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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Polls Close In Michigan, El-Sayed, Stevens Face Off; CNN Projects Jocelyn Benson Wins MI Dem Gov. Primary; CNN Projects Cori Bush Will Lose Primary Rematch. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 04, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
DAVID AXELROD, POLITICAL CONSULTANT AND FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The idea that these progressives are sweeping all of these races is--
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, POLLSTER: But I think people are going to look at Mamdani, they're going to look at El-Sayed, and they're going to go, That's the model of the future. And it will be fascinating to be--
AXELROD: Yes, I don't think that's how--
(CROSSTALK)
SOLTIS ANDERSON: --on the sidelines as a Republican--
AXELROD: I don't think that's how voters are going to make these decisions. I really don't.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: David Axelrod. Van Jones. Kristen Soltis Anderson. Scott Jennings. Thank you all for being here.
This is going to be a long night as the votes continue to come in from the primaries across America.
CNN's Election Night coverage continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: And good evening. I'm Kaitlan Collins. And you are watching CNN's special breaking news coverage of Election Night in America.
There are primaries in five states tonight, but there is one Senate primary in particular that has the entire country watching. That's in Michigan, where polls have closed, the votes are being counted, and the progressive left is facing its next big test tonight.
Congresswoman Haley Stevens is running there as the more pragmatic establishment Democrat, who says she's focused on manufacturing, jobs, and electability.
The former county health director, Abdul El-Sayed, is making the case, on the other hand, for a more progressive, combative direction for his party, centered on expanding health care and reducing the influence of big money in politics.
The debate over issues like Israel and Gaza, law enforcement and policing, are all part of the divide that is shaping up tonight.
And while progressive challengers we've seen over the last several weeks and months have been knocking off establishment Democrats in several House races, this year, and a few others. A Senate nomination in Michigan, which is one of the country's most closely-fought battlegrounds, would send a much bigger message.
If Democratic voters choose the progressive challenger tonight, that message won't stop in Michigan, but it's going to be heard all the way here in Washington, and will likely raise new questions about who speaks for the Democratic Party and what Democratic voters are looking for.
It's not a stretch to say that this race could decide control of the United States Senate.
And on that note, John King is monitoring all of the returns right now at the Magic Wall.
And John, obviously, we've been watching this closely. We have been talking about this race non-stop.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
COLLINS: How are things looking so far tonight?
KING: Kaitlan, a critical hour ahead. As you noted. The polls have finally closed. Michigan, sadly, is notoriously slow counting votes. But after all the polls close, we do stand to start to see at least more results come in.
At the moment, how is it looking? The insurgent challenger, you would say, Haley Stevens is a member of the House. She's not in Senate. But she is the establishment. He is the insurgency. Abdul El-Sayed ahead at the moment, 53 percent to 44 percent there, I'm rounding him up a bit. About 17 percent of the vote in. So, that's significant. You want to come out of the gate and you want to hold the lead.
The question is, what are we waiting for? And if you look at the map, you see all that gray. That means zero votes from any of those counties. So, we're waiting for quite a bit.
But let's just start down here. Wayne County is Detroit. It is the base of the Democratic Party. It is by far the largest county. You have an African American population, Democratic base in the city. You have a lot, tens of thousands of Arab American voters in Dearborn, Dearborn Heights, Hamtramck. That all plays out here in Wayne County.
And you look, with just 2 percent of the vote in Wayne County, you know, 2,300 votes, 2,100 votes, we have a long way to go. And I said Michigan is notoriously slow. Wayne County is even more slower -- slow -- counts more slowly -- let me try that in English -- than the rest of the state.
At the moment, if you look at Macomb County, which is next to that, it's the third largest county, and Oakland County, which is right next to it, the second largest county. Look how close these margins are out of the gate here, 50 to 48, if you round those up. Oakland County is where Haley Stevens' congressional district is right here.
I was at an Abdul El-Sayed event just across the Detroit line, here in Oakland County, just a couple of weeks ago. Again, this is you get from the more gritty suburbs here into the more affluent suburbs out here, this is a hugely important second largest county in the state. Look at it right now, 49 to 49. Come over here to Macomb County. Blue collar, union, auto workers, and the like. Again, 49, 46. Down in Wayne County itself, look at that. Again, the margins in the three biggest counties right now are very, very close. But we have a lot of votes to count.
And then the question is, Kaitlan, does somebody pull away in the more populated area? And are we counting all the way up through the Upper Area and up through the Upper Peninsula? That's what we'll see in the hours ahead.
But when you go statewide at the moment, El-Sayed with a lead. What Haley Stevens is hoping for is that she can boost her numbers. You see the dark blue. She needs dark blue in the urban areas. If this down here stays dark blue, she's got a chance. You start seeing any of those bigger counties shifting toward El-Sayed, then the math would change. But it's Michigan. We're going to be counting a while.
COLLINS: Well, good. That means we have you here the whole hour, John.
KING: Right.
COLLINS: And as that gray fills in, we're going to be checking back in with you at the Magic Wall.
KING: Right. I'll be here.
COLLINS: John King, we'll see you in a few moments.
KING: Right.
COLLINS: Right now, I want to go to Detroit. That's where my colleagues, Jeff Zeleny, and Arlette Saenz are both standing by.
