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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Backs Mike Johnson But Not John Thune; Buttigieg, El- Sayed At Unity Rally After Bruising MI Primary; Sources: Trump's Top General Looking For Iran War Off-Ramp. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 07, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: And just very quickly, is it clear what happens next?
DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: No. The pool is drained. It's being inspected. But there's big holes and tears all over it. And I do get the sense that they don't really know how to fix it. So, I don't see a solution coming anytime soon.
BERMAN: David Fahrenthold, it was a terrific story. It was the first story my father told me about this morning when I talked to him. Quite an accomplishment. Thank you.
FAHRENTHOLD: Thank you.
BERMAN: That is all for us this weekend. I'm John Berman. Have a terrific weekend. See you Monday morning for "CNN NEWS CENTRAL."
The news continues now. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" begins right now
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. The President and his party, 87 days out from the midterm elections, and he has been clear-eyed about who he believes Republicans should blame if their voters don't turn out. Quote, They're not angry at me.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
And as we come on the air tonight, right now, the Senate is holding a rare late-night session. We don't often see senators on the floor past 09:00 p.m., certainly not on a Friday night.
But we had been expecting a possible vote to confirm Todd Blanche as the next Attorney General after he secured that final vote this morning from Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana. However, late word from the Majority Leader John Thune is saying that that vote may not happen tonight after all.
We're going to keep a close eye on this, and we'll bring you any updates as we get them during the hour.
But this is all coming, as President Trump himself has left Washington and is settling in for a weekend at his New Jersey club. And as he's doing so, he's not just distancing himself from Washington, but also apparently from the Republicans there who might be anxious about this year's upcoming midterm elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The question is, will they vote? Because a lot of them are very angry at Republicans, to be honest with you. They're angry at Republicans--
JAKE SHERMAN, FOUNDER, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: Why is that?
TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, they're angry at Republicans. But they're not angry at me.
SHERMAN: That's an interesting -- why though?
TRUMP: They're not angry at me, but they are angry at Republicans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Well, of course, he is the undisputed leader and face of the Republican Party. Those comments, though, come as Republicans have been trailing Democrats on the generic congressional ballot by eight points among registered voters. That's according to a CNN poll that was done just late last month.
But in President Trump's telling, if Democrats are scoring big victories this November, it's everybody's fault, but not his.
On Capitol Hill, where the margins are so tight that the President needs every vote he can get, this is how he was talking about some of those Republicans whose support he certainly needs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm against Murkowski. I think she's -- I do more for Alaska than any president in history. No president's done for Alaska what I've done. She's not good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I should note, he actually said those comments in that interview with Punchbowl News before Lisa Murkowski came out and said she was not going to be voting for Todd Blanche as his next Attorney General.
This all comes as control of Congress, as we know, is on the line this fall. And the President was also asked in that same interview with Punchbowl News about whether or not he supports the Senate Majority Leader and the Speaker of the House, both of whom are Republicans, but both of whom got two very different answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERMAN: Do you want Thune to serve another term as leader? Do you think -- would you support him?
TRUMP: Well, I don't want to get into that this early, but--
SHERMAN: Why?
TRUMP: I'll tell you--
SHERMAN: A lot of people are thinking about it.
TRUMP: Look -- look--
SHERMAN: This is a big issue.
TRUMP: I get along with him. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have the vote.
SHERMAN: But do you actually get along with him?
TRUMP: I do.
SHERMAN: But you clearly dis -- I mean, you have big disagreements with him.
TRUMP: I do. I do have disagreements.
SHERMAN: Mike Johnson will probably remain Speaker if he -- if he keeps the majority.
TRUMP: He should.
SHERMAN: If he keeps the majority. So if he loses the majority--
TRUMP: Mike Johnson is working with a majority of two, three. We've had it one. We've had it like if we're one heart attack away from losing the House
SHERMAN: And in Congress, that ain't hard.
TRUMP: And you know what? We get a lot of things passed.
SHERMAN: Yes.
TRUMP: He's great. We work together great. He's a fantastic person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, when it comes to actually helping either of those Republican leaders hold on to their majorities, President Trump argued that he has already done his part.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have a lot, you know, I have a busy schedule.
