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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump's Russia Diesel Deal Draws Bipartisan Criticism; Trump Says Rep. Omar Is "Totally Crooked" But Search Of Her Home "Has Nothing To Do With Me"; Trump "Not Happy" With Amb. Guilfoyle, Considering Firing Her. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 12, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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That is all for us tonight. Thank you so much for watching. I'm John Berman. I'm going to see you tomorrow morning at 07:00 a.m. Eastern for "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" alongside Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner.
Again, the news continues now. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" takes off.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Tonight. President Trump is back in Ohio for the second time in 10 days, as Republicans are finding themselves on defense in the final stretch before the midterms.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
And with 22 days to go until the midterm elections, President Trump's campaign blitz is taking him to Youngstown, Ohio tonight, a state that the President won three times, but is where Republicans are nervous about races up and down the ballot, including for governor, where the Republican candidate, Vivek Ramaswamy, is in a toss-up, and also in the Senate, where the President's backed candidate, Republican Jon Husted, is trailing the former Democratic senator Sherrod Brown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have to get Vivek, and we have to get Jon.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Got to get them in, and I think they will. I think they're going to be a good chance.
But I'm standing over here, and -- I don't do this with men very often. I started examining his body because I didn't know he was a great athlete. And I looked and I watched up and down. I looked at his ass and I looked at the whole--
(LAUGHTER) TRUMP: And then I looked at his hands. Look at his hands. He's got these like claws. And I got it. You are a great athlete.
So, I'm asking everybody to pretend, just pretend that I'm on the ballot because, in a way I am on the ballot.
But remember, your prices, your gas prices, are lower than when Biden was president, and he didn't do anything about Iran.
Every time I'll go out -- you know, we're bringing prices way down, but every time I go out, the fake news goes, affordability, meaning like I'm causing high prices. No, I'm bringing the high prices down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: According to the latest CNN polling, 76 percent of likely voters in Ohio now say that they believe the President's policies have made things more expensive for them. And where, just last month, diesel also hit its highest average price ever recorded. Now that's what's prompted the state's current Republican governor to take emergency action by suspending the diesel gas tax in Ohio until January.
And in a sign of how much he seems to realize this could be a political liability, President Trump now says his plan for relief involves buying diesel from Russia, even though experts seem to argue it won't make much of a difference, and even as the President just signed into law a piece of legislation that would sanction countries that do exactly what Trump is proposing, buying Russian oil.
As a political gambit, the move seems to have backfired, and in fact, it's pretty hard to find a Republican who isn't criticizing this deal as unjust and unwise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What's your response to Republican criticism of your diesel deal with Russia?
TRUMP: Well, I think these are Republicans that can't really be serious.
It's not really a deal with me. It's a deal for the rest of the world. So, anything that could help our farmers, our ranchers, I like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: If the deal goes forward, the President says the United States would buy 500,000 tons of Russian diesel next month. That's about one day's demand in this country.
And it comes, as a bipartisan group of U.S. senators pointed out today that in addition to that new sanctions law that the President just signed and that Congress just passed, there's also that 2022 law that makes it illegal to sell Russian oil in the United States. The President's search for something other than the war with Iran to blame for high diesel prices has prompted him to launch a fresh round of criticism, not for Iran but for Ukraine's leader, President Zelenskyy.
As experts have argued that the Iran war is the major reason that people are paying more for fuel these days. But right now, the President is making the argument that Ukraine needs to stop attacking Russian oil refineries, as Russia just today was continuing its strikes on Ukraine's energy sites.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Russia already violated the ceasefire and attacked Ukraine last night. Do you have any reaction--
TRUMP: Well, I'm not -- I'm not sure about that, and we'll take a look. But all I know is that Zelenskyy and Putin have to get together and end that ridiculous war.
I think they're going to make a deal. I think actually Putin wants to make a deal more than Zelenskyy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, of course, the President arguing there that Putin wants to make a deal more than Zelenskyy does, isn't really backed up by Putin's actions.
[21:05:00]
But it comes as the President's major economic message, his main one, continues to be that he will give Americans free money only though if Republicans keep control of Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm going to give all adult citizens in the United States of America $5,000. If the Republicans win, you will each have $5,000 in your pocket and economic success for our country like we have never ever seen before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Sources say that after months of pressing him to ramp up his campaign schedule, some Republicans now worry that the President has grown so unpopular that his presence on the campaign trail might, in some cases, be doing more harm than good. One House Republican who is running for re-election, unnamed of course, told CNN this. Trump is dragging the party down.
