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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
CNN Back At White House But Denied Access To State Dinner Arrivals; GOP Senators Issue Rare Rebuke Of ICE Amid Reelection Fight; Trump & China's Xi Strike Different Tones On Regulating AI. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired September 24, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
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"THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. As President hosts a state dinner for the leader of China. We're back here on the White House grounds.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
And as we come on the air tonight, I'm coming to you, as you can see behind me, live from the White House. That, in and of itself, should not be news. But after five days, CNN, MS NOW, and Politico are now back on the White House grounds after a judge ordered President Trump to reverse his ban on those three outlets.
A chaotic morning ensued, where those reporters were initially not granted access to the White House, despite that judge's order overnight. And in a sign of how things remain still uncertain tonight, you're currently not seeing President Trump inside the East Room, as he is hosting this rare and certainly lavish state dinner for the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping.
The major TV networks that would normally record the evening are still waiting for the White House to confirm that CNN will be allowed to resume its duties for the TV press pool that covers the President, as we always have.
Tonight, our sources say that the lack of U.S. media coverage of Xi Jinping's visit is something that Chinese officials have expressed concern about. But President Trump himself has warmly embraced the communist leader, literally rolling out the red carpet for him as he arrived here in Washington. Even as his administration is now airing this new ad on national television.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: America will never be a communist country.
DANA WHITE, PRESIDENT AND CEO, ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIP: He's the toughest, most resilient person that I've ever met and nothing was going to stop him from fighting so hard for the country he loves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now that ad was paid for by the U.S. government. The White House declined to offer more details on how it was funded exactly, but defended it as a public service announcement to promote national pride.
JMSN, the singer-songwriter whose song is the soundtrack for that ad that you just watched, suggested on social media that the Trump administration used his song "Love Me" without his permission.
Now the administration is airing that ad with only a few weeks to go before the midterm elections here in the United States. And today, the President himself was noting how strong, vibrant, and fit China's communist leader looked at the airport when he arrived, amid speculation about Xi Jinping's health.
Now the two leaders did discuss Iran during their meeting today, with Xi saying that he hopes negotiations can resume soon between the United States and Iran. But of course, the fact is China does support Iran as this war has pushed the average 30-year fixed mortgage rate here in the United States above 7 percent. That was the major headline today, and I should note, it's a level we never saw in President Trump's first term, and is the highest it's been since the first week of this second term.
To start us off tonight here on the North Lawn, I'm joined by my colleague, CNN's Betsy Klein, who, after several attempts this morning, was allowed back on the White House grounds around noon.
I mean, Betsy, I think a curious thing about this has been, overnight the judge ruled. You got here this morning and tried to enter. Can you just kind of walk us through exactly what happened when you arrived here this morning and why you weren't allowed in?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: There was a long period of time today where it was an open question whether the Trump administration was in open defiance of this court order or if this was more of a clerical bureaucratic error.
So overnight, again, right after 12:58 a.m., this judge issued a temporary restraining order, saying that the Trump administration needed to immediately reinstate the badges of journalists from CNN, MS NOW, and as well as Politico.
Then at 06:10 a.m., I arrived here to an initial intersection right where we go to the Secret Service checkpoint. I showed them my driver's license and my CNN badge, and they said that I was not in the system. I was turned away. We tried that again at 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, and then again at 11:28 a.m. All four times denied entry here at the White House.
I resubmitted some of my vital information: my name, date of birth, Social Security number to the White House. In the 6 o'clock hour. I re-upped that request over email right after I was denied around 11:30 this morning. And then around 11:45, I got an email from a White House press wrangler who said that they would come to escort me.
[21:05:00]
So, we were able to get back into White House grounds right around noon, and we came straight here, did our live shot, got back to work. But I would just note, after I completed that live shot, I turned around and there was this enormous audience that had gathered for me.
And I think you and I both know that as journalists, you never want to be the story and -- but this was a very meaningful moment to me, and I think to all of our colleagues because it really symbolized the way that the White House press corps has come together in support of journalism and a free press.
COLLINS: Yes, and it kind of though, also goes against what the White House was arguing in court. Because, I mean, CNN and the two other outlets went to court this morning and they had to submit this emergency brief to the court, and the Justice Department was arguing that all passes were restored much earlier, but after when you had attempted to come in and still could not come in, right?
