Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Source: Trump's Acting Intel Chief Begins Large-Scale Firings; Trump Claims Lifting Sanctions On Iran Helps U.S. Farmers; Elon Musk Threatens To Sue Dem Rep. Ro Khanna. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 22, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: President Trump's acting Director of National Intelligence has been on the job less than a week, and already, one source tells CNN, the deep state firings have begun.
I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, sources say large-scale firings have begun at the agency that was created to prevent another 9/11. Just days into his new job, acting Director of National Intelligence, Bill Pulte, who has no national security or intel experience, has started making cuts to his office that oversees 18 intelligence agencies within the federal government. Pulte, by the way, still has his top federal Housing job.
It's unclear at this hour how many people Pulte has fired. But CNN previously reported that Pulte was looking to get rid of hundreds of roles, with President Trump's blessing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Bill Pulte's very good. He's very talented. Done a great job at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac.
REPORTER: And you want him to cut the number of people working there?
TRUMP: I wouldn't mind. I've heard that's way too high for way too long. Yes, I wouldn't mind. If he cut, I wouldn't mind that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Pulte was in the Oval Office today, when Trump signed an executive order on a different matter.
When asked about the firings, a White House official pointed us to Trump's recent post on Truth Social, in which he telegraphed downsizing in the office.
Pulte also made no secret of his plans, last week, when he showed up to his new job a day early and asked for a list of every employee in the office, a move that even caught outgoing Director Tulsi Gabbard off guard. We're told the National Counterterrorism Center and the National Counterintelligence and Security Center are expected to be hit very hard. My lead sources tonight are:
Former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe.
And former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.
All right, Andy, now that we've gotten word that these firings have started, what's your reaction?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Stunned. I was stunned.
So, let's think about this. Bill Pulte has zero intelligence experience, never been in the military, never served in law enforcement. He's not been associated with any of the 18 separate government agencies that currently make up the intelligence community. So, if charged with culling the workforce by 20 percent, 30 percent, 40 percent, 50 percent, how on earth will this guy know who to fire?
I'm told that one of the other questions, his first questions, when he arrived, last Friday, at the DNI, was he inquired as to would he get a security clearance, and what kind would it be?
He doesn't know already that the job he's stepping into will enable him to have every piece of the government's most sensitive intelligence? Not just secret. Not just top secret. Codeword- protected, ultra-sensitive programs that identify human sources that identify exquisite cyber collection platforms. All of that could cross his desk at any moment, and he doesn't know what sort of security clearance he has?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Let me add to that a little bit, and as to why the timing of this is just so disastrously bad right now.
We are, right now, as a country, coming out of a military conflict with a state sponsor of terror. Right now, there are hundreds of thousands of visitors in the country for the World Cup, coming from God knows where, all over the planet. And, most importantly, we're about to have national celebrations around the nation's 250th.
If there was ever a point at which the nation is probably its most vulnerable to a terrorist attack, it's right now, it's this month. And the idea of willy-nilly coming in and just firing hundreds, or however many people from the nation's intelligence apparatus is just dangerous. Not even -- it's just a ridiculously stupid idea, even acknowledging that government could be more efficient and smaller.
KEILAR: It's such a good point.
WILLIAMS: Right.
KEILAR: Because this is a particularly sensitive time.
And I wonder, Andy, if you can sort of shed light on these two offices in particular that are expected to be hit very hard here. MCCABE: Yes, so the counter -- excuse me. The Counterterrorism Center, NCTC is probably the better-known, and it is quite frankly the more active one.
In my own experience, worked very closely with all the people who served as directors of that organization when I was running the FBI's counterterrorism program. Their job is to see everything, to see exactly what the agency is doing operationally, to see everything that NSA is collecting, and to see everything the FBI collects.
We spent years getting them access to FBI -- raw FBI FISA data. And to do with that unparalleled vision, they're able to tip off other agencies to say, Hey, the agency has a program doing this. This is maybe connected to something you're doing. You should talk to them about it.
[21:05:00]
They don't do operations. They don't get in the way of what your operators are trying to do on the ground. But they provide that one look over the whole perspective.
KEILAR: But that really points to -- speaks to your point, which is, this is a very -- these are very important offices at a crucial time. And I do wonder, considering that Bill Pulte is acting DNI--
WILLIAMS: Right.
KEILAR: --is there any potential legal challenge, Elliot, here that might be made?
