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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Blanche Nomination In Peril As GOP Senator Withholds Key Vote; Trump Vows Payback: Iran "Took A Shot, So It's Our Turn"; Fauci Invokes Fifth 100+ Times At GOP-Led COVID Response Hearing. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired July 29, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KONSTANTIN USOV, DEPUTY MAYOR OF KYIV: --daily routine for Ukrainian families. They put their kids to bed earlier, so that there is at least some sleep because Russians tend to strike at night or early in the morning.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
USOV: Then -- then you survive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Then you survive, he says.
That is all for us tonight. I'm Jim Sciutto.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts right now
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, a major blow for Democrats, as President -- for the President, I should note, as Republicans are forced to delay a vote on his pick for attorney general, hours before it was set to happen.
Senator Bernie Sanders is here to weigh in on that and more.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
And as we come on the air tonight, there's major drama that's unfolding right now on Capitol Hill, where Todd Blanche's nomination to be the next Attorney General appears to be in serious jeopardy, this evening. The Republican-run Senate Judiciary Committee has now just postponed a vote on Todd Blanche's nomination that was set to happen 12 hours from right now.
Sources say, the White House thought that Todd Blanche's appointment and confirmation was all but guaranteed. But tonight, it all comes down to this: Todd Blanche cannot afford to lose a single Republican Senate vote. And a single Republican senator might be standing in his way. That's because John Cornyn's vote comes with a condition: he wants Todd Blanche to kill that $1.8 billion Trump Anti-Weaponization Fund, legally, officially, and in writing. He's also demanding that the Justice Department clarify the settlement, and clarify that it gives President Trump protections from IRS audits, but that it only applies to ongoing IRS audits and doesn't shield him from future reviews.
So far, Senator Cornyn, who of course just lost his primary race, after President Trump endorsed his challenger, and therefore has nothing to lose here, says that Blanche has yet to meet his conditions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Have you ever heard from the DOJ at all? They've responded to you after you sent that back to them?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): As I told you earlier, it was not responsive to my concerns. I mean, we've heard from them. It's just that they refuse to commit to writing what he testified to under oath. And it's not a big ask. We're trying to help them get this solved, but they refuse to accept our help.
RAJU: You would acknowledge, though, having -- not having to run for re-election anymore has freed you up to be more independent from the President. Would you acknowledge that?
CORNYN: Have you noticed?
RAJU: Why do you think they're not getting the message from you?
CORNYN: Maybe they think they can roll me.
RAJU: Can they roll you?
CORNYN: No. No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You heard him say no there, at the end.
Meanwhile, inside the Oval Office today, President Trump appeared, and I stress the word, un-appeared, unaware when he was asked about the fact that Blanche's nomination seemed to had hit a major snag today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Todd Blanche is outstanding, and I thought he's -- I thought it was pretty routine because he's so good. You just wouldn't find a better person. So, I don't know, maybe John Cornyn's upset with me because I didn't endorse him, I don't know what it is. But I haven't heard that there's a problem. I heard he's going through quite nicely.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: That does not seem to bear out tonight.
I want to get straight to CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent, Manu Raju, who is live on Capitol Hill, with this breaking news.
Manu, what's behind this delay and postponing the vote that was supposed to happen at 09:00 a.m. tomorrow morning?
RAJU: Yes, the vote was going to fail, and Chuck Grassley, the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Kaitlan, did not want to go through with what would be a real blackmark on this nomination, and hoping that perhaps by delaying the vote, that they can salvage this nomination if the White House, if the Justice Department moves closer and really meets the demands that John Cornyn has been laying out for weeks. To ensure that that $1.8 billion weaponization fund is dead, and to deal with that settle -- that audit language that could exempt the President from tax enforcement, something that both John Cornyn and Thom Tillis have raised concerns about.
And in a statement that the Chairman of the Committee's spokesperson put out this evening, they said, Chairman Grassley works to set President Trump's nominees up for success in committee, not failure. The spokesperson went on to say, Senators Cornyn and Tillis want written assurances from the Department of Justice regarding the Trump- IRS settlement. So they decided to postpone tomorrow's vote.
[21:05:00]
So, this is significant, Kaitlan. Because, next week, the Senate is scheduled, at the end of next week, to go on a recess up until past Labor Day. Which means that the consideration for this nomination could get delayed until then, until September, unless the Justice Department changes course and goes further meeting what John Cornyn has laid out.