KLEIN: Yes. So, the brief said that they were reinstated and that the passes had been submitted and returned to the White House Gatehouse or the Northwest Gate right behind us, around 9 o'clock, a few minutes after the 9 o'clock hour. And we tried around that time to access our badges. Again, I was told I was not in the system. We tried again two and a half hours later, and I was told I was not available to go access the White House.
COLLINS: Betsy Klein, glad you're back here on the White House grounds, back to work.
Also here tonight, as we look at all of this from a legal perspective, is our Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig.
And Elie, the judge's order, I should note, restoring this, is only 14 days. Right now, CNN journalists are here, obviously, as you can see on the grounds of the White House. There was a moment earlier when they were denied access to President Xi's arrival, to watch that because, the White House was arguing that someone with a camera could not come. What's your sense of how this is playing out?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY, FORMER STATE & FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, Kaitlan, from here on out, really, the key decision belongs to President Trump. He can choose if he wants to cut his losses, to accept last night's ruling, to abandon this effort, to ban the press, and to just move on with life. That's actually what happened in the Jim Acosta case back in 2018. Now, a lot has changed since 2018, so the decision may not be the same.
Alternatively, the President and the White House can continue to fight this. They will have the next two weeks to continue to fight this in the district court, to try to prevent what was a temporary restraining order from maturing into a more permanent injunction. And then, if the President wants, he can take this up to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals.
I should also note, we could have some interim litigation because the move that was made by the White House tonight, to deny our colleague, Kristen Holmes and others access to that event, to me, that flat-out violates the judge's order from last night. That order was unequivocal. It says that the White House shall immediately return, reinstate, and restore the hard passes to CNN.
And so, if the White House is going to continue to play games and try to nickel and dime this and cut off and restrict access to certain rooms or events, and if CNN's lawyers choose to go back to court in the interim, I think CNN is going to continue to prevail.
COLLINS: Elie, do you think the judge's ruling stands up if they choose to fight this?
HONIG: I think that ultimately, yes, the judge's ruling will stand up. I think ultimately CNN will prevail.
And keep in mind, really important. There's two different paths to victory here for CNN. The first one is due process, and this was the basis for the judge's ruling last night. There was no process here. The entirety of the process was Donald Trump putting something on Truth Social.
Now, after the fact, the White House tried to say, Yes, but now we're going to give you what they called post-deprivation process, meaning we're going to take away your rights first, then give you process. The judge last night said, That's not the way it works, and indeed that's not the way it works.
The second path to victory for CNN would be the First Amendment claim. Now, the judge last night did not rule on the First Amendment, but he did make really important findings that the White House's national security explanation for banning CNN was nonsense; that it had no support in the record. And to the contrary, Donald Trump has made clear that the reason he's banning CNN is he doesn't like our coverage, and that is a textbook First Amendment violation.
COLLINS: And also, Elie, thank you for that.
My fellow White House correspondents are also joining me here outside on the North Lawn. We've got Shelby Talcott of Semafor and Jeff Mason of Bloomberg.
And also here with us is the former Deputy Press Secretary at the White House, Sarah Matthews.
Jeff and Shelby, as we're looking at all this tonight. This is obviously coming as the President is hosting this huge dinner that he wanted to get a lot of coverage, and earlier was complaining about the lack of coverage. But I mean, the only reason the coverage was impeded was really because of the President's decisions.
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG: Well, there's no question. I mean, certainly saying that CNN and MS NOW were making a decision not to cover this state visit, when early this morning, correspondents from CNN and MS NOW couldn't even get on campus is hard to square with making the suggestion that they made their own editorial decisions there. It's just not the case.
[21:10:00]
But I think it's emblematic of a few self-inflicted wounds that the President has made on his -- on his own, really, in the last several months that are impacting his agenda. Media coverage doesn't impact his agenda, but it impacts what he wanted tonight, which was to say, This is a big show. I'm responding or doing the same -- giving the same sort of red carpet treatment to my Chinese counterpart that he gave to me. And no one's going to see it.
COLLINS: Well, and what is actually happening inside. We are still covering it, despite what the President said.
And the guest list, Shelby, really stood out to me. The White House sent it out. It's got several Supreme Court justices, including John Roberts, Amy Coney Barrett, Brett Kavanaugh, but also a lot of these tech CEOs: Jensen Huang of Nvidia, Tim Cook, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk. What do you make of what's happening inside the room?
