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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
GOP Opponent Labels El-Sayed An "Extremist" After His Win; Trump: Pirro Was "Totally Wrong" To Drop Reflecting Pool Case; Trump: Hormuz Will Reopen "Very Soon" Or Iran Will Get Hit. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 05, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: --no, not at all.
We didn't even cover all the things that are going on here. But I will tell you that there is a plan for another walkway over near the Lincoln, there's the arch which we talked about, refurbishment of a golf course.
And the President is clearly thrilled with the cleanup that he's done here. He says, we're making it clear and safe and all that.
D.C. was beautiful and clean and safe before he showed up. But nonetheless, he's proud of his accomplishments. And many White House watchers say what's very clear is he wants his imprint on this city to last a long time after his presidency is done.
John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Tom Foreman, you're the best. Ran six miles for this piece. Thank you very much.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: A seismic win in Michigan after a brutal campaign. But what's going to happen next in the fight ahead? Abdul El-Sayed is my source tonight.
And I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
The results of last night's Senate primary race have the President of the United States tonight lashing out. Democrats across the country deciphering what it means for their future. And the political impact from Dearborn to D.C. also being felt.
In Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed will become the next Democratic nominee after he narrowly defeated Congresswoman Haley Stevens in the most expensive Democratic primary ever. He will now face the Republican and former Congressman Mike Rogers, who responded to his win by saying, quote, "Abdul isn't just another liberal. He's an extremist." A message that is already being going on the air in a new Republican TV ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Abdulrahman Mohamed El-Sayed, the most radical Senate candidate in America.
ABDUL EL-SAYED, (D) MICHIGAN SENATE NOMINEE: I'm pretty (bleep) dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Abdul El-Sayed. Too radical. Too dangerous. Wrong for Michigan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It's also not just the attack ads that have started.
El-Sayed's projected win also got the attention of President Trump today, who was in Las Vegas this afternoon and launched this lengthy attack against him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And the polls were wrong again last night, when they thought it would be a landslide victory for a hater of Jews and a hater of Israel. This guy -- this guy hates Jews.
(BOOING)
TRUMP: Somebody said, Oh, that's a little strong.
No, he hates Jews and he hates Israel.
Abdul El-Sayed.
(BOOING)
TRUMP: Can you believe this?
(BOOING)
TRUMP: This -- this could only happen to me.
Abdul El-Sayed. Lovely gentleman. He's a man of hate. And now he's going around saying, No, I love everybody, I love -- he doesn't love everybody. Put him in office, you're going to find out what he loves. He doesn't love Israel. He doesn't love Jewish people. He hates them. He hates them with a passion that burns in his heart, and there's not a fricking thing he can do about it. There's not a thing he can do about it because he hates them.
But every one, every time this has happened, and you do that, you go through squalor, and add the word again: filth, crime, death, destruction, embarrassment. You lose your home, you lose your apartment, and that's where the communists will take us a 100 percent. When I watch Abdul, he's full of shit.
(CHEERING) (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: On that note, I'd like to bring in the new Democratic Senate nominee from Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed, who is my first source tonight.
And thank you, sir, for being here. As we were covering your race very closely here last night.
Before we get into everything else, and there's a lot for us to talk about, what is your response to the President?
EL-SAYED: I'm glad he thinks I'm a lovely gentleman. A lot of people think so.
Look, this is the response that they have. You notice what he talked about. First, look at the background. It says, no tax on tips. The man can't stay on focus. That's like the one thing that he did to offer any economic relief. But instead of that, he's more focused on me, and what I'm going to do, while we're living through an affordability crisis that is generational. People are paying nearly $5 in gas because of a war he started. And half the time, if he's not talking about me, he's talking about the drapes in his ballroom.
So, at the end of the day, I invite the President to focus what I'm saying. I want to get money out of politics, put money in your pocket, and pass Medicare for All. I think a lot of Michiganders want that right now.
And I think Mike Rogers, for his own part, is running away from Donald Trump himself. When you ask Mike Rogers about his position on the war or his position on Trump's tariffs, he is mum.
So look, I'm looking forward to tying Mike Rogers to Donald Trump all day, every day. But I do agree with the part where he says, I'm a lovely gentleman.
COLLINS: I'm not sure he meant that, but we'll leave it at that.
You mentioned what your campaign message was over the last several months. You defeated Haley Stevens for the nomination by what right now I think is 1 percentage point. What does a margin that close tell you about what the next 90 days need to look like for your campaign?
[21:05:00]
EL-SAYED: Look, we as a party have to come together. We had a hard- fought battle. There were some disagreements between folks who might have voted for me or folks who might have voted with the Congresswoman. But I also know that the things that unite us are so much bigger than whatever it is that divides us.
We have an opportunity, right now, to come together to embrace the idea that we can have an America that is affordable because Michiganders right now are suffering. We can actually address the housing crisis. We can address the fact that too many people worry about the fact that they might get sick and don't have the health care that they need and deserve.