But if this is delayed until September or beyond, that could mean this nomination could be derailed permanently, which is why Chuck Grassley and others have been trying to win over John Cornyn. But as you heard right there, he's free from the shackles of running for re-election and aligning himself with Donald Trump. He's not afraid to buck the President. The question is, can they win him over? It doesn't seem likely at the moment, unless something significant changes.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes. We'll see if it does.
Manu Raju, keep us updated if you hear anything new from Senator Cornyn on Capitol Hill tonight.
COLLINS: Also joining me is the Independent Senator from Vermont, Senator Bernie Sanders, here on set.
I mean, this is pretty remarkable of a development. What do you make of this?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): No, I don't think it's remarkable. Cornyn lost the election--
COLLINS: Really?
SANDERS: Yes. Why? You know, Trump defeated Cornyn. I think Cornyn is now free to become a little bit more independent. You got an acting Attorney General who's trying to put through a $1.8 billion slush fund for people who attempted to overthrow the United States government. You know, pretty insane situation. But he's acting, and I suspect he'll stay on his acting, so.
COLLINS: It seems like a pretty low bar, given Todd Blanche testified that that fund was dead because it faced so much blowback.
SANDERS: Yes, well--
COLLINS: So, why not just put it in writing?
SANDERS: Yes, that's right. Because maybe--
COLLINS: To -- to--
SANDERS: --maybe it's one thing to say something; it's another thing to keep your word. Having in writing makes it clearer that that is what you got to do.
COLLINS: And so, what do you think happens here? Do you think Todd Blanche becomes the attorney general, or?
SANDERS: Who knows? He's the acting Attorney General. I don't know, between you and me, I don't know that it matters all that much. He stays on.
COLLINS: Why do you think it doesn't matter that much?
SANDERS: He's the acting Attorney General. He does what he does. He's acting as Attorney General. He would like to be officially the Attorney General, but in the great scheme of things, he continues to do what he does.
No, that he should not be in that position at all. But we are dealing with an administration that happens not to believe in the rule of law, is authoritarian, lies all the time. So, that's the way it is.
COLLINS: I want to talk about the party you caucus with.
But on Republicans in the Senate. John Cornyn, to your point, he's got nothing to lose. I mean, he's not -- he's going to be out of the Senate, come January. What does it say that he's the one who's speaking up and doing this--
SANDERS: Well, I think--
COLLINS: --not any of the other Republicans?
SANDERS: I think, Kaitlan, one of the crises that we have in this country, and why so many people are demoralized about the political process, is that you have a Democratic leadership which is way out of touch with the needs of working people, and I hope we talk about that in a second. And you have a Republican Party that, in many ways, has become a cult of the individual.
In a political party, people are supposed to have different points of view, and you're not supposed to be afraid to express your point of view. You should not be fearful of criticizing the President of the United States, even if he's in your party. You know, I like Joe Biden, I criticized him all the time on important issues.
But what is happening right now is you have an authoritarian president, does not, as a matter of fact, believe in a democracy, and essentially says, You criticize me? You go against me? Next time you're up in a primary, we will destroy you, and we got all the money in the world to do that.
It's a sad state of affairs, and I think one of the demoralizing aspects of American politics right now.
COLLINS: Yes, I think Joe Biden would agree that you did disagree with him.
You mentioned Democratic leadership. There's a huge primary happening next Tuesday in the State of Michigan. You are on a different side than a lot of mainstream Democrats are here in Washington. You're supporting Abdul El-Sayed in that race, progressive, challenger to Haley Stevens, the candidate that is backed by the more establishment picks, the leaders.
If he wins on Tuesday, what's the message? What's the singular takeaway in your view?
SANDERS: Well, it will be the continuation of a message that we've seen over the last year, and that message is that working people, most Americans, understand that our economy is rigged. The very rich are becoming much richer, while 60 percent of our people live paycheck to paycheck. They can't afford groceries, can't afford health care, can't afford child care, can't afford to retire with dignity.
So, people are seeing that, and they're looking at the Democratic establishment -- they're looking at the Republican Party, and they're saying, You got a president who is mentally unbalanced, he's an authoritarian. But what are the Democrats going to do for me? Are they going to stand up? Are they going to really deal with health care?
[21:10:00]
And what we have seen, from Mamdani's victory in New York City, to congressional victories in New York, New Jersey, Arizona, Colorado, California, Montana, and elsewhere, that people are saying, You know what? Status quo policies no longer are good enough. We want a government that works for all of us.
