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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Threatens To Pull Blanche Nomination Amid GOP Revolt; New Poll: More Americans See Dems Than GOP As Party Of Change; Mandela Barnes Drops Out Of Wisconsin Governor's Race As Democratic Socialist Francesca Hong Surges In Polls. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 30, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --just a terrifying moment off the coast of Fiji. A grey reef shark, caught on camera, attacking a diver who was spearfishing. The victim, Henry Gibbs, a social media influencer says the shark tore into his leg.
To give you a better look, we've slowed down his video. You see it here.
Gibbs says two other divers with him quickly got him out of the water and to a hospital. He says he is on the mend after four surgeries and feels incredibly lucky to still have his leg.
Well, the news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. The President is facing a Republican revolt of his own making. So, who's going to blink first?
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air tonight, there is a true D.C. cliffhanger from the White House to the Capitol. What began as a confirmation fight has quickly morphed into a test of whether or not President Trump can still demand the Republicans do what he wants, without having to address their concerns or make concessions to them.
Tonight, that's exactly what two senators are asking for, and say they have yet to receive from the White House, in order to confirm Trump's attorney general nominee Todd Blanche.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Does it tell you that they want to move forward with both the weaponization fund and give Trump some tax immunity? Does that tell you that?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): That's what it sounds like.
I mean, we were having a perfectly good conversation with Todd Blanche. I think he's a smart guy, good lawyer, and we just wanted to confirm what he already swore to.
And now the President's pulling him back thinking that well he can outwait Tillis and me. But as I pointed out, there are more than just two people who have reservations about the weaponization fund and about the scope of the settlement agreement. So, I think, and you know, after the midterms, who knows who's going to be the next United States senator from North Carolina or Texas.
RAJU: Your reaction to the President saying he may withdraw Blanche and put him back after you're gone?
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): My reaction is the President's getting bad advice. He should listen to Blanche and others who think if it's dead, it should be rendered completely dead.
Whoever that person is, is giving the President bad advice. The only reason why we wouldn't move forward with this language is because that same adviser wants to bring it back to life at some point.
RAJU: I mean, isn't it the President's? Doesn't the buck stop with him? You keep saying, The adviser's. But it's the President.
TILLIS: You can draw that conclusion, Manu, and I can draw one that's got my eyes on the target.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Sources say that Senators John Cornyn, and Thom Tillis who you just saw there getting into the elevator, both met privately with the acting Attorney General today. It's been hours now since that meeting ended, and still there is no word on whether or not they will support him as the next attorney general.
As a reminder, Senator Cornyn has said these are his demands in order to get his yes-vote: kill the so-called Anti-Weaponization Fund, which Blanche already testified is a moot point. He says it's dead. And also to put limits on a deal that gives the President and his family protections from IRS audits and investigations. They want both of those in writing.
But things are so dicey tonight, and the President seems so unwilling to have his nominee do so, that he went from insisting in the Oval Office yesterday that Blanche's nomination was going smoothly, to today musing about pulling his nomination altogether until those two senators that you just heard from are out of Congress in January.
The President posted today, quote, "I have no objection to temporarily withdrawing Todd's name, if they do not do the right thing, and putting him back after Cornyn and Tillis are out of office."
But that's also a risky proposition given this. New polling today, from Fox News, shows that Democrats are actually leading in the Senate contest to replace those two senators. That means the Senate may be no friendlier to the President and his nominee after the New Year, or as one of the more loquacious Republican senators put it today, Duh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think it's risky to wait for January to try and get Blanche through as a permanent A.G.?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Do I think what?
REPORTER: Do you think it's risky to wait until January for the 120th Congress?
KENNEDY: Well, duh. Yes, yes. This place could be very different.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight are two deeply-sourced White House insiders.
Shelby Talcott is the White House correspondent for Semafor.
And Jeff Mason is the White House correspondent for Bloomberg.
Jeff, I think the big question today, you know, with the President putting that threat out there, is whether or not this is a risk that the White House is willing to take.
[21:05:00]
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG: Absolutely. I spoke to a White House official, this afternoon, who said that the President is confident that the Republicans are still going to have control of the Senate in January. So, he's apparently rolling the dice on that. And he still supports Todd Blanche. Just looking at the calculation of whether or not it can get through committee. So, the way that this person described it is, it may be -- the process is on ice, but Todd Blanche is not on ice.
And yet, there's really an easier solution to all of this, which is just to agree to those demands.
COLLINS: Shelby, what are you hearing about why they aren't? I mean, you heard Senator Tillis implying that it's not the President holding it up, but someone in his orbit.