I said to somebody, Wait a minute. You don't understand. I won. I'm not campaigning. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, Trump was out west for a brief campaign swing earlier this week. Though at times, when he is before a crowd, as he was there in Las Vegas, or at times holding court in the Oval Office, his focus isn't always exactly where his party hopes it would be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So we're building a ballroom that everybody -- it's going to be the most beautiful.
We're replacing all of the grass that hasn't been replaced in the fields, all the beautiful fields with the grasses. You know, grass is like humans; it has a life. This grass hasn't been changed in a 100 years. We're doing all the fields.
[21:05:00]
Those are beautiful columns. But I'm allowed to do it. Every once in a while, I'll come in here and grab a painting and put it at the Oval Office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, this comes, as the President's plans to leave his mark literally on Washington might have hit a snag tonight. That's because an appeals court says that that construction that's underway -- right now, there are cranes swinging over the White House every day -- an appeals court says that construction is unlawful and that if the President wants to finish the ballroom, he actually needs to get permission from Congress first.
That has prompted a swift response from the President, who said, quote, "We will be immediately appealing to the United States Supreme Court."
Now we've been hearing things like this from House and Senate Republicans when it comes to this ballroom and whether or not the President needs it, for months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BRIAN FITZPATRICK (R-PA): My constituents have made clear they don't want money for a ballroom.
REP. KEVIN KILEY (I-CA): Throwing in the ballroom funding certainly doesn't help matters.
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): We're talking about building a ballroom when we're trying to get the economy squared away. Timing is bad.
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): He cares about it, and it's fine. But people don't, and people in North Dakota don't. They care about the price of gas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight as we start a busy news hour.
CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, and former assistant U.S. Attorney, Elie Honig.
As well as a pair of my fellow White House correspondents. Bloomberg's Jeff Mason. And Semafor's Shelby Talcott.
It's great to have all three of you here tonight.
Elie. Just from a legal perspective. We're getting this ruling. The President is obviously really unhappy about it. He's not only posted about it once, but twice as the pool, which I was with, was flying with him, from Washington to New Jersey today. Where does this ruling leave us for the next two weeks?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY: With a half-built hole in the White House property. I mean, that's the practical--
COLLINS: Not even half-built. I think we're like a third of the way there maybe.
HONIG: A third of a built -- a mess of a construction site.
In the legal sense, this is really all about separation of powers. And what the court said today is, this needs to come from Congress.
And the end run that the Trump administration tried here, they tried to cite a couple laws that don't really fit that allows you to make slight alterations to the White House. And this court said, That's not good enough.
But then the real end run is Trump said, Well, but some of the funding for this is private, right? I've fundraised from private donors, and therefore it doesn't fall under these rules. And the court today basically said, No, you can't end run Congress by going out and raising funds on your own. Congress gets to decide whether money gets spent, how much it gets spent.
And when Congress spends money, there's important conditions attached that don't apply to private money. For example, Congress has rules that say you have to give preference to veterans. Congress has rules in their funding that says you have to give preference to American- made materials. And so, this private funding actually undermines Trump's legal position. Doesn't help it.
COLLINS: That's interesting because, he did say it was private donations. But then, they did take some money from the Secret Service budget that they transferred earlier this summer.
And Jeff Mason. In what the President is saying about this. What stood out to me was that when they announced that they were tearing down part of the East Wing to build this, initially, the President was saying, We need a ballroom. Every President has needed one. We shouldn't have to host state dinners in tents that are put up on the South Lawn of the White House.
Now he's saying it's a national security threat at the highest level and a national disgrace, and making the argument from that perspective that that's why the ballroom is needed.
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG: Yes, a lot of things have shifted in his argument for the ballroom. I might add that that is a standard thing for a lot of the things that he does. I mean, his arguments for the Iran war, which we're not talking about, have changed as well over time. So, the ballroom is just kind of a metaphor, in many ways, for how he deals with policy, how he deals with action, how he deals with the things that he wants in Washington.
And the legal challenges are real. But the other thing that's, I mean, completely real is he went ahead and got rid of the East Wing. He tore it down. So, he may feel some confidence that even as he's been challenged and it's frustrating to him that he has been challenged, that at some point the Supreme Court, if that's where it's going and it looks like it is, is going to say, You're allowed to build something.
But the political reality is certainly clear in those clips that you played that it hasn't been a winner for him with his party, and certainly not with Democrats. And it's an example, again, it's a metaphor, for the things that he cares about that don't necessarily line up with what the rest of the country or his party cares about.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's actually a really -- a really good point in terms of, this is something he brings up all the time. It's not something that other people or detractors are just bringing up.