But the President says rallies, like the one he's holding tonight in Ohio, are actually helping his party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I think the rallies have had a massive impact. You see the numbers go up every time I have a rally. I think the rallies are having a tremendously positive, positive impact and effect on the Republicans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And as Election Day gets closer and closer, also in the President's mind of late is what he says the story will be if Republicans lose their majorities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If we don't win the midterms, they're going to blame me. You know that.
If we do win them, I will get no credit whatsoever.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: It's true. I won't get any. But I'm working my ass off. You better get out there and vote.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: You think this is easy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And my sources tonight are:
CNN Political Commentator, and veteran Democratic strategist, Karen Finney.
Former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence, Marc Short.
And our CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Brett McGurk, whose new book "Brink: Inside the Race to Free the October 7th Hostages" is out now.
Also here tonight is CNN Political Commentator, and the former Trump White House communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin.
And as we just look at what the President's argument is tonight, Marc. I do think there is a question of where diesel prices are hitting this high price, this high benchmark in Ohio. Are voters going to buy that Ukraine is to blame for that?
MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VP MIKE PENCE: No, Kaitlan, and I think the reality, though, is that it's far worse than that in my mind. It's like you're giving a win to Vladimir Putin, who has been obviously a murderous dictator, who started this fight with Ukraine, who's killed innocents, tens of thousands, who's stolen children across the border. Vladimir Putin is losing this war. He's lost tens of thousands of soldiers. There's a lot of pressure at home. Why we're trying to give him a lifeline, I don't understand. And the reality is that, so you may potentially lower diesel price by a couple pennies, although I think it's -- there's much skepticism because the infrastructure in Russia has been so debilitated that they really couldn't even give us that? But for what, Kaitlan?
I think that -- you know, I think a lot of the President's policies have elevated costs across the heartland of America for farmers, on fertilizer, on diesel, on gasoline prices. It's the heart of America, in many cases, that has provided the men and women who are serving our country, and Russia is providing the intelligence to Iran to kill and fight American men and women.
And so, what you're basically saying to our farmers is, I'm going to lower your diesel costs, maybe by a couple pennies, in exchange for blood money to kill more Ukrainians and to give blood money to Russians who are using intel to go after American troops. This makes no sense.
COLLINS: Karen, how do you see it?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: I agree, a 100 percent.
The other thing is, it's -- what does it say to America? We are so weakened, we have to buy our diesel from Russia? I mean, again, it's blood money. It's -- I mean -- so, the whole thing is pretty disgusting.
And I think it does play into how Americans are feeling in terms of, This is not what I voted for. This man is not delivering what they thought they were going to get, and we are seeing them wanting to hold Republicans accountable at the polling -- at the polls because, they see them as not having held him accountable for what they care about.
Instead, they've let him, you know, we're building an arch. We're retrofitting -- a billion dollars to retrofit a plane from the Qataris that he may not even actually use. That's the priority over actually doing things that could lower costs, like reining in the war.
So yes, I just -- it's a terrible picture. And here we are, weeks from the election. It's not going to do enough -- fast enough for people to actually believe that it's a real shift in policy.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, Brett, there was a pretty remarkable back and forth that played out on Fox News, of Brian Kilmeade was basically arguing and criticizing what the President announced.
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, FORMER MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA COORDINATOR, NSC, AUTHOR, "BRINK": Yes.
COLLINS: This is part of what was said.
[21:10:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: President got ticked off because Zelenskyy came out and said, Do not buy 500 million tons of diesel.
Which is in violation, I thought, of the bill that they just signed, of Lindsey Graham's bill, that if you buy any energy from Russia, you're going to get sanctioned and tariffed. Are we going to tariff ourselves? So, I have no idea.
So, Zelenskyy is frustrated because now, all this money is going to flow into Russia, who started this whole war, unprovoked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCGURK: Marc connected some dots. I mean, Russia is prosecuting its war in Ukraine with the full support of Iran, going on for years, Shahed drones, and they passed the technology in factories. Without that, Russia would not be able to continue prosecuting its war.
Iran is holding on and increasing costs against us with a lot of support from Russia, intelligence and otherwise, which has been reported. And because of that, macroeconomic pressure is building.
And what Putin did here is classic. I mean, I've negotiated with the Russians. They always come in and say, I can help solve your problem. And that -- I think that's what happened. Putin said, Hey, diesel prices are high. I got diesel. Well, I'll sell you some.
And the answer should have been, You know, no. I got a lot of allies who have diesel. Canada, others. I'm kind of coordinating with our friends. But thank you very much.
