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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

War Trump Said Would Last Four To Six Weeks Hits Six-Month Mark; WaPo: White House Likely Overstating Progress On Ballroom; Lindsay Clancy Trial: No Verdict Yet, Jury Asks To Review Evidence. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired August 28, 2026 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. Real wars and trade wars: the headwinds Republicans are facing ahead of the midterms, and how the President may be making them stronger.

I'm Dana Bash, in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

Tonight, the war President Trump said would last four to six weeks has reached six months, and the President now says he's in no hurry to get back to the negotiating table with Iran.

Here at home, the midterms are just around the corner. Only a handful of primaries remain. And voters go to the polls in less than 10 weeks. Majorities in both chambers of Congress hang in the balance, and Democrats clearly think momentum is on their side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This November, the first of many tides is coming, coming to respond to every right they are trying to take.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Now it is our turn.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Win the week, win the month, win the year, win the hearts and minds of the American people, and then on November 3rd, win back control of the United States House of Representatives, so we can end this national nightmare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: The President sometimes sounds resigned to his party losing control, or at least, if they do lose control, it's not his fault; it's theirs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Even if you have a good president who's done a good job, they always lose the midterms.

The president in power always loses. It's the craziest thing.

I mean, they're angry at Republicans. But they're not angry at me.

JAKE SHERMAN, FOUNDER, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: That's an interesting -- why though?

TRUMP: They're not angry at me, but they are angry at Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: It leaves Republicans facing very tough next 67 days. Many of the issues that they rode to victory on, in the past few cycles, are now working against them, like foreign policy and the repeated promise from their party's leader that may come back to haunt them on November 3rd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We projected four to five weeks.

This is a short excursion.

It'll be soon. Won't be long.

Most of the points are already negotiated and agreed to.

We're very close to making a deal.

We're going to end that war very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Heard that a lot over the last six months. Now we're hearing versions of this, like after a recent primary Election Night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't care about the midterms. Look what happened last night. That was the prelude to the midterms. People understand it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And then there's the issue that helped propel Trump back into the White House, one very much impacted by the Iran war, and that is the economy.

Today, the President's handpicked new Fed chair delivered an assessment no Republican wants to hear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN WARSH, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: I believe the labor markets are broadly consistent with full employment. But on the price stability side of our mandate, the numbers are more concerning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Translation: Inflation remains a problem. And that's before you factor in the President's latest tariff moves that some Republican lawmakers, prominent ones, have publicly criticized, and that's because voters know what things cost, no matter how many times the President insists inflation is over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Inflation is defeated.

We have very low inflation. We brought inflation way down.

The hottest country anywhere in the world by far with no inflation.

Inflation has been defeated.

Inflation has been defeated.

Inflation has been defeated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: President Trump returned to Washington tonight, following a two- day visit to Texas. He'll be back there in a couple of weeks for a midterm convention-style rally that some are calling Trump-a-palooza.

Republicans are hoping for a jolt to energize GOP voters, but some party sources tell CNN they're privately questioning whether the whole thing is a good idea, worried it will be more about promoting the President than the candidates who are actually on the ballot.

But, that increasingly seems to be exactly the President's strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: There's a theory that I get the vote. You know, this -- I see it all the time that when Trump's on the ballot, they win. When he's not on the ballot, that people don't go to vote.

I'm asking the people to get out and vote. Pretend I'm on the ballot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:05:00]

BASH: House Speaker, Mike Johnson, also traveled to Texas this week to shore up House GOP candidates in surprisingly competitive races, despite Texas redrawing the map to help Republicans there. He seems on board with the all-about-the-President convention strategy. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The President's going to look right into the camera and say, I am on the ballot. OK? Because even though his name isn't, right? His administration, his legacy, the American First agenda is. We got to get people to turn out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: A lot to discuss. Tonight. Joining me are:

CNN Political Commentator, and former senior adviser to the Hillary Clinton campaign, Karen Finney.

Former Obama campaign adviser, Ameshia Cross -- Cross rather.

And our own CNN Senior Political Commentator, former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.

David, it's interesting. I was thinking about this tonight and this idea of what they're trying to do, pretend Trump is on the ballot and about you helping to -- helping to win Pennsylvania, your home state--

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, sure.

BASH: --for him back in -- back in 2016.

URBAN: Just I'm at -- 38 years in case anyone is remembering.