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: I think everybody I've talked to says that this is the President holding it up. I do think that there are aides who are probably on the President's side. But ultimately, as any White House official will say, the President ultimately makes every decision in this White House, right? Everything is coming from him.
I think that in the conversations I've had, it's really interesting because White House officials and administration officials have told me, over the past few days, that they feel like they're really close to a deal. And yet, as we see, no deal has emerged.
And I think the real sticking point is not necessarily that first aspect of Cornyn's demand, but the second one on the IRS. That's what I am hearing is the real sticking point here.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, that's the question: Is the President willing to risk his attorney general nominee in order to keep those protections that not only apply to his family but to the President himself?
MASON: And the answer right now seems to be yes, I mean. Because it is a gamble. I mean, the Fox News polling that you just showed is fascinating. If the Democrats were to take over control of the Senate and the House, the ramifications for Trump -- for President Trump, would be huge, certainly on this issue, but also on a bunch of others.
And yet, he could avoid that and get his man in -- confirmed, if he's willing to put aside that IRS provision.
COLLINS: Well, it was remarkable yesterday in the Oval, the President was saying, I think everything's fine with Todd Blanche's nomination.
MASON: Right.
COLLINS: He didn't seem to, or at least from what he was saying publicly, understand what was unfolding on Capitol Hill yesterday, until now it's this moment where Todd Blanche is going and meeting, not even on the Hill, he's meeting off-site, with Cornyn and Tillis to try to get to the same page here.
TALCOTT: Yes, I was in that Oval Office yesterday, and I thought that was really interesting. He just kind of dismissed all of it as if it was no big deal.
And I even thought his Truth Social post from today was a little bit nonchalant for the President, when you compare it to other things that he has posted, right? He was essentially saying, It doesn't even matter if Todd Blanche gets confirmed right now. I'll just -- I'll just have him as acting, and then I'll put him in once Cornyn and Tillis are out. Which is of course, as you said, another gamble.
But there's been also talk in Trump's orbit about the possibility of putting somebody else in as acting to try to pressure lawmakers into doing this, somebody who would be worse than Todd Blanche, right? Somebody very controversial. I'm told that there's no plans to do that. That the plan is that the President will just keep Todd Blanche as acting director (ph) for as long as possible if he can't get through.
MASON: And it's interesting that the senators, when they're talking about their objections, they don't object to Todd Blanche.
TALCOTT: No.
MASON: It sounds like the acting Attorney General and his Department of Justice are actually trying to move in the direction of that deal. So, it's not him that they object to, but it's these things that President Trump doesn't want to let go of.
COLLINS: Yes, they're using Blanche as a vessel to get their demands, which is a pretty unusual position for the President to be in, being squeezed by his own party by a couple of senators who have nothing to lose.
But we talk about John Cornyn. We talk about Thom Tillis.
There's also Bill Cassidy today who said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Todd Blanche cannot give commitments that Cornyn and Tillis want. And by the way, I am very concerned about the weaponization of the Justice Department.
REPORTER: If the vote happened today, would you support him?
CASSIDY: I'm not going to answer that because I'm still in the information-gathering stage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, you can tell in these senators' answers that they are just -- I mean, they have nothing to lose, truly.
MASON: They have nothing to lose, and I think it was Senator Cornyn who said today as well, This is not just a Tillis-Cornyn problem. There -- it's more than just the two of us who have concerns about this broader issue.
And that's Exhibit A of that.
COLLINS: I mean, I do think it's an open question of where this goes from here. Because the President actually doesn't seem to care when someone is in an acting position. I mean, he had an acting chief of staff, he had acting budget directors. We just had an acting Director of National Intelligence until Jay Clayton was confirmed. I mean, this is a pretty familiar territory for him.
TALCOTT: He's totally fine with it. He's done it before. He'll probably do it again.
But I do think that the broader -- the broader tell here is the fact that the President is in his second year. Right? He's got two more years left. And I think a lot of Republican lawmakers are starting to realize that there is a Republican Party after Trump.
[21:10:00]
And so, you're seeing him sort of lose a little bit. He still has a very strong hold over the Republican Party and over most lawmakers in Congress. But you're seeing, when he has such a narrow majority, how even just two or three lawmakers who say, You know what? What's going to happen in two years. Right? You're not going to be present anymore. We need to think of the future. That's making a huge difference.
COLLINS: Does the White House seem to realize that, in your view, Jeff? From what you hear from White House officials? MASON: I mean, what I see and hear is that this is a president, again, who thinks he can get everything he wants. So, he's not someone who backs away, and he's not going to back away on this.
COLLINS: We shall see.
Jeff Mason. Shelby Talcott. Great to have both of you and your reporting here tonight.
