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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Moderate Dem Defeats Dem Socialist In Wisconsin Gov. Primary; Karoline Leavitt Steps Down As White House Press Secretary; Border Security Plan At Big Bend National Park Sparks Backlash. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 12, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ADAM FRANK, PROFESSOR OF ASTROPHYSICS, UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER: --so, it's really worthwhile to have your mind blown, to go out there and, again, see where we live, see the architecture of the cosmos, of the heavens.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: I have so many questions about the ever-expanding universe, but I have like 10 seconds, so I can't ask any of them. But I'd love to have you back.
Adam Frank, thank you so much.
FRANK: That would be great. Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Last night he pulled off an upset, a huge upset that very few saw coming. And tonight, David Crowley is going to join me live here.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Less than a month ago, my lead source tonight wasn't even in the running to be the governor of Wisconsin. He had dropped out of the race, briefly, and endorsed somebody else. But last night, he pulled off an upset that has pollsters and the progressive left trying to figure out what went wrong.
Democrat David Crowley narrowly defeated the Democratic Socialist in the race, Francesca Hong, in a contest that wasn't even expected to be close. Instead, it ended up being a nailbiter that went late into the night. Francesca Hong led David Crowley, who serves as the Milwaukee County Executive, I should note, by double digits in just about every poll leading into last night.
The momentum appeared to be on her side after Democrats in neighboring Michigan had chosen the more progressive Abdul El-Sayed, as their Senate nominee, over the center-left Congresswoman Haley Stevens last week. That race also ended up being closer than most people expected as well. And like El-Sayed, some of Hong's past statements and tweets in this race had come back to haunt her, including one where she advocated for getting rid of Thanksgiving.
Now, just as we saw in Michigan, the winner in Wisconsin is now urging for unity to happen inside the Democratic Party, as he's preparing to face the Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany in November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CROWLEY, (D) WISCONSIN GOVERNOR NOMINEE: We may not agree on every policy. We may not use the same labels. But we all want safe communities, strong schools, affordable health care, good-paying jobs, and a brighter future for all of our children. And every one of us has something much bigger to unite around, and that is keeping MAGA extremism from bringing the chaos we see in Washington into our neighborhoods right here in the State of Wisconsin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, as Crowley is tying his Republican opponent to President Trump and what he describes there as MAGA extremism. Tom Tiffany is arguing that Crowley and Hong aren't so different from each other.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM TIFFANY (R-WI), (R) WISCONSIN GOVERNOR NOMINEE: David Crowley, he said two weeks ago that he's basically in alignment with all of her policies. Make no doubt about it. This is where Democrats are at this point. Some of them still don't want to say it out loud. Give Francesca Hong credit for that much. She told people the truth. People are going to find out that there is nothing moderate about David Crowley.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And my lead source tonight is last night's surprise winner, David Crowley, who is now the Democratic nominee for governor of Wisconsin.
And thank you, sir, for being here.
Because, as I noted, you had briefly suspended your campaign less than a month ago. Tonight, you're the Democratic nominee. Why do you think you won last night?
CROWLEY: Well, first and foremost, thank you for having me.
I think I won last night because we have stark contrast related to what we're going to do and how I'm the best candidate to ultimately defeat Tom Tiffany, this upcoming November.
We know we need a candidate that not only has executive experience, has experience governing, but has the ability to coalesce people along the political spectrum. And so, when we think about what's happening in this country, there are a lot of not just Democrats but Independents, Republicans who are, quite frankly, exhausted by MAGA and want a candidate that they can believe in. And when I think about what we have done about fully funding our public schools, making sure to provide health care and child care for those who absolutely need it, but more importantly, bridging the gap between suburban, urban, and rural communities, all across this state, is how we get, ultimately, we achieve our goal of defeating MAGA extremism and Congressman Tom Tiffany.
COLLINS: Why do you think the polls were so -- so off in this race?
CROWLEY: That's a good question, Kaitlan. I'm not really sure. I'm not an expert when it comes down to these polls. The only polls that I really care about is what happens after the polls close.
[21:05:00]
But I think that what we have learned, not only looking at the State of Wisconsin but also in Michigan, is that they've been widely off, and I think that we haven't been really talking to those -- all those voters. And let's face it; those who are enthusiastic about these polls and answering polls, those are the individuals responding to these polls. But I have no clue why these polls have been widely off these past couple of cycles.
COLLINS: Going into last night, there was -- there was a big question about your party in general, what direction it was going to take. The Wall Street Journal today called you, quote, the Man Who Halted Progressive Momentum. Is that a characterization that you welcome?