BASH: I remember. And you did it--

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: --or he did it in large part by finding voters that you never even knew existed. So, the challenge now is to find those voters again and to remind them to go out and vote. That's clearly what this strategy is. Is it going to work when he's not really on the ballot?

URBAN: Yes, look, so in some places yes, some places no. You're not going to find new voters, right? I don't think that's going to be possible, especially in the midterms, and not with the economics situation like it is.

But what I do think is important is in, in places like Texas, in certain places that are -- that lean more red, right? It's all about voter turnout, right? We need to turn out the base. And despite Donald Trump's low numbers, generally he's still in the 80s with the base, right?

And so, it's about turning out the base in places like Texas. They'll turn out. You're going to have 20,000 people in the American Airlines arena on those two nights, on the 9th and 10th. They'll be energized in Texas. They'll be fired up.

And so, you know, and Texas should be an easy layup, right? But every year, every election cycle--

BASH: For Republicans.

URBAN: Republicans. It should be -- it should be--

BASH: Yes.

URBAN: --right, should be kind of a layup, right? It's a pretty red state. But every cycle, Democrats put up candidates and they make a run at it. I don't think that this is the particular candidate that's going to take the cake this time. I mean, you need, in my opinion, more of a blue dog in that state to win.

But listen, Trump will get the base out. That's going to be very effective in that state. You're not going to see him in Michigan. You're not going to see him in Maine, right? You're not going to see him campaigning there, North Carolina. He--

BASH: Although he's been invited to New York--

URBAN: Well--

BASH: Mike Lawler's district--

URBAN: Yes. Well--

AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER: He's--

BASH: --who is in a very competitive district for the--

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: --for the same reason.

URBAN: Listen, the SALT rollback was great for Mike Lawler.

BASH: Right.

URBAN: But some of these places -- I think you'll see him in Iowa, right? You'll see him in Nebraska. A lot of places -- like, Nebraska is a tough state right now. A lot of places you'll see the President turn out. He'll show up in Florida and other places. Because it is. And these ladies know, they'll tell you. Election -- these midterms, you know, people got to -- it's about turn out the base. That's who shows up: super voters, and you got to get the -- these Trump voters will show up for Donald Trump.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SR. ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Although, just on Iowa, let's remember, Politico had an interesting report this week on they're trying to -- one of the strategies is fan out the Cabinet secretaries to try to tout the record. Brooke Rollins had a rough trip to Iowa this week because, oh, guess what? Beef.

URBAN: Beef. FINNEY: Where's the beef, right? So, ranchers aren't happy, farmers aren't happy because of the Iran war. So it's -- I think it's more of a mixed bag. David's job is to put the best bow on it that he can, but it's a much more mixed bag.

And actually, Democrats are perfectly fine. People want to vote based on their feelings about Donald Trump? Let me tell you, that is a good thing for us because poll after poll is showing, people are angry at him for a -- the second time in, I think, my time in politics. First one was 2017, the last time he was president.

Democrats actually enjoy an advantage on the economy, whereas historically that and national security have been two areas where we haven't had the same kind of advantage. National security is another place where he's waning because people are angry about the war. So, I think it's a mixed bag for Trump.

I mean, look, we're feeling good. But part of the reason you saw Democrats on the Mall today, at the March on Washington anniversary, was to remind us that we got a lot of fighting to do--

BASH: Yes.

FINNEY: --between now and Election Day.

BASH: And then sort of the flip side is what Republicans -- I played a little bit of what Mike Johnson said this week about the convention. But he also is helping to hone the Republicans' message against Democrats. Listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: I want you to imagine a nightmare scenario with these insurgent Marxist Democrats taking over the Congress. They would impeach the President on the first day. They've already said what they're going to do. They'll convert every committee of Congress into an investigative body. They'll spend every waking hour investigating the President and his family and the Cabinet and going on this lawfare exercise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:10:00]

CROSS: I just find that really rich, considering that Trump spent a considerable amount of time in office going after his enemies. He was on a vengeance tour. Still happens to be in many ways.

The Democrats have every right to go after certain investigations, particularly those that we know have cost American taxpayers millions above millions of dollars. In addition to the lead up to a war that none of us can really figure out why we got in in the first place.