Arlette is at Abdul El-Sayed's campaign headquarters tonight.
[21:05:00]
And Arlette, obviously, the big question is how the candidates themselves and their campaigns are feeling, and as the votes are now coming in and being counted.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is a lot of excitement and optimism coursing through this primary event for Abdul El-Sayed, as his team is very optimistic about the chances of him emerging as the victor in this Democratic primary, this evening.
And speaking with senior advisers, this evening, they really believe that part of the reason that he could be successful in this Democratic primary is because he's maintained a very consistent message, returning to three refrains during this campaign, of getting money out of politics, money in people's pockets, and promoting Medicare for All.
In talking with a lot of El-Sayed's supporters, earlier today, they said that the idea of big money being spent in this race by outside forces was a real frustration for them and a big reason why they decided to vote for El-Sayed in this campaign.
Haley Stevens, the more moderate candidate, saw more than $60 million spent on her behalf by outside groups, and many voters said that that was simply a turnoff in this race.
But this contest is really such a big test for the progressive movement. I spoke a little bit earlier with Melat Kiros. She is that Democratic socialist who beat a Democratic incumbent in a U.S. House primary out in Colorado. She is on hand here at this event, and she told me that she believes El-Sayed is about to send a message that the progressive movement can be successful in a battleground state like Michigan.
So, all eyes will be on how exactly this race turns out, if a progressive can win, and then the big question is how they would perform in a midterm election against a Republican here in a very swingy purple state of Michigan.
COLLINS: All right. Arlette Saenz, we'll check back in with you throughout the hour.
Jeff Zeleny, you're over at Haley Stevens' headquarters. What is their campaign -- what's her campaign saying tonight?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, the supporters of Haley Stevens are not here behind me, but I can see them just in the distance there. There's an open bar. There's a charcuterie buffet. There are several dozen supporters here in a fairly upbeat mood, but that belies the true sentiment of what many of her loyal supporters actually worry may be happening this evening.
Yes, the votes are coming in, as John was talking about. Oakland County so important here, just north of Detroit, of course, her home base. But this establishment movement here, she has the full weight of the party establishment. It's very much an open question if it will be able to slow or stop the progressive movement.
And talking to advisers and supporters throughout the day, they sort of view these -- the Democratic primary here with three lanes.
African American voters, which is a huge part of the electorate here, very important, historic part of the electorate here, have largely supported Haley Stevens.
The progressive movement have largely supported Abdul El-Sayed.
It's that mainstream Democratic movement in the middle that some Stevens supporters worry Abdul El-Sayed has been eating into as he has been really calling for change.
Now, Haley Stevens is not in the U.S. Senate, but she is in the U.S. House. She talks about how she will be elected to get it done. She talks about the bills that she has helped pass. That is not the mood of this electorate. This is a Democratic electorate looking for change, calling for change in any flavor that you may want to describe it as. So, her credentials here are not necessarily being rallied by a lot of voters.
But it is also unclear what the turnout is going to be. One of the things that her campaign was looking for was a big boost of support from the Governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer, who came out a couple weeks ago and supported her. She's not here this evening, and she has not been on the campaign trail with her this weekend. So, there are some signs perhaps to be read into that as well.
But the bottom line is here for all of the talk about the fight for the direction of the Democratic Party. One person is watching all of this, this evening. That is Mike Rogers, the Republican, a former Congressman who is the likely nominee as well. He believes that he has benefited from all of this.
COLLINS: Yes.
ZELENY: And the big question for Democrats, even as they're still hoping for a victory here, is that can Democrats unify after all of this is over?
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Jeff, can I ask you? I mean, you've covered so many campaigns and Election Nights.
We could hear how loud it is at the Abdul El-Sayed headquarters, where Arlette is.
It is odd, to see the room that you're in. You said that Haley Stevens' supporters are off to the side.
I mean, does it strike you as different compared to other ones that you've covered on these Election Nights?
ZELENY: It does in terms of optics.
I literally can look into a room next to this. There are signs that say, I'm your gal. That has been one of her rallying cries.
I can see a bar. I can see supporters. There's a grand piano.
Unclear why it was set up like this, why this room is empty behind me here.
But I can tell you, there are people in the distance.
[21:10:00]
But that does not necessarily change the fact that there is a sense here that this may not be a victory party for long, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes.
Also interesting that Whitmer herself is not there.
Jeff Zeleny, we'll check back in with you throughout the hour. Thank you.
ZELENY: Yes.
COLLINS: And I do want to note, as we are counting the votes in Michigan tonight, we have a CNN projection to make, as our Decision Desk now projects that Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson will win the Democratic nomination for governor.
She right now is the state's top elections official who drew the national attention, remember, back in 2020, when she defended their election results in other battleground states. She is now going to be advancing to a potentially competitive general election, as Democrats are working to defend the Governor's Mansion that Jeff Zeleny was just talking about there.
As we count the votes tonight. I have our top political sources with me this evening.
And Karen, obviously, we're just looking at the optics of where Jeff is, where Arlette is, what the headquarters look like for these different campaigns. We don't know what that means for what the votes are going to say tonight.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Yes.
COLLINS: But tonight is a really big test. Can these more progressive challengers that have been succeeding in deep blue territory, can they do so in a true political battleground like Michigan?