And Shelby, when you look at the polling on this, only 17 percent say they're happy or satisfied with the President's construction projects. Even if the White House feels bullish about where this ends up in court for them, I think there is a real question of whether or not it's something that voters want the President spending so much time and effort and energy on.
[21:10:00]
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Yes, it is a serious question, and that's something that we're hearing from Republican lawmakers, right? You played that clip earlier, which is: Is this what voters want the party in power to be focusing on? And by and large, the answer is no. The voters want President Trump to be focused on things like gas prices and cost of living and kitchen table issues.
But at the same time, the D.C. focus that the President has this term has been really fascinating because, as he has continued on in this second term, he has become more and more focused on sort of beautifying D.C. and making these changes that are really legacy changes, right, that are going to exist long, long after he leaves office in two years.
COLLINS: Yes. And, I mean, Jeff, we talk about polls. The President doesn't believe the ones that are negative most times.
The ultimate poll is happening though in November in the form of the midterm elections when we hear from voters themselves.
And the President, in this interview that I thought was really well- done by Jake Sherman, was asked about the possibility of Democrats winning control potentially in November, and he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERMAN: Johnson says -- has said in the past, If Republicans lose the House, it'll be the end of the Trump presidency. In some -- in some--
TRUMP: Well--
SHERMAN: To some degree.
TRUMP: Yes, to some degree. Still have tremendous -- I have great blocking power, so they won't be able to do anything. In other words, they won't be able to--
SHERMAN: You can veto, right?
TRUMP: No, no, I have great block -- I'm a great blocker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, Jeff, is there anyone that you've talked to at the White House that thinks -- I mean, obviously, Speaker Johnson was saying that for a reason. He's trying to rally Republican voters for why Democrats shouldn't take back the majority.
MASON: For sure, I mean, and that's the message that he wants to get across, as you say, Kaitlan, to rally people and to get people to the polls, at a time when sentiment among Republicans and excitement among Republicans is nowhere near the sort of motivation that Democrats are having to get out and try to have an impact, to counter what President Trump has done.
The President, I mean, I have been told by a source that the President has largely written off the midterms, and I think you get that sense from the interview that he did with Punchbowl, in terms of shifting blame and saying that blame belongs with other Republicans and not with him, despite the fact that he's the leader of the policy -- of the party, and that his policies are absolutely dominating the conversation about politics in this country and, for that matter, around the world.
So, there's a -- there's almost a sense of either denial or something else that the President is very good at, which is just shifting topics and shifting blame. Either way, the political reality is, at least right now, unless a lot changes between now and November, his party faces an uphill battle at maintaining power in the House and possibly even the Senate.
COLLINS: Elie, when you hear the President say, Well, I'm a great blocker. I have great blocking power, so they won't actually be able to do anything. In other words, they won't be able to beat us.
I mean, one thing Maggie Haberman and I have talked about on this show and our reporting is how the White House is viewing the midterms differently and less in this way of -- I mean, we could be in a scenario where they're not complying with subpoenas or they're just stonewalling in any kind of investigations should Democrats take back power?
HONIG: Right. So first of all, I have no idea what he means when he says, I'm a great blocker. I mean, the first thing I thought of was the veto power. But what's going to get through both houses if one house -- if the House of Representatives flips?
But understand, if the House of Representatives flip, that is going to change everything for Donald Trump because, then Democrats will have the power to hold hearings, like the one we saw this week with Dr. Fauci, like prior hearings we've seen with Jack Smith. All of those hearings, instead of being focused on people who Democrats support, will be focused on the administration and people who Donald Trump and Republicans support.
And along with the hearing power comes the subpoena power, and it's really hard to completely defeat a subpoena. We're going to see battles in court if it comes out that way. It's going to feel like the last two years of Trump's first term.
But if the House flips, it really does change everything about the investigative agenda and about who can hold who to account in this administration.
COLLINS: Yes.
Shelby, I wonder what you're hearing in terms of, as we're looking at that. We're seeing the President today be very frustrated still with Jeanine Pirro.
David Hearn, the Olympian who was indicted for allegedly vandalizing the Reflecting Pool until the DOJ dropped the case because they said actually it was a bad installation.