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: I think it's really notable, particularly because the topic of AI has been such a huge discussion here in the U.S. And it was really interesting because the Chinese leader has kind of had a little bit of a different take compared to the President, who has sort of dismissed any and all concerns that people have raised about the future of AI, whereas we have heard the Chinese President say that he sort of wants to make sure that this remains in humans' hands first.
And so, I'm interested to see if the fact that all of these CEOs are at that dinner indicates that there have maybe been more serious conversations than previously indicated about the topic of AI.
I also think it's notable that, according to the guest list, there didn't appear to be any Chinese companies on that list compared to when the President went to China, earlier this summer, and he brought a whole team of American CEOs with him on that trip.
COLLINS: That's a good point. And some of these CEOs that are in there, the tech leaders, are titans who are of their own industry calling for it to be regulated by the government. And the President says it's got the only one it needs, which is the DOJ.
TALCOTT: Yes, and I think it's going to be interesting to see if when you get in that room with the Chinese leader who's saying that he wants to make sure that it remains in human hands, and when you talk to those CEOs who are also saying we need more regulation. Is this going to be enough to convince the President?
Because, as we know, oftentimes the President can change his mind very quickly. If he hears from one person, and that's the last person who he hears from before going public with an issue, that might be what he ends up coming out with.
MASON: Also, this is an opportunity if he wanted to take it to come up with some guardrails that apply to the whole world. Because the two leaders of the AI revolution, if that's what you want to call it, are the United States and companies in China.
And here he is, having a state visit from the Chinese leader. They could be talking about it. And clearly, they are. I mean, it was notable to me that in their remarks, this morning, both of them mentioned AI, which we didn't really know for sure before today that they were going to discuss it. We assumed. But they made that clear that they were. But it doesn't seem like they're at least planning to set up a framework or some kind of an overall agenda that would impact the U.S., China, and the rest of the globe.
COLLINS: Yes.
Sarah Matthews, as someone who worked in the communications shop in the White House, in Trump round one, when you're watching how this is being -- how this is playing out, how the President's top communications aides are handling this, what's your view of how this has played out, from the ban, the reversal, the lack of the TV coverage the President seeks, for something as big of a moment like this.
SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, first, it's such an unforced error on their part because he's complaining about the lack of coverage. But then he picked the timing of when to institute this ban, right before Xi Jinping arrived. So, he can't really complain about it when it was something of his own doing.
And then, I have to say too that Trump is the most un-American President of my lifetime, and probably that we have ever seen because, he doesn't believe in a free press. He thinks that it's the job of the press to flatter him. He doesn't like being held accountable.
And that is why we have a free press in this country because they are supposed to ask tough questions, show the American people what's going on inside the White House and get that kind of information out there, and be an independent media. But Trump doesn't believe in that. Instead, he wants to control who is reporting on him. And you know who does that? The Chinese Communist Party.
And so, I think it's pretty ironic that as he's complaining about the press coverage of a country that it tightly controls their media and has state-sponsored propaganda, then he is tightly controlling which reporters get access based on if he likes their coverage or not. And tough leaders can answer tough questions, but weak leaders ban those reporters who ask those tough questions.
[21:15:00]
And so, I just think that it's really comical, the timing of it all, and I don't think it's going to work out for them in court. I think that you look at their excuse; they're saying that it's because these outlets are jeopardizing national security, but then Trump also calls CNN and MS NOW and Politico, fake news. So, I don't know how you square that circle then that they're jeopardizing national security--
COLLINS: You know--
MATTHEWS: --but we know that this is the same excuse that he's used for the ballroom, for the arch. And so, they're trying to use it for this as well.
COLLINS: And Sarah, one thing that the White House, as you know, some of your former colleagues used to always say is, Trump is the most accessible president. Bill Stepien, who worked on his 2020 campaign, was remarking to me the other night, it's pretty hard to argue that now that you banned, even temporarily, but only because of a court stepped in, banned three outlets from the grounds to make that argument.
MATTHEWS: Yes, they can't really keep claiming that this is the most transparent administration when he is banning these outlets.
And you would think that if he is his own best communicator, then he would want all the outlets covering him, and he would have that type of access. But again, he doesn't believe in a free press. He thinks that he -- he probably admires the Chinese Communist Party's media because they flatter their leader, and that is what he wants, and it's why he wants to replicate dictators and ingratiate himself with them. And I just think that it's completely un-American.
