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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Polls Close In MN, WI As Democrats Battle Over Party's Future; NYT: U.S. Knew Of A Shoulder-Fired Missile Threat Against AF1; WSJ: WH Asks DOJ To Consider New Reflecting Pool Charges. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 11, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Crews zeroed in on the pile of debris that baby was in, after hearing a man say he was buried with the baby. No word yet on his or the child's condition at this hour. As of now, 224 people are known to have died across Colombia.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.
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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: And good evening. I'm Kaitlan Collins. This is THE SOURCE. And that music means that you are watching CNN's special coverage of Election Night in America.
As we come on the air this evening, the polls have just closed in Minnesota and Wisconsin, a pair of midwestern states with the two marquee races of the night. Both are a test of Democrat support for progressive candidates versus the more moderates in their party ahead of the crucial midterm elections this November.
In the Wisconsin governor's race, the Democratic Socialist in that race, Francesca Hong, is hoping to topple the establishment-backed Democrat David Crowley. Unlike a lot of the other races that we've been following closely here these last few weeks, big-name progressives like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have not chosen to endorse in this race.
In the Minnesota Senate primary, Bernie Sanders has endorsed the lieutenant governor there, Peggy Flanagan, a progressive who is also backed by Elizabeth Warren, and who is running against Congresswoman Angie Craig, who is seen as the more moderate choice and is backed by Hakeem Jeffries and Nancy Pelosi.
Tonight, votes are also being counted in my home state of Alabama, Connecticut, and Vermont, and in South Carolina, where we just saw Darline Graham is facing a crowded Republican Senate primary to replace her late brother, Lindsey Graham, on the ballot this November. Since no candidate cleared 50 percent tonight, CNN can now project that Darline Graham will advance to a runoff that is set to take place two weeks from right now.
President Trump is watching all of this play out. He just landed back here in Washington. And this also comes amid his own push that he's been making now for voting restrictions that has been stalled in the Senate, as he is now refusing to rule out taking potentially drastic action.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WAYNE ALLYN ROOT, AMERICAN TELEVISION HOST AND AUTHOR: If they never get the SAVE America Act done, you have the right to declare a national security emergency for elections.
They can't challenge it. It can only be overturned by a two-thirds vote of both houses of Congress. So, if you do this in the next month, we will get photo ID, proof of citizenship, and a limit to mail-in ballots, and--
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Let me just say that stranger things have happened, OK? I'll leave it at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Stranger things have happened. What does that mean?
Well, we have some of our smartest political sources here with us to talk about this all tonight.
But first, I'm going to check in, as I always do on Election Nights, with John King at the Magic Wall.
John, tell us what you're seeing so far.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, number one, Kaitlan, as you mentioned, those ideological battles in the Democratic Party, the governor's race here in Wisconsin, the Senate race over in Minneapolis, waiting to see votes come in. Obviously, the polls just closed, so we're waiting to see them.
And as they do come in, a couple quick places to watch. You mentioned Francesca Hong. She is the Democratic Socialist candidate. David Crowley, the former Milwaukee County Executive, who is the establishment candidate.
Well, we'll watch here because in the two largest Democratic counties in the state, I went in reverse order. This is Dane County. It's home of the University of Wisconsin at Madison there. It's also where Francesca Hong calls home. This is a huge liberal Democratic base of the party in the State of Wisconsin. This is where Francesca Hong has to make a statement in the race.
Then you move over by population. It's bigger. It's about 16 percent. Dane County is about 10 percent of the state. Milwaukee is about 15 percent -- 16 percent of the state. Here, if David Crowley is going to surprise those polls and bounce back in this race, this is where he will have to make his statement here.
Again, we've watched this play out in other places. The same question where we talked about on Michigan night: Can a candidate who runs on the Bernie Sanders agenda -- in this case, Francesca Hong is the Democratic Socialist. Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan says he is not. But can they win in one of the ultimate battleground states? So, we'll watch this play out in Minneapolis as well.
And just you mentioned the Senate race at the top. Let me just bring this up. We're now done here in the sense of we know who will be in the runoff two weeks from tonight. CNN has projected Darline Graham, the interim Senator, the sister of the late Senator Lindsey Graham, and Congressman Ralph Norman will now go into that runoff. Again, two weeks from tonight. This is an election that came on to us because of tragic circumstances, the death of Senator Graham. We now know the two candidates there, and you know better than I, Kaitlan.
The President's decision to endorse Darline Graham in this race caused a bit of frustration and grumbling among South Carolina Republicans. Now we'll watch this play out for two more weeks.
COLLINS: Yes. Now we just heard from the President on the fact that this is now going to a runoff. We'll see what it means for the next two weeks.
KING: Right.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: And John King, we'll check back in with you at the Magic Wall throughout the hour.
KING: Yes.
COLLINS: Also, our colleague, Jeff Zeleny, is live in Madison tonight. He is at Francesca Hong's headquarters.
Jeff, what are you seeing so far, or what have you been also hearing from voters in Wisconsin? We've heard a lot from the strategists, from talking heads. What do the voters think in Wisconsin tonight?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, the supporters of Francesca Hong have gathered here and are filling the floor of the Atwood Music Hall in Madison. And as John was just saying there, Dane County, of course, Madison is central to her rise.