But beyond that, I do think that there is a real fear from Republicans about how this this midterm-a-palooza could show up in Texas, in large part because the President has shown that he is only vested interest in himself, not in sustaining the Republican Party, not in any wins in these midterms in a really real way.

We just saw him give loads of money in the South Carolina race, which wasn't one that was actually in contention for a lot of reasons. But in some of the tighter races for Republicans, he has yet to give anything.

I do think that his calculus here is problematic for Republicans, but there are several gains Democrats are going to have, in large part because of what the economy looks like for people's personal economies. Rent keeps getting higher, the unemployment rate and underemployment rate continues to grow. If anybody's been on LinkedIn lately, you can't help but see those ready-to-work signs. In addition to a president who continues to say that the economy is better than it is, he doesn't want to talk about affordability. He wants to talk about trans and sports and any culture war issue that comes to mind, but continues to avoid what matters to the American people.

URBAN: Yes, I'd just -- I'd just say two quick points.

BASH: Yes.

URBAN: Our own -- the last polling that we did here at CNN, at the end of July, Trump's numbers suck. But you know whose numbers suck worse? Democrats. Chuck Schumer is like 12 percent, Democrats -- Trump was like 38, Democrats generic were 31.

Orange man bad. Democrats have tried to run on that for every time since Trump's been around. Orange man bad doesn't win, right? Need to put forward a positive message. And so, Hakeem Jeffries, I see him out trying to do that. Right? There's not a consistent message, right? Because--

FINNEY: Well, it's actually not true.

URBAN: I don't say it, well--

FINNEY: Our candidates are very consistently running. And they're calling it different things, like in Mary Peltola, I think it's fish, face, family is her, but she's talking about affordability. I mean, fish -- that is a -- it is a big issue, fish, in--

URBAN: Yes.

FINNEY: --in Alaska. Then you've got in North Carolina, you've got our Senate candidate there, again, talking about affordability on a bus tour. So, they're very laser-focused.

I think part of the reason, and actually something you said earlier, David. In Florida, we've got candidate, Angie Nixon. She's actually turning out new young voters. Same thing with James Talarico. We're seeing that in Texas. Why? Because they are speaking to what people are feeling--

URBAN: Yes--

FINNEY: --to the anger that they feel, and they're actually generating the kind of excitement you don't see normally in a midterm year.

BASH: Can I--

URBAN: Yes, look, look -- oh, I'm sorry.

BASH: No, I was going to say, I really want to talk for a minute about the Iran war because today is the six-month mark.

David, listen to what Senator John Kennedy said, floating an idea of just leaving.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): It would certainly be an option at some point, now that we've accomplished most of our goals, for us to come home.

Now, people will say -- some people will say -- the President's critics will say, But the Strait of Hormuz is closed.

Well, Trump didn't close it. Iran closed it. And if I'm China, or Japan, or South Korea, or Europe, or Canada, and I depend on the Strait for my oil, at that point they would have to help. They'd have to do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

URBAN: Yes, look, I mean, Senator Kennedy is a bright guy. I'm not sure that's a great option. I'm not sure walking out of Iran throwing up hands (ph) because the Iranians have a vote in this, right? And they clearly don't care. They clearly don't care about anything.

This is the problem when you're trying to deal with a regime that has, for the past 50 years -- you know, they really mean it when they say, Death to America, right? They want to end the West as we know it. They're not someone who's going to sit down and negotiate in good faith and then forget like everything that's happened in the past. They really want to end our culture and Western civilization as we know. And so, sitting down to try to say like, Let's cut a deal somehow with them, is, I think, a fool's errand.

FINNEY: But they're not going to -- they also recognize that politically, it is better for them to keep this going. Now that we're so close to the midterm election, they're not going to -- there's no negotiation that's going to happen--

CROSS: They can -- well they can wait this thing on out--

(CROSSTALK)

CROSS: And there was never a real plan for an end to that negotiation--

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: But -- but there is -- but there isn't going to be -- they're going to keep going. Past the -- past the elections, past that--

FINNEY: Sure.

URBAN: --they'll just keep going forever, right? Because--

FINNEY: But he's the one who suffers politically is the point.

CROSS: The--

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Oh yes, I don't -- I don't disagree that the Republicans suffer more than Democrats in this situation.