Also joining us tonight is the Democratic Senator of Maryland, Chris Van Hollen.
And thank you, sir, for being here.
Based on what you're seeing tonight from your colleagues, do you think Todd Blanche is going to be the next attorney general?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Kaitlan, only time will tell, and whether or not Cornyn and Tillis will stick to their guns on this.
What appears to be happening, though, is the President clearly has prioritized protecting his $1.8 billion slush fund, right, that he wanted to use essentially to pay off people who attacked the Capitol on January 6 and others, and protect his sweetheart tax deal. And he's prepared to allow Blanche nomination to sort of hang in limbo for a while because the President doesn't want to give up those things.
COLLINS: So, you think he's basically willing to lose his permanent attorney general status for his nominee, over the IRS audit immunity protection in the Anti-Weaponization Fund?
VAN HOLLEN: I do. I think what he thinks is ultimately these senators are going to blink and accept some kind of language or some kind of commitment that actually is not ultimately binding, that doesn't ultimately codify the end, put a stake through the heart of the slush fund, and doesn't ultimately undo the tax sweetheart deal the President got. I think that's what Trump's counting on, and time will tell. But I do think he may be willing to wait until next January and roll the dice.
Because those are the things, Kaitlan, that are most important to the President. He wants the slush fund, ultimately, and he definitely wants the get-out-of-jail-free tax sweetheart deal that was cut for himself and members of his family. That is his top priority over having a confirmed attorney general.
COLLINS: If they do come to an agreement, and John Cornyn says, OK, they've met my conditions. Do you want to see what that agreement is, what the text of that looks like? Do you think that should be made public?
VAN HOLLEN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think it has to be made public. I think it needs to be transparent.
And I'm not sure how Senator Cornyn or Senator Tillis could actually, with a straight face, say they're voting in favor of Blanche, without disclosing the details of whatever agreement they reach. Because, again, the big question is whether this is going to be a serious binding agreement, or simply some cover that allows the President to proceed.
COLLINS: If they don't get to an agreement and Trump pulls Blanche's nomination, do you think it'll be a more favorable environment for him in January, when John Cornyn and Thom Tillis are no longer in the Senate?
VAN HOLLEN: I don't.
COLLINS: Or do you think it's a risk?
VAN HOLLEN: Oh, I think it's a big risk. I mean, at the very least, I think the margin of the Republican majority would be narrower, and there's a very decent and growing chance the Democrats will actually be in the majority in the United States Senate. And so, not only would the President not be able to get his acting Attorney General through as attorney general, he wouldn't be able to get a lot of these completely unqualified nominees through at that time.
COLLINS: Well, speaking of Democrats. Obviously, there are questions about what it could look like, should they succeed, should your party do well in the midterm elections.
Right now, there's a real question about what the future of your party looks like. And we have a new poll at CNN today that found that among Democrats, 60 percent have a favorable opinion of New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani, 55 percent for Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. In comparison, 34 percent have a favorable view of Hakeem Jeffries, and 29 percent say so about Chuck Schumer.
What do those numbers tell you about what Democratic voters want your party to look like?
VAN HOLLEN: So, Kaitlan, I've told my colleagues many times that we should not take a lot of comfort in the fact that Donald Trump's numbers are so low. That will obviously be helpful in a midterm election when the vote is really a referendum on the party in power.
[21:15:00]
But the Democratic Party polling numbers are even lower, and that's because there's a great deal of churning and unrest among Democrats throughout the country. Activists and grassroots and, really, everybody, who don't think, number one, Democrats have done enough from the start to fight Donald Trump. But even more, Kaitlan, they want Democrats who are going to tell them what they're for and not only what they're against. They don't want Democrats who simply want to stick with the status quo or the pre-Trump status quo, and I agree with -- I agree with that sentiment.
COLLINS: So, does the future of your party look more like AOC and Zohran Mamdani?
VAN HOLLEN: No, what I think the future of the party looks like is a great diversity of views coming together. But the unifying fact here is that it's no longer so much left and right. It's much more the folks at the very top, the top 1 percent who are using their economic power to rig the rules against working people, and then using their economic power and to translate into that political power through all the Super PAC money spending.
I mean, we're seeing hundreds of millions of dollars of Super PACs coming into Democratic primaries and other elections, and I think Democrats' voters, Democratic voters, are just fed up, and they don't like the Democratic establishment in Washington, and they want people who are going to shake things up.
COLLINS: Should Democratic voters, should their sentiments be represented, you think, in the leadership of Democrats on the Hill, in the Senate, and in the House?
VAN HOLLEN: Oh, seriously, I am just -- I am focused on the 2026 elections.