The President though was saying today that Jeanine Pirro should revisit her hastily-made decision to drop that case.
Are you hearing that that is actually something that they are considering potentially?
[21:15:00]
TALCOTT: We haven't heard anything about whether Jeanine Pirro is going to open it up or not, but I have heard that she is very clearly still on the chopping block, right? And the President's not making that a secret. He's still really frustrated with her.
What I thought was really interesting, though, is over the past few days, this past week, when she had that Oval Office meeting with the President, she came to him with a whole basket full of evidence backing herself up. And so, to me, that indicates that there is a level of reluctance on Jeanine Pirro's part.
Now, one thing that I'm told that she could do that some Trump administration officials have said is she could start shifting things over and focusing on Dr. Fauci, to try to sort of appease the President in that manner. And so, that's something that I'm kind of looking out for in terms of is there going to be a maneuver there, on Jeanine Pirro's part, to try to find a way to satisfy the President.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, obviously that box did not seem to satisfy the President.
Shelby Talcott. Jeff Mason. Elie Honig. Great to have all of you here tonight. Thanks so much for joining us.
Up next. Obviously, we've been following what's happening in the Democratic Party as well. Abdul El-Sayed just headlined a unity rally in Detroit tonight. There was a potential 2028 presidential candidate there, and also a question looming on that stage about how the party comes together before the midterms.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: Now look, it's no secret that we all may not have voted the same way on Tuesday. That's OK. That's how it works. But however you voted in Tuesday's primaries, there is a reason you went out and voted in the first place.
ABDUL EL-SAYED, (D) MICHIGAN SENATE NOMINEE: My name is Abdul El- Sayed.
(CHEERING)
EL-SAYED: And I am so proud to be your Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate.
(CHEERING)
EL-SAYED: And also, in the spirit of unity, in the spirit of the work, in the spirit of coming together. I want to thank both of my colleagues who ran, Haley Stevens and Mallory McMorrow, for an incredible race.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That is the newly-minted Democratic Senate nominee from Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed, who is rallying tonight with fellow Democrats in what they want to be a show of unity and a race to unify a fractured coalition, after a bruising primary battle. Those in attendance included, as you heard from potential 2028 presidential candidate, Pete Buttigieg.
And this comes, as El-Sayed's Republican opponent, that's Mike Rogers, who the President is backing, is looking to capitalize on the Democratic divide, by making a direct appeal to, what he believes might be, wary Democratic voters in this campaign video that was shared with CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ROGERS, (R) MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: If you're among the majority of Democratic voters that woke up on Wednesday, feeling, well, hopeless because the person who won does not represent your values. Well, just know, there is still hope.
And to the vast majority of people across Michigan who do not want to throw their support behind a campaign filled with anger, divisiveness, calls for violence, and the views that are out of touch with your values. Well, you have a home with us. The fight is far greater than just left versus right. The fight is for the very soul of our nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And joining me tonight on this is someone who has endorsed El-Sayed and has been at his side on the campaign trail, Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minnesota.
And thank you, Congresswoman, for being here.
You heard Mike Rogers' message there. He is trying to reach out to Democrats, moderate Democrats who maybe don't like Abdul El-Sayed. Do you think that a message like that is going to convince them to vote for the Republican in this race?
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Thank you so much, Kaitlan, for having me.
It is my belief, having been in Michigan, that Democrats ultimately believed that they were going to be united, after the primary fight was over. And what you were seeing at that rally, with that unification, is Democrats saying, This is the moment where we unite, where we have a unified message, where we collectively go out and convince the rest of Michigan to join us in electing Abdul as a senator.
Because in this moment, we need to have a Senate that is a check and a balance to the administration. A Senate that is going to fight for working people. A Senate that is going to lead with courage and integrity. And that Senate is only possible with people like Abdul El- Sayed there.
COLLINS: What is the right way to unify the Democratic coalition, not just in Michigan, but everywhere, but in Michigan, in terms of, of what we saw in this primary battle. Is it because -- do you think Abdul El-Sayed needs to moderate some of his positions that maybe turns off moderates? Do you think he needs to hold firm to what he ran on and that made him the nominee? What's your view on what needs to happen in the next 87 days? [21:25:00]
OMAR: Yes, I mean, ultimately, I believe that people want real change, and regardless of how tough our primaries get as Democrats, we turn around the day after the primary election, and we fight for our ticket to make sure that we are representing the values of what it means to be a Democrat, what it means to have strong labor unions, what it means to fight for the working-class, what it means to make sure families have the ability to put food on the table, and what it means to keep attention to the district, the state, and the country that you represent.