WILLIAMS: Not necessarily to the personnel points, only because directors of agencies do have some latitude to terminate people. Now, certainly, if they're not following process or procedures, and of course, those people who are fired or put on leave can challenge.
I actually think there's bigger challenges just to the fact that he's in that role on an acting basis. As Andy knows very well, there are a few jobs in government that cannot be filled, or functions can't be performed, by someone who's in an acting role. For instance, the FBI director or deputy director can't say -- you know, can't issue FISA warrants or sign them--
MCCABE: That's right.
WILLIAMS: --if he or she is serving in an acting capacity. You need someone who is Senate-confirmed in these jobs. Not just for the good of government. Because the law says so. And so, there might be circumstances where he takes an action as acting head of ODNI, that's an invalid action that gets challenged in court.
KEILAR: Let's take a listen to what President Trump said about Pulte serving as acting Director. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: But he's not going to be permanent because, you know, I don't think he'd want to be permanent. But he's a very smart guy, and he may find out some things about the rigged elections, et cetera, et cetera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: All right. Is that the job of DNI? Does that have anything to do with election interference, Andy?
MCCABE: No. No. It's not the job. It's never been the job. It should not have been the job when Tulsi Gabbard tried to insert herself into it, and it should definitely not be the job for Bill Pulte. There is no role for intelligence collection agencies to start meddling or looking into the way Americans submit their votes. Period. Full stop. There is no role for federal intelligence in that process.
WILLIAMS: If you squint really hard, you can maybe see a tenuous tie to the fact that if foreign entities are meddling in American elections, there's an intelligence component to it. But that's not what he's talking about.
MCCABE: No.
KEILAR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: He's talking about rigged elections and all kinds of nonsense and conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with it.
MCCABE: Nonsense.
WILLIAMS: He's taking a word that's sort of in people's heads, they think voting and intelligence, and it's just not the case.
MCCABE: And again, even if another agency collects--
WILLIAMS: Yes.
MCCABE: --a piece of intelligence that indicates a foreign government is targeting one of our elections? That's the sort of thing that typically folks at the DNI, and NCTC, or in the Counterterrorism -- I'm sorry, the Counterintelligence Center would tip. They would -- they would hand that off likely to the FBI because, the FBI is the only entity in the IC, the Intelligence Community, that is authorized to work with the data and information of Americans.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
KEILAR: Yes.
Andrew McCabe. Elliot Williams. Thank you so much for taking us through that.
WILLIAMS: As always.
KEILAR: Appreciate it.
I do want to bring in now our next source, our congressional source on all of this and more. Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland.
Senator, what are your concerns about these cuts?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Brianna, this is a very dangerous development, and I mean, dangerous to our national security.
As you were discussing, Bill Pulte is somebody who has zero, zero, experience when it comes to national security and intelligence matters. His sort of defining mission in the Trump administration has been as a political hitman for Donald Trump, to go after his political adversaries.
And now, this is the guy who is going to be firing people with experience and expertise when it comes to our national security, intelligence matters. So, what could go wrong? I mean, this is really dangerous when you have a political hack coming into one of the most sensitive agencies that we have and begin firing people, I guess because, they don't like the advice or the evidence that they've been presented. We don't know. All we know is this can only end badly for the country.
KEILAR: We were just talking about the timing of this. This is such a crucial time, as the U.S. is negotiating with Iran during this war, as we are coming up towards the America 250th celebration here in the next couple of weeks. With that in mind, a source telling CNN, the plan was for these cuts to the NCTC, and the National Counterintelligence and Security Center. What are your particular concerns there?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, as you say, I mean, there's never a good time to get rid of people who are expert and experience when it comes to these intelligence gathering matters, but it's obviously even more dangerous when you do it at a time when the threats could be elevated, and that's exactly what Trump has done.
This is a clear signal that Trump really doesn't care about our national security. It's also coming at time, Brianna, as you know, when we're trying to reauthorize the 702 surveillance program. And I believe that program needs to be reformed. I'm among those who supports changes to it.
[21:10:00]
But what Donald Trump has done is put the whole thing on deep freeze because, he wants Pulte, in place, to do his political dirty work before he brings in somebody else. And that is clearly what Pulte's assignment is. It's, right, it's to get in there and fire a lot of people. Maybe Donald Trump doesn't like the fact that the intelligence community has -- you know, making assessments that he doesn't like, including, by the way, that invading Iran would be a bad idea for the country.
