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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Personal Insults Fly In Heated Michigan Senate Debate; Ossoff, Collins Face Off In First Georgia Senate Debate; Vance Backs Trump, Says Administration Deserves A+ On Economy. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 08, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --since leaving that message three years ago, Sue's son Dermot has died. And I'll talk with her in 15 minutes at 09:15 p.m. Eastern. Watch online or on your phone at CNN.com/AllThereIs. That's for All There Is Live, my streaming show.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tempers are flaring tonight at several critical Senate debates that are playing out in Michigan, Maine, and Georgia.
And Senator Bernie Sanders is going to join me live.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
It's a very busy night as we come on the air. 26 days to go until the midterm elections, and Senate candidates have just finished three debates in three of the closest battleground states in the fight for control of the Senate: Michigan, Maine, and Georgia, all three of those races are in our top list of Senate seats that are most likely to flip.
Michigan, of course, is one of the few opportunities for Republicans to try to flip a seat. Right now, polls show that race is very close.
And tonight was actually the first time that voters got to see Republican Mike Rogers and Democrat Abdul El-Sayed face off in a debate. And it didn't take very long, when those two were facing off, for it to get personal.
Just listen to this exchange, where the two of them were being questioned about those Flock surveillance cameras.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ROGERS, (R) MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: Those programs were really, really important in catching people who were suspected of terrorists and being terrorist -- committing a terrorist act. That's really, really important.
And why would that bother you? Well, if you have someone in your family that might be on the watchlist--
ABDUL EL-SAYED, (D) MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: Are you calling -- are you going to go ahead and say that I'm a -- go ahead and say it.
ROGERS: No, I've never said what--
EL-SAYED: You -- no -- you've been -- you've been -- you've been tiptoeing around it the whole time.
ROGERS: Did you not have family on -- did you not--
EL-SAYED: Just say it. Say it. Go ahead and say it.
ROGERS: No. I haven't been tiptoeing it--
EL-SAYED: Did you know why? Do you know why? It's because of your policies.
ROGERS: Listen--
EL-SAYED: Because of your policies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's so rough--
EL-SAYED: That -- that -- this is use -- use surveillance.
ROGERS: This is -- is this his question, sir? Or is this mine?
EL-SAYED: Use surveillance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to give you both--
EL-SAYED: So I'm just saying, if you want to come out and say something, go ahead and say it. Ridiculous.
ROGERS: No, no, well let's do this. Let's--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
ROGERS: Let's open up this can or worms.
EL-SAYED: He wants--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll give you an--
ROGERS: I'll tell you what my mother did. She was a small--
EL-SAYED: You're going after my mom?
ROGERS: I'm not going after your mom.
EL-SAYED: Really? That's exactly what you're doing.
ROGERS: What -- what your mom was working at, I was going off to that organization that was indicted for funneling money to Al-Qaeda.
EL-SAYED: Look--
ROGERS: That's your mom. My mom worked at a local chamber of commerce. I'll put my mom up any day for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Pretty much the whole night looked like that between the two of them.
Meanwhile, in Maine, this was the second of what is it going to be four debates, over 10 days, for the Republican in that race, Susan Collins, and the Democrat Troy Jackson.
Now, Collins has survived tough re-election battles in the past. In fact, in her last re-election campaign, back in 2020, she won her Senate race by eight points, even as President Trump lost her state by nine points on the same night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TROY JACKSON, (D) MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: You know, Senator Collins talks about a crook. I mean, Donald Trump is a convicted felon, 34 felons. She has no problem doing his bidding.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I have served Maine with integrity the entire time, and I deeply resent these false allegations.
JACKSON: We certainly never had any pay-for-play scandals like Senator Collins seems to be doing every day now.
S. COLLINS: If you look at the number of times that Troy has flip- flopped his position on issues, and it usually has to do with issues that his son has been hired to lobby him on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: That was in Maine.
Meanwhile, in Georgia, we saw Senator Jon Ossoff, and the Republican congressman, the candidate in that race, Mike Collins, also debating. Democrats have felt pretty good about Senator Ossoff's chances of holding on to that seat, especially after Republicans started moving some of their advertising dollars away from that race in Georgia.
Tonight, both candidates came out swinging.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE COLLINS, (R) GEORGIA SENATE CANDIDATE: But my opponent is a radical, and he has left our state less safe, more expensive, and worse off. He's an extremist who's voted for men to go in girls' sports. He's opposed the forgotten men and women who just want to keep more of their tips, their overtime, and their Social Security.
SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): That's the problem, Mike. It's not just that you've hired half the Third Reich to staff your congressional office and you have promoted neo-Nazi content online. It's that you're robbing your constituents to subsidize your donors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: And on that note, my first guest tonight is the Independent Senator of Vermont, Bernie Sanders.
Hopefully, Senator, our back-and-forth is more cordial than a lot of the exchanges that we watched play out tonight.
[21:05:00]
It got very heated in these debates. I mean, no surprise, given how critical these races are, but especially so in Michigan. What was your takeaway from watching the candidate that you've endorsed there?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, I think Abdul did great, and I think he did great because it's impossible for Republican Mike Rogers to defend the most dangerous, reckless, and extreme president in the history of the United States.
And Kaitlan, what this election is about, whether it's Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Florida, wherever, it's whether or not the American people want to continue to have a Senate and a House that rubberstamps the horrific policies of Donald Trump, or whether or not we want to hold Trump accountable, whether instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires and throwing millions of people off the health care they have, that we develop policies which help the 60 percent of our people who are living paycheck to paycheck. That's really what the overall issue is.
And I think it's unfortunate that so many of these debates become personal. Because the issue is: Do we have a government that works for Elon Musk, who, by the way, is spending $200 million to try to make sure Republicans maintain control over the Congress? Or do we have a government that starts representing working families?
K. COLLINS: Why do you think these races are so personal?
SANDERS: I don't know why. It's -- I don't know. I guess, candidates think they do well by beating up on their opponent.
But I kind of think the most important thing -- and I think Abdul did it. Do you think, in Michigan, or in America, the health care system is working? Nobody thinks it's working. We pay twice as much as the people of other countries. We are the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people as a human right. So, Abdul is absolutely right that we should have Medicare for All.
Do you think that it is appropriate that you have billionaires getting richer and richer, paying an effective tax rate lower than a plumber or a nurse? Well, most people don't. And Abdul is right. We need a wealth tax on billionaires.
Abdul is right that we need to support trade unions, that we need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. That we have to regulate AI, the most dangerous and problematic technology in the history of humanity.
So, I think getting outside of the personal attacks, just focusing on the fact that the very richest people are getting richer, working people are hurting, and you have an extraordinarily dangerous, irresponsible person in the White House who must be held to task. That is why people should be voting Democratic in this election.
K. COLLINS: Senator, on Abdul El-Sayed specifically, there's pretty much two takeaways that you see in polls in terms of what you're looking at, of what he's facing challenge-wise. There are voters who think he's the more extreme candidate in the race, that he's too liberal, his positions. You're talking about Medicare for All. He was talking about that tonight. And then he's also struggled to get support from Black voters in Michigan.
Do you think he's done enough on those two fronts, or what does he need to do differently, in your view, in these next few critical weeks?
SANDERS: Well, Kaitlan, I think the argument that he's too quote- unquote liberal is just factually incorrect. If you look at a recent Wall Street Journal poll, 63 percent of the American people believe that we've got to move toward Medicare for All. So, what's radical about supporting what 63 percent of the American people want? Overwhelming majority of the American people think that the rich and billionaires should start paying their fair share of taxes.
So, I don't think that what Abdul is talking about is radical at all. It's where I think ordinary Americans are. They know that the system is rigged, the economic system is rigged. And by the way, Abdul has been talking about the corrupt campaign finance system, which allows Musk and other billionaires to spend ungodly amounts of money to try to have Republicans retain control of the Senate and the House. So, I don't think his views are radical. I think they are where the working families of this country are.
I think one of the issues in Michigan, which really does disgust me. I mean, people can disagree on the issues. Mike Rogers doesn't like Medicare for All. Fine. But even just today, I mean, Trump sent out this disgusting racist post, suggesting that Abdul because, he's a Muslim, is a terrorist linked to jihad. And Abdul is running up against a lot of that.
[21:10:00]
So, I would hope that in Michigan, people will look at the issues, at a candidate who is a medical doctor, who believes that health care is a human right, who's standing with working families, and not allow us to succumb to this ugly racism coming from the Trump administration.
K. COLLINS: In terms of these races, a lot of them are going to be toss-ups, and they're going to be really close. I mean, even President Obama was saying that at a fundraiser, apparently privately, according to the Post.
SANDERS: Yes. Yes. Sure. K. COLLINS: He said, all of these races that are showing, we've got a two or three point lead, or it's a toss-up. He said, we could end up losing all of them by two points.
SANDERS: He's right.
K. COLLINS: Is that a concern that you share, Senator?
SANDERS: Absolutely. Absolutely. These are all within the margin of error. Democrats could win them all. Republicans can win them all. Democrats could win some, lose some, et cetera. And that is why in the next three weeks, we have got to build the strongest grassroots movement that we possibly can.