COLLINS: Do you think that Democratic leaders know what Democratic voters want right now?
OMAR: Well, obviously, we have to listen to the voters. We are seeing many people being more vocal, more excited, more hopeful, about what is possible, not just within the Democratic Party, but across the country.
And Democratic leaders, whether they are current incumbents, like myself, or they are people that are running for election at the moment, are keeping their ears on the ground, trying to listen, more than they talk, and are trying to make sure that we are governing on behalf of the people that we seek to represent.
COLLINS: Yes, I just ask because obviously Chuck Schumer had effectively endorsed Haley Stevens in this race. People like Bernie Sanders were campaigning with Abdul.
And something else that Bernie Sanders said this week, as we're watching this moment in your party, stood out to me. I want you to listen to what he told "Pod Save America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): No serious person than I know, who is running for office believes in, quote-unquote, "Defunding the police."
Do we need police reform? Do we need to get rid of racism within police departments? Absolutely. Are there jobs that other people can be doing in terms of mental health, drug addiction, that now falls on a cop's shoulders? Yes, I think we should look at that. But nobody I know, you know, believes in defunding the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you think that's true? Because there are some candidates that are running right now that have previously called for defunding the police.
OMAR: I mean, in the Democratic Party and in Congress, we oftentimes talk about people voting their district. Obviously, there are some parts of the United States, back in 2020, that had some reckoning to do, in regards to what it looked like to have a public safety that centered actually safer communities. For us in Minneapolis, with the murder of George Floyd, we had to have a deeper conversation about what really it looked like for us to address public safety here. We had a police department that was essentially problematic. And when that conversation becomes nationalized, then you sort of get the kind of messaging that gets sort of lost in the void. Minneapolis has come a long way. We still have a long way to go.
And I think that is sort of what Bernie was speaking to. People essentially do want safer communities. People want the issues that exist with certain police departments, like the Minneapolis Police Department, to be addressed, and people want to have trust in those that seek to serve and protect them.
COLLINS: But do you think it's accurate that no -- I mean, as he put it, he said: No serious person than I know, who is running for office believes in, quote-unquote, "Defunding the police."
Do you think that's true?
OMAR: I mean, when he says that, I think he's talking about someone putting forth a piece of legislation. And to that regard, I would say that he is right. I haven't seen any pieces of legislation or ordinances come through in the United States since 2020.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, in terms of that, one person who had faced questions on that is Francesca Hong in Wisconsin.
Can I ask you on another part of this, Congresswoman? And I hope you can still hear me. One powerful voice that has been a big topic of conversation is the left-wing streamer Hasan Piker. He's someone that you've campaigned alongside with. He put out a video, backing your re- election today.
There are moderate Democrats who have criticized Abdul El-Sayed for appearing on the campaign trail with him. What's your view of that criticism?
OMAR: I mean, people, you know, in a free country, people can have opinions about people who campaign with candidates. I certainly had my own criticisms of folks who campaigned, folks that were on the top of the ticket for us in 2024. Ultimately, we all put our heads down, try to get to voters, have the conversations that are necessary. Because we're not able to have any kind of the changes that we want until we win.
[21:30:00]
And so, everybody's trying to do the best that they can to try to get their message out and campaign with whoever that they think can help them do that. Sometimes, not everybody is going to agree the kind of messenger that you use, but it's ultimately the decisions that campaigns have to make. I know those decisions are not easy every single time, but they are decisions that are necessary in order for you to figure out what your coalition looks like.
COLLINS: Do you view Hasan Piker as a good campaign surrogate for Democrats?
OMAR: Well, I don't know about all Democrats. But certainly, for those of us who represent younger demographics, he does have a certain reach. When I was on his podcast, when he was in my district, doing Metro Surge, and he will be, I think, back here in in Minnesota.
People who oftentimes are not tuned in, people who have lost hope in the electoral process, are starting to pay attention and are tuning in. And we see a lot more volunteers coming out to our campaign headquarters because they hear Hasan say it's important for you to get involved. And even though they might have not voted in a couple of election cycles, they are paying attention now. And in a primary, when people just know about November elections, it is important to have as many messengers as possible.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, thank you for joining us tonight.