So, what's going on in Michigan right now -- and here's what's important: it's not just the race between Abdul And Congresswoman Stevens. What it's about is that the billionaire class and their Super PACs are now spending over $60 million to defeat El-Sayed, 60 -- more than $60 million. That's AIPAC and other powerful special interests.
What are they afraid of? And the answer is that if Abdul wins -- it's going to be a close race -- but if he's able to withstand this $60 million in expenditure, the word goes out all over the country, We can take on the oligarchs, we can take on the Super PACs, and in fact, we can create a government that works for all. That is what makes the Democratic leadership very nervous.
COLLINS: So, that's what you think makes them nervous. What some of them say makes them nervous is that if he wins, they fear he will lose to the Republican, come November--
SANDERS: Well that's -- yes, but that's what they always say.
COLLINS: --Michigan is crucial.
SANDERS: Yes, that's their line. But the truth is--
COLLINS: But you're not worried about that at all?
SANDERS: Look, I want to see the Democrats control the United States Senate.
Where we are aligned is we all want Democrats to control the Senate. We want Democrats to control the House. We want to neutralize some of Trump's disastrous, as many disastrous policies as we can. On that, we are aligned.
But philosophically, we have differences of -- very strong differences, is what kind of policies we want. Progressives believe that health care is a human right, pass Medicare for All. Progressives believe we've got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. Progressives believe we should not be giving Netanyahu's extremist government, who has committed genocide in Gaza, another nickel, et cetera, et cetera.
Politically, in my view, progressives are winning because we are rallying working people, young people, people who have given up on the political process. We have the energy; they got the money. And at the end of the day, if we can effectively organize people at a grassroots level? Mamdani did it. We did it in Colorado. We're doing it in Michigan right now. But taking on that endless amounts of money, they're losing--
COLLINS: When you say, They've got the money, you're talking about the mainstream Democrats?
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: So, if El-Sayed loses on Tuesday, are you saying that's because of the money that was in this race? Or did voters reject his platform and they chose Haley Stevens?
SANDERS: Well, if Stevens gets more money, she won, right? We don't believe every election, like Trump does, is a fraud. She would win. But on the other hand, you tell me, if El-Sayed is getting outspent in terms of Super PAC money 50 to one, 50 to one? That's an insane amount of money. So, if he loses, what does it tell you? It tells you that they had to spend huge amounts of money to defeat him. But I hope very much that he will win.
But all of this gets down to the fact that we have a corrupt campaign finance system. Billionaires are trying to buy elections. We need not only to overturn Citizens United. We need to get Super PACs out of the political process. Most important political issue, to my mind.
COLLINS: John Fetterman, your colleague in the Senate that you caucus with, said that he believes Abdul El-Sayed's candidacy and your involvement in these primaries is actually hurting the Democratic Party.
This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): It means that that puts that seat really, really in play, absolutely. And that, if he wins, that means there'd be celebration over the GOP, a 100 percent.
RAJU: Is Bernie making it harder for Democrats to recapture the majority?
FETTERMAN: Well, yes. I mean, like, what's he out on? Well, what's in it for him, you know? If it's not anything more at this point, ego, you know, maybe sit a few out, Bernie, you know, it's -- you're not helping.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Well, the last poll that I saw in Pennsylvania, not a whole lot of Democrats think that he is representing them. And as you know, there's some question whether or not he flips and becomes a Republican. So, I would not put too much credibility in what somebody like Fetterman says.
COLLINS: He said you should sit this out.
SANDERS: Is that what he said?
COLLINS: Yes.
SANDERS: So, you think I should take his advice? I probably won't. So, John, not going to take your advice. We're going to work as hard as we can, not only to elect El-Sayed, but Peggy Flanagan in Minnesota, and strong congressional candidates all over this country who have the guts to start taking on big money, and represent workers.
COLLINS: You talked about voters rejecting the status quo. You mentioned the pattern that we've seen with a lot of Democratic Socialist candidates winning on this progressive message. But if Abdul El-Sayed wins, on Tuesday, but is defeated by the more moderate candidate in the race in the general, which would be Mike Rogers. I mean, are you not worried about that?
[21:15:00]
SANDERS: And what happens if Haley Stevens wins and is defeated by Mike Rogers? I mean, look, that's the way it is. Rogers, I think, is a fairly strong candidate.
If the question is, which is the -- Who is the stronger candidate against Rogers? I think it is El-Sayed, and I'll tell you why. I think there is an energy in his campaign, right now, a lot of grassroots activism. He has many, many thousands of people out, knocking on doors. And, in my view, that's the way you win elections.