But I do think beyond the 2026 elections, Kaitlan, as you go into 2028, it's going to be really important that the Democratic Party show they're going to stand up and fight for working people. And I think you're going to see a huge debate, within the Democratic Party, over exactly how to do that. And so, I think everybody should stay tuned for that debate. And I think that will be a healthy debate for the Democratic Party.
COLLINS: Yes.
VAN HOLLEN: It is simply not enough to tell people we're going to go back to the way things were before Donald Trump was elected. That status quo was broken, and I think Donald Trump was a symptom of people's great unhappiness with the status quo.
COLLINS: Yes, I ask because if fewer than three out of 10 Democratic voters have a favorable view of Chuck Schumer. Do you think that he should lead your party in the Senate?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, he's got a very tough job. And so, my view is we should get through the 2026 election, see what voters say, but also at the same time be prepared for the presidential election. Because it would be really good, of course, to win the Senate and the House. But ultimately, we need to make sure we have a Democrat in the White House.
COLLINS: Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you for taking the time to join us tonight.
VAN HOLLEN: Kaitlan, good to be with you.
COLLINS: Up next. More of our CNN poll. It shows how Americans are feeling about the Iran war. It's not good. But instead of the war coming to an end, right now, it might be getting bigger. More countries are now being pulled in. And my Global Affairs source is going to join me right after this.
And there has been a major shakeup in a critical Democratic primary, as a new CNN poll is showing that most in that party want change.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: As the United States and Iran are trading more military strikes, and with traffic through one critical oil shipping route already close to a standstill, there are concerns another important waterway may now be at risk because of new drone attacks.
Egypt now says an unidentified drone struck two vessels at a port near the Suez Canal. So far, no one has claimed responsibility.
Though today, Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps said that the Strait of Hormuz, that main waterway that has been disrupted by this war, will stay closed as long as U.S. threats continue.
And of course, this comes as Iran's-backed Houthis have also been trying to blockade Saudi shipping in the Red Sea.
Put all that together, all those three key energy transit routes in peril, Americans here at home are feeling it when they go to the pump to fill up, and they're not happy about it. That's reflected in a new CNN poll that shows 72 percent of all Americans disapprove of President Trump's handling of the Iran war so far.
My next source is CNN's Global Affairs Analyst, Brett McGurk.
And obviously, we've been looking at this and talking about these developments. If Egypt is now being pulled into this, what does that say to you tonight?
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, FMR. MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA COORDINATOR, NATL. SECURITY COUNCIL: Well, yes, Iran in the last month, Kaitlan, they had this sweet deal with the MOU, like lifted sanctions on Iran beyond even the Obama-era JCPOA. And they didn't like how it was going, they attacked two ships. That kicked off one round.
Earlier this week, we were back in a pause, trying to get diplomacy going. They launched ballistic missiles at Jordan, targeting U.S. forces. They attack Saudi Arabia through Iraqi militias. And then they launch these drones at Egypt.
And what has happened in response to that -- I've talked to a lot of people throughout the region today on all sides of these issues. And what I heard today was Iran may have really begun to overreach here significantly. The U.S. is in a tough, tough spot, and we can go through it. But Iran is also in a somewhat difficult spot.
So, about four hours ago, Iran's foreign minister Araghchi put out a statement saying, We didn't attack Egypt. This wasn't us.
Which is absurd. That tells you--
COLLINS: Because then who attacked Egypt? [21:25:00]
MCGURK: Of course, it was them, and that tells you they think they might have made a mistake.
Saudi Arabia, for the first time -- I've been doing this for almost 20 years -- Saudi Arabia joined U.S. forces in responding against Iranian-backed groups in Iraq. That's a big step. And then about 40 countries--
COLLINS: And why is that such a big step?
MCGURK: Well because, Saudi Arabia doesn't really want to get involved in that. But the Saudi Arabia, basically, what they're saying to Iran is, Hey, enough. Knock this off. And the Saudis had about 40 countries, in Saudi Arabia today, talking about a coalition in the Red Sea.
So, whereas two months ago, what I used to hear was, Man we really want this to stop, Trump just has to somehow get a deal.
Now, it's like, You know we tried a deal, and Iran is showing they don't want a deal other than solely on Iran's terms, which is completely unacceptable to the regional partners. So, there's some pushback here.
And then what just broke about an hour and a half ago, Kaitlan, is potentially a breakthrough with Hamas in Gaza, in which Hamas is actually agreeing to the terms of UN Security Council resolution, which is Trump's 20-point plan to actually disarm in Gaza. And that is the most complicated issue, whatever side of it anyone is on.
COLLINS: Can we talk about that?