CROWLEY: Absolutely not. I think that we have tried to tie progressivism to rhetoric. But I think when it comes down to being progressive, it's about the actions that you take. How do you pass policies and implement laws that actually has a positive impact on the communities that you represent?
Living here in the State of Wisconsin, when I think about progressives, you know, I think people forget that some of the progressives here, when it started, were actually Republicans. We have taken that back as -- when it comes down as Democrats, and I think that a lot of people have tried to focus on the progressives versus the establishment, or insiders versus outsiders.
All I know is that not enough people have had a seat at the table, and I was told that if you don't have a seat at the table, you're in the menu. And when I think about our political spectrum, there are a lot of people who don't feel they have a political home. And that's why I wanted to get into this race, to bring as many people under the Democratic tent as much as possible. Let's have those tough conversations, but let's make sure that we're actually focusing on strategies that help us reach our goals.
COLLINS: Well, and in terms of labels. I mean, obviously, Democratic Socialist is one that Francesca Hong applied to herself here. And you had told The Wall Street Journal, the day before the primary, There are a lot of people who are scared. You said that she was a self- proclaimed socialist, and a lot of people were worried about not just this party but this country moving in that direction. She had some positions that she took, where she supported a state-run public bank, taxpayer-subsidized childcare, government-owned grocery stores, Medicare for All, abolishing ICE.
Do you support any of those positions? Do the two of you have any of that in common?
CROWLEY: We won't always agree on everything, and no, we don't agree on all of those different positions that you just named off.
But we do know this: that MAGA extremism is not the way that we want to go. It's not where our state wants to go, and it's not the way that our country should be going. And at the end of the day, we need to make sure that we can defeat Donald Trump's legacy and make sure that Tom Tiffany doesn't become our governor.
And so, I love the fact that, particularly when it comes down to Democrats as well as Independents and those who are willing to come to the table, we can have the hard discussions about how we reach our goals. But we don't have to agree on everything.
COLLINS: I mean, I have to ask, where do you stand on Thanksgiving?
CROWLEY: I like Thanksgiving. My favorite dish is dressing.
COLLINS: OK. Mr. David Crowley--
CROWLEY: Chicken dressing. Chicken dressing for my sister-in-law.
COLLINS: OK. Well your sister-in-law is going to be happy with that answer.
Thank you so much for joining us tonight. And what a night last night. And we really appreciate you joining. We hope you come back as we get closer to November. So, thank you, sir.
CROWLEY: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
COLLINS: Also joining me tonight, one of the most prominent Democrats in office, that is the Governor of Maryland, Wes Moore.
And thank you, Governor, for being here.
You heard what Mr. Crowley was saying there about what message he thinks his win sends, that he came off of last night, what a message it sends. Where do you believe that takes your party tonight in terms of the direction and what Democrats should be doing ahead of November, in your view.
GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): I'm incredibly excited for my friend, David Crowley, who I've known for years. But more importantly, I'm excited for the people of Wisconsin. This is a leader who is a commonsense leader, who focuses on saying, where as I've -- as I've said, we've got to stop being the party of no and slow, and start being the party of yes and now, and someone who is really focusing on addressing the issues that people care about. I think this was an important statement. It was an important statement because when you look at -- when you look at what the options, and when you have Tom Tiffany, someone who is focused on bringing Wisconsin backwards. A future-facing, bold vision for Wisconsin is exactly what the state needs, and I'm excited for David, and I'm excited to go out to Wisconsin and go campaign for him.
COLLINS: Do you believe the past comments and positions that Francesca Hong had taken, defunding the police, saying, in a perfect world that prisons don't exist. I mean, she did once call for canceling Thanksgiving, something that had gotten so much attention in the last few weeks. In addition to the other policy positions she took. Do you think that that cost her the race in the end?
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MOORE: Well, listen, I mean, those aren't positions that I agree with. But I think that the reason that the people of Wisconsin voted for David Crowley was not because they were trying to send a statement to Francesca Hong. It was because they believed in the vision of David Crowley.
They believed in a vision where we said that health care should be affordable and accessible to people. They believed in a vision that said we should have more affordable housing options for people. They believed in a vision that we can actually reduce violence inside of our communities and inside of our neighborhoods, and we don't need to militarize our neighborhoods in order to do so.
It's the same thing that I think we've seen here in the State of Maryland, and why I think the people believe in what we are seeing, and people believe in the momentum that our state continues to have.
COLLINS: In terms of Democratic Socialists that have won races in the last several weeks, do you believe that there is room for them in the Democratic Party?