FINNEY: Look, I think ultimately this is -- tonight is about trust, and that is who do voters trust to deliver what they care about. And I think, Arlette -- in an interview earlier today, and a voter said something I think is very important that I hope all Democrats pay attention to, which is she said, I want Democrats to fight for what Democrats believe in, the way Republicans fight for what they say they believe in. And that tells you, that is the gap right now.
People have not felt like Democratic elected officials, at least here in Washington, have been fighting for them, the way they have seen Republican -- I mean, granted, I would not ever want my Democrats to bend over, the way these guys do for Trump.
That being said, I think they feel like they're angry, and I think that's part of why Haley has been out there trying to make her case. It was interesting what Jeff was saying. She's been trying to say, I am fighting for you, I am here, I am in your community. And I've heard that's paid off. Like, people are -- they like the fact that they've seen her there on the ground. Some of our incumbents have not been doing that, and that is part of why almost the like Andrew Cuomo effect that we saw in New York.
The last thing I'll say is, with Sayed, in all fairness, we have not accurately covered the fact that he is, frankly -- the issue about Gaza and Israel is like so low on what people actually care about. This is a guy who got $7 million of health care debt canceled for 300,000 Michiganders. When he goes out and he talks about that, and he talks about money in politics, and he talks about lowering costs, and he talks about health care, that's what they really care about.
So, it will be interesting to see, but I hope we pay attention to what voters are saying.
COLLINS: Well, and Bernie Sanders urged him to talk more about health care and that issue that he's been so public about.
When you look at this, Shermichael, in terms of -- you heard Jeff mention Mike Rogers.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes.
COLLINS: That's the Republican that whichever Democrat wins tonight is going to be facing. How are Republicans watching tonight in Michigan?
SINGLETON: Well, we're hoping that Democrats make the catastrophic mistake of electing El-Sayed, and I'll tell you why. He may not identify as a Democratic socialist, but there's a reason every single Democratic prominent socialist in America is endorsing his candidacy.
There is a reason why, when you look at polling, segmentation of voters, older African American voters are not registering and supporting him in high numbers. Blue collar, non-college degree Michiganders are not supporting him in high numbers.
And so, if you're a Democrat, and you're trying to figure out your micro-targeting, where can you pull the coalition together to beat a Mike Rogers, who by the way only lost by 19,000 votes against Elissa Slotkin, several years ago, the closest Senate race in Michigan history? You have got to be nervous about whether or not this guy can pull together that traditional coalition, that Karen is definitely familiar with as a Democrat, to get him across the finish line.
I'm not convinced that he is. There's a lot about this guy and his views that have not been revealed to Michiganders on a broad scale yet. And I promise you, we're going to target him hard and heavy.
COLLINS: I mean, how are Democratic leaders in Washington watching this tonight, Manu?
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They're nervous. Because, I mean, coming into this, I mean, the conventional wisdom in this town is that Abdul El-Sayed is the frontrunner and very likely could be the nominee. And I can tell you, the campaigns are already being written, assuming that Abdul El-Sayed is the nominee. On the GOP side.
The question will be on the Democratic side: How will they recalibrate in terms of deciding where to put money across the map. They know they absolutely have to hold Michigan. Do they decide to go all-out, spend all that kinds of money that -- you know, El-Sayed has been railing against all the outside money that's been coming in against him. He's been outspent by an enormous amount by Haley Stevens and outside groups. Will those same outside groups come in and try to prop him up, knowing that they have to do, hold on to this seat? That's going to be a big question coming in.
And I will say that a lot of -- yes, Mike Rogers barely lost last cycle. Last cycle was much different.
FINNEY: Yes.
[21:15:00]
RAJU: It was a presidential year. Donald Trump was at the top of the ticket. He is far less popular now. The question that I have: How much does he latch himself on to Trump. Is that a good calculation? Because he made that calculation in 2024. It almost got him across the finish line. This time could be different.
COLLINS: Yes, and in terms of just what it means, I mean. Because Chuck Schumer has effectively endorsed Haley Stevens in this race. Bernie Sanders is someone who has broken with him, and is endorsing different candidates all over the place--
FINNEY: Shocked.
COLLINS: --that Democratic leaders in Washington don't appreciate.
But when we had Bernie Sanders on the show last week, I asked him, What message does it send if Abdul El-Sayed wins tonight? And this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): What are they afraid of? And the answer is that if Abdul wins -- it's going to be a close race. But if he's able to withstand this $60 million in expenditure, the word goes out all over the country: We can take on the oligarchs, we can take on the Super PACs, and in fact, we can create a government that works for all. That is what makes the Democratic leadership very nervous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It is true that Stevens got $60 million more than he did in outside spending.
FINNEY: And let me tell you, people hate that, and they hate it even more because they see the corruption in Washington. I mean, I mentioned this months ago. I'm on the Board of End Citizens United. Months ago, in focus groups, unprompted, people were saying, Corruption in Washington is keeping my costs high.
So, when he talks also about her being bought and paid for? Whether that's true or not, I don't know her voting record. People hear that, and you've heard voters repeating it back, they're furious about it. And every day they see Trump doing more of that, it makes them feel more like, Washington is corrupt. These people don't care about me. They're bought and paid for. And they don't really distinguish, by the way, most voters, between it's a Republican Super PAC or a Democratic Super PAC. They just hear big money in politics, and they hate it because they think, It's not about me.