And I also have to point out the irony too, that the entire GOP's midterms pitch is that communism and socialism are on the rise, and that all Democrats are communists and socialists, and yet Trump then is welcoming a communist -- the leader of the Chinese Communist Party to this country this week, rolling out the literal red carpet for him and behaving like a communist country--
COLLINS: Yes.
MATTHEWS: --by restricting media access.
COLLINS: And Jeff and Shelby, when you look at this, to her point about what the President has done for Xi Jinping since he's been here.
In 2012, the President tweeted this. There's a tweet for everything. He said, So wrong. Barack Obama is hosting China's VP Xi Jinping today at the Pentagon with a full honor ceremony with music and cannons. TALCOTT: The times have changed. I mean, I think the notable thing here is this is a bigger event almost than the ceremony that was given to the President earlier this summer, I would argue. And I think the question is, what is the U.S. going to get out of this? And we really don't have any solid answers.
There haven't been a ton of major announcements in terms of massive trade deals or, as you said, a huge agreement on AI. So, it really does seem like this is just sort of a massive event. The President has always said that he has a particularly good relationship with the Chinese leader in a way that other former presidents have not.
COLLINS: Yes.
TALCOTT: And so, I think he likes that. I think he likes to sort of show that off.
COLLINS: And just to the point of all of this, Jeff. I mean, in that brief period that Betsy was talking about, where she couldn't get in this morning for a few hours until noon. Chinese state media was here. They were walking on the driveway behind us. They were in the briefing room. I mean, they were afforded access to the White House when three American outlets were not.
MASON: And the President also had kind words to say about the Chinese media, saying that the Chinese pool or the Chinese reporters were so friendly. I think compared, in his view, unfavorably to U.S. reporters.
It's all it's ironic in many ways, also because the President uses the word communist as a pejorative to describe Democrats, particularly right now going into the midterm elections with left-leaning Democrats and Democratic Socialists. But he is nonetheless hosting the communist -- leader of the Communist Party in China for this big lavish dinner.
And you compared him earlier to Obama. You can also just compare to President Trump's treatment in his first term. I mean, he absolutely blamed Xi Jinping and China for COVID. The U.S. -- or the Trump White House during his first term had very ambitious agendas on trade with regard to intellectual property and other things, and you just haven't seen any of that tonight.
COLLINS: Jeff Mason. Shelby Talcott. Great to have you here joining me on the White House grounds tonight.
Elie Honig and Sarah Matthews as well.
Up next. As the President is hosting China's leader here in Washington. Back in New York, at that United Nations summit, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu addressed the United Nations, or at least the diplomats who stayed for his speech. My source tonight is a former Deputy Secretary of State.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Right now, the state dinner for Chinese leader Xi Jinping is underway here at the White House.
Earlier today, during a meeting between the two leaders, one major topic was the U.S.-Iran War. Chinese state media reports that leader Xi said China would support the U.S. and Iran returning to that 14- point memorandum of understanding that was reached back in June, and he said that he hopes the two countries will resume negotiations soon.
My White House insiders are back with me now as we are live, as this is still going on.
I mean, there is a real question in terms of the Iran war and what their conversation is about that. Because, the President has kind of downplayed China's assistance and support for Iran, even though it's been a material factor that other Republicans and allies and supporters of the war have criticized.
TALCOTT: Yes, absolutely. And we were hearing from Republicans on the Hill as well, who were concerned, A, about the optics of this visit, but also, B, specifically about the optics of this visit, given China's reported involvement in this Iran war that, as you said, the President has sort of downplayed.
[21:25:00]
And so, I think the really interesting thing is going to be whether or not China and the President can come to some sort of agreement and actually have a serious conversation about it. Because when I talk to people inside the White House, the President, so far for the past several weeks in particular, has really downplayed the Iran war writ large because of the incoming midterms. Right? He's tried to sort of say that we've already won and that it's essentially done, and that nothing's going on even as the conflict continues.
And so, I'm curious to see post midterms if this visit ends up resulting in any sort of real agreement. As the President has said, if there's going to be an agreement, it's going to be after the midterms.
MASON: Also interesting to me, the strategies of the two men and the two administrations. I mean, the fact that we know, from Chinese media, what President Xi said to President Trump about Iran is fascinating, in part because it's him putting pressure on the President and on the Trump administration to go back to the negotiating table.
China has an interest in this getting wrapped up. But we're not seeing the reverse pressure from this president, at least not in public, but also not in terms of getting a readout from what he has said or what they prepared for.