MOORE: I think, when I'm going around the State of Maryland, no one is asking me about Democratic Socialists nor progressive versus moderate. They're trying to figure out OK, who's going to make sure that we can bring prices down, who's going to make sure that we can have safe streets?
Because what they're seeing from the White House right now, they're seeing a White House that is waging a war that we're all paying for, but that none of us understand.
They're seeing a White House right now that thinks affordability is a hoax, and is doing nothing to address the issue that most people care about.
They're seeing a White House right now that no one has had a better year, over the past year, than Donald Trump. He's had a fantastic year, while we're watching the prices on everything for everybody else continue to go up. And so, I think that when I'm talking to people in communities in Maryland, I'm not hearing about, Where are you on a political spectrum? For people, they look at that as Politics 101. When the people of my state, they're just thinking about Economics 101.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, Democrats have certainly been talking about it, though, especially elected Democrats. And in terms of past positions that Democrats took in 2020 and whatnot. Over the weekend, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said, quote, Woke One was crazy, when she was asked about those positions. She kind of laughed it off.
New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani, obviously another prominent Democrat, was asked about that comment today, and this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think Woke One was crazy?
MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK STATE: Look, I think that each person has a responsibility to tell New Yorkers, to tell Americans when they're running for office what they believe. And sometimes, what you believe can change, it can develop, it can grow. And I know that there are some for whom they still believe in that. I've made very clear that I do not believe in defunding the police, that I will not be defunding the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Is this a view that you hold about Woke One being crazy, Governor?
MOORE: Well, I'm going to be -- I'm not -- I don't know what Woke One is.
But I can tell you how I lead in Maryland. That, we have made historic investments in our local law enforcement, and also made historic investments in community violence interrupters. That, we have made sure that we're utilizing technologies, and if someone commits a violent crime, particularly with a firearm, we are going to have them in handcuffs in 24 hours.
And I have made sure that people who are returning home from incarceration have a second chance at life. Signed the largest mass pardon, in the history of the United States of America, for misdemeanor cannabis convictions.
And now, in the past three and a half years, in the State of Maryland, the violent crime rate is down nearly 60 percent. It is amongst the fastest drop in the United States of America.
And so, I tell people, we don't -- we don't govern on ideologies. We govern on results, and that's exactly what we're delivering.
COLLINS: Yes because, some people might hear those answers and say, OK, but those were pretty serious policy positions that some Democrats took and championed and turned into slogans in those years, and ask, Just because it's six years later, can you write it off, that easily?
MOORE: Well, I mean, I think that the focus for any leader is not a slogan, or is not an ideology. It's, are you making your communities better? Are you making your communities safer? Are you bringing new jobs inside of your area? And are you not leading on an ideology basis?
Where, I've said we focus on things like permitting reform and regulatory reform, and actually bringing more businesses inside of the State of Maryland. We've added over 60,000 new businesses in the State of Maryland since I've been the governor. And we raised the minimum wage because, people should not be working jobs, and in some cases multiple jobs, and still living at or below a poverty line.
And so, I think the challenge with almost -- with thinking about this from an ideological perspective is, that's oftentimes not where the answer lies. And also, frankly, it's not what the people are demanding.
[21:15:00]
The people are just looking for results. And we are willing to take any type of approach that's going to bring real results to the people of Maryland. And I think candidates who we have seen win all over the country are the ones who are focusing on getting things done and driving real results for the people -- for the people around the country.
COLLINS: You said that the President has had a good year, financially, while Americans have been struggling.
If Democrats win back majority in Washington, this November, as they are obviously trying to do with races, not just winning governors' races, of course, across the country, to take back control that way, but also from these Senate races that we've been watching closely, and House races.
Do you believe that Democrats have a plan to address rising costs and groceries and housing and all of these issues that they're running on right now?
MOORE: I think Democrats do, and I think we're seeing what it looks like.
For example, in the State of Maryland, you know, Maryland became the first state that actually banned predatory pricing and price manipulation, where you have large supermarkets who are using your data against you when you're walking into a supermarket because, they're using algorithms to determine what you will pay and then charging you more so they can create more profit. Maryland banned that.
That, when we saw how we're watching rising energy prices, in my state alone because, of these federal policies on canceling projects, that we've seen energy prices rise over 15 percent in just a year. That, in Maryland, we've put hundreds of dollars back in the pockets of the people of Maryland, $300 million that has now gone back in utility relief.
And so, I think the plan is that we want to move fast, we want to move aggressively, and frankly, we want to be able to combat these type of impacts that we're seeing right now from Donald Trump and Washington D.C.