SINGLETON: But -- but when the big money comes to prop up El-Sayed, which is necessary because there is a cash advantage on the Republican side compared to the Democratic side, what will he do? Will he run and retract and say, I don't want a national support to help me win this race because, I want to be morally consistent?
FINNEY: If I--
SINGLETON: Or will he be the hypocrite and say, No, I need all the dollars I can to get me across the finish line.
And what does that do to the moral supremacy, I suppose he believes he has in his argument paramount--
RAJU: Because he has -- he has sworn off corporate PAC money.
SINGLETON: He has.
FINNEY: Yes, he has--
RAJU: And how will that change, come general election?
SINGLETON: Yes.
RAJU: A lot is on the line too--
FINNEY: Yes.
RAJU: --for Bernie Sanders tonight and in this cycle, especially if Abdul El-Sayed wins. He was an early supporter of his. We saw what happened with Graham Platner, Bernie Sanders getting him behind there.
And also, a critical battleground race tonight, Kaitlan, in the Michigan congressional district. Tom Barrett, the incumbent Republican candidate there. Democrats absolutely must pick up that seat. Bernie Sanders has backed the candidate William Lawrence in that Democratic primary that the Congressional Black Caucus opposes. And if Lawrence wins--
COLLINS: Because of his past comments.
FINNEY: Yes. RAJU: Because of his past comments. And if Lawrence wins, that's another Bernie Sanders candidate who wins, and that -- he'll have to help push that person across the finish line.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a great point.
And we will be watching that very closely, in addition to all the races tonight.
My whole panel is sticking around.
Up next here for us. As the votes are being counted, what tonight means for the progressive movement and the future of the Democratic Party. We have Congressman Ro Khanna, and Van Jones, both here for a debate you will not want to miss.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're back with another CNN projection, as we can now say that the Missouri Congressman Wesley Bell will defeat the progressive former Congresswoman Cori Bush in a reprise of their 2024 battle for the Democratic nomination in the state's 1st Congressional District tonight. Obviously, Bush had been hoping to build on the growing progressive sentiment in her party in that race tonight, but Bell is going to hold onto that seat.
It also comes as we're watching the results come in for Michigan's Democratic Senate primary that we've been talking about. The emergence of a candidate like Abdul El-Sayed, who eight years ago lost his race for governor, to Gretchen Whitmer, by 20 points, has been part of that wider shift in the Democratic Party.
One of my next sources, Congressman Ro Khanna, has embraced that shift and has endorsed Abdul El-Sayed in this race.
The other, Van Jones, has warned against the Democratic Party shifting too far.
Both of you are here tonight, and thank you for being here.
Congressman, as you're watching this, and you're seeing who progressives are backing, who more establishment Democrats are backing in this race tonight, what message do you believe an Abdul El-Sayed victory would send tonight?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Look, this is not a personal race. I know both of the candidates. I served with Haley Stevens in the Obama administration, and of course I've worked with Abdul El-Sayed.
The reason he's winning is simple: he's fought for Medicare for All. People are very upset that they don't have health care, that their insurance premiums are going up. He's saying we shouldn't be giving more money into these foreign wars. People see their gas prices going up, they see their food prices going up, and that's resonating. And he's saying we should be taxing these billionaires and giving actually more money to the working class. And that message is resonating.
But if he wins, which I believe he will, we need to bring the coalition together. Haley did incredible work with Ron Bloom to save the auto industry. I was there in the Obama administration. And we need to unify around our nominee to win this seat.
COLLINS: Van, how are you seeing this tonight?
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I got a chance to talk to young voters on both sides of this in Michigan, and I learned so much.
[21:25:00]
Abdul, and you know -- and we know him. He was at CNN for a while. If he wins tonight, it's a first. We've never had a Muslim make it this far in the Democratic Party nominating process for a senator. So, if you're a young Muslim right now, you're looking at these numbers. This is one of the biggest nights of your life to see something like this happening and what that means for you.
But whenever you have a first, there's hopes and there's fears.
I learned from the young voters who are, for Haley Stevens, they're afraid. They look at someone like Abdul, who's calling for a total arms embargo, not just condition the aid, not just condition the military aid, but a total arms embargo. No defensive weapons, not even the Iron Dome, is acceptable to him. They see that as a direct threat to Israel. And so, there's fear, I think, for some, as they watch his rise.
And then, at the same time, I do think that the young voters who are excited about Abdul, they told me about an economic reality that they can't handle. The price is too high. They feel like the morals of the country are wrong, that the lives of Palestinian babies are not valued, and they want somebody to stand up for their morals and their values. And so, you've got a young generation here that's really struggling economically. They're struggling with moral questions.
I think Abdul is probably going to win tonight. I think he has a tremendous opportunity to maybe back off of some of the more extreme policies. You want to condition aid, that's one thing. But to say that Israel can't even defend itself, it can't even buy weapons to defend itself from America, that's too far. So, I think he's got an opportunity to readjust, reassure some of these young Jewish voters.
But this is a big moment for young Arabs and young Muslims, and I think you got to -- you got to give that moment to him tonight. It's historic tonight in our party.
