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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Tells Ramaswamy Not To Remove Controversial Ad; Sources: DOJ Probing Corey Lewandowski Over Alleged Contract Misconduct At DHS; Trump Says Elon Musk Restored Ukraine's Starlink Access. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 22, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTOPHER SCIORTINO, JEAN SIPPY'S GRANDSON: --and that the world just kept on going. I called her number many times since she's passed, and it's been disconnected, and I think that's why I'm leaving this. I miss her terribly, and I just need someone else to know that it happened, that I was there, and that I will never be the same.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: You can join us, All There Is Live, 15 minutes from now. CNN.com/AllThereIs.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. Not only is President Trump defending the ad that Republicans are calling, quote, deeply troubling. He also says they should keep running it.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
And as we come on the air tonight, President Trump is in Iowa, campaigning, with the midterm elections, now just 12 days away.
But the center of the political universe tonight really is in Ohio, where the state's top Republican has joined that growing chorus, of lawmakers and politicians, a lot of them Republicans, who are condemning Vivek Ramaswamy's new ad, an ad featuring the estranged mother of his Democratic opponent, Amy Acton.
In fact, Ohio's Republican governor, the Republican Secretary of State, one of the state's sitting senators, Republican Jon Husted, who has been endorsed by President Trump, a former Republican governor, John Kasich, and a former Republican senator, Rob Portman, have all distanced themselves from this ad, or outright called for Vivek Ramaswamy to take it down.
It's actually kind of hard to find a prominent Republican who is defending the ad, other than Vivek Ramaswamy himself, Vice President JD Vance, and quite fervently today, President Trump. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, Amy Acton's mother has not cared for her in about 50 years, after her stepdad was indicted for raping her. Why should anyone listen to what the mother has to say?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I know nothing about it. All I know is the mother said very bad things about Acton, who I guess is running for governor against Vivek. And all I can say is Vivek is great.
And I know one thing: if my mother said bad about me, it would be a major news story, that's for sure.
So, I don't know what it is, but I guess, the mother said very bad things about the one who's running for governor, and I think you have to take that seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President feigned ignorance.
But just yesterday, my colleague, Karen Travers of ABC News, told the President that Amy Acton says her stepfather sexually abused her, and yet her mother remained with him until he died.
Facts that prompted this question for the President today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Is there anything in a campaign ad that should be off limits?
TRUMP: I know one thing: if my mother said that about me, it would be -- you would have hit gold. You would have been very happy about it. So, I know nothing about it other than the mother said horrible things about a person that's running for governor of a great state, right? A great state. And if it's even a little bit true, you don't want her as governor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, of course, we've certainly covered what the family members of politicians and hoping-to-be-politicians have said before. The key difference here is what's at the heart of this story: Amy Acton's allegation that she was sexually abused as a child, whose stepfather was indicted and was charged.
Even the Republican candidate that the President is rallying with tonight in Iowa disagrees with his view of this ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: You're campaigning with Ashley Hinson tonight in Iowa. She said that the Ramaswamy ad is absolutely terrible and it should be taken down. TRUMP: Well that's her opinion.
REPORTER: Why are you defending it?
TRUMP: That's her opinion. I'm defending it because I know that if that ad were about my mother, you would love it. You would love every inch of it. And what's happened is the press has teamed up because he's a Republican, and they tried to make it like it's a horrible thing. This is a mother saying very bad things about her daughter, and I don't know why that should be shielded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The horrible thing that the press has been covering is that, first off, something that the Ramaswamy campaign has made an issue here and has brought to the forefront. It is that Acton's stepfather was indicted for raping her when she was 12-years-old. It's her opponent's campaign that is airing that ad with her estranged mother calling her a liar.
And so today, as the President was taking questions from reporters on his way to Iowa, I followed up with him on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Mr. President. Why didn't you make no mention of the sexual abuse allegations that Amy Acton made against her stepfather, who stayed married to her mother?
[21:05:00]
TRUMP: Well, I have no idea. I don't know the mother. I don't know her. I've never heard of her until just recently, as somebody running for governor of Ohio.
I can tell you this: If my mother ever made those statements -- I have a mother -- I had a mother who's up there right now, looking down. Mary MacLeod Trump. If she ever made statements like that about me, you and your fake station would have it front row center. You'd love it.
What's happened is the press has ganged up on a woman making a horrible statement about her daughter, and I don't know why she should be shielded or the daughter.
COLLINS: She accused her stepfather of child rape, Mr. President.