MCGURK: Iran--
COLLINS: Because President Trump posted on Truth, he said -- Truth Social, on his website, that the Board of Peace, as he has dubbed it, has reached a HISTORIC agreement for the COMPLETE DISARMAMENT of Hamas and all other armed groups in Gaza.
We have not heard about Hamas confirming that deal. Obviously, if they do agree to that, that would be massive.
MCGURK: Yes. So, we should have a little--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Why does that affect the Iran war then?
MCGURK: Well because, Iran does not want that to happen, OK? I've been involved in Hamas negotiations for -- during the October 7th crisis, and Iran is the spoiler of any deal because they support these groups, which they call the Axis of Resistance. They do not want Hamas to ever, even in principle, give up its weapons to control Gaza. But if you ever want to have peace between Israelis and Palestinians, which we all hope to see, one precondition is you cannot have Hamas governing and in security control of Gaza, which is also now it's in a resolution through the UN Security Council.
We should be skeptical, but Nickolay Mladenov, who was kind of the head of this, he's the former foreign minister of Bulgaria, a very serious guy. He has now put out a statement, and Hamas spokesmen have been on Al Jazeera, seeming to confirm it.
Again, long way to go, but it's the first time we have seen Hamas actually accepting to that in principle, and it tells you, you know, where Iran is in the region right now. It's trying to show it has cards by missiles and drones. It can keep doing that. But there's some pushback here. So, I think this has a ways to play out.
We're in a tough spot too. So, I don't -- I'm not -- I'm not putting a rosy picture here--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Well, can I ask you about the United States? Because we have sources who tell my colleagues that the weapons stockpiles, which includes these crucial air defense missiles are being severely depleted as their war has gone on and on. I mean, at what point, if you're on the National Security Council or inside the Pentagon does--
MCGURK: Yes.
COLLINS: --are the alarm bells ringing?
MCGURK: Yes. So, I've been in the room where you have these types of debates, Kaitlan, and usually it goes something like this: If you want to focus on the one theater we're in. We probably have enough to deal with that.
However, and what General Caine and the -- Chairman of the Joint Chiefs has to look at is global readiness. And where this gets really complicated is if we actually deplete significantly these munitions more than where they are now, you take on an awful lot of risk elsewhere in the world. And Xi Jinping is watching that, and Taiwan, as you look a couple years ahead. That's how this gets very complicated. So, it's a global picture, Kaitlan.
But tonight, in the Middle East, there's some news that shows maybe Iran thinks it overreached a little bit. They're denying this attack in Egypt, which is absurd. And watch that Gaza deal because it could be a breakthrough. We'll see.
COLLINS: Yes. Brett McGurk, we shall see.
MCGURK: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you so much, as always, for your expertise.
Up next for us here. We are 96 days away from the midterm elections. It's hard to believe the new numbers in our CNN poll are pretty telling. One part they showed Democrats in the lead, but by how much and for how long? My political sources will break down those numbers, next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're less than a 100 days out from the midterm elections. And right now, Democrats are seeing positive signs in our new CNN poll numbers. Right now, 47 percent of Americans say they prefer a Democratic candidate representing them in Congress, over 39 percent of voters who say they'd pick a Republican.
And by a 10-point margin, Americans now see Democrats as what they describe as the party of change, which is a pretty big shift from last spring, when it was actually Republicans who held a seven-point advantage in that space.
My political sources are here tonight, including:
Karen Finney, who is the former senior adviser to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign.
And Scott Jennings, who is the former senior adviser to Senator Mitch McConnell.
And Scott, when you look at these numbers, Democrats winning on a generic ballot by eight points, this close to the midterms, does that worry you?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SR. ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, FORMER SPECIAL ASST. TO PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, HOST, "THE SCOTT JENNINGS RADIO SHOW" ON SRN: Well, sure. I'm a political operative. Everything in every election worries me.
There are other generic ballot polls out there that have it a little bit closer than that, and I actually think a generic ballot lead for the Democrats needs to be fairly substantial for them to have any comfort whatsoever. I've seen polls out there, three, four, five, points. I'm not sure that would be enough for Democrats because the redistricting wars have netted out seats for the Republicans 10 to 12. Republicans have more money.
[21:35:00]
And I think in even some of the battleground districts around the country, the Democrats have probably nominated lunatics who are way outside of sort of the moderate purplish tint of these districts.
And so, it's not a national election. It'll be fought district to district and state to state. And so, even though the generic environment here, yes, would it worry me? A little bit, but I do see some signs in individual districts where the Republicans have reason for optimism. COLLINS: I mean, Karen, as our Democrat here, how do you see it? Do you have enough cushion to make you feel comfortable? Do you want to see different numbers here?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SR. ADVISER TO HILLARY CLINTON 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes.