COLLINS: I mean, Congressman, you know him, the candidate, better than I do. Obviously, you've endorsed him in this race. But, I mean, he's very brash and doesn't back off of his positions at all in his interviews. If he wins tonight, I mean, do you think he should follow Van's advice there? Or do you think he'll stick to, to what he's been running on, on the campaign trail? KHANNA: Well, he's going to stick to Medicare for All. I mean, he's a doctor; he wrote a book about it, and to me, that was actually the central issue that's winning this race for him.
I know there's a lot of attention on the other issues. But when I campaigned with him across the State of Michigan, people were saying, Look, Trump cut a trillion dollars from Medicaid. Our premiums are going up. Why can't we have free universal health care in a country that's producing more wealth than ever before?
He's going to stick to the idea that we shouldn't be giving our money to foreign countries and in these foreign wars, and we should be investing domestically. And I believe he's going to stick to the idea in Gaza that there was a genocide.
I mean, I've been in Dearborn to the Wall of Tears. There are 19,000 names there of young Palestinians who were killed, with their age. I mean, it is heart-wrenching. Of course, October 7th was a terrorist attack, that was heart-wrenching. I've met with Rachel and Jon Polin who lost Hersh, I understand that pain. But we can also acknowledge that there was enormous pain in Gaza that was committed, and he's going to stick to that.
I believe that on the Iron Dome, I have said that, that that's something that Israel should be able to buy, that United States shouldn't be able -- shouldn't be sending them aid, but they should be able to buy because we have 700,000 Americans there, in Israel, and we don't want any civilian life to be killed. So, that's something that--
JONES: Abdul--
KHANNA: --we can continue to have a conversation about.
JONES: Look, I think -- and look, and I respect your position on that. But that's not Abdul's position. I hope that he changes that position because to say that Israel can't even buy weapons to defend itself is it's too far, and that puts a message out that it's open season for Israeli children, which we don't want.
Look, I think this is a very important moment in this party. These young voters that I talked to, they were on, both sides, they were very smart.
This idea: you have this young generation of people who are just lazy, they just want a bunch of free stuff.
These young people are working two or three gig jobs. They can see that the country is not working for them. They want real change. I think if the establishment candidates, you know, this -- this is what happens in democracy. If you get too far away from everyday people's pain and you don't have good answers, democracy moves away from you. So, I don't think it's about putting folks down and name-calling, but it is about the wake-up call. If the establishment candidates have better answers, they are not getting through the next generation. They are just not.
COLLINS: Yes, and some other things that Abdul El-Sayed has said on Israel.
He says, I don't believe in an unconditional blank check for military aid. He's talked about what that looks like with international law.
He says, I'd rather spend our money on health care and schools and infrastructure here at home than bombing other people elsewhere.
When he was asked if he thinks Israel is as evil as Hamas, he said yes. Killing tens of thousands of people makes you pretty damn evil. It's not how evil is this one versus that one. Hamas is evil. Israeli government evil. You can say both. That was his quote.
JONES: Look, I think that kind of speaks for itself. This is the kind -- the kind of thing that I think people have a problem with.
[21:30:00]
Look, conditioning aid at this point, you can understand why people would say that. People feel that Israel overreacted to October 7th. But now there may be an overcorrection in our party that says, Don't even sell them weapons to defend their children. That doesn't make a lot of sense.
The Iron Dome was Obama's attempt to protect -- is a defensive weapon, just so you can't drop rockets on Israelis. You've now got somebody who might be in the Senate, saying, That's not even -- that they object to that, that you should just leave Israeli children to be bombed and rocketed. Nobody in their right mind should say that. Just like as the Congressperson said, nobody in their right mind wants all these Palestinian children to be bombed. And so, I think this is why there is concern in our party that your people are going too far in one direction.
But if the establishment just picks on Abdul for these excesses, and they don't listen to what he's saying about money out of politics, they don't listen to what he's saying about the corporate influence, they don't listen to what he's saying about the pain of a health care system that people cannot afford, even when they get insurance, you still can't pay the premiums? Then you're missing the whole point.
This is a -- this is a mixed message. Some of it's too extreme, but some of it is right on the money. And the establishment has got to start listening to these young people. They've got to start listening to candidates like Abdul. And if you don't like getting whooped, like you're going to get whooped tonight, then you're going to have to make some changes at the establishment level.
COLLINS: Congressman, do you think that Democratic leaders will take away with that message there tonight, should he prevail?
KHANNA: They need to. Look, Van and I both remember when Barack Obama won in his speech at Grant Park--
JONES: Yes.
KHANNA: --and how that opened the doors and changed the view of leadership in this country. I'd say, I wouldn't have been in Congress if Barack Obama hadn't won, an Indian American of Hindu faith would never have been elected. And we both had the opportunity, along with Haley, to work for Obama.
I believe the victories we are seeing across this country, Zohran Mamdani, a Muslim American person becoming Mayor of New York, Abdul El-Sayed, looking like he's going to be the first Muslim American to be senator of Michigan, we should celebrate this.
This is in Donald Trump's America, and America saying, You know what? We're actually a multi-racial democracy. We're a democracy that welcomes everyone. That Donald Trump, your vision, JD Vance, your vision of hierarchical Americans, we reject that. We're much better than that.