TRUMP: The mother made a horrible statement about the daughter. Said she was a dirty liar. She said she was a lot of different things. And I don't know why you're not allowed to say that. Gee, I know one thing. If my mother, who loved me, made those statements--
COLLINS: But the child rape allegation is different--
TRUMP: --you'd be the first one to be broadcasting, and you would have found nothing wrong with them. Amy Acton's mother said horrible things about Amy Acton, and I don't know why you're not allowed to do that, you're not allowed to broadcast it.
Now I'll say this: the press is ganged up because you hate it because that one ad should really win. Look, if what the mother said about the daughter is half-right, she has no right even running for the governor of Ohio.
COLLINS: What about what the daughter said about her mother? What about what the daughter--
TRUMP: I don't know what the daughter said. I don't know.
COLLINS: She said her -- her stepfather -- her mother remained married to her stepfather, who sexually abused her when she was 12-years-old.
TRUMP: But when did she make that statement? Was she--
COLLINS: Years ago.
REPORTER: In the 1970s, sir.
COLLINS: Years ago. They charged -- he was charged, Mr. President.
TRUMP: You know, I have no idea. All I know is Amy Acton's mother said horrible things about Amy Acton, calling her a liar and other things and unreliable. A lot of very bad things, and I say that she's fair game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President says there, Amy Acton and these allegations that she has made, and her relationship with her estranged mother, is fair game.
Again, it is hard to find a prominent Republican other than the ones that you just heard from, the President, the Vice President, or the candidate who's running this ad, defending it as fair game.
I pressed the President about it because, shortly before he took questions from us, he posted a lengthy message, and where I said he fervently defended the ad, he also criticized the people in his party who are trashing this ad and saying it doesn't belong on the airwaves.
The President wrote, Our RINO Governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine, who I unfortunately helped get elected years ago, when he was losing by 16 points prior to my doing a Rally for him was, as usual, disloyal to the Republican Party. He strongly suggested that Vivek should, "take down the Ad." He probably wants a Dumocrat to win -- the President said -- and certainly doesn't want someone who will do a much better job than he is capable of doing. I suggested, on the other hand, that Vivek should keep it up, and let everyone listen to the mother of a defective, dishonest, and incapable Candidate, explain how the daughter is a DISASTER who, uncontrollably, lies, cheats, and steals. I only wish the mothers of my opponents would be so brave as to come forward and explain that their son or daughter is a liar, and much worse.
Those were the President's words about why he thinks this ad should stay up, and that he wishes the parents of his political opponents would also come out.
A few moments ago, he's on the stage, again, in Iowa, campaigning for candidates in Iowa, but he brought up Ohio and this ad unprompted, and told the crowd about a phone call that he had with Vivek Ramaswamy about this ad and the backlash it was facing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When I first saw it, I said, Wow, that means Vivek easily will win the race. And then I got a call from Vivek. He said, What would you recommend? Because I'm getting killed in the press.
Why?
He said, Because they think I should immediately take the ad off.
You got to ride with it. You mean you have a mother that said terrible things about -- well, who knows the daughter but -- she really said she was a horrible liar. I mean, it was crazy.
And he made a commercial. He put it up. You know, like I would do.
So, I told him, leave it up, and look upstairs and say thank you, God, very much. I appreciate it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources are here tonight.
CNN Political Commentator, Karen Finney.
Republican strategist, Doug Heye.
And our Senior Political Commentator here at CNN, Scott Jennings.
Scott, do you believe this was ordained by God, this political strategy, as the President alluded to there at the end?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, FORMER SPECIAL ASST. TO PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: No, I don't. And look, the moral case against this has been made by many. I don't know that I need to rehash it.
I would just simply say that the political case is also very strong against this. I mean, it's a very close race. I've talked to a lot of Republicans in Ohio who think, over the last two weeks, things have actually been moving in the right direction, that Republicans are tracking the right way.
[21:10:00]
And when you launch something like this that's so incendiary and has the capacity to, and probably will blow up in your face, it's extremely risky political strategy. Take the morals out of it, take the subject matter out of it, for just a minute, and I look at it as just a risk that is highly likely to fail when you consider all the stories and all the press that the President actually mentioned -- that Vivek mentioned to him on the phone.
So, I think for a lot of reasons it was bad strategy. Now, whether you should pull it down and back down from it, does that make it worse? These are all questions the campaign would have to debate. But I would never have put this up in the first place because I'm not sure it's actually going to help him win.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean--
JENNINGS: And of course, the case against using it is very strong.
COLLINS: If it's bad strategy by the candidate, Scott, do you also think it's bad strategy by the President to come out there and so strongly defend it like he did today?