COLLINS: What are you looking at?
FINNEY: Well, similar to Scott, as somebody who has been doing this a long time, I'm never comfortable until all the votes are counted.
So, look, I think Democrats have to continue to press our case. And, really, this election is going to come down to who do voters trust to deliver, whether it's change or to deliver on the promises they're making.
We are hearing from voters pretty consistently now in focus groups, they feel betrayed by President Trump. They thought he was going to address the economy. They have not seen him do that. We had new economic numbers out today. Again, like between that and the war in Iran, with costs staying high and the uncertainty in the electorate, I think that Democrats are pressing the case, but we can't let our feet off the gas at this point.
COLLINS: Scott, the President keeps saying, Maybe I'll nominate Todd Blanche in January when the environment's more favorable and John Cornyn and Thom Tillis are gone.
If you look at Texas, which the President won by nearly 14 percentage points in 2024, a Fox News poll of Texas voters shows James Talarico, the Democrat in that race, leading Ken Paxton. It's within the margin of error. But if you're looking at that as a Republican, how do you see it?
JENNINGS: It's going to be a close race, and it's going to cost a lot of money. I do think that it's going to be a race of contrasts. It's going to be a very negative campaign.
I do think, at the end of the day, there's a whole bunch of Republicans out there who maybe they didn't vote for Ken Paxton in the primary. Maybe he's not exactly what they wanted. But when presented with the facts on Talarico. He's just way too far outside of the mainstream, and frankly, he's just way too weird for the Texas electorate.
So, doesn't mean it's not going to be an expensive, hard-fought race. It could be close. But I have to believe, Republicans in Texas are not going to be -- want to be represented by somebody who thinks there're six genders and we should have no meat. I just don't see how that's going to fly in Texas.
FINNEY: Here's what I would say in response to that. Talarico, I think, has done a very good job of talking about his values and his faith. And he -- when those attacks came, he went out there early. He continues to talk about them. I think people are getting a feel for who he is, who has -- what his values are, and that just does not stack up to Ken Paxton, who quite literally has more scandals on his rap sheet than I think we -- than we've seen in quite some time in Texas. And we also saw that in that same poll, voters are concerned about whether or not he has the character to be in the Senate. That is not going to change.
I agree with Scott that I think that race is going to get very ugly because Paxton's only path is to continue to attack Talarico. We'll see if that works. But I suspect, in a mood and a change electorate, you're going to see people say, We're tired of that. We want to give this young guy who, with great ideas, who we believe can deliver on that change, let's give him a chance.
COLLINS: Well, and Paxton is struggling to raise money, according to The New York Times. We haven't seen Republican donors really stepping in.
One person who is planning to spend a lot this November, Scott, is apparently Elon Musk. The New York Times reports today that he has authorized his Super PAC to spend at least $100 million to help Republicans in the midterms.
But before I get your thoughts on that, I thought about something that he said not that long ago. That was this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, SPACEX CEO: In terms of political spending, I'm going to do a lot less in the future.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why is that?
MUSK: I think I've done enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it because of blowback?
MUSK: Well, if I see a reason to do political spending in the future, I will do it. I do not currently see a reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of that, Scott, with today's news?
JENNINGS: Well, number one, think about where we were this time last summer. Elon Musk was mad at the President, mad at the party, and was threatening to start another political party. Now, he's going to spend $100 million for the Republicans. Thank God because, he was an integral part of the Republicans winning in 2024, and the party needs him. And he's going to be better off, I think, with Republicans than Democrats for the rest of his life.
[21:40:00]
But it's interesting. When I interviewed Elon for the book that I wrote about President Trump's first 100 days in office, I could tell then, and this was last year, that he was kind of bent out of shape with both parties in Washington. He didn't think there were enough people in Washington who shared his concerns about the national debt, the immigration crisis, the looming, what he thinks is maybe a bankruptcy crisis for the United States of America when you consider $40 trillion in debt. So, I can understand why if you're disappointed with everybody, you wouldn't want to spend much money on politics.
But for right now, given the stakes of this election and given the fact that Western civilization is on the ballot, and I know how much he cares about that, I'm glad to see him come to the Republican Party.
FINNEY: OK. So, look, yes, should Democrats be concerned with Musk? Yes, it's a lot of money, and we know money matters.
At the same time, given that in this electorate, people are so -- one of the things they're most angry about is big money in politics. They believe that corruption, which they see Donald Trump as being corrupt. This is a party that is protecting pedophiles, with the Todd Blanche nomination.