Mike Rogers is exactly the opposite of that. Mike Rogers spent his 14 years in Congress taking check after check after check, totaling more than a million dollars, from the pharmaceutical industry. For which, for his vote, he voted 19 times to raise prescription drug prices, helped to architect the legislation that kicked off the opioid epidemic, 600,000 people dead.
So, I want to give you health care. He wants to take it away. I provided NARCAN and a 100 vending machines for free. He helped to kick off a crisis for which that NARCAN had to be the answer. The difference couldn't be more certain, and we have an opportunity to come together to defeat him, defeat Trumpism, hold him accountable, and start actually addressing the challenges that people in Michigan are facing.
COLLINS: You know, it was a really tough primary, obviously. I mean, at one point, you described Haley Stevens as a suit with a large AIPAC bank account. Said, hopefully they could find some ways to teach her how to string together two coherent sentences. That was your quote.
She is now supporting you, now that you have won the nomination. Are you going to invite her to campaign with you out on the trail?
EL-SAYED: Look, we need everybody together to beat Mike Rogers. I'm grateful. We had a great conversation this morning. We talked about a hard-fought primary. I've known the Congresswoman since 2018, since we ran together. And again, whatever our disagreements, we know that the disagreements we have with Mike Rogers and Donald Trump are so much bigger. And in the heat of a primary, you're going to say some things you later on would rather have not said.
And I think we have an opportunity, right now, to focus on what needs to be said, which is that Mike Rogers is an existential threat to the affordability of Michiganders, which is already pretty low. That, taking on Donald Trump and holding him accountable for his abuses of power is a critical goal, and that addressing the fact that people deserve health care and housing and good schools is a key goal that we all share. So, we're coming together, as we need to do, to defeat Mike Rogers and defeat Trumpism.
COLLINS: Well, so given how many votes she got, will she be on the campaign trail with you?
EL-SAYED: Look, I should hope so. That's a choice that she gets to make. But all of us coming together around the slate that we built. And look, we've got some great candidates on that slate. You think about the Lieutenant Governor Garlin Gilchrist, Eli Savit with whom I've worked during my time at the City of Detroit. Obviously, Jocelyn Benson, who won her campaign handily, our Secretary of State and soon- to-be governor. There is a lot on this ticket that Michiganders can have a lot of hope in.
And so, I'm looking forward to campaigning together to win the future where we take on Trumpism and Mike Rogers. And I'm hoping that Congresswoman Stevens, and Senator McMorrow who was with me earlier today, will be out there on the trail, talking about what we need to do to build a future where we get money out of politics, put money in pockets, and pass Medicare for All.
COLLINS: Well, and this seat is so critical for your party to win control of the Senate in Washington. We've heard some Democrats who are worried that you cannot defeat Mike Rogers, come November. How do you plan to address those concerns from people in your own party?
EL-SAYED: We don't need worry. We need work. We took on $70 million of outside spending, and a 11 to 1 funding gap, spending gap, on the airwaves, and we took it on because we did the work. 12,000 people knocking nearly 10,000 doors a day. We started this campaign, 15 months ago, having conversations in rooms of five or 50 people at a time. And so, that's how we're going to beat Mike Rogers, the old- fashioned way, brick by brick.
So, if you're worried right now, get to work. That's the work that we need to do. And I can tell you, on our campaign, we're going to be out there, knocking doors, having those conversations that are what our democracy is about. But worrying and Democrats worrying is not going to solve the problem.
You heard Donald Trump at the top of this show. This is a guy who can't even focus on our affordability, he's more interested in saying my name in an interesting way or calling me a lovely gentleman than he is interested in actually solving our problems.
We have to stand up to that, which means let's go get to work, let's go talk to our fellow Michiganders about who we are and who we want to be and what it takes to take on the most corrupt president in American history, and his lackey who licks every boot he possibly can of that man, Mike Rogers.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, in addition to work, a lot of money is probably going to be spent here. And you were really critical of outside spending in the primary, especially from AIPAC. You have pledged not to take a dime of corporate money in your race. Is that still your position tonight?
EL-SAYED: It is still my position. It is, has been, and always will be.
COLLINS: But will you need help from national Democrats? I mean, will you welcome outside spending as -- if there's going to be a ton of money being spent on Mike Rogers, do you also want a ton of money being spent from national Democrats on your race?
[21:10:00]
EL-SAYED: Look, I wish we lived in a world where there was less outside spending, generally. I wish we lived in a world where corporations could not spend on campaigns. I wish we lived in a world where there were no Super PACs or 501(c)(4)s.
But if unions want to spend to uphold union rights, if the Working Families Party wants to spend to get health care passed, if the National Nurses United or the Medicare for All PAC wants to spend to push back on the power of Big Pharma, I think it's important for us to make sure that we are fighting fire with fire.