We need to be knocking on a lot of doors and explaining to people the simple reality that if you do not, if you think that Trump's policies are dangerous, and are destructive to working families, you cannot allow Republicans to continue to control the Senate. Because, when they control the Senate, there will be no accountability for Trump. They will control every chair. They'll control appropriations. They'll control health care. There will be no effort -- no ability for us to push forward an agenda to represent working families.
So, the most important vote that any senator casts is the very first one. Which party will control the agenda, will control what bills get to the floor? That is the important vote. And I think at this moment in history, we have got to hold Trump accountable. We need policies to represent the working people, not the oligarchs, and that's why it's terribly important that Democrats retain control of the House -- gain control of the House and Senate.
K. COLLINS: Well, Senator, you have identified as a Democratic socialist for over 60 years.
Today, there was a press conference I was at this morning, where the Vice President JD Vance, he was asked to define socialism, and this was his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How do you define socialism personally, and why do you think socialist candidates are popping up everywhere across the country?
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Oh man, you know, I guess, it's honestly it's a hard term to define these days because very often socialism -- you know, classically, you would think socialism is about prioritizing workers. And yet, in reality, I guarantee that most of the self-described socialists, running across the United States of America, are going to howl about this announcement today, which is prioritizing American workers over foreign workers.
So, I don't know what the term means anymore. I think, in reality, what it actually means in the American context is that you want to replace American workers with foreign workers, and you want boys to play in girls' sports.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: What do you make of that definition?
SANDERS: Well, I couldn't quite get all of it. The sound wasn't great.
But look, I don't think we should allow Mr. Trump or Mr. Vance to define democratic socialism.
Democratic socialism is not complicated. What it is, is saying that we need a government that represents ordinary people, working families, the middle-class, lower-income people, and not the oligarchs.
Today, you have a society in which a handful of billionaires have unbelievable wealth, control the economy, control the media to a large degree, and now are spending over a billion dollars to control our political process.
What democratic socialism is about is saying that health care is a human right, not a privilege. Guarantee health care to all. Every other major country on earth does that.
What democratic socialism is about is that if you work 40 hours a week, you shouldn't be living in poverty. We've got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, at least 40 -- at least $20 an hour.
What democratic socialism is about is saying that we believe in democracy, one person, one vote. Not maintaining a corrupt campaign finance system which allows billionaires, as we're seeing right now, buy elections.
What democratic socialism means is we've got to protect the planet for our kids and future generations--
K. COLLINS: Yes.
SANDERS: --and not let the fossil fuel industry destroy life for future generations.
K. COLLINS: Well, there was another part of the answer where he said that one of the most interesting things -- he was talking about in 2016, and he cited you, and said you were asked about open borders, and that you gave an answer -- This is the Vice President's quote, I'm reading it directly -- That sounded similar to Stephen Miller's, where he said, of course, we're not going to have open borders because that's going to displace American workers.
SANDERS: Right.
[21:15:00]
K. COLLINS: The Vice President continued, It is ironic that so many of the self-described socialists running across this country, love the idea of replacing American workers with foreign workers, which suggests to me, it's not really about the working class.
SANDERS: That is total-- K. COLLINS: Would you say that you and Stephen Miller are aligned?
SANDERS: No. Look, nobody I know who is running for office believes in open borders. Really, you want to have open borders? You want zillions of people from all over the world coming into the United States? Nobody I know who's running for office comes anywhere close to believing that.
What I said then is what I believe, is that if you have open borders, it will put pressure on workers and lower wages in this country. The contrary to that, by the way, is that we have millions of undocumented workers today who are doing enormously important work. And instead of breaking down doors with ICE, throwing people into detention centers, we should be appreciating the hard work that these people are doing to maintain our economy and move toward comprehensive immigration reform and a path toward citizenship.
Bottom line there, nobody I know who's running for office believes in quote-unquote open borders. That's just mythology coming from right- wing Republicans.
K. COLLINS: So, you don't think you sound like Stephen Miller?
SANDERS: No, please no. No.
K. COLLINS: You criticized Microsoft back in July because they're cutting jobs, and that was part of what the announcement was today in terms of where the administration was going. They're barring them from bringing workers into the country using an H-1B visa program to make it permanent.
Is that a step you support that the Trump administration is taking, Senator?
SANDERS: Look, I think the H-1B program has been greatly abused, and other immigration programs as well.