The sad part about all this, right, is I wish that the President, as I said this many times before, had gone to the American people, had gone to our allies, and said, Listen, this is a bad actor. This state's a bad actor. We need to do something about this--

FINNEY: Yes--

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: --Build a Coalition of the Willing, like George Bush did in the first Gulf War, and then gone out and said the American people were going to suffer for a year or two. But we can't have this -- we cannot have this regime in existence for the next 50 years because they will, at some point, have a nuclear weapon. They will try to export it to the United States. They will continue to do horrible things all across the world. We just can't have that.

BASH: David. Ameshia. Karen. Thank you so much for coming in on this beautiful Friday night.

CROSS: Thanks.

[21:15:00]

BASH: And tonight, there is new reporting from the Associated Press that the FBI is changing how it screens some job applicants.

According to the AP, past experiences with prostitution will no longer automatically disqualify every candidate. The Bureau will now look at some cases more holistically, weighing the context instead of imposing a blanket ban.

I should note, CNN has not yet confirmed this reporting.

There are still major limits, the AP reports. Applicants can still be rejected if the conduct happened within the last 10 years, happened three or more times, or occurred while they were in a position of trust, like public safety.

In a statement to the AP, the FBI says: It is false to suggest criminal behavior like this is no longer disqualifying at the FBI. Any applicant who has engaged in criminal sexual acts like those referenced would of course not be eligible for employment, and it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. The FBI has and always will maintain some of the highest suitability standards for its applicants and employees in the US Government.

The FBI also insists its background checks will remain wide-ranging and extensive.

I want to bring in Andrew McCabe, CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst and former FBI Director.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: I don't think so--

BASH: Andy, can you hear me?

MCCABE: I can, yes. Thanks.

BASH: OK, good.

So, first of all, just broadly, what do you think about this report? As somebody who worked at the FBI for as long as you did. And more specifically, what would it say about the ability to attract the kind of FBI agents and employees that you have seen over the last decades at the Bureau.

MCCABE: Yes, Dana, the reporting is confounding on many levels, and I think it raises that question in your mind, like why would they make this change?

So, let's remember that engaging in prostitution or supporting prostitution -- prostitution is illegal in every state. So, we're talking about committing a crime. It's also the sort of activity that makes you more vulnerable to coercion or manipulation by criminal actors or foreign adversaries.

So, there is a very serious security reason why you don't want to hire people who have done things in their background, like violated the law, committed crimes, committed sexual offenses, that they would prefer the rest of the world not to know about. Right? Things that you want to hide make you more vulnerable.

So, there are many good reasons to exclude applicants on these grounds. So, the question becomes: Why are they lowering this standard now? I don't know that we have a clear answer to that. But one reason might be that they're really struggling to recruit people.

Maybe they have fired so many people, and lost so many people through attrition, over the last year, that they're struggling on the hiring side. That's hard to imagine because we've always had a wealth of candidates. Or maybe they're trying to create a pathway for people who traditionally have not been able to get into the FBI to be able to get in, which raises its own concerns.

BASH: Right, or both. Now the FBI points out that some qualified applicants, like military service members may have done this legally overseas or were victims of abuse themselves. Could this be considered sort of a pragmatic modernization of the way the FBI recruits?

MCCABE: I'm sorry, Dana. I didn't hear that. I'm getting something else through the earpiece.

BASH: That's OK. What the FBI -- excuse me -- what the AP is reporting is that perhaps they could be excluding members of the military who engaged in prostitution or used prostitutes when they were abroad, serving overseas, where it is not illegal. So, I'm just kind of trying to find a devil's-advocate question here. In that, could it be that if this changes, in fact, it could be a way for them to try to modernize some of the way that they recruit?

MCCABE: I think that's a fair question, but I would respond to it by saying that the FBI has never had a problem recruiting the highest quality military candidates for jobs, for special agent jobs, for analyst jobs, across the organization. So, if we're trying to -- where it seems like we -- if that's the reason, then we're trying to fix a problem that really isn't broken.

[21:20:00]

I would also add that the Department of Justice has forbidden, for many, many years, DOJ or FBI employers or any other employee of any other DOJ component, to engage in prostitution or supporting prostitution, even overseas in places where it is legal. So, this is a -- it is -- in addition to being a security issue, it's a standard of character. You don't -- you want to build a cohort of people who uphold a particular standard of conduct and character, and it seems like a reasonable place to draw that line.