But those are different things. If you're a corporation trying to corrupt a politician, just like Mike Rogers has been corrupted by the pharmaceutical industry, yes, I think nurses coming in and saying, Hey, we're going to bring some funds to help a candidate who wants to stand up to that industry, that makes sense.
But I think we'd all rather live in a world where outside spending was not a thing. And look, the minute I hit the U.S. Senate, I am working toward that world. I want to end Citizens United. I want to ban Super PACs and 501(c)(4)s, and all of this dark money infrastructure that has allowed corporations and special interests to corrupt our politics.
COLLINS: Do you know how much you've raised since last night in the last 24 hours or so?
EL-SAYED: Honestly, I haven't checked. It has been a whirlwind. But I know it's been -- it's been a lot.
People are really excited about the opportunity we have in this race. They see the clear contrast between a corrupt politician like Mike Rogers, who offers nothing new. I mean, this guy hasn't had an original idea since 1994. And a candidate who is new on the scene, who wants to get money out of politics, put money in your pocket, pass Medicare for All. That contrast couldn't be more exciting.
And it's partly why we saw 500,000 more Democrats vote in our primary than did Republicans. And look, if we can muster that kind of turnout in this next election, we are going to swamp -- Mike Rogers will go back to a swamp in Florida, and we'll be headed to the U.S. Senate.
COLLINS: You said before, Chuck Schumer doesn't want to see me on the inside of the U.S. Senate.
How did your call with Chuck Schumer go today?
EL-SAYED: Well, at this point, I'm the only Democrat standing to come to the inside of the U.S. Senate, and I think we had a good, meaningful heart-to-heart conversation about what it takes to win in a state like Michigan and what needs to be done to defeat Mike Rogers. So, I'm looking forward to partnering alongside him to win the Senate majority, to win back the -- to keep the State of Michigan, and to win back the gavel for Democrats, so that we can start holding Donald Trump accountable.
I can't wait to sit across RFK Jr. and actually grill him. Dude uses big words he does not understand. And I happen to go to medical school, so I kind of understand them. It is going to be a good time holding him accountable for all of the grift that he has pushed on the American public.
COLLINS: So, that's the -- if you win, that's the Trump official you most want to see testifying before you in the Senate? EL-SAYED: I think it's the Trump official that most people would probably like to see me stand up against. Because look, I'm a guy with a doctorate in medicine and in public health. He's a guy who takes his kids swimming in Schitt's (ph) Creek.
COLLINS: Speaking of senators that you might be serving alongside and questioning Trump officials. I want you to listen to what -- I'm not sure if you've seen this -- what Democratic Senator John Fetterman said about you today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Are you willing to unify with Abdul El- Sayed, for example, who's now the Democratic nominee, the Democratic candidate?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Oh, yes, the -- yes, yes, the tough guy. He called me ugly, and that I should be on a pike.
And I'm like, Chief, I own mirrors.
Well, I can't come together with someone if you are willing to embrace people that loves Hamas or that thinks America deserved 9/11. I think that -- I think that's reasonable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What's your response to Senator Fetterman?
EL-SAYED: In Trump's words, what a lovely gentleman.
COLLINS: I mean, he said that you need to renounce people like the left-wing streamer Hasan Piker, who was campaigning with you, who was out there in Michigan on Monday night, I believe last night as well. Do you have any plans to do that?
EL-SAYED: Look, I'll tell you this: I'm less focused on folks who are campaigning with me, more focused on the folks I'm campaigning to, and I think it's important to stay in touch with the folks who you want to elect you.
I think that's clearly what's gone wrong with Senator Fetterman. It's clear he probably doesn't spend much time in Pennsylvania because he was campaigning with Bernie Sanders, and now wants to renounce Bernie Sanders. I don't know if he still thinks he's a Democrat or not. But look, I'm hoping to get to the U.S. Senate and maybe we can hash that conversation out in-person.
But for right now, I'm focused on winning my state, so that we can win a Democratic majority in the fall.
COLLINS: Can you clarify for us what your position is on funding for Israel if you do become a U.S. Senator? Are you opposed to all funding for Israel? Period. Military funding?
[21:15:00] EL-SAYED: I'm opposed to unconditional military aid for any country. That is Israel, yes, but that's also Egypt, where my family immigrated from. That's Pakistan. That's Saudi Arabia. That's the UAE. And that's not because of a focus on what's happening anywhere, except for a focus what's happening here. We've got communities in my state where the median income is $14,000, and I believe they have a right to their tax dollars.
I also believe in international law and upholding international law, and there are Leahy Laws against dealing arms to countries who are engaged in human rights abuses, and I don't want to fund a foreign military that does genocide, apartheid, or has taken us to a war we don't need to fight. I believe in equal rights to peace, dignity, and self-determination for Jewish Israelis and Palestinians alike.