COLLINS: In terms of looking at that, should Haley Stevens win, would you campaign for her because you want Democrats to--
SANDERS: I don't know that she'd want me. I'd support her. I want Democrats to control the Senate, and I think both Haley and Abdul have made it clear that if the other candidate wins, they will be supportive. So will I.
COLLINS: In terms of what this is looking like, ahead of November. The President has been pushing his party. He wants John Thune to get rid of the August recess, where a lot of your colleagues are going to go home, campaign, work. He wants them to pass this elections overhaul bill, and is pushing hard for them to do so, even as of yesterday.
John Thune is saying, his math is different than his math because he says the votes aren't there among Republicans.
What does it say to you in terms of how the President is viewing the midterms?
SANDERS: Look, you have a president, again, who, in my view, does not believe in democracy or the rule of law, he's an authoritarian. He will probably try to do every possible thing he can do to make it harder for people to vote. If you're disabled, if you're a person of color, so forth and so on. And we have to be prepared for that.
But you're looking at a president--
COLLINS: Are Democrats prepared for that, in your view?
SANDERS: Well, they're working on it. I mean, again, it's unprecedented. We've never had a situation where a President of the United States may want to sabotage an election. So, it's not easy to deal with, but we are.
But on the other hand, I think what you have is a president who is in trouble. No great -- no great observation, his poll numbers are in very serious shape. This is a guy who gives a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the 1 percent, throws 15 million people off health care. We're seeing a massive heat wave all over the world. He says climate change is a hoax. And he's putting up tariffs willy-nilly, estranging us from all of our allies, all over the world. Getting us involved in this terrible war, and around 18 American service people dead, thousands around in Middle East are dead. He's not popular, so he's going to have to figure out anything he can do to try to get votes.
But at the end of the day, I think the American people are sick and tired of Trumpism, his lies, his authoritarianism. They are tired of the Democratic establishment. They want real change and a government that will deliver for them, not just people with money.
COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for joining us tonight.
SANDERS: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Hopefully, you'll come back after Tuesday, when we see what the results are.
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: Thank you.
Up next. Speaking of President Trump and what it looks like about the breaking news that we started this hour with. He might pay a price for his decision not to endorse one of those key Republican senators, as Todd Blanche's nomination is now hanging by a thread tonight.
This also comes as, you heard there the Senator mention the Iran war, the U.S. is launching new strikes against Iran right now. We'll tell you what we know about what's happening with the war, right after this.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We are covering -- breaking news here tonight. Because, a few moments ago, the Republican-run Senate Judiciary Committee postponed its vote that was supposed to happen tomorrow to advance the acting Attorney General Todd Blanche's nomination for the permanent job.
My political and legal sources are here with me.
And Charlie Dent, obviously, you are the former Republican congressman with us. When you look at this and the role that John Cornyn is playing in all this, the Republican senator who has made this demand, of Todd Blanche. Says it hasn't been met yet, even though the DOJ says they've been working with them. What stands out to you here?
CHARLIE DENT, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE (R-PA): Well, it strikes me, of course, that John Cornyn is making a very reasonable request. He wants in writing what apparently has been agreed to orally on the Anti-Weaponization Fund and also on the IRS audits of the President. He wants it in writing. It's a reasonable request.
And of course, the administration said -- to the President, Don't pick the fight with John Cornyn. He's picked a fight with Thom Tillis, Bill Cassidy. And it should come as no surprise to anyone that these senators are pushing back. They don't feel a particular loyalty to respect the President's wish in this case. They're free agents right now, and I think the administration is finding this out the hard way.
But again, what John Cornyn is doing is quite reasonable. Nobody wants this Anti-Weaponization Fund, and they want this tax audit issue to go away as well. And until the administration accedes to their request, Todd Blanche will not be confirmed.
COLLINS: Elie, what do you think?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY, FORMER STATE & FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Kaitlan, this postponement itself is a stinging rebuke of Todd Blanche, coming from senators of his own party.
Let's remember: two weeks ago, Todd Blanche goes in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He raises his hand and takes the oath. He testifies on national TV. To their face, over and over again, he says, unequivocally, The slush fund is dead. He said that ad nauseam.
And now, what Cornyn and Tillis are saying is essentially, Yes, we still don't trust you. What you said under oath directly to us? That's not good enough, and therefore we need it in writing.