KEILAR: There is, generally, when it comes to national security and intelligence matters on the Hill, a lot of bipartisan activity. And even if there are sometimes people scoring political points publicly, there are a lot of Democrats and Republicans who see things in common behind the scenes.
What kind of discussions are you having with your Republican colleagues about your concerns?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, the biggest issue, Brianna, has been trying to get in a permanent DNI director. And as you know, Trump had nominated Jay Clayton to take the job. In my view, Jay Clayton doesn't have the experience required by the statute. But clearly, he's not somebody as reckless and dangerous to our national security as Pulte is. And so, I think a lot of Republicans and Democrats, and all of us, would like to move that process forward on the Jay Clayton nomination. Donald Trump has refused to do that.
Donald Trump has also said that he will not support any extension of FISA 702's program, including a reformed version of it, unless it also includes the so-called SAVE America Act, which is this Act designed to disenfranchise millions of American citizens from voting. So, just let that sink in. Trump has said he won't proceed with this other national security initiative unless Congress also helps him try to rig the midterms, the November midterms.
So, this is a very dangerous moment, and the fact that Pulte now has his sort of his -- able to get under the hood at DNI with all those national secrets that you were talking about is very scary. It should be scary to every one of us, regardless of party.
KEILAR: I want to ask about those negotiations with Iran that are going on. Oil sanctions, sanctions on Iranian oil being lifted, so for the first time in decades Iran is able to access money for oil sanction -- oil sales, unsanctioned.
And also, I'm wondering, what you think, as a member of both the Senate Foreign Relations and Banking Committees, when it comes to this idea of eventually unfreezing Iranian assets.
Can you clarify something that the Vice President said today about tracking any money that's returned to Iranians? Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: We actually asked the Qataris to help us set up the mechanism, so that we can ensure that the money goes where we want it to go, and they agreed to do that. We have a good relationship, obviously, with them, and a good operational oversight mechanism in place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Once that money is released, is there a way to prevent it from going to fund terrorism?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, Brianna, I think it's very hard to track the money once it's released.
But I do want to go back to the major point here, which is that it was just a huge blunder, a strategic blunder, disaster, to start this war against Iran to begin with. Right?
Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu launched this illegal war. It has strengthened Iran's hand. It's allowed us use -- it's allowed it to use its geography, over the Strait, to essentially bring to a slowdown, a lot of economic activity, of course, drive up prices, and in the process we've seen Americans killed and injured, we've seen thousands of civilians killed. There was no way this was going to end well.
I do think when you're digging a hole, you should stop digging. So, I think we should get out of this. But the original sin was starting this war, and even before that, it was when Donald Trump, in his first administration, shredded the nuclear agreement that had been negotiated by President Obama, even when the Trump administration, back then, said Iran was in compliance with the limitations on its nuclear enrichment program.
KEILAR: Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.
VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.
KEILAR: Up next. What President Trump says Iran could do with the billions in unfrozen assets. It might not be what you think.
And we have breaking new reporting on one of the notes tied to the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: Iran can now sell its oil on the global market without any U.S. sanctions for the first time since 1987, when gas averaged $0.95 a gallon. That is a major development.
Separately, as President Trump grapples with the unpopular possibility of unfreezing billions in Iranian assets, he's spinning the move as a would-be win for American farmers.
[21:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Money that's being unfrozen is going to be used to buy food, and the food is going to be bought exclusively through the United States from our farmers. And corn, soybeans, all of the things they need are going to be bought from our farmers. So, our farmers are very happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Maybe, but it was his own Vice President who pumped the brakes on taking the regime's word for what it will actually do, as he left Switzerland after meeting with Iranian negotiators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: Whether good faith or bad faith, you can't trust anybody's words. You have to trust what they actually do.
Point is not that I trust or distrust anybody. My point is that I trust actions. And what the President has asked us to do is verify what they're doing, focus less on what they're saying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Following those talks today, both Trump and Vance said Iran has agreed to allow U.N. nuclear inspectors back into the country. But in the memorandum of understanding, that issue was effectively already agreed to.
When it comes to anything beyond that, these talks are still just getting started, a point the VP made before heading home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: We laid a very good foundation for a successful final deal. The final deal is the house. We set the foundation. We haven't built the house, but we've laid a successful foundation to get to a good place for the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: One of the biggest critics of Trump's approach to removing sanctions on Iran before negotiations were done was Donald Trump himself.