I believe our responsibility, though, more than anything else, is to use our tax money here in Michigan to provide health care in Michigan, and schools in Michigan, and roads in Michigan, rather than to send it to a foreign government that might use it in the form of bombs and tanks to destroy infrastructure and schools and hospitals there.
COLLINS: Some people might hear that and say, Well, does he support funding defensive systems like the Iron Dome in Israel? Do you?
EL-SAYED: I don't believe that there's really a difference between offensive or defensive weapons. And I also don't believe it's my responsibility to buy defensive weapons for a foreign government, when our kids are defenseless against schools that have been underfunded for a very, very long time. My responsibility, as the next senator from Michigan, is children in Michigan, rather than thinking about what's in the interest of a foreign government.
COLLINS: OK, so that's a yes that you are against funding to things like the Iron Dome?
EL-SAYED: I am against it in large part because I just don't understand why anybody thinks it's the right thing to do to send our tax dollars abroad to fund foreign militaries, when our own kids barely get to go to schools that are functional.
COLLINS: One thing during the campaign that we saw people in your -- in your state talk about. The Attorney General, Dana Nessel, she's Jewish. She said she's not going to go to the Democratic Party's nominating convention that's happening this month in your state. She says she doesn't feel safe there.
You earlier today, in your acceptance speech, when you got the nomination, said that you want to work to protect Jewish Americans to make them feel safe.
How do you plan to do that? What does that look like for you personally?
EL-SAYED: Well, I happen to remember the nominating convention in 2018 when then-Attorney General nominee Dana Nessel asks me -- asked me to read her nomination officially into the books. So, she felt perfectly safe with us there.
I think it's important that all of us feel safe, and Jewish safety to me is a priority, just like the safety of my own daughters. But I do think it's important for us to differentiate between safety and between our different political positions about the interests of a foreign government. And I do think that it's unfortunate when people mix those issues.
I've been very, very clear: Jewish people and Judaism are a light unto the world. I'm deeply grateful for them, and I will always stand with the Jewish people against any antisemitism in any type. Just like I understand the experience of being discriminated against for how I pray, I don't want anybody discriminated against for how they pray.
But that's not the same as AIPAC or Israel, and I think there is a challenge when folks try to use the specter of antisemitism to extend toward protecting a foreign government against criticism, and I think that's the place that the Attorney General and I might disagree. I'd be happy to have that conversation with her.
But up until recently, we've had a great relationship, and I was honored that she invited me to read her nomination back in 2018, where I would think that she probably felt safe.
COLLINS: You said, up until recently. I mean, what is the state of your relationship with her right now?
EL-SAYED: That's kind of unimportant. But I do think all of us need to unite around beating Mike Rogers, around beating Republicans. And our relationship -- you know, likely I haven't had a long conversation with her, but I do think it has a lot to do with the fact that I do talk about the fact that our responsibilities are here rather than backstopping a foreign government, and on that she and I disagree.
But I do hope that she feels safe at our nominating convention. I think it's really important for all people to feel safe, and it's a thing that I am committed to. So, I do hope that she comes. We want all Democrats to be a part of the movement that we need to take on to address Donald Trump.
And if you ask yourself about safety of people who pray differently, you heard what Donald Trump was saying about people like me. What do you think he was trying to highlight? He was trying to highlight aspects of my name and my faith in what is a play toward a kind of -- a kind of Islamophobia that I think none of us really want. So look, I understand what it's like to be made to feel unsafe.
And so, our responsibility is to take him on, so that we have a politics that embraces all people. Whether you're Jewish, or you're Muslim, or you're Christian, or you're Hindu, or you're Sikh, or you don't pray at all, you deserve to feel safe in this country, you deserve to feel safe in the Democratic Party. I'm committed to that. But I do think that we--
COLLINS: Yes.
EL-SAYED: --we need to be very clear about differentiating between that and the interests of a foreign government.
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: Well, and you talked about, when you've run for office before, death threats that you got, Islamophobia. If you do win, you will become the first Muslim senator in U.S. history. What would that mean for you?
EL-SAYED: It's not as much about what it means for me. I'm not running to be the first Muslim anything. I just want to be a really, really great senator for my state.
But it does mean something, I think, about the country. There are people like JD Vance, or Donald Trump, or Mike Rogers, who want to define America as being too small to include some kinds of people. And they point to my name, they point to my faith, they try to insinuate that somehow I'm less American because of those things.
But I've put myself forward, asking my state to give me their stake in democracy, to allow me to serve them as an agent of the government. And there is no greater, I think, call, than to ask your fellow Americans to give you their stake in democracy. And when they do, I think it says a lot about what America is.
They want America to be small. I believe that America is big. It's open-minded. It's big-hearted. It can include any of us, regardless of how we pray, regardless of where our families come from, regardless of who we love or how we identify. That's the America we're building. And I think America, in Michigan in particular, has an opportunity to remind us just how big we are.