So, I doubt there was kind of a study about this. If you -- look, we got a real problem with diesel prices, and if you do an analysis like the last -- the last possible option is this, I think you can kind of make the case. Well, I don't think we did that work. And just -- I mentioned Canada, we're at loggerheads with Canada, no pun intended, but they have some diesel, and it's right--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Right.
MCGURK: Right.
COLLINS: And of course, the President's going to Russia, not to Canada.
Alyssa, as someone who worked for Trump and worked in the communications office, which has obviously been dealing with this and on defense over gas prices, what do you make of the President's move doing this now and how he was arguing and defending it today?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It's truly indefensible.
And also, that statement that Ukraine needs a new leader, it needs a new president. I would remind the President that Russia has had essentially the same leaders for the last 25 years, and political dissidents and political opponents are often killed and jailed in Russia. So, they're the ones who need new leadership.
But listen, this feels like a last-ditch 11th-hour effort to bring down diesel prices. To Marc's point, I think it will barely move the needle if it does at all. But I'd go a step further in saying it's probably illegal, in light of the sanctions legislation that you mentioned in your open. A number of members of -- bipartisan members of Congress have come forward and say they're going to work to block this.
Listen, the reason we are in this position with high gas and high diesel prices is because of the wildly unpopular war in Iran right now that President Trump got us into. Instead of working to resolve that ahead of the midterms, he's cutting a deal with an adversary of the United States who's actively helping the Iranians right now.
It's a mess. There's no selling this to the American people in a way that I think is going to work. I think what the White House does need to be doing, in this final stretch, is simply talking about how they're going to refocus on affordability, how they're going to eliminate the tariffs that have driven up the cost of virtually everything, and work to resolve the war in Iran.
COLLINS: Yes, and when you listen to the President in Ohio tonight. I mean, there were a million different topics. Obviously, these rallies are typically pretty all over the place. You heard him commenting on Jon Husted's physical appearance there, at one point, Marc. When you listen to the President, does he sound like he is on the message that a Republican strategist would want a candidate to be, in these closing days?
SHORT: Kaitlan, I think that complaint's been made for 10 years against him and his rallies. And he's been pretty triumphant a few of his presidential elections. I think the rallies are more entertainment value. But I think that--
COLLINS: Well, he thinks they're helping Republicans.
SHORT: Well, look, I think reality is at this point you need the Trump voters to turn out. So, I don't discount that. I think it's probably smart.
But I think if you look at the map, Kaitlan, I think we all knew that the midterm cycle would be tough. We know it's even tougher when one party is in control of the town.
But when you see the states that are in play, in Kansas, and Ohio, and Nebraska, and Iowa, and Texas, in the heartland of America, you see the impact of his trade policy. You see it crystal clear. These are states that are double-digit victories for Trump, and now they're all in jeopardy. And I think that the reality is he's continued to prosecute a trade war that is very unpopular. And the number one issue is affordability. And it's hard to argue that his trade practices haven't increased prices.
COLLINS: Well, and I mean it's hard to know how much you can read into this. But when you even just look at the audience tonight. We have a team of reporters and photojournalists on the ground in Ohio. They show that there were roughly 400 seats there in that -- in that arena. There were some empty seats, as you can see when you look over at the top of that.
There isn't a question of if that's an indication, Karen, of course, of whether or not there's less momentum or fervor for the President, or you know, hard to know. But he is the one who's saying there are these big overflow rooms. There's--
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: Oh yes, there's thousands that can't get in here, right? I mean, he's trying to play this off as though this were the 2016 campaign again or the 2024 campaign when -- and this suggestion that there are all these people on the outside who just can't -- who are dying to get in.
[21:15:00]
Look, he -- I say, keep him out there because he is mobilizing Democratic voters. He is doing more for our base, frankly, than -- particularly given that our candidates are so dramatically outspent. I mean, the crypto industry alone is spending millions of dollars. I think they just dumped another $10 million in support of Husted in Ohio.
So, in many ways, when he is showing up, I think that it feels like they're trying to figure out where he can do the least harm and kind of keep his spirits up. But at the same time, it is having an impact on our votes.
And look, it reminds independent voters. It may not mean that Republican voters come over to vote for Democrats, but it may mean that out of frustration, they decide to stay home. And it certainly reminds independent voters, particularly in the heartland, as Marc was talking about, this guy is the reason that your prices are so high. This guy is the reason that your farm is struggling. We're also seeing this, a huge issue, frankly, in Arkansas, where we're seeing big issues with farmers there.
COLLINS: Yes.