And talking to voters all day long here, we actually, frankly, heard a mix of supporters. Even some voters who very much admire her, are wondering about her electability in the fall. But hardcore supporters of her say this is a time for Democrats to go big. This is a time for Democrats to really respond to a call for change, and not just being sort of discontent with the Trump administration, but also discontent with the leadership of the Democratic Party.
But Kaitlan, I've really been struck by talking to even some of the most liberal voters. There is that concern about electability. And we asked Francesca Hong about that as we spent a little bit of time with her this week, and she said, Look, electability is always difficult to prove until you win an election. Fair enough, though. But David Crowley also, he's in Milwaukee this evening, he believes that the undecided sliver of voters and African American voters in Milwaukee County could offer somewhat of a path for him. But even some of the top Democratic officials in this state are not that confident of a David Crowley victory. However, they do want those to be counted.
And David Crowley has been traveling across the state with Governor Tony Evers for the last several days, and Governor Evers has been making a very strong argument that Democrats shouldn't squander all that they've built here in recent years, and they should elect David Crowley. Well, we will see what happens.
But Kaitlan, regardless if Francesca Hong is able to ride this surge of a progressive momentum, it's because of her call for a one-year moratorium on data centers. It's because of her call for affordability.
But again, the real test would then begin because this is a Democratic Socialist, a proud Democratic Socialist candidate. And Tom Tiffany, the Republican congressman, is likely to win his primary tonight. He's been watching all of this. And the Republican Governors Association has spent nearly $4 million trying to elevate the candidacy of Francesca Hong. That tells you a lot about what they think about the strength of these two candidates, come November.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, and clearly everyone at the campaign party is getting their updates from CNN tonight, Jeff. So, we'll continue to check back in with you as you are on the screen behind yourself right now.
ZELENY: That's right. Right there.
COLLINS: Jeff Zeleny, in Madison, we'll check back in with you throughout the hour. Thank you so much.
My top political sources are here tonight, as we are watching the map very closely.
And Karen, when you listen to what Jeff is reporting there, what they're hearing from voters, what Francesca Hong has been running on, but also the concerns that a lot of prominent national Democrats--
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes.
COLLINS: --including our buddy, David Axelrod, have about her winning. What are you watching for tonight?
FINNEY: Well, I actually take what Jeff said, the last thing he said is the most important thing, and that is the almost $4 million. Actually, a Republican operative told me yesterday, it was $3 million. So, I guess now it's almost $4 million. That has been spent to support her candidacy.
This has been a target for the RGA from the beginning. So, I actually think this is less of a test of her message. I think she thinks that having that spending in her behalf is actually a good thing. I don't think that her message is a good thing for the party. But I do think this is a bigger test of whether or not the RGA's spending is actually going to net out the result they wanted.
And the last thing I'll say very quickly is Crowley, it's sort of an interesting matchup because he was in the race, he got out of the race, he got back in the race. It's, I mean, he sort of -- it's hard to -- when you lose momentum to then build it back up. So, it doesn't feel like the same kind of comparison we've had in some other places.
COLLINS: Yes, how do you see that?
AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Well, I think I agree. She is an interesting candidate, to say the least. In many ways, a lot of her framing has been things that the party wants to run away from, things that candidates are very afraid of, specifically when it comes to the general.
And moreover, she's non-apologetic about a few very problematic things. We're still talking about Thanksgiving, which we probably shouldn't be talking about unless we're planning how much money we're going to spend on turkeys. I would rather people have more legitimate conversations.
But I also feel as though when you are investing or seeing that much of an investment in your campaign from the other side, it's somewhat of a bait, and this is not going to be a good place.
COLLINS: Yes, and to your point, I mean, when we had Francesca Hong on the show, we asked her about a slew of different topics, about these concerns--
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: --the fights playing out in the Democratic Party. The answer that got the most attention was when we asked her about her Thanksgiving post, and when she said it should be canceled.
[21:10:00]
FINNEY: Can I just say, her answer was concerning, not just because of the substance, but also because, she didn't know how to talk about her own values underlying it.
I mean, she sort of -- she talked about being a chef and bringing people together, instead of saying, Look, there was a period of time when we were having a very tough conversation in this country about how a portion of this country experiences that holiday. She could have said that or talked about her values. Instead, it was this circuitous thing about who gets invited to Thanksgiving?
COLLINS: Yes.
CROSS: Well, she could have moved on. I mean, at the end of the day, most Americans really do take very much issue with their traditions. So, it's just like if you're talking about canceling Christmas. Obviously, if you're of a non-Christian religion, that may be something that you feel doesn't really matter. But for everybody else, we represent it. We love it. I don't even eat turkey, but I love Thanksgiving. So, yes--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: I want to move on from Thanksgiving.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: Sorry, Scott. I know you want to weigh in on that.
But Shermichael, President Trump--
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I was going to weigh in on that.
COLLINS: But Shermichael, President Trump won by less than a point, or won Wisconsin by about a point in 2024. So, I do think there's a real question in terms of who they're going to be running against, how Republicans are watching this tonight.
SINGLETON: Yes, look, we're going to be potentially running against a candidate who doesn't share the values of Wisconsinites and most of Americans.