COLLINS: Governor Wes Moore, thank you for taking the time to join us tonight. We really appreciate it.
MOORE: I really appreciate. Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. One of the most visible members of the Trump administration is leaving the White House this month. Why Karoline Leavitt is stepping down and what her absence could mean this close to the midterm elections.
Plus, we're learning more tonight, new details, about that secret plane switch that President Trump took, including which aides he took with him. I'll speak to two reporters who were on board what they thought was Air Force One, but really was a decoy plane.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, a White House departure is set to leave President Trump without one of his most vocal defenders, 83 days out from the midterm elections.
He announced this afternoon that Karoline Leavitt will step down from her role as the press secretary at the end of the month, calling her one of his, quote, "Most trusted aides," and said that she is leaving, quote, "So she can spend more time with her beautiful young children and family, a decision I totally understand and respect." The President added, quote, "Karoline will now be one of my top outside advisors."
Karoline Leavitt became the youngest White House press secretary ever, when she assumed the role at 27. And during her briefings and her role, often echoed her boss' combative style with reporters when pressed on his policies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The question here is: Is this setting a precedent that this White House will retaliate against reporters who don't use the language that you guys believe reporters should use? And how does that align with the First Amendment commitment that you were just talking about?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I was very upfront in my briefing on day one that if we feel that there are lies being pushed by outlets in this room, we are going to hold those lies accountable.
SHAWN MCCREESH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Why wouldn't Trump just take the call from Putin while the other leaders were in the room? He said it would be disrespectful to do that. But why is it disrespectful?
LEAVITT: With all due respect, only a reporter from The New York Times would ask a question like that.
NATALIE ALLISON, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: What did the President mean when he called a reporter piggy?
LEAVITT: Look, the President is very frank and honest with everyone in this room.
So, I think the President being frank and open and honest to your faces, rather than hiding behind your backs, is frankly a lot more respectful than what you saw in the last administration.
COLLINS: The President has publicly undermined her when it came to Iran. He said she was wrong. He told me that she didn't know what she was talking about.
LEAVITT: No, the--
COLLINS: That was on Air Force One, on camera.
LEAVITT: The only people who are suggesting that the Director of National Intelligence would release evidence to try to boost her standing with the President are the people in this room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: When Karoline Leavitt left the podium for her maternity leave this spring, a revolving door of Trump officials filled in for her, including at one point the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Do they get two questions for these? I thought it was just one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two questions.
RUBIO: There's a lot of people in here, man.
I wish I had like a dice. Go ahead.
No, no, you. The first one I called on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
RUBIO: Thank you.
This is chaos, guys.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Can't be chaotic in there.
Now, Karoline Leavitt had been back at the White House since mid-July, but with a tamped-down presence inside the Briefing Room.
She wrote today, and said, The truth is since returning to the White House after the birth of my daughter, I have felt in my heart that I cannot be the best mom my two young children deserve while devoting the constant time, energy, and attention required of the White House Press Secretary.
My political sources are here tonight, including:
Tad Devine, a Democratic strategist, and the Author of "How the Democrats Screwed Bernie."
Adam Kinzinger, former Republican congressman of Illinois.
And Charlie Dent, former Republican congressman of Pennsylvania.
Adam, what are your thoughts on Karoline Leavitt's departure?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (R) FORMER ILLINOIS CONGRESSMAN: I actually -- look, she was very good at her job. She is very good at her job. Very impressive. I think it takes a toll, having to defend this president all the time. And so, I have no doubt her story that like, look, when you're a mom and you have kids, this is -- working in the White House is very difficult on that. So, I don't think there's anything more to the story besides that.
[21:25:00]
But I think it is going to be a big hit for the Trump administration. I don't know who they replace her with that is going to be as good as she was at it. She had the ability to, in even a couple of your clips, you're like saying obvious truth, and she'll just kind of look at it, like, obfuscate, That's not true, and she had a classy way to do it. So, I think it's going to be a hit for the administration.
COLLINS: I mean, this was probably the toughest role in Trump one, I think. Obviously, we saw the cycle of people who filled this role, Charlie. But when you look at it now, three months ahead of the midterms, less than three months, Iran war, prices, all of these concerns, the President's own poll numbers are pretty bad, especially on areas where he's normally pretty strong, like the economy. What do you make of this?