JENNINGS: Well, the President is defending a fellow Republican and someone that he has had some relationship with. And Vivek worked for at least for a bit of a time, I think, on the transition. So, you know, they have a relationship.
And look, the President has always defended Republicans against what he considers to be being ganged up on in the press. So, I'm not surprised to see him defending it.
I'm also not surprised to see Republicans who've won statewide campaigns in Ohio say what they're saying. Because they recognize it for what it is, something that's highly likely to make it harder for the Republican to win. They're very uncomfortable with it.
Now look, there are different strains of Republicans there. Rob Portman and John Kasich and Governor DeWine are different kinds of people--
COLLINS: Yes.
JENNINGS: --than Vivek Ramaswamy and others, and they come from a different era, and I get that. But they do know something about winning elections in Ohio, and obviously all of their instincts are this is -- this is not something that puts them on that track.
COLLINS: I mean, Doug and Karen, the President today was saying the press is ganging up on Vivek Ramaswamy about this.
Nobody would be talking about this had Vivek Ramaswamy not put that ad out.
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, RNC: No, and I look at this also very similar to Scott. I was going -- in a campaign operational way. Take the morals aside, and that's a hard thing to do, I get, but this was a proactive mistake by Team Vivek. They really screwed up here. And the smart thing to do: apologize, get over with it, and make sure we're not talking about this day after day by standing behind it and having Donald Trump come and stand behind it, and JD Vance and whomever else.
This is keeping this going on much longer. And the reality is, there's no joy in Team Vivek right now. You have staffers who are looking at each other distrustfully. They want to get rid of whoever put the ad together. The staff is going to have internal conversations and squabbles and clicks, and these things that are normal with campaigns are going to be on overdrive because of this.
And because of Trump doubling and tripling down. He's now doing it in Iowa, where, by the way, Ashley Hinson has called for the ad to be taken down as well. It may be the case that Donald Trump is putting the last nail in Vivek's campaign.
COLLINS: My colleague, Kevin Liptak, says the President viewed Republicans criticizing it as weak.
And obviously, there was that phone call between the President and Vivek. I mean, clearly, Vivek Ramaswamy called him and asked him what to do here, if he should take it down, and it was the President who said no.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: Yes, that was bad advice.
Look, two things.
Number one, Donald Trump and JD Vance are part of an administration that is protecting pedophiles who are in the Epstein files. So, of course, they're not going to have the moral fortitude to say, Hey, maybe that's not a good ad.
The second thing I would say that I want us to acknowledge is the way that Amy Acton has handled this. I mean, God bless her. She has stepped up. She has answered every question. It is all out there. She has been very forthright. She has been very transparent. I think, in part, understanding there are children right now in Ohio who might be afraid to come forward because of the way this is being -- they're being -- she's being called a liar for telling the truth.
And remember, it's not just her. Two things we learned today -- or yesterday and today. Her brother has talked about how, She got it worse than me. They both were abused and assaulted. He said, She got it worse than me because she protected me.
And then secondly, we learned earlier today. Jake had a segment on where apparently this further -- the stepfather had been previously married to someone whose daughter had accused him of raping her. So, I mean, again, the evidence is piling up.
Not only is this terrible judgment, but this comes down to a question of leadership for the voters of Ohio. And I agree with Doug. I think, it means that for the next 12 days, this is what candidates in Ohio get to talk about. They're not going to talk about prices. They're not going to talk about policy. They're not going to talk about how -- I mean, even at Amy's events, you have people saying, I just want to give you a hug because, they feel so badly for what they are seeing happen, and yet she's standing strong.
HEYE: And so, if you're organizing, say, walk lists right now in Columbus for this weekend to go door knocking and so forth. Your job, if you're on Team Vivek, just got that much harder because of Vivek not doing his basic homework, and Donald Trump standing by this terrible ad. Your job just got a lot harder on the ground.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: Yes, and Scott, I mentioned what the -- the governor coming out against this. I just -- I mean, he -- the fact that he made a concerted effort to go to the cameras and deliver -- this is the statement that he -- he -- the sentiment he offered about this ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): The ad, on its face, is deeply, deeply troubling. I would just urge the Ramaswamy campaign to take this down. It's just -- it's just -- it's just wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, Scott, that moment reminded me -- it's a different thing. But when Roy Moore was running for the Senate in Alabama against Doug Jones, and Richard Shelby came out on the Sunday shows, right before the election, and basically said he wasn't going to be voting for the Republican on the ticket. I mean, to hear Mike DeWine come out and do that, what did you read into that?