COLLINS: In terms of your race. You are not a Democratic Socialist. You're not part of the DSA. You have members of them who endorsed you, who supported you. One thing we were talking about last night, as we were counting the votes in Michigan, was this progressive rise that we've seen in recent weeks and months, and what that looks like for Democrats, come November.
With the positions that you've had on Medicare for All, or abolishing ICE, or a billionaires tax. What do you think that looks like in terms of going forward? We've heard some people, Van Jones, saying there are some positions that you have that you'll have to moderate on.
Is that your plan? Is that your takeaway from what the margin was last night? Or what does that look like over the next 90 days?
EL-SAYED: Look, I think we've built a movement around the idea that we can get money out of politics, put money in pockets, pass Medicare for All.
I think, right now, the question that people are asking is not where do you stand on the left-right spectrum on a series of issues that people talk about on CNN. I think the questions that people are asking is who's going to help me afford my housing, who's going to help me afford my groceries, who's going to make sure I can see a doctor if I get sick. I'm interested in answering those questions. I'm not a socialist, but I am a scientist. And so, I like empirically- driven answers to hard problems. I like to solve them. When it comes to Medicare for All, I didn't just say it one day. I literally wrote a whole book on how we could do it. I went to medical school, did a PhD in public health, led health departments. I have some experience in this matter. And so, I'm interested in solutions to problems.
Now, if trying to moderate so that I can placate folks who think that somehow the world operates on a left-right spectrum is the way to get elected? I just don't see that on the ground here in Michigan. I'm a lot more focused in having conversations based in people's lives, talking about the solutions, and I think that's exactly how we're going to win this election in the fall.
COLLINS: Abdul El-Sayed, thank you for joining us, and really appreciate your first CNN interview since becoming the Democratic nominee for the primary.
EL-SAYED: Kaitlan, thanks for having me. Always fun.
COLLINS: Up next. I mentioned that 90-day countdown. That is until all of the midterm elections. Will his message, will the other message we're hearing from progressive Democrats, lead Democrats to take back power here in Washington? My political sources will join me right after this.
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: You just heard from Michigan's new Democratic Senate nominee, Abdul El-Sayed, who told me that he is getting ready to try to unify Democrats to beat the Republican in that race, Mike Rogers, in November.
Obviously, it was a bruising primary between Abdul El-Sayed and his challenger here in this race, Haley Stevens at the end. So, that is going to be a tough battle, and also it's a crucial test that is going to happen for the progressive movement in a battleground state that helped send President Trump back to the White House two years ago.
My political sources are here now, including:
Democratic strategist, Paul Begala.
And former communications director for the Republican National Committee, Doug Heye.
And Paul, I just wonder what your takeaways are in terms of what you heard from him, given how much this race matters for your party.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, look, he's a brilliant campaigner, he's a brilliant communicator. But he comes out of a bruising primary, as you say, and going into a brutal general election, and his coalition is too narrow. Let's be honest: these leftist candidates, they get wonderful support from young people. It's really impressive. It's something my fellow moderates don't do. They get great support from the well-educated, well-off, woke white left. That's fine.
He got really poor support in the black community, which in Michigan, in most places in Michigan especially, is absolutely crucial. He got poor support in working-class voters. Haley Stevens won them. He needs to put together that black and blue coalition. He has to. And he's going to need help.
I talked to a leading Michigan Democrat this evening, and they were saying that that's going to be the key: is reaching out to the black community, doing more with black and working-class voters.
He's got the folks he's got. But believe me, if he wants to win in November, he has got to broaden that coalition.
COLLINS: Yes, we saw what the numbers looked like in Wayne County, for example, and others.
I mean, Doug, when you look at this. And obviously, we've seen how Mike Rogers has already been preparing to respond to this, presuming that he was going to be the nominee. What does this look like for Republicans?
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, RNC: Well, this is the matchup that Republicans predicted and wanted.
[21:30:00]
Obviously, Mike Rogers, the NRSC feel that they have a better opportunity against El-Sayed than they would have if he had lost, for a lot of the reasons that Paul has mentioned. And part of that is really how the Democratic Party has moved left and used so much inflammatory rhetoric that they feel that they can make this a national campaign against him that would benefit them.
Now, what we just saw in your interview is how he has tried to pivot to remove that as much as possible. And ultimately, we're going to know who wins this campaign when we know what the campaign is about. If the campaign is about El-Sayed, he's going to lose. If it's about Donald Trump, Mike Rogers has a really big problem.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, Paul, you heard what he said there at the end, when I asked him if he plans to moderate any of those positions that -- you know, Van Jones was saying last night, is something he was going to have to do, should he be the nominee.
He basically was arguing that that is not the case in his view.