CHARLIE DENT, (R) FORMER PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESSMAN: Well, I think this job is going to get a lot harder. I was just joking earlier, It's like being the designated spear-catcher, you're going to get a lot thrown at you. And there's -- and it's just going to get harder because if the House flips, the types of inquiries are going to be much more -- much more sharp and piercing. So, I think that it's tough. And I agree with Adam that I think that she was on message, most of
the time, for the President. And I think that was an honest answer she gave. She wants to spend more time with her family. Can't say I blame her.
This is going to become a really difficult job for the next guy.
COLLINS: Well, and I mean obviously the midterm elections. We don't know what's going to happen in them yet. But if it is what you envision there.
Speaking of last night's primaries. We heard from David Crowley at the top of the hour, talking about his own surprise win, and he said he didn't know why the polls were so bad in Wisconsin, last night. They were predicting a Democratic Socialist was potentially going to be your party's nominee for that role. What did you make of that?
TAD DEVINE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, AUTHOR, "HOW THE DEMOCRATS SCREWED BERNIE": Well, the polls being wrong, I'm not surprised. It's very hard to poll in a primary. The number of people you got to call to get into the poll, it's astronomical. And the way the voter files are organized, getting a sample is very, very difficult. So, the polling in primaries is something you really can't rely on for horse race to begin with. I wasn't surprised.
And also, that race, it was like a presidential campaign. Two people drop out after they lose a primary, and there's now instead of six people, there's four. You know?
COLLINS: But also the guy who won the nomination dropped out briefly--
KINZINGER: Yes.
DEVINE: Yes.
COLLINS: --for about 10 days.
DEVINE: Yes, it's crazy. So, I'm not surprised, and I think -- and listen, I think voters in Wisconsin are very serious people. There's a lot of Independents who cross over into the primaries, and I think they were really frightened that we'd get somebody as our nominee who couldn't win the general election, and they voted on it.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, and Tom Tiffany, obviously the Republican in that race, was certainly expecting to have a Francesca Hong to run against, and to look back at her positions that she's held for, that she's called for, including abolishing ICE--
KINZINGER: Thanksgiving.
COLLINS: --canceling Thanksgiving, which she backtracked on later after a few answers.
DEVINE: Right.
COLLINS: What is it like for the Republican now in that race that he's going up against David Crowley?
KINZINGER: I think he's very depressed because he's -- he's not a dynamic person in terms of a politician. And I think Mr. Crowley seems to be very dynamic. So, you're going to have that imbalance.
They clearly -- the Republican Governors Association spent $4 million on her to try to boost her, and they had all their talking points planned for today, and it was going to be all the Thanksgiving stuff. I think the interesting thing--
COLLINS: And he just came out pro-Thanksgiving--
KINZINGER: Yes, he came out--
COLLINS: --among other things.
KINZINGER: That's a good -- that's smart -- that's smart politics.
But I think the interesting thing in this is you see the dynamic between kind of the college-educated liberal Democrats and, like, your old-school blue-collar and African American Democrats who went for Crowley. That's going to be an interesting dynamic in the Democratic Party. And I don't think it's a division. It actually, to me, gives Democrats an opportunity to figure out a message to win back those blue-collar voters that they've been losing to Republicans.
COLLINS: Is that how you see it?
DENT: Yes, pretty much. I mean, it's a gift to the Democrats that Crowley prevailed.
In a year like this, a Republican candidate in a swing state like Michigan (ph) probably wouldn't have much of a chance, just given the political environment being so bad. And so, I suspect Tiffany's going to have a really tough, tough -- tough road to row here. He really would have benefited had Hong won, but he was -- he was saved -- or, I should say, the Democrats were saved in this case. Just like -- like Mike Rogers is in, again, in Michigan right now because they nominated DSA-style candidate.
But again, this is just such a tough year for Republicans. I can't emphasize, when you're looking at the turnouts, ever since Trump won--
COLLINS: Well, turnout for Democrats--
DENT: Yes--
COLLINS: --in this race last night in Wisconsin was exorbitant.
DENT: It's huge. And that's -- but we've seen that since Trump won in 2024 in all these special elections and in the off-year election, that the turnout deficit for Republicans is so great, and that's I think what's really keeps them up at night, going into this midterm. It might tighten a little bit. But boy, oh boy, that's -- I don't know how you make those numbers up.
So, Democrats can nominate some real duds here, and they can still win, just because of these atmospheres.
COLLINS: Yes, we've spent so much time talking about what direction Democrats are taking. I mean, what did you make -- what did you read into that last night?
DEVINE: Well, I think there's real enthusiasm on the Democratic side, but I think people are serious about winning, and I think you can see how fast that electorate moved when they thought there might be a candidate who'd be vulnerable in the general election. And when things opened up very quickly, and I think now we have a very strong candidate. I saw him on TV today; he was making a lot of sense.