The President could be putting pressure on China to help or not to buy additional oil from Iran. He could be doing the same thing with regard to Taiwan and multiple other issues of tension in the relationship. But instead, what we've seen today is a focus on boosting the relationship, being friendly, showing him the helicopter, showing him the helipad.
COLLINS: Yes, and also, I mean, he could pressure him to open the Strait of Hormuz--
MASON: Sure.
COLLINS: --pressure Iran to open the Strait of Hormuz on that front, and be playing a real role on that.
I mean, the for -- returning to the memorandum of understanding that the President signed at Versailles seems pretty unlikely, given the way that they've talked about it so far, doesn't it?
TALCOTT: It seems extremely unlikely, and it also doesn't really solve a lot of the main issues. A, we saw them try to do the memorandum of understanding, and it didn't really move the needle forward in any major way. It also didn't address the President's supposed reason for starting this conflict in the first place, which was that Iran can't ever obtain a nuclear weapon, right? It pushed -- it pushed things down the road on that front. So, it doesn't really answer any of the questions that need to be answered.
And of course, the big thing here is if the President were to sit down with the Chinese leader and say, Hey, I need your help reopening the Strait of Hormuz, that would of course be saying that the Strait of Hormuz is not open, which is something that the President continues to insist that it is. So, it's kind of, I think, complicating when you think of the President's public comments versus what's actually happening on the ground.
MASON: And the MOU didn't last and didn't work, right? So.
COLLINS: I think it lasted 10 days maybe.
MASON: Yes, yes, barely two weeks.
COLLINS: Yes.
MASON: And the President has given mixed messages about whether he even wants to talk to Iran again.
COLLINS: Mortgage rates are hitting 7 percent. I mean, Americans who are watching this are saying, even if they agree with the President in terms of the goal of not letting Iran get a nuclear weapon, I mean, the impact that it's having here at home, and what Republicans are saying is pretty remarkable.
MASON: It is. There's a real impact on the economy and there's a real impact on the politics for sure, and they're seeing that in the reaction from his own party, and certainly from the Democrats as well.
COLLINS: Yes.
Jeff Mason. Shelby Talcott. Excellent to have both of your insights and your reporting here with us on the North Lawn of the White House grounds. I'll be right back. We're continuing our live coverage here, as the President is hosting Xi Jinping for a state dinner right behind me here at the White House.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, there are more and more questions about a troubling ICE encounter that left a U.S. citizen bloodied and injured on the side of the road in Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a (bleep) U.S. citizen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That's in Evanston, right outside of Chicago. You hear that man shouting. He's an American citizen.
Surveillance video appears to show a struggle and two agents who took the man down to the ground. One witness said that he saw the agents punching him and putting their knees into his back. And now, new video out tonight shows what happened after.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I got video of it. Don't worry, brother. I got video of it. Don't worry.
No, you're not leaving him alone. Leave him alone, guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, local police say the agents left the man without rendering aid after determining that he wasn't actually the person they were looking for.
The Department of Homeland Security says tonight that the man was, quote, given lawful commands, but was not cooperative and refused to identify himself, and that the ICE agents, quote, later left the scene without further incident once the individual finally identified himself.
Now this comes, as ICE is continuing its immigration crackdown across the U.S., but also as the midterms are getting closer, resulting in some Republicans who are in tough races pushing back on their tactics. With ICE appearing to target cities in Kansas, the state's two Republican senators that you've seen here on THE SOURCE, Senator Moran and Roger Marshall, urging ICE to better cooperate with local law enforcement.
Marshall said this in a statement today, quote, "I relayed these concerns directly to DHS. We must keep our communities safe, but it has to be done in a responsible and secure manner." [21:35:00]
Now, compare that statement to what you heard earlier this year, after an ICE agent killed Renee Good, also an American citizen, in Minneapolis, when Marshall defended ICE operations and said, in part, quote, sometimes there's collateral damage.
My Republican source tonight is Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky.
And obviously, Congressman, that was not the tone that we had heard Roger Marshall take, after Renee Good was killed. Why do you -- why do you think that you're seeing these Republican senators speak out now? Does that stand out to you?
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Yes, well, first of all, I was out in front on this. I said that every ICE agent should have a body camera, and I told that to Kristi Noem in a hearing. I also said they should have judicial warrants to go into private homes. And these are two things they're still lacking in a lot of cases. They're trying to do administrative warrants.