JENNINGS: Well, Governor DeWine, obviously been elected many times in Ohio, he has been somewhat estranged from the Ramaswamy, Vance, you know, Trump wing of the Republican Party. That's no real secret.
But what I make of it is, there are going to be a lot of people in Ohio who agree with DeWine. Some of them are going to be Republicans, and when you have a race that that's -- is that close, you got to have them all.
And in addition to the strategic sort of debate about whether this was a good idea to put it up or not. OK, well, there's going to be some people that don't agree with it and they're strongly troubled by it. You can't go out and attack them because you still need them to vote for you.
And I've -- you know, I've heard some people today, attacking Republicans who have squeamishness about this. Well, do you not want their votes? He needs every vote. It's a close race. I mean, let's just say it's a toss-up, tied race, however, you want to describe it. You don't want to drive away base Republican votes because they have a difference of opinion with you about a piece of campaign strategy late in the campaign. They're obviously not going to take it down. OK, fine. Move forward. But you can't go out and insult the supporters that you do have overnight -- which I thought was just sort of a secondary mistake of the whole thing.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point in terms of how people feel about this.
And early voting is underway in a lot of the country right now, Karen--
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: --and especially in Ohio.
FINNEY: Yes.
COLLINS: And my colleague, Lauren Fox, has been talking to voters there about this ad specifically, how did they feel about it. And this is what one of them had to say to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Can you just talk about, like, what your reaction was when you first saw that ad?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like why, why? And I don't know what his angle was. Like, did -- who -- is that speaking to anyone? Is like that resonating with anyone? I mean, that's horrific, what happened to her. And yes, I don't see the positive angle on it.
FOX: Were you familiar with her backstory before that ad came out?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. No. No. So, it just makes me support her even more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINNEY: And that's exactly what I mean by the leadership test. I mean, again, in moments -- you know, when things like this happen in a campaign, how you handle it tells voters a lot about how you're going to handle crises if they come up when you're in office.
And I think the voters of Ohio have seen Vivek Ramaswamy is going to platform a woman who may have participated in -- certainly participated in the cruelty towards her daughter, if not abuse, which is what her brother had alleged, was that she was part of it.
Not to mention, that's the kind of conversation that people are now having, probably around kitchen tables, when they're meeting up with friends, saying, Did you hear about this? Did you see this? So, it's not surprising.
I do want to point out though, Governor DeWine, in those remarks, he did say he's still going to vote for Ramaswamy. So, he kind of was trying to have it both ways there of like, you know, how terrible it was, but I'm still voting for the guy. That's not exactly profiles in courage.
HEYE: Karen. Doug. Scott. Great to have all of you here tonight. Thank you for joining us to weigh in with your views of this wild story that's been playing out.
Up next. We're covering another story here in Washington, where an iconic piece of history was damaged after the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said he wanted it in his office. One of the reporters who broke that story is here, and will join me right after this.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: All I know is I want my people to be honest. And if they're not going to be honest, they have to be prosecuted. I don't know about specifically, but -- because I view, if people are not honest, they're stealing from me as president. They're stealing from me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was President Trump today, when he was asked about CNN and other outlets reporting that the Justice Department is now investigating the guy who ran his 2016 campaign. The Republican operative, Corey Lewandowski.
Our sources from the team here at CNN are reporting that prosecutors are probing Lewandowski over allegations of misconduct related to contracts during his time at the Department of Homeland Security, when he was essentially serving as the de facto chief of staff to then- Secretary Kristi Noem. Now, this investigation follows a criminal referral from the department's government watchdog.
Corey Lewandowski tonight is denying any wrongdoing through his attorney and says he hasn't been contacted by the Justice Department.
But the President's answer surprised us, as we asked about him -- asked him about it repeatedly today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want my people to be honest, and if they're not honest, I'll have my DOJ go and do whatever they have to do.
REPORTER: Sounds like you're OK with that investigation then?
TRUMP: Well, I guess I can stop anything. Look, if my people are not -- I have no idea what he did. I have just heard about it. I want the people that work for this administration to be 100 percent honest.
COLLINS: It sounds like you're talking about him specifically when you're talking about people stealing.
TRUMP: I would say this. If somebody is dishonest, I consider them not only against the country; I consider that dishonest against me. So, I will never--
COLLINS: You think--
TRUMP: --I will never do anything to stop a prosecution if somebody is dishonest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: My White House insiders are here tonight.
Dan Lamothe of The Washington Post.
And Zolan Kanno-Youngs of The New York Times.