OMAR: Thank you for having me.
COLLINS: Up next. We have new reporting on what's going on inside the Trump administration on the war with Iran, as the Joint Chiefs Chairman is reportedly telling top Trump advisers, the U.S. actually needs to find an off-ramp. Why he thinks that the war has reached a crossroads based on what our sources are saying tonight.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Breaking tonight, as sources say President Trump's top general Dan Caine, who is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has privately made clear to top Trump advisers that he believes the United States needs to find an off-ramp from the Iran war.
Over the last few weeks, our sources say that General Caine has met key cabinet officials, including the CIA director, the Secretary of State, and the Vice President, warning that escalating this conflict could backfire, and that the President's aerial campaign won't be enough to make Iran capitulate.
Something General Caine brought up during a hearing last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. DAN CAINE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I think academically, as you look across the totality of history, air power's got limits, and we always have to be mindful of those.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight is Beth Sanner, who is the former Deputy Director of National Intelligence.
And Beth, when you hear this reporting about what General Caine is reportedly saying to Trump advisers about an off-ramp, what does that sound like to you? BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I think it's an accurate portrayal of the conundrum that they're in. And I think that the President actually probably feels that way some of the time too, but then he's ready to escalate.
And I think what General Caine is really clearly articulating in this reporting is that there is no military solution alone to this problem. And therefore, given all the expenditures of munitions, et cetera, we need to find a way out. But finding that way-out is the big challenge.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean obviously they've been asking for creative solutions to punish Iran, as we reported earlier.
SANNER: Right.
COLLINS: But our colleagues also say that Caine thinks this war has reached a crossroads.
You believe that's another way to state, that the United States is at a dead end, basically.
SANNER: Yes, I mean because, you can't just keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, right? That's the definition of insanity, as they say.
So, I think that this is what the military folks are saying right now. And so, crossroads, yes, we have a crossroads in terms of a decision to make. But I think that it means that the military approach to this war has reached the point of, no further progress can be made. And so I call that, you know, it's a dead end for this military approach. So, we have to figure out how do we switch gears, and I think the primary problem there is that Iran is playing hardball, and they seem to have a higher risk tolerance than we do.
COLLINS: Well, and obviously, they got bombed for two weeks straight.
In terms of munitions here. The pattern that we've seen play out is outlets report that munitions are low and that people are worried about it. The Pentagon, sometimes Hegseth himself, denies that. But then the President himself says, People who leak that information are going to be prosecuted, which would seem to say that it's true.
When you hear that, and Iran hears that, what do you think their takeaway is?
SANNER: I think Iran has a pretty good sense of what our munitions, especially our air defense stockpile is, based on their responses to their incoming, and they also have help from Russia and China, who are doing overhead imagery and making their own calculations. That's their job, as our adversaries, that's what their military does.
So, even though I understand totally why the President is upset by these leaks because it makes us look weak, I think our adversaries know a lot more than what the U.S. press knows about the status of our stockpile. [21:40:00]
But I think also, he did say publicly that some of our supplies are tight, right? He used that word. But we have plenty of munitions in order to conduct this war. And I think that both of those things are true. We have plenty of glide bombs and dumb bombs, and even bombs that are more high end, but you have to get close. Our standoff munitions, the ones that you use from far away, from a safer distance, those are the ones that are running very short.
And then our air defenses. And he talks about, we are running out of exquisite things. Well, we have no alternative on air defenses to the exquisite air defenses. There is only one set of air defenses, and we're running extremely low on that. Our Gulf allies are running low on that. And Ukraine seems to be plumb out.
And so, when I look ahead at this, Kaitlan--
COLLINS: Yes.
SANNER: --I'm very worried.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, you can see why the Gulf allies and Ukraine are as well.
Beth Sanner, it's always great to have your expertise. Thank you for joining us.
SANNER: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next. My political sources were also here.
Bill de Blasio is the former Mayor of New York City.
Charlie Dent is a former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania.
And Charlie Dent, when you look at this. And obviously, we talk about the munitions, the military game plan. It's also the politics of this. And we're seeing polls that say 72 percent of Americans don't approve of Trump's handling of this war. That was at 67 percent in March. It's growing. I mean, how much do you think that fuels the President's decision-making here?
CHARLIE DENT, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE (R-PA): I think it's very much front of mind for the President and his administration.