There are amusement parks, there are ski centers, ski resorts here in Vermont. In the past, where you have people from all over the world are teaching kids how to ski. You know what? People in Vermont can teach young people how to ski.
So, we need a sensible immigration policy, not one which brings in people from around the world to replace American workers.
K. COLLINS: I have to ask you about news that came out of the Pentagon today. Because, the Defense Secretary said the execution of the man who killed 13 people in a mass shooting at Fort Hood in 2009 is going to be public. The Pentagon says it will be live streamed.
Senator, what's your reaction to that news?
SANDERS: I think it's awful. A, I don't happen to believe in capital punishment in general. But to televise it to what, is that bloodlust? We're supposed to get excited and pleased that some guy is being executed? I think that is not what this country is supposed to be about, and I think most people don't think that that is really what we should be about.
K. COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for joining us to talk about the Michigan Senate race, all these other critical races, and much more news tonight. Appreciate your time.
SANDERS: Thank you.
K. COLLINS: We're also following breaking news that's happening in New York City, right now, after a man was just shot during an encounter with ICE agents. We're waiting to hear live from New York City Mayor, Zohran Mamdani, this hour. And we have a reporter live on the scene right after this.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: --tonight, as there are tense protests underway in New York City right now after a man was shot by an ICE agent.
A law enforcement source tells CNN that ICE agents had encountered a man they were targeting, before firing shots into his car with his 5- year-old child sitting in the back seat. Witness video from the scene appears to show a badged agent in a construction vest waving a weapon near a growing crowd in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. We're told that the child was not hurt and that the man was taken to a local hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.
We were hearing from the New York City Mayor, Zohran Mamdani, tonight, who posted in part this, saying, quote, "This is an unconscionable and incredibly serious situation. I have called the President; when we speak I will demand that he ends all ICE enforcement actions in our city. I will not stand by while ICE agents terrorize our communities."
My colleague, CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is on the ground in New York City tonight.
Shimon, what can you tell us about what we're learning about what happened here and what's happening right now?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So that's the car, Kaitlan here, behind me here.
Steve (ph), why don't you show Kaitlan here the car? Let's zoom in.
I actually want to show you something, Kaitlan. They just moved the car so we could kind of see it. You could actually see a bullet hole on the driver's side there in the windshield.
There is a bullet hole that we believe, obviously at this moment, from everything we know and we've been told, came from an ICE officer who, what we're told, there was some kind of an encounter, and this has been happening so many times now across the country, during some -- they were targeting this individual for -- for a car stop when, for whatever reason, the ICE officers opened fire, and now we see where one of those bullets landed here -- there through that windshield. The man that was inside that car was not alone. He was in there with a 5-year-old child. And witnesses we spoke to, and law enforcement officials we've talked to, said that child was taken out of the car by police.
We also spoke to a witness who saw the aftermath, the moments after, talking about what he saw and how the man who was shot was taken by police and put inside a police car.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROKUPECZ: Tell me what you saw. What happened? Tell me what happened.
[21:25:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, what happened was when I was running, I just see a bunch of people standing outside front. I was confused what was going on because I've seen cops speeding, and then that's when I see one of the officers with a big gun in his hand raising it up, and then they had a young man to the ground, cuffed, and they was dragging him, bringing him into the police car. That's what I've seen.
PROKUPECZ: Did you see where he came from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was standing -- he was standing like he ain't (ph) carrying like he was basically showing everybody the gun.
PROKUPECZ: He was wearing a vest or something?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he had a construction outfit on. He didn't even look like a cop or an agent, whatever he is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PROKUPECZ: And Kaitlan, that certainly created such tense moments here on the scene. Things have quieted down here. Many of the community members have been now marching towards the hospital where this man is and that 5-year-old child.
We are, from everything we can tell, the Mayor's office, Mayor Zohran Mamdani -- Mamdani, his staff is out here, and we think we will be hearing him -- from him at some point for an update. As you said, he posted on X about this, saying that he was going to call the President and calling what happened here unacceptable. So, we're waiting to hear more from city officials.
The Department of Homeland Security did issue a statement, saying that they were targeting this individual who has a criminal history. But we yet -- we don't yet know why they opened fire on this individual.
K. COLLINS: Well, and Shimon, what I was thinking of whenever we were hearing this breaking news today is our colleague, Priscilla Alvarez, just posted today and reported today that ICE leadership had told agent-- PROKUPECZ: That's right. I forgot about that.
K. COLLINS: --agents nationwide to increase arrests by more -- by a 1,000 more people daily, returning to that previous goal of 3,000 daily arrests, and they were also instructed to try to reach 19,000 arrests per week.