FINNEY: I mean, we're looking at -- I mean, we're sort of having an issue on the Democratic side. I wish our donors would open their wallets and put more money in because I'm looking at places like Mississippi and Kentucky where we have really strong candidates. Where I think if we had more resources, we could actually really be in the fight a lot harder. COLLINS: And as we look at the midterm elections overall, and obviously the Iran war has had a massive impact on this, just in terms of the numbers. We'll see what it bears out with the votes.
But Brett, there was something today that stood out where The Washington Post had reported last month that the Pentagon was inaccurately counting the number of troop deaths during the Iran war. They were underreporting it.
Hegseth responded to that. The Secretary called it disgusting and fake and said it was not true; that it was a lie.
The official death count has been updated now, and it is higher than what it was. When you look at how that's being handled for something that is so sensitive, and obviously, one of the biggest impact things that a president has to deal with, I wonder what you made of how they've handled it.
MCGURK: Yes, I mean, I think the Secretary's comments there probably should have been toned down a little bit, and said, We're going to get to the bottom of this. And obviously, we need full transparency.
I've looked into this a little bit from folks I really trust, not on the political side at all. We've had 18 combat deaths, and every death is tragic, 18. And then there's been two or three more non-combat deaths.
And kind of how you report them, that's actually always an issue. There was an Iranian rocket attack in western Iraq in 2021, and a U.S. contractor died, kind of a -- heart attack is that -- is that not from shrapnel, and it could -- how that's reported? You always defer to the Pentagon on that, but there's -- that seems to be what happened here.
I think the answer from the Pentagon, and particularly the Secretary of Defense, is in the chain of command, is Look, we're going to have full transparency. Nobody's hiding anything. But it doesn't -- it doesn't look good.
But my understanding, we've had 18 combatant deaths, and then there's been these other -- there've been two or three more that were not in combat, but other means. But we got to get full transparency facts on the table. That's my understanding.
COLLINS: Yes, Alyssa, as someone who worked at the Pentagon, I wonder how you see how that played out.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes, Brett's explanation tracks and probably where the facts are.
But I think it's the response from Pete Hegseth that is problematic and what's frustrating to the American public. This is a man who has scant qualifications for the job. He was somebody who never should have been confirmed in the first place. And at every turn, he uses an opportunity to politicize the military, to try to pick fights with the media, rather than just have ample transparency. American taxpayers deserve to know what their tax dollars are paying for, who we are losing in the war, how many people we have. So, simply just having an answer. I mean, I dealt with this when I was at the Pentagon. Oftentimes, we would get initial casualty reports, and they could change over time.
All you need to say is, We're going to look into this, and we're going to have maximum transparency. But instead, it became picking a fight with the media and beating your chest. And that's Hegseth's default. I don't expect anything different at this point.
COLLINS: Alyssa Farah Griffin. Brett McGurk. Marc Short. Karen Finney. Great to have all of you here tonight. Thank you for joining us to start the show.
Up next. The home today of one of President Trump's biggest political targets was searched by federal officers. What we are learning about the investigation and how Congresswoman Ilhan Omar is responding, and Trump as well tonight.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Hours after federal officers executed a search warrant at the Washington D.C. home of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, President Trump denied having anything to do with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Sir, did you know about the search of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar's home, sir, in advance?
TRUMP: Well, I understand they're looking at her very carefully. I've always found her to be totally crooked personally, but that has nothing to do with me. I think she's a terrible person, just a complainer. She comes from a country that is a non-country, and then she comes over here and she complains about our Constitution. I think she's a terrible person, but that's really up to the DOJ. I have nothing to do with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: For years, the President has repeatedly attacked the Congresswoman over her Somali heritage and her progressive politics.
Something that she noted in her response to that search warrant today, writing, quote, I'm OK. Make no mistake: this is an attempt to target political enemies and weaponize federal law enforcement. For ten years, Trump has targeted me with baseless lies and smear campaigns. This is just the latest escalation in his campaign of political intimidation. I will not be silenced.
Now, according to one of her neighbors, federal agents were heard banging on her D.C. area home at 04:30 this morning. Investigators were later seen removing boxes from her home. [21:25:00]
And the Justice Department says tonight that investigators from the Department of Homeland Security, quote, executed a judicially authorized search warrant for a criminal investigation.
Now, while the authorities have not said what it was that prompted the search, we know that administration officials had previously indicated she was facing an investigation.
The timing of all this is notable because Congresswoman Omar is up for re-election, and as I noted, the midterms are in 22 days.
My political and legal sources are here tonight.
Alyssa Farah Griffin is back with us.
Alongside Elie Honig, who is a former state and federal prosecutor.