I mean, that response today, we all kind of stopped and were like, Wow. Because, typically, the President would say, Oh, I'm not -- I don't know anything about that or whatever.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Right.
COLLINS: But the fact that he took a moment to say, If people are stealing, I basically view it as they're stealing from me if they're being dishonest.
KANNO-YOUNGS: It's notable, right? And it says something that's notable about Trump 2.0.
Up until now, for the most part, we've seen the President design this administration and install loyalists, design it based off of loyalty, and with that has come, I think we can say, a lack of accountability when it comes to an official getting scrutinized, right, or calls for an investigation into an official.
This is different, and it's notable because it's also Corey Lewandowski, who, when we talk about loyalists to the President, he fits in with that. He's been there since 2016, right? This is somebody that amassed a lot of power while he was at DHS next to Noem as well, and also concern and scrutiny from some other Homeland Security officials. His power over contracting, let alone immigration policy. That concern did reach the White House as well.
But still, to your point, to see the President lean in like this and pretty much voice his concern and frustration, also, coming after Kimberly Guilfoyle, it is notable.
COLLINS: Yes, and it's so rare to see the Justice Department investigating an ally, an appointee of someone who worked for Trump.
Dan, also this reporting from you today is wild. There is this historic World War II era globe that was from -- used by President Dwight Eisenhower. It was broken, apparently, by staffers of Pete Hegseth? What happened? DAN LAMOTHE, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, so back in February, Secretary Hegseth was apparently looking for globes. Was interested in having some sort of globe moved into his office suite.
The Pentagon is basically a museum in many ways. There's all kinds of artifacts, portraits, so forth, not unlike the White House. So, they zeroed in on these Eisenhower globes. There's one in the top Army general's office, and then there's this other one that was in a different Army office.
Rather than waiting for historians, curators, somebody who has a background, training, expertise in handling rare artifacts. They sent the team on their own, handful of military personnel, three, four people, and attempted to move it, dropped it, smashed a part of it, basically impaled it.
COLLINS: Whoa.
LAMOTHE: And many months later, it's still broken,
COLLINS: And what is the Pentagon saying about this?
LAMOTHE: Mistakes happen, was the statement that was released after we published, and only after we published this morning. We kind of got radio silence, last night, as we were putting this story together.
COLLINS: So, they acknowledged it?
LAMOTHE: They acknowledged it today after publication, yes.
COLLINS: I mean, Zolan, when you just look at this.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes, there's some stories that, that sort of the symbolism is very apparent, right? And this is one of them. It was really great reporting.
And I think it's emblematic, more broadly, right, of this is an administration that doesn't go through the normal processes, that many former officials would say, are there for a reason. Usually, you might have historians go and grab one of these artifacts as well, and bring them out. It seems like they kind of sped through that, and you saw some damage as well.
COLLINS: Yes. Do you view it as symbolic of what it's like inside the Pentagon right now?
LAMOTHE: I mean, in some ways, yes. We didn't go through the typical process, which I think is -- you know, that's a sentence we've said about a lot of things in the last two years. What's the rush, I guess would be--
KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes.
LAMOTHE: --one question that we kind of have had and hasn't been resolved. And aside from some basically kind of shrugging to some degree, you know, mistakes happen, there really hasn't been much of an explanation, even now.
COLLINS: Dan Lamothe--
KANNO-YOUNGS: When you think about all the stuff that's been brought into the Oval Office, too. Right? This has been a theme in this administration. When these officials want something, even a historic artifact, they get it. They bring it to their office.
COLLINS: Very into interior design.
KANNO-YOUNGS: That's right.
COLLINS: Zolan Kanno-Youngs. Dan Lamothe. Great reporting. Thank you for joining us on that tonight.
We'll continue to follow both of those stories.
Up next. President Zelenskyy just sat down with my colleague, Christiane Amanpour, about what's going on with the White House, with President Trump. She'll join me, right after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: After days of scrutiny and conflicting accounts on who exactly was responsible for limiting Ukraine's access to that military-grade version of Starlink, President Trump himself today confirmed Elon Musk had restored it, though he didn't say who had asked him to do so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Did you call Elon Musk to bring back Starlink for Ukraine? When did you do that?
TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say. But I know it was a very interesting situation. So, I don't want to comment one way or the other. But my--
REPORTER: The Wall Street Journal is reporting that--
TRUMP: --my relationship with Elon is a very good one.
Go ahead.