And yes, we can have a debate about the specifics, policies. I've told you that I believe we need to be protecting Israeli civilian lives, like Palestinian lives, American lives. There are 700,000 American lives.
COLLINS: Yes.
KHANNA: But let's not lose the bigger picture about what this represents in changing. It's historic in Michigan, a swing state.
JONES: Want to echo that.
KHANNA: And every person who's brown or black or a different faith should look at this and say, You know what? I can run for office and I can become a senator. I could become president. That's an amazing thing. It's an amazing thing for the country.
JONES: I agree with that.
COLLINS: Yes.
JONES: Look, I just -- and I just wanted to--
COLLINS: Van Jones?
JONES: OK, I just wanted to echo that. If you are a young Muslim kid or an Arab kid, look at these numbers. Look at these numbers right next to us. You can do anything you want to in this country. We need you. We love you. If you are -- if you're a parent with tears in your eyes tonight, I get it. We can talk about, as the Congressman said, the politics later. It's history tonight. And God bless you.
COLLINS: Van Jones. Congressman Ro Khanna.
We will continue to look at the numbers here. We're going to keep counting as John King is at the Magic Wall for us tonight.
Thank you both for being here.
My next source tonight also ran against Haley Stevens and Abdul El- Sayed for the Democratic Party's Senate nomination in Michigan. What does she think about what we are seeing so far tonight? She's here right after this.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: My next source tonight was also previously running in Michigan's Democratic Senate primary that is playing out right now. And despite getting endorsements from several national Democrats, she eventually withdrew last month, after struggling to carve out a distinct lane between these other two candidates that we've been talking about. And State Senator Mallory McMorrow joins me now.
And thank you so much for being here.
Obviously, you're deeply familiar with how this race is playing out tonight. I think one question for your party is: no matter which candidate wins tonight, how do Democrats in your state unify, given how bruising the primary campaign has been?
STATE SEN. MALLORY MCMORROW, (D) MICHIGAN: Look, the thing about Michigan is we are a purple battleground state. And when you looked at the three of us in this race, at the end of the day, the differences between the three of us were pretty narrow. We all wanted you to have health care. We all wanted to end illegal wars. We all wanted to rein in the corruption of the Trump administration. The ideas on how we wanted to do that differed.
But the contrast couldn't be clearer between anybody running on the Democratic side and Mike Rogers, who stood on stage with Donald Trump, just in the last few days and said that Michigan needs a senator that is not going to stand in the way of Donald Trump's agenda. A man who has dismissed Michiganders' concerns about affordability.
So, what's important today is that we all come together tonight. We reach out to supporters of all of the candidates, and be laser-focused on November. And if I know anything about Michiganders, we're going to do exactly that.
COLLINS: And we're still counting the votes. We don't know yet who the nominee is going to be. If Abdul El-Sayed holds on to the lead, though, that he has right now, based on what the returns we do have, do you think that Democratic leaders in Washington have been taking the kind of progressive insurgency that we've been seeing? Do you think they've been taking it seriously enough so far?
[21:40:00]
MCMORROW: Look, something that was true in my campaign, you know, when I announced in April of last year, I said from day one that we needed new leadership in the Democratic Party.
And we are seeing that people are crying out for change. They are saying that the cost of everything is too high; that it shouldn't be this hard to get by in a state like Michigan. In the United States of America. You should not go bankrupt when you go to the hospital if you have a medical condition. And after Trump won Michigan narrowly in 2024, I think a lot of voters have had enough, and we are seeing that play out across our state, not only tonight but at our Democratic Party convention months ago. We had a record number of delegates show up, sign up, join the Democratic Party, and I don't want us to lose that in splitting hairs between how ugly this primary got. And it did get pretty ugly.
People are energized, and they're engaged, and they are tired of the status quo and business as usual, and that's from both sides of the aisle. And I know that Michigan Democrats are a different breed, and we're going to take that seriously. We're going to come together. We're going to unite. And we're going to go win, not only in this race. Jocelyn Benson's race just got called--
COLLINS: Yes.
MCMORROW: --to be our Democratic nominee for governor. We're going to flip our State House back. We're going to expand our State Senate majority and show the rest of the country, Yes, we want change, and we're going to build it from right here in Michigan.
COLLINS: Do you mind telling us who you voted for today?
MCMORROW: I voted for great Democrats all up and down the ballot. And I made a commitment that whoever wins the Senate race tonight, I will be endorsing. As soon as that race is called, I will be headed to their Election Night party to show we all come together after whatever happens tonight, so that we can be a team as we head to November.
COLLINS: Well, the reason I ask is because if you voted for, say, Haley Stevens, and she is not the nominee tonight, and then you do go and endorse Abdul El-Sayed, it might resonate more with her voters or others in terms of your point about Democrats in Michigan uniting.
MCMORROW: Yes, I made it explicitly clear, I trust the voters to decide. I ran hoping that, that I would bring a lot to the table, as an option for Michiganders. Unfortunately, there was no path for me, and I decided to take a step back. But look, polling -- public polling showed that my supporters split just about evenly between both Abdul and Haley. So, I'm going to let the voters decide. I'm going to trust the voters, and I will be there, giving everything I got to make sure that we win.
COLLINS: I had to try.
MCMORROW: Sure.