And Elie, when it comes to what is required to get a warrant to search the home of a congresswoman like this, can you talk to us about that?
And also, the timing of the election here and this idea of this 60-day rule, when it comes to investigations or major investigative steps that exist. Do you think that's a factor here, or that it should have been?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY, FORMER STATE & FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, Kaitlan, prosecutors cannot carry out a search warrant like this on their own. This is not a unilateral exercise of power.
Prosecutors have to go to a federal judge. I've done this many times. You have to demonstrate to the federal judge, first of all, that you have probable cause, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but probable cause that some specific federal crime was committed, and that you're likely to find evidence of that crime in the place that you're going to search.
So, federal judges usually do sign off on these search warrants, but I would not say that these are rubber stamps. Federal judges are going to look carefully, presumably, especially where you're talking about a sitting member of Congress.
Now, it has long been a rule within DOJ. This is not a law. This is just an internal practice. Goes back several decades across administrations of both parties. That you don't do something publicly, like a search warrant, if it's likely to impact an election, and you're within 60 days or so of an election.
Now, here, of course, we're well within that range. There have been exceptions and violations of that rule, most notably when Jim Comey made his comments before the 2016 election. And the reason is, you don't want to ever impact an election as a prosecutor, or even look like you're impacting an election as a prosecutor. So, I can only see two possibilities here: either DOJ has cited one of these exceptions to the rule if you think someone's about to flee or destroy evidence or commit new crimes, but I've seen no indicators of that. Or it could be this DOJ just doesn't care, and they're not going to play by that rule, and they're going to do things differently. Heaven knows they have done things quite differently from prior Democratic and Republican DOJs to begin with, so it wouldn't shock me if that's the case.
COLLINS: And Alyssa, I mentioned what the President said, as he was leaving the White House today. He denied having anything to do with this. She got brought up again, the Congresswoman, at the rally in Ohio just a few moments ago tonight.
I want you to listen to what was said and also how the crowd reacted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And that Elon -- somebody was asking me -- I don't know what they're doing with it, but I can tell you this: she's a disaster. She comes in from a country without laws, without police, without military, all they do is shoot each other. And she comes into our country, and she says, I have a constitutional right. She's got a constitutional right. She's telling us about the Constitution, and she comes from one of the worst countries anywhere on the planet.
Last week, savage Somali gang members shot two people in the high school parking lot in the middle of a football game. Just days later, a few miles away, the FBI arrested a radicalized Somalian who was planning to carry out an ISIS-styled terrorist attack at the Mall of America, aiming to kill as many as possible, in his words.
This is not what we want in this country. We don't want this. What they have done--
(CROWD chanting Deport)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: They were chanting, Deport, Deport, Deport there at the end.
Alyssa, what are your thoughts?
FARAH GRIFFIN: Well, listen, based on what we know so far, there's a lot of information we simply don't have on this raid. To Elie's point, it's perfectly possible that there is an underlying crime or underlying evidence of a crime. I can't really speak to that with the little bit of information that we have.
But, but, but it is very clear that Ilhan Omar is an animating force on the right. She's, I would say, of all the members of the squad, she's probably the one that gets the right ginned up and angry the most. And the fact that the President is talking about her and invoking her name tonight, to chants of deport, makes it seem like this is political in nature. I think that the timing is just not right. It shouldn't happen this close to an election. Voters are beginning to already receive and cast ballots. But I think we're going to have to let the facts play out on why the actual raid took place. But I mean, it really, it comes off icky, and it seems like there's a political motivation behind it because of how he's talking about her tonight and how he's previously spoken about her.
[21:30:00]
COLLINS: Elie, we've heard from officials like Tom Homan, the Border Czar, and others, who have talked about the fact that they were suggesting she was under investigation.
What do you read into that in terms of what happened today?
HONIG: Well, it's completely inappropriate to be talking publicly about someone being under investigation, especially by leading officials.
And I don't know if the President knows this or cares, but every time he makes statements, like the ones we've been seeing about Ilhan Omar or anyone else, Cassidy Hutchinson, Jim Comey, Letitia James, on down the line, he's providing ammunition to the defense. Because any time any of those people get charged, the first thing they're going to do right out of the chute is move to dismiss based on selective or vindictive prosecution.
Kilmar Abrego Garcia, people probably remember him, the man who was wrongly deported. Now he was brought back to the country. He was indicted, and a federal judge threw out that indictment based on vindictive prosecution.
Jim Comey is going to make the same motion on down the line that I just listed.