And obviously, those guys are right. You need to cooperate with law enforcement. But the bigger story here or question here, which is the one you just asked, is why are Republicans putting daylight between themselves and the President on this issue?
Look, if you -- if you go to any conservative and you say, rate Donald Trump on his performance. They're going to -- I would give him an F on the economy, I'd give him an F on no new wars. But generally, Republicans say, Well, we'll give him a B, or at least a B minus on immigration and border security.
But here, you have Republicans putting daylight between themselves and the President, on the issue where he hasn't lost his base yet, even though the tactics here, in some cases, are not appropriate from the ICE agents.
COLLINS: Why do you think that is? Why do you think they're putting that daylight between them?
MASSIE: Because they have to find some way to get away from this president. He's not out there campaigning for them. They don't want him in their districts. They've got to put space between them and him, and this is the price they're paying.
Look, I was the Republican who was speaking out for so long, and they were all whatever Trump wants, they were all for it in their primaries. And now it's -- they're about to take a shellacking here in the general election, so they're running from him on this and other issues like the war.
COLLINS: I mean, yes, you are someone who knows what it's like to incur the President's wrath when you break with him. The Republicans who are distancing themselves, not just on ICE, but on the war when it comes to the cost of diesel, on tariffs, we've seen a lot more of that lately than we've ever seen. What do you think the President's response to that is going to be? Do you think he'll understand, tough elections are coming up? Or what do you say?
MASSIE: No, if you look at his social media accounts, just in the last few hours, he's unrepentant, he's in denial. Somebody in the White House needs to get through to him. I think he's come up and -- it will happen on Election Day and the day after, I think there's going to be a reckoning.
And what we need to see is what he does after the day after this election. Does he send a message, like George Bush did, firing his Secretary of Defense the day after the 2006 midterms, where Republicans took a shellacking? We'll see if he does something like that, and other measures, to show that he got the message.
COLLINS: The President literally rolled out the red carpet for Xi Jinping during this state visit. He's been talking about how strong and fit he looks amid concerns about his health.
What do you make of the President's warm welcome for Xi Jinping and the way that it has been compared with the ad that the White House is putting out now, of the President saying, America will never be a communist country. Do you think those messages jibe with one another?
MASSIE: I think it's a mixed message. Look, he will invite a communist to the White House, but I can't even go there for the Christmas party. His retribution tour on Republicans, I think, stands in stark contrast to the way he's treating the communist leader of China and also the Mayor of New York. But you know that's just who he is. He's not an ideologue. He doesn't have a true north or honestly any kind of beliefs. He's just kind of going with the flow here.
And China, what's interesting about China? They're buying gold. They're not buying our Treasury notes now. I wonder if he had a conversation about that because he's always after the Fed and the Treasury to try to get interest rates down. But the reason interest rates are going up, at least the price we pay to borrow money, is because foreign countries like China are saying, we don't want any more of your debt.
COLLINS: Yes, and I -- sorry to say, I don't think you're going to be getting invited to the White House Christmas party anytime soon, Congressman.
But in terms of what you're doing in your last several weeks and months on Capitol Hill. Obviously, you led the charge on Jeffrey Epstein when it came to the discharge petition that initially was put out there and that seemed like a long shot, but it ended up getting a lot of support.
[21:40:00]
You are now putting out something when you're -- you're trying to get another maybe what's seen as a long shot move, when it comes to trying to impeach the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth.
There was a new CNN report out about one of the aircraft carriers that was basically out at sea for much longer than typically would be, and CNN has learned that the Navy Secretary told Congress, eight sailors assigned to the USS Lincoln strike group attempted suicide.
When you hear that report, what goes through your mind?
MASSIE: Well, I introduced articles of impeachment against Peter Hegseth. And they just did a poll on this: 51 to 34 Americans support impeaching Peter Hegseth.
I may add another article of impeachment when I return to Congress because they ran out the clock, they sent us home so they wouldn't have to vote on it. He's downplayed sort of the fatalities and the casualties, I believe, and underreported what's going on in Iran and also on that ship. And I think there needs to be accountability there.
As you well know, they've kicked people out of the White House. Now they've invited them back. But there's still a vacuum there at the Pentagon, where they haven't brought in the typical news sources who keep them honest there and also protect our soldiers by making sure that these casualties get reported.
COLLINS: Yes, and obviously we heard from a lot of those sailors in terms of what it was like on that, and it's just -- it's tough to hear.