[21:30:00]
KINZINGER: Can I make a quick point on that? This is what Democrats do much better than Republicans. Republicans, they always go for the most ideological, and I think it's going to cost them in a huge way soon. Democrats are smart about this.
COLLINS: What did you make of Mike Lindell's loss? Speaking of ideology, last--
KINZINGER: Well, as a guy on the receiving end of the January 6th conspiracies, I could not be happier for him. And it's also ironic that he's out there claiming that everything was stolen. It actually takes away anything from when he's saying that the -- you know, the election was stolen from the President. Clearly, he doesn't trust any election. So sorry, Mr. Lindell. Hopefully, you can get a job back at MyPillow.
COLLINS: Adam Kinzinger. Charlie Dent. Tad Devine. Great to have you on the show tonight.
DEVINE: Good to be with you.
COLLINS: Thank you all for joining.
Up next. We are getting new reporting in tonight from The Washington Post on the bait and switch when it came to Air Force One. My sources tonight were on board the decoy plane that officials thought and feared was facing an Iranian threat as it flew from Turkey to the United Kingdom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Stephen, were you aware the President wasn't on Air Force One on the flight back from Turkey?
Stephen, did you know that you were on the plane that the President was not on?
(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: That was the White House deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, declining to answer questions from reporters today, including mine there, on reporting that was first broken by The Washington Post, and confirmed by President Trump himself last night.
That, an Iranian threat against the President, specifically, intelligence on a potential shoulder-fired missile attack, is what prompted the Secret Service to come up with that ruse at the airport, in Turkey, secretly moving the President off of Air Force One that he had just boarded, onto a catering truck, and then to a military plane that was waiting nearby.
Sources say that several close personal aides joined the President on board that secret military plane, while other Cabinet officials, staffers, members of the Secret Service, the traveling White House press corps, were left on what effectively became a decoy plane.
Sources tell CNN that the President was joined on that secret flight by the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, his Executive assistant, Natalie Harp, the Deputy White House Chief of Staff, Dan Scavino, and his close staffer, Walt Nauta.
While on the decoy Air Force One were Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, and yes, Stephen Miller as well.
My sources tonight were also on board that decoy Air Force One as well, without their knowledge. Reuters White House correspondent Gram Slattery. And AP photojournalist Alex Brandon. Two of my favorite colleagues.
And Gram, when you look at this, in terms of looking back now as to what that flight was like, how is it to read this reporting, to hear the President confirm, yes, he wasn't on the plane that you were on?
GRAM SLATTERY, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS, WAS ON BOARD DECOY AF1 PLANE AMID IRAN THREAT: Well, obviously, it doesn't feel great to be a decoy. I think, as a journalist, we're used to taking risks. We prefer, of course, to know about those risks. We just prefer that the White House be as honest as they can be. And in this situation, obviously, it was only via media reporting that we found out the truth, even in retrospect.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously, when you're boarding Air Force One, when you're in the pool, as it's called, when you get on there, it's fast- moving. You're trying to capture the movements of the president, staff, anything that is out of the ordinary. Did it feel like anything was off at the time, or did it seem like standard operating procedure?
SLATTERY: Oh no, I mean, absolutely.
First of all, this is something we were -- we were attuned to the possibility of Iranian threats because we were in Turkey, ongoing war, country that borders Iran.
However, for instance, once we -- once we were put on the first jet, we were told to close our window panes. I've been on Air Force One, or at least the presidential plane, a number of times, and that was the first time that had ever happened, that immediately caught all of our attention. We thought perhaps, you know, perhaps there's some classified defense technology they're hiding. Obviously, what they were trying to hide was President Trump and some aides going into a catering van.
COLLINS: Yes.
And, Alex, you captured pictures of what happened in that moment. Air Force One, the catering truck that was on the tarmac that night. That obviously, in hindsight, people are looking at very differently now. Did you ever think the President would secretly be inside that catering truck?
ALEX BRANDON, AP PHOTOJOURNALIST, WAS ON BOARD DECOY AF1 PLANE AMID IRAN THREAT: Kaitlan, absolutely not. I mean, you've been in those motorcade movements a lot with us. We've all done this. But in my 20 years of covering presidents for the AP, and 20 years before that, I've never seen a catering truck up against Air Force One. Never.