So, the President likes to do this. He has made a habit of calling, not just name calling, but calling for prosecutions of people he doesn't like. And I promise you, defense lawyers are taking note, and those statements are going to find their way into defense motions to dismiss someday.
COLLINS: And Elie, just before we go, when could we find out what this search was about today? Will it ever be revealed? I mean, how quickly do you think that could find -- that could happen?
HONIG: Well, first of all, there's always the possibility that good reporters will figure that out. But if not, in the normal criminal process, if there's no charge, we would never see the paperwork. If there is an indictment, then for sure the defense lawyers would get access to that because they'll challenge this search warrant. They'll argue that it was not legally justified. So, it could be quite a while, Kaitlan, until there's a charge, and only then would we really find out the specifics here.
COLLINS: Elie Honig. Alyssa Farah Griffin. Great to have both of you here tonight. Thank you.
Up next. The President said today he was, quote, not happy, when he was asked if he's considering firing Kimberly Guilfoyle as the U.S. Ambassador to Greece, after that striking report about her allegedly asking for money in exchange for access to top administration officials. What the President said today? After this.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, have you spoken to Ambassador Kimberly Guilfoyle, and are you considering firing her?
TRUMP: Well we're looking at it, yes. We're not happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was President Trump today, signaling that Kimberly Guilfoyle's future as the Ambassador to Greece could be on thin ice, just a few days after The Wall Street Journal reported that she had sought money in exchange for access to administration officials prior to her confirmation as the ambassador. Among the messages that were published by The Journal were pleas to a former Trump donor to wire her a $100,000 to pay off an American Express credit card bill.
Now, sources say Guilfoyle denied two administration officials last week that she sent the messages. A source tells my colleagues at CNN that the State Department's watchdog though is now investigating Kimberly Guilfoyle, amid these allegations.
The reports about Guilfoyle have irked some senior Trump officials, as allies of the President say, the entire ordeal is embarrassing.
Two of my top White House insiders are my sources tonight, including:
Semafor's Shelby Talcott.
And Bloomberg's Jeff Mason.
It's great to have both of you here.
Because I think, when -- you know, you heard the President on Friday saying that he didn't know too much about these allegations. He said, Kimberly Guilfoyle was, quote, always very nice. What did you make of his tone when he came out of the White House today, Jeff?
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG: Well, I'm sure he's not enjoying the coverage of it. And you know, the President likes bad and good coverage. But this is something that goes straight to his choices, it goes straight to his family, and it creates this dilemma for him now, in part because of that history that they have and that he has had with her, and that she has had with his family, and it doesn't look good. So, the reporting is -- the reporting is pretty clear, and it's very damaging.
COLLINS: Well, and her attorneys put out a statement today. It was very long, Shelby, that basically was saying, this was contract work. She had a contract with this former Trump donor who is publishing all these messages or giving them to The Wall Street Journal.
They said, when she was preparing to leave private life for public service, she did what any professional does and tried to close out her outstanding accounts. They said, that is the opposite of corruption to ask a client for work that was already done.
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Yes, so clearly she has her defense set up and she plans to sort of fight this in order to stay in her role, which is not surprising. I'm actually told that she's been making calls to folks around Trump world. So, she knows that she is in trouble right now. Whether or not she's spoken to Trump himself, though, I don't know.
But I think that the really interesting thing here also is timing. Because, I think that makes the decision on whether or not the President fires her a little bit more difficult. Because we are just weeks from the midterms.
On one hand, this is a distraction that certainly the President and his orbit do not want. I have spoken to several administration officials, all who are pretty livid. The Secretary of State is said to be very frustrated about this scenario. But at the same time, I think there's a calculus inside the administration of, if we fire her now, is that going to result in even more negative, sort of distracting news coverage just weeks before this very tough midterms?
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good question, I think.
MASON: It is a good question, and surely the fact that it's driving the news cycle now, at least in part, there's a lot of things driving the news cycle is, again, not something that they want.
But it's interesting, I think that we've got not just the fact that the President is thinking about this, but the State Department inquiry because, that takes it to another level. It shows that there's also officialdom that is concerned about what they're hearing and seeing.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Yes. Scott Jennings was here last week, the night that it came out, and he was saying that he believed there should be an internal investigation, at least, not just waiting, you know, for Democrats if they take control after the midterms to handle this.
Another thing that's happening at the White House is a new press secretary was named pretty abruptly. I think it surprised even some people at the White House, how quickly they named Katie Zacharia as the new press secretary. She is holding her first briefing tomorrow morning.
What are your expectations? What are you hearing from sources about this?
TALCOTT: I think it's going to be really interesting. I've heard from several people that it came as a surprise.