Rewind to 2014, when he tweeted, Why did President Obama remove sanctions against Iran prior to negotiating rather than completing successful negotiation & then remove sanctions?
And he said things like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're giving back $150 billion to a terrorist state, really the number one terror state, we've made them a strong country from really a very weak country.
We've rewarded the world's leading state sponsor of terror with $150 billion, and we received absolutely nothing in return.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: White House sources say, these negotiations are very different from the situation, back in 2014, and that is true because, as the President made clear today, the threat of a global economic depression now hangs over the outcome of these talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Nuclear weapon supersedes depression. Depression is real bad. Nuclear weapon will cause depression much more quickly. The way we're doing it, we have the opposite of a depression.
But I didn't say it would cause a depression. I said it could cause a depression, right? And I said that I don't want to be Herbert Hoover. That's a president I don't want to be because he, you know, he was in charge during the Great Depression. And certainly, a lot of bad things could happen, that would be one of the things. I don't think it would, but if it did. But no, if -- if Iran doesn't live up to their agreement, or if they're not behaving, I will -- I will do what I have to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: My source is an Iran expert, senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Karim Sadjadpour.
Karim, thank you so much for being with us.
And maybe you can explain this to us. What does history tell us about how Iran could actually spend money that it immediately receives from oil sales.
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Well, it's a very good question, Brianna.
And this is a unique moment in history, and that what President Trump has done in the last four months is go from the one extreme of a policy, which is to try to essentially pursue regime change in Iran. And four months later, it's the exact opposite policy, which is to try to open up Iran economically and accommodate them.
And the reality is that we haven't seen any evidence that this is a regime which has changed its ideology, its conduct, and its worldview. And so, there's no guarantee that this money is going to go to help the people in Iran. It's most likely going to go to entrench the regime.
KEILAR: So this -- and this idea of actually seeing inspectors of Iran's nuclear program in the country. How much stock do you put in that until you see them there, when you hear Iran agreeing to let them in.
SADJADPOUR: Well, there's such profound mistrust between the United States and Iran, I think it's unlikely that Iran is going to allow nuclear inspectors to go and look at very sensitive areas. So, this is something -- you never celebrate that as a victory until after -- after it happens.
KEILAR: Until you actually see it.
The Strait of Hormuz is obviously key here. If it fully reopens -- because there are still parts of it that are not traversable, right? So you have ships, as they are going through, having restricted passage. If it does continue to stay open, and that's what's going to determine if there's not going to be a depression like the President was outlining there.
Here's what Trump is saying about the Strait.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As long as they respect us -- I don't want to use the word, fear. Because that's an inappropriate word. But as long as they respect us, we're not going to have any trouble. We have total control of the Strait.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
KEILAR: We have total control of the Strait.
Is that true? Considering even just looking at the President's own words, he told Fox, this weekend, quote, You close it and you won't have a country... You won't even make it back to your effing country.
Is that an admission in a way that they do have a say in this, Iran?
SADJADPOUR: Unfortunately, it's not the United States that controls the Strait. It's Iran. Even in the memorandum of understanding that was signed, we seemed to cede the idea that after 60 days, Iran could well control the Strait.
Senior Iranian officials, as recently as a couple hours ago, said the Strait will never go back to the status quo ante of being an international waterway. This is now an Iranian waterway, and they're going to use that as a fixed revenue stream, and to deter future attacks from the United States and Israel.
KEILAR: That is just the reality of this.
Vice President Vance, talking about this kind of back and forth that we've seen between Iran and the President, he called this trash talk. Here's what else he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: What we told the Iranians, yesterday, is when you guys engage in what us millennials might call trash talk, you can't expect the President of the United States not to respond and not to correct the record.
So, when they say things that aren't true, the President is going to respond to it, I'm going to respond to it, Americans are going to respond to it. When they make threats that aren't rooted in reality, they have to accept that the President of the United States is actually going to set the record straight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: OK, whatever you call it. The thing that he -- that he's not actually saying is that, he's behind the scenes, having to talk to the Iranians and negotiate. The President is negotiating in public. These are like two different tracks that are happening. How difficult does that make negotiations?