Having a guy spend big dollars on candidates, I think, strengthens the Democrats' argument that this is the party that is bought and sold by trillionaires, not even millionaires or billionaires, a trillionaire, and that that's not somebody you can trust to go to Washington and pay attention to your concerns, which haven't really been getting through anyway.
COLLINS: Scott, can I ask you because you actually were invoked the other night on the show, about your former boss, Senator Mitch McConnell. Have you spoken to him recently on the phone?
JENNINGS: No, I haven't spoken to him recently (inaudible) talked to him early on. And I'm in touch with his office, but I haven't spoken to him recently.
FINNEY: We could -- should we -- do we want to FaceTime him? No? OK.
COLLINS: OK. On that note. Scott Jennings. Karen Finney. Thank you both for being here.
Up next. We have Donie O'Sullivan. He's been out in the country reporting on the rise of progressives and the left for his new documentary. Him -- he's here with his new reporting, and plus Harry Enten. That's a dynamic duo we didn't even know we needed. They'll be up right after this.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, there's been a major shakeup in Wisconsin's race for governor that could pave the way for a Democratic socialist to snag the party's nomination.
Less than two weeks out from the primary, the state's former lieutenant governor, Mandela Barnes, announced his exit from the race, saying, quote, It's very clear who our nominee is going to be. He didn't name her, but Francesca Hong, the Democratic socialist State Representative, has been leading in the recent polls.
This comes as the intra-party battle that we've been talking about between progressives and the establishment Democrats is a fight that is not just happening in Wisconsin, but also all across the country. Maybe nowhere more so than in Michigan right now, where the progressive candidate in that race, Abdul El-Sayed, is locked in a heated contest against the moderate, that's Representative Haley Stevens, for what is a must-win Senate seat for Democrats.
It all comes as a new CNN poll shows that nearly six in 10 Democratic- aligned voters say they want major changes within their party, if not complete reform.
My sources tonight are:
CNN's Senior Correspondent, Donie O'Sullivan, who has a new documentary on "The Left Insurgency" for "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" that is airing this Sunday night.
And also, CNN's Chief Data Analyst, Harry Enten, who is digging into the new poll numbers that came out today.
And Donie, you've been spending six months, traveling the country, looking at the rise of the Democratic Party's progressive movement. What have been your biggest takeaways?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan. I mean, obviously, they have momentum right now, and we saw that, especially since the start of the summer with the New York primaries. There is an overwhelming confidence, I would say.
And also, I mean, one thing that's really stuck out to me is this is really, I think, underlying just how sophisticated the Democrat side or the left, however you want to look at it, that their media infrastructure has grown.
I think we've seen this sort of MAGA media universe of the Steve Bannon's show and things like that explode, over the past few years, and just how effectively Trump used that in 2016, and in 2020, and of course in 2024.
You can really see how these campaigns are, rather than relying on mainstream outlets, which of course they still speak to and they have the debates. So, big a role is the YouTubers and the streamers and the podcasts, "Pod Save America," all those types.
So, it's -- I think, it's both, there's the confidence there, but there's also this infrastructure behind it for them to get their message out.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, Harry, when you look at that, and it comes to what this is actually looking like in this divide. How big is it? I mean, it kind of seems to be something that Democrats here are really wrapping their heads around and trying to say, OK, let's see what we're going to do and what this means for what we should be doing right now.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: I mean, look, the bottom line is this: this is the Democratic Socialist movement. I would never have believed that two years ago. Maybe a year ago, Zohran Mamdani, I started to believe it. But this is a nationwide phenomenon. This is not something just in the coast. It's not just something in the major cities. We saw it in Colorado, right, earlier this month, or certainly last month, and we've seen it as well nationally.
[21:50:00]
You can see in our CNN poll. I mean, just look at the percentage of Democratic voters nationwide who identify as Democratic socialists. It's 41 percent. That is 41 percent of Democrats nationwide, Democratic voters nationwide. This is a nationwide poll.
Now, I should point out, right, what holds for Democrats doesn't necessarily hold for overall. Just 16 percent of voters nationwide identify as Democratic socialists. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens when they hit the general election, especially in swing states, swing states like Wisconsin.
But the bottom line is this: among Democrats, this is the Democratic Socialist movement. We're talking about two in five Democratic voters nationwide identifying with that. And more than that, the ones that don't, many of them are still OK with voting for a Democratic socialist.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, when we see the popularity, obviously, we see the positions and what those look like. And some of them have more extreme positions. They want to abolish ICE entirely, Donie.