Do we know if there was an operation happening in this area? Is it even clear to the people who live there yet?
PROKUPECZ: No, it's not really clear to the people who live here. But the Department of Homeland Security says that they were targeting this individual.
So, having covered these stories before, sadly, what happens is usually they're looking for an individual. They get out here. It's always -- one of the things that they have been doing so differently under this administration is that they've been doing these enforcement actions at 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
Sometimes -- normally, what they would do is they would do them early in the morning, going to an individual's home, trying to apprehend the individual, surprising the individual.
But they have been doing so many of these kind of aggressive moves involving trying to stop vehicles. Time and time again, we see this, where ICE officers are trying to stop vehicles. Something happens, and then they fire at the individual. Sometimes, it's just bad tactics. Now, we don't know if that's the case here. We'll see. You know, we'll see what Department of Homeland Security actually tells us happened here.
But there is so much angst in this community, as in many communities across the country, that many of the people -- when I got here, I couldn't believe how many people were here, Kaitlan.
Many of the people aren't even from this community. They heard what happened here. Many of them are out here, protesting against ICE. Some of them are immigration. They try to help this community and folks who are dealing with immigration issues. They heard about this, and so many of them just started pouring into this area to try and find out what happened. And now they're on their way. Many of them have went to the hospital, and they said they're not going to stop fighting. They want to get answers and accountability over what happened here.
K. COLLINS: Yes, and we'll see what the Mayor says if he speaks tonight.
Shimon Prokupecz, keep us updated what you're seeing on the ground.
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
K. COLLINS: I do want to note for our viewers. The Department of Homeland Security said this was a targeted enforcement operation that was happening in the Bronx to arrest a person they described as a criminal, illegal alien from the Dominican Republic, who had a prior criminal conviction for grand larceny, and multiple arrests for assault, robbery, possession of drugs and weapons possession.
We will see obviously what further statements we get from them. We'll be following this story throughout the hour tonight.
Up next. Of course, we're still following these critical races that are playing out with just a few weeks to go before the midterm elections. In Georgia, the Democrat there, Jon Ossoff, and Republican Mike Collins faced off in a very heated debate. More of what was said, right after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: We're following breaking news out of Georgia tonight, where the Democratic senator there, Jon Ossoff, was facing off against his Republican challenger, Representative Mike Collins, in the first of two scheduled debates, in a race that could determine the balance of power here in Washington.
Ossoff is the only Senate Democrat who is running for re-election in a state that the President won two years ago. And tonight, he went after the President's war in Iran and also called on his opponent to try to defend it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSSOFF: This war has been a disaster. 18 Americans have been killed, hundreds have been wounded. The President declared victory on day four of this conflict. You want to support the troops? Why don't you explain to Georgians right now, Congressman, how this war has been a success? This is your chance.
M. COLLINS: President had every right to go in there and make sure that Iran does not get a nuclear weapon. Jon Ossoff knows this. The IAEA, they had already sounded the bells, the alarms, that Iran was close to getting a nuclear weapon. And the thing is, Iran doesn't only want to decimate and kill Israel; they want us as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: My political sources are here tonight, including:
Karen Finney, a former senior adviser to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign.
And Scott Jennings, former senior adviser to Senator Mitch McConnell.
[21:35:00]
Scott, do you think that Mike Collins' arguments were convincing to people in Georgia, or paying more for gas seven months into this war?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, FORMER SPECIAL ASST. TO PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, HOST, "THE SCOTT JENNINGS RADIO SHOW" ON SRN: Well, I didn't see everything that was said about it.
But I think there are certainly arguments, like that one, that can be made in favor of the decision to do it, the decision to take away their ability to commit terrorism and with possibly with nuclear weapons is a good one.
I would go further. Their navy is sunk, their air force is destroyed. Their military industrial complex is decimated. Their neighbors in the region are allied against them. They haven't exported a drop of oil since July. Their economy is teetering on the brink of collapse.
Look, we--
K. COLLINS: So, you think defending the war is the right move for Republicans?
JENNINGS: I think defending the--
K. COLLINS: Because Mike Rogers in Michigan was saying it should end.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Right.
JENNINGS: Well, look, I think some candidates have chosen the path of saying, I want to bring it to an end, or I want to -- I think Ashley Hinson said, I want to bring it to a successful end.
I think we are bringing it to a successful end right now. We've got these people on the ropes. I think we've already won. We just need to bring about the final conditions here that make it so that Iran cannot threaten the United States of America, our allies, or continue to be the world's largest state sponsor of terror, which is what they've been for the last half century. I don't think the President started a war. I think he's finishing one.