BASH: Andrew McCabe, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

MCCABE: Thank you.

BASH: And up next. The latest on President Trump's construction projects in the nation's capital. There's new CNN reporting on the proposed triumphal arch on the banks of the Potomac.

Plus, the White House says in court, construction of the President's new ballroom is mostly done. My source tonight has new reporting for The Washington Post that suggests otherwise.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:25:00]

BASH: Tonight, a new government report says President Trump's proposed 250-foot triumphal arch would have negative effects on dozens of historic landmarks in Washington. That includes changing iconic views around the monuments and disrupting the design of some of the capital's most recognizable spaces.

But the National Park Service says the arch still has to stay exactly where Trump wants it, along the Potomac. Because, moving it elsewhere would make it a different commemorative project entirely. There are also new questions about the Trump administration's claim in court that the White House ballroom project is already 65 percent complete. Documents reviewed by The Washington Post suggests that number may not add up.

My source tonight is Sarah Blaskey, one of the investigative reporters at The Washington Post, who broke the story.

Thank you so much for being here.

It's really fascinating reporting and lots of questions about it. First of all, the administration told the Supreme Court that the project was 65 percent complete. Your reporting says that's not true, based on the documents you reviewed.

Explain.

SARAH BLASKEY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: The document primarily that we reviewed is the contract between the general contractor and the Trump administration, and it's for the ballroom project.

And that contract gives us a blueprint for how to measure percentage completion. And it says, the total dollar amount that has been paid out to date, compared to the total estimated dollar amount of the project, is how you're going to determine percentage completion.

And when we use that metric, laid out in their own contract and budgeting documents that show the expenditures, we see that the project is, by their own metric, between 25 and 33 percent complete, which is a very different number than the 65 percent that they did claim to the Supreme Court.

BASH: Is it possible at all that they're ahead of schedule? Or would that not make sense given the fact that they haven't paid out the money that would support the construction?

BLASKEY: So we were, as experts described it, generous in our calculation. We were actually using dollars that they plan to spend, imminently, not just dollars that they had actually paid out. And so, these dovetail perfectly with work orders. And so, work can't start without these payments being authorized. And so, theoretically, no, these should go in lockstep. They should be one and the same.

Is there a possibility that they're doing something that is maybe not exactly as their contract specifies? Sure. But if they are following the language of their contract, then this should match perfectly onto how much work has been done and the percentage complete.

BASH: How significant is that 65 percent figure?

BLASKEY: This is an incredibly significant argument that they are making in front of the Supreme Court. It is one of their primary justifications for why the Supreme Court should allow construction to continue. That's the entire thing that the court is deciding right now. They're saying, construction has gone too far. We are too far along in this project. We are 65 percent complete, and therefore you should allow us to continue because, it's too late to turn back now. Is basically their argument.

They've made some other arguments about national security and that kind of thing. But this argument, the 65 percent is central to one of their primary arguments to the Supreme Court.

BASH: The White House says this is privately funded, and the military is funding the security arrangements, and he's calling it a military complex.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm going to be walking down here in about two minutes to meet with the people that are building the heliport, and you'll see right alongside of it the great structure that's rising right next to the White House, and that's going to be the ballroom/military complex. It's incredible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Your reporting points to money tied to parts of the project that comes from tax dollars. Why is that significant? What's the distinction that matters?

BLASKEY: When the President first announced this project, last year, it was very clear this project would be paid for by donors, and -- but internally, documents, budget documents that the White House had showed, that about half was actually coming from taxpayers.

[21:30:00]

Now this project is not just the ballroom; it's the ballroom plus office space plus a colonnade plus a below-grade military complex that we've been told will include some sort of medical facility. All of that together is what the White House is referring to as the East Wing Modernization Project.

What we've learned is that as of March, that project was estimated to cost $600 million, with $300 million of that coming from U.S. taxpayers through the U.S. Secret Service and the White House Military Office budgets.

BASH: Meaning that -- what does that tell us about the promise to use private donors to spend money on this giant project versus tax dollars?

BLASKEY: So, the administration has been careful to say that the ballroom part of this project is being funded by donors, and the rest of the project, there might be -- they've admitted, might have some taxpayer dollars as part of it. And so, if you notice they've been very careful about whether they say project, as in the entirety, versus ballroom, and I think -- I think that might be a distinction that the administration is trying to make when they're saying that some of it will be funded by donors and some of it not.