And so, when you look at those positions that moderate Democrats raise concerns about hurting them in the fall. When you talk to some of the biggest progressive podcasters, streamers, one of them is Hasan Piker that you, I know, have interviewed for the documentary on Sunday night. When you talk to them and the concerns that you hear from the more mainstream Democrats, what do they tell you?
O'SULLIVAN: They're largely unapologetic. I mean, I think that they view themselves as sort of being in this position of having the upper hand right now. I've heard people sort of compare this to the Democratic Party's Tea Party moment in terms of an insurgent group trying to remake the party in its image.
But really, I mean, I think what you're seeing is, and as Harry alluded to, is that this idea that Democratic socialism, particularly the word socialism, is scary. It is still scary to a lot of Americans. I mean, there's the connection, you know, people equated with communism back to McCarthyism, everything else. Of course, what we're seeing is many young people view Democratic socialism as Norway, and many European countries. They're not thinking of Soviet Russia or something like that.
But of course, the key question is going to be how will all that actually play out in a general election, which of course is why Michigan is so critical on Tuesday.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously we're looking to that on Tuesday. I mean, when you're looking at this, and whether or not these candidates can win, Harry, what do the numbers show you so far?
ENTEN: We're talking about Wisconsin, right? We're talking about Wisconsin. Hong very much the clear -- in the driver's seat, that primary on Tuesday. But just a few weeks away. Look at the general election polling. She can win. She can do this thing.
At this particular point, given how unpopular Donald Trump is, I think anyone that has any remnants of any sort of campaign that doesn't completely turn off voters can win. You see it right there among likely voters. Now, maybe if she was more towards the center, she'd be blowing Tiffany out.
But the fact is, in a year in which Donald Trump's approval rating, nationwide, in our latest CNN poll was what 34 percent, just one in three? And we're talking about two in three Americans who disapprove? Oh, I think that you could definitely see a lot of Democratic socialists, even in swing states, winning, given how unpopular this president is.
COLLINS: I mean, I feel like given that, and given what we're going to be watching in Michigan, on Tuesday night, that Donie, your documentary on Sunday night that's airing here on CNN, it really is required viewing for people to kind of get a sense and understand what this movement looks like and how long it's been building. It's not an overnight thing. And what your biggest takeaways have been.
O'SULLIVAN: That is so kind of you to say, Kaitlan. I agree. It is absolutely required viewing.
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: I actually mean--
(CROSSTALK)
O'SULLIVAN: And you know, we've -- as you mentioned, we've been traveling the country all throughout the year doing this.
I want to play a clip from the No Kings protest here in Manhattan from a few months ago, where we spoke to Cynthia Nixon. You might remember her as "Miranda" on "Sex and the City." She ran as a Democratic socialist candidate, back in 2018. And she just talks about just how much things have changed over the past few years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CYNTHIA NIXON, ACTRESS: I think the Democratic Party because, of its donor base, keeps trying to push its base towards the center, and nobody wants to be in the center right now.
O'SULLIVAN: I've always identified as a Miranda, so.
NIXON: Well, thank you.
O'SULLIVAN: What has, you think, changed within the Democratic Party since you ran for governor?
NIXON: I think not enough has changed within the Democratic Party, and I think the Democratic Party is a slow, lumbering giant, very slow to wake up.
MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK STATE: No Kings.
CROWD: No Kings.
MAMDANI: No Cuomo.
CROWD: No Cuomo.
MAMDANI: No ICE.
CROWD: No ICE.
NIXON: The election of Zohran Mamdani, who's a Democratic socialist, which is a dirty word for a lot of people. We've got more and more people like him running across the country.
MAMDANI: Happy May Day, New York City.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And you can see more of Donie's new documentary, "The Left Insurgency," for "The Whole Story With Anderson Cooper" this Sunday at 08:00 p.m. Eastern.
Donie and Harry, as always, great to have you both here joining us on THE SOURCE.
Up next. It is time for Source Code, where we give you a number at the center of a news story. Can you figure out what the story is? Tonight's Source Code is six, and we'll be right back with the answer.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is six. That's how many countries in Africa were labeled incorrectly on a map that was used by the State Department at an international conference focused on AIDS this week. Among the six mistakes, the map showed coastal Nigeria as a landlocked country, and it positioned Mozambique some hundreds of miles out of place, despite its real-world location bordering South Africa on the continent's west coast.
A Reuters analysis found that the map contained a watermark showing it was made with OpenAI tools. A State Department spokesperson called it an unfortunate error by a team member. I'll note that after the President returned to the White House, the State Department made major cuts to global health funding and lost a significant number of career experts.
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
[22:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP: Tonight. The President says he'll put Todd Blanche's nomination on ice until the Republican senators pushing back are gone. But one holdout warns, that's not a safe bet--