The way they entered this war, they did it without proper due diligence. They didn't make a case to the American public. They didn't make a case to Congress in seeking an authorization. They didn't speak to allies. They kind of went in on their own, and they didn't have much public support going into the war. So, that was their first political problem.
Of course, the Strait of Hormuz closure also meant higher oil prices. So, American voters can draw a straight line from the Iran war to higher prices at the pump. So, there's another political problem, as your previous guest just stated, there are very real -- there are real limits to what you can do with air power.
The President made a number of contradictory statements when he announced the campaign. He said there would be a regime change, we're going to secure the nuclear stockpile in Iran, and we're not going to put boots on the ground. Well, you can't do one and two without number three.
So, this has been a disaster from the get-go in terms of at least the politics. So, it's all this, but I suspect that the gasoline prices are the one that are really affecting the political calculations of Republicans right now.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, Bill. Also, when it comes to Democrats, our poll shows that the majority of Americans, 52 percent think Democrats are not spending enough time on cost of living issues either.
And so, yes, we hear obviously so much criticism of the President and his party. How does that change your party's calculus?
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Well, I think it's fair to say, Democrats have been clear about fighting against the war in Iran, and that is about cost of living now. So, I do want to -- I do want to put that forward. The Democratic Party has been united from the beginning, constantly bringing these votes in Congress to try and stop the war. And nothing is shooting up the price of gasoline and the price of living more than this war, and I think the American people can see that connection.
But I agree that from this point on, the Democratic Party needs to talk obsessively about affordability. That has been working in multiple campaigns around the country. And it is certainly not enough to just be anti-Trump.
The Democratic Party actually has a historic opportunity to get back connected to working people again, to talk about how we raise wages, how we lower health care costs, how we do the things Republicans literally cannot put on the agenda.
And this is what's most amazing to me, Kaitlan. President Trump can't even get these words out of his mouth anymore. He constantly goes to, the war, the ballroom, something, but not actually talking about the cost of living.
COLLINS: Charlie, we were with the President today. He was doing an event on critical minerals at the State Department, these funds that they're dispersing to different universities when it comes to, obviously the need for that.
And at one point, there were a lot of speakers at the table, including several Cabinet secretaries. And the President said, OK, but let's make this fast. You know, don't spend too long as we go around the table for each of you to speak. He said, I've got a war to prosecute, and then he said, Well, that's at least my excuse for why I need to leave early.
Hearing him make that comment, as we're several months into this war, and looking at the polling was pretty stark to me, actually. Even though it's a comment that he's made repeatedly.
DENT: Well, it's clear that he was actually telling the truth. Here he was, I think, trying to actually focus on some aspect of domestic policy, the economy, and then to admit that, Well, got to go now, I've got to deal with the war.
[21:45:00]
And so, the war -- again, Americans are focused on the economy, pocketbook issues, cost of everything, as we've discussed many times. And the war is an impediment to his ability to deal with that issue and, in fact, arguably, it's made the -- it's made the situation worse because of the increased cost of fuel and fertilizers and other things. So, it's really, I think, just, it's an appropriate metaphor for where we are. I mean, the war is consuming much of his time beyond the ballroom.
COLLINS: Yes.
Mr. Mayor, how do you see that?
DE BLASIO: I think he's fallen, he can't get up. I think the war has now overtaken him. And what's amazing is there's no path out, there's no public discussion of a way out. All we see is the global economy getting worse, the price of gasoline getting worse, and our adversaries coming up with new and clever ways to shut off shipping lanes.
This president doesn't have a vision. It reminds me of LBJ and Richard Nixon not having a vision to get out of Vietnam. So, the public says, This is going to go on a long time, and we're going to be the ones that lose.
COLLINS: Yes, well, they had a vision; it just didn't go the way they expected it to go.
Bill de Blasio. Charlie Dent. It's great to have both of you here tonight to weigh in on that. Thank you so much.
DENT: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. From the major win for progressive Democrats that happened this week, to the dressing down that Jeanine Pirro got at the White House, we're going to take you behind the scenes of a big week in Washington.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: This week, we spoke with two Democratic progressive candidates who hope to make a major statement this November. An Olympian who was accused of vandalizing the Reflecting Pool until Trump's own U.S. Attorney said it was actually a botched renovation. And we also sat down with a new World Cup champion.