Now, I don't know if Blanche is going to get this done to their satisfaction. They're clearly buying him some more time now. But however this plays out, this is a genuine embarrassment for Todd Blanche. It says a lot about his credibility when senators of his own party don't even trust his under-oath testimony.
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COLLINS: Yes, I think -- Mayor de Blasio, when you look at this. When the White House came up with this fund, and there was pushback initially. I mean, I was talking to White House officials, asking if they were going to, to scrap it at the time.
And they said, No, of course not. You know, the President is at the height of his power with his party. He had just primaried all of these Republicans.
And now, obviously it's still creating headaches for them in almost August here, in terms of actually getting Todd Blanche's confirmation across the line, which the White House had thought was going to be pretty easy.
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Look, Kaitlan, I mean, obviously this is now creating an image of an administration that's not in control anymore, and that's a huge problem for the President right there.
But on top of it, you're talking about the fact that he challenged so many of his fellow Republicans so overtly, and now it's coming back to bite him. And you're seeing this not only on this issue with Blanche; you're seeing it on the War Powers Resolution and in many other fronts. He's losing control of his congressional party. He may still have a lot of loyalty in the rank and file, but he's losing control of his congressional party.
And to make matters worse, the American people actually do not want to see the President working on his own personal priorities, like the Anti-Weaponization -- quote-unquote, Anti-Weaponization Fund, or like protecting himself and his family from a tax audit. The American people want to know he's doing something about the cost of living, and he's clearly not.
So, every time there's a controversy over Trump's personal priorities and interests, it kind of doubles down the point to the American people that he's not on the same page with them.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, Charlie Dent, the President seemed kind of unaware today of the drama that was happening on the Hill, that there was this back and forth where, John Cornyn and Todd Blanche was supposed to speak this morning. They canceled it half an hour before Cornyn's office did. By this afternoon, it seemed to be that there was still a big issue at play.
Do you think the President really didn't know what was going on with the attorney general's nomination?
DENT: Well, I suspect he must have been briefed by somebody on his team. You know, he seems -- the President obviously is very distracted with other priorities, including the war and his other obsessions, whether it be the ballroom, or the reflecting pool, or any number of other things that he seems to focus on.
I bet he knew, and he also is fully aware that his own actions against Cornyn, and against Tillis, and against Cassidy, are coming back, as the Mayor said, to bite him. I mean, you can only pick so many fights with so many people before things start to unravel.
And I think that's what you're seeing here with this Judiciary Committee proceeding. They're not going to move forward. These guys have nothing to lose. That's what this is about right now. And again, the requests are reasonable, and they simply don't trust the administration to do what they said they were going to do. They want it in writing. Until they get it, they're going to hold fast.
COLLINS: Elie, are you surprised that this became more of the issue for Todd Blanche's confirmation than the Epstein investigation?
HONIG: Yes. First of all, the Epstein investigation was sort of Todd Blanche's original sin. I mean, he's been mishandling that for a year now. It goes back to last summer. In fact, we've heard from victims, who were on air earlier today who said, when they finally had their meeting with Todd Blanche, which he was essentially forced into by Senator Tillis, he still was dismissive of them.
So, I don't know how this slush fund has gotten out ahead of -- that slush fund is a horrible idea. Don't get me wrong. But on top of that, it seems that Todd Blanche's ongoing weaponization, political weaponization of DOJ, has taken a far backseat. We learned various things today about how ridiculous, for example, the prosecution of Jim Comey is.
And so, there's a lot Todd Blanche needs to answer for, and it's up to the Senate to prioritize that as they will. But yes, it's a bit surprising to me that the slush fund has sort of overshadowed all of those other faults.
COLLINS: And we will see if it ultimately derails the nomination.
Elie Honig, thank you for joining us.
Bill and Charlie will be back with me in just a moment.
Because we are covering other breaking news here tonight, as the U.S. is right now launching new strikes against Iran after the President's expletive-filled threat that he made clear this morning.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We have breaking news tonight, as U.S. forces are launching new strikes against Iran this evening. As CENTCOM confirms that the United States launched these strikes starting at 08:00 p.m. Eastern tonight, a little bit later than typical, and says that these strikes are in response to what officials called Iran's surprise attack, that we told you about here 24 hours ago, on U.S. forces in the Middle East that they said were intercepted.