And so, when you talk about someone who says we should cancel Thanksgiving, or someone who's made pronouncements about Christmas being problematic, someone who's made various pronouncements about borders and the way we control immigration and the flow of immigration in our country? Most, I would argue, hardworking Wisconsin voters say, Look, we may not like certain aspects of the economy. We may think that sometimes Republicans may go a little too far on this or that. But we would rather vote for a Republican who still maintains the fundamental American values, as opposed to someone who wants to destroy and tear down everything we hold dear.
It's one thing to have a critique to improve things. It's a whole another thing to set the whole darn house on fire. And I would argue, most people aren't there, including many Democrats, which is why you see people like Axelrod saying, Wait a minute here, we shouldn't be embracing those types of candidates. That being the Democratic Party.
COLLINS: But if she does become the nominee, and Francesca Hong wins in a state that Trump won in 2024, two years ago. I mean, what would that signal to your party, Scott?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, that would be -- that would be crazy, to be honest. I mean, when you're so crazy--
COLLINS: But it could happen. JENNINGS: Well, of course, it's politics, anything could happen, I suppose. But when you're so crazy that Bernie Sanders and AOC won't even endorse you, you're pretty far out there.
I think these holiday conversation's actually viable. She hates Thanksgiving. Today, our own KFILE, here at CNN, uncovered the fact that over in Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed wants to get rid of the Fourth of July. And I think the reason these things are--
COLLINS: I think he said we should get rid of fireworks.
JENNINGS: He was very critical of the Fourth of July. I think these are windows--
COLLINS: But I'm just saying getting rid of fireworks is different than getting rid of the Fourth of July, Scott.
JENNINGS: I think you're -- I think you're down -- I think you're downplaying the message--
FINNEY: Well let's--
COLLINS: I'm not downplaying--
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: Don't have the quote here. So, let's not adjudicate.
JENNINGS: But I -- I think these are windows into the souls of these anti-American radical communists--
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: Oh, God. Scott. Come on.
JENNINGS: You hate Thanksgiving and you hate the Fourth of July? What you're really saying is, I hate some of the pillars that undergird American culture. And how are you going to have a conversation with a voter about affordability or public safety or anything else if you're trying to get rid of Thanksgiving and the Fourth of July? I mean, if I were Christmas and Easter, I wouldn't be feeling too comfortable right now if these people win.
COLLINS: He asked -- can I just be clear for a second?
FINNEY: Yes. Please.
COLLINS: He once asked YouTube viewers, whether Americans could please find another way to celebrate the Fourth of July with four reasons why fireworks suck. I just want to be clear what he said.
JENNINGS: Why did he delete it then? If it's so harmless, why did he delete it?
COLLINS: I didn't say it's harmless, Scott.
CROSS: Because--
COLLINS: I just wanted to be accurate.
JENNINGS: I just -- I just -- I just want to--
CROSS: People will come up with the same misconception as you just did, even though it was said in print.
I think that, moreover, for many of these candidates, especially for El-Sayed, but for others who are running as well, they're also looking at the cost of these items. A lot of people aren't even able to celebrate Thanksgiving the way that they were just a few years ago because of the rapid cost of food prices.
For individuals who really care about these holidays, they also care about their bottom line. So, most people are going to be taking that to the polls, not whether or not somebody said this specifically.
SINGLETON: But they don't -- but I guess my rebuttal here would be they don't want to get rid of it, and Republicans will draw the contrast -- again, to my initial point. It's one thing to not like certain policy positions on the right. We're not saying let's fundamentally change everything that people love about this country.
FINNEY: All right. All right. Here you -- I mean--
SINGLETON: That's the difference from some of the candidates on the other side.
FINNEY: You're thinking in a little bit much here.
SINGLETON: No, I don't think so. I'm not talking about mainstream Democratic candidates.
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: It was -- are we going to go back and talk about everybody's tweets? Are we talking about Max Miller?
SINGLETON: I'm talking about the extremists on the other side.
FINNEY: The guy who beat his own child? Are we going there?
SINGLETON: Well, you know where I stand about that. We were on together, so you know that.
FINNEY: He's your guy. He's your guy.
SINGLETON: Is he my guy? Have I endorsed him?
FINNEY: He's your party.
SINGLETON: Did I not say that he should withdraw?
FINNEY: He's your party. I'm just saying--
SINGLETON: See, that's the difference.
JENNINGS: I mean--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Yes, while we're on the subject--
SINGLETON: But I think--
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: --Democrats, like David Axelrod, to have--
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: --more courage to say these candidates shouldn't represent your party. Just like I said, someone who's accused of abusing their wife shouldn't be running to represent my party.
CROSS: I think the bigger tale is that progressives have not endorsed her.
SINGLETON: I think that's the difference.
CROSS: When you talk about AOC and Bernie. It is not surprising that you have somebody who lies within the moderate wing who does not support her.
COLLINS: Well and their argument--
CROSS: Because he hasn't supported any other progressives either really.
[21:15:00]
FINNEY: I think the bigger argument is that the Republicans clearly want the seat back, and they bolstered her, knowing that if she became the nominee, given that the rest of the field was kind of shaky, it made their job easier.
JENNINGS: Has Democrats -- have Democrats--
COLLINS: The argument from Bernie Sanders--
JENNINGS: --ever meddled in the primaries?
FINNEY: Of course. A 1,000 percent. It's called politics.