But at the end of the day, the administration is also calling this one contiguous structure. They've made this claim repeatedly in court. They've said, you can't disentangle one part from the other. So, at the end of the day, half of this structure, this new East Wing, is being paid for by taxpayers, according to these documents that we've reviewed.

BASH: Sarah Blaskey, good old-fashioned shoe-leather reporting. Thanks for bringing it to us. I appreciate it.

BLASKEY: Thank you.

BASH: And up next. Jurors in the Lindsay Clancy trial will continue deliberations next week after asking today to see key evidence from the case. My legal sources are here to discuss what the jury might be thinking about over the weekend.

[21:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Tonight, the jury in the Lindsay Clancy triple murder trial is back home and will return Monday to continue deliberations.

The courtroom today was packed with reporters and members of the public, including several women wearing pink, presumably in support of the defendant, all waiting for a verdict.

Clancy is accused of strangling her three young children to death. She has pleaded not guilty. But both prosecutors and the defense agree that Clancy killed her children. But where they differ is whether she did so intentionally and rationally.

The defense argues that Clancy suffered from postpartum psychosis that spiraled out of control, and now the jury will decide if she is criminally responsible. Today, they asked to see two key pieces of evidence at the center of the case: Clancy's prescription pill bottles and the kitchen knife she used to cut her own wrists and neck, the night she killed her children.

My legal sources tonight are attorneys, Areva Martin and Mark O'Mara.

Along with my medical source, Dr. Susan Hatters Friedman, Director of Forensic Psychiatry -- excuse me -- Psychiatry at University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center. Forgive me.

And thank you all for being here.

Mark, I do want to start with what you think the jurors were kind of going through and deliberating on when they ask for those specific pieces of evidence.

MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: First of all, I do not like the fact that they're not deliberating over the weekend. I don't like the fact that jurors now have two days to sort of think this over and to not be together. That's very troubling to me.

But what were they thinking about? So, in one simple sense, they've got to decide how much of this emotion-packed case they're going to decide for or against mom, right?

So, I guess if they're looking at it, particularly the knife. In an outrageous sense, if it was a butter knife that she used, and I think that they will think it was just pretense. If it was a stiletto or a steak knife, then it might give more credibility to the real intent to commit suicide. So, I guess they're looking at that.

Pill bottle is similar. They may be looking at the number of pills in the bottle. They may be looking at the dates on them. All that was sort of testified to.

But if we try and give some insight, which is so difficult, some insight to what these jurors are thinking, those two items seem to suggest they're looking towards the psychosis, right? The true, sincere attempt to commit suicide, and the pills themselves.

BASH: And Areva, the jury deliberated for about 10 hours or so until they actually left for the weekend. As Mark was just talking about. These are charges that they have to consider, and the varying degrees of punishment are pretty vast. Whether or not they can find her not criminally responsible. How hard do you think it'll be for them to reach a unanimous decision?

AREVA MARTIN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: This is going to be a really difficult case, Dana.

And I think the questions that were asked for today, to examine those two pieces of evidence, tells us that this is a jury that's really digging into this physical evidence. This is not a jury that said, Look, she killed her three kids, tried to commit suicide, let's convict her of murder. They could have made that decision within one hour. So, we know that they did not buy wholesale the prosecution's case.

[21:40:00]

Now, it's not to say that they won't come back with a guilty verdict. But it is clear that they are grappling with the postpartum psychosis, of whether she had the ability to separate or distinguish right from wrong and to make the kind of decision that would hold her criminally responsible, since there's no doubt that she killed her three children.

BASH: And Dr. Hatters Friedman, you study postpartum mental illness. And one of your mentors actually testified for the defense during this trial, arguing, Clancy suffered from postpartum psychosis. For people who don't know, what exactly is postpartum psychosis?

DR. SUSAN HATTERS FRIEDMAN, DIRECTOR, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY AT UH CLEVELAND MEDICAL CENTER, FORMER PRESIDENT, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PSYCHIATRY AND THE LAW, FORENSIC AND REPRODUCTIVE PSYCHIATRIST: Sure.

Postpartum psychosis is -- it occurs in the postpartum period, usually in the first couple weeks postpartum, after a woman's given birth, though it can be later in that period. And when I'm teaching our trainees, I talk about it being one of the scariest mental illnesses that they'll see because of the range of symptoms that moms can get, and very quickly, in comparison to other mental illnesses.