And I mentioned your other effort on Capitol Hill with Jeffrey Epstein. You're now trying for a second discharge petition. Today, we've learned that Jeffrey Epstein's longtime attorney and his accountant are both reportedly under federal investigation. Major questions about what that's going to look like. What went through your mind when you heard that news?
MASSIE: Well, when I heard Richard Kahn's name, it brought me back to what I was doing last week. When Speaker Johnson sent us home early, I stayed another day and went over to the DOJ and looked at some more of the redacted files, and I see Richard Kahn's name there, referring to an instance where they interviewed him, and I can't find the interview notes.
And so, there are more questions to be answered, and there are more files to release, and that's why we've done the Epstein Files Transparency Act Part II.
By the way, Kaitlan, we got the number of Republicans we need, and now we're just two Democrats short. But those two Democrats were out sick or for family reasons. As soon as we get back, that second discharge petition for this second bill that Ro Khanna and Teresa Leger Fernandez and I introduced, it's going to succeed, and they'll have seven legislative days to deal with it after the midterms.
That's one of the reasons I'm sitting here, talking to you remotely and not in D.C., is because they sent us home to avoid this issue until after the midterms.
COLLINS: Congressman Thomas Massie, we will see what happens after November. Thank you for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE.
MASSIE: Thanks, Kaitlan. COLLINS: Up next for us. We have heard where President Trump stands when it comes to regulating AI. What about China's leader? What we're learning tonight and what it means for the future of technology. My congressional source, this Democratic senator, has his own plan to regulate the industry.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: One of the biggest issues for humanity's future, AI, was discussed today face-to-face between President Trump, and the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, amid these growing concerns that we've all heard over the last several weeks about the rapid development of AI.
According to a Chinese Foreign Ministry statement, the Chinese leader told the President, quote, "While there is competition between the two sides, there is even greater scope for cooperation." He added that instead of, quote, guarding against each other against each other, both China and the U.S., in his view, should jointly guard against the misuse of AI.
Now, President Trump started today, he put it out his own position like this. He said, AI will be a big topic of discussion, but I want to leave it exactly where it is. That is China's position also.
My source tonight is introducing legislation to regulate AI here in the United States. That is Democratic Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado.
And thank you, Senator, for being here.
I want to talk to you about just how that bill would work and what it would look like. But when you hear what the President is saying, you see what the Chinese leader is saying. Do you believe that any progress was made in a meaningful way that you're hoping to see during this state visit with the Chinese leader?
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): I don't think any progress was made either on economic issues or on AI, and I think that unfortunately Xi Jinping has come to the United States in a moment when we've been weakened by the President's war in Iran, which is, you know, I would say, the worst self-inflicted wound of his presidency, and has played into Xi Jinping's hands in very fundamental ways.
I also don't believe that China and the United States have the same interest when it comes to AI. They are going to use AI to try to concretize their security state. They've already done that with the internet as it is. Even though many people in the West said that the internet would liberate the Chinese people, the opposite has been true. Both in China and around the world. We have the hard job of figuring out how to have this democracy sustained while these titans of technology impose their future on us, and that's a tough challenge for us. It's very, very different from the way the Chinese will think about deploying this technology. COLLINS: I mean, all of these tech titans are sitting in the East Room behind me right now at this state dinner. When you look at the guest list, it's a who's who of who's here.
BENNET: Right.
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: When you think of that and the conversations that are underway with these senior Chinese officials, senior U.S. officials. What do you think is being said inside that room right now?
BENNET: Well, I don't think any of it's helpful to the American people or to our security. I think President Trump is playing again into their hands, which is what he always does. That's why we need to regulate. It doesn't depend on Donald Trump.
Look, Congress will never get out of its own way to regulate AI. We know that. The states can't do it. This has to be the federal government. It has to be the President of the United States. We need a regulator, just like we have for airlines, just like we have for drugs, that can make sure that these models are adopted in a way that's safe for the American people and also preserves our innovation, preserves our leadership in the world.
In prior days, I mean, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, they put new agencies in place to deal with the economy as it's changing. That's what we need.
But what we have today is the President genuflecting to Xi Jinping in front of those billionaires in the White House, while diesel prices are $6.50 a gallon here in Colorado. The interest rates for a home in the United States of America is over 7 percent, and Donald Trump is sitting there in his -- what has become the gilded Oval Office in this gilded age, at a time when Americans are suffering because of his policies. And I think they're looking at this tonight and saying, Does he even see us anymore here in the United States?