COLLINS: The argument from Bernie Sanders--
SINGLETON: Yes, yes, I mean, you know.
JENNINGS: Yes.
COLLINS: OK. Can I--
FINNEY: Sorry.
SINGLETON: Isn't it -- isn't it--
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: --at home.
COLLINS: The argument for Bernie Sanders and AOC is that they're working on the House and the Senate--
JENNINGS: Oh, yes.
COLLINS: --because I asked that as well.
But in terms of what Jeff Zeleny was talking about there, her other positions. Not just on Thanksgiving. On the moratorium on data centers, on Medicare for All. I mean, those are questions about those positions being--
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: --more populist type messaging for these progressive Democrats.
FINNEY: A 100 percent. Look, we've seen that the data center issue is actually a bipartisan issue. You've had the Republican governor of Texas say, Hold on. I mean, a number of Republican leaders are hearing that from their own constituents. Medicare for All actually enjoys almost 70 percent support across this country. So, these aren't just left-wing policies; they're actually policies that a broader swath of Americans support.
COLLINS: OK. We will be watching closely.
Obviously, we have now seen the polls close there. We'll be following those results closely with John King at the Magic Wall, and all of the primaries that we are following tonight.
We're also following new reporting from The New York Times on that operation to get President Trump on a secret flight, much to the surprise of the reporters traveling with him, some of his own staff, and other members of the military and Secret Service. The New York Times now says it was a surface-to-air missile threat against Air Force One that prompted the change.
My inside sources next are two legendary reporters, including one who was on Air Force One on 9/11.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's only up to Secret Service. I just follow what they'd like to do. So, I go by Secret Service and the military. They wanted me to go on a different flight, a different plane, equal safety, but they wanted me to do it, so I do it. I do what they say.
REPORTER: Why was it too dangerous for you to fly on Air Force One, but not too dangerous for the press?
TRUMP: Well, I don't know. I think actually the plane that I flew on was at greater risk. I think it was at greater risk because that would be the plane I think that we -- that they would be more likely to go for.
REPORTER: Were you worried about a shoulder-fired missile?
TRUMP: I don't worry about anything, to be honest. Whatever it is. You know my attitude? Whatever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was President Trump, just a few moments ago, on the tarmac, at Joint Base Andrews, confirming, for the first time, that remarkable reporting from 24 hours ago from The Washington Post that he had been put on a secret plane because of a threat against him as he was flying back from Turkey to the United Kingdom.
And this comes tonight, as The New York Times is also adding to that breaking news with some reporting of their own. They say on the assassination threat that prompted the President to go onto a catering truck to a secret plane, two U.S. officials are telling The New York Times' Eric Schmitt and Maggie Haberman that, quote, U.S. intelligence knew that there was a specific threat of a surface-to-air missile against Air Force One, meaning whichever plane was carrying the President, and that someone in the vicinity of the NATO summit had been spotted with a shoulder-fired missile. And that, quote, "The Iranians knew specifically where Mr. Trump was staying in Ankara, including which floor of the building."
They're arguing the threat was serious enough to put the President on a secret plane during his flight back from Turkey, and which kept several members of his staff, members of the Secret Service, and the traveling White House press corps on what effectively became a decoy plane, without their knowledge, of course.
This comes as The Wall Street Journal reports that the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, was one of the highest officials who was still on the original Air Force One. Today, when he was asked about this entire situation, he declined to answer this question from my colleague Jenny Hansler.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER AND WRITER, NATIONAL SECURITY: Mr. Secretary, did you put Americans at risk by having them fly on Air Force One when it was under threat? How persistent is that threat to the President?
MARCO RUBIO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you, guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: My sources tonight are two legendary reporters with decades of experience covering presidential administrations.
Barbara Starr, who spent more than 20 years as our Pentagon correspondent.
And retired ABC News White House correspondent, Ann Compton, who was on board Air Force One with President Bush on 9/11 in a remarkable moment.
And Ann, I mean, it's just great to have you here tonight. I mean, I thought about you immediately when this story broke yesterday. When you hear the President confirming this--
ANN COMPTON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, ABC NEWS: Yes.
COLLINS: --and that this did happen, as you heard his comments just there, and you think back on that day on 9/11, what goes through your mind?
COMPTON: Well, two things. One, how long did they have to put this threat into some kind of protective mode? It seems maybe even when the big Qatari plane left early for whatever reason to get it out of the way, maybe before any assassin could get his act together, the idea of changing planes. I don't know, I think it's rather brilliant to have gotten him through the plane and out through a -- through a -- you know, the catering truck.
But on 9/11 because, that happened so abruptly, so bluntly, but the President wasn't the target. It was buildings. It was within the first hour and a half on 9/11, there were 3,000 civilian casualties, innocent civilians dead in the ruins in New York, the Pentagon, and in Shanksville.
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: And I thought about you yesterday because, in Garrett Graff's book, he talks about what happened.
And there was a point where Ari Fleischer came back on the plane to the press cabin and said, quote, This is off the record, but the president is being evacuated.
And you told him a line that I love. You said, You can't put that off the record because that's a historic and chilling fact. That has to be on the record.
And your argument was, you know, this is part of history--
COMPTON: Absolutely.
COLLINS: --in terms of where the President was and what he is doing on this day.