So, the symptoms of psychosis, which generally means being out of touch with reality, can include hallucinations, hearing voices, seeing visions, can include delusions, fixed false beliefs that are not consistent with the person's culture. So, paranoid beliefs, beliefs in unusual things that relate to their children, often, as well as mood issues, mood swings, insomnia, confusion. And so, as you're hearing all of those symptoms, we worry about risk, risk of suicide, risk of homicide, risk of difficulty caring for the baby.

BASH: And it is, Doctor, staying with you, one of the many reasons this case has been -- has touched a nerve in many different ways, in many different directions. But with women, we mentioned that there were women in the courtroom wearing pink.

Postpartum depression or even psychosis has been something that has happened probably since the beginning of time, but has not been talked about. This is a very extreme, horrible case of it. The fact that the testimony on both sides is shaping not just the jury's but the public's understanding of this illness. What does that tell you, given that this is something that you study and that you teach about?

HATTERS FRIEDMAN: Sure.

And you're right. It's actually been described since the time of Hippocrates. It's something that is not really in the public consciousness that much, and then people are hearing about it, often for the first time, during this case, or during the Andrea Yates case.

And so, there is this lack of understanding in the community about this disorder. And it's something that I'm thinking about too. As the jury is going to be doing these deliberations, what is their knowledge based about this illness that many people haven't heard of before the trial?

BASH: And Areva, the jury is made up of nine women and three men. The foreperson is a woman. How do you think that plays into the jury weighing this case?

MARTIN: I think that could be a real problem for the prosecution. As you've pointed out, Dana. Women, not just in the courtroom today, but women throughout this trial, have been standing outside this courtroom expressing their support for Lindsay Clancy. There have been women, hundreds, if not thousands, of women online doing the same. And then we heard that powerful testimony from her own mother-in-law, about the kind of state that she was in, the mental crisis that she was going through, and how she was seeking help, but she was not getting the help, and her condition was continuing to deteriorate.

And I think so many women feel like postpartum depression, postpartum mental illness, postpartum psychosis is not very well-understood by this country and not recognized, and women who suffer, in the way Lindsay did, don't get the kind of help they need, and that's been a big part of the defense's case. Basically, they've said she got lousy medical care, and we're here not because of Lindsay Clancy, but because of the failure of our health care system to treat her very serious mental health issues.

BASH: And Mark, going back to what you said at the beginning of this conversation. As Clancy's lawyer left, he said that she's nervous and scared, now that her fate is in the jury's hands. The fact that the jury is out until Monday, which I know you said is terrible. How do you think that's going to impact the decision?

O'MARA: Well, we hope it doesn't.

But here's the problem: we tell the jurors, do not look at anything yourself. Do no research, talk to nobody about it. But unfortunately, 72 hours, 48 hours of being outside the purview of the judge and the control of the judge is very scary. It's very dangerous. Because the internet is so available to us. You have one phone -- one phone with you, and you start looking at anything, it could impact the decision.

[21:45:00]

Particularly, if now the jurors have spoken a bit, they've deliberated and they have questions. Right? That even increases the curiosity. A question about the knife, a question about the pills, a question about psychosis, a question about how she acted. And anyone who infects the deliberations now with any type of thing -- on the outside could really destroy the verdict.

I say, again, that judge should have kept them sequestered and should have kept them deliberating this weekend. That's what they're there for. They don't need to take the weekend off.

BASH: All right. Mark. Areva. Doctor. Thank you all for being here. I really appreciate it.

HATTERS FRIEDMAN: Thank you.

BASH: And up next. Kaitlan takes us behind the scenes this week here in Washington.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: The White House fight to restrict mail-in ballots, the passing of an American icon, and the President's new name for a Great Lake. Here's a look at what Kaitlan saw behind the scenes in Washington this week. [21:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: We're systematically ending every single one of these radical- left betrayals.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, August 24.

TRUMP: The great structure that's rising right next to the White House, and that's going to be the ballroom/military complex.

LINDA MCMAHON, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: We're embracing AI, but it has to have guardrails.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Secretary McMahon.

MCMAHON: Thank you all.

COLLINS: See you tomorrow.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR/SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: The United States Supreme Court just granted the President permission to implement his executive order overhauling and restricting the mail-in ballot system.