COLLINS: State Senator Mallory McMorrow, thank you for joining us tonight, and we will see who the nominee is and who you end up endorsing tonight. Thank you for joining us.
MCMORROW: Thanks, Kaitlan. Thank you so much.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to check back in with John King at the Magic Wall. You heard her there. She says she'll endorse whoever the candidate is. We'll see what the numbers are showing us tonight in Michigan.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're continuing to count the votes in the high-stakes Michigan Democratic Senate primary tonight between Abdul El-Sayed and Haley Stevens on this Election Night.
John King is at the Magic Wall.
John King, we checked in with you about 47 minutes ago. How's it looking so far?
KING: Kaitlan, John King is not known as a patient man. But Michigan--
COLLINS: Me neither.
KING: --Michigan requires you to be patient. We're up to about 22 percent of the vote. El-Sayed -- look, you know, part of this is you want to be the leading horse out of the gate, and you want to continue to hold the lead. El-Sayed was leading out of the gate, and he has continued to hold the lead. But we're at 22 percent of the votes. We have a ways to go. But it's a 20,000 vote lead, or 51 to 45, if you do it.
So, you bring up the state. You're starting to see a good thing. More of these counties are giving us votes. And if you're just looking with your eyes, it seems roughly even split. Right? The dark blue is Haley Stevens. The lighter blue is Abdul El-Sayed. The question is, where are the votes, right?
And so, we're going to do this again, and this is where we get disappointed. We're going to go down to Wayne County -- whoop, that's Monroe. Sorry, that's just south of Detroit, but they're in the same boat.
Wayne County is the largest metropolitan area. It's the largest county in the state. It's the number one population center. It's about 18 percent of the statewide vote. It's the Democratic base in this state, and we have 2 percent of the vote. So, we're going to be here a bit. I've done this for a long time, as you know, and sometimes it's 10:00, 11:00, sometimes even midnight before you get a critical mass out of Wayne County. So, we're waiting right there.
And you look at Oakland County there, Kaitlan, they're counting faster. El-Sayed's ahead. Wayne County is going to decide whether he holds that lead.
COLLINS: John King, you think we'll know by the end of tonight where it stands?
KING: Oh, you're not going to do that to me, are you?
(LAUGHTER)
KING: We should. We should. When Wayne County pushes us some votes, we should.
COLLINS: OK.
KING: But end of tonight would be 11:59:59, right?
COLLINS: Yes.
KING: Yes, by then, yes.
COLLINS: Your coffee's on me, John King. Don't worry.
KING: Amen.
COLLINS: Maybe it was some -- something else. We'll check back in with you. Thank you, John King.
KING: All right.
COLLINS: My panel is back here with me.
Obviously, we've been watching all this closely. One person who -- you know, Mallory McMorrow was saying she's going to endorse once we know who it is. Pete Buttigieg is also expected to rally with whoever it is that takes away from this ticket, come Friday, but has not yet endorsed in this race.
But he told Politico this, about what he's watching.
[21:50:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: I think that I'm going to have an important -- not important -- but it is important to me--
JONATHAN MARTIN, POLITICS BUREAU CHIEF AND SENIOR POLITICAL COLUMNIST, POLITICO: Sure.
BUTTIGIEG: --that I play a good role in helping the party come together.
Obviously, it's a very spirited primary, right?
MARTIN: Right.
BUTTIGIEG: Which means you've got just a few weeks to get everybody on the same page.
MARTIN: Sure.
BUTTIGIEG: I want to be part of that. And so, the less I run my mouth about how I'm going to vote--
MARTIN: Right.
BUTTIGIEG: --the better role I can play afterwards and bring everybody together--
MARTIN: But it sounds--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It is interesting to see how people are watching this.
RAJU: Yes, and someone who may have run for the Senate himself, otherwise perhaps has an eye on something else at the moment here.
Look, the late primary clearly benefits the GOP, right? They made the decision early on, on the Republican side, Clear the field for Mike Rogers.
The Republican leadership consolidated behind Mike Rogers. They went to President Trump, they got President Trump's endorsement, and made sure that they knew full well they're seeing what's happening in some of their other states and their other messy primaries, like say Georgia, that's led to a very difficult situation, trying to pick up a seat, and they saw what was happening here with this open seat.
It's going to be a real challenge to try to put these pieces back together. This was a very divisive primary. Yes, Mallory McMorrow downplaying in your interview the differences between them. But the differences are very stark on some of these key issues: the issue of Gaza, the issue of Israel, the issue in the -- just the divide among the coalition too.
Younger voters really went to Abdul El-Sayed in a way that we probably are not seeing so far with Haley Stevens. We'll see how that turns out at the end of the night. I'll be very interested if Abdul El-Sayed wins tonight, what his coalition looks like, and how much work he has to do with particularly African American voters, which is a key, of course, demographic here.
COLLINS: Yes, and he said Medicare for All will be one of his number one issues if he makes it to the Senate. On AIPAC spending, he said, I'm going to let them burn $50 million of their dollars and still beat their candidate and still come for them when I'm in the U.S. Senate. I mean, that is how he is approaching this race tonight.
FINNEY: I would just remind us, Medicare for All, John Conyers, prominent member of the CBC, introduced that legislation over and over and over. So, some of these things actually have their roots in the black community. If he's smart, that would be part of how he talks about it.