REPORTER: The Wall Street Journal is reporting that you called him and asked him to bring--
TRUMP: Yes, I don't want to comment on it. Whether I called or whether somebody else called, doesn't make any difference. I guess the bottom line -- he put it back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now this comes as Ukrainian President Zelenskyy had addressed these costly Starlink restrictions, in a new interview that he did with CNN's Chief International Anchor, Christiane Amanpour.
[21:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Who do you think did it?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: I don't know. It can be -- I mean, technically, it can do -- I think SpaceX. But the -- the decision comes by themselves or from some institutions, I don't know. It does -- it's not clear for me. But technically, it can do--
AMANPOUR: OK. Is it -- OK.
ZELENSKYY: --only one company.
AMANPOUR: Is it up to speed? I don't understand. Is it up to -- is it back up to speed or not?
ZELENSKYY: No.
AMANPOUR: OK.
ZELENSKYY: We had enough speed to destroy Iranian Shaheds, 400, 500 kilometers per hour. It's -- yes, it's more than 300 miles. Now we had maximum 100 miles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And my source tonight is the CNN legend herself, our Chief International Anchor, Christiane Amanpour.
And it's great to have you here.
Because, I mean, this whole back and forth, and no one here in Washington has wanted to say they were responsible for the slowdown in Starlink for Ukraine. What else did you make of what President Zelenskyy had to say to you?
AMANPOUR: Well, look, it's hugely important this because that speed, as he said, makes the difference between intercepting one of these jet-propelled Shahed drones that Russia has started to employ with a vengeance. It makes the difference between lives saved and lives lost. And so, who did it? Why? When? How it's been restored? Is kind of beside the point.
It has to be on, if Russia is going to be deterred, or at least if Ukraine is going to be able to try to defend itself against this onslaught that has come from Russia, in a big way, especially since the summer, as they try to use these -- these months, these weeks, and this winter to break the spirit of Ukraine. That is what Russia is hoping.
And of course, President Zelenskyy is very, very upset and concerned that the United States is helping Russia, particularly with this diesel deal, Kaitlan, putting money into Russia's coffers.
COLLINS: And what did Zelenskyy have to say? I mean because, so much of this has been about the personal relationship with President Trump. I mean, the President was bringing up, this week, the showdown that they had in the Oval Office. Of course, today he was being asked about Starlink.
What did Zelenskyy have to say about his view of their relationship now?
AMANPOUR: Well, of course, we've been watching this deteriorating latest episode of the -- of the relationship, over the last week, with insults hurled back and forth. And it's truly extraordinary to watch this.
Because, you have a hot war in Europe. Not only is Russia threatening the integrity of an independent, sovereign, and free democratic state, i.e. Ukraine, having invaded it illegally, but is now really threatening and stepping up the hybrid and cyber warfare against Europe, i.e. against NATO and other U.S. allies.
So, I asked the President, I asked Zelenskyy today, What is it with this personal relationship? Are you sure this kind of back and forth, in public, is constructive?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: It's not about days. It's not about personalities. My attitude to Putin is very clear. I think that if we will lift sanctions, we will make him stronger, and that's why I'm like a president.
It's not something personal between me and President Trump. And of course I'm against of any lifting of sanctions. I always said it to European partners, and I said it directly to American administration. I'm -- of course, I know what I do. I have to strengthen me, my country, my people, my army, but not my enemy. That -- this is, I think, very clear and fair between us. That's why I know that if you give something to Putin, he will need everything. He will want everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Well, basically, there you have it. He's saying it's not about personalities; it's about being able to defend our country and to count on our friends. And you know, you give Putin an inch and he takes a mile. And that is absolutely true.
He said to me over and again, and I've interviewed him about this over and again. I've reported about it. Every time this administration, particularly President Trump, has asked for both sides to do, let's say, an unconditional ceasefire, or to freeze the lines where they are, or to stop hitting each other's energy infrastructure. It's Zelenskyy who has said yes, and Putin who doesn't say anything but keeps attacking. So, this is a very crucial moment when now the United States wants to broker trilateral talks between all sides. Because yes, everybody wants this war to end. Not sure about Putin's aims because he has not changed his maximalist demands, but certainly Zelenskyy does. Certainly, the United States does. But not at any cost. Not at any cost.
[21:40:00]
And he said, again, the territory is not negotiable. We will not give up our territory. Yes, we can cease fire. Yes, we can freeze on current lines. Yes, we must end the war, end the killing, in order to set the stage for proper negotiations--
COLLINS: Yes.
AMANPOUR: --with a proper, verifiable, and actionable security guarantees by the U.S. and others.