FINNEY: Look, here's what this -- this reminds me so much of 20 years ago, in the 2006 midterms, when we were talking about the Iraq and Afghanistan war, and very similar arguments where, you know, on the one hand, people were trying -- candidates -- Republican candidates were trying -- having to try to defend why this was still a good thing when, in the face of overwhelming, increasing public anxiety about what is the plan to get us out, and have we accomplished the objective?
Nobody wants Iran to have a nuclear weapon. Period, full stop. But the -- and that's really not the question. The question is: Is this the right course of action? Are there other -- should we be -- you know, is this president -- is this -- you know, is he qualified and able to bring it to a successful end?
And I think in a state like Georgia, to your point, where we're talking about costs, people are wanting to hear that member, that their elected officials are conscientious of the toll that it is taking on them. And we heard, you know, similarly, I've heard Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan talk about, let's bring more of that money and invest it here at home. Again, very similar arguments we were making in 2006 that were resonating with Americans and are resonating again.
K. COLLINS: And we, back in a different world, thought that Ossoff would be one of the toughest, closest races we were watching. He's been fundraising pretty well and polling pretty well.
In Ohio, where it's a lot a different story. Senator Sherrod Brown is actually holding a six-point lead over Jon Husted, the Republican in that race.
Iowa Senate race shows a toss-up.
Trump carried both of those states by double digits in 2024. Why are the Republicans struggling, do you think, Scott?
JENNINGS: Look, I think there's a lot of close Senate races because people do have anxiety about the cost of living. Of course, 95 percent of what they have anxiety about was created under Joe Biden. I mean, I think if you look at the recent government data from the Agriculture Department, for instance, food inflation has largely been tamed by this administration.
People are still feeling a serious hangover from four years of Joe Biden and the Democrats digging a very deep hole. I think these Democrats are promising nothing but a return to the shovels.
Now the Republicans are in charge, and they have to answer for it. And what they have to say is good. We've cut taxes. We've supercharged economic growth. We are getting out of the hole that we were left. That's the debate that's being had.
I don't hear a single Democrat candidate offering a single proposal of a single bill that would change anything, particularly on gas prices, which Democrats have advocated for higher prices for, for years.
FINNEY: Well, actually, what Democrats are talking about is that we need to -- we do need to end this war, and as a way to be -- I mean, the President says once it's over, gas prices are magically going to come down.
But look, part of what -- I mean, Republicans, I guess, are doing the best they can in the environment that they can.
But again, I would argue we have strong candidates. We have candidates who are talking about the lived experience and the economic pain that people are really feeling.
And when you have a president who consistently is talking about how many millions for an arch, and how many millions do -- he wants to repaint the EEOB? He wants to -- you know, all these vanity projects.
I mean, our own colleague, Kristen Soltis Anderson, said, for example, that she's hearing in focus groups that Trump voters are saying, we're sick of the retribution. You're not even talking about us.
So that's, I think -- you know, to Scott's point--
K. COLLINS: Yes.
FINNEY: --the costs are not going down. Wages are not keeping up with the cost of inflation, gas prices, and things like -- you know, farmers are getting hit because of the decisions--
K. COLLINS: Yes.
FINNEY: --that Donald Trump has made.
K. COLLINS: There was something else that happened today in terms of these headlines. We also spoke to Senator Bernie Sanders about this. It was an announcement by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth on the USS Abraham Lincoln, that the public is going to be able to watch the firing squad execution of the Fort Hood shooter.
This is what he said.
[21:40:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Army major betrays his country, radical Islamist, kills a bunch of Americans at Fort Hood. Of course, we're going to do it at Fort Hood. Going to do it on a Thursday. We're going to do it at 1 o'clock, which is when he did it, and it's going to be soldiers with rifles executing the firing squad. It hadn't been since World War II since we've done that. Well, I kind of like the mentality we had in World War II, which was win, which was understand when the enemy attacks you, you need to stand your ground.
We'll make sure that people are able to watch it, that it's public because, people need to understand that this is a -- there's serious consequences for these types of things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Do you agree this should be live streamed?
JENNINGS: I have mixed emotions about that. I don't mind the firing squad. I don't mind doing it at Fort Hood. I think most of what he said is a good course of action for meting out this punishment. Have mixed emotions about the live stream, truthfully. I know, a lot of public -- executions are public in some way because they allow media and a few members of the public in to watch, but--
K. COLLINS: Yes, but that's different than live streaming.
JENNINGS: Live streaming is a -- is a much different thing.