COMPTON: However, Ari knew that we were on an aircraft where my little Motorola flip phone did not have any connection. There was no way I could have -- could have reported that or shared it with the other media.
But it did become part of the whole narrative because even the -- as the President took off from the refueling stop to go to the underground bunker in Omaha, I watched the little clocks on Air Force One under the TV screen, and the little clocks say the time in Washington, the time locally, and the time in the destination. Local was 01:36 p.m. Washington was 01:36 p.m. The destination was 12:36 p.m. He was being evacuated. And based on that, I had no trouble reporting it.
COLLINS: I mean, just when you think about that, and Barbara Starr, when you hear this new reporting tonight from The New York Times, about how specific this threat was. I mean, the President there was saying, his response is, Whatever, and he just does what the Secret Service tells him.
But The New York Times is saying that U.S. intelligence knew there was a specific of a -- a specific threat of a surface-to-air missile against Air Force One, whichever plane was carrying the President, and someone in the vicinity of the NATO summit had been spotted with a shoulder-fired missile.
What do you make of that, Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, FORMER CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT, SENIOR FELLOW, USC CENTER ON COMMUNICATION LEADERSHIP AND POLICY: Well, first, what I want to say is my former colleague, when I was at ABC, Ann Compton, how amazing what she is telling the world tonight with this very plain, simple language, which is, Truth is paramount. Don't lie about it. This is history. And I think this is where the administration has gone wrong.
Yes, the President had to be protected at all costs in the face of the Iranian threat that we now know that they felt they had on hand. But look, they got him safely, thank goodness, on a third airplane, and they got him away. That's all good.
There's a couple of things though that are highly problematic. I don't subscribe to the notion it was a decoy plane. Because my question is this: If it was not safe for the President to be on that flight, how was it safe for the media to be on that flight and to be lied to, not to be told the truth? Yet, again, to be lied to.
Because the thing is, it was the U.S. military flying the plane. The U.S. military does not put civilians unknowingly at risk. The President was gone; he wasn't being threatened anymore, presumably, but the civilians on board were still under threat, and the U.S. military under orders flew that plane. Somebody needs to tell me why that's a legal order. Because that's not what the U.S. military does.
And I think the other issue that The New York Times, of course, is beginning to explore in detail is the Iranian capability in the region. What we know is U.S. intelligence has been watching very carefully, the Iranians are improving in their precision, in their accuracy of their weapons, in their mobility. In other words, their ability, even while under attack from the U.S. and the allies in the region, their ability to move around and plan and stage attacks.
And their precision is something, and their accuracy of their weapons is something that the U.S. is going to have to deal with now for years to come in the region. This is a new level of accuracy by the Iranians.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point about their capabilities.
And Barbara, when you heard the President say there that actually the plane he was on was in the most danger, what did you make of that? Given, The Washington Post reporting last night was that that plane was a secret military plane and that it wasn't trackable, basically.
STARR: Well, if there was a surface-to-air missile threat directly in the airport region, my immediate sort of thought is they would have been concerned that that launcher, whoever had it, might have been able to lock on, if you will, to a heat signature from this smaller plane that the President was on.
[21:30:00]
I don't know for a fact what capabilities that smaller plane had. But you know, very interesting. The President says he didn't ask too many questions. But clearly, he must have asked about the capabilities of this plane because he was concerned that it would not be as protective, possibly as the other flight, the other planes that he might have been on.
Everything is trackable. I don't think there's any question about that. But I think what we know from aviation tracking sites out there who have reported on this, very capably, is that plane was flying under another, if you will, name. It was not called Air Force One.
COLLINS: Yes.
STARR: It was flying under a different label, and people were able eventually to piece together what plane it was.
COLLINS: Yes.
And Ann, when you hear what Barbara's saying there and the importance of truth and transparency, or -- you know, one question that's been raised today is telling the press after the threat had passed, after the President was safely either in the United Kingdom or back on U.S. soil.
It reminded me of when you were on a refueling stop on 9/11, and you were worried that the media would be left behind, that you--
COMPTON: Yes.
COLLINS: --that you wouldn't be able to travel on with the President, and you told White House staffers, You can't kick the press off the plane. If you want the world -- much less the United States -- to have confidence in the fact that the American president is safe and that he's in charge and that this government hasn't been brought to its knees, you need a free and independent press with you.
COMPTON: And that administration listened to us.
And Andy Card, the White House chief of staff, had a hard job that day.
President Bush said that he was not going to be stuck out somewhere. He wanted to go back and tell the American people, from the Oval Office, that his government had not been damaged. It had not -- it was still in control. And he said, I'm going back to Washington now.
And Andy Card kept saying, You don't want to make that decision right now.
And the President did listen to the Secret Service and those who said, Not yet. It was late in the afternoon, hours and hours later, when they told him -- he was on the conference call with the PEOC, the President's Emergency Operations Center, and he said, I'm coming home.
And they said, We recommend you, do not do that.
He said, Fine, I'm coming.
And the President got his way.
COLLINS: Ann Compton. Barbara Starr. It is an honor to have both of you here tonight with your excellent reporting. Thank you both for joining us.
STARR: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next. We're going to continue to follow the election results tonight. John King still at the Magic Wall and running the numbers for us. As we are getting results in Wisconsin. We'll share them with you right after a quick break.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're getting more results tonight from that key Democratic primary race in Wisconsin. I want to check in with John King at the Magic Wall for the latest.