I was talking to somebody, just a few days before she was named, about sort of when the President was going to announce a press secretary, and this person sort of suggested that there were no names in serious contention and that it was going to be one of those scenarios where, as soon as the President decided he was going to pick, it was going to be announced, and it was going to be a surprise to people. And I think that's exactly what happened.
I think the President picked this person in particular, Katie because, she has been on TV a lot. She has, in recent months, been very vocally in support of the President's agenda, and I think that they've realized that they sort of need somebody out there at the helm, at the front of the administration, to be taking on that role again. I think this is all about the midterms.
COLLINS: Well, and KFILE did an investigation. They found some of her previous positions that she's supported and reposted. There was also one post though from December 2025, not that long ago, where she talked about how the 2026 midterms will be a bloodbath if we don't shift course now, Jeff.
MASON: Yes, and I imagine that that and some of the other tweets or posts that she made are going to be on the list of reporters' questions tomorrow when she -- when she holds her first briefing.
It is interesting that she's jumping right in to brief. At the end of her tenure, Karoline Leavitt wasn't actually briefing that often because the President keeps talking. So, I'll be curious to see how that briefing goes. But certainly, she has questions that -- she will face questions beyond just the agenda of this president, but also about her own comments and posts in the past.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's a good point. And also, taking the job at a difficult time for the administration. I mean, it's always tough speaking for any president, no matter what party it is or who's in power. But doing it a few weeks before the midterm, where the President is kind of laying out the stakes, is also really a moment.
TALCOTT: And another thing to think about is, I don't think that we can underscore how close Karoline, the former press secretary, was to the President--
MASON: Yes. Yes.
TALCOTT: --in a way that I think nobody would be able to fill. Remember, Karoline was with the President not just for the first two years of this administration, but on the campaign trail. She had known him for years. She was in virtually all of those meetings with the President.
And so, it's going to be really interesting to see how this press secretary is handled, sort of internally, and whether she has the same amount of access as Karoline did.
COLLINS: Yes, and she was also extremely close to senior officials, Susie Wiles, Marco Rubio, JD Vance.
Shelby Talcott. Jeff Mason. Great to have both of my White House insiders here tonight.
Up next. Donie O'Sullivan is going to join us. Because, there was a huge story that happened online over the weekend. You might have missed it. Conservative influencers were hyping up a theory. Turns out it was a conspiracy theory about the Texas Senate candidate, James Talarico, and it all came crashing down pretty quickly.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES TALARICO, (D) TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: I had the flu. This is the craziest thing I've ever heard. It's wild that someone can just post something on the internet and then the media just runs with it.
You know, I've heard credible reports that Ken Paxton has a serious medical condition that causes clinical levels of cowardice. It's why I haven't heard from him after 85 days when I first challenged him to a debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was a Texas-sized conspiracy that ratcheted up millions upon millions of views online, but since has crashed and burned.
The Democratic Senate candidate that you just heard from there, James Talarico, in Texas, said he left the campaign trail two weeks ago because he had a nasty case of the flu. In the nine days that he spent recovering from the flu, a baseless online rumor that he had been actually admitted to a mental hospital quickly became one of the biggest supposed political bombshells of the midterms.
Now, conservative influencers were citing sources with inside knowledge. Right-wing news sites were posting stories parroting this conspiracy. And a pair of social media personalities even shared audio of what they claimed was a call to a mental health center in Ohio as proof of all of this, with a voice that was heard saying, quote, "Looks like he was just discharged this evening. That's why I don't have it."
Now, this reached massive platforms. Elon Musk alleged a cover-up. He posted that James Talarico's campaign was hiding something. President Trump himself, who had touted the bad rumors online, even winked at the conspiracy on campaign -- on the campaign stage. So did Talarico's opponent in the race that he just named there, Ken Paxton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I hear the guy's disappeared. Nobody knows. You know where he is? He's sick because he's been forced to eat meat for political reasons, and he's throwing up all over the place.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: You know, this guy Talafreako still wears a mask, and he had the longest flu ever recorded. He was away for like almost 14 days. He was missing in action. I don't think it was the flu.
KEN PAXTON, (R) TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: Where do you think they hid that little socialist?
I'm going to do one, two, three, and then you say, Where is James Talarico? All right? You got it? OK. One, two, three. Where is James Talarico?
CROWD: Where is James Talarico?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: But as quickly as this false story was spun, it seemed to come unraveled. Out walked James Talarico on Saturday. He was seen at the Kacey Musgraves concert in Dallas. He shared also that he's never even been to the State of Ohio.