FINNEY: It's ghoulish. it's ghoulish. I mean, let's -- I mean, it's very unnerving, the idea. But also, the idea, that standing on the deck of the Lincoln, given what the men and women on that ship have gone through. When it is their day, it is about them coming home, that's when you choose to make this decision and announce it?
And it is so out of touch. It is -- it reminded me of the ads that Trump is running that says, Dude, do you not get? People are hurting. They don't -- this is not going to solve their problem. Your uber machismo, Let's give them gender affirming care in the form of testosterone shots? That is not addressing the real problems, nor is it addressing the concerns that people have about what is happening in Iran and how it's going to come to an end.
K. COLLINS: Karen Finney. Scott Jennings. Thank you both for being here tonight.
Up next. What the Vice President said when I asked him on what grade he believes their administration deserves when it comes to the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: You have to remember, Kaitlan, that we inherited the worst inflation crisis in 48 years in the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I would say this. I'd give us an A+ on the government, on economics, on everything. Look at inflation. I inherited the worst inflation in history under Biden, the worst in history. And now it's great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Days after President Trump gave his administration an A+ on everything, including the economy, I asked Vice President JD Vance about why they deserve that grade.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Given how close we are to the midterms, and you've been out on the campaign trail -- given inflation, mortgage rates, and gas prices are all higher than when you took office, why does this administration deserve an A+ on the economy, as President Trump says?
VANCE: You have to remember, Kaitlan, that we inherited the worst inflation crisis in 48 years in the United States of America. We have seen $19 trillion of new investment come.
Does some of those benefits take time to fully -- you know, it takes time to build a factory. It takes time to hire the people who are going to work in the factory.
One of the reasons why I think we deserve an A+ from the American worker is because we're finally cutting down on the fraud that's depriving them of good wages and good jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: According to CNN polling, only 27 percent of Americans actually approve of President Trump's handling of the economy.
And as you just heard, the President, the Vice President, a lot of senior White House officials have been explaining those numbers by pointing to the past, claiming that economic problems were inherited from President Biden, who of course left office over 600 days ago.
Here's what the numbers say.
The inflation rate on President Biden's final day in office, in January 2025, was 3 percent. 21 months into President Trump's term, the most recent government data shows that it has since increased to 3.4 percent.
At the pump, gas was a little over $3 a gallon at the end of President Biden's term. It had gone down under President Trump, but now more than seven months into the war with Iran, the average is $4.36 a gallon.
The Vice President today also echoed what President Trump said about the administration bringing in $19 trillion in new investments. But the White House's actual own website claims that those total new investments are closer to $11.2 trillion. And my colleague, CNN's resident fact-checker Daniel Dale has pointed out, it actually includes trillions of dollars in vague pledges or statements that don't really have firm commitments.
My political insiders are here now.
And Jeff Zeleny, obviously you've been out traveling ahead of the midterm elections, talking to voters, talking to these candidates. I think the real question is: as reporters, we're so used to hearing that answer from the administration; they inherited it from Biden. The question is: Do voters buy that answer?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I will tell you, one place you don't hear that answer is in Republican running for the House and Senate on the debate stage. They are not blaming on Joe Biden because they know it's not selling.
But I was with President Trump, at a rally, in Nebraska, on Monday, evening. And one of the quietest applause line, ted applause, was when he was blaming things on Biden. There literally was very little reaction in the room.
And when I was talking to so many voters that day, as we do all the time. Literally no one else at this point, or very few people are blaming this on President Biden. I mean, it worked last year to a point. But this year, particularly because of the Iran war, it's a changed thing dramatically.
But our new poll today showed that three-fourths of voters in Iowa and Ohio blame President Trump's policies for costs going up. We don't see three quarters of agreement on virtually anything. So, I think that this argument here in Washington, the President's making, just simply does not wash, out in America.
[21:50:00]
K. COLLINS: Yes, and I mean I think that's the real problem for the administration is when they're actually dealing with that, how they confront that, do they develop a new message. Because they're saying A+. If you're running in a tight race, you're not really able to sell that to voters.
ISAAC ARNSDORF, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, it's fitting that they're making the comparison to Biden in this sense because they're handling it exactly the way that Biden did, by saying, It's really not as bad. If you look at the numbers, it's not as bad as what you're feeling, and actually, Democrats aren't selling my agenda enough. They need to be out there persuading people that it's better than they think it is.
And it's interesting to hear Trump taking that same line, that he's giving themselves an A+ on governing, and he says the problem is communicating. I mean, marketing and sales are supposed to be his whole thing.
K. COLLINS: Yes, the President has been saying, the only issue is not the economy, it's not the numbers, it's the bad PR, and basically he's the only one who can go out there and sell it.