I don't want to count Haley Stevens out yet though because, we don't know.
I did think it was interesting in that interview the way, though Pete was trying not to -- trying to have it both ways so that he could be a uniter at the -- you know, you see that in a lot of the presidentials. They want to be part of uniting the country.
SINGLETON: That's right. FINNEY: I think we're going to hear that talking point a few points -- a few times over in the next few months.
COLLINS: One question tonight obviously is we're looking at Michigan specifically, what it means, can he beat the Republican in this race if it is Abdul El-Sayed. Because, that's what Democratic leaders have been concerned about.
But for progressives overall, and the message this sends tonight, when they're not just playing in deep blue territory. In Wisconsin, another true political battleground, Francesca Hong, we were talking with her last night. Their primary is next week. She's been under fire for a lot of things that she said previously, when it comes to prisons shouldn't exist in a perfect world, ICE, defunding the police. Even she once said that she believed Thanksgiving should be canceled.
We had her on the show last night, and I asked her about this.
And Democrats were texting me today about the way she answered the question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you still believe that Thanksgiving should be canceled?
FRANCESCA HONG, (D) WISCONSIN GOV. CANDIDATE: I'm a chef, and one of the first meals that I made, that was for the community when I was 16, was a Thanksgiving meal. You know, I always think my hospitality background and owning a restaurant for seven, eight years, that bringing folks around the table, to share conversation and build community, is always a good thing.
But Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our communities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: David Axelrod said, Answers like that cause many to think if this chef wins the gubernatorial primary in Wisconsin, Democrats may be cooked.
SINGLETON: Yes, I mean, look, he's a 100 percent correct, I mean. A lot of these candidates are outside of the mainstream Democrat policies, I would say. Correct me if I'm wrong, Karen. As a Republican here.
FINNEY: Well you know I will. Yes.
SINGLETON: But that said though, I think Manu's point is correct. I've heard Karen make this argument for the past couple of weeks as well. If El-Sayed wins this thing, he's going into the general with a very fractured coalition.
This is going to be a competitive race. Michigan is a purple state. There are coalitions and cohorts within that state that you must gravitate and galvanize in order to get across the finish line. And someone with extreme far-left position, someone who doesn't believe Israel has the right to exist? Van said he hopes he pivots. But yet Hasan Piker is with him tonight, a guy who said that United States deserved September 11th. These are the types of people he's bringing on to his coalition?
I am just not convinced, Kaitlan, that that's the type of messaging that will permeate and get enough Democrats, particularly those moderates, particularly those who don't have a college degree, particularly those older African Americans, to say, This is going to be my candidate.
They want a fighter--
FINNEY: But--
SINGLETON: --not a disruptor who's going to burn it all down, and that's who this guy is.
[21:55:00]
FINNEY: No, he's not. He's -- he's -- I mean, he's been -- that's not -- based on what's going on, on the ground in Michigan, that's actually not how he's been campaigning. Either one of them is going to have to put together a winning coalition, a what I would call a rainbow coalition, actually, and I mean both of them because the Democratic Party is -- we are a big tent party, and that means you got to pull a lot together.
But I would not underestimate the desire to take out someone who represents Donald Trump. I would not underestimate the amount of vitriol, particularly in a state like Michigan. Think about the tariffs that have just come back. Think about how that has not impacted manufacturing -- you know, Donald Trump said, manufacturing's coming back.
COLLINS: Well, that's a question to -- to Manu's point earlier--
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: --is that this is a very different race than what Mike Rogers ran before--
FINNEY: Exactly.
COLLINS: --than what Abdul El-Sayed himself ran before in terms of if he does win tonight, and if he does pull this off, I mean the progressive momentum is real.
RAJU: Yes.
COLLINS: That will -- that's what this is going to demonstrate.
RAJU: But still--
FINNEY: And they're speaking to anger. They're speaking to real anger. RAJU: No question about that. And he's tapped into the anger effectively in the primary. But then, what about the general election?
FINNEY: Right.
RAJU: Will he shift to the middle, Abdul El-Sayed, as the nominee?
SINGLETON: Back to the fundamentals. Back to the fundamentals.
RAJU: Will he clean up some of his positions, like those past tweets?
FINNEY: We'll see.
RAJU: Those are the big questions.
SINGLETON: Yes.
COLLINS: Only 24 percent in so far. We still have a long way to go, as John King made very clear. But don't worry, he's sticking with us all night.
Thanks everyone for being here.
Up next. We have Source Code. We give you a number at the center of a story in the news. Tonight's Source Code is three. Can you figure out what the story is? We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is three, as in three more cases that were dropped by federal prosecutors against people who were previously charged in connection with allegedly damaging the Reflecting Pool.
[22:00:00]
That now makes four failed Reflecting Pool cases and indictments, after the D.C. U.S. attorney Jeanine Pirro moved to dismiss that case against the former Olympian David Hearn, last Friday night, which, as we saw yesterday in the Oval Office, enraged President Trump, after he told reporters that she choked and folded like an umbrella.
Her court filing blamed the damage on shoddy workmanship, not vandalism, and pinpointed the blame on the Interior Secretary, Doug Burgum, creating a rift between the two of them.
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight.
Our Election Night coverage is going to continue with my colleague, Abby Phillip, picking it up now.