BEGALA: Yes, I don't know that he's got to walk away from anything he's done except that guy you mentioned, this streamer, Hasan Piker, who's not a Michigander, and who did say that -- I lost friends on 9/11. This is really a vicious thing to say. He said we deserved it. Who said he didn't care about rapes on October 7th. Innocent Israelis raped by Hamas terrorists.
He needs to get rid of that guy, OK? He needs to disavow him. The fact that he's campaigning with him is just making ads for Mike Rogers, OK?
And I know, look, most Democrats -- and I've encouraged my fellow moderates to support Abdul, OK? I have. And I think they should. Because I do think Trump is worse. But my goodness, he's got to make it easy for folks to come on board with him by rejecting the extremists that he's been hanging out with.
COLLINS: Doug, what do you think?
HEYE: I think Paul will remember very well, Reverend Wright, and what a disaster that was for the Obama campaign that nearly cost him the nomination. We could see the very same thing happening right now with El-Sayed if he doesn't follow the very smart advice from Paul.
COLLINS: Doug Heye. Paul Begala. Great to have both of you here tonight. Thank you.
BEGALA: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next here in Washington. The acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, is trying to become the Attorney General. But right now, he is also weighing in on what we heard in this feud between the President and the D.C. U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro, and what President Trump said last night when it came to whether or not she's going to be fired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL: Hypothetically, if the President chose to fire a United States attorney, it turns out he's allowed to do that because he's the President of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I just think she's totally wrong. They did a beautiful job. There were a couple of little things, but that was not a big deal. And everybody saw the vandalism. All you have to do is look at the tape. If you look at the tape. Plus, we have a witness or two witnesses that saw the vandalism. So certainly, there was vandalism. It was actually, in my opinion, it was major vandalism. And I told her I was not happy.
REPORTER: Is she safe? Are you going to keep her in the position?
TRUMP: I haven't made a determination.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: Not a vote of confidence from President Trump, who late last night declined to rule out firing Jeanine Pirro, after he harshly criticized her decision to drop those criminal charges against the former Olympian David Hearn for alleged vandalism of the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, here in Washington. Pirro's office now says that that damage was, quote, "The result of a botched installation and not vandalism."
But today, when the acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, was asked if he agreed with Jeanine Pirro's decision, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: The President has publicly criticized U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro for her decision to drop the Reflecting Pool case. Do you agree with the move to drop the -- to dismiss the charges against David Hearn?
BLANCHE: So, look, I think that U.S. Attorney Pirro, over the past year and a half, year and a half that she's been there, year plus, has led an unprecedented effort to literally make -- over -- just turn the city on its head to be a safe place for all of us to live and eat.
REPORTER: Were you aware that U.S. Attorney Pirro was going to drop the charges against David Hearn. And if so, did you approve of that decision?
BLANCHE: So, I'm not going to talk about internal discussions.
REPORTER: What message does it send though, if President Trump fires a U.S. attorney because she determined there was not sufficient evidence to charge four people with a crime?
BLANCHE: Did he fire her?
REPORTER: What message would it send, I said, if he were to fire her?
BLANCHE: Hypothetically, if the President chose to fire a United States attorney, it turns out he's allowed to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We should note, the legal battle here is not over. Because David Hearn's legal team is now seeking to permanently sink the Reflecting Pool case against him.
His attorney, Mary Dohrmann, is my source right now.
And thank you so much for being here.
I think a big question is, as -- you know, it's unclear what Jeanine Pirro's fate is going to be -- is what do you want, what does Mr. Hearn want, in terms of trying to ensure that the Justice Department doesn't revive this case against him?
MARY DOHRMANN, COUNSEL FOR OLYMPIAN DAVID HEARN, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, PRINCIPAL, WASHINGTON LITIGATION GROUP: Thank you so much for having me, Kaitlan.
What Mr. Hearn wants is finality to this case, the finality that he would have had, had this matter proceeded to trial, and had the true facts been aired in a court of law, and had he been acquitted after that. He wants the finality that is guaranteed by the United States Constitution, by its speedy trial provisions, by its double jeopardy clause.
COLLINS: Is there a world in where he wants compensation for this, for what he's had to deal with?
[21:40:00]
DOHRMANN: Kaitlan, Davy thinks about the American people, and he thinks about the power, the awesome power of the federal government to bring criminal charges against its citizens. That power should only be wielded by people who understand and respect it, and the Constitution they are sworn to uphold.
This administration's track record of vindictive and flawed prosecutions is the exact opposite of what Davy and the Americans deserve from their government. Our justice system is under fire. We are in uncharted territory. But the law does have remedies. The path is not always easy, but there are remedies for egregious wrongs, like what happened to Mr. Hearn, and we are -- we are going to pursue them.
COLLINS: OK. So, that sounds like you're open to that.
In the filing, you write that prosecutors claimed, they first learned about pre-existing damage to the Reflecting Pool, July 17th. You say there's proof the Justice Department is lying.
What is the proof?