John, what are we seeing in the numbers tonight?
KING: Looking over my shoulder at the toss just to see if the numbers are changing, Kaitlan. This is the Wisconsin Democratic primary, and again, the latest in the insurgent versus the establishment we've seen throughout this primary season among the Democrats.
At the moment, it is your establishment candidate, David Crowley who's leading in this race. About 20 percent of the vote in, so we have a ways to go. You just saw it change a little bit there: 6,300 vote change -- vote lead, 42 percent to 39 percent. A long way to go. But let's just look at the map right now. And I mentioned earlier, David Crowley is the former Milwaukee County Executive. He is leading in Milwaukee right now, but just barely, just barely. It's a little over a point right there. So, that's probably not enough, if you will, or it's not what you want. You're not comfortable with that. But again, 44 percent of the vote. We'll see how that plays out.
This is where Mr. Crowley needs to make a statement because it's his home base. It's also the African American base of the Democratic Party, and he's hoping to run up some numbers there.
So let's just go, let me pull this back up, and let's just go from east to west. This is Waukesha. In November, we'll be looking at Waukesha quite closely because it's a Republican-leaning but a swing suburban area. And in the midterm elections in Donald Trump, the suburbs have revolted against Trump. So, we'll be looking there in November.
Tonight, there are -- the closer you're in here, these are the Milwaukee suburbs right in here. You start moving out. Mr. Crowley, with a much more substantial lead here. And again, this is the third most populous county in the state. So, Waukesha could be a big deal as we get later into the night.
Then you're moving over to Jefferson County. This is much less population here. But I went east to west to get here. This is Madison County. This is the University of Wisconsin -- Dane County, excuse me, where Madison is. It's the University of Wisconsin. It's the liberal. And again, I mentioned that it was very close on Mr. Crowley's home base in Milwaukee. It's pretty close here too, in Francesca Hong's home base of Madison.
So, we saw this play out again, Kaitlan, in Michigan, where a lot of the expectations coming in were that someone was going to stretch it out, but one of the insurgent candidates was going to stretch it out and blow it out. At the moment, that is simply not happening, again, which shows you, number one, a lot more votes to count, and number two, this Democratic divide, this divide among Democrats, is almost literally down the middle.
COLLINS: John King, we'll check back in with you as we see what that divide continues to look like tonight.
KING: Yes.
COLLINS: And for the Democrats here at the table, one thing that's fascinating about this race is the spending here.
Because Francesca Hong, I believe, has spent less than $450,000 in this race.
When it comes to David Crowley, the other Democrat, he's spent $4 million.
The Republican candidate Tom Tiffany spent over $13 million.
What does that show you about the candidates and their strategies here?
FINNEY: Well, again, I think the outside spending on behalf of Hong is part of the story here that we shouldn't underestimate.
And look, I think what the results are bearing out is voters are trying to decide who of these candidates do I trust to be able to deliver what they say they're going to do. Obviously, if you have more money, you have a better ability to get your message across. I think that's what you're seeing in the Republican primary.
[21:40:00]
But we'll see at the end of the day, sort of where -- I'd be interested to see sort of where -- whoever wins, where their vote came, and the next -- well, it'll be curious to see what people say about why they made that particular selection. Because we were hearing people earlier today saying they were supporting Crowley because they didn't think Hong could win in the general.
COLLINS: What do you make of the numbers so far, as John King was saying, split down the middle in some of these counties?
CROSS: We still got quite a bit to go, but I think that there -- it cannot be remiss to talk about the push towards -- that the Democratic Party is actually seeing in their split down the middle at this point, with individuals who do want to see more insurgent candidates, who do want to see more candidates who can dream of things that never were, who do want to see candidates who do not look like the status quo. That is a very significant thing for the Democratic Party. Whether or not it's going to play out in Wisconsin, we'll see. There's still quite a few votes to be tallied.
But in what we've seen thus far, in terms of that split in counties. It showcases that there are people who are absolutely fine with the status quo, who are fine being moderates, who this is their lane. And then there is a considerable amount of other people who obviously want to turn the page.
COLLINS: Well, and Democrats are choosing who they want to take on the Republicans here.
I mean, when it comes to the President, as he got off Air Force One tonight, he was talking about affordability, he was talking about employment.
This comes as polls show that voters don't love what he's doing on the economy right now. One of them says -- 65 percent of those surveyed say his policies made it worse actually, when it comes to the economy. That's actually also going to be a big challenge for the Republican candidates that emerge tonight.
SINGLETON: Look, it is going to be a challenge. But I would be remiss in stating, despite some of the hurdles and issues on my side, the Democratic Party still has some issues in terms of popularity. Now, they've had successes with individual candidates in very specific races in a lot of these special elections since last year across the country. But the net approval of the party as a whole is in the toilet.
COLLINS: Yes, it's bad but--
SINGLETON: I mean, we've had Harry Enten talk about this time and time again. My point--
COLLINS: But what about Republicans?
SINGLETON: But -- but -- no, no -- but my point here, Kaitlan, is this: despite some of the flaws that you just pointed out, affordability, et cetera. When you contrast that against some of the candidates that are running on the other side, who just cannot govern, some of these folks who believe in things that are like wishful thinking for most people--
FINNEY: Well, we don't know yet because they hadn't had a general election there, Shermichael.