COLLINS: There was a moment, after the interview, where President Zelenskyy thanked you for a thoughtful conversation, and I loved that because one, it's true.
And it just -- this is our first time talking, since you announced that you're leaving CNN, next summer. And just given what you've covered and how much you've seen, and the work you've done, and the reporting you've done, I wonder how you're reflecting on that and looking at that in this moment. Because, so many of us view you as such an icon here at CNN.
AMANPOUR: Well, look, all those compliments are fantastic, and I love them. And thank you, Kaitlan.
But I think that my value added has been to be on the -- on the field, in the field, and to be reporting these things for literally ever since the first Gulf War. So, that's more than 30 years ago. So, I'm really familiar with war, with what -- you know, with invasions and with negotiations, and how, in fact, you do get to peace. And you do not get to peace by appeasing the aggressor, you just don't, no matter what you might think about it.
And I think this is really, really an important time. I think the United States has always been on the side of the democratic countries, on the side of human rights and sovereignty and freedom. And it's very important that the U.S. sticks to that because it's -- what it does is going to have massive, massive ramifications and repercussions.
And if this war is to be ended, everybody we speak to who are analysts, basically say, You have to pressure Putin because otherwise it's not going to work.
Let's see what they come up with in these trilateral talks if they happen. But many people are very, very concerned. People who've dealt with Ukraine, with Russia, and with the United States, very concerned, do not want to see this end at any cost, and know though that they want to see the end to this terrible killing and terrible slaughter-- COLLINS: Yes.
AMANPOUR: --but in a way that's sustainable, fair, and just.
And, as you've seen, maybe some of the headlines say, actually, Ukraine has been doing incredibly well on the battlefield with help and with its own unbelievable defense procurement industry--
COLLINS: Yes.
AMANPOUR: --that, frankly, they say that Putin was losing until Trump stepped in with this new diesel deal and the rest.
So, let's hope they can really make Putin decide that now is the time for him to come to the table because he's not winning.
COLLINS: Christiane Amanpour, it's always great to have you. Thank you for joining us here on THE SOURCE.
AMANPOUR: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. President Trump just removed another reporter from the White House press pool today. My source tonight is the attorney representing CNN, MS NOW, and Politico in their fight for the First Amendment.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, without warning or explanation, the White House excluded a reporter from covering President Trump's rally in Iowa, this evening, as the pool reporter.
Andrew Feinberg, who is the correspondent for The Independent was supposed to serve as the print pool reporter today, meaning he would take notes of what the President said and did and travel with him. But he says the White House abruptly pulled him from that duty, that assigned duty, hours after the President had gone off over his questions inside the Oval Office this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Listen to you. Hey--
ANDREW FEINBERG, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE INDEPENDENT: Sir.
TRUMP: I'm not pointing. You better -- you better -- I don't know who the hell you are, but you better be careful.
REPORTER: Mr. President--
FEINBERG: Mr. President, on the golf course, sir, you own a lot of golf courses.
TRUMP: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. FEINBERG: On who--
TRUMP: Quiet. Quiet. What's wrong with you? Are you a sick person?
FEINBERG: Not that I know of, sir.
REPORTER: Mr. President--
REPORTER: Mr. President, I want to--
TRUMP: You know, I think there's -- I actually think there's something wrong with you.
Go ahead.
REPORTER: Mr. President--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, Andrew Feinberg responded to being pulled from his duty today, arguing that the President cannot silence him.
And this is something that comes as the White House is still continuing its legal fight to restrict CNN, MS NOW, and Politico's access to cover President Trump, including refusing to allow CNN on Air Force One as part of its travel pool duties.
My source tonight is Ted Boutrous, who is the media attorney representing CNN, MS NOW, and Politico in their legal fight to restore their First Amendment right.
And Ted, thank you for being here tonight.
Because, you had written to the DOJ on Monday, essentially warning of further legal action if CNN's access to Air Force One, to the Oval Office, to these places that we and others are being blocked from, is not restored. There was that 05:00 p.m. deadline to respond. Did you hear back?
TED BOUTROUS, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING CNN, MS NOW AND POLITICO: They missed their deadline, Kaitlan. We've heard nothing from them. We demanded that they assure us that they are not excluding CNN from the Oval Office, or from Air Force One, and we said that if they did not assure us on that front, we would then seek other legal action, which we're going to do.
COLLINS: And so, when should we expect that?
BOUTROUS: I can't get into the details of it, but we're -- we've been gathering facts.