DOHRMANN: Kaitlan, as we've laid out in our filings, there was ample evidence in the public realm, ahead of the indictment of Mr. Hearn, that there were problems with the Reflecting Pool. There were court cases about it, about the renovations and how they were botched.
It is not consistent with the principles of federal prosecution to take the ostrich approach and put your head in the sand. There are responsibilities and special duties of prosecutors, and the overwhelming information in the public sphere is something that prosecutors should have known about before they file charges against Mr. Hearn.
COLLINS: Yes, so do you believe it when Jeanine Pirro is arguing that the Interior Department, which Doug Burgum runs, which is overseeing the renovation, that they didn't give her evidence that showed it was a botched installation until after they had charged your client? Do you believe that?
DOHRMANN: Kaitlan, I -- you know, I can't say either way. What I can say, again, is that prosecutors have special duties, and that includes a duty to investigate. And it is surprising that these charges were brought in the first instance. They should never have been brought against Mr. Hearn.
Of course, Mr. Hearn is glad that the government has now filed a motion to dismiss this case. That there is a further accounting that should be had. That motion came from the government after our defense team had filed multiple motions exposing the weaknesses--
COLLINS: Yes.
DOHRMANN: --in the government's case so far.
COLLINS: Mary Dohrmann, we will obviously be watching this very closely. Thank you for joining us tonight.
DOHRMANN: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Also here is my other legal source tonight. Our Legal Analyst and a former federal prosecutor himself, Elliot Williams.
What did you make of Todd Blanche's answer today when a reporter was asking him -- you know, the point wasn't--
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes.
COLLINS: --does the President have the power to fire U.S. attorneys? Obviously, we know that he does. But firing a U.S. attorney who drops the cases--
WILLIAMS: Right.
COLLINS: --because they don't believe that they can prosecute the case.
WILLIAMS: There was one right answer to the question, Kaitlan. It was: I am her boss. We did not have the facts in law to support a prosecution in this case, and we dropped it. That's it.
I mean, he, you know, he -- it's this wink, nod. Yes, the President has the ability to fire a U.S. attorney. Who is he speaking for? Is he speaking for the personnel that work for him, or is he trying to appease the President? I think the answer that he gave there had an audience of one, and certainly not an audience of the 94 U.S. attorneys or anything else.
COLLINS: If you're a U.S. attorney and you heard that answer from Todd Blanche, how would that make you feel?
WILLIAMS: Well, it depends. Am I a U.S. attorney that was put in to carry out the President's directives, as we've seen around the country, has been the case with some of the U.S. attorneys? Or one with some shred of independence from the President? And if I were a U.S. attorney with some shred of independence from the President, that would be quite alarming and quite--
COLLINS: But even if you're the former -- I mean, that is what Jeanine Pirro was.
WILLIAMS: Yes. I mean--
COLLINS: She's handpicked by the President, a huge ally of his who's known him for decades.
WILLIAMS: Yes, it's not comforting to anyone who is taking their job as a prosecutor seriously.
Jeanine Pirro -- and again, to the filing that Hearn's attorney a moment ago had just said. We should not let Jeanine Pirro off the hook here because of some of the allegations that they raised there, that perhaps it is the case that the U.S. Attorney's Office was on notice before they said they were about some of the irregularities in the Reflecting Pool.
So, there's just a lot of things that don't smell right here. And ultimately, we ought to demand more from our prosecutors.
COLLINS: Do you believe David Hearn is entitled to compensation here from the federal government?
WILLIAMS: Right now -- right now, at this minute, I do not -- I'm not certain that he's entitled to a compensation from the government.
[21:45:00]
Now, certainly, this question of dismissing the case with prejudice so that it can't be brought again might be the right remedy here because of the President's own comments that he's sort of flirting with the idea that the whole thing could be revived.
Now, people are -- indictments are dismissed all the time, and defendants don't necessarily receive compensation. Now we'll see where this goes, and if he continues to be harassed, then absolutely he is entitled to it.
COLLINS: Yes.
Elliot Williams, as always, great to have you.
WILLIAMS: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Thank you for joining us tonight.
Up next. There is confusion over whether talks between the United States and Iran are even happening, as the President says a deal to reopen the Strait could come very soon. Yes, we've heard both of those things before. But my excellent Global Affairs Analyst is here, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, Iran says it is facing unprecedented pressure, as the President of Iran is making that stark admission, just hours ago, on state-run media, saying that the country is under, quote, the toughest possible conditions, citing crippling economic sanctions and the war that is under way with the United States right now.
And all of this comes, as Tehran is denying that it is talking directly with the United States about the war and about reopening the Strait of Hormuz. Instead, Iranian officials say that Tehran and Oman are close to finalizing a proposed framework for commercial shipping through the Strait, with a senior Gulf official suggesting that there is a 50-50 chance a deal on that will be reached by this Friday.