SINGLETON: --the average American looks at that and they just say, This is untenable for what I believe will help resolve some of my very real pain points.
FINNEY: Then why are we winning in the--
SINGLETON: And that's going to be the message from Republicans.
FINNEY: Why are we winning in the generic ballot there?
SINGLETON: Do you want folks who can govern and deliver, or people who believe in socialism and things that we know, frankly, can't work? And that's a very easy contrast to draw. I'll run on that every single night.
COLLINS: But I'm -- well, I'm confused about the argument because the poll is about how Republican -- how people feel about the President's policies.
SINGLETON: I understand that. But my point is when you draw a contrast from how people feel about Trump compared to these DSA candidates, I'm willing to argue that the average person is far more concerned about extremism and views and values that they don't hold, than their perhaps dislike with some of Trump's policy positions or certain things that they may believe he hasn't fully delivered on.
CROSS: You're--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Even those who think that he made the economy worse?
SINGLETON: I, again, I strongly believe that. Strongly believe that. You run those candidates, I promise you, Republicans will win every single time.
CROSS: Against people's pocketbooks? Against their ability to pay utilities? SINGLETON: Run -- if you run -- if you run those D -- if you run those--
CROSS: For food? Food childcare? For health care?
SINGLETON: If you guys run those DSA candidates--
FINNEY: All right--
SINGLETON: --I promise you, it will be a real vulnerability for your party.
FINNEY: Let's not forget that Zohran Mamdani got some Trump voters. So, we don't know what. I'm just saying, people -- there are some people who -- you have Bernie Sanders voters--
SINGLETON: So--
FINNEY: --who voted for Trump. You've got -- I mean, look, I think--
SINGLETON: So, is Mamdani--
FINNEY: Hold on.
SINGLETON: Go ahead, Karen. Go ahead. Go ahead.
FINNEY: But I think part of -- again, this is a very volatile electorate, and I don't think we -- I think we're all trying to predict what we think we know. But again, I think listening to the voters, they're so angry. They probably are willing to try some--
SINGLETON: Yes, but--
FINNEY: --throw some things against the wall.
SINGLETON: But--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Scott, do you agree -- but Scott--
SINGLETON: --representative of the entire country though.
COLLINS: Scott, do you agree -- well, that's what's being tested. That's the question.
FINNEY: Right.
COLLINS: But do you agree that any Democratic Socialist candidate who's running against a Republican is going to lose?
JENNINGS: No, not necessarily. I mean, you have to run the races. I mean, I think Shermichael's premise is largely correct, that if you're running on democratic socialism and all of this platform that they clearly have put out, abolish borders, abolish prisons, abolish the police, abolish the Constitution. COLLINS: But that's not what Francesca Hong is running on.
JENNINGS: Well, that's what the Democratic Socialists of America are running on. His argument is--
COLLINS: You know, but we asked her about that and she said she disagrees with those policies.
JENNINGS: His argument is that the -- the larger overlay of this socialist platform does contain things that are going to sound, frankly, crazy to the average voter. That gives Republicans running in a difficult environment a strategic opening to draw a real contrast.
So, to your point, I agree with you. Look, I've never been in an election cycle when the economy wasn't the most important issue, save 2002 when right after 9/11, when Republicans outkicked the historical narrative there. But most of the time, it's the economy, and you will have to tangle with it. But when these Democrats give you--
COLLINS: So you are worried about that?
[21:45:00]
JENNINGS: Of course. But when the Democrats give you openings on things that just frankly make them sound unhinged, when -- look, part of campaigning is finding the ground on which you want to fight. And if you don't want to fight on this ground because it's weak for you, you climb onto a different hill that's stronger for you. And these Democratic Socialists are giving us those hills every day.
COLLINS: We will continue to watch and see what actually emerges tonight, what the voters think, and what happens. John King is still at the Magic Wall for us.
Up next. We also have a new report tonight that the White House wants the Justice Department to look into revitalizing those Reflecting Pool vandalism charges, even though the Justice Department said it actually wasn't vandalism. My source tonight is the attorney for the Olympian who is at the center of all of this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, White House officials are asking the Justice Department to consider a new prosecution against former Olympian David Hearn for allegedly vandalizing the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, 12 days after the U.S. Attorney, Jeanine Pirro, dropped that case.
The Wall Street Journal says tonight that Justice Department officials are exploring whether another type of case, likely based on misdemeanor allegations, is even possible. The discussions have been informal and preliminary, according to this new report.
But new charges would be remarkable, given Jeanine Pirro herself said, quote, "The damage was the result of a botched installation and not vandalism," and that it was not until after the return of Hearn's indictment that the Department of Interior provided additional documents indicating that damage to the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool was the result of flawed installation by the contractor and the rush to complete that project prior to the events associated with the America 250 celebration.
That, of course, was a complete about-face compared to what Jeanine Pirro had said when she indicted David Hearn.
[21:50:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANINE PIRRO, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: There was an effort, a violent effort, to rip up the sealant from the bottom of the pool.
We can state and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he caused damage, and that damage is over a $1,000.
REPORTER: Keying in on that, how do you prove that $1,000--
PIRRO: With an expert.