SADJADPOUR: Well, I think Vice President Vance, in particular, is in a very difficult position because, he's now going to be viewed as the architect of these negotiations, which have a very high risk of failure.
And so, for him, you know -- what was interesting was when Joe Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, people thought that he was going to be credited by the American public for ending this war, which was unpopular. But what the public doesn't also want is military humiliation.
And I think that Vice President Vance is putting himself in a difficult position, and that he requires the cooperation and goodwill of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards for this outcome to be successful.
KEILAR: I mean, that's really saying something.
Karim, thank you so much. Really appreciate the analysis.
SADJADPOUR: Sure.
KEILAR: And we do have some breaking news related to the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie, the mother of "Today" show anchor, Savannah Guthrie.
Multiple law enforcement sources, briefed on the investigation, tell CNN that a note sent to media outlets, at the time of her disappearance, said that she had died. This followed another note that demanded a ransom of millions of dollars. Investigators believe that both were legitimate communications from those responsible for her abduction.
According to law enforcement sources, the kidnapper or kidnappers said in the second note that they did not mean to kill Nancy, but that she died shortly after she was taken from her home near Tucson, Arizona.
At the time, you may recall, the family responded with an emotional video, where you heard Savannah saying, We got your message and we understand.
We have former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe, back as my source tonight on this.
It's heartbreaking now.
MCCABE: Yes, absolutely.
KEILAR: It makes so much sense understanding what the family was dealing with as they made that video. But it's heartbreaking.
And I just wonder, as you were looking at this, does this explain why the investigation looked like it did. Does this answer questions for you? Does this raise questions for you?
MCCABE: I think both, right? It definitely explains some things.
It was striking to me, when the second note came in, well, 18 weeks ago, or whatever that was, and law enforcement indicated publicly that they believe that this note was legitimate. And the reason they did was because there were other details in the note that they -- that they revealed, like the person who had sent it included details about where particular pieces of evidence were located in the residence, and that lined up with what they saw when they conducted the investigation. So they have, from the very beginning, indicated that they thought those first two notes were from the same person and were legitimate.
Finding out now that that second note revealed that Nancy did not survive the kidnapping is absolutely heartbreaking and awful. I cannot imagine what Savannah, and her family are going through.
But it does make sense in an overall perspective. From the beginning, many of us have been saying, she's such a vulnerable victim. She was an elderly woman, had mobility issues, significant health issues, had that cardiac monitor installed, which we know stopped picking up a signal, that evening that she was taken. So, it seems to make sense with the other details that we know.
[21:30:00]
Now, I should say that this kidnapping, from the very beginning, never conformed to the many typical things that you see with kidnappings. There were lots of things about the first and second note that were just odd, kind of not what you would expect to see from someone who had done this before or really knew what they were doing.
KEILAR: Which might be because what was a kidnapping then turns into a murder.
MCCABE: Turned into a murder.
KEILAR: What do you make of the timing? I think the hope -- the hope is always that this family will get answers, that they'll know what happened, that there will be some type of closure. What do you make of the timing now in terms of that?
MCCABE: So, I can't say what the agents are thinking on the ground. But I can tell you, from my own experience, one of the things that stands out to me in that -- in what is allegedly in the second note, is this kind of apology for the death. And I've got to -- you know, I would feel like that's something -- that's an element that you would really want to work as an investigator.
If you could communicate to that person in a way that you've made contact around that idea, like acknowledging that some part, they've done a horrible thing, but there is a piece of remorse built into that statement, and maybe you can use that as leverage to actually get them to reveal information about where she is, so that she could be returned to her family.
KEILAR: It's not an outright apology, right, but just this idea of like pulling on a thread of remorse?
MCCABE: It's an acknowledgement of like--
KEILAR: Yes.
MCCABE: --we didn't -- you know, this wasn't what they expected. They are somehow revealing something in a--
KEILAR: Yes.
MCCABE: --in an almost regretful way, like that might be--
KEILAR: Yes.
MCCABE: --a door or a window opening, just a little bit, that you could use to gain some information about where Nancy is located.
KEILAR: Andy McCabe, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
MCCABE: Yes, sure.
KEILAR: Next. $14 million spent, multiple new security cameras, and an arrest of, yes, a former Olympian? What's happening at the Reflecting Pool?