Now, any deal would not mean that the Strait would automatically reopen. But President Trump is now offering a different timeline.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The Strait's going to be open very soon, or they're going to get hit very hard, and then the Strait's going to be open. We were going to a tremendous attack, the biggest since World War II, and they called me and said, very politely, Please, can we talk? Can we talk? They didn't want. And I said, Yes, we can talk. Let's get it done.
If they back out again, they're going to get hit really hard, you know. They know that. They understand that. I have no choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is Karim Sadjadpour, who is a CNN Global Affairs Analyst, and expert on Iran.
So first off, what did you make of the Iranian President's comments today?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, IRAN EXPERT: In the United States, Kaitlan, over the last decade, there's been a lot of talk that we need to end forever wars. And that's a popular sentiment in Iran as well. People say, Listen, for 47 years, the official slogan of this government has been, Death to America and Death to Israel, not Long live Iran. So, this is a population which is suffering profoundly. They also want the war to end. And I think what you saw in the words of the President of Iran were a reflection of that.
COLLINS: How do U.S. officials, you think, hear that in terms of what it means for talks, for negotiations, for what they're hoping can happen here?
SADJADPOUR: Well, President Trump seems to conclude that that means that this regime is desperate for a deal. But what we've seen over the last five months is there's a huge disconnect between the suffering of the people of Iran and the conduct of the Iranian regime, which is essentially the Revolutionary Guards.
And for the Revolutionary Guards who are ruling Tehran now, their priority is not the wellbeing of the Iranian people; it's revenge against the United States.
COLLINS: So, when the President says -- I mean, you heard him there; they called so politely, asking to talk. I mean, how do you hear that? Given, it feels like we hear it from the President almost every day, but it doesn't feel like anything is happening.
SADJADPOUR: That is not reflected in what you hear and read from Iranian officials. I think Iranian officials are looking at two signals pretty closely.
Number one are reports in the U.S. media that the U.S. military is low on munitions and interceptors. That emboldens the regime.
The second thing I think they're looking at is American politics, and they see prominent American congressional candidates, like Abdul El- Sayed in Michigan, winning on a platform very critical of Israel, and that also emboldens the Iranian regime.
So, I don't get at all the impression that this is a regime which believes it must compromise quickly.
COLLINS: Well, first off, on the munitions thing. I mean, this has been a big question for the administration. Yesterday, CNN was reporting that -- about the munitions stockpiles, the concerns about it being depleted and being very low, even among U.S. officials. The Pentagon is denying that nearly 80 percent of interceptors are depleted for a key missile defense system.
But Iran, you believe, is watching that closely.
SADJADPOUR: This is a regime whose leadership is quite provincial. They -- I would say, probably the 20 most powerful men in Iran, maybe one or two have set foot in the United States and really understand U.S. politics. So, they're seeing what they want to see.
And what they want to see is that munitions are low in the United States, this war is very unpopular internally. They're constantly looking at polls. They're looking at our political trends. And I think it's a regime which doesn't believe it needs to quickly compromise or reach a modus vivendi with the United States. It wants to keep punching back.
COLLINS: And then what you said about them paying attention to politicians who are succeeding in these races, who I mean, as you heard, Abdul El-Sayed, he was saying he doesn't even think that the Iron Dome should get funding, which obviously is what protects Israel from incoming strikes. I mean, that's something that they are taking into consideration?
SADJADPOUR: Not only are they taking it into consideration. But on Iranian official state television, they post long interviews with people like Tucker Carlson, Tucker Carlson's interviews, in which he's also incredibly critical of Israel. So, they believe this is a taboo which has been broken in American domestic politics, critical of Israel -- criticism of Israel, opposition to AIPAC, and that's a trend which they want to continue to try to amplify.
COLLINS: It's fascinating.
Karim Sadjadpour, as always, it's great to have you here.
SADJADPOUR: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thanks for joining us.
Up next. It is time for Source Code. We give you a number at the center of a story in the news. Tonight's Source Code is 700. Can you figure out what the story is? We'll be right back with the answer.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Our Source Code tonight is 700, as in just 700 vertical feet, less than a mile of lateral distance between a passenger plane and the military helicopter that was carrying President Trump.
According to The New York Times, the FAA and NTSB are now investigating this moment here, and how close the aircraft gone on Tuesday afternoon.
According to air traffic control audio, Marine One pilots at the White House told the controllers at Reagan National Airport here in Washington, they were preparing to take off at least three times. The controller didn't appear to acknowledge that transmission, and traffic at the airport continued as usual.
Now, planes are typically halted when the President takes off from the White House.
[22:00:00]
And the White House responded to this and this investigation by saying that President Trump was never in danger.
If you missed any of this show tonight, it is available on demand to subscribers on our CNN app. You can also check it out wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter @kaitlancollins, where I'm always posting all of my latest reporting throughout the day.
Thank you so much for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