COLLINS: Yes because, typically, whatever they're transporting around, it's not like a normal aircraft where, as a civilian, you're boarding and they're loading all the food onto the plane from the other side. That's pretty typical when you're getting on a commercial airline. But obviously, when you're dealing with the security that accompanies a sitting president, it's just different when you're loading.
I mean, in terms of what you're hearing now from the President, as how he's answering the questions in that gaggle that night, when he was on the other subsequent Qatari jet coming back to Washington, what stands out to you now, Alex?
[21:40:00]
BRANDON: The question that my colleague brought up about, the window shades is exactly what I'm thinking of. I raised my window shade. We got on the aircraft. And much like a secret trip to Afghanistan, I did in his first administration, in his first trip, the final trip rather, to Afghanistan, they had us with our blinds closed, and I thought it might have been some sort of security thing like that. But that was really out of the ordinary. And combined now with what we know, makes perfect sense.
COLLINS: Well, and I think Alex, the other point of that is some people have said, Well, obviously flying on Air Force One with the President is inherently dangerous because he is a target. That is true, and I think that's fair.
But when reporters typically go to warzones with U.S. presidents, not just Trump, the information is embargoed. They are told where they're going before, or they have a general idea, but they do not report it until they land. And so, that is the difference here: is that you know what you're getting into. And in terms of this situation, the reporters, the Secret Service, a lot of the staff on board did not know. BRANDON: I mean, that's -- that's -- Kaitlan, you're exactly right. I've put myself in harm's way many times. I've been to Mount Everest, I've embedded with special forces in Afghanistan, but I knew those risks going in. It would have been nice to have known going in that this was a possibility. And to have it come out later, it -- I think it stretches the relationship that we have with the White House, as members of the media that cover them on a regular basis.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's a fair point.
And, Gram, Alex, or -- excuse me, Secretary Bessent was speaking with The Des Moines Register today about this, as he was someone who stayed back on the primary plane. He said he believes the person who leaked this story committed treason, and I hope we find out who it is.
Dan Lamothe, who is the reporter, who's the lead reporter who broke this story, I want you to listen to what he told me, on Monday night, when this story came out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN LAMOTHE, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think that the most significant piece here is that for weeks now, the American public talking about the two Air Force One jets, the newer one from Qatar, and the older one from the last couple decades of operations. And in reality, the President was on neither plane. This came to The Post in part because individuals thought that there was a hole in public understanding here that needed to be clarified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Individuals thought there was a hole in public understanding that needed to be clarified, he believes, is what drove this information to come out.
SLATTERY: Yes, well, I mean, one thing that I can certainly say is there's been a complete lack of transparency available to us, available to the public regarding the prosecution of the war and the U.S. relationship with Iran right now. Everything that -- most things that the public knows are the result of the news media doing its job. So, obviously, that's sort of intimidating rhetoric. For journalists that I think are really carrying out a public service, it's simply not, in my opinion, it's not appropriate, and it's certainly not appreciated.
COLLINS: So, you see this as a bigger part of how the White House, how the administration, has handled information on the war generally?
SLATTERY: Absolutely. I mean, basic information isn't available. Sometimes, information that's provided is decontextualized. And national security reporting, that is impactful and important, oftentimes, you're penalized with a subpoena.
COLLINS: Yes.
Gram Slattery. Alex Brandon. It's excellent to have two of my favorites in the White House press corps here. Thank you both for joining us tonight.
Up next. Conservationists and a Republican senator are furious over this border security project that is happening in one of our nation's most treasured areas. My source tonight is the President of the National Parks Conservation Association, on what is happening and what's next at Big Bend.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, there's heavy machinery that is clearing land for President Trump's latest border security project, inside a renowned Texas national park. This week, federal contractors started work inside of Big Bend National Park, and this is all part of a $1.7 billion project to build new security measures in the park that borders Mexico.
CNN was there today, as protesters gathered, and many people who live and work there are furious about this plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are at war with these people. It's a peaceful war, but it's a war, and we are not going to back down. We are going to keep our access. These people -- if you think what you've seen so far is bad, you wait until they unleash holy hell on this place next week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The new construction inside Big Bend even has the Texas Senator, Republican John Cornyn concerned. He's written a new letter to the Department of Homeland Security, where he says that local leaders and park advocates are worried the project could damage the environment, threaten Native American cultural sites, and also hurt tourism, which is a big economic driver there.
With its rugged, mountainous terrain and the desert climate, the area has historically been a low priority for large-scale border barrier projects.
Customs and Border Protection has released this statement to address concerns, saying that CBP is not planning to construct 30-foot high barrier in Big Bend National Park, Big Bend Ranch State Park, or the Black Gap Wildlife Management Area. They say that they are planning for approximately 200 miles of patrol roads and detection technology.