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: Tonight. More Reflecting Pool problems here in Washington. President Trump says it will need to be drained to fix damage that he claims was caused by vandals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We also fixed the Reflecting Pool. In fact, if you go over there right now, it looks very good. It's up. They put, somebody said, fertilizer in the water. If you put fertilizer in the water, you get algae. But somebody said they might have put fertilizer.
They did something to create the algae, but that doesn't matter because, that's been purified. It's dead, laying at the bottom. They're taking it out. They vacuum it out, they vacuum it very carefully out, and it'll be back to health pretty soon. We're going to have to let the water out to fix the one little -- there's two little areas, very little areas where they were cut, and we'll fix that, but it's not leaking or anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: CNN's team spotted more signs of algae at the Pool this morning. We also saw at least six new trailers in the surrounding area, hooked up with security cameras.
A senior administration official telling CNN, police have arrested five people for vandalism and issued federal citations to five others. One of those people, former Olympic canoeist, David Hearn, who told CNN that police arrested him after he touched a flap of blue material that had partially detached from the bottom of the Pool. He says he didn't break anything.
The President, though, says anyone caught either destroying or attempting to destroy the Pool could face up to 10 years in prison.
My political sources are here to talk about this.
Karen Finney, senior adviser to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign.
And Scott Jennings, former special assistant to President George W. Bush.
OK. Scott, first to you. I mean, paint the pool blue and scream about the green hue. Is he in danger of looking a bit like the Queen of Hearts here with this paint the roses red and off with their head business?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, AUTHOR, "A REVOLUTION OF COMMON SENSE": Well, I think he's in danger of looking like he cares about Washington, D.C., looking as best as it can, for America 250, and that's what this is all about.
They've fixed a bunch of fountains in town, they've cleaned up the city, the streets are safer, and he wants a Reflecting Pool to look nice for America 250. I don't think you can fault the President for that. In fact, Barack Obama also tried to work on the Reflecting Pool as well.
I think it's a good thing, honestly, that we have a president that's taken some interest in trying to fix up the city, including this Reflecting Pool. I wish him well in his battle against the algae. It's the summer, and this is a stagnant pool of water in the middle of a swamp. Algae is basically undefeated for 1.6 billion years. It's hard to get rid of. I fight it myself back on the property back in Kentucky. And so, I wish him well.
But overall, I'm very happy with the President's efforts to beautify Washington, D.C. A lot of things have been neglected for too long, and he's taking care of quite a few of them. So, good luck to the President on this. I think he's already made a tremendous progress.
KEILAR: Yes, algae is a pain. My kids have a fish tank, which is to say I have a fish tank, and it's a real -- it is a pain.
(LAUGHTER)
But Karen, in all seriousness here.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FMR. SR. ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON 2016 CAMPAIGN: Yes.
KEILAR: These prosecutions that Jeanine Pirro is saying that she's going to do. FINNEY: Yes. Look, it's a metaphor for so many of the things that are wrong in Trump's Washington. You would think that Jeanine Pirro has other, more important things to do than prosecute a canoeist who apparently was cycling by, and saw what was happening, and maybe put his hand in the water, and now is facing charges.
[21:40:00]
We saw reports earlier today, too, a young woman was saying, she was proactively told, Don't touch the water or you'll get arrested, and she was like, Well, I wasn't planning to touch the water, there's algae in there. So.
But I mean, it's a multi-million dollar project. The fact that it was a no-bid contract, there are questions about other things that could have been done to avoid the algae.
KEILAR: Yes.
FINNEY: Oh well.
KEILAR: Let's move from algal politics to electoral politics here.
FINNEY: Yes.
KEILAR: Maine, Karen, so important to Democrats, they need it if they're going to flip the Senate. Incumbent Republican Senator Susan Collins is on the ropes, in part because of her vote to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court.
FINNEY: Yes.
KEILAR: And he, of course, was part of that vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.
Here's what she said about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): First of all, let me make clear that I disagreed with the Supreme Court's six-to-three decision overturning Roe v. Wade. But the fact is that whether Justice Kavanaugh were confirmed or not, Roe v. Wade would have been overturned, given the six-to-three vote.
And also, I supported the justices like Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor, and Brown Jackson, Justice Brown Jackson, who voted to sustain Roe v. Wade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINNEY: Yes.
KEILAR: So, of note, the part of the Dobbs decision overturning Roe was actually five-to-four, Justice Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts joining liberal justices. FINNEY: Yes.