Here's our look behind the scenes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: Jeanine Pirro made a mistake. There was vandalism. And frankly, I think she choked.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, August 3.
TRUMP: I was disappointed with Jeanine Pirro. Really disappointed with Jeanine Pirro. She folded like an umbrella.
COLLINS: As someone who has covered Jeanine Pirro for as long as you have, she is someone who President handpicked to take this job.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, to hear him say today that she choked and folded like an umbrella was maybe shocking, but also surprising.
STELTER: Well, I think even by his standards
Pirro and Trump have been friends for 35 years.
So, this relationship is so tight, and that's what makes the schism so dramatic today.
COLLINS: Thank you, both.
HONIG: This one. Thanks.
COLLINS: You said Americans should cancel Thanksgiving.
Do you still believe that Thanksgiving should be canceled?
FRANCESCA HONG, DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA: I'm a chef, and one of the first meals that I made, that was for the community, when I was 16, was a Thanksgiving meal.
Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our communities.
I wanted to make sure that people understood that there are multiple views. But views can evolve.
COLLINS: Have you been able to wrap your head around the fact that you scored the game-winning goal in the World Cup?
FERRAN TORRES, SPAIN'S WORLD CUP FINAL GOALSCORER: When I finished the game, I didn't remember how I scored, and I needed to see it again.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, August 4.
COLLINS: It's this drained Reflecting Pool behind me that is at the center of so much drama inside the Trump administration right now.
Jeanine Pirro brought boxes of evidence to back up her claims at the White House that says she shows it was shoddy workmanship during the renovation that caused the damage, not vandalism.
Hello.
One Senate primary in particular that has the entire country watching. That's in Michigan, where polls have closed. The votes are being counted.
Abdul El-Sayed, if he does win tonight, and if he does pull this off, I mean, the progressive momentum is real.
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
COLLINS: That's what this is going to demonstrate.
RAJU: But still--
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: And they're speaking to anger. They're speaking to real anger.
RAJU: No question about that. And he's tapped into the anger effectively in the primary. But then, what about the general election?
FINNEY: Right.
RAJU: Will he shift to the middle?
ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, August 5.
TRUMP: Like you know, you had a big election last night.
Abdul El-Sayed.
The polls got it really wrong because it was supposed to be a blow- away, and he almost lost.
When I watch Abdul, he's full of shit.
COLLINS: What is your response to the President?
EL-SAYED: First, look at the background. It says, no tax on tips. The man can't stay on focus. That's like the one thing that he did to offer any economic relief. But instead of that, he's more focused on me.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, August 6.
TRUMP: On birthright citizenship. Had a very unfortunate decision in the Supreme Court concerning birthright. It was close. So we're making adjustments.
COLLINS: Former Olympian accused of vandalizing the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool before the Justice Department abruptly dropped that case against him is joining me tonight.
Can you just tell us how you're feeling?
DAVID HEARN, EX-OLYMPIAN PREVIOUSLY CHARGED IN REFLECTING POOL CASE: Quite a bit relieved, now that the case has actually been dismissed officially. But I'm still pretty concerned about innocent people being accused by the government of things they didn't do.
COLLINS: It's so great to have you, seriously, and I really do appreciate you choosing to come on here.
HEARN: Yes.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Friday, August 7.
COLLINS: Perfect timing. They just called for us to gather, with out- of-town pool, all ready to go, to New York, with the President.
[21:55:00]
Forgive my paparazzi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy weekend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See you.
COLLINS: Bye, guys.
TRUMP: I want to thank our great Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, for hosting us.
It's beautiful building by -- you know, I look at the -- the President's allowed to remove things from any building.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: And I'm liking the chandeliers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you take a few questions?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Few questions? Take a few questions from us? What's going on with the Reflecting Pool?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: No answers to the questions there.
Up next, though, for us, we do have an answer for you because it is Source Code time. We give you a number at the center of a story in the news. Can you guess what the story is? Tonight's Source Code is 41. We'll be back in just a moment with that answer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 41, as in the 41 new files the Pentagon posted today on its UFO website. The documented sightings of UFOs include this video of a white orb floating above a populated area in the Middle East; a video showing two bright red hovering lights in 2022.
As President Trump posted about the government's ongoing release, back in May, when he said, People can decide for themselves, 'WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? As the President put it, Have Fun and Enjoy.
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