The President previewed these strikes earlier today in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to be hitting them very hard because it's our turn to hit them. They know it's coming. They're asking us not to do it. But you know, they tried shooting at last night. So, we had five rockets shot, going 8,500 miles an hour, and all five rockets were knocked down to the ground. But they nevertheless took a shot, so it's our turn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Those comments came after the President, earlier on Fox, had an expletive-filled threat against Iran that you can read here in full, as you now know that they are striking tonight.
[21:35:00]
Joining me now is Karim Sadjadpour, who is an expert on Iran and a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
First off, what do you make of what we're hearing from CENTCOM so far about these strikes tonight?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, IRAN EXPERT, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I don't see it having any impact on the way Iran has been fighting this war, which is that this is a regime in which revolutionaries are now in pretty firm control of the government. And they've been dug in. They're not going to let go of the Strait of Hormuz.
They were taught the wrong lesson from this war, which is that you gain concessions from America not by compromising, but by attacking your neighbors. And it seems like they're playing a long game. And President Trump is kind of reacting, playing this move by move, but it hasn't impacted at all Iran's calculations.
COLLINS: What does it do to Iran's calculations when the President says, on Fox News, and in the Oval Office, I'm going to strike Iran tonight. They know it's coming.
SADJADPOUR: Up until now, it has had no impact on the way Iran has conducted this war. Unfortunately, I think that because President Trump, on a daily basis, says contradictory things. On one day, he threatens to destroy Iran's civilization. On another day, he'll say, We're on the verge of an imminent deal. And I fear that the United States has lost deterrence. Iran is not taking seriously President Trump's words or its threats.
COLLINS: Does it make any difference when you -- the President says, We're going to strike?
Normally, the strikes always happen around 05:00 p.m. Eastern. They happened around 08:00 p.m. Eastern tonight. CENTCOM says they're going after this. Do you read anything into that in terms of the military strategy of what they're going after in Iran?
SADJADPOUR: Well, it's often -- it's almost always in the middle of the night, and the -- I think the big picture here is that there isn't, in my view, a knockout punch. I think that's what President Trump is seeking, kind of a knockout punch to end this war once and for all. And over five months, that hasn't been the case.
It's a regime which it's been diminished significantly militarily, but psychologically, it's been boosted, and it's a regime which is after revenge. And so, I think President Trump really needs to rethink the strategy here.
COLLINS: Well, and I wonder what it says to you, in terms of, we are looking at this bigger picture.
The Israeli Prime Minister, as of a few hours -- is still here in Washington. He's been talking to the President, showing him what they say is new intelligence.
The President says, talks are happening. Iran says, they're not happening, despite what the President says.
I mean, in terms of just looking at this bigger picture, how are you doing that tonight?
SADJADPOUR: So, over the last 47 years, this Iranian regime has probably compromise -- agreed to a significant compromise on only two occasions. In 1988, when it ended the Iran-Iraq War. And then, in 2015, the Obama nuclear deal. And it really only compromises when it feels its existence is at stake and it's offered kind of a face- saving, limited diplomatic exit.
The problem right now is that doesn't feel its existence is at stake. That requires sustained pressure over many months. We haven't had that. And at the same time, the diplomacy hasn't led them to a situation in which they believe that they can get an exit, in which they don't have to actually change their revolutionary identity, which they don't want to give up.
COLLINS: Yes.
Karim Sadjadpour, we'll obviously see the impact of these strikes. Thank you for joining us as always with your expertise. It's great to have it.
SADJADPOUR: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also, here in Washington today, you saw another contentious hearing on Capitol Hill. Yes, there was a lot of drama with Todd Blanche. Also with Dr. Anthony Fauci, who spent a Senate hearing where he pleaded the Fifth repeatedly. Why he says he did so, and why the Committee Chairman now says he might hold him in contempt.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): What day of the week is it today?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, FORMER DIR., NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES, FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.
HAWLEY: What color tie you're wearing?
FAUCI: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.
On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to.
Respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights.
Fifth Amendment.
The Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Over the course of nearly three hours today on Capitol Hill, Dr. Anthony Fauci invoked his constitutional right against self- incrimination more than a 100 times. The former public health official says that he repeatedly took the Fifth because Senator Rand Paul, who is the top Republican on the Homeland Security Committee, wants him in jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: The only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something, anything that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up, in his words, quote, Behind bars, unquote.
I will invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Senator Rand Paul is now vowing to force a vote next week to hold Dr. Fauci in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify.
[21:45:00]
That back and forth, though, between Fauci and Rand Paul was not the only contentious part that happened today. As other Republican lawmakers, who were also on the committee, grilled the Infectious Disease Doctor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAWLEY: You don't want to answer questions. It's because you did all kinds of terrible things. It's because during the pandemic you got rich, didn't you?
SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): Your legacy will not be as a man who has saved America from COVID, but as a man who destroyed the public trust in America's public health institutions in exchange for five minutes of fame.
SEN. BERNIE MORENO (R-OH): It was about six years ago today that I decided I'm going to give up my businesses, sell them all, run for office, run for the United States Senate. Here I am, sitting in front of you, six years later, saying, Who the (bleep) do you think you were for doing that? It is a total disgrace what you did to this country.
And if my Democrat colleagues are standing there defending you, I hope the voters of the United States of America, watch the clips of every one of you doting on a guy who was more interested in being a celebrity than saving American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: There was also an extraordinary confrontation, where Dr. Fauci's attorney was actually removed from the hearing room, as Senator Rand Paul was pushing back against him speaking, when not being called on and recognized, and also sitting at the table next to Fauci, as he was there to testify.
My political sources are back here with me tonight. And Charlie Dent, as you watched that, as a former lawmaker, what did you make of what you saw today?
DENT: Well, it's never a good look to take the Fifth Amendment.
But let me say this about Dr. Fauci: I had the opportunity to work with him on the Zika virus outbreak, on Ebola. We were all very much aware of his record during the AIDS outbreak back in the 80s and his major contributions to dealing with that crisis. I think this man deserves a lot more respect than he was shown today. He's 85-years- old.
The Chairman has made comments to the effect he wants to see him behind bars. And I get why he took the Fifth Amendment. Because does he really want to have this DOJ coming after him, using his words against him, trying to find some contradiction? And perhaps the Chairman of the committee then referring this whole matter over to DOJ, which many are worried about its weaponization.
So, I get why Fauci did what he did. Again, it's not a great look, but I think senators should speak to this man with a lot more respect than he was shown today. He's an honorable man. He was a great public servant.
And I think this is a distraction. Fauci has asked that this -- that there be an investigation as to how the outbreak occurred, the COVID outbreak, whether it was the wet market, naturally occurring, or the Wuhan lab. I mean, I'm not sure what they want from this man other than to put his head on a pike.
COLLINS: I mean, Mayor de Blasio, as you were watching this.
We heard from President Trump after the hearing for his thoughts, and this is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I watched the whole thing today, but more importantly, I was a part of the whole Fauci -- I inherited Fauci. He was here from the 1980s, so I had him for a period of time. And I disagreed with him on a lot. I would have had to close down the whole country if I listened to him.
COVID was a disaster, but Fauci did not help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I will say, he did give Dr. Fauci a presidential commendation as he was leaving office in the first term.
But what did you make of how the President responded and what you saw?
DE BLASIO: Well, first of all, the President is always contradictory on COVID. He did something actually good in expediting the vaccine, and then sort of ran away from his own contribution. And he was never coherent in advising the American people. So, the President's history on COVID is deeply troubled.
Fauci was one of the people helped this country get through it. I worked with him very closely when I was Mayor of New York City because New York City was originally the epicenter in this country. And Fauci was, thank God, someone who actually knew something and was consistent in the advice he gave, and was someone you could have a real conversation with, unlike so many other folks in the administration.
But I think the bottom line here is Trump once again, and the Republicans in the Senate, surprisingly, they can't get out of their own way, Kaitlan. They should not be talking about something that happened five years ago, which the American people want to put behind them. They should be talking about the crisis of today, that the American people feel overwhelmed by their economic reality.
And every time the Republicans relitigate the past, whether it's the 2020 election or whether it's COVID, it really sends a message that they're totally out of touch with the day-to-day life of average Americans. I just don't understand why they wanted to have this hearing, honestly.
COLLINS: Well, actually, you know, that makes me think of the new CNN poll that came out today, and it shows what Americans are feeling right now.
[21:50:00]
And when it comes to the President's overall approval rating, it stands at 34 percent. That's the career low of what he saw at the end of his last term, after January 6th had happened, after people had watched his supporters ransack the Capitol. When it comes to among Republicans, it has also notably fallen 10 points since the beginning of his second term.
When you look at that, if you were a Republican running for Congress right now, election or re-election, what stands out to you in these numbers?
DE BLASIO: Look, Kaitlan, to me, this is a death knell for the Republicans in terms of the midterms. You cannot have a president be historically unpopular and now not trusted by the American people on the core issues. They used to actually kind of like him on the economy and immigration. You saw in that poll, shockingly low numbers on the economy, on the price of gasoline, on inflation. They do not have faith in him on education -- excuse me -- on immigration and on ICE anymore.