KEILAR: But my question to you is, is Graham Platner the best messenger for combating what she's saying here?
FINNEY: Well, here's one other problem, though, with what she's saying. She also opposed the Women's Health Protection Act, which many of us saw as a way to protect against what happened with the Dobbs decision. So, she's got some fact-checking of her own to do there.
Look, if people believe that he could be a vote in support of women's right to reproductive freedom, then, you know, again, when voters go to the polls, they'll make their decision whether or not they trust him ultimately to be that champion.
KEILAR: Scott, what do you think?
JENNINGS: Well, I think what Platner is asking for here is for senators to vote for justices that will only rule in the way that their party wants, not that justices are qualified.
What you heard Susan Collins clearly say, is she voted for justices nominated by both Republican and Democratic presidents because she thought they were qualified.
You can't make them rule a certain way. You can ask them questions. You can make assumptions. But ultimately, you put them on the Supreme Court, and they have lifetime positions for a reason because, they are going to rule according to how they think the law goes.
In her case here, she has a point. She voted for three justices that voted one way on the Dobbs decision, and she voted for one that went the other way. So, I think she thinks she's upholding her position as kind of the most moderate person in the Senate, which I think is in line with Maine voters.
KEILAR: Yes, a real race to watch here. It'll come down to what they want in Maine.
Karen. Scott. Thank you so much to both of you.
And next, a test for the future of the Democratic Party. Will the progressive candidates New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani has endorsed prevail tomorrow night?
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: As President Trump plays kingmaker of GOP politics, Democrats will soon find out if they have a new kingmaker of their own.
The power of New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani's endorsement will face its first big test when New Yorkers hit the polls in key primaries tomorrow. The Democratic Socialist has thrown his support behind several progressive candidates up and down the ballot, including two who are trying to unseat Democratic incumbents, Congressman Dan Goldman and Adriano Espaillat.
And tonight, Mamdani is defending comments that he made on the campaign trail last week, in which he condemned primary spending by pro-Israel groups.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D-NYC, NY): As Gramsci once wrote, The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.
These monsters take many forms today, in those who fund television ads that blanket the airwaves with misleading and bad-faith attacks about Claire, Brad, and Dari.
In AIPAC, for whom the only thing more frightening than democracy being allowed to run its course is an end to genocide and Netanyahu's war.
They move millions in dark money to accomplish a single goal, to preserve their power, so that they can turn us against one another, instead of our leaders turning towards the moral change we all know to be necessary.
I was quoting Gramsci, who said that, The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. I used the term to describe all those who are preventing the birth of a new world, not solely AIPAC, but frankly, super PACs at large who are spending millions of dollars in deceptive and misleading ads that are blanketing airwaves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: My congressional source on this is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California, who is an ally of Mayor Mamdani.
Congressman, thank you for being with us.
The Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee say that Mamdani used antisemitic tropes. Did his comments go too far in your view?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): All he was saying is that we should not have super PAC money. I have called for Democratic primaries not to have any super PACs. I don't want AIPAC, I don't want any super PACs. I don't have a super PAC. I don't take PAC money. And our DNC Chair, Ken Martin, is working to make that possible for the 2028 presidential race. I believe Democrats should come around on that platform. Let's get it all out.
[21:50:00]
KEILAR: Some critics say that's not all he was saying. Among them, your Democratic colleague, Congressman Josh Gottheimer, who posted, Swap "AIPAC" for "Jews" and it's the oldest antisemitic conspiracy theory in the books. That's not criticizing a lobby. That's laundering antisemitism from your podium as Mayor of a city with more than a million Jews. He said, This BS is dangerous.
What do you say to that?
KHANNA: Well, Josh is just wrong. Look, I have been proudly endorsed by J Street. I have a lot of support from the Jewish American community. I don't accept support from AIPAC. Why? Because AIPAC cheerled for Netanyahu's war in Gaza and AIPAC has cheerled for Trump's war in Iran. So, one can oppose AIPAC on philosophical grounds, and still have broad support from the Jewish American community.
I have the endorsements of every Jewish elected leader in my district, and won overwhelmingly, but I reject AIPAC because it's ideological. I also meet with AIPAC members. I just believe that we need a much more progressive vision, and that would be good both for the Palestinian aspirations and for a secure Israel.
KEILAR: The DOJ says that it has opened a civil rights investigation into a now-deleted post by a Brooklyn coffee shop.