[21:50:00]
My source tonight is Tiernan Sittenfeld, who is the President and CEO of the National Parks Conservation Association.
And thank you for being here.
Do you believe that CBP statement that we just read? TIERNAN SITTENFELD, PRESIDENT & CEO, NATIONAL PARKS CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION: Well, Kaitlan, thanks for having me and thanks for covering this.
This is incredibly disturbing and so concerning. And I think the fact that we are seeing such widespread, deep bipartisan opposition to this destruction to one of our most iconic national parks tells you everything that you need to know. This threat is completely unacceptable.
This is such a special place, one of our most amazing national parks that people flock to, from across the country and, really, across the world, for the recreational opportunities, for the beauty, for the Rio Grande, for the mountains, for the desert landscape, the wildlife.
And the images that you're showing are incredibly disturbing. So, we absolutely need to stop this destruction. We cannot let it get any worse. We need the Trump administration to stop this, and we need Congress to step in and ensure that they do.
COLLINS: Given, I mean, we're seeing so much of this happen right now. What is your biggest concern tonight?
SITTENFELD: Well, I mean, some of the footage that we're seeing is really devastating. We are literally seeing wildlife fleeing from bulldozers. We are seeing sensitive river ecosystems being threatened.
This is a place that generates millions and millions of dollars in tourism and outdoor industry. That's why we're seeing local sheriffs, judges, landowners, small businesses, conservationists, Senator Cornyn, a conservative Republican senator from Texas, all coming together and saying, Enough is enough. This destruction has to stop. We must protect Big Bend. We must protect all of our national parks.
COLLINS: Yes, I think when you see the anger that it's prompted, obviously among people who were there protesting. But that it's even warranted John Cornyn writing this letter to Markwayne Mullin, at the Department of Homeland Security. It raises questions about what they're doing there in terms of the CBP statement, where they say they're not building a 30-foot wall, but they're building roads and other security technology.
Do you think you have a clear view of what exactly they are doing here?
SITTENFELD: I think we're seeing a lot of harm on the ground today. That's why you're seeing people out there protesting. That's why we need -- that's why we are so glad to see Senator Cornyn's letter saying that this needs to stop.
But it is why we need even more people standing up and protecting Big Bend, and protecting our parks. Because, this is such a special place that, again, is so important to Texans, for our economy, for our way of life, for the wildlife. And so, we need to do more. This is a pretty urgent situation, and that's why we're really glad to see Senator Cornyn step up and say it needs to stop. COLLINS: If you had a final message to the administration about what's happening on the ground, what would you say?
SITTENFELD: I would say that our parks are at the core of what is best about this country. They bring us together across differences. They get us off our phones. They get us outside. Big Bend is such a national treasure, and it, like all parks across the country, needs to be protected for today and for tomorrow, for many, many decades to come. These parks are forever, and we don't get them back when we do harm like this.
COLLINS: Tiernan Sittenfeld. We will be following this closely. And I'm grateful for you for joining us tonight. So, thank you.
SITTENFELD: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. It is time for Source Code here. We give you a number at the center of a story that's in the news. Can you figure out what the story is? Tonight's Source Code is 12.5 billion. We'll be back in just a moment.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is $12.5 billion. That's because that's the record-breaking price that the LA Lakers are being sold for, and the buyers are former Disney CEO, Bob Iger, and venture capitalist, Josh Kushner, who, of course, as you can tell by his last name, is the brother of President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner.
A source tells CNN that this deal came together very quickly in just the last couple of days, and if it's approved by the NBA's Board of Governors, they would oversee one of the most prestigious assets in all of sports. The Lakers have won 17 NBA championships, with their most recent title happening six years ago.
And Bob Iger and Josh Kushner put out a statement tonight saying, quote, "As lifelong NBA fans, we are deeply honored for the opportunity to become stewards of the Los Angeles Lakers, one of the most iconic sports franchises in the world... Our long-term commitment is to build on that foundation, compete at the highest level, and serve this extraordinary team, its fans, and the city of Los Angeles."
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight.
If you missed any of the show, it's available, as always, on demand to subscribers on the CNN app. You can also check out the podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter @kaitlancollins, where I'm always posting all of our latest reporting throughout the day, before we join you here at 9 o'clock p.m. Eastern at night.
Thank you so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts right now. [22:00:00]
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT: Tonight. Thanksgiving lives to see another year. Why the cold turkey may be a lesson for the left to save their midterms--