We feel this is more viewpoint discrimination, retaliation against CNN and others based on what they publish and broadcast and the content of their reporting. That violates the First Amendment. It violates the principles that Judge Kelly relied on, in granting the preliminary injunction, restoring the White House press credentials to CNN, Politico, and MS NOW reporters.
[21:50:00]
It's the same -- it's more of the same, and it's intolerable. It's against our great American tradition, and we're going to fight it.
COLLINS: What did you make of this latest move from the White House? I mean, clearly, the decision on Andrew Feinberg was directly tied to the questions he was asking the President, inside the Oval, that the President could have just ignored, but didn't like, obviously, and we saw how he responded there.
And then they informed Andrew Feinberg he could not service the print pooler today, which also then affects the press coverage because there was no print pooler traveling with the President right now for this trip to Iowa.
BOUTROUS: It's terrible. It's bad for the President. It's bad for the White House. It's counterproductive. It's bad for the American people because they don't get that pool coverage, which goes out to the world on behalf of everyone, when there's a pool reporter, saying when CNN is not allowed to do its traditional ordinary pool duties. That's bad for the American public.
And it's clearly viewpoint discrimination. As you point out, President Trump didn't like the question, so he boots the reporter out of the pool duties. And as you've seen, you know better than anybody, the Oval Office, Air Force One, those have become the principal areas where President Trump interacts with reporters more so than the Briefing Room. And under the First Amendment, that means that those are forums for speech activity that trigger the First Amendment and forbid this kind of viewpoint discrimination.
And if I can make one other point too. The access that they give to reporters in the White House, and the Oval Office, and Air Force One. That's a show of confidence by our President, and by the executive branch, and by the White House, that they can take it, that they can engage for the American people. And when they do this, it looks petty, it violates the First Amendment.
COLLINS: I think you make a really good point there about where the President is taking questions for the most part, these days. Because, it does look different this term than it did in his first term. Where, often there were big press conferences inside the East Room, or when a foreign leader visited, the President would hold what's known as a two and two inside the press corps. Each leader would come out and take two questions or questions from two reporters from each delegation, each press corps. And those don't really happen anymore.
I can't remember the last time the President just held a full-on press conference. Instead, he takes those questions inside the Oval, and often when he's gaggling with reporters on Air Force One.
BOUTROUS: Yes, in the letter we sent for CNN, demanding that they stop excluding CNN from its pool duties, we counted up the number of questions President Trump has answered in Air Force One or on the tarmac going to Air Force One and in the Oval Office, and it was nearly 5,000 questions since he took office in this second term. And compared to the Briefing Room, it was more like a couple 100. So, 97 percent of the questions and answers President Trump is engaged in with reporters has happened in those spaces, and that triggers First Amendment protection.
And the public; those are the public spaces. Air Force One, Oval Office, those belong to the American people, and they should be able to have reporters in there as their surrogates, questioning the President, as you've been doing.
COLLINS: Yes, and it's also the cameras and the microphones. So, when the White House argues they're trying to get their message out, that is the primary way they do it with our professionals.
Ted Boutrous, always great to have you. Thank you for joining us tonight.
BOUTROUS: Thanks so much for having me, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. It is time for Source Code. Tonight, it's just two. We'll be right back with the story.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is two, as in two weeks. That's because that's how soon construction could start on President Trump's arch here in Washington, D.C.
Today, the Trump administration told a judge, it's their intention to start building after they released those final plans for the 250-foot tall arch last week. The documents describe the President's latest project as a, quote, ceremonial gateway to Washington. That is notable because, the President has justified the multi-million dollar arch as critical to national security and a site where he says drones can be deployed and snipers can be posted.
A group of preservationists and veterans are arguing otherwise. They're actually suing to stop the project. They argue, it's unlawful unless Congress approves it, and that the Arch's observation deck would have provided a view into the Arlington National Cemetery, where military families go to mourn in private.
An Interior Department spokesperson responded and told CNN it will, quote, "Enhance the visitor experience at Arlington National Cemetery for veterans, the families of the fallen, and all Americans alike."
We'll keep you updated on that story.
Also, this Sunday, what are you doing? Because we have a two-hour special of THE SOURCE, as we are counting down to Election Night. I'm going to take you inside the midterm races that could change the balance of power here in Washington. That's going to start, this Sunday night, 08:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN. If you're streaming it live, you can do so with an All Access subscription.
You can also stream THE SOURCE live or watch it on demand anytime with one. Just scan the QR code on your screen or go to CNN.com/Watch to learn more.
[22:00:00]
Thank you so much for joining us here tonight, and we appreciate that. And we hope you have a great night.
Up next is "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP."