The New York Post obtained this screenshot -- screenshot, I should say, in which the coffee shop wrote, Hey, Congressman Dan Goldman, we see that you stopped by our shop today for a coffee. Do you see how it doesn't taste like genocide juice? Or are you still having a hard time telling the difference? We issued you a refund -- we don't need your money (it's probably coming from AIPAC anyways).
What do you think about this?
KHANNA: Well, I don't think you should be doing that. Obviously, any coffee shop needs to serve any person, regardless of their religion or their faith or their political views.
But look, Brad Lander is going to win that primary overwhelmingly, and the reason he's going to win is that far more Americans support his view. They don't believe that we should have given a blanket check to Netanyahu. They are much more concerned about us spending money here on Team America, on Pennsylvania, on Ohio, on Michigan, than giving billions of dollars to Israel that already has a $45 billion defense budget. And so, I just think that people like Brad Lander are much more in touch with where the American people are, and that's going to be proven tomorrow night.
KEILAR: I want to switch topics because, trillionaire, now trillionaire, Elon Musk is threatening to sue you for saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHANNA: Once we take power, there has to be accountability. There needs to be accountability for Elon Musk. You know, they're celebrating that he created 4,400 millionaires, but they don't talk about the 4.5 million children around the world who he possibly sentenced to death by dismantling USAID. He needs to answer for that. He needs to be subpoenaed. He needs to face investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: What is your response to Elon Musk's threat?
KHANNA: Well, he's awfully thin-skinned for a person who defends himself or holds himself up as a defender of free speech.
Why don't we debate, Elon, on CNN, if you want.
The reality is people should judge me by the folks who are attacking me. Donald Trump has attacked me, relentlessly, over the past month because I, along with Thomas Massie, exposed the Epstein files, and we saw that JD Vance was in the Situation Room covering it up.
And now, I've had the guts to take on the first trillionaire, and Elon is upset because I've called for a 5 percent tax, and I've called him out for DOGE cuts that the academic studies show could have led to the deaths of millions of children. And you know what? I don't think the richest person in the world should be making decisions that lead to the deaths of the poorest, and let's have a debate of that. But don't threaten lawsuits and threaten imprisonment of people who have a political view of holding you accountable.
KEILAR: I also, though, want to mention Musk now seems to be accusing you of insider trading. Are you concerned about this? And what do you say to his allegation?
KHANNA: That's a total lie. It's been debunked by all of the people who have looked at it. My wife has premarital assets in a trust. I've been leading the charge to getting stock trading banned in the Congress. I'm a co-author of the Trust Act that would require all members to actually have their assets in a trust, and all the independent ethics groups have looked at this.
KEILAR: But what about a blind -- but the issue of maybe a blind trust?
KHANNA: Well, it's a diversified trust. It is widely diversified, and neither I or any family -- my family members know of the trades, and it complies with the Trust Act. It's exactly what the Trust Act requires. And this is not me, this is what all of the independent ethics observers have said.
[21:55:00]
And so, to take these lies is unfortunate. But you know what? I'm debating it. I'm not saying, Oh, Elon, I'm going to go sue you. Because I actually believe in speech, and I believe once you debate, we -- you actually will get to the truth. And it's just sad to me that Elon Musk, who's held himself as this champion of free speech, is afraid to debate me. If anything, I would have a better claim for defamation, but I don't believe in filing lawsuits and lawfare. I believe in free speech.
And what is sad to me is that he made DOGE cuts that led, potentially, as the academic studies show, to the deaths of millions of children, and that he's unwilling, as a trillionaire, to pay a 5 percent tax, so that we could have universal child care, universal health care in the United States of America. We can't have the lopsided, unfair economy that we do.
KEILAR: Congressman Ro Khanna, thanks for being with us. We appreciate it.
KHANNA: Thank you.
KEILAR: Next, in case you missed it last week, there's something new on THE SOURCE. How well do you know what's happening in the news? We're putting your news knowledge to the test with what we're calling the Source Code. We'll give you the number. Can you guess the story? Tonight's Source Code is 6. And we're back in a moment with the answer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
KEILAR: Tonight's Source Code is 6, and that's because the U.K. will have its sixth Prime Minister in just seven years, after Keir Starmer announced his resignation today, amid mounting pressure from his own party.
Thank you so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