He seems convinced, Jeff, that these rallies are going to change voters' minds. Do you get that sense? I mean, obviously, the rallies are the diehards of the diehards. But what was your sense in Nebraska?
ZELENY: Look, I mean, there's no doubt that people are very happy to see him who go to the rally. I mean, you invest hours and hours of your day. People are happy to see him, of his loyal base. But it's an open question how helpful this is if it's A, firing up independents and the Democratic base.
But I have no doubt that in some small degree it may help in the red states. That's why we have to point out, at the final stages of this race, it's being effectively run on the red state map. So, it would be surprising if he didn't help at all.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
ZELENY: Texas is one place I think his repeated visits there. If he cannot pull Ken Paxton over the finish line there with all his visits, then it won't work anywhere.
K. COLLINS: Yes, even though he wasn't really talking about Ken Paxton that much.
ZELENY: But he's reminding people of an election, I think.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
ZELENY: And he's trying to remind people that, Do it for me, for the Gipper, if you will. K. COLLINS: The other thing that the Vice President got asked about today, which was quite a moment, is The Wall Street Journal report last night that came out. Kimberly Guilfoyle was trying to solicit a donor for $100,000 to pay off her Amex bill quietly before she got confirmed as the Ambassador to Greece.
Rubio and Vance were both asked about this story, and this is what they said to reporters today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you have any reaction to a U.S. government official, in this case, the U.S. ambassador, asking someone to pay off debt in exchange to access to other government officials?
VANCE: Well, so, with that hypothetical, Jen (ph), obviously I don't love that, but I -- you know, I don't know exactly who you're talking about. I don't know the full details.
REPORTER: Sir, is there anything new on the reporting from The Wall Street Journal that Ambassador Guilfoyle had sought financial--
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, guys, let me tell you something, OK? You guys are going to ask me this. You're going to ask me again in Portugal. I know the game, OK?
I'm not going to comment on a story that literally posted a few hours ago. I get the game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: I mean, what did you make of those answers? Vance's face alone kind of showed how uncomfortable he was with this story, I thought, as someone who was in the room today.
ARNSDORF: Yes, I mean, I don't really expect this to show up in a lot of attack ads out in the congressional races. I'm not sure that this is that -- you know, Kimberly Guilfoyle is not engaged to Don Jr. anymore. I'm not sure that this is the scandal that's going to bring down the State Department or the White House. But it does play into a campaign theme that we are hearing, which is corruption.
The Democrats are really emphasizing the enrichment by Trump and his family of the presidency, and connecting that to individual candidates doing things like trading stocks while in Congress.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
I mean, Jeff, you've covered Washington. You've covered the White House. What do you think the reaction would be, in a different world, to an ambassador of such a caliber and position, soliciting this money and also making very clear she didn't want it to be known?
ZELENY: It would be unfathomable. I mean, but now it's just one in a string of things. But to Isaac's point, the corruption argument is one thing that I do hear voters talking about, the grift and things. I can't imagine this in any other administration not having congressional hearings, other things. You can recall an ambassador. I mean, she was confirmed by the Senate. I mean, there are methods for oversight here. We're not going to hear any of that. But it's just one more thing I think in the litany of examples that we heard.
But a $100,000 for a month? I mean, imagine what that paid for.
K. COLLINS: Jeff Zeleny--
ZELENY: A lot of good shopping, maybe. Who knows?
K. COLLINS: Jeff Zeleny. Isaac Arnsdorf. Great to have you both here tonight with your reporting. Thank you so much.
Up next. It is time for Source Code. Tonight, it is 67. I'll be right back with the story.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 67. That's because that's how many counties, across Florida and Alabama, have declared a state of emergency this evening, as they're bracing for the hurricane to make landfall on Saturday morning.
The Category 2 storm is churning out 100 mile per hour winds right now, and forecasters say the storm is only gathering strength as it heads towards the northern Gulf Coast, and it could bring up to seven feet of storm surge and potentially 15 inches of rain. Tornadoes could also pop up with little notice, as people who live in the state and in the area know.
Right now, this is the first hurricane of the Atlantic season. Evacuations have been underway for several areas along the coast. Georgia's governor Brian Kemp says he is prepared to mobilize up to 500 members of the National Guard if needed.
You can stay with CNN for the latest on this hurricane. And for live updates and alerts, download the CNN Weather App.
[22:00:00]
You can stream THE SOURCE live or watch it on demand anytime with an All Access subscription. Scan the QR code on your screen or go to CNN.com/Watch to learn more.
Thank you so much for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