And the Ohio mental health facility that the right-wing influencers said they called, where they got that audio, confirmed he has never been there and never received treatment from there.
The Bulwark and other outlets also obtained the full phone call where the influencers made to the facility, and they left out the part where the employee apparently denies any record of James Talarico actually being there.
A CNN review finds that several right-wing users have now deleted their posts about this.
Our resident conspiracy theory expert is here tonight. Donie O'Sullivan.
Donie, I do think -- I mean, no one is surprised by how quickly this stuff spreads. But I think leading up to it, and just seeing how it kind of shot up this weekend and then fell apart was even pretty remarkable.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, and you mentioned it there. I mean, I think the real rocket fuel to this is when you have the President of the United States mentioning this multiple times, both out at rallies, but also on his social media platforms. And then, of course the really important role of Elon Musk.
And I think one of the great unknowns in our very online political era right now, is just how much Musk is manipulating the algorithm on X to push certain stories and narratives.
I mean, you had Alex Gibney, the documentary maker, on air last week. He has a documentary out right now about Musk, where they recount a story when, in 2023, a few months after Musk took over X, he was at the Super Bowl. He posted a tweet in support of the Philadelphia Eagles. So did President Biden. Musk was annoyed that Biden's tweet was getting more engagement than his, and he flew back to San Francisco to get his engineers at X to artificially boost his content. So, that's the sort of guy and personality we're dealing with, who is running one of the world's most powerful social media platforms.
And for people who are not on X, who are not on Twitter, so much of the internet, so much of the culture, flows downstream from that platform. Things that go viral on that platform show up on TikTok, they show up on Instagram, they show up everywhere.
COLLINS: Yes, but when it comes to something like this, where -- I mean, James Talarico was actually sick and off the campaign trail.
The New York Times even went as far as to review time-stamped images from a security camera, at his home, that were provided to The New York Times by his campaign, on the condition they'd not be published for security reasons. But they show him at home between October 1st and October 8th.
I mean, that is the length that they had to go to, to say he wasn't in Ohio, getting treatment at a mental health facility. He was literally at home, recovering from the flu.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. And look, in terms of the influencers who are pushing this thing. I mean, the facts are not important here. This is about clicks. It's about engagement. It's about outrage. It's about pushing a particular talking point.
But I think what is so striking, really, is that many people who because, we live in these social media echo chambers now, many people will never see that corrective information, right? I mean, I even run into this sometimes out on the campaign trail. A couple of weeks ago, I was in Kentucky, speaking to Trump supporters who are against the building of AI data centers.
And when I asked some of them, you know, had they seen that Trump had said that people who are against these AI data centers would be backward and poor, they hadn't seen or heard that because they're not seeing this sort of anything negative on their social media feeds or in the podcasters or the news networks or the talk networks that they are watching.
So, so many people are not going to see any of the facts in this case. And in terms of what they understand is that Talarico was in a hospital for the past couple of weeks. And obviously, you can see how this leads up to a very messy environment as we go into the midterms.
COLLINS: Yes. It also just shows how quickly something like that can spread.
Donie O'Sullivan, as always, it's great to have you here on THE SOURCE.
O'SULLIVAN: Thank you.
COLLINS: And for everyone who did not get enough of Donie tonight, you can watch his full hour, "MAGA Ever After?" It's going to be on "The Whole Story With Anderson Cooper," and it airs this Saturday, 08:00 p.m. Eastern. It's also available to stream the next day. You don't want to miss that.
Up next. It is time for Source Code. Tonight, our Source Code is 25,000. Can you figure out what it is? We'll be right back with the story.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 25,000. That's because that's how much money a Republican group spent on a political ad meant to boost Maine Senator Susan Collins in Portland.
But it didn't air in Portland, Maine, which is the most populous city in that state. It aired in Portland, Oregon, where Senator Collins is not serving or running for re-election. It's a pricey mix-up, and it meant that voters in Oregon saw this ad, for several days, with a sign-off that read, Maine Can't Afford Taxin' Troy Jackson, the Democrat who's running against Susan Collins in Maine.
It was a mistake that did not go unnoticed. Some people started making fun of it online. And the Republican group that is known as Defending Main Street blamed a media vendor for mixing up the cities and said, The error was identified, the ads were immediately stopped and corrected, and the vendor is refunding the full amount of the misplaced spend. No donor funds will be lost as a result of the vendor's error.
Of course, this is in one of the most closely-watched Senate races that could determine which party controls the Senate next year. Susan Collins and Troy Jackson will face off in their third debate tomorrow, yes, in Maine.
[22:00:00]
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