REPORTER: Is that because--
PIRRO: Come to the trial.
REPORTER: Did he have any tools, or is it just his bare hands?
PIRRO: Right now we believe it's his bare hands, both hands.
REPORTER: So, does that indicate, in your belief, that it was probably damaged before, or do you believe that he--
PIRRO: Oh, he damaged it.
REPORTER: Further. But do you believe there -- it had already been damaged before, so--
PIRRO: He damaged the pool.
REPORTER: Before he touched it, he--
PIRRO: He damaged this pool.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, President Trump was furious and considering firing Jeanine Pirro after she dropped that case. He's also acknowledged, however, that there were issues with the renovation, and has said there's no video or proof that Hearn actually damaged the pool, though he argues that there is a highly credible witness to back up his claims.
I spoke to David Hearn and his attorney, just a few days ago, about the continued efforts to go after him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The Interior Secretary, Doug Burgum, that you mentioned there, Norm, wrote after that court filing and said, The evidence is clear, that vandals have repeatedly caused damage to the Reflecting Pool. He says, some of this was caught on camera. He talks about eyewitness testimony.
What is your reaction to hearing a senior official in the government still say that it was vandalism?
DAVID HEARN, THREE-TIME OLYMPIC CANOEIST: It's very unsettling. It's not the United States of America that I know. It's not the United States of America that I've represented in many competitions overseas, including three Olympic Games, 13 World Championships. It's just -- it's just not -- it's just not right. It has to be rejected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And David Hearn's attorney joins me again tonight, Norm Eisen.
Thank you for being here, Norm.
Based on this new reporting from The Wall Street Journal, are you expecting more charges to be filed against your client here?
NORM EISEN, ATTORNEY FOR DAVID HEARN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS CZAR: Kaitlan, the reporting that after the U.S. Attorney's Office admitted that the cause of the damage was a botched, rushed installation, and moved to dismiss the case, and the case has been dismissed. To have the White House press DOJ to bring charges back? That's not American.
It's so wrong. It's so outrageous. I hope that DOJ will reject this, that they will refuse to do it because Davey Hearn is innocent. It is a sad day in our country when an innocent man is charged, but a bizarre one when after the case is dismissed they press the DOJ to do this.
So, we're hopeful that there will be no new charges. But I'll tell you this: if they're brought? Myself and my wonderful co-counsel, Mary Dohrmann at the Washington Litigation Group, Steve Levine at Steptoe, my colleagues at Democracy Defenders Fund, we are with Davey all the way to fight this. And I think the American people, irrespective of party, are with him as well.
COLLINS: Well, if there are charges brought against him again, I mean, would you use Jeanine Pirro's filing--
EISEN: She--
COLLINS: --to fight those charges?
EISEN: I mean, Kaitlan--
COLLINS: I mean, wouldn't that be the word of the DOJ versus the DOJ though? EISEN: I mean, it's so unbelievable. They said in that filing that there was no evidence beyond a reasonable doubt because the damage was caused by a botched and rushed installation. So certainly, the very first thing that the judge will hear, if charges are brought again is the words of the U.S. Attorney's Office blaming the Department of the Interior.
When I was a special counsel to President Obama in the White House, we had a memo that the President could not interfere with or intervene in enforcement cases, precisely to avoid this kind of thing. So, the outrageousness of it. It won't stand in a court of law if it comes back. And I assume the reason we read about it today in The Wall Street Journal, and elsewhere, is because people in DOJ are as horrified as I am and as Davey is at this possibility.
COLLINS: Yes, what was his reaction to reading this report tonight?
[21:55:00]
EISEN: Well, as you heard from him when we visited with you the other day. He's a three-time Olympian, 13-time world champion. He's used to stress. His concern was not principally for himself, but as he told you, it's for America. It's for our democracy.
If Davey Hearn can be attacked this way, you or I or anybody in the country can be the victim of criminal investigation and prosecution. And the process is the punishment to have to go through it, to have that stress, to send a message of retaliation and intimidation.
But Davey is not so easily pushed around, as you saw, when we visited, and he's going to hang tough. And if this happens--
COLLINS: Yes.
EISEN: --we are fighting it all the way.
COLLINS: Well, Norm Eisen, we'll check back in with you if they do actually go forward with this. Thank you for taking the time to join us tonight.
EISEN: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. It is time for Source Code. We give you a number at the center of a story that's in the news. Can you figure out what the story is? Tonight's Source Code is 250,000. We'll be right back with the answer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 250,000, as in $250,000. That's because, according to The New York Times, that's how much a judge ordered The Kennedy Center to pay the musician, Chuck Redd, to cover his legal fees, after the Center had sued him for not performing his free concert last year.
He had canceled his annual Christmas Eve jazz concert in protest of the President's name being added to the exterior of The Kennedy Center.
The Center then sued him, alleging that he had violated his contract.
But a judge dismissed that case, in June, after she found that he did not actually sign a contract, and also noted that The Kennedy Center was not financially affected since the concert was free.
The Kennedy Center, we are told, plans to appeal this ruling.
[22:00:00]
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight.
CNN's coverage of this Election Night in America continues with "CNN NEWSNIGHT."
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT: Tonight. The results are in. Who has the upper hand in the fight for the left? The establishment?