What's striking to me in the poll is, right now, the American people are absolutely convinced this country is going in the wrong direction. The Republican Party has all three -- they have two Houses and the President. They cannot claim it isn't their responsibility.
So, this poll says to me, as we're about to hit August 1st, it is too late for them to come up with a new message or a new approach, and the Democrats are in a position to truly dominate in the midterms. COLLINS: Charlie, how do you see these new numbers, including part of it that says, over two-thirds of Americans believe the President's decisions in Iran have hurt the United States?
DENT: Well, it's clear to me the President just can't stay on a message.
You know, again, as the Mayor pointed out, and others, you know, the American people are not focused on the 2020 election. They're not focused on COVID. They're not focused on the ballroom. They're not focused on all these other vanity projects. But they are worried about the price of everything. They're drawing a straight line from the Iran war to higher gasoline prices because of the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. That's what they're dealing with.
And if you're a Republican running in a swing state or in a swing district, you need -- at this point, they need to speak to beyond their base. And so, by not focusing on the things people care about, Republicans are hurting themselves, or the President is hurting Republican candidates, I should say. Because, they're not doing anything to appeal to that center right to center left of the electorate, that soft voter, who's not part of -- you know, strongly tied to one base or the other. That's where Republicans need to pick up support right now.
And so, that's why this talk about Fauci and the 2020 election is doing -- is so harmful. In fact, at times, I think the President is intentionally saying and doing things that are undermining his own party's chances of success in the midterm. I mean, they're running in a really tough environment, and there's no -- there's no sugarcoating this. Unless they get a better message, they're going to be in trouble.
COLLINS: You think he's purposely trying to hurt Republicans?
DENT: Well, he said things like he's not concerned about the economic plight of many Americans. He's made all kinds of -- he said he didn't care about the midterms. I mean, he said these things, I mean. And some of these things are -- some of these comments are going to be used in ads against Republican candidates. All the things that he has said and done, it's hurting them.
If you talk to any Republican running for office in a swing district, they wish the President would get on message and talk about the things that the American people are concerned about: the cost of electricity, gasoline. We know what those things are: housing, healthcare. That's the focus. That's where it should be. Because if they don't get on to the right message, they're going to have a hell of a time. Now, that's the bad news.
The good news is, the Democrats don't have that many seats to play in, in the House. So, the losses will probably be less than many would expect.
But they're likely to lose the House at this rate. DE BLASIO: Yes, and I just want to add, the Iran war is the issue, especially the way it connects to gasoline prices. And now we see, that situation continues to run out of control, and the President doesn't have a plan or a vision. Your poll shows, the American people think he doesn't have a way out.
COLLINS: We will see.
Bill de Blasio. Charlie Dent. Great to have both of your voices here tonight. So, thank you for joining us.
DE BLASIO: Thank you.
DENT: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. It is time for Source Code. We give you a number at the center of a story that's in the news. Can you figure out what the story is? Tonight's Source Code is 86. We'll be right back with the answer.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: And our Source Code tonight is 86, as in 86 47. Yes, those were the numbers that were written in those seashells that are now at the center of that criminal case against James Comey.
But here's what's new: these court filings that show how federal investigators built their case against the former Director of the FBI, and also apparently kept President Trump updated on its developments in the middle of it.
Now, the new filings detail how Secret Service emails and records suggested that officials tracked Comey's phone, without a warrant, and also were physically surveilling him. The filings show that investigators tried to prove Comey threatened Trump's life by searching ChatGPT, and interviewing the notorious former mob boss -- underboss, Sammy the Bull Gravano.
Now, remember, based on what the President told me in the Oval Office, earlier this year, he believes that's who would know best what that term meant.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, if anybody knows anything about crime, they know 86 -- you know what 86 -- it's a mob term for kill him. You know? You ever see the movies? 86 him, the mobster says to one of his wonderful associates, 86 him. That means, Kill him.
COLLINS: But do you really think your life was in danger? Because that's the argument.
TRUMP: Probably, I don't know. You know, based on -- based on what I'm seeing out there, yes, it's the--
COLLINS: I mean, it's seashells.
TRUMP: People like Comey have created tremendous danger, I think, for politicians and others. He -- you know, Comey is a dirty cop. He's a very dirty cop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: On that note, thanks so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