COLLINS: Provisions of this can be carried out. It doesn't mean they will because, obviously, we do anticipate further legal challenges.

Even though the White House, they are viewing it as a win, but it's still a big question mark over what this is going to look like when we're getting this close to the midterm elections.

President Trump just hit with 50 percent tariffs on roughly $20 billion of Canadian goods.

DOMINIC LEBLANC, CANADA'S U.S. TRADE MINISTER: It's a tough moment for Canadians.

COLLINS: Carney here is doing something that a lot of other countries have not. Going head to head with the President.

He's now saying he's going to match the U.S. tariffs, dollar for dollar. Can Canada afford that?

LEBLANC: We cannot afford not to protect Canadian workers and Canadian businesses.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, August 25.

COLLINS: Rarely, if ever, do politicians seem to agree on anything these days, much less anyone. But following the death of Dolly Parton at the age of 80, the tributes are pouring in for the country queen and philanthropists from across the political spectrum. From here at the White House, where President Trump said he was lowering the flags to half-staff after learning about her death. To New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani. One thing is clear today: Dolly Parton is someone whose impact was felt far from her hometown in Tennessee, to Washington and beyond.

She has been such an advocate for the LGBTQ community and for her fans.

MELISSA ETHERIDGE, GRAMMY & ACADEMY AWARD-WINNING MUSICIAN/ARTIST: You can just imagine how many lives she saved. Young boys and girls were in their room going, Hey, Dolly doesn't judge me. Dolly wants me to be just who I am, and she's just who she is.

That's all you have to do to change the world.

In the last 10 years, she was able to reach across, was beloved by every walk of person internationally. What an amazing woman this was on every front.

Keep up the good work. We love you.

COLLINS: Thank you.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, August 26.

TRUMP: She was amazing. And to lose her, it's like you lose a member of the family. You know, we all knew her so well. I knew her a little bit. She wasn't a very political person. She really liked me.

GLENN BECK, CEO, BLAZE MEDIA: Yes.

TRUMP: She was also of the opinion -- you know, the 50 percent, who needs to lose? I don't think it's 50, I think it's probably 20 percent of the fans, OK? Not 50.

I liked her a lot.

BECK: She's remarkable.

TRUMP: And I thought it was a natural thing to lower the flags.

BECK: Yes.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, August 27.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, SPOKESPERSON AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'll miss you guys. Obviously, it's been great working with all of you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bye, Karoline.

TRUMP: We're going to be changing the name of Lake Ontario, effective immediately, to Lake America.

COLLINS: The Gulf of Mexico, the Kennedy Center, and now Lake Ontario? Even as the war with Iran is very much still grinding on, and as Americans are finding it more difficult to pay for food, gas, and housing.

What do you make of how much headspace this takes up?

MITCH LANDRIEU, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: Right now, the President's raising costs for every American person.

He thinks that with the stroke of his pen, he can change the sun to the moon because he thinks that he is all-powerful. And when you have a person like that that has his finger next to the nuclear button, it should really give people pause about how far out of bounds we have gotten.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Up next. The Source Code. We're giving you a number at the center of a story in the news. Can you guess the story? Tonight's Source Code is 925. We'll be back with the answer.

[21:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Tonight's Source Code is 925, of course, for the late "9 to 5" singer Dolly Parton, whose name could soon grace Nashville's airport. A petition to rename Nashville International, after Dolly's passing, has taken off. More than 160,000 people have signed on, including singer Sheryl Crow.

Tennessee governor, Bill Lee, is backing the effort and has submitted a proposal to airport officials, saying, quote, "At a place where Tennessee welcomes the world, it is fitting that Nashville International Airport would bear the name of our state's favorite daughter and greet travelers with the enduring legacy of Dolly's music, generosity, faith, and kindness."

[22:00:00]

Parton, who also sang the Oscar-nominated song "Travelin' Thru" for the film, "Transamerica," died this week at the age of 80. Travelers can be hopeful they will soon be able to call the airport by her name. The Metro Nashville Airport Authority will discuss the proposal next month. It's like a no-brainer.

Thanks for joining us.

I'll be back on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this Sunday at 09:00 a.m. Eastern. I'll speak with White House Border Czar, Tom Homan; and Democratic congressman, Ro Khanna.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.