trump, just goes to show you where so much of the focus of this administration, of this White House, is right now. So, we'll see if he goes into that first meeting. Then we'll have a better idea of what the focus is there.
And then those business ideas are likely to come up in the second part of this, in which they expand this bilateral meeting. We also saw Elon Musk going in with the delegation, as well as Jensen Huang. They are the two CEOs that flew on Air Force One with President Trump. It will be interesting to see if they're in that expanded bi-lat meeting as well. We know that they want to be doing more business with China, and China wants to be doing more business with them.
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Yes.
And I should note, as you're mentioning the slew of officials there, we are watching them, as they are awaiting President Trump's arrival, including Secretary Bessent, Secretary Hegseth, Jamieson Greer and Stephen Miller, Secretary Marco Rubio.
Also, for those watching, yes, that was Lara Trump and Eric Trump, members of the President's family who are also accompanying him on this trip.
Kristen Holmes, stick with us. We're going to continue to cover this, here on CNN, and that's going to continue with Abby Phillip.