COLLINS: In terms of that and what it looks like, and the President is putting out this ad saying, America will never be a communist country. I mean, your party has been facing this rising left. A lot of people who are self-identified Democratic Socialists of America. But the President's been warning about what that would look like if Democrats win in November. Do you see a conflict of that message?
BENNET: The most Bolshevik thing I've seen recently is President Trump banning Kaitlan Collins from the White House, and banning Politico from the White House.
The entire world is watching Xi Jinping and Donald Trump at the White House today in Washington, and the President of the United States has banned the free press from the White House. That has huge implications for us.
He's now running an ad today, and I know he's just doing it to make people like me mad, but it matters. He's running an ad today that's a political ad paid for by the taxpayer. That's the kind of thing a Bolshevik leader would do. His portrait hangs on the outside of the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C., just like the portraits of these dictators that hang all over this country -- this world.
And I think, I'm actually sort of glad all this is happening as soon as -- as close in time to the midterms, Kaitlan. Because I think the American people are registering in their mind the idea that, You know what? We really don't want a president who bans the free press from the White House. We really don't want a president who makes himself and his family rich on crypto. We really don't want a president who is taking us into another long war in the Middle East, after he promised over and over and over again during his elections that he couldn't do it. These are costs.
And in the meantime, by the way, we're not doing anything to deal with AI because his friends are in there, having dinner with him tonight, telling him they don't actually need to be regulated.
COLLINS: Well, you're hoping Democrats can win the majority in the Senate. You want to establish an independent agency, basically, to regulate AI.
BENNET: Right.
COLLINS: How would that work?
BENNET: It would -- when we would set it up, it'd have a five-member commission, like some other independent commissions, and we would have clear -- pre-clearance for these frontier models before they escape from these companies and wreak havoc throughout our world, potentially.
And there is a very serious set of fines. I mean, what I say in this proposal is that we should fine these guys as much as a third of their trailing revenue, if they're unwilling to submit themselves to a system of transparency, to a system of accountability.
Kaitlan, when there are people in these companies saying that there might be a 10 percent chance, or a 15 percent or 20 percent chance that humanity could be destroyed by these -- by AI, we need to listen to that, we need to pay attention to that, and we need to deal with it in an orderly way. Not so we don't innovate; we should innovate. I want us to lead the Chinese. But we should do it in a thoughtful, commonsense way. That's not the way Donald Trump approaches any of these questions, but I think the American people are demanding it.
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado, thank you for joining us tonight.
BENNET: Thanks so much for having me.
COLLINS: Up next. It is time for Source Code. We give you a number at the center of a story that's in the news. Can you guess what that story is? Tonight's Source Code is 25. We'll be right back with the answer. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 25. Because that's how many seconds coaches can talk to their players in between each play through those radio headsets, the ones that Nick Saban used to throw to the ground, in the NFL and college football.
However, if someone like the President of the United States is in the building and on the move, as President Trump will be, when he goes to the Texas versus Tennessee game, this Saturday, they might just hear radio silence.
That's because that game planning nightmare is something that the Longhorns coach Steve Sarkisian is preparing for. Today, he shared this story about what happened at last year's national championship, where the President was in attendance, and Indiana won 27 to 21 over Miami.
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STEVE SARKISIAN, HEAD COACH, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS FOOTBALL: In the fourth quarter, if he decides to leave early, your communication gets cut off and shuts down.
So I'm, you know, I'm -- a good friend of mine is Mario Cristobal. Last year, when they were playing Indiana in the national championship, they had that drive at the end of that game, they had no communications because he was leaving early before the game ended.
And so, you get no warning. It just cuts out. And so, you've got to be prepared for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, CBS Sports reports that there are varied recollections about the exact timing of that communications shut down, but all of their sources did agree, it did not impact the outcome of the game.
Best of luck to them on Saturday.
[22:00:00]
And of course, if you missed the show, you can stream THE SOURCE live or watch it on demand anytime, if you have an all-access subscription. You can scan the QR code on your screen right there, or go to CNN.com/Watch to learn more. You can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter @kaitlancollins where I'm also posting and reposting the latest reporting throughout the day.
If you can hear, the motorcade is starting up around us. It sounds like that state dinner is coming to an end.
Thanks so much for joining us here for our coverage live at the White House.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